WEBVTT 00:00:11.360 --> 00:00:15.917 Hello, friends, and welcome back to your weekly Linux talk show. My name is Chris. 00:00:15.917 --> 00:00:16.737 My name is Wes. 00:00:16.737 --> 00:00:17.612 And my name is Brent. 00:00:18.222 --> 00:00:23.477 Hello, gentlemen. Coming up on the show today, the KDE AI debate has blown up 00:00:23.477 --> 00:00:29.687 just as the project was trying to draw the line between useful assistance and low-effort slop. 00:00:30.047 --> 00:00:33.437 And as KDE turns 30, we'll look at the next chapter for Plasma, 00:00:33.768 --> 00:00:37.744 and it's big, plus why we think the next systemdick could be worth paying attention to. 00:00:38.133 --> 00:00:39.947 Then we're going to round out the show with some great boosts, 00:00:40.247 --> 00:00:46.684 some picks. And I cannot wait to tell you about this pick. I have wanted something like this for years. 00:00:46.899 --> 00:00:49.767 And then, of course, we've got a lot more in there. And to help us get to all 00:00:49.767 --> 00:00:52.667 of that, we've got to bring in our virtual lug. Hello, Mumble Room. 00:00:52.667 --> 00:00:56.930 Hey, Chris. Hey, howdy. Hello, Brian. Hello. 00:00:57.823 --> 00:01:00.247 Hello. Thank you for joining us. And hello up there in the quiet listening and 00:01:00.247 --> 00:01:01.235 everybody watching live. 00:01:01.671 --> 00:01:05.543 And hello to our friends over at Defined Networking. 00:01:05.862 --> 00:01:10.570 Go to defined.net slash unplugged and meet Manage Nebula from Defined Networking. 00:01:10.935 --> 00:01:14.337 This decentralized VPN is the one we use. It's the one we love because it's 00:01:14.337 --> 00:01:19.097 built on top of the Nebula platform. And I think it's perfect because I've used 00:01:19.097 --> 00:01:22.714 it between just two machines and between lots of machines. 00:01:22.975 --> 00:01:26.522 It was built to connect Slack's global infrastructure across the world. 00:01:26.986 --> 00:01:29.639 And it is very, very fast, resilient. 00:01:30.469 --> 00:01:34.027 And I love that you can self-host the lighthouses, which mean you manage the 00:01:34.027 --> 00:01:36.768 network. You can manage the authentication. No big tech sign-on. 00:01:37.226 --> 00:01:40.957 Strong encryption. No single point of failure. That's extremely robust. 00:01:40.957 --> 00:01:45.197 And now, I don't know if we've mentioned this, but Define Networking's API makes 00:01:45.197 --> 00:01:48.854 it easy to give your Nebula host friendly DNS names automatically, 00:01:49.184 --> 00:01:52.847 and it keeps those records synced as your network changes. Ping it via API. 00:01:52.847 --> 00:01:54.657 I think that's something folks have been wanting. 00:01:54.657 --> 00:02:00.573 Use the API. It's the kind of infrastructure you can actually own and then build on top of long term. 00:02:00.909 --> 00:02:06.006 Try it out. 100 hosts for free. No credit card required. You go to Define.net slash unplugged. 00:02:06.494 --> 00:02:09.257 That's right. Define.net slash unplugged. 00:02:12.653 --> 00:02:16.830 So it's kind of a KDE week on the show. And, you know, both you boys are very, 00:02:16.830 --> 00:02:18.090 very happy Plasma users. 00:02:18.090 --> 00:02:20.970 And I've used KDE for ages and ages and ages. 00:02:20.970 --> 00:02:24.500 Got it running raw here. And I was reflecting early on, you know, 00:02:24.500 --> 00:02:29.250 putting my wife then, Angela, at the time on, like, I think version two. 00:02:29.250 --> 00:02:32.020 It might have, I don't even know if we were still calling it the K desktop or 00:02:32.020 --> 00:02:33.313 the cool desktop environment. 00:02:34.021 --> 00:02:36.442 And it was rough, but it showed so much potential. 00:02:37.463 --> 00:02:42.293 And so this is a really great week because we're nearing 30 years of KDE. 00:02:42.723 --> 00:02:48.760 And Plasma 6.8 is really looking sharp. And it's kind of their flag saying, 00:02:49.607 --> 00:02:53.830 we are an all Weyland desktop as of the 6.8 release. 00:02:53.830 --> 00:02:59.060 Yeah, I mean, you mentioned like almost 30 years. That means almost 30 years of running on X11. 00:02:59.060 --> 00:02:59.363 Wow. 00:02:59.468 --> 00:03:02.100 So kind of a consequential change, I would think. 00:03:02.100 --> 00:03:02.417 Yeah. 00:03:02.631 --> 00:03:07.180 They will keep supporting Plasma 6 with bug fixes and stuff into early 2027. 00:03:07.180 --> 00:03:10.190 So there's at least some support. And I'm sure, you know, some other downstream 00:03:10.190 --> 00:03:11.890 LTSs will take that even further. 00:03:11.890 --> 00:03:14.967 Yeah, I'll tell you who's going to use that. People that need remote desktop. 00:03:15.577 --> 00:03:16.040 Right. 00:03:16.040 --> 00:03:17.672 I mean, really, if you need remote desktop, 00:03:18.722 --> 00:03:21.569 There's options with Wayland for sure, and a single desktop is probably going 00:03:21.569 --> 00:03:24.239 to work okay. But if you need advanced stuff, you need multi-desktop, 00:03:24.239 --> 00:03:27.859 multi-screen, things like that, I don't even think they're trying to ship that 00:03:27.859 --> 00:03:29.509 in 6.8, right? That's just going to be a down-the-road thing. 00:03:29.509 --> 00:03:32.179 I think it's recognized. It won't be ready for that. 00:03:32.179 --> 00:03:32.539 Okay. 00:03:32.539 --> 00:03:35.889 And I think the project understands as well that it is kind of critical for 00:03:35.889 --> 00:03:41.089 X11 holdouts for many folks. And they have made progress, though, right? 00:03:42.029 --> 00:03:46.069 Bi-directional clipboard sync, adaptive RDP quality, lower latency, 00:03:46.069 --> 00:03:47.758 unattended session improvements. 00:03:47.898 --> 00:03:48.838 Exclusive mode? 00:03:49.216 --> 00:03:50.269 Exclusive mode. 00:03:50.269 --> 00:03:53.769 That's pretty sweet. Locks the physical display and gives the remote user a virtual display. 00:03:53.769 --> 00:03:57.202 They do have quite sophisticated virtual support now, which is pretty great. 00:03:57.849 --> 00:04:02.009 So I think there's a lot cooking. It's just, you know, reliable, 00:04:02.009 --> 00:04:06.322 polished, rock-solid remote desktop is a pretty non-trivial ask. 00:04:06.548 --> 00:04:07.546 So there's a lot to get right. 00:04:08.104 --> 00:04:08.702 It's doable, though. 00:04:09.183 --> 00:04:09.599 Oh, yeah. 00:04:09.599 --> 00:04:13.709 And they'll work on it. They'll work on it. But 6.8 is going to be a really solid release. 00:04:15.029 --> 00:04:17.189 If you're on a stack that Waylon works well with, you're going to love it, 00:04:17.189 --> 00:04:20.933 I think. I mean, and there's so many nice things. Like they're working on Cup, 00:04:21.420 --> 00:04:25.059 including Cup, which is a backup tool that I would like to have Brent look at, 00:04:25.059 --> 00:04:26.229 actually. See what Brent thinks. 00:04:26.229 --> 00:04:28.129 A little Brent special report. I like that idea. 00:04:28.129 --> 00:04:29.489 Okay, I'm adding that to my list here. 00:04:29.989 --> 00:04:32.869 You want to be our backup specialist? 00:04:32.869 --> 00:04:35.859 When do we want to do this? Do you have a deadline that you'd like to consider? 