WEBVTT 00:00:11.447 --> 00:00:16.147 Hello, friends, and welcome back to your weekly Linux talk show. My name is Chris. 00:00:16.307 --> 00:00:17.007 My name is Wes. 00:00:17.167 --> 00:00:17.887 And my name is Brent. 00:00:18.447 --> 00:00:24.667 Hello, gentlemen. Well, coming up on the show today, we're going to chew on a bold proposal. 00:00:24.987 --> 00:00:29.047 Should distributions stop packaging most of our desktop apps? 00:00:29.227 --> 00:00:34.387 And why Flathub might be the key to Linux's future, but perhaps its biggest risk as well. 00:00:34.687 --> 00:00:39.507 Then after that, we're going to dig into Linux 6.16, which is landing with killer 00:00:39.507 --> 00:00:44.207 file system upgrades, some retro Mac fixes, you won't believe, and more. 00:00:44.487 --> 00:00:47.227 They're going to round the show out with some great boosts, some shout-outs, 00:00:47.307 --> 00:00:48.767 some picks, and a lot more. 00:00:48.867 --> 00:00:53.047 So before we go any further, let's say time-appropriate greetings to our virtual 00:00:53.047 --> 00:00:54.167 lug. Hello, Mumble Room. 00:00:57.527 --> 00:01:00.207 Hello, hello, MiniMac. We don't hear you, but I see you. Hello there, 00:01:00.367 --> 00:01:03.347 hello there. We have a small on-air, and then we have a delicate, 00:01:03.647 --> 00:01:08.607 soft, quiet listening with a few folks up there as well. It's a quiet Sunday in the Mumble room. 00:01:08.627 --> 00:01:11.047 Yeah, but we've got producer Jeff producing from the Mumble. 00:01:11.227 --> 00:01:14.267 PJ, coming in from the mum. Pretty nice. 00:01:14.767 --> 00:01:19.347 And a big good morning to our friends at Defined Networking. 00:01:19.467 --> 00:01:24.807 Go to Defined.net slash unplugged and go check out Managed Nebula from Defined Networking. 00:01:24.867 --> 00:01:30.427 It's a decentralized VPN built on the open source Nebula platform that we love. 00:01:30.607 --> 00:01:34.707 We love it because it's optimized for speed, simplicity. It has industry-leading 00:01:34.707 --> 00:01:38.907 security, and you can completely self-host it if you like, or you can take advantage 00:01:38.907 --> 00:01:40.567 of their managed Nebula project. 00:01:40.667 --> 00:01:44.667 If you go to define.net slash unplugged, you can get it for free on 100 devices. 00:01:45.347 --> 00:01:49.527 Unlike traditional VPNs, Nebula's decentralized design keeps your network resilient, 00:01:49.527 --> 00:01:52.807 whether you're managing a home lab or a global enterprise. 00:01:52.807 --> 00:01:57.147 They built it to scale in 2017 for Slack's global infrastructure, 00:01:57.147 --> 00:02:01.207 so it had to work from the beginning to connect their vast infrastructure together. 00:02:02.007 --> 00:02:06.587 Nothing else matches Nebula's level of resilience, speed, and scalability. 00:02:06.847 --> 00:02:09.167 Try it out for yourself first. Start playing around with it. 00:02:09.887 --> 00:02:14.047 Host a lighthouse and see how that works. They utilize this really cool system for lighthouses. 00:02:14.427 --> 00:02:18.067 It's essentially a node that contains the routing information for your mesh 00:02:18.067 --> 00:02:20.047 network, and it's really easy to host yourself. 00:02:20.587 --> 00:02:24.867 The queries from your network hit these lighthouses, and then you can have multiple 00:02:24.867 --> 00:02:27.267 lighthouses as well, so you can have uninterrupted operation. 00:02:27.367 --> 00:02:30.327 So if one goes out, you have another one going, You're still going to be able 00:02:30.327 --> 00:02:31.347 to connect to all your devices. 00:02:31.887 --> 00:02:35.887 Of course, they have the managed offering as well, which handles a lot of this for you. 00:02:36.067 --> 00:02:40.207 Nothing offers Nebula's level of resilience, speed, and scalability. 00:02:40.407 --> 00:02:44.247 Go see why we're switching to Nebula and try it for free for 100 hosts. 00:02:44.427 --> 00:02:48.787 No credit card required at defined.net slash unplugged. 00:02:50.723 --> 00:02:53.123 And thank you to Define for sponsoring the Unplugged program, 00:02:53.263 --> 00:02:55.203 Define.net slash Unplugged. 00:02:56.603 --> 00:03:00.283 So this week we're going to talk about something that's kind of far out there, 00:03:00.303 --> 00:03:07.523 and it's a hot topic right now because the Fedora project is considering a proposal 00:03:07.523 --> 00:03:12.403 of how they're going to handle flat packs from FlatHub and from Fedora directly 00:03:12.403 --> 00:03:14.723 from Fedora 43 and beyond. 00:03:15.303 --> 00:03:18.763 And in the immutable desktop world or the atomic desktop world, 00:03:18.763 --> 00:03:23.843 this is very important because this is essentially how you distribute modern 00:03:23.843 --> 00:03:30.203 desktop software is through flat packs and for those of you not aware there's 00:03:30.203 --> 00:03:35.703 flat hub which is the public flat pack database and then there's fedora flat packs which. 00:03:35.703 --> 00:03:39.003 Is a flat pack repository but maintained by fedora. 00:03:39.003 --> 00:03:43.803 And currently there is a proposal titled filter fedora flat packs for atomic 00:03:43.803 --> 00:03:46.643 desktops And the summary says, quote, 00:03:47.663 --> 00:03:51.943 With this change, we want to make the availability of Fedora flatpacks an explicit 00:03:51.943 --> 00:03:54.063 decision for Fedora Atomic Desktops. 00:03:54.303 --> 00:03:58.583 Fedora contributors may package any application as a Fedora flatpack, 00:03:58.743 --> 00:04:03.203 but those flatpacks will not be made available immediately to Atomic Desktop users. 00:04:03.483 --> 00:04:07.423 Users that want to have access to all flatpacks from Fedora can remove the filter. 00:04:08.723 --> 00:04:11.643 there's a debate going on right now if fedora should even be 00:04:11.643 --> 00:04:14.783 in the business of packaging flat 00:04:14.783 --> 00:04:20.883 packs there's very little maintenance that they see very little community engagement 00:04:20.883 --> 00:04:24.823 they haven't even held some of their main meetings this is not a criticism because 00:04:24.823 --> 00:04:27.203 they're a busy project there's a lot to do but there's very little documentation 00:04:27.203 --> 00:04:31.843 how to build maintain or update fedora flat packs there's no procedure to remove 00:04:31.843 --> 00:04:33.183 deprecated fedora flat packs, 00:04:34.638 --> 00:04:37.418 And then building a Fedora Flatpak seems to be a different process than, 00:04:37.538 --> 00:04:41.138 say, an upstream Flatpak that builds for Flathub. So there are different processes. 00:04:41.638 --> 00:04:45.298 Oh, yeah, right. I mean, they're totally disconnected. You're using all your 00:04:45.298 --> 00:04:50.338 regular RPM system and Fedora tooling to go build this version versus, 00:04:50.338 --> 00:04:51.818 well, whatever Upstream's doing. 00:04:51.978 --> 00:04:56.378 It does have some advantages. Fedora Flatpaks pay a lot more attention to free 00:04:56.378 --> 00:04:58.938 software and make sure that they're building directly from the source. 00:04:59.318 --> 00:05:03.098 They're built using the same source RPMs that the Fedora distribution packages are. 00:05:03.638 --> 00:05:05.818 So, you know, if they're doing some patching there, something like that, 00:05:05.918 --> 00:05:10.238 that gets included. So there are some benefits, but they're not getting particularly well maintained. 00:05:11.338 --> 00:05:15.698 And they seem to be creating user frustration. There was an LWN article in this 00:05:15.698 --> 00:05:18.398 realm, and some of the user comments really stuck with me. 00:05:19.698 --> 00:05:23.638 One user wrote, I had to step through a user who was having a bizarre issue 00:05:23.638 --> 00:05:27.158 with a package that I couldn't reproduce on the same Silverblue system. 00:05:27.858 --> 00:05:33.458 After several comments and hours of debugging, I realized the user had mistakenly 00:05:33.458 --> 00:05:37.078 installed the Fedora Flatpak version of a package that I had installed from 00:05:37.078 --> 00:05:39.478 Flathub. The Flathub package worked fine. 00:05:39.758 --> 00:05:43.978 They were frustrated, as I was, when they realized this, and they immediately 00:05:43.978 --> 00:05:47.778 removed the Fedora Flatpak repository and reinstalled everything via Flathub. 00:05:48.598 --> 00:05:53.918 And there's a couple examples of this. It creates frustration for the user. There's confusion. 00:05:54.178 --> 00:05:55.418 There's definitely confusion, yeah. 00:05:57.438 --> 00:06:03.158 We always see this a little bit when you do have separation between upstream 00:06:03.158 --> 00:06:05.978 and who's doing the actual shipping to the end user. 00:06:06.198 --> 00:06:09.518 But that's maybe where some of the like how much focus and bandwidth is available 00:06:09.518 --> 00:06:13.938 for that as well because it's even worse if you don't have anyone there to actually 00:06:13.938 --> 00:06:18.238 go figure out like, oh, is this a downstream issue or no, you should talk upstream. 00:06:18.238 --> 00:06:22.998 The advantage that the Fedora flatpacks offer the Fedora project is they don't 00:06:22.998 --> 00:06:26.678 have to worry about some of the legalese problems that might be in FlatHub packages 00:06:26.678 --> 00:06:28.718 and things like that. It really always comes down to that. 00:06:28.918 --> 00:06:33.098 Well, they have full control. The providence, the security can all be, 00:06:33.218 --> 00:06:36.698 at least to more of an extent, vouched for or changed. 00:06:38.527 --> 00:06:41.887 And when that's often sometimes, you know, for especially for like a common, 00:06:42.087 --> 00:06:45.367 maybe in the future desktop apps, maybe there's concerns there around two of 00:06:45.367 --> 00:06:50.387 what, what, what software do you show and sort of represents you and what control 00:06:50.387 --> 00:06:51.867 do you have over it? I can understand that. 00:06:52.347 --> 00:06:56.387 It's just if they're universal packages until they're not, and people are packaging 00:06:56.387 --> 00:06:59.407 them differently and they have different repositories that overlay on top of 00:06:59.407 --> 00:07:01.547 things and there's filters on top of this and that. 00:07:01.687 --> 00:07:05.447 And so when you go to the website, you get different results than you do in the software center. 00:07:06.427 --> 00:07:12.407 It's not a good user experience. And I think Flathub is becoming a bit of a 00:07:12.407 --> 00:07:13.547 dominant player in this space. 00:07:13.667 --> 00:07:15.987 I was just looking at their stats, which they make publicly available. 00:07:16.347 --> 00:07:20.607 They're approaching, they're just on the cusp of 3.1 billion downloads. 00:07:21.947 --> 00:07:28.447 They have 3,065 Linux desktop apps, of which 1,657 have been verified. 00:07:29.127 --> 00:07:32.107 I don't know about any public stats for snaps and app images, 00:07:32.427 --> 00:07:34.247 but that's a powerful presence. 00:07:35.087 --> 00:07:38.747 And what I see here is a lot of duplication of effort. 00:07:40.587 --> 00:07:43.927 And before I go any further, I want to just put this thought experiment out 00:07:43.927 --> 00:07:46.507 to the audience and have you chew on this and tell us what you think. 00:07:46.707 --> 00:07:48.147 Boost or go to the contact page. 00:07:49.327 --> 00:07:52.227 As we go through this, think about this deeply. 00:07:52.387 --> 00:07:57.087 If you're distributing switch to Flathub-only desktop apps, I'm not talking 00:07:57.087 --> 00:08:02.267 about the core utils, talking things like Firefox, your text editor. 00:08:02.267 --> 00:08:08.927 the things in the desktop email client if that all came from FlatHub as flatpacks 00:08:08.927 --> 00:08:14.667 or snaps or app images what specific tool or workflow would break for you in that scenario. 00:08:16.619 --> 00:08:22.959 What changes? Because let's consider a core problem that we hear over and over again. 00:08:23.179 --> 00:08:26.979 Free software developers don't have enough time, don't have enough resources, 00:08:27.319 --> 00:08:28.719 don't have enough money. 00:08:29.279 --> 00:08:33.259 And then when you consider that Flathub is at almost 3.1 billion downloads, 00:08:33.479 --> 00:08:37.259 or that things like the AUR, which are user-contributed packages, 00:08:37.739 --> 00:08:42.899 can be the make-or-break success for certain distributions, I guess it begs a big question. 00:08:43.759 --> 00:08:48.139 Should Linux distributions be packaging nearly everything that they are? 00:08:48.319 --> 00:08:50.519 They're still packaging the entire world. 00:08:51.639 --> 00:08:56.779 Is it time to revisit this classic role, reduce redundant efforts? 00:08:57.099 --> 00:09:00.699 Some of that could be redirected to improving Flathub and Flatpacks. 00:09:00.899 --> 00:09:04.179 And these distributions don't have to hold these massive repositories. 00:09:04.419 --> 00:09:06.279 Like, this just put ClearLinux out of business. 00:09:07.039 --> 00:09:10.879 The cost of ClearLinux repositories was one of the key contributors to having 00:09:10.879 --> 00:09:11.879 to shut down ClearLinux. 00:09:12.599 --> 00:09:16.239 So I want this to be out there as a thought experiment as we go through this, 00:09:16.279 --> 00:09:19.439 because there was a really good blog post. 00:09:19.979 --> 00:09:23.499 Brent, I think you got to take a crack at this last name here. 00:09:24.419 --> 00:09:27.679 It's Michael Contazaro. 