00:04:35.859 --> 00:04:39.029 No, no, no. Okay, so whenever free time. Maybe when 6.8 comes out or something, 00:04:39.029 --> 00:04:40.089 because it comes with 6.8. 00:04:41.410 --> 00:04:47.430 I think some of this, we saw them taking a look at ButterFS snapshot display in Dolphin and stuff. 00:04:48.060 --> 00:04:51.610 I think as they're working on KDE Linux, and they're kind of working on it towards 00:04:51.610 --> 00:04:57.430 a KDE Linux 2 sort of situation, they're really thinking holistically about that whole experience. 00:04:57.430 --> 00:05:00.453 And even if maybe you use a different distro's lower part of the plumbing, 00:05:00.940 --> 00:05:04.365 the fact that KDE is thinking about that means there's going to be affordances 00:05:04.702 --> 00:05:09.020 at the KDE level to enable that kind of thing. And I think that's going to pay 00:05:09.020 --> 00:05:11.761 a lot of dividends. like things like backups. 00:05:11.889 --> 00:05:12.170 Yeah. 00:05:12.170 --> 00:05:16.980 Because then maybe you need more explicit hooks in KDE to support that and then other things can use. 00:05:17.369 --> 00:05:20.450 It feels like that's one of the advantages of being around for 30 years is you 00:05:20.450 --> 00:05:25.990 can, you know, look at the peripheries of your main offering and really make those smooth. 00:05:26.450 --> 00:05:30.610 I think the long-term future is bright for them too because they got a million 00:05:30.610 --> 00:05:32.595 euros from the Sovereign Tech Fund recently. 00:05:33.390 --> 00:05:37.690 And if you look at how they're spending the money, it's around boring stuff 00:05:37.690 --> 00:05:41.564 like building and improving the automated QA infrastructure, 00:05:42.051 --> 00:05:46.649 and backup and restore features and factory reset features for the desktop and 00:05:46.835 --> 00:05:49.210 improving security infrastructure and, 00:05:49.790 --> 00:05:52.890 maybe the ability to work with things like network file share is a little easier. 00:05:52.890 --> 00:05:58.550 It feels like money is kind of going. It's not a ton, but 1.285 million euros 00:05:58.550 --> 00:06:00.818 is notable. That's going to pay for some developer time. 00:06:01.189 --> 00:06:07.116 It's being prepared for wider deployment in public sector use, I think. 00:06:08.305 --> 00:06:11.231 And, I mean, it seems like a pretty good fit for that use case, 00:06:11.231 --> 00:06:14.366 right? Like, it's got a familiar way to interface with the computer. 00:06:14.714 --> 00:06:17.041 I think a lot of people could be able to interact with it. And, 00:06:17.041 --> 00:06:21.241 as we know, at this point, it's both very flexible and configurable and pretty 00:06:21.241 --> 00:06:22.185 rock-solid out of the gate. 00:06:22.313 --> 00:06:26.211 A lot of, you know, honestly, WebDAV is a pretty native, you know, 00:06:26.211 --> 00:06:28.431 intranet workflow. They've got great WebDAV support in there. 00:06:28.431 --> 00:06:31.521 They've got a pretty good personal information management suite in there for 00:06:31.521 --> 00:06:33.847 managing your calendar and your contacts which you can load in there. 00:06:35.565 --> 00:06:38.801 Yeah. Yeah, and like you say, you could make it look a lot like Windows. 00:06:38.801 --> 00:06:42.561 In fact, one of my favorite layouts is the Windows 2000 kind of retro look in 00:06:42.561 --> 00:06:44.337 Plasma. I just think it looks fantastic. 00:06:45.071 --> 00:06:47.781 And you could go to a corporate workstation and replace an old Windows box with 00:06:47.781 --> 00:06:49.031 that, and they'd be pretty happy. 00:06:49.031 --> 00:06:52.511 Yeah, I think you're right about that. Speaking of workstations, 00:06:52.511 --> 00:06:55.401 it sounds like some of the configuration management work that's being put in 00:06:55.401 --> 00:06:59.985 here is actually explicitly aimed at centralized policy and fleet stuff. 00:07:00.559 --> 00:07:02.561 This is what I'm reading. This is what I'm reading. I'm reading like, 00:07:02.561 --> 00:07:07.251 okay, we're improving the QA process. We're improving the security infrastructure. 00:07:07.251 --> 00:07:09.522 We're building things like factory reset and backup. 00:07:10.027 --> 00:07:14.259 And we're also looking at tools that make it better for fleet administration. 00:07:14.689 --> 00:07:19.171 This all reads to me as signals that it's being prepared for improved public sector use. 00:07:19.751 --> 00:07:20.912 That's a serious project. 00:07:21.266 --> 00:07:25.300 And that is the kind of thing that once done could go on for 20, 30 years. 00:07:26.165 --> 00:07:29.431 You know, you know, once I mean, especially because they're not paying licensing 00:07:29.431 --> 00:07:31.442 fees in the traditional sense. Hopefully they'll kick back. 00:07:32.551 --> 00:07:37.051 So if a government, like a large government, were to really base a workflow 00:07:37.051 --> 00:07:39.917 around Plasma, why wouldn't that stick for 30 years? 00:07:40.329 --> 00:07:43.061 I mean, you could see if it took off too, right? You kind of get a shared base 00:07:43.061 --> 00:07:46.101 that everyone can contribute to, whether you need to just add something for 00:07:46.101 --> 00:07:48.235 yourself or then it ends up being widely adopted. 00:07:48.542 --> 00:07:52.977 In the bootleg earlier today, earlier, previously, in the stream, 00:07:53.372 --> 00:07:56.646 we were talking about the Netherlands building a Nix-based Linux desktop. 00:07:57.581 --> 00:08:02.326 And that same sort of thing where that gives them the ability to deploy a system 00:08:02.326 --> 00:08:05.246 where the vendor doesn't force them to roll to a new version at a particular 00:08:05.246 --> 00:08:07.906 point and the desktop environment can be managed. 00:08:07.906 --> 00:08:12.036 And it really is a lot of what people liked about Windows and group policy without 00:08:12.036 --> 00:08:16.326 the licensing or the forced – what am I trying to say? Forced obsolescence. 00:08:16.826 --> 00:08:21.686 And like as much control as you'd like in terms of building from your own caches 00:08:21.686 --> 00:08:23.466 internally with only approved software. 00:08:23.466 --> 00:08:27.244 Right. And it's been verified and secured. And they can move more at the speed of government. 00:08:27.650 --> 00:08:30.636 And you know what runs great on NyxOS? KDE Plasma. 00:08:30.636 --> 00:08:31.000 Yeah. 00:08:31.522 --> 00:08:34.566 Do you think they're using Flakes? Right into the show. Let us know. 00:08:35.726 --> 00:08:38.946 The Netherlands are. I mean, interesting. Anyways, it's really great to see that. 00:08:39.966 --> 00:08:42.169 I'd love to see them get even more than a million euros, you know? 00:08:43.115 --> 00:08:44.559 But let's keep that going. 00:08:45.343 --> 00:08:50.796 There has been a bit of a dust-up that I think kind of has been boiling probably 00:08:50.796 --> 00:08:53.389 since about April, I think, if my timeline is right on this. 00:08:53.644 --> 00:08:56.076 Certainly not just right now. It's been a longer discussion. 00:08:56.076 --> 00:09:00.476 But it kind of feels like this last week, it really kind of flared up to the 00:09:00.476 --> 00:09:02.740 next level where it's worth talking about now on the show. 00:09:04.206 --> 00:09:11.206 And Nate posted a blog post called KDE and AI, You and Me, which probably has 00:09:11.206 --> 00:09:15.691 the most succinct and authoritative summary of this. So we'll link to that in the show notes. 00:09:17.254 --> 00:09:23.401 The short version is KDE, as a group, has been debating how to handle LLM-assisted 00:09:23.401 --> 00:09:28.291 contributions, especially the bad ones, low effort, stuff that people are just 00:09:28.291 --> 00:09:29.578 trying and they're throwing in. 00:09:30.478 --> 00:09:34.071 And the merge request and all of that to process that, to figure out which ones 00:09:34.071 --> 00:09:36.439 are real, merge those, which ones are crap, reject those. 00:09:36.851 --> 00:09:43.213 It's a lot of just crappy, grindy work for the maintainers, and it's only growing. 00:09:43.903 --> 00:09:46.481 Yeah, and this is something we've seen, you know, a wide array of open source 00:09:46.481 --> 00:09:48.031 projects having to deal with at this point. 00:09:48.501 --> 00:09:53.400 Yeah, and Nate Graham proposed guidelines that were not an AI ban, 00:09:53.952 --> 00:09:59.191 but to essentially say, use the tool you want, but you must understand the results, 00:09:59.191 --> 00:10:02.841 and you must be able to verify it, and you just can't dump the work on the maintainers 00:10:02.841 --> 00:10:04.000 that you can't defend yourself. 00:10:04.784 --> 00:10:10.301 And that even just sort of being open to the idea of AI is an agitator to some in the community. 00:10:10.301 --> 00:10:14.101 But then almost at the same time, Academy was going on and they featured a talk 00:10:14.101 --> 00:10:17.871 proposing a really gentle, more 00:10:17.871 --> 00:10:22.408 kind of be open to the idea of AI agents working with a plasma desktop. 00:10:23.697 --> 00:10:26.691 And they kind of had the outside look of like the rest of the world's moving 00:10:26.691 --> 00:10:30.151 very aggressively here. We're going to have new users show up that might expect 00:10:30.151 --> 00:10:32.236 this functionality. We maybe should have an answer for them. 00:10:32.793 --> 00:10:34.076 And I'll link to this video. 00:10:34.859 --> 00:10:38.993 The video is called, What Would It Take? A Lovable Sovereign AI Native KDE. 00:10:40.154 --> 00:10:42.625 You're kind of trying to imagine what that might look like. 00:10:43.037 --> 00:10:46.461 And they were very gentle. I mean, they were very, very gentle in this video. 00:10:46.461 --> 00:10:48.895 Everything was a maybe we should consider, we could. 00:10:49.342 --> 00:10:54.758 And they were very focused on protecting data, protecting privacy, and local open AI. 00:10:55.332 --> 00:10:56.900 That was really... 00:10:57.985 --> 00:11:03.771 as controversial as they got in that talk. But with Nate's proposal and this 00:11:03.771 --> 00:11:08.487 kind of seemingly more open to AI and KDE talk at Academy, 00:11:09.131 --> 00:11:15.101 those two things collided online and a policy that was maybe a decent idea became 00:11:15.101 --> 00:11:17.741 an inflammatory topic. Is that a fair summary? 00:11:17.741 --> 00:11:20.541 Yeah, I think so. Also, I just want to point out too, in that talk, 00:11:20.541 --> 00:11:24.911 they did explicitly say, you know, obviously the desktop needs to keep working 00:11:24.911 --> 00:11:28.221 without any ai or llm tooling right that still needs to be first class. 00:11:28.221 --> 00:11:32.191 Yeah no it's more about like we've got dbus we've already got all these communication 00:11:32.191 --> 00:11:33.936 protocols we just need a little um, 00:11:35.306 --> 00:11:40.251 essentially what they were really proposing was safety barriers and restrictions 00:11:40.251 --> 00:11:45.561 on what is capable now like there's a lot more access if you point an llm agent 00:11:45.561 --> 00:11:48.321 at that they have that they were saying we should probably wall some of this 00:11:48.321 --> 00:11:50.271 off is essentially what they were saying well. 00:11:50.271 --> 00:11:53.101 And that's the benefit you get when you have intentional interfaces, right? 00:11:53.101 --> 00:11:57.281 So like I've been trying out the KWIN MCP, but like you might have to try to 00:11:57.281 --> 00:11:59.821 get one thing that you want. You might have to get more information than you 00:11:59.821 --> 00:12:03.231 need, or like it has to use some private internal APIs that should probably 00:12:03.231 --> 00:12:06.999 be, you know, explicitly considered and made intentional public APIs. 00:12:07.480 --> 00:12:12.481 So that turned into kind of, you know, an online firestorm of should KD permit 00:12:12.481 --> 00:12:14.748 AI and LM assisted contributions at all? 00:12:15.911 --> 00:12:19.341 A group of people standing up a website that put together a lengthy you know 00:12:19.341 --> 00:12:22.974 positioning kd and plasma against ai as a community. 00:12:23.404 --> 00:12:26.440 Right it became more not just a discussion about what you know, 00:12:26.927 --> 00:12:30.811 like the concrete thing of how to help maintainers deal with this it became 00:12:30.811 --> 00:12:35.041 sort of a as often these situations do a comment on the total judgment of what 00:12:35.041 --> 00:12:38.551 ai is and if you should use it and a much larger conversation. 00:12:38.551 --> 00:12:41.831 And then it involved like digging up social media posts of people to try to 00:12:41.831 --> 00:12:44.911 discredit people in the arguments i mean it got kind of ugly. 00:12:45.251 --> 00:12:48.371 And the end result, of course, if you look practically what happened, 00:12:48.371 --> 00:12:54.500 is a proposal that was intended to give maintainers actually more power to reject AI slop, 00:12:55.376 --> 00:13:00.324 was then portrayed as opening Plasma and KD to the door, the door to AI, 00:13:00.324 --> 00:13:03.422 and so they just rejected all of it, so now there's nothing. Now there's no policy. 00:13:04.037 --> 00:13:06.731 And we're right back to where we were when we began with this whole thing. 00:13:09.343 --> 00:13:14.173 And Nate in his September 23rd post pointed out that a couple of the people 00:13:14.480 --> 00:13:18.672 that joined the big fight around AI weren't known to be KD contributors. 00:13:19.513 --> 00:13:24.074 um and really they shifted the fight to the morality of ai generally rather 00:13:24.074 --> 00:13:28.034 than the contribution roles and that's sort of when it went off the rails katie 00:13:28.034 --> 00:13:31.584 had to lock out participation to some folks i mean it got it got bad. 00:13:31.584 --> 00:13:36.034 Yeah i think that particular uh ticket thread thing is even now closed and gone 00:13:36.034 --> 00:13:39.884 at this point but of course it spilled out to the wider social media and various 00:13:39.884 --> 00:13:41.501 places where people talk about linux. 