00:09:27.979 --> 00:09:30.319 Oh, I think you nailed it. That's what I was going to go for. 00:09:30.419 --> 00:09:30.839 No, really? 00:09:31.159 --> 00:09:32.419 Contazaro. Why not? 00:09:33.159 --> 00:09:36.599 Well, he had a really thought provoking blog post, and the title was Fedora 00:09:36.599 --> 00:09:40.699 must carefully embrace FlatHub. And he argues that Fedora must strategically 00:09:40.699 --> 00:09:44.339 shift towards Flathub to fully realize the benefits of an image-based, 00:09:44.519 --> 00:09:46.199 Flatpak-centric desktop future. 00:09:46.479 --> 00:09:49.139 And before you go, well, why is that the assumption? 00:09:49.919 --> 00:09:53.739 Fedora has stated Silverblue and Kino Knight are the future of Fedora in their 00:09:53.739 --> 00:09:56.179 2028 strategy update outlook. 00:09:56.659 --> 00:10:01.959 They write in there, Silverblue and Kino Knight are ready to be our desktop additions with Boot C. 00:10:02.259 --> 00:10:06.619 We think image-based operating systems are the future. Let's commit. 00:10:07.219 --> 00:10:08.859 So they're the ones saying it, not me, 00:10:10.107 --> 00:10:16.427 But I happen to agree. After using Bluefin and Aurora and now Soltris OS, 00:10:17.467 --> 00:10:21.307 these things are robust. They're hard to break. You can throw a lot at them. 00:10:21.587 --> 00:10:24.507 This is clearly what end users and servers should be running. 00:10:25.427 --> 00:10:30.387 And realistically, probably the future of RHEL, right? If this is where Fedora goes. 00:10:30.807 --> 00:10:34.147 Well, and I mean, we've already just seen, right? RHEL's pushing on image mode. 00:10:34.427 --> 00:10:38.847 Yeah, and they're very pumped about Bootsy. Now, it doesn't mean that RPM-based 00:10:38.847 --> 00:10:42.307 distributions are going away. I think it's like a flippening happens. 00:10:42.607 --> 00:10:47.887 The image based ones become the default and the RPM based ones kind of become 00:10:47.887 --> 00:10:49.827 like the alt that's available. 00:10:50.007 --> 00:10:56.007 Like how silver blue is right now, it flips and workstation RPM based is the 00:10:56.007 --> 00:11:00.307 et cetera download and silver blue and Kino night are the primary. 00:11:00.307 --> 00:11:05.287 That becomes the first thing you get to the one that's viewed as primary. It's a big change. 00:11:05.407 --> 00:11:10.227 Yeah. We're not ready yet, but I think we could get there pretty quick, 00:11:10.247 --> 00:11:13.067 actually. That's one of the things I've realized recently. 00:11:13.627 --> 00:11:17.887 And I think the author is right in this post that Fedora Workstation, 00:11:18.027 --> 00:11:21.167 as it is today, for a regular user, it's breakable. 00:11:21.827 --> 00:11:24.467 Like if he gave it to a YouTuber, they'd break it. 00:11:25.647 --> 00:11:28.807 They'd try to install Steam and uninstall their desktop. Something like that. 00:11:29.627 --> 00:11:33.827 I really think it's better for users to switch to these image-based systems. 00:11:34.187 --> 00:11:41.667 And I feel really strongly about this. And in that world, you don't package all these RPMs. 00:11:42.407 --> 00:11:44.767 That's an old practice. Right. 00:11:45.047 --> 00:11:48.067 I mean, just for a variety of reasons, but especially if all you're really using 00:11:48.067 --> 00:11:53.427 the RPMs for is to build the base images, then you only really need the set of things in there. 00:11:53.667 --> 00:11:56.807 You need to create a robust base Linux. 00:11:57.987 --> 00:12:03.487 And I'm just trying to think, where else in history have we seen 3.1 billion 00:12:03.487 --> 00:12:06.087 downloads from what is essentially a Linux app store? 00:12:07.327 --> 00:12:11.747 FlatHub is the biggest success in this desktop app store-ish space that we've ever seen. 00:12:11.907 --> 00:12:14.907 Well, I remember when it kind of switched, you know, we clued in that like, 00:12:15.007 --> 00:12:20.067 oh, we could go find some good picks and other cool software from just browsing 00:12:20.067 --> 00:12:21.907 what's new and popular on FlatHub. 00:12:22.067 --> 00:12:25.927 And I also find the Fedora Flatpak experience bogus. And then you, 00:12:25.947 --> 00:12:30.347 so you have, you know, everybody out there is packaging their own version of 00:12:30.347 --> 00:12:32.487 Firefox. It's kind of crazy. 00:12:33.187 --> 00:12:37.207 You know, if you think about it, if you're running Nix OS on one machine, 00:12:37.407 --> 00:12:42.367 Ubuntu on one machine, and Silverblue, and then Fedora on another machine, 00:12:42.667 --> 00:12:46.287 each one of those is technically running a slightly different version of Firefox 00:12:46.287 --> 00:12:48.167 that has been packaged by somebody upstream. 00:12:48.967 --> 00:12:54.047 That's bonkers if you think about it. And it's not how it works on macOS or Windows at all. 00:12:55.050 --> 00:13:01.210 And it means all this work to repackage Firefox and TextEdit and Console across 00:13:01.210 --> 00:13:03.350 all these distributions all the time. 00:13:04.430 --> 00:13:10.170 It seems to me like we're stuck in this way of doing it because in a previous 00:13:10.170 --> 00:13:15.170 life, a generation or two ago, how a distribution packaged software, 00:13:15.430 --> 00:13:19.030 the way they packaged it, the way they broke it up, their default configurations, 00:13:19.610 --> 00:13:22.790 that was one of the leading factors in how you picked a Linux distribution. 00:13:22.790 --> 00:13:25.770 And it really mattered when software was being shipped on CDs. 00:13:26.290 --> 00:13:29.370 Well, and just even the act of distributing it was a service, 00:13:29.530 --> 00:13:32.830 right? Like it was either that or you're going to go build Firefox for yourself. 00:13:32.990 --> 00:13:35.030 Because they're all like TARS on FTP servers. 00:13:35.150 --> 00:13:35.290 Right. 00:13:36.210 --> 00:13:40.050 And it truly, like the fact that you could get it in binary form and have these 00:13:40.050 --> 00:13:44.410 repositories you could pull from was a genuine, unique value offering. 00:13:44.410 --> 00:13:47.810 And maybe there was more too, you know, in terms of tying things together. 00:13:48.130 --> 00:13:51.750 Maybe there was more patching or tweaks or initial configuration needed to make 00:13:51.750 --> 00:13:54.650 it kind of be able to play nice with the rest of the desktop. 00:13:54.970 --> 00:13:56.130 That's gotten a lot better too. 00:13:56.290 --> 00:14:01.430 I think that culture is just so ingrained into us in Linux that we don't even 00:14:01.430 --> 00:14:04.750 realize we're still building it that way, even though we don't need to anymore. 00:14:05.250 --> 00:14:07.770 And I just think about the duplication of resources there. 00:14:08.390 --> 00:14:11.470 and you know the status quo right now say on fedora workstation i'm 00:14:11.470 --> 00:14:14.250 picking on fedora because i think fedora is actually becoming something kind 00:14:14.250 --> 00:14:17.330 of special right now when you 00:14:17.330 --> 00:14:21.590 set up fedora and you get it loaded it then comes up with a screen that says 00:14:21.590 --> 00:14:26.950 would you like to set up fedora flat packs fedora rpms and the open h264 rpm 00:14:26.950 --> 00:14:31.530 and there's this like if you and then if you don't like turn on the flat hub 00:14:31.530 --> 00:14:35.190 then the next time you open up gnome software it'll then suggest it again, 00:14:35.810 --> 00:14:38.290 and it'll also add a couple other RPM repositories. 00:14:38.650 --> 00:14:42.950 And it's just such a bonkers out-of-the-box setup already. 00:14:43.950 --> 00:14:48.330 And I don't think sticking with Fedora flatpacks in any way is going to make this better. 00:14:49.910 --> 00:14:55.710 And maybe, you know, you package a few base must-have things and then all the 00:14:55.710 --> 00:14:57.030 other stuff you pull from FlatHub. 00:14:57.310 --> 00:15:00.230 Yeah, that's kind of this post-author's opinion, right? 00:15:00.310 --> 00:15:03.510 Like maybe just have the stuff that you install by default, 00:15:03.510 --> 00:15:06.410 you know that kind of represents you that's your public face that 00:15:06.410 --> 00:15:09.990 you really need to be rock solid and maybe have a little more control over use 00:15:09.990 --> 00:15:15.110 fedora flat flat pack for that but then yeah anything else that you want go 00:15:15.110 --> 00:15:18.710 to flat hub although i think crucially right there's also a recognition here 00:15:18.710 --> 00:15:23.810 that it's gonna if you want flat hub to improve enough to be suitable for this 00:15:23.810 --> 00:15:28.550 purpose there's a lot of work to do and probably the fedora community should try and help, 00:15:29.807 --> 00:15:32.427 And I mean, of course, the wider Linux community, I think we would argue too. 00:15:32.707 --> 00:15:40.187 If this idea of, you know, a distribution having its own private flat hub offering 00:15:40.187 --> 00:15:45.867 for its default applications, if every distribution then has its own, 00:15:46.027 --> 00:15:49.727 don't we end up with the same like PPA problem that we've had in the Ubuntu 00:15:49.727 --> 00:15:53.807 ecosystem where there's some installed by default? 00:15:53.807 --> 00:15:57.187 And if you want what everybody else is using, then you end up with conflicts 00:15:57.187 --> 00:16:01.027 or something like that. I don't know if that's really the future I want. 00:16:01.267 --> 00:16:05.207 I agree with you there. And I think this is where distributions differentiate. 00:16:05.447 --> 00:16:09.467 And they have different approaches on how they package the base system that you get. 00:16:10.387 --> 00:16:13.187 Because you need to still have the core utils installed. You need to get the 00:16:13.187 --> 00:16:15.587 Linux packages installed and all the stuff around that. 00:16:16.087 --> 00:16:19.407 You've got to get all that set up. And you've got to have some base apps that 00:16:19.407 --> 00:16:20.947 work right out of the box. 00:16:22.087 --> 00:16:23.827 So I appreciate that problem. 00:16:24.427 --> 00:16:27.987 I mean, yeah, there's the question of, like, where does your graphical terminal 00:16:27.987 --> 00:16:31.287 come from? Do you have to ship that from the FlatHub version? 00:16:31.527 --> 00:16:32.387 Well, Bluefin does. 00:16:32.567 --> 00:16:32.887 It's true. 00:16:33.007 --> 00:16:35.187 Aurora does, and it works great. 00:16:35.767 --> 00:16:38.267 But that doesn't mean it's the only way that can work well. 00:16:38.367 --> 00:16:41.667 I think it could be a Blueprint, though. I really do think they're onto something 00:16:41.667 --> 00:16:44.167 here. And it also makes my system a lot more portable. 00:16:44.287 --> 00:16:47.067 Like, I can rebase to different systems, and all my user apps stay there. 00:16:48.207 --> 00:16:52.567 I think the core problem here is, is FlatHub ready for a responsibility like 00:16:52.567 --> 00:16:55.787 this? That, I think, is a wider question, right? 00:16:56.567 --> 00:17:00.627 Well, I just mean like if you, you may also want more gated controls and what 00:17:00.627 --> 00:17:01.987 counts as a user app, right? 00:17:02.467 --> 00:17:05.027 Why would you want more gated controls? Just because it's legal? 00:17:05.227 --> 00:17:10.987 Well, no, no. What if upstream breaks your terminal that you just, 00:17:11.047 --> 00:17:12.927 just after you did your most recent release? 00:17:14.067 --> 00:17:17.927 We're going, you know, Linux Unplugged goes and does a review and the terminal app doesn't work. 00:17:17.927 --> 00:17:18.927 But isn't that a problem? 00:17:19.347 --> 00:17:23.227 I'm just arguing that there's, that's a debate of like, do you have some level 00:17:23.227 --> 00:17:25.967 of control? because like that's a bit different than you know. 00:17:25.967 --> 00:17:29.747 D packages you're presuming the packager has tested in a way that would catch 00:17:29.747 --> 00:17:35.307 that before it goes downstream like the rpm version yeah i don't know if that's true for. 00:17:35.307 --> 00:17:36.947 Like some of the stuff on the yeah. 00:17:36.947 --> 00:17:39.367 I mean some of it would be but you know and then if. 00:17:39.367 --> 00:17:41.947 You do any sort of release qa that's the kind of thing. 00:17:41.947 --> 00:17:42.247 You would. 00:17:42.247 --> 00:17:43.007 Launch the terminal. 00:17:43.007 --> 00:17:47.947 That i so i think right so there there's a few things here that would have to 00:17:47.947 --> 00:17:50.207 work you'd have to have some pretty robust testing, 00:17:51.663 --> 00:17:55.663 Flat Hub would have to be probably a little more robust, right? 00:17:55.743 --> 00:17:58.583 There's some good criticisms that we can get into if people are interested. 00:17:59.963 --> 00:18:02.303 But if we're going to get into the Flat Hub criticisms, I'd like to bring a 00:18:02.303 --> 00:18:06.843 Flat Hub person on board just to respond to them before we just blast a bunch of criticisms at them. 00:18:08.563 --> 00:18:11.843 But some of them are pretty obvious. There's a thousand apps that run on end-of-life 00:18:11.843 --> 00:18:15.043 runtimes, and the reasons for that are various. 00:18:15.283 --> 00:18:17.703 Some of them are because they're not being maintained, but some of it are because 00:18:17.703 --> 00:18:20.183 of compatibility reasons, like with NVIDIA drivers or whatnot. 00:18:21.223 --> 00:18:25.143 And there are some apps that try to subvert the sandboxing or have overly broad 00:18:25.143 --> 00:18:26.763 permissions, probably needs tightening up. 00:18:27.043 --> 00:18:31.743 And we're still, I mean, it's been a long voyage, right, of working out all 00:18:31.743 --> 00:18:36.123 the right holes and protocols and interfaces to, like, some apps couldn't be 00:18:36.123 --> 00:18:38.183 sandboxed and still properly function. 00:18:38.363 --> 00:18:38.523 Right. 00:18:38.703 --> 00:18:40.303 So we're still kind of fixing some of those, too. 00:18:40.343 --> 00:18:42.143 And I still think it's better than no sandboxing. 00:18:42.343 --> 00:18:46.403 Yeah, for sure. Especially when you're still in proprietary apps. 00:18:46.523 --> 00:18:49.983 The idea that the blog author floats it I think works kind of well, And I'm curious to know, 00:18:50.183 --> 00:18:53.903 Brent, if there is maybe a middle ground here that you think would work is Fedora 00:18:53.903 --> 00:18:59.303 clearly isn't capable or isn't comfortable just letting the whole hog flat hub 00:18:59.303 --> 00:19:03.123 install anything you want that might be, you know, technically not legal. 00:19:03.463 --> 00:19:06.383 That that bothers them. You know, they've always had to walk the line with legal. 00:19:07.123 --> 00:19:09.063 This post author suggests that. 00:19:10.881 --> 00:19:14.681 Gnome's got like a probably safe rating that they're introducing for applications. 00:19:14.681 --> 00:19:20.961 You could essentially label things as probably safe, and maybe that's all the filtering you need. 00:19:21.101 --> 00:19:24.281 So instead of right now what they have is an allow list that is essentially 00:19:24.281 --> 00:19:29.521 blank at the moment, but they can block and allow certain apps from Flathub 00:19:29.521 --> 00:19:31.601 with a pre-filter list that they have. 00:19:31.721 --> 00:19:34.481 They're not really utilizing at the moment. There was a discussion around that. 00:19:34.661 --> 00:19:39.741 But what if that pre-filter was just simply, by default, just show the probably 00:19:39.741 --> 00:19:43.441 safe apps, And then there's a checkbox or a drop-down menu that you uncheck 00:19:43.441 --> 00:19:45.441 that shows all the other apps if you want it. 00:19:45.781 --> 00:19:49.021 Couldn't that be a pretty simple middle ground where they don't have to actively filter? 00:19:49.761 --> 00:19:52.161 It's something that needs to happen anyways on the FlatHub side, 00:19:52.181 --> 00:19:54.201 and the GNOME project already has some efforts around that. 00:19:54.761 --> 00:19:59.461 Maybe this is a middle ground? Or is filtering just always going to be a lost cause? 00:20:00.401 --> 00:20:06.241 Well, I feel like some visibility into the trustworthiness of a Flatpak is always good. 00:20:06.381 --> 00:20:09.361 Everybody wins with that. but you end up with 00:20:09.361 --> 00:20:12.401 this workload of someone has to go through 00:20:12.401 --> 00:20:16.101 them and trust them and revisit 00:20:16.101 --> 00:20:19.601 that trust on a regular basis and who 00:20:19.601 --> 00:20:23.681 is responsible for um applying 00:20:23.681 --> 00:20:26.561 that trust right is it the gnome project is 00:20:26.561 --> 00:20:30.541 it like a bigger conglomerate of 00:20:30.541 --> 00:20:33.461 like a bunch of distributions coming together with representatives that 00:20:33.461 --> 00:20:37.441 filter through these so some transparency 00:20:37.441 --> 00:20:41.361 i think it's really good this is a problem many distributions would want to 00:20:41.361 --> 00:20:45.881 solve and me and as an end user and i think you guys too having more visibility 00:20:45.881 --> 00:20:52.521 into the trustworthiness of uh you know publicly available flat packs on flat 00:20:52.521 --> 00:20:57.201 hub is a definite win it's one of my huge hesitations with using flat packs for everything, 00:20:58.181 --> 00:21:03.161 So, yes, I think it's super important, but it's not necessarily obvious how 00:21:03.161 --> 00:21:06.661 to accomplish that in a way that isn't a bit nebulous. 00:21:07.061 --> 00:21:10.101 And a burden on one particular set of people or something too. 00:21:11.483 --> 00:21:14.583 Yeah, I'd love thoughts if people have thoughts around that. 00:21:14.963 --> 00:21:22.803 I think the other thing that I want to put out there as a thought experiment is what if, just what if, 00:21:23.063 --> 00:21:31.443 somewhere between 20% to 50% of the distro packaging maintainership out there is redundant work? 00:21:31.863 --> 00:21:37.463 What if 20% to 50% of the apps that they're packaging are getting packaged by 00:21:37.463 --> 00:21:40.303 their counterparts at 200 other Linux distributions? 00:21:41.103 --> 00:21:47.043 Doesn't that seem like a wild misuse of resources and time when we have solutions now in place? 00:21:47.863 --> 00:21:51.003 And even if some of us wouldn't prefer them and we would use other tools like 00:21:51.003 --> 00:21:56.203 the AUR or the Nix package repository or maybe, you know, Debian would probably 00:21:56.203 --> 00:21:57.703 never go this way. So you'd still have all that. 00:21:57.823 --> 00:22:01.003 But like, you know what I'm saying? Like, it just seems even if it's 20%, 00:22:01.003 --> 00:22:03.183 it's something worth talking about. 00:22:03.443 --> 00:22:07.423 And then here's the other realization I've had in the last few weeks since we were in Boston. 00:22:08.223 --> 00:22:11.203 using Bluefin and Aurora and Soltris OS. 00:22:12.183 --> 00:22:15.983 Bluefin doesn't have a package repository at all. 00:22:16.543 --> 00:22:21.423 The Bluefin devs are not wasting their time repackaging Firefox and all the 00:22:21.423 --> 00:22:22.843 other apps for the 200th time. 00:22:23.863 --> 00:22:30.063 And what I've realized is Fedora is about to enter their Debian Ubuntu moment. 00:22:30.523 --> 00:22:35.183 We've said it on the show before, back in the day, why aren't there more distributions 00:22:35.183 --> 00:22:38.103 based on Fedora like there's distributions based on Debian. 00:22:38.203 --> 00:22:42.143 There's so many Ubuntu and Debian-based distributions and Arch-based distributions, 00:22:42.723 --> 00:22:46.403 it's really kind of wild. But you don't see it around Fedora and SUSE as much. 00:22:46.863 --> 00:22:48.663 Well, now we are seeing it around Fedora. 00:22:49.343 --> 00:22:54.903 And Bluefin comes with a bunch of sane apps that humans would want to use with 00:22:54.903 --> 00:22:57.383 sane defaults, just like Ubuntu did back in the day. 00:22:58.143 --> 00:23:03.663 And it lets you just get to work. Silver Blue feels like installing the Debian 00:23:03.663 --> 00:23:05.423 desktop after Ubuntu came out. 00:23:06.123 --> 00:23:09.343 And it's got this weird kind of aesthetic. 00:23:09.763 --> 00:23:14.363 It's got a super limited selection of applications. When you search, 00:23:14.463 --> 00:23:16.123 the repositories feel really limited. 00:23:16.283 --> 00:23:22.203 And it's this weird mix of new and old where you go over to Ubuntu and they've 00:23:22.203 --> 00:23:26.823 curated a theme and a default selection of applications and settings for the 00:23:26.823 --> 00:23:28.363 whole system that are very reasonable. 00:23:29.603 --> 00:23:34.923 And app availability plays a huge part here because everything that's in Flathub 00:23:34.923 --> 00:23:37.883 is available to me. And they have Bazaar or Bazaar, however you say it now, 00:23:37.983 --> 00:23:40.003 to search apps. It's super fast and lean and mean. 00:23:40.803 --> 00:23:45.603 And so while I do have a few FlatHub concerns, like old runtimes, 00:23:46.003 --> 00:23:49.163 you know, and the fact that they do seem very GTK4, LibWadia, 00:23:49.263 --> 00:23:51.883 GNOME focused, and, you know, I'm a Plasma guy mostly. 00:23:52.583 --> 00:23:56.983 Like those are concerns I have, a bunch of other ones. But the difference is 00:23:56.983 --> 00:24:01.663 so stark. and I don't think Fedora doesn't have to worry about it right now 00:24:01.663 --> 00:24:06.223 because the UBlue based stuff is what, around 25,000 users total, 00:24:07.603 --> 00:24:10.543 difference there is really something if you try silver 00:24:10.543 --> 00:24:15.883 blue and then try bluefin it's very much an ubuntu debian experience and i think 00:24:15.883 --> 00:24:21.963 fedora has to consider switching the way they deliver software to stay relevant 00:24:21.963 --> 00:24:27.163 and stay competitive in this new future especially if kino knight and silverblue 00:24:27.163 --> 00:24:29.483 like they say are their stated future yeah. 00:24:29.483 --> 00:24:33.623 I mean if so yeah i think the things we're talking about here exactly what you 00:24:33.623 --> 00:24:37.523 need to do to prepare for it so that your your base is well-optimized to live 00:24:37.523 --> 00:24:39.603 in a future that is based around Flatpak. 00:24:40.323 --> 00:24:44.763 Let us know, boost in, or go to the contact page if an app package, 00:24:44.843 --> 00:24:49.783 if app packaging stopped being a differentiator, so say they mostly just went 00:24:49.783 --> 00:24:51.563 with FlatHub except for the core stuff. 00:24:52.823 --> 00:24:57.103 At that point, what would make you say pick Fedora over Debian or vice versa? 00:24:57.243 --> 00:25:00.283 Say in the year 2028, they started implementing this stuff next year. 00:25:01.063 --> 00:25:05.823 By the year 2028, most of your desktop applications are delivered via Snap or 00:25:05.823 --> 00:25:10.363 AppImage or Flatpak, then what makes you pick a distro? 00:25:11.263 --> 00:25:15.883 Are you looking for a distro that doesn't do that? What differentiates the distros now at that point? 00:25:16.683 --> 00:25:20.203 Especially when you consider SystemD and the kernels kind of the same across all of them. 00:25:21.283 --> 00:25:23.543 I'd love to know your thoughts, especially those of you that have been using 00:25:23.543 --> 00:25:24.403 desktop Linux for a while. 00:25:24.503 --> 00:25:29.423 Please boost in, support the show, or go to linuxunplugged.com slash contact. 00:25:33.343 --> 00:25:40.403 1Password.com slash unplugged. That's the number 1Password.com slash unplugged, all lowercase. 00:25:40.783 --> 00:25:44.843 Go take the first step to better security for your team by securing credentials 00:25:44.843 --> 00:25:49.803 and protecting every application, even the unmanaged shadow IT. 00:25:50.063 --> 00:25:54.243 If you're in security or if you're an IT professional, you know the mountain 00:25:54.243 --> 00:25:55.723 of assets these days to protect. 00:25:55.943 --> 00:26:00.303 From devices to identities and applications, It's just more and more all the time. 00:26:00.683 --> 00:26:04.183 And with that, often comes a mountain of security risk. 00:26:04.463 --> 00:26:10.123 But you can actually conquer that mountain of security risk with 1Password Extended Access Management. 00:26:10.743 --> 00:26:15.683 You see, over half of IT pros say that securing SaaS apps, that's their biggest challenge right now. 00:26:16.063 --> 00:26:19.823 And I can understand why, because it's just growing at such a rapid pace. 00:26:19.823 --> 00:26:21.583 You could kind of call it sprawl. 00:26:21.763 --> 00:26:25.523 And from that, you get your shadow IT, the stuff that's not even on your radar. 00:26:25.883 --> 00:26:28.383 It's not hard to see why. Users are just trying to get stuff done. 00:26:30.288 --> 00:26:34.768 That's where Trellica comes in by 1Password. It will discover and secure access 00:26:34.768 --> 00:26:37.428 to all your apps, managed or not. 00:26:37.708 --> 00:26:42.048 Trellica by 1Password inventories every app in use at your company. 00:26:42.368 --> 00:26:46.928 And then it has pre-populated app profiles that can assess the SaaS risks, 00:26:47.088 --> 00:26:48.168 letting you manage access. 00:26:48.448 --> 00:26:51.708 You can also optimize your spend and get a handle on that, even quantify it. 00:26:51.888 --> 00:26:55.448 And enforce security best practices across every app your employees use, 00:26:55.808 --> 00:26:57.708 even the ones you didn't know about initially. 00:26:58.688 --> 00:27:03.048 Now, 1Password came along, and they just changed the password game for managing 00:27:03.048 --> 00:27:04.268 your identities online. 00:27:04.468 --> 00:27:09.128 And they've done it in a way that's very approachable by end users and manageable by IT. 00:27:09.868 --> 00:27:13.028 Well, that only a million times more, right? 00:27:13.128 --> 00:27:18.528 That award-winning strategy now applied at the application level. 00:27:18.688 --> 00:27:23.148 You have to really go check it out. So go to 1Password.com slash unplugged. 00:27:23.208 --> 00:27:27.008 That's where you have to take the first steps because there's more to secure than just passwords. 00:27:27.568 --> 00:27:32.088 Managed and unmanaged SaaS applications, for instance, are a big deal. 00:27:32.568 --> 00:27:36.488 Trelica by 1Password will secure your apps without leaving your employees behind. 00:27:36.768 --> 00:27:40.168 There are a lot more options now, and Trelica by 1Password can help you take 00:27:40.168 --> 00:27:41.528 control of your SaaS environment. 00:27:41.708 --> 00:27:46.928 Check compliance off your list and reduce unnecessary costs by analyzing app 00:27:46.928 --> 00:27:52.688 usage and using data to identify and eliminate unused licenses and redundant apps. 00:27:52.688 --> 00:27:57.348 It really, truly does make things better for both you and the end users. 00:27:57.548 --> 00:28:01.868 Check it out and support the show by going to 1password.com slash unplugged. 