00:13:42.976 --> 00:13:45.422 So there's a couple of questions in here. And the first one, 00:13:45.422 --> 00:13:47.179 and I think this is the quickest one that I just like, 00:13:48.311 --> 00:13:54.551 is to me, Brent, it seems like the obvious unspoken position of the anti-AI crowd, 00:13:55.666 --> 00:14:01.522 seems to have a quiet assumption that if they can hold out and if they can ban 00:14:01.522 --> 00:14:03.584 AI and AI-assisted contributions, 00:14:04.309 --> 00:14:05.697 it will eventually just go away. 00:14:06.091 --> 00:14:09.284 Do you agree that there's that kind of baked in assumption to this, or am I misreading this? 00:14:10.439 --> 00:14:13.782 I think that's the intention. i don't know if, 00:14:14.799 --> 00:14:20.134 everyone who's pushing back thinks that's a reality long term but maybe, 00:14:20.922 --> 00:14:25.762 it's like hey let's put the brakes on now before we can figure out like what 00:14:25.762 --> 00:14:31.157 this is actually going to mean for the future but the problem i have with that is it's almost, 00:14:31.889 --> 00:14:36.802 forcing projects to take like an all-or-nothing approach like either you use 00:14:36.802 --> 00:14:40.392 a tiny bit of ai to help you manage tickets and stuff like that or, 00:14:41.373 --> 00:14:46.782 or you don't integrate into the project at all and that's doesn't seem nuanced 00:14:46.782 --> 00:14:53.848 enough like uh we can do both if we're thoughtful about it which if you read some of nate's original, 00:14:54.521 --> 00:14:58.442 um suggestion and proposal and how to do this is very reasonable and we've seen 00:14:58.442 --> 00:15:04.092 many projects recently including the linux kernel itself do very similar proposals 00:15:04.092 --> 00:15:06.009 And yet this one, for some reason, 00:15:07.205 --> 00:15:09.968 caught certain people's attention and got very fiery. 00:15:11.019 --> 00:15:14.472 Okay, Wes, my question for you, this is just sort of the easy ones, 00:15:14.472 --> 00:15:15.988 but I just wanted to ask you, like... 00:15:17.108 --> 00:15:20.414 There's another assumption, I think, that might be baked into the anti-LM crowd 00:15:20.414 --> 00:15:26.176 here that is tenuous at best today and not going to work long term at all, in my opinion. 00:15:26.710 --> 00:15:32.244 And that is that it all hinges on the ability to determine the difference between 00:15:32.244 --> 00:15:36.084 a human-generated contribution and a machine-generated contribution. 00:15:36.084 --> 00:15:39.084 And it sort of hinges on this assumption that's going to be detectable and that 00:15:39.084 --> 00:15:41.105 the machine-generated code is going to be worse. 00:15:41.464 --> 00:15:46.354 Yeah, and that you should try to do that detection, that that detection has value, right? 00:15:46.854 --> 00:15:47.844 Oh, you're blowing my mind. Okay. 00:15:47.844 --> 00:15:51.214 Right? Like that, yeah, there's not only can you detect it, which is not always true. 00:15:51.214 --> 00:15:52.784 Right. And it will be harder and harder. 00:15:52.784 --> 00:15:56.184 Yeah, for sure. And then there's just like, does that add something? 00:15:56.184 --> 00:15:59.054 And that's where I thought the original proposal was so interesting because 00:15:59.054 --> 00:16:02.394 it didn't focus on sort of the provenance of the code. 00:16:05.061 --> 00:16:09.456 It was kind of just saying to maintainers, you have permission to say no, right? 00:16:10.934 --> 00:16:13.134 And the people that contribute need to be responsible for the code. 00:16:13.134 --> 00:16:16.934 Yes. It didn't change the standards of the project. The code review standards 00:16:16.934 --> 00:16:20.967 remain the code review standards, right? And that's kind of the point is if, 00:16:21.496 --> 00:16:24.032 either it meets those standards, kind of what Linux is doing, 00:16:24.374 --> 00:16:26.366 or it doesn't, and you're responsible for it. 00:16:26.870 --> 00:16:30.424 And this is where the outside pressure kind of sucks in both sides, right? 00:16:30.424 --> 00:16:34.414 We have to focus against it, but it kind of means anything you do can feel like 00:16:34.414 --> 00:16:37.336 you're taking a side as well. So it's not, you might want to, 00:16:37.678 --> 00:16:40.524 as we've talked about on the show, right? There provides a lot of opportunity 00:16:40.524 --> 00:16:43.947 for folks who haven't felt like they could contribute to these projects to contribute. 00:16:44.453 --> 00:16:48.254 But that also comes with the responsibility of knowing how to do so responsibly. 00:16:48.254 --> 00:16:51.314 And I think that you can also feel pressure as a maintainer if you say no to 00:16:51.314 --> 00:16:55.708 something or you need to reshape this and then you're not getting responses, 00:16:55.987 --> 00:16:58.824 that now you're coming out against AI, even if you're just trying to maintain 00:16:58.824 --> 00:17:00.167 neutral standards of the project. 00:17:00.654 --> 00:17:03.951 Those, I think, are arguments against the anti-LM crowd. 00:17:04.433 --> 00:17:09.089 Where I think maybe they do have an argument is the inundation of, 00:17:10.139 --> 00:17:15.595 Stuff that just burns up maintainer time. And that is a legitimate problem because 00:17:15.729 --> 00:17:21.384 the cost to produce those crap pull requests or whatever is just going to be cheaper and cheaper. 00:17:21.724 --> 00:17:24.523 And it's going to be more and more people that have access to it. 00:17:24.848 --> 00:17:27.804 And it's going to be everything from some crap chat bot to like an actually 00:17:27.804 --> 00:17:30.507 advanced, you know, cogeneration harness. 00:17:30.675 --> 00:17:34.394 And you used to have a useful signal, right? It took a fair amount of work to 00:17:34.394 --> 00:17:37.234 learn how to contribute to a project like that and go through the motions with 00:17:37.234 --> 00:17:40.384 Git and to shape your thing and figure out how to open the merge request. 00:17:40.384 --> 00:17:45.074 And now the cost has just gone way, way down. And so it used to be just that 00:17:45.074 --> 00:17:47.644 the fact that it existed was at least reasonably high signal, 00:17:47.644 --> 00:17:49.013 even if you ultimately didn't accept it. 00:17:49.437 --> 00:17:53.181 But you combine that with just the huge increase in the number of them too. 00:17:53.332 --> 00:17:59.664 But I think, you know, you got to really realize the state of the system now, 00:17:59.664 --> 00:18:03.781 even if anthropic and open AI went away tomorrow, you know, right. 00:18:04.124 --> 00:18:07.363 But even if they did, like, you know, they just cratered into themselves. 00:18:08.367 --> 00:18:12.232 The open source models are good now, and there's so many of them, 00:18:12.232 --> 00:18:15.211 and they're releasing so frequently, and it's so competitive. 00:18:15.937 --> 00:18:19.592 It's really – it's actually to the point of you can't keep track of it. 00:18:20.452 --> 00:18:24.232 You can kind of watch some of it, but it's just – the model releases are so 00:18:24.232 --> 00:18:29.512 fast and furious right now in the open source world, and a lot of them – I mean, 00:18:29.512 --> 00:18:31.412 you're primarily using open source models. 00:18:31.412 --> 00:18:31.963 Yeah, mostly. 00:18:32.544 --> 00:18:35.412 And you're generating very usable, functional results. 00:18:35.412 --> 00:18:38.572 Yeah, I mean, I do occasionally use proprietary models to do some review or whatever. 00:18:38.892 --> 00:18:41.242 I use a variety of models just because that seems like it's useful. 00:18:41.242 --> 00:18:44.852 But yeah, you can get all kinds of productive work done these days. 00:18:44.852 --> 00:18:47.422 The LLM-assisted coding, though, it's just probably not going away. 00:18:47.422 --> 00:18:50.702 And I know I've made this analogy before, and I'm not the first, 00:18:50.702 --> 00:18:54.262 but Brent, I just, I love talking about this with you since you have a photography background. 00:18:54.262 --> 00:18:54.928 Oh, yeah. Yeah. 00:18:55.642 --> 00:18:59.702 Like there was a period when you could, as a photographer, maybe plausibly believe 00:18:59.702 --> 00:19:03.351 that digital photography was just bad photography. The first digital cameras sucked. 00:19:04.432 --> 00:19:07.012 And the people that were most likely to use them were amateurs. 00:19:07.012 --> 00:19:07.982 So they didn't know how to frame a 00:19:07.982 --> 00:19:11.106 photo. They didn't know all the secret locations to go get a great photo. 00:19:11.727 --> 00:19:15.302 They didn't know the rules to compose in a great portrait or anything like that. 00:19:15.302 --> 00:19:17.016 And the camera quality sucked. 00:19:17.381 --> 00:19:20.905 So like it was easy to dismiss and professionals wouldn't even touch it. Right. 00:19:21.764 --> 00:19:23.123 But of course, that changed over time. 00:19:23.541 --> 00:19:27.433 It was super interesting for me to be a professional photographer, 00:19:27.433 --> 00:19:31.237 or at least at the time when digital was becoming, 00:19:32.769 --> 00:19:38.353 usable, let's say, because I've used digital cameras where you stick a floppy 00:19:38.353 --> 00:19:42.673 drive into it and you get like 0.2 megapixels or something. Those were fun. 00:19:42.893 --> 00:19:45.843 Yeah, yeah, yeah. You can fit like 10 pictures on the floppy disk and that's 00:19:45.843 --> 00:19:46.693 how low quality they were. 00:19:46.693 --> 00:19:47.053 Yeah. 00:19:47.053 --> 00:19:48.814 The floppy disk was 1.4 megabytes. 00:19:49.023 --> 00:19:51.103 It was the easiest way to get a photo into your computer though, 00:19:51.103 --> 00:19:55.273 right? And it does remind me of AI quite a bit too. 00:19:55.273 --> 00:20:00.243 So I agree with your analogy because the technology has actually been around for a very long time. 00:20:00.243 --> 00:20:05.443 It's just the difference between it being just widely available and easy enough 00:20:05.443 --> 00:20:10.333 to use that someone who's not an AI researcher can use these things. 00:20:10.633 --> 00:20:16.343 So the really interesting thing about photography that I think applies completely 00:20:16.343 --> 00:20:21.897 here was when I lived through the transition between film and digital, 00:20:22.973 --> 00:20:29.186 there were some photographers who were early adopters, which we can see in this realm as well. 00:20:29.604 --> 00:20:32.611 and those photographers tended to be the ones then that, 00:20:33.307 --> 00:20:39.257 when the technology was good enough which it was moving fast so that was like six months later, 00:20:39.809 --> 00:20:44.393 uh they were way ahead of the people who were pushing back on just keeping you 00:20:44.393 --> 00:20:47.077 know we've been doing film for 100 years why should we give it up 00:20:47.512 --> 00:20:54.931 and these days film is like just a hobbyist's um activity which is awesome but, 00:20:55.384 --> 00:20:57.313 But if you're doing professional stuff not digitally, 00:20:57.893 --> 00:20:59.743 that's not the way. 00:20:59.743 --> 00:21:04.869 It's just the irony there that you could probably describe digital started as a hobbyist thing. 00:21:05.780 --> 00:21:10.279 And now imagine a professional shop that just banned digital photography. 00:21:10.720 --> 00:21:15.390 That shop is either gone and dead now, or it's like some top tier specialty 00:21:15.390 --> 00:21:18.190 that only does glass and, you know, analog, right? 00:21:18.190 --> 00:21:19.250 You nailed it. Exactly. 00:21:20.430 --> 00:21:21.331 It's like the two routes. 00:21:21.934 --> 00:21:24.940 And typically they end up scanning the stuff into your computer anyways. 00:21:24.940 --> 00:21:29.080 And it does have a different look and feel, but, you know, as far as productivity 00:21:29.080 --> 00:21:34.230 goes and accessibility and stuff, it turned around completely. 00:21:34.230 --> 00:21:36.609 Digital is far, far easier than the film stuff now. 00:21:37.231 --> 00:21:41.143 And the AI-assisted code is going even faster than the digital photography did. 00:21:42.210 --> 00:21:47.690 And so a ban that is presumpted on we're getting too much slop reports, 00:21:47.690 --> 00:21:52.898 you know, AI-generated code is bad, is just not going to work forever. It's not sustainable. 00:21:53.107 --> 00:21:56.250 Yeah, and it maybe wasn't the problem anyone asked for, right? 00:21:56.250 --> 00:21:57.170 That is a big thing. 00:21:57.170 --> 00:22:00.950 We have this problem now, and I think it does behoove us to try and figure out, 00:22:02.250 --> 00:22:05.820 how to figure out how to teach people how to use these tools to get code that 00:22:05.820 --> 00:22:11.050 is up to the standard and can be collaborated on and can actually help projects. 00:22:11.474 --> 00:22:14.210 And then, of course, the social etiquette that goes with that too, 00:22:14.210 --> 00:22:17.610 right? Because at the end of the day, for the most part, we're not yet on crazy 00:22:17.610 --> 00:22:19.223 bot swarms opening these themselves. 00:22:19.472 --> 00:22:22.357 It's mostly human-driven folks using these tooling. 00:22:22.706 --> 00:22:24.610 And so there's the human layer of like, 00:22:26.369 --> 00:22:29.469 You have a role in what you're submitting, and if you submit stuff that is just 00:22:29.661 --> 00:22:31.513 spam, it's kind of just spam. 00:22:32.149 --> 00:22:37.654 It is fair to underscore, though, like we've never had a shortage of patches. 00:22:38.293 --> 00:22:40.729 That's not really, I mean, maybe some projects, but big projects don't really 00:22:40.729 --> 00:22:43.849 have a shortage of patches. They have a shortage of maintainer time and attention. 00:22:44.510 --> 00:22:48.092 And that's been the problem we've had for a long time, and this is making that worse. 00:22:48.399 --> 00:22:51.589 Because it can take a lot to get a patch from, like, technically solves the 00:22:51.589 --> 00:22:56.559 problem to actually fits in with the rest of the code base and the roadmap and, 00:22:56.559 --> 00:22:58.759 you know, the wide array of factors that might go into it. 00:22:58.759 --> 00:23:04.809 But here's a simple, like, little logical scenario why banning LM-assisted code doesn't make sense. 00:23:04.809 --> 00:23:10.528 Because if a human writes a terrible 3,000-line patch manually, 00:23:11.277 --> 00:23:14.529 they would reject it because it's terrible and it's 3,000 lines of code. 00:23:15.029 --> 00:23:19.619 And if somebody uses an LLM to generate a beautiful 300 line patch and they 00:23:19.619 --> 00:23:23.385 understand every line that was written and they have tests for it and they can maintain it. 00:23:24.656 --> 00:23:27.090 They would reject that too, just because it was LM generated, 00:23:27.090 --> 00:23:29.132 even though it is substantially better than the other patch. 00:23:29.265 --> 00:23:29.520 Yeah. 00:23:29.520 --> 00:23:30.500 That just doesn't make sense. 