00:28:10.068 --> 00:28:13.108 Okay, well, you can tell a kernel release is a good one. 00:28:13.448 --> 00:28:18.028 When checking my notes here, I'm posting at five minutes after midnight about, 00:28:18.228 --> 00:28:21.868 oh my gosh, there's just so much great stuff in 6.16. 00:28:22.688 --> 00:28:23.248 Is that Larble? 00:28:23.408 --> 00:28:24.068 No, that was me. 00:28:24.208 --> 00:28:27.808 Oh, that was you? I could see being either one. 00:28:27.828 --> 00:28:31.068 That was after me reading like most of the changes in the kernel and having 00:28:31.068 --> 00:28:33.968 a hard time picking which ones I wanted to even attempt to slot into the show. 00:28:34.108 --> 00:28:39.588 I agree. This is one of those where we could go on for two episodes about all 00:28:39.588 --> 00:28:43.248 the new stuff because NVIDIA Blackwell saw a bunch of improvements. 00:28:43.308 --> 00:28:49.788 The new Intel stuff, RISC GPU drivers saw a lot of work. Even Ethernet drivers. 00:28:51.208 --> 00:28:54.288 Virtualization improvements. Just a whole raft of stuff and, 00:28:54.388 --> 00:28:56.428 of course, some new Rust stuff as well. 00:28:57.715 --> 00:29:00.475 Like new Rust kernel driver bindings and things like that. 00:29:00.595 --> 00:29:04.015 Yeah, the Rust effort marches on. More subsystems get in interfaces. 00:29:04.315 --> 00:29:09.075 I don't know what it is about the three of us, though, but something about the 00:29:09.075 --> 00:29:12.415 file system news just really seems to be the most exciting to us. 00:29:12.935 --> 00:29:15.435 I think it's, I blame Brent because he's always talking about building a file 00:29:15.435 --> 00:29:16.455 server, so it's your fault, Brent. 00:29:16.655 --> 00:29:17.675 Well, I know how to get you going. 00:29:17.675 --> 00:29:19.295 He's perennially doing a backup, so. 00:29:19.795 --> 00:29:25.115 It's, I think also, it's amazing the amount of improvements and work that are 00:29:25.115 --> 00:29:27.675 landing across the various file systems still. 00:29:28.395 --> 00:29:30.355 Everyone wins with 6.16. 00:29:30.615 --> 00:29:35.875 Yeah, really. ButterFS continues to get faster in 6.16. The biggest highlight 00:29:35.875 --> 00:29:38.215 this cycle is performance for ButterFS. 00:29:38.775 --> 00:29:42.455 There's been buffer conversion work that helps metadata-heavy operations, 00:29:43.135 --> 00:29:45.335 so you get throughput and runtime improvements. 00:29:45.575 --> 00:29:50.095 Yeah, plus 50% throughput, minus 33% runtime. That sounds great. 00:29:50.675 --> 00:29:54.175 On top of that, cleanups and efficiency tweaks, they say, So some just nice 00:29:54.175 --> 00:29:56.775 overall gains from that. It's good to see that too. 00:29:57.535 --> 00:30:02.475 Leaner and meaner ButterFS in Linux 6.16, even when dealing with lots of metadata. 00:30:04.555 --> 00:30:11.955 ButterFS has been going through a six plus year cycle of improvements in every Linux release. 00:30:12.915 --> 00:30:17.095 I mean, think about how that stacks up over time. So if you haven't tried ButterFS 00:30:17.095 --> 00:30:21.495 yet, your perception might be a little out of date because I'm talking literally 00:30:21.495 --> 00:30:26.795 every kernel release for the last six years, has had really nice butter FS improvements. 00:30:27.175 --> 00:30:29.835 What hasn't seen a lot of improvement for a while, because it's just pretty 00:30:29.835 --> 00:30:33.435 stable, but saw some big changes this release was... 00:30:33.435 --> 00:30:35.915 That's right, Extended 4. 00:30:36.175 --> 00:30:41.135 It's been a minute, but 6.16 introduces notable performance enhancements for 00:30:41.135 --> 00:30:45.915 Extended 4, primarily focused on three areas, fast commit improvements, 00:30:46.415 --> 00:30:50.635 multi-FS block atomic write support, and big ALEC file systems, 00:30:50.635 --> 00:30:54.735 and most significantly large folio support for regular files. 00:30:54.895 --> 00:30:59.615 Yeah, as Ted So wrote, this last result there, the large folio support, 00:30:59.835 --> 00:31:04.415 it can show really stupendous performance for the right workloads. 00:31:04.735 --> 00:31:05.435 Stupendous, huh? 00:31:05.495 --> 00:31:06.195 Yeah, stupendous. 00:31:06.355 --> 00:31:08.715 What is stupendous? Can you measure stupendous? 00:31:08.835 --> 00:31:12.515 For example, see, he links here, we'll put that in the notes, 00:31:12.775 --> 00:31:18.915 where the kernel test robot reported over 37% improvements on a large sequential I.O. 00:31:18.955 --> 00:31:23.915 workload. nearly 40 percent intel's kernel test robots so props to them. 00:31:25.562 --> 00:31:27.082 So we're going back to Extended 4, boys? 00:31:27.242 --> 00:31:28.162 I guess so. 00:31:29.722 --> 00:31:33.142 Scrap your head now, Brent. We're starting over. We're going to Extended 4, okay? 00:31:33.922 --> 00:31:36.502 You can do both, right, I think? Can't we do both? 00:31:36.862 --> 00:31:40.262 Yeah, we'll do LLVM on top of it. It'll be fine. LLVM on top of it. 00:31:41.122 --> 00:31:45.262 Last but not least in our batch of updates, well, not last, but almost last, 00:31:45.382 --> 00:31:48.442 is XFS. So second to last, but still. 00:31:49.482 --> 00:31:52.142 XFS officially merged Atomic Write Support. 00:31:52.342 --> 00:31:52.962 That's a big one. 00:31:53.142 --> 00:31:58.522 Yeah. I believe it was developed by an engineer built upon groundwork done by 00:31:58.522 --> 00:31:59.622 another engineer at Oracle. 00:31:59.922 --> 00:32:02.362 So some Oracle time went into that. 00:32:03.302 --> 00:32:06.562 It enables atomic writes primarily for single block operations due to limitations 00:32:06.562 --> 00:32:07.942 in alignment and extent coverage. 00:32:08.142 --> 00:32:12.162 A software-based fallback method is available and introduced for misaligned 00:32:12.162 --> 00:32:18.742 or multi-extent writes, leveraging XFS's ref link copy on write mechanism. 00:32:19.362 --> 00:32:24.662 I know, right? Even XFS is partially copy-on-write these days. 00:32:25.422 --> 00:32:30.142 Hmm. Interestingly, tested it using MySQL databases and saw some nice performance improvements. 00:32:30.922 --> 00:32:35.322 Additionally, experimental warnings for features like the PNFS and Scrub and 00:32:35.322 --> 00:32:38.962 parent pointers features have been removed in 6.16, so they're no longer considered 00:32:38.962 --> 00:32:39.822 experimental features. 00:32:40.362 --> 00:32:40.622 Oh. 00:32:40.902 --> 00:32:45.622 So XFS has Scrub now. It's got copy-on-write. It's got atomic write support. 00:32:45.862 --> 00:32:48.922 Yeah, that makes sense, too, especially for databases. This kind of thing is 00:32:48.922 --> 00:32:52.042 definitely nice. So XFS is an excellent database backing system. 00:32:52.202 --> 00:32:58.962 You're talking a super high integrity file system now with reliable write consistency. 00:32:59.142 --> 00:32:59.902 That's just great to see. 00:33:00.062 --> 00:33:03.842 But do I want the atomic write support in XFS or do I really want to try out 00:33:03.842 --> 00:33:07.502 the stupendous performance in the XT4? How many file systems am I going to have to make here? 00:33:07.562 --> 00:33:11.102 Well, let me throw one last one at you. Our buddy, Kent Dover Street, 00:33:11.202 --> 00:33:13.982 of course, got some BcacheFS improvements in 6.16. 00:33:15.282 --> 00:33:18.942 And you know we love following this. Key highlights include performance improvements 00:33:18.942 --> 00:33:24.202 with faster snapshot deletions, faster device removal, and coalesced accounting updates. 00:33:24.642 --> 00:33:28.442 Yeah, basically it's kind of when you have metadata and accounting updates, 00:33:28.662 --> 00:33:32.762 you batch them together before going to the transaction to commit to put a little 00:33:32.762 --> 00:33:36.322 less pressure on the journal, which should just generally be good for performance. 00:33:36.562 --> 00:33:40.802 Also in 6.16, there is significant progress on the self-healing and recovery 00:33:40.802 --> 00:33:45.482 features of BcacheFS with background recovery passes triggered upon error detection 00:33:45.482 --> 00:33:48.042 and a new recovery pass for the rebalance of Btree. 00:33:49.082 --> 00:33:51.602 So it detects it in the background and initiates the repair. 00:33:51.902 --> 00:33:56.262 Yeah, Kent's pretty much just been in bug fix and repair mode. 00:33:56.602 --> 00:33:58.102 Error message enhancements, better error messages. 00:33:58.302 --> 00:34:02.682 Yeah, just everything in, like, making it more robust and resilient and better 00:34:02.682 --> 00:34:04.642 at telling you what's happening and what's wrong. 00:34:04.802 --> 00:34:07.262 And more stats. I mean, there's stats encounters all over the place. 00:34:07.442 --> 00:34:11.382 I don't know what this means for 6.17. 00:34:11.982 --> 00:34:16.242 No, I don't think anyone does. I mean, Kent and Linus might, but we do not. 00:34:16.242 --> 00:34:22.622 But also it was nice to see Linus merging a last-minute fix in 6.16 for a user-reported 00:34:22.622 --> 00:34:25.422 bug, resolving an issue with encrypted file systems. 00:34:26.002 --> 00:34:30.522 Yeah, this is all very nice to see because I think it just means if there is 00:34:30.522 --> 00:34:34.042 going to be uncertainty around how you should be getting your BcacheFS, 00:34:34.322 --> 00:34:39.302 6.16 will be a really great kernel to be on for a while until that shakes out. 00:34:39.462 --> 00:34:45.162 This also marks the end of that little pause of BcacheFS being merged into the kernel. Is that right? 00:34:45.162 --> 00:34:48.182 Well, it kind of marks this. Well, so it's marking the start. 00:34:48.302 --> 00:34:53.142 This that drama unfolded throughout the beginning development of 616. 00:34:53.342 --> 00:34:54.762 I got it. 00:34:54.762 --> 00:34:58.682 And so what Linus kind of said is, all right, I'm going to accept these packages. 00:34:58.922 --> 00:35:00.742 And then he said, we're going to part ways after that. 00:35:01.182 --> 00:35:07.902 So I think what Linus and Ken are both kind of maybe offline or just have come 00:35:07.902 --> 00:35:11.562 to some sort of a quasi agreement is they're trying, like Wes said, 00:35:12.282 --> 00:35:16.342 get it into a state where if it gets removed from the Linux kernel for a while, 00:35:16.562 --> 00:35:20.002 you're going to be OK on 6.16 until things get resolved. 00:35:20.182 --> 00:35:23.722 And now the pause begins, but we don't know what that pause looks like. 00:35:24.462 --> 00:35:28.622 we just have to wait and see I've made my feelings pretty clear about it I think 00:35:28.622 --> 00:35:30.262 bcachefs is a critical Linux, 00:35:31.302 --> 00:35:33.682 feature, probably more important than some of the other things that are getting 00:35:33.682 --> 00:35:36.922 worked on right now in my personal opinion, but what the hell do I know but 00:35:36.922 --> 00:35:39.742 we'll keep an eye on it and see where things go for 6.17, so it's nice to see 00:35:39.742 --> 00:35:43.622 bcachefs get in a good state as good as can be at this stage, 00:35:44.661 --> 00:35:46.241 before that happens. 00:35:46.481 --> 00:35:48.241 Yeah, Ken's definitely been putting in a lot of hard work. 00:35:48.741 --> 00:35:54.821 One of the distributions that's jumping on Linux 6.16 really early that I didn't expect is Ubuntu. 00:35:55.881 --> 00:35:58.921 Kinda. You see this? This is interesting. 00:35:59.221 --> 00:36:05.161 I guess for their concept ISO, which is for the Snapdragon X1 laptops. 00:36:05.361 --> 00:36:11.421 Yeah, yeah. Yeah, well, 6.16 has patches and fixes for some of these Snapdragon 00:36:11.421 --> 00:36:13.201 SOCs and the components in there. 00:36:13.201 --> 00:36:16.121 and 616 adds device tree support for the 00:36:16.121 --> 00:36:19.081 dell latitude 7455 the inspiran 00:36:19.081 --> 00:36:23.021 7441 and the xbs 139345 now 00:36:23.021 --> 00:36:25.861 you have a working fingerprint sensor um in there 00:36:25.861 --> 00:36:29.121 and also i guess the zenbook a14 received some fixes so i 00:36:29.121 --> 00:36:34.621 think ubuntu was just kind of motivated to ship this pretty fast um which is 00:36:34.621 --> 00:36:40.321 great i guess also there was a fixed because uh grub was having trouble supporting 00:36:40.321 --> 00:36:44.781 systems with more than 32 gigs of ram you run into these things in the arm land 00:36:44.781 --> 00:36:47.781 because we haven't had a lot of powerful arm boxes until recently no. 00:36:47.781 --> 00:36:48.221 We have not. 00:36:48.221 --> 00:36:51.161 And then boom all of a sudden we're shipping them like real computers which 00:36:51.161 --> 00:36:55.701 is nice to see uh so if you have one of these cutting edge arm devices and you're 00:36:55.701 --> 00:36:58.361 running ubuntu you should probably be trying out the concept iso and. 00:36:58.361 --> 00:37:00.221 Maybe you're telling us how it goes because i'm real curious. 00:37:00.221 --> 00:37:02.701 Okay so i. 00:37:02.701 --> 00:37:05.081 Know what you you have clearly have a favorite here. 00:37:05.081 --> 00:37:09.981 There this one's really great um i don't know there's something about just getting 00:37:09.981 --> 00:37:12.741 a little bit out of these old computers that I'm a big fan of. 00:37:12.961 --> 00:37:16.761 And it's something that just sat for a long time, didn't see any love. 00:37:16.901 --> 00:37:23.101 I think somebody discovered it in Linux 2.6.12. They discovered this issue in June of 2005. 