00:23:30.500 --> 00:23:32.243 Yeah, that's where it feels like it's the wrong test. 00:23:32.371 --> 00:23:39.030 To me, I see the difference as using AI as a tool in your toolbox to generate 00:23:39.030 --> 00:23:41.729 the code versus having AI be the author. 00:23:42.083 --> 00:23:46.280 I think there's quite a difference in that. And what all projects are looking 00:23:46.280 --> 00:23:54.000 for is the tool use one, not the authorship, because then someone has some skin in the game, I guess. 00:23:55.307 --> 00:23:57.234 and can maybe stick around and, 00:23:58.047 --> 00:24:01.204 help maintain the thing that they just dropped. That would be a concept. 00:24:01.541 --> 00:24:04.200 You know, and I know this isn't how they think. They're not corporations. 00:24:04.900 --> 00:24:09.150 They don't look at, well, it's funny because they like to look at the market. 00:24:09.150 --> 00:24:11.897 They like to try to build products to draw new users. 00:24:12.321 --> 00:24:15.480 But then if I ever suggest that they should think competitively for a moment 00:24:15.480 --> 00:24:18.390 or something like that, then we're open source projects. 00:24:18.390 --> 00:24:23.094 But just from a differentiating standpoint in the marketplace, 00:24:24.243 --> 00:24:29.665 the Gnome folks are going hardcore anti-LLM from the whole ecosystem right and, 00:24:30.234 --> 00:24:34.733 so you know if you want to make a moral stand Gnome is going to be the project for you, 00:24:35.540 --> 00:24:39.870 if KDE and Plasma make that same stand you just removed a differentiator in 00:24:39.870 --> 00:24:44.740 the marketplace and one that could be significant and we note that they got 00:24:44.740 --> 00:24:49.090 one million dollars or one million euros in funding well that is great Omar 00:24:49.090 --> 00:24:50.380 Archie is over $18 million, 00:24:51.160 --> 00:24:54.560 in a couple of months. Right? I think it's beyond $18 million. 00:24:54.580 --> 00:24:55.479 Yeah, $20 million maybe now? 00:24:56.949 --> 00:25:00.843 And the reason for that is, A, because DHH has contacts because he's the creator 00:25:00.843 --> 00:25:04.423 of Ruby on Rails, and some of these donors have built their business on top 00:25:04.423 --> 00:25:07.548 of Ruby on Rails, and they owe David a solid. 00:25:08.053 --> 00:25:12.473 But I think the other obvious accelerator has been the moment they positioned 00:25:12.473 --> 00:25:17.577 it as an agentic-friendly desktop, they started getting millions of dollars of funding. 00:25:18.100 --> 00:25:21.093 Now, I'm not saying KDE should play games just for that kind of stuff. 00:25:21.093 --> 00:25:24.903 I'm pointing out that there could be advantages to differentiating in the marketplace 00:25:24.903 --> 00:25:28.313 depending on where the funding and where the interest is and where corporations 00:25:28.313 --> 00:25:29.710 want to go and all of this. 00:25:30.104 --> 00:25:33.403 And being a desktop that is at least amenable to that workflow, 00:25:33.403 --> 00:25:35.993 doesn't necessarily have to promote it, doesn't necessarily have to encourage 00:25:35.993 --> 00:25:41.221 it, but just isn't hostile to it, is going to open it up to a new type of user 00:25:41.511 --> 00:25:42.703 that is coming in droves. 00:25:42.703 --> 00:25:46.003 The reason why people cannot wrap their heads around it because it's just dot 00:25:46.003 --> 00:25:49.843 files and themes, they say. But Oma Archie is saying, if this is the workflow 00:25:49.843 --> 00:25:52.494 you want to embrace, we're the platform for you. 00:25:52.959 --> 00:25:57.179 And the result is they're getting $20 million in funding and a lot of attention. 00:25:57.626 --> 00:26:02.313 Plasma could do something that is probably more approachable and amenable to 00:26:02.313 --> 00:26:05.979 the existing community that fits more within the existing values of the community. 00:26:06.275 --> 00:26:09.453 that still taps into some of that interest and excitement that's in the broader 00:26:09.453 --> 00:26:12.703 marketplace without having to align themselves, without having to do any of 00:26:12.703 --> 00:26:16.503 the branding, without having to do any of that stuff, but just by making Plasma 00:26:16.503 --> 00:26:19.004 a better and safer place for those types of workflows. 00:26:19.562 --> 00:26:22.580 And it starts with figuring it out here with the submission process. 00:26:23.323 --> 00:26:27.526 Well, and the proposal from some folks was KDE for people. 00:26:28.043 --> 00:26:30.963 I don't think we have to accept that being amenable to that, 00:26:30.963 --> 00:26:34.913 having composable APIs that AI agents can use as well as humans, 00:26:35.673 --> 00:26:38.593 the only way to do that is to make something that isn't also a first class thing 00:26:38.593 --> 00:26:41.563 for people I just don't I don't think that's true and so I think well who's. 00:26:41.563 --> 00:26:42.787 Using the tools people, 00:26:44.726 --> 00:26:48.186 I think this is where, when we look at what holds Linux back, 00:26:48.488 --> 00:26:52.331 and we can't really wrap our head around why it doesn't get broader market adoption, 00:26:53.196 --> 00:26:57.219 because you cannot see a market signal when it's smacking you in the face. 00:26:57.991 --> 00:27:00.962 And that's just always been the case. And we've never had, until companies came 00:27:00.962 --> 00:27:05.042 around, like System76, we didn't have anybody that was paying attention to a 00:27:05.042 --> 00:27:07.342 particular market signal and trying to build for that. We had this, 00:27:07.342 --> 00:27:10.935 we're trying to draw new users, or these broad things, these broad, broad strokes. 00:27:11.550 --> 00:27:14.917 And when we do see the signals, like $20 million worth of signal, 00:27:15.468 --> 00:27:20.977 we still don't know how as a community to properly interpolate that signal and act on it. 00:27:21.534 --> 00:27:25.319 But I think it's just obvious that long term, 00:27:26.300 --> 00:27:32.412 if Plasma goes anti-LLM and GNOME goes anti-LLM, then desktop projects like 00:27:32.412 --> 00:27:37.446 Hyperland and others are going to be what fits that market need and not Plasma. 00:27:37.783 --> 00:27:41.362 plasma. And it could be, and this is where I think, this is where I say the 00:27:41.362 --> 00:27:42.647 Linux community holds itself back. 00:27:42.949 --> 00:27:47.522 It could be that new demographic is 10 to 20 times larger than the existing 00:27:47.522 --> 00:27:51.958 demographic that also is, their problems are solved by Chromebooks and tablets. 00:27:52.365 --> 00:27:54.867 Yeah. You know, it's like with free software, we didn't just accept that, 00:27:55.238 --> 00:27:57.742 like we weren't going to do stuff that proprietary software did. 00:27:57.742 --> 00:28:00.662 We figured out how we could do it with free and open source software. 00:28:00.662 --> 00:28:02.837 And it seems like the challenge right now is we got to figure out, 00:28:03.087 --> 00:28:07.272 how do we take advantage of this stuff? How do we access funding and sources 00:28:07.272 --> 00:28:12.530 and the next wave of things without compromising on the values that we hold dear? 00:28:13.829 --> 00:28:15.188 We haven't figured it out, but we need to. 00:28:15.327 --> 00:28:18.744 Well, because we're stuck on this conversation of all or nothing. 