00:37:24.161 --> 00:37:30.361 It was a problem that was really only cropping up on vintage Macintosh 2s. 00:37:31.221 --> 00:37:31.501 What? 00:37:31.821 --> 00:37:35.621 Yep. It stemmed from an off-by-one error that caused the system to report a 00:37:35.621 --> 00:37:39.021 Mac 2 as just a Macintosh unknown. Apple Macintosh unknown. 00:37:40.131 --> 00:37:41.711 What a bummer of a bug, right? 00:37:42.731 --> 00:37:47.291 You go to all the trouble of running Linux on your Mac 2, only to not really 00:37:47.291 --> 00:37:48.291 get it to display correctly. 00:37:48.551 --> 00:37:50.351 Yeah, and the system can't recognize there's no to do with it. 00:37:50.491 --> 00:37:54.671 So a Linux hobbyist using a real Macintosh 2 discovered the bug when booting the Linux kernel. 00:37:55.251 --> 00:37:59.531 The fix was merged alongside another minor Motorola 6800 update. 00:37:59.611 --> 00:38:05.311 For us in the know, that's the M68K line, including a little conversion and 00:38:05.311 --> 00:38:08.851 update for default configurations to the strscpy function. 00:38:09.471 --> 00:38:13.471 but it's pretty cool so it fixed this old bug that's been around since 2005 00:38:13.471 --> 00:38:18.111 this off by one error that caused the old Mac 2 to be labeled as Apple Macintosh 00:38:18.111 --> 00:38:20.071 unknown now it gets properly labeled, 00:38:20.651 --> 00:38:24.711 and there's just something I think really great about seeing, 00:38:25.711 --> 00:38:30.731 Linux still getting work for these old retro systems it just worms from hurt yeah. 00:38:30.731 --> 00:38:31.611 It's just kind of cute. 00:38:31.611 --> 00:38:33.211 And while we're cutting you. 00:38:33.211 --> 00:38:37.151 Know there's still a little bit of community spirit left in this corporate kernel of ours. 00:38:37.151 --> 00:38:41.051 Yeah yeah Maybe some places don't, you know, they don't want 32-bit support 00:38:41.051 --> 00:38:44.671 anymore, but it's nice to see if you could get it working. It kind of makes me want to do it. 00:38:45.591 --> 00:38:48.151 I'd love to try to get an old Mac running Linux and then figure out a way to 00:38:48.151 --> 00:38:52.611 get a web browser or running like a web server on it, making a server. 00:38:53.131 --> 00:38:55.971 That's what I'd like to do. And then open it up to the audience. Come on. 00:38:56.251 --> 00:38:58.251 You know, serves your personal web page. 00:38:58.951 --> 00:39:04.231 So you did a little bit of digging there, Westpain, and you just found a whole 00:39:04.231 --> 00:39:07.191 bunch of links that we can throw in the notes. Some of it just like good background 00:39:07.191 --> 00:39:09.351 on the 6.16 development work cycle. 00:39:10.051 --> 00:39:13.831 But you got some specific stories and a few findings. Anything you want to highlight before we? 00:39:14.151 --> 00:39:17.251 Yeah, well, I kind of just, yeah, I did. We'll have some links for just if you 00:39:17.251 --> 00:39:21.051 want to review this stuff. And then I kind of dug through, like LWN had a great list. 00:39:21.851 --> 00:39:25.371 Phronix, of course. And then Colonel Newbies is out ahead on 6.16 too. 00:39:25.711 --> 00:39:28.511 So I just have a little lightning round of neat stuff, I noticed. 00:39:29.011 --> 00:39:32.851 To start, Core Dumps can be sent to a Unix socket instead of just being written 00:39:32.851 --> 00:39:34.811 to a file or spawning a user mode helper. 00:39:34.811 --> 00:39:38.591 and this is part of a bunch of work to try to make the core dump interface more 00:39:38.591 --> 00:39:43.611 secure because i guess there's been a flow of core dump related cves and some 00:39:43.611 --> 00:39:46.831 of the kernel developers are getting a little fed up with that so that's kind of interesting to see, 00:39:48.227 --> 00:39:49.807 You were speaking about I.O. Euring. 00:39:50.247 --> 00:39:51.447 In the bootleg pre-show. 00:39:51.607 --> 00:39:55.767 Indeed. Well, I.O. Euring can now be used to create pipes. Yeah, 00:39:55.847 --> 00:39:58.127 that's right. Super fast pipes. 00:39:58.427 --> 00:40:00.247 Hey, I like fast pipes. I'm all about fast pipes. 00:40:00.427 --> 00:40:04.307 There's now something that you can do called zoned loop block devices, 00:40:04.307 --> 00:40:08.687 which emulate a generic block device using multiple files on an existing file 00:40:08.687 --> 00:40:15.027 system to basically let you emulate zoned devices for testing, 00:40:15.307 --> 00:40:17.747 for whatever you need to do with that. That's kind of neat. 00:40:18.227 --> 00:40:20.267 Hmm. Well, that's something we might be able to play around with. 00:40:20.387 --> 00:40:24.907 Yeah, it kind of sounds fun. And, which this does not always happen with new 00:40:24.907 --> 00:40:29.547 kernel features like this, there's some pretty nice documentation that exists right out of the gate. 00:40:29.727 --> 00:40:33.647 Yeah, I was just looking at that right now. Like, get up and running with it 00:40:33.647 --> 00:40:36.467 kind of documentation and how to use it. That's fantastic. 00:40:36.827 --> 00:40:39.507 Here's something you hopefully don't actually have to watch out for, 00:40:39.607 --> 00:40:41.527 but, you know, like we say, don't break user space. 00:40:42.107 --> 00:40:46.907 6.16 is actually removing a system call, the ancient use lib system call. 00:40:46.907 --> 00:40:48.907 It's been deprecated for quite some time. 00:40:49.047 --> 00:40:54.447 It's actually been removed, and as they say, hopefully without breaking any 00:40:54.447 --> 00:40:58.947 user space applications. It's just you don't see that all the time, so watch out. 00:40:59.467 --> 00:41:03.687 I did notice there's a bunch of audio hardware support that's coming along, 00:41:03.827 --> 00:41:08.587 but including a six-channel professional DJ mixer. 00:41:08.807 --> 00:41:09.407 Whoa, really? 00:41:09.667 --> 00:41:11.707 The DJM V10 from Pioneer. 00:41:11.907 --> 00:41:14.487 Oh, let's do it, boys. We'll get a mix 00:41:14.487 --> 00:41:19.327 going. Brent could be on the drums Soundboard guy could be on the mixer. 00:41:19.327 --> 00:41:20.227 That's right This. 00:41:20.227 --> 00:41:21.287 Is actually a really nice looking. 00:41:21.287 --> 00:41:27.647 It seems like a good rig Yeah it does I mean I don't DJ but No It looked real nice on the shelf Says. 00:41:27.647 --> 00:41:28.647 It has elite sound quality. 00:41:29.467 --> 00:41:33.707 Okay this part's getting me really excited Alright There's a new API That will 00:41:33.707 --> 00:41:40.207 let virtual memory allocations Persist Across KExec handovers Oh, 00:41:40.967 --> 00:41:45.787 Yeah Uh huh This could This could this could do a lot because now you kind of 00:41:45.787 --> 00:41:49.167 have like an official way for the two kernels to like pass information. 00:41:49.407 --> 00:41:50.007 Oh man. 00:41:50.247 --> 00:41:54.187 I've been emulating this with my like persistent memory hack sort of thing for 00:41:54.187 --> 00:41:57.747 file systems but you know having it be first class in the kernel could lead 00:41:57.747 --> 00:41:58.647 to some really cool tools. 00:41:58.767 --> 00:42:01.547 When we had the disposable system that was created through KExec that was one 00:42:01.547 --> 00:42:02.947 of the things that we kind of had to work around. 00:42:04.152 --> 00:42:08.032 Now we could just have that functionality built in. We're definitely going to 00:42:08.032 --> 00:42:09.352 play with that in the future. Yeah. 00:42:09.672 --> 00:42:15.352 I found something for Brent here. Crash dump kernels can now reuse existing 00:42:15.352 --> 00:42:19.432 Lux keys, which means crash dumps can actually be made to encrypted file systems 00:42:19.432 --> 00:42:21.532 now, which was not previously possible. 00:42:21.752 --> 00:42:22.672 That is big. 00:42:22.832 --> 00:42:26.012 Yeah. And you can imagine it probably took some careful work to get that all 00:42:26.012 --> 00:42:27.632 aligned without breaking anything. 00:42:27.812 --> 00:42:29.372 It's a feature I didn't realize I needed. 00:42:29.932 --> 00:42:30.452 That's right. 00:42:30.632 --> 00:42:31.732 You need to save your dumps, Brent. 00:42:32.852 --> 00:42:36.032 Maybe you've used like the ffa notify command where 00:42:36.032 --> 00:42:39.212 you can like watch for changes in files there's now 00:42:39.212 --> 00:42:42.552 a feature where users with the cap sysadmin capability in 00:42:42.552 --> 00:42:47.212 a user namespace but no special permissions in the root namespace can watch 00:42:47.212 --> 00:42:51.932 file systems and mounts with fa notify so now you can have like containers in 00:42:51.932 --> 00:42:55.312 a user namespace they just need cap sysadmin and then they're allowed to like 00:42:55.312 --> 00:42:57.372 watch all their own files it's 00:42:57.372 --> 00:43:01.512 just beefing up the things you can do with containers securely interesting. 00:43:01.512 --> 00:43:05.292 Interesting way to go about getting that information to the container okay. 00:43:05.292 --> 00:43:12.252 Usb audio devices now support audio offloading this lets for example audio from 00:43:12.252 --> 00:43:18.592 a usb device continue to flow even when the rest of the system is sleeping what whoa yeah, 00:43:19.712 --> 00:43:24.772 so you could like basically tell it where tell the network stuff i guess like 00:43:24.772 --> 00:43:28.692 where in memory to read from the USB and have it just flow with the rest of 00:43:28.692 --> 00:43:30.552 the system, not needing to do anything. 00:43:31.492 --> 00:43:36.012 And then Greg KH pointed out that I think this takes the record for the most 00:43:36.012 --> 00:43:40.692 number of patch series, 30 plus, over the longest period of time, 00:43:41.212 --> 00:43:44.972 two plus years to get merged properly, at least for USB things. 00:43:45.252 --> 00:43:48.952 I mean, that is so fun and neat and awesome. I want to play with that. 00:43:49.472 --> 00:43:53.652 See, this is, I am getting excited and nerded out by Linux kernel features. 00:43:54.412 --> 00:43:56.732 This is a good batch This is a good batch This. 00:43:56.732 --> 00:44:01.412 One is going to be big for those AI workloads The contents of device memory 00:44:01.412 --> 00:44:06.812 Can now be sent via TCP Allowing zero copy transmission From a GPU to the wire. 00:44:07.432 --> 00:44:13.972 The contents of device memory Can now be sent via TCP That's crazy That is huge 00:44:13.972 --> 00:44:17.232 for AI workloads They're going to build on top of that immediately Yeah. 00:44:17.232 --> 00:44:19.392 I think it's been some people been asking for. 00:44:19.972 --> 00:44:23.192 Allowing zero copy transmission From a GPU to the wire, 00:44:24.704 --> 00:44:28.124 Whoa, there is, that's a big feature. 00:44:29.024 --> 00:44:34.304 Something closer to home. I know we're all, you know, we love things like WireGuard and Nebula, but. 00:44:34.444 --> 00:44:34.864 What'd you say? 00:44:35.504 --> 00:44:35.944 WireGuard. 00:44:35.984 --> 00:44:36.744 There you go. 00:44:38.064 --> 00:44:41.744 If you are an OpenVPN user, that's going to get better with 6.16 because there's 00:44:41.744 --> 00:44:47.104 now a virtual driver for offloading some operations that OpenVPN does to the kernel. 00:44:47.304 --> 00:44:52.864 That will make a difference. So the, like, is it probably encrypt stuff that's 00:44:52.864 --> 00:44:54.024 going to be offloaded to the kernel? 00:44:54.024 --> 00:44:57.044 Yeah. Let's see. I do have. 00:44:57.224 --> 00:45:05.104 I know. I should have looked myself. So they're creating a virtual driver for the data channel. I see. 00:45:06.564 --> 00:45:09.844 I guess that makes sense why it would impact large transfers. That'll be nice. 00:45:10.084 --> 00:45:11.804 Okay. You know we love eBPF here. 00:45:11.944 --> 00:45:12.164 Yeah, buddy. 00:45:12.444 --> 00:45:16.624 You can do traffic control, right? Like traffic control stuff for queuing and 00:45:16.624 --> 00:45:19.764 making your network play nice, quality of life kind of stuff. 00:45:20.244 --> 00:45:23.784 you can now implement custom traffic control queuing disciplines, 00:45:23.784 --> 00:45:28.384 basically like the algorithms for how it works, using eBPF. 00:45:28.524 --> 00:45:29.724 Oh, so on the fly, essentially. 00:45:29.824 --> 00:45:32.664 Yeah, you don't have to build a custom new kernel module that implements this 00:45:32.664 --> 00:45:36.304 queue disk sort of interface. You can now do it with eBPF. 00:45:36.424 --> 00:45:41.204 Hmm, I wonder how that could be used for dynamic rebalancing of prioritization and stuff. 00:45:41.224 --> 00:45:44.044 Maybe driven by some sort of AI that's watching your network. 00:45:44.304 --> 00:45:49.264 Or really, just like, you know, what I would love is some integration with Home 00:45:49.264 --> 00:45:53.204 Assistant where it's like, okay, streaming mode, and now the set-top box gets 00:45:53.204 --> 00:45:54.704 all the traffic prioritization. 00:45:55.084 --> 00:46:00.224 And you hit another button, and now it's like my computer for work gets all the prioritization. 00:46:00.364 --> 00:46:02.584 Wouldn't that be amazing to be able to integrate it at the Home Assistant level 00:46:02.584 --> 00:46:04.064 and then tie it to like a Z-Wave button? 00:46:04.484 --> 00:46:07.164 Yes. I love it. 00:46:08.180 --> 00:46:12.140 Okay, good news for virtualization this time around. KVM support on RISC-V, 00:46:12.320 --> 00:46:13.680 no longer experimental. 00:46:14.020 --> 00:46:14.260 Uh-oh. 00:46:14.660 --> 00:46:18.120 Huge news for Intel if you want to do confidential guests. 00:46:18.820 --> 00:46:23.580 x86 virtual machine hosts on KVM now support TDX, enabling the use of confidential 00:46:23.580 --> 00:46:27.040 guests on Intel processors, something already possible on the AMD side, 00:46:27.160 --> 00:46:31.000 but has been in the works for literally years. 00:46:31.380 --> 00:46:32.460 Quote, literally years, yeah. 00:46:32.700 --> 00:46:35.760 Uh-huh, and includes a large number of patches. 00:46:36.460 --> 00:46:40.700 And then nested virtualization support on 64-bit ARM is also now working. 00:46:40.880 --> 00:46:43.700 It's disabled by default. It's still kind of new, but that's cool. 00:46:44.440 --> 00:46:49.020 So RISC-V and ARM seeing some seriously nice virtualization improvements. Yeah. 00:46:49.400 --> 00:46:57.020 And then on a note on the way out here, there's now an AI-written shell script 00:46:57.020 --> 00:46:57.980 in the kernel source tree. 00:46:58.400 --> 00:46:58.700 Really? 00:46:58.880 --> 00:47:05.340 Uh-huh. It's called gitresolve.sh, and it was at least co-created with the use of some LLM technology. 00:47:05.760 --> 00:47:10.700 I saw, too, there was some discussion, the kernels coming up with some standards around AI tooling. 00:47:11.260 --> 00:47:13.740 Yeah, they're doing a lot of discussion around that, yeah. 00:47:13.800 --> 00:47:16.000 Yeah, so they're trying to get that sorted out, too. And it doesn't sound like 00:47:16.000 --> 00:47:19.900 the rule is no tooling, but it has to follow certain standards. 00:47:21.800 --> 00:47:25.840 As LWN says, not only does it work, this script, but it includes a full set 00:47:25.840 --> 00:47:29.840 of self-tests, something that the author noted, with understatement, 00:47:30.020 --> 00:47:33.040 is unusual for code found in the kernel's scripts directory. 00:47:33.040 --> 00:47:37.040 LLMC said, won't give you a frowny face when asked to generate tests. 00:47:37.260 --> 00:47:41.100 I noticed the restraint. There was one feature you didn't mention here. 00:47:41.520 --> 00:47:46.640 The power management subsystem has gained rust abstractions for managing the 00:47:46.640 --> 00:47:49.580 CPU frequency and operating performance points. 00:47:50.540 --> 00:47:55.420 Yeah, a whole bunch of stuff there. Also, new abstractions for core memory management operations. 00:47:55.740 --> 00:47:56.700 Yeah, and other drivers. 00:47:56.980 --> 00:48:01.680 Yeah, there's a lot of good rust work happening without a ton of fanfare just going on under the hood. 00:48:01.680 --> 00:48:06.320 It's incredible. This and this, by the way, this is the high level. 00:48:06.500 --> 00:48:12.040 This is us doing like there's all kinds of security improvements and fixes across 00:48:12.040 --> 00:48:15.940 all kinds of subsystems and new features that we didn't even touch. 00:48:15.940 --> 00:48:18.880 that's where kernel newbies can really do 00:48:18.880 --> 00:48:22.280 a heavy lift and if you really want to geek out and 00:48:22.280 --> 00:48:24.940 spend an evening reading through everything we'll link to 00:48:24.940 --> 00:48:28.520 some of the best resources in our show notes this week so you can do just that 00:48:28.520 --> 00:48:33.860 because what other project in the world is kicking ass this hard this far in 00:48:33.860 --> 00:48:38.600 and shipping stuff like this on a general platform that's available to the entire 00:48:38.600 --> 00:48:44.720 world and everyone can build on top of this massive win by the kernel team 616 is a winner. 00:48:51.422 --> 00:48:56.442 Unraid.net slash unplugged. Unleash your hardware and see what you can build. 00:48:56.602 --> 00:49:00.762 If you're ready for the ultimate homelab that'll scale with your skills and 00:49:00.762 --> 00:49:04.942 your desires as they grow, Unraid is what you have been waiting for. 00:49:05.102 --> 00:49:07.702 I know a lot of you are still very interested in virtualization. 00:49:08.282 --> 00:49:12.342 Okay, what? No, I tease. Actually, it's still great. And Unraid makes it even 00:49:12.342 --> 00:49:16.142 more approachable, not only with a nice interface, but they're sitting on top 00:49:16.142 --> 00:49:19.662 of a stack of winning Linux virtualization technologies. 00:49:19.682 --> 00:49:25.082 They give you a brilliant interface to pass through things like your GPU or other hardware. 00:49:25.282 --> 00:49:29.242 They have support for Virgil support, which means you get virtualized 3D graphics. 00:49:29.802 --> 00:49:33.442 There's some potential there when you start thinking about maybe centralizing 00:49:33.442 --> 00:49:38.602 one nice graphics card and then using your machines around the network to access 00:49:38.602 --> 00:49:41.282 that graphics card, so you only have to buy one, you know? 00:49:41.422 --> 00:49:45.122 And then also there's a whole ginormous library of community applications, 00:49:45.122 --> 00:49:48.162 including a lot around local LLMs. 00:49:48.282 --> 00:49:51.642 So if you want to deploy, there's several different options there and there's 00:49:51.642 --> 00:49:56.842 even things that will let you essentially set up an open API-like interface 00:49:56.842 --> 00:50:02.602 in front of your local LLM so you can use applications that talk to OpenAI but 00:50:02.602 --> 00:50:06.582 they're actually talking to your local LLM running on top of Unraid. 00:50:06.882 --> 00:50:11.502 And if you haven't checked out Unraid for a minute, 7.1 is taking things to the next level. 00:50:11.642 --> 00:50:15.382 With the ZFS support for one, They still support the mismatched drive sizes, 00:50:15.402 --> 00:50:19.682 so you can upgrade as you have capacity as a new drive comes into your rotation, 00:50:20.142 --> 00:50:23.642 or if you've got some dis sitting in the closet right now that aren't all the same size. 00:50:24.362 --> 00:50:26.802 And they've made a really big improvement as far as I'm concerned. 00:50:27.402 --> 00:50:29.002 Built-in wireless networking. 00:50:29.122 --> 00:50:31.382 Now, I know that's a weird one for a lot of you, but for me, 00:50:31.462 --> 00:50:32.602 where I can't run Ethernet, 00:50:33.475 --> 00:50:36.655 Huge. And the other thing that I really appreciate, I think this really kind 00:50:36.655 --> 00:50:41.615 of speaks to their whole model, is they're building in the latest Linux features, right? 00:50:41.735 --> 00:50:44.155 Faster Linux kernel ships in 7.1, for example. 00:50:44.835 --> 00:50:47.935 That's because they have a sustainable model here. They ask a reasonable price 00:50:47.935 --> 00:50:49.595 and they continue to build this thing. 00:50:49.655 --> 00:50:51.135 They've been doing that for a long time. 00:50:51.135 --> 00:50:54.775 and if you go to unraid.net slash unplugged, you can try it for free, 00:50:55.235 --> 00:50:59.035 30 days, no credit card required, a great way to support the show and a great 00:50:59.035 --> 00:51:01.695 way to scratch that itch, deploy some applications really quickly, 00:51:02.155 --> 00:51:05.735 utilize some disks you have sitting around, maybe you've got an old laptop or 00:51:05.735 --> 00:51:08.415 an old PC or maybe you want to build something. 00:51:09.435 --> 00:51:13.915 Unraid can be that secret little bit that just gets you going fast and you know 00:51:13.915 --> 00:51:18.355 you're building a reliable, scalable, long-time supportable system. 00:51:19.235 --> 00:51:22.655 So check it out. Go to unraid.net slash unplugged. 00:51:25.195 --> 00:51:29.255 Well, we have all sorts of shout outs to make this week. We have a bunch of 00:51:29.255 --> 00:51:32.815 new members to Jupyter Party and others. 00:51:33.275 --> 00:51:37.855 Nicholas G joined Jupyter Party this week, along with Hoa F. 00:51:38.315 --> 00:51:41.435 And then we have a bunch of core contributors to Linux Unplugged. 00:51:41.575 --> 00:51:48.055 Matthew Y., Brett B., and Jonathan S. Thank you for joining us in the party. 00:51:49.175 --> 00:51:52.155 Yes thank you for supporting us we really 00:51:52.155 --> 00:51:54.815 appreciate it hope you enjoy the member content check out the 00:51:54.815 --> 00:51:57.595 bootleg there is the bootleg promo code 00:51:57.595 --> 00:52:01.555 it's still active it takes 15 off the unplugged core contributor or the whole 00:52:01.555 --> 00:52:06.575 network jupiter.party membership and it's going fast there are four slots left 00:52:06.575 --> 00:52:10.615 as of this episode i went and double checked the accounting four slots left 00:52:10.615 --> 00:52:15.315 for the promo code bootleg to get in there and support the show directly and 00:52:15.315 --> 00:52:16.675 get the extra bonus member content, 00:52:18.200 --> 00:52:21.720 We have a shout-out, too, for the community this week. Wes, I think you should 00:52:21.720 --> 00:52:26.180 take this one because you were there in the thick of it right after I kind of 00:52:26.180 --> 00:52:29.880 just created a massive problem out of the blue. Just blew things up. 00:52:30.400 --> 00:52:36.940 Yeah. Well, you were trying to, I think, provide some good value for your This 00:52:36.940 --> 00:52:41.700 Week in Bitcoin members by putting on some member-exclusive stuff with Fountain's 00:52:41.700 --> 00:52:44.280 new Podcasting 2.0 sort of member content. 00:52:44.420 --> 00:52:47.300 A little bonus content. A little bonus content. but. 00:52:47.300 --> 00:52:52.240 The system required that like it also inserted a trailer in the public feed. 00:52:52.240 --> 00:52:55.120 Yeah it's it's neat because it's all feed-based so you don't 00:52:55.120 --> 00:52:58.480 have to have like a special platform but that means that 00:52:58.480 --> 00:53:01.740 all of a sudden instead of having a full episode in the feed we have like a 00:53:01.740 --> 00:53:05.480 one minute trailer and the system is designed well a new item in the feed let 00:53:05.480 --> 00:53:09.820 me go automatically create a post on the website and we don't want to post on 00:53:09.820 --> 00:53:16.420 the website for a one minute trailer yeah so um sorry everybody sorry i didn't warn you you. 00:53:16.420 --> 00:53:22.000 Like to experiment in production uh and uh thankfully uh chance our dear scraper 00:53:22.000 --> 00:53:27.560 and website co-maintainer there and scraper maintainer was quick in action to get it all fixed up. 00:53:27.560 --> 00:53:31.360 Yeah so we weren't posting silly little one-minute trailers to the jupiter broadcasting 00:53:31.360 --> 00:53:34.660 website after i just randomly had one pop up in the feed so. 00:53:34.660 --> 00:53:36.080 We are super appreciative of that. 00:53:36.080 --> 00:53:37.880 Can i post an episode at all right now yeah. 00:53:37.880 --> 00:53:38.880 It's all ready to go. 00:53:38.880 --> 00:53:42.280 Man thank you chance boy i really appreciate that. 00:53:42.280 --> 00:53:44.820 What i heard you ask there was can i break it again this week. 00:53:44.820 --> 00:53:46.500 Will it work will it work. 00:53:46.500 --> 00:53:49.520 We do have a couple pieces of mail 00:53:49.520 --> 00:53:53.860 from the mail bag here that we'd like to push to the front one the first one 00:53:53.860 --> 00:53:58.040 here from aiden hey all i like the discussion on managing nixos configs in the 00:53:58.040 --> 00:54:03.220 last episode and wanted to share the method to my madness i keep all my configs 00:54:03.220 --> 00:54:08.700 in a flakes repo on github well done which is managing around a dozen hosts. 00:54:09.280 --> 00:54:15.300 I keep my user preferences like shells, aliases, GNOME, configuration extensions, etc. 00:54:15.840 --> 00:54:21.480 all in a file for my user and each host has its own file to add unique settings like the hostname. 00:54:22.120 --> 00:54:26.680 I'm using it to manage my home server as well as several workstations and gaming 00:54:26.680 --> 00:54:30.400 setups used by both myself and some of my family members. 00:54:30.800 --> 00:54:34.880 It makes pushing out software to computers in the house incredibly easy, 00:54:35.080 --> 00:54:39.520 and I can get a new computer added to it with just a short commit and passing 00:54:39.520 --> 00:54:41.660 the flake name to NixOS install. 00:54:41.960 --> 00:54:44.320 And here's a link to that repo. 00:54:44.760 --> 00:54:47.560 This seems like the setup I basically need to get on. 00:54:47.680 --> 00:54:48.540 And now you can. 00:54:48.720 --> 00:54:50.220 I really should. So... 00:54:51.041 --> 00:54:56.161 I have really resisted this kind of thing, but the idea that I could have a 00:54:56.161 --> 00:54:59.361 system where maybe I make a few changes in a config file, 00:54:59.821 --> 00:55:04.601 commit that to my Git repo, and then my downstream systems just assimilate that 00:55:04.601 --> 00:55:07.641 change and adapt maybe even automatically in the background, 00:55:07.981 --> 00:55:10.801 and build a new image, and the next time I reboot I just have the changes. 00:55:10.961 --> 00:55:16.021 Did I hear you say you're going to start using Git to finally track your Nexo as config? 00:55:17.381 --> 00:55:20.361 I really should, because right now I just keep everything in my home directory. 00:55:21.601 --> 00:55:22.701 It's easy to get started. 00:55:22.701 --> 00:55:30.141 Uh it you know it's like it's like setting up mqtt i just i just don't want 00:55:30.141 --> 00:55:33.821 to have to do it i just i want it to be simple enough where i don't have to 00:55:33.821 --> 00:55:37.381 you know i love the days where i could take the whole system copy to a floppy 00:55:37.381 --> 00:55:40.881 disk and then i could take that to another system and copy it over and i'm done well. 00:55:40.881 --> 00:55:41.621 You can do that. 00:55:41.621 --> 00:55:42.461 You just have to. 00:55:42.461 --> 00:55:43.741 Get a floppy that works. 