00:28:18.744 --> 00:28:23.034 We're stuck on this binary thing where there's these sort of baked in assumptions 00:28:23.034 --> 00:28:26.722 that you're going to be able to tell assisted code from human code in the future. 00:28:27.100 --> 00:28:33.119 And we're working on these assumptions that maybe it'll go away if we just ban it long enough. 00:28:33.502 --> 00:28:37.294 And none of these assumptions are going to bear out to be true in the long run. 00:28:37.294 --> 00:28:43.534 And so we're stuck in these false arguments instead of – like what I think the 00:28:43.534 --> 00:28:49.338 Plasma and KD folks were trying to do was open up a discussion of how to do this the right way. 00:28:49.774 --> 00:28:54.267 And it got side-railed by some folks that aren't even involved with the project 00:28:54.528 --> 00:29:01.024 that want to fight about the morality of it, which, again, is fine except for 00:29:01.024 --> 00:29:04.722 then you're also saying we don't want new people coming to Linux. Yeah. 00:29:06.625 --> 00:29:09.380 Is that your position? Because that is what you are saying. 00:29:09.380 --> 00:29:13.380 It also sort of forces a maximalist take on the morality that sort of rejects 00:29:13.380 --> 00:29:17.050 the idea that you could ever have a system that could be aligned with these values. 00:29:17.050 --> 00:29:18.870 Right. That you can't have a system built for people. 00:29:19.350 --> 00:29:21.210 And forestalls the future of trying to do that. 00:29:21.210 --> 00:29:25.210 And I just, again, I want to underscore, like, if you're anti-Linux desktop 00:29:25.210 --> 00:29:30.135 growth, then what are we trying to do here with free software? 00:29:30.286 --> 00:29:35.725 And what was the whole purpose of making something that was making the information free to the world? 00:29:36.973 --> 00:29:38.233 What are we trying to accomplish here? 00:29:39.690 --> 00:29:42.640 Are we just trying to create a clubhouse that's just big enough for us to hang 00:29:42.640 --> 00:29:46.133 out in that, you know, we can pretend like the rest of the world doesn't exist? 00:29:46.812 --> 00:29:52.310 And I think what we have, and I'll end on this, is we have a lot of people out 00:29:52.310 --> 00:29:55.694 there that have made this their hobby for the last 20 years. 00:29:56.600 --> 00:29:57.627 And this is what they've got. 00:29:59.403 --> 00:30:03.130 they don't have something they don't have another skill set they don't really 00:30:03.130 --> 00:30:07.820 have much else and they've devoted their lives to maintaining some of these 00:30:07.820 --> 00:30:13.996 projects it's their hobby it has become for some of them their job it is also for some of them, 00:30:15.198 --> 00:30:18.013 it's what ails them because they are so dedicated and, 00:30:19.250 --> 00:30:22.090 when something comes along like the change we saw in digital photography of 00:30:22.090 --> 00:30:26.070 that kind of scale that tells them your hobby is changing and there's new people 00:30:26.070 --> 00:30:31.353 coming in that don't take your hobby as seriously as you do or approach your hobby the way you do, 00:30:32.200 --> 00:30:34.836 we have this group of people that are. 00:30:36.983 --> 00:30:43.107 I mean, they're almost, it's almost a mass formation of psychosis that's happening. 00:30:43.931 --> 00:30:49.068 And then they're being supported and tricked by rich tech CEOs that are convincing 00:30:49.068 --> 00:30:52.697 them that their products are so powerful, they're going to take us all out in four to 10 years. 00:30:53.486 --> 00:30:57.248 And it just sort of plays into this sort of chamber that it just sort of gets 00:30:57.248 --> 00:30:58.560 louder. It's a doom loop. 00:31:00.191 --> 00:31:03.138 And they're being manipulated by the very people that they claim to be against, 00:31:03.138 --> 00:31:04.868 but yet they're being influenced by them. 00:31:06.239 --> 00:31:10.088 And so we don't get to the practical conversation of how do we safely integrate 00:31:10.088 --> 00:31:14.279 this in a way that actually meets our values and lets people come over to Linux and get right to work. 00:31:14.546 --> 00:31:18.398 And see that they can affect change in this software, that it's responsive to 00:31:18.398 --> 00:31:19.590 them, that it can meet their needs. 00:31:19.851 --> 00:31:25.568 I mean, okay, okay, all right. The reason why $20 million matters is I invite 00:31:25.568 --> 00:31:29.028 the listener to go out there and add up all the money that Linux Mint has ever 00:31:29.028 --> 00:31:33.545 raised or that the GNOME desktop has ever raised or that the Plasma and KDE team has ever raised. 00:31:34.764 --> 00:31:40.714 and then ask yourself why they have raised more money than they ever have in three months. 00:31:42.109 --> 00:31:48.415 There's a real interest, a market interest in a agentic capable operating system. 00:31:48.415 --> 00:31:52.345 And I don't know, you know, what makes Oma Archie agentic? They, 00:31:52.345 --> 00:31:55.905 you know, they build in some tools by default and they have some skills that 00:31:55.905 --> 00:31:59.204 make it so the tools that they build them by default know how to manage the operating system. 00:31:59.762 --> 00:32:04.285 I mean, I think that's that's just really. And if so, we don't have like there 00:32:04.285 --> 00:32:07.645 aren't people thinking about how to isolate D bus to make it private. 00:32:07.645 --> 00:32:09.077 And there's like that's not happening. 00:32:09.582 --> 00:32:13.275 And they're sucking up market share. And I think about these projects like KDE 00:32:13.275 --> 00:32:15.207 that have been around for 30 years, 00:32:16.084 --> 00:32:22.825 and they have a hole in the boat, and they're not able to plug the hole or perhaps 00:32:22.825 --> 00:32:27.990 even grow because their community can't get past an argument that isn't really valid anymore. 00:32:28.431 --> 00:32:31.490 And the problems we need to solve are how to handle all of these contributions, 00:32:32.019 --> 00:32:35.835 and how to make these workflows work on the Plasma desktop that isn't going 00:32:35.835 --> 00:32:37.046 to expose people's information. 00:32:37.830 --> 00:32:41.125 And we're not there. We're just not there yet. And the commercial desktops and 00:32:41.125 --> 00:32:43.501 projects like Oma Archie are just going to lap them. 00:32:43.635 --> 00:32:46.462 And they're going to continue to lose users to that stuff. 00:32:47.849 --> 00:32:51.953 So that's the latest on the AI debate. 00:32:52.632 --> 00:32:57.288 But we do have good news that I'd like to cover, including perhaps, 00:32:57.468 --> 00:33:02.495 although it's not committed as such yet, but perhaps a replacement to the breeze theme in the works. 00:33:02.675 --> 00:33:03.525 Oh, how dare you. 00:33:03.525 --> 00:33:07.335 So there could be, I know, there could be some big changes coming to the Plasma desktop. 00:33:16.790 --> 00:33:22.623 Well, Chris, you're forcing it. What? They're going to change my beloved theme? 