00:55:43.741 --> 00:55:46.401 I'm thinking that's what i should do wouldn't that be funny if i just went hard 00:55:46.401 --> 00:55:48.661 the other direction this goes back three. 00:55:48.661 --> 00:55:50.641 Separate floppies at all times with your. 00:55:50.641 --> 00:55:53.081 Next So that's what I revision. I just, yeah. 00:55:53.841 --> 00:55:55.121 You got a little label maker. 00:55:55.361 --> 00:55:59.541 The problem is the era of the floppy disk, as we discovered when we did a little 00:55:59.541 --> 00:56:00.821 experimenting, is over. 00:56:01.661 --> 00:56:05.441 USB floppy disks do not show up as a traditional floppy drive. 00:56:05.601 --> 00:56:10.681 They show up as more like a, almost like a CD-ROM or a virtual USB storage device. 00:56:10.881 --> 00:56:12.241 I hear tapes are still. 00:56:13.361 --> 00:56:15.461 Dude, I love tapes. I'm all about that. 00:56:16.721 --> 00:56:20.001 I just want to say Aiden this comes at a perfect time because I stayed up way 00:56:20.001 --> 00:56:23.361 too late last night with my brother trying to figure out how to do a multi host 00:56:23.361 --> 00:56:27.901 Nixos flake so thank you for saving us dude. 00:56:30.401 --> 00:56:34.821 This is like when he repaired the van door and didn't include me it's like bro 00:56:34.821 --> 00:56:38.881 this is like what we bro up about and then like he just bros out without us. 00:56:39.481 --> 00:56:41.801 I guess with his original bro yeah. 00:56:41.801 --> 00:56:43.961 You're right about that well I was probably tossing and turning. 00:56:44.841 --> 00:56:46.101 Okay, I'll try next time. 00:56:47.040 --> 00:56:53.380 All right, Kmog wrote in, Remember here, re-immutable use using NixOS everywhere at home. 00:56:53.520 --> 00:56:56.760 I'm also a Nix packages maintainer for the bucket software. Well, 00:56:56.860 --> 00:56:57.760 thank you. That's awesome. 00:56:58.080 --> 00:57:01.040 I am looking at perhaps Fedora Core for work. 00:57:01.300 --> 00:57:05.560 I think it would work as a great tailscale subnet router. Since those machines 00:57:05.560 --> 00:57:09.180 have one job and being Red Hat adjacent, I can get corporate buy-in. 00:57:09.300 --> 00:57:13.640 As far as NixOS config version control, I put a really generic file on the machine 00:57:13.640 --> 00:57:16.800 that imports from my personal Git server using SSH. Oh, neat. 00:57:17.320 --> 00:57:20.400 This way I can work with the configuration from anywhere and simply push the 00:57:20.400 --> 00:57:24.760 new config to the server. I really don't care what happens to the local at scenics OS folder. 00:57:25.040 --> 00:57:29.000 That's a great setup too. I like that KMogged. And thank you for being a member too. 00:57:29.620 --> 00:57:34.900 Okay, I need to up my game. I can feel I'm old manning it here. I can feel it. I can tell. 00:57:35.980 --> 00:57:38.140 There's something about it that just makes me want to lean into it. 00:57:38.260 --> 00:57:42.200 I am probably required at this point just to note you could also do that dream 00:57:42.200 --> 00:57:46.440 you described using a, you know, Bootsy OCI system to push out stuff. 00:57:46.440 --> 00:57:51.440 Well, yeah. Yeah, but still, it all comes back to having something in like a central repository. 00:57:51.720 --> 00:57:52.080 Yeah, true. 00:57:52.240 --> 00:57:56.180 It does. It's just right now it lives in my home directory. Thank you everybody 00:57:56.180 --> 00:58:01.080 who emailed us this week, linuxunplugged.com slash contact if you'd like to send us an email. 00:58:02.140 --> 00:58:06.380 And we did get some boost to support this show, which is direct support from 00:58:06.380 --> 00:58:09.980 our audience. And we start with our baller booster this week. 00:58:10.520 --> 00:58:15.460 And it's a baller indeed. A-A-Ron comes in with 100,000 sets. 00:58:20.160 --> 00:58:23.640 All right. Thank you very much. That's a fantastic boost. 00:58:31.088 --> 00:58:36.828 Made our day when we saw that one come in. Aaron writes, I believe Home Assistant 00:58:36.828 --> 00:58:41.808 has a built-in migration tool for the Zigbee coordinators to make it easy to upgrade. 00:58:41.968 --> 00:58:44.668 Since you'll have to buy a coordinator if you get new hardware anyway, 00:58:44.868 --> 00:58:49.708 maybe get the coordinator first, then migrate to the new coordinator using your 00:58:49.708 --> 00:58:55.228 HA Yellow, then theoretically all you would need to do is plug it into the new hardware. 00:58:56.028 --> 00:58:59.628 Not so sure about Z-Wave or Matter, but I bet they would be similar. 00:59:00.148 --> 00:59:02.408 Anyway, it's been a while since I boosted, so here's a little extra show, 00:59:02.428 --> 00:59:05.528 some love. Sad to see self-hosted go, but happy to have some of those memories. 00:59:06.128 --> 00:59:11.648 Stay savvy. P.S. What would it take to get my own soundbite? Well, I think... 00:59:12.988 --> 00:59:16.468 I think you got it, buddy. I think you got it. That one got you too, 00:59:16.848 --> 00:59:19.588 my friend. That one got you too. You keep boosting, we'll keep them on the soundboard. 00:59:20.528 --> 00:59:25.308 Thank you so much for that idea. That's totally how I'm going to do it. 00:59:25.448 --> 00:59:26.988 Yeah, that sounds like a great way. 00:59:27.228 --> 00:59:30.348 That's totally how I'm going to do my migration, Aaron. I really appreciate 00:59:30.348 --> 00:59:33.588 that. Thank you very much for the boost. 00:59:34.248 --> 00:59:38.688 Turd Ferguson boosts in with 22,222 cents. 00:59:42.648 --> 00:59:48.168 Ooh, a bit off topic here. On again, off again, Star Trek fan, but I know y'all go deep. 00:59:48.548 --> 00:59:52.288 What are your thoughts on the new Star Trek Academy series? 00:59:52.588 --> 00:59:55.648 It's never off topic, Wes, although we'll try to keep it brief for those that 00:59:55.648 --> 00:59:59.788 don't care. I would sum it up as a Star Trek series nobody asked for. 01:00:01.768 --> 01:00:03.548 Brutal but right I think. 01:00:03.548 --> 01:00:08.088 But I think if you enjoyed Discovery you're probably going to enjoy this same universe it sure looks. 01:00:08.088 --> 01:00:09.488 Similar from the like. 01:00:09.488 --> 01:00:14.848 You know the production we're going to watch it oh yeah we're going to watch it which Star. 01:00:14.848 --> 01:00:16.828 Trek have you not watched section 31. 01:00:16.828 --> 01:00:22.968 Yeah if we watch section 31 we're going to watch Academy right it's going to happen so I. 01:00:22.968 --> 01:00:24.368 Don't know if anyone else wants to boost it. 01:00:24.368 --> 01:00:26.348 Thank you turd appreciate the boost Well. 01:00:26.448 --> 01:00:29.388 Derivation dingus comes in with 20,000 sets. 01:00:34.947 --> 01:00:38.827 Well, I almost tried Nebula, but I actually just converted all my stuff from 01:00:38.827 --> 01:00:41.787 WireGuard to a self-hosted NetBird. 01:00:42.507 --> 01:00:46.427 If you guys had consulted with me first, I'd have probably chosen Nebula, 01:00:46.547 --> 01:00:48.667 but at least it'll be interesting to compare the two. 01:00:49.307 --> 01:00:54.987 With WireGuard, I kept ending up in situations where DNS alone couldn't quite do everything I needed. 01:00:55.267 --> 01:00:59.827 NetBird redirects DNS queries to itself, which allows it to respond to your 01:00:59.827 --> 01:01:03.847 private network or for them to the local DNS provider. 01:01:03.847 --> 01:01:09.087 and that means I can refer to my stuff by name and it doesn't break the software 01:01:09.087 --> 01:01:12.267 on my work PC. What a time to be alive. 01:01:12.647 --> 01:01:12.987 Woo! 01:01:13.707 --> 01:01:18.667 I really like it so far. It's much better than handling as many WireGuard keys as I was previously. 01:01:19.027 --> 01:01:22.127 Does Nebula do something similar to NetBird with DNS? 01:01:23.107 --> 01:01:27.607 I wonder, Wes, could you do what I do with my TailScale network is I run now 01:01:27.607 --> 01:01:29.647 a DNS server in my TailNet. 01:01:29.847 --> 01:01:32.467 Could I, like, on one of my lighthouses, just run a DNS server? 01:01:32.467 --> 01:01:35.667 Hey thanks for telling us about your setup uh self-hosted netbird 01:01:35.667 --> 01:01:39.027 is a great option as well for sure the nebula dns 01:01:39.027 --> 01:01:43.567 is newer and does not do as fancy stuff so like netbird acts as the dns and 01:01:43.567 --> 01:01:48.187 then can kind of redirect things nebula only responds right now to things for 01:01:48.187 --> 01:01:51.967 that it knows about so it works better in the situation you're describing where 01:01:51.967 --> 01:01:56.447 you have a an upstream dns that can delegate and return responses you know that 01:01:56.447 --> 01:01:58.247 it learns about a proxy from nebula having. 01:01:58.247 --> 01:02:03.287 Tried both systems, I prefer one where I have slightly more control. 01:02:03.567 --> 01:02:07.047 I do kind of end up running a DNS server like that anyway, so it's nice when 01:02:07.047 --> 01:02:07.947 it's incorporated. Yeah. 01:02:08.187 --> 01:02:11.347 Yeah. But I love hearing about people's setups, so keep sending them in. 01:02:11.407 --> 01:02:13.747 And thanks, derivation. It's good to hear from you. 01:02:14.387 --> 01:02:17.947 Fuzzy Mistboard is here with 4,444 SATs. 01:02:19.096 --> 01:02:22.816 This is a great episode. I enjoyed the self-hosted discussion and some interesting mini hardware. 01:02:23.096 --> 01:02:26.616 I just made the switch to LinkWard in about a week before you found it. 01:02:26.856 --> 01:02:30.716 And by the way, it's great. I've pulled all the Z-Wave and Zigbee manuals for 01:02:30.716 --> 01:02:33.356 my devices as well as manuals for my motherboards. 01:02:33.656 --> 01:02:36.716 Oh, that's such a great idea. And all the other hardware I want to preserve. 01:02:37.176 --> 01:02:40.436 LinkWard made it super easy to pull them in, tag, and organize. 01:02:40.956 --> 01:02:45.156 Okay, that's an excellent experience report. I haven't set it up yet, 01:02:45.276 --> 01:02:47.876 but it's really somewhere on that to-do list. 01:02:47.876 --> 01:02:51.076 Why did I not think of this? Like, literally, so my wife just got a juicer. 01:02:51.736 --> 01:02:56.956 And I'm like, well, what do we do with these manuals? I can probably find PDFs, but do I keep them? 01:02:57.096 --> 01:02:58.896 And she's like, well, I really only want the recipe book. You know, 01:02:58.916 --> 01:03:02.896 it's like a system that just is designed to pull in PDFs and organize and tag them. 01:03:03.176 --> 01:03:05.876 That's what I need. That's great, Fuzzy. Thank you. 01:03:07.156 --> 01:03:08.356 I got to really get it going for her. 01:03:09.376 --> 01:03:11.436 Outdoor Geek boosts in with 5,000 sets. 01:03:14.236 --> 01:03:25.556 this zigbee dongle linked contains the same soc as the ha yellow oh sonoff zigbee 3.0 usb dongle. 01:03:25.556 --> 01:03:32.296 Well well well at 17 you guys are coming through thank you. 01:03:32.296 --> 01:03:36.536 For migration i would make sure the firmware versions match firmware can be 01:03:36.536 --> 01:03:41.416 flashed i bought this dongle a year ago but only just plugged it into my Pi 4 home assistant. 01:03:41.656 --> 01:03:46.196 I've seen some chatter about bad knockoffs, so try and buy from a reputable source. 01:03:46.776 --> 01:03:49.116 Outdoor geek, that's very, very valuable. Thank you. 01:03:52.759 --> 01:03:59.179 We have some more boosts here. One from MG1010104444s. 01:04:01.879 --> 01:04:04.539 A couple here just saying setting up AlbiHub. 01:04:05.019 --> 01:04:08.879 Hey, right on. That's the self-hosted route to go. 01:04:09.699 --> 01:04:14.759 AlbiHub just had a new release, and it is even easier to manage than ever now. 01:04:14.919 --> 01:04:19.619 If you want to dip your toes, it's a technical deep dive that I think you'll find very rewarding. 01:04:20.199 --> 01:04:22.739 Well done, MG. Thanks for the boost. 01:04:23.659 --> 01:04:27.539 Not a zip code comes in with 4,321 sats. 01:04:29.039 --> 01:04:35.539 That's right. On the little red dot, just the zip code tells you where to go, just on the little dot. 01:04:35.679 --> 01:04:38.559 So I'm not boosting a zip code, but nonetheless, looking forward to episode 01:04:38.559 --> 01:04:41.319 700 to see how many local listeners we have. 01:04:41.599 --> 01:04:44.399 Or if you're in Singapore, please boost in. 01:04:44.579 --> 01:04:48.239 Okay, so this is a response to our not a zip code from last week. 01:04:48.279 --> 01:04:49.199 I think I said Singapore. 01:04:49.399 --> 01:04:49.579 Yeah. 01:04:49.879 --> 01:04:50.439 I think I did. 01:04:50.439 --> 01:04:54.419 Somehow, I guess we got it right. Because this was where it was like per building, 01:04:54.599 --> 01:04:56.419 right? The code told you the building? 01:04:56.579 --> 01:04:59.259 Yes. I've been wanting to visit Singapore for some reason. I don't know. 01:04:59.319 --> 01:05:02.559 I have a buddy who went there and just raved about it. 01:05:02.719 --> 01:05:05.259 And now ever since, it was like two years ago, ever since I've been. 01:05:05.779 --> 01:05:06.479 Singapore meetup. 01:05:06.739 --> 01:05:11.119 Oh, my gosh. Also, we should have a hell of a party for 700. 01:05:11.779 --> 01:05:14.419 700. We should have a hell of a party. 01:05:14.439 --> 01:05:16.199 Someone do the math of when that lands. 01:05:17.399 --> 01:05:19.279 Oof. Thanks. Appreciate that. Not a zip. 01:05:20.439 --> 01:05:25.379 Caffeinated Linux comes in with 4,242 sats, 4242. 01:05:30.339 --> 01:05:34.259 Boosting in with my immutable experience, I've been using Fedora Silverblue 01:05:34.259 --> 01:05:38.899 on everything but my main workstation for a few years now. It's been a great experience. 01:05:39.179 --> 01:05:44.579 Smooth updates, Flatpak apps work great, and I only have a few packages overlaid for some drivers. 01:05:44.819 --> 01:05:49.879 I was even able to rebase a spare laptop from Silverblue to Cosmic Atomic using 01:05:49.879 --> 01:05:54.959 one command and after a reboot i was ready to go in cosmic love the show keep 01:05:54.959 --> 01:06:00.459 up the great work p.s uh all 4242 sats earned by listening on fountain. 01:06:00.459 --> 01:06:05.739 Very nice it's impressive um i also have rebased a couple of times i've rebased 01:06:05.739 --> 01:06:10.419 three times now and it's worked great i really love that it's a it's something 01:06:10.419 --> 01:06:15.359 that's just so slick about this experience and it's it makes distro hopping seem old. 01:06:15.679 --> 01:06:19.379 Because you can rebase to an entire plasma system, cosmic system, 01:06:19.499 --> 01:06:23.139 gnome system, but your user data and your applications and everything the way 01:06:23.139 --> 01:06:24.319 you have that configured remains. 01:06:24.499 --> 01:06:28.379 No reinstall or super careful partitioning or anything like that. 01:06:30.039 --> 01:06:34.279 Well, a dude who's just trying stuff tried to send us a row of ducks and succeeded. 01:06:36.428 --> 01:06:39.708 Yes, this is the Homelab content we were promised. 01:06:40.188 --> 01:06:43.728 I'm one of those who dearly missed the self-hosted show, and I'm glad it is 01:06:43.728 --> 01:06:49.308 living on through nods to self-hosting in Linux Unplugged. Keep being awesome, lads. 01:06:49.468 --> 01:06:50.168 Well, thank you. 01:06:50.348 --> 01:06:54.328 P.S. I'd love if more of the picks were useful. Self-hosted apps. 01:06:56.068 --> 01:06:57.028 The way you said that. 01:06:57.028 --> 01:06:59.908 Quit with the two-y crap and give us self-hosted picks. 01:07:00.128 --> 01:07:03.508 Yeah, just the way you said that. It would be great if they're useful. 01:07:03.548 --> 01:07:05.988 We only do un-useful self-hosted apps. 01:07:05.988 --> 01:07:09.048 Okay, so I don't have a bunch of self-hosted ones, but I do think they're going 01:07:09.048 --> 01:07:10.468 to be useful. But I agree. 01:07:11.208 --> 01:07:13.328 More and more, I've been like, well, you know, we don't need a whole segment 01:07:13.328 --> 01:07:15.568 on this, but we'll definitely put this in the pick. And a lot of them are some 01:07:15.568 --> 01:07:16.828 of the self-hosted pick stuff. 01:07:17.068 --> 01:07:17.968 Yeah, that's a good idea. 01:07:18.208 --> 01:07:22.688 That community, it kind of blooms lots of good stuff, and then it kind of goes 01:07:22.688 --> 01:07:25.628 quiet for a little bit, and then lots of new stuff blooms. So it's really fun to watch. 01:07:26.268 --> 01:07:30.008 Thank you, everybody, who supported the show. Aaron, you did a heavy lift this week. 01:07:31.768 --> 01:07:34.428 Thank you very much. And thank you, everybody, who streamed. 01:07:34.428 --> 01:07:38.968 We had 24 of you stream as you listen, stacking 18,439 sats collectively. 01:07:39.428 --> 01:07:43.168 Not our biggest number there, but I appreciate that. When you combine that with 01:07:43.168 --> 01:07:49.048 our boost, the show eked out 185,545 sats. 01:07:50.728 --> 01:07:55.608 Those go directly to the host, to editor Drew, and to the podcast creator and the podcast index. 01:07:55.808 --> 01:08:00.828 The splits are defined in the RSS feed, so you can essentially see the contract 01:08:00.828 --> 01:08:04.728 in XML, and it goes directly to everybody involved. It's just a great way to 01:08:04.728 --> 01:08:07.368 support each individual production and get your message on here. 01:08:07.788 --> 01:08:11.828 Fountain.fm makes it really easy to get started, and they're about to release 01:08:11.828 --> 01:08:16.748 a banger of an update that'll include ways to boost even easier around the world. 01:08:16.928 --> 01:08:20.488 But of course, you can go the self-hosted route with AlbiHub or skip all of 01:08:20.488 --> 01:08:23.728 that by becoming a member and putting your support on autopilot. 01:08:24.288 --> 01:08:29.048 linuxunplugged.com slash membership for this show or jupiter.party for the whole network. 01:08:48.428 --> 01:08:51.348 Now we do have some of those picks to get to before we get out of here. 01:08:51.708 --> 01:08:54.548 And this first one is Tony. 01:08:54.948 --> 01:08:56.768 Tooney? I don't know. 01:08:56.788 --> 01:08:57.568 I don't know. Tony? 01:08:57.808 --> 01:08:59.488 Damn it. I hate that we have to do this so often. 01:08:59.568 --> 01:09:00.428 Go with Tooney. Come on. 01:09:00.528 --> 01:09:03.128 It's not this hard in the commercial world. It really isn't. 01:09:03.128 --> 01:09:05.488 because marketing forces them to use words people know. 01:09:05.708 --> 01:09:09.188 But it's a fast, lightweight terminal, note-taking app. 01:09:09.628 --> 01:09:11.368 Yeah, that's right. How about... 01:09:12.045 --> 01:09:17.485 Sleek TUI interface built with Bubble T and Go, which is a great library for this kind of thing. 01:09:18.005 --> 01:09:23.825 Markdown rendering right there, file navigation, and native NeoVim editing right in your terminal. 01:09:24.065 --> 01:09:29.625 Pretty nice, Wes. Pretty nice. And then on the other side of the spectrum, oh, MIT licensed. 01:09:30.105 --> 01:09:34.245 On the other side of the spectrum, we have something built around Etsy Sync. 01:09:34.725 --> 01:09:39.425 This may ring a bell. It was recently, semi-recently open sourced. 01:09:39.425 --> 01:09:42.485 It's interesting encrypted synchronization technology. 01:09:42.785 --> 01:09:47.085 And Etsy Sync KNotes is built on top of that encrypted syncing technology. 01:09:47.305 --> 01:09:51.585 And the Notes application uses a connection to one of your Etsy Sync accounts. 01:09:51.685 --> 01:09:55.645 It can be self-hosted or one of their hosted ones. And you can create notes, 01:09:55.765 --> 01:09:59.105 edit notes, search across your notes, sort the notes, display notes, 01:09:59.105 --> 01:10:01.125 all the things you expect with Notes. 01:10:01.705 --> 01:10:06.185 But the nice feature is it's actually an application taking advantage of Etsy 01:10:06.185 --> 01:10:09.705 Sync. and if that's something you've been following or interested to see somebody 01:10:09.705 --> 01:10:12.465 develop software around, we're actually starting to see it now. 01:10:12.825 --> 01:10:15.625 That was the big thing I was waiting to see. I mean, there's a couple of core 01:10:15.625 --> 01:10:18.745 applications they already have and they're really cool, but this Notes app, 01:10:18.865 --> 01:10:22.685 it's lean, it's mean, but it's taking advantage of this pretty powerful sync technology. 01:10:23.245 --> 01:10:29.325 I feel like sometimes with the picks, we can tell maybe some themes on what 01:10:29.325 --> 01:10:31.585 is happening behind the scenes at JB. 01:10:31.965 --> 01:10:35.925 So are one of you looking for a new Notes app? Is that what's going on here? 01:10:36.445 --> 01:10:39.425 I'm thinking about it. I'm still living the Obsidian lifestyle, 01:10:39.425 --> 01:10:45.045 but I find that what I tend to do is find a leaner, meaner app to just create 01:10:45.045 --> 01:10:49.285 my notes, and then later on I sit down and copy and paste it into Obsidian, and it's got to go. 01:10:49.405 --> 01:10:51.885 You know that's wild, right? Why would you ever do that? 01:10:51.925 --> 01:10:52.465 It's got to go. 01:10:52.585 --> 01:10:54.945 So you need a plug-in that auto-imports your... 01:10:54.945 --> 01:10:59.225 There you go. There you go. Yeah. If anybody has some suggestions for something 01:10:59.225 --> 01:11:03.105 that works on desktop, mobile, iOS, Android, and syncs, 01:11:03.985 --> 01:11:09.025 i mean and i did not evernote not obsidian you know that's why i was looking 01:11:09.025 --> 01:11:13.205 at etsy sync i don't think it's there for me obsidian is a hard one to replace 01:11:13.205 --> 01:11:17.245 you know because those community plugins i love those sweet sweet community plugins can. 01:11:17.245 --> 01:11:20.965 You remind us what it is about obsidian that has you looking elsewhere. 01:11:20.965 --> 01:11:26.105 Well i think i'm parted so i pay so much per year for the sync and then it feels 01:11:26.105 --> 01:11:28.525 kind of like a heavy application so i don't load it very much, 01:11:29.085 --> 01:11:32.005 if i didn't use any ios devices it'd be fine but 01:11:32.005 --> 01:11:35.045 when i'm working on the car i like to use the ipad for taking notes 01:11:35.045 --> 01:11:39.725 but then when i don't have the ipad i end up using like the garage computer 01:11:39.725 --> 01:11:42.945 or my phone and i just like open up a text editor and just take the notes on 01:11:42.945 --> 01:11:46.565 my phone it's just it's just not working for me something has to be on the phone 01:11:46.565 --> 01:11:52.405 i you know i don't know and i've tried next cloud notes too maybe it's me i think the problem is me, 01:11:53.767 --> 01:11:59.887 I'm not quite willing to give up yet, you know? And I can't just give in to, what is it that you love? 01:12:00.267 --> 01:12:00.587 Logseek. 01:12:00.687 --> 01:12:01.567 Yeah, Logseek. 01:12:01.767 --> 01:12:04.207 I think I have a new beta mobile app, actually, I need to try. 01:12:04.467 --> 01:12:08.187 Yeah, you and your... I said to overstruggle, meanwhile, you're just over there 01:12:08.187 --> 01:12:10.567 loving your Logseek. Drives me crazy. 01:12:10.567 --> 01:12:12.207 I'm not going to say it's perfect, but I do like it. 01:12:12.527 --> 01:12:15.067 And Brent's just using pen and paper, right? 01:12:15.227 --> 01:12:16.027 It's strapped to my leg. 01:12:16.047 --> 01:12:17.707 Yeah, but he makes the paper himself. 01:12:18.047 --> 01:12:18.587 He does. 01:12:18.707 --> 01:12:19.747 From Canadian trees. 01:12:20.707 --> 01:12:21.807 Oh, I thought it was toilet paper. 01:12:22.167 --> 01:12:23.587 Oh, okay. Canadian toilet paper. 01:12:24.107 --> 01:12:26.867 All right, well, let us know what you thought about the FlatHub-only desktop 01:12:26.867 --> 01:12:29.867 app future, and particularly for you. 01:12:30.067 --> 01:12:32.347 What tools, what workflow would break for you? 01:12:32.887 --> 01:12:37.127 And if app packaging did stop being a differentiator for distributions, 01:12:37.467 --> 01:12:38.607 what would make you pick? 01:12:38.687 --> 01:12:42.787 Fedora over Debian, or whatever the district might be, say, in a few years, 01:12:42.827 --> 01:12:45.027 if this future were to materialize. 01:12:45.107 --> 01:12:46.127 And why is it Arch Linux? 01:12:48.787 --> 01:12:51.387 Wes, leave him with a hot tip before we go. Give him a little more you know. 01:12:51.387 --> 01:12:56.347 Oh, yeah. Well, you might not know, but you should. We're a podcasting 2.0 podcast, 01:12:56.347 --> 01:13:00.687 which means we have chapters so you can skip right to the content you like and 01:13:00.687 --> 01:13:02.827 transcripts. Search it. 01:13:03.727 --> 01:13:07.287 Use it to display. Follow along. Skip even finer detail. 01:13:07.287 --> 01:13:10.187 Yeah, we try to link everything we mentioned, but maybe we mentioned something 01:13:10.187 --> 01:13:13.347 we didn't link. You can probably get the name of it or close to it in that transcript. 01:13:13.667 --> 01:13:14.767 That can be pretty useful. 01:13:17.407 --> 01:13:19.687 See, a little listener pro tip for you right there at the end. 01:13:20.007 --> 01:13:21.747 Also, one last pro tip. We're live. 01:13:25.587 --> 01:13:30.527 Go ahead and make it a Tuesday on a Sunday over at jblive.tv or jblive.fm. 01:13:30.787 --> 01:13:34.127 Kick it up a notch, grab yourself a beverage, and join our mumble room. 01:13:34.307 --> 01:13:37.107 Our virtual lug gets together around 10 a.m. Pacific. 01:13:37.687 --> 01:13:41.547 You can get it over at jupyterbroadcasting.com slash calendar in your time and 01:13:41.547 --> 01:13:45.987 our mumble server info that's over at jupyterbroadcasting.com slash mumble. 01:13:46.167 --> 01:13:49.687 Now, links to everything we talked about today, well we try to put all of that 01:13:49.687 --> 01:13:52.187 at linuxunplugged.com slash 625. 01:13:52.747 --> 01:13:56.407 You'll find other links like our contact form, the RSS feed, 01:13:56.847 --> 01:14:00.127 a bunch of other things over there, like the membership as well over at the 01:14:00.127 --> 01:14:01.447 linuxunplugged.com website. 01:14:01.627 --> 01:14:04.447 Thank you so much for joining us on this week's episode of the Unplugged program. 01:14:04.687 --> 01:14:06.207 We'll see you right back here next Sunday. 01:14:57.296 --> 01:15:01.496 Uh breaking checking in from the past news someone just checked in from the 01:15:01.496 --> 01:15:08.016 past yeah uh simulated snakes checked in via matrix checking in from the past 01:15:08.016 --> 01:15:11.236 um we're not calling it the bang bus anymore are we. 01:15:11.236 --> 01:15:16.276 Oh yes yes yes i love the time travel check-ins thank you everybody who continues 01:15:16.276 --> 01:15:20.976 to do that just if you're listening in the past now you know weeks or months 01:15:20.976 --> 01:15:24.476 after this episode came out try to check in in real time with us and let us 01:15:24.476 --> 01:15:28.556 know where in the timeline you We'll be listening from the future.