00:33:23.437 --> 00:33:30.600 It looks like KDE is suggesting Ocean, a new KDE visual style and design system 00:33:30.600 --> 00:33:35.010 being developed because Breeze never really had a complete modern design system 00:33:35.010 --> 00:33:37.873 representation for designers to work from. 00:33:38.802 --> 00:33:44.990 So that work is including Ocean icons, Ocean plasma style, an Ocean application 00:33:44.990 --> 00:33:48.072 style, an Ocean color theme, and even an ocean font. 00:33:48.583 --> 00:33:51.500 Breeze has been around for so long. 00:33:51.500 --> 00:33:52.240 So long. 00:33:52.560 --> 00:33:55.000 Some of the stuff in Plasma didn't exist when Breeze was created. 00:33:55.000 --> 00:33:55.300 Yeah. 00:33:55.300 --> 00:33:56.740 I mean, I love Breeze. I'm just saying. 00:33:56.740 --> 00:33:59.980 It's been around. Yeah. I can't remember a time when it wasn't around. 00:33:59.980 --> 00:34:01.382 And since Plasma 5? 00:34:01.847 --> 00:34:05.130 Yeah. Yeah. And it's been good. 00:34:05.130 --> 00:34:05.330 Yeah. 00:34:05.330 --> 00:34:07.426 Like, I have no complaints. Do you? 00:34:07.570 --> 00:34:10.990 No. No, and there's lots of community options, but Ocean, you know, 00:34:10.990 --> 00:34:13.253 Ocean's going to be like a complete look. 00:34:14.026 --> 00:34:18.140 They say, We took up the idea of creating a design system for Plasma that accounts 00:34:18.140 --> 00:34:21.430 for most, if not all, of the necessary graphical building blocks that developers 00:34:21.430 --> 00:34:25.500 could use that preserve consistency between graphics and code and deliver a 00:34:25.500 --> 00:34:27.342 cohesive experience for users. 00:34:29.109 --> 00:34:31.755 You can find some early designs online, and they do look kind of good. 00:34:32.196 --> 00:34:36.983 I think the real interesting part is that it's being built on something called Unions. 00:34:36.983 --> 00:34:37.619 Yes. 00:34:37.751 --> 00:34:44.109 So it's like a concrete styling effort, reaching Plasma, Cute Quick, 00:34:44.787 --> 00:34:49.931 and Cute Widgets in 6.8. And the idea is you can have one editable style source. 00:34:50.395 --> 00:34:54.893 Accely Lieutenant calls it the first shared editable source of truth for Breeze, 00:34:54.893 --> 00:34:58.413 Cute Widgets, and Cute Quick styles, excluding color schemes. 00:34:58.413 --> 00:34:59.473 Okay, so some work in progress. 00:34:59.473 --> 00:35:00.493 Hence the name Union. 00:35:00.493 --> 00:35:04.223 Yeah, exactly. Because the idea, like before, you could not have a single source 00:35:04.223 --> 00:35:06.703 of truth for both of those things. And they would totally diverge and you had 00:35:06.703 --> 00:35:08.853 to actively maintain keeping them in sync. 00:35:09.347 --> 00:35:14.113 And under the hood, it took roughly 9,000 lines of handwritten code against 00:35:14.113 --> 00:35:19.123 a poorly documented Q-style API. So you had to do a bunch of reverse engineering 00:35:19.123 --> 00:35:21.020 to even make this effort possible. 00:35:21.893 --> 00:35:25.443 I mean, so, like, when you have to build a system, you know it's going to be 00:35:25.443 --> 00:35:27.963 kind of a big visual change. 00:35:27.963 --> 00:35:32.303 Yeah, it's not just a new theme. It's like a new system for how to do consistent 00:35:32.303 --> 00:35:33.453 theming across the desktop. 00:35:33.453 --> 00:35:37.713 Yeah. Oh, this is going to be great, boys. This is going to be great. 00:35:37.713 --> 00:35:40.663 I'm really, you know, that's the kind of stuff I love seeing them work away. 00:35:40.663 --> 00:35:43.583 And we have some more information in the show notes, including, 00:35:43.583 --> 00:35:44.843 I think, a talk that got into it. 00:35:44.843 --> 00:35:49.003 Yep, there's a talk there. And, well, yeah, links in the show notes. 00:35:49.003 --> 00:35:55.350 Yeah. Okay, this next story is sort of Plasma adjacent, but seems like great news for them. 00:35:56.029 --> 00:36:03.323 Framework's new 2026 12-inch laptop can now be pre-built with Fedora KDE Plasma along other configs. 00:36:03.323 --> 00:36:04.481 Now, isn't that nice? 00:36:04.725 --> 00:36:05.811 That is so cool. 00:36:06.600 --> 00:36:08.237 I mean, I think that's just how I would order it now. 00:36:09.323 --> 00:36:13.382 So it's not just like KDE supported, but it's like an actual factory operating 00:36:13.382 --> 00:36:15.894 system choice. They must be like doing some Q&A on that. 00:36:16.097 --> 00:36:16.932 I assume so. 00:36:17.272 --> 00:36:20.472 That is so great. I mean, I'm sure it's, you know, it's the DIY version, 00:36:20.472 --> 00:36:23.313 but it's a nice, it's like, it's a milestone. 00:36:23.847 --> 00:36:25.733 Another OEM that's approachable. 00:36:26.209 --> 00:36:30.832 And it, I mean, that says a lot about the entire software stack involved, I think, right? Mm-hmm. 00:36:31.432 --> 00:36:35.462 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. KDE Linux has also been building a recovery more into the OS. 00:36:35.462 --> 00:36:37.564 We talked about with the funding standpoint. 00:36:38.266 --> 00:36:43.582 And one of those could be an image rollback for bad updates and a factory reset 00:36:43.582 --> 00:36:45.912 that I mentioned as well when a system needs a clean start. 00:36:45.912 --> 00:36:50.352 Yeah, I liked the pitch here. Nate kind of said, a failed update should produce, 00:36:50.637 --> 00:36:56.362 oh, this broke, not my laptop doesn't boot anymore. And I have a big exam tomorrow. 00:36:56.362 --> 00:36:59.366 Like you say, when they're building KDE Linux, which is their OS, 00:36:59.784 --> 00:37:01.880 they are thinking more holistically about all this stuff. 00:37:03.237 --> 00:37:06.945 Yeah right i mean and then like with the factory reset thing it doesn't have 00:37:06.945 --> 00:37:10.185 to be a big deal it can just be something you've designed in so it's super smooth 00:37:10.185 --> 00:37:12.333 and reliable and the data's never at risk and. 00:37:12.513 --> 00:37:16.795 The uh investment in qa recently too they said they're catching failures across the whole desktop. 00:37:16.795 --> 00:37:20.385 Yeah um a full system integration test which is one of the best kinds of tests 00:37:20.664 --> 00:37:23.636 uh caught plasma crashing at startup with a panel missing, 00:37:24.228 --> 00:37:27.125 and that's the kind of thing right that like can really suck if you've shipped 00:37:27.125 --> 00:37:30.108 something out the door and that doesn't happen but it can be an expensive test 00:37:30.416 --> 00:37:33.545 to like really make smoothly and not be flaky because you probably got to spin 00:37:33.545 --> 00:37:37.225 up vms and like have something they can tell when a panel is missing and, 00:37:37.858 --> 00:37:42.665 yeah but it pays a lot of dividends and that's the kind of boring detail you 00:37:42.665 --> 00:37:45.635 know takes time to get right work that funding really helps with. 00:37:45.635 --> 00:37:49.585 You mentioned you've been playing with the plasma or is it a plasma mcp or kwin. 00:37:49.585 --> 00:37:50.845 Mcp kwin mcp kwin. 00:37:50.845 --> 00:37:55.515 Mcp could that be used for that type of debugging could you use it to like take 00:37:55.515 --> 00:37:57.815 screenshots of the desktop and see if panels aren't rendering? 00:37:57.815 --> 00:37:59.417 Yeah. Yeah, you definitely could. 00:38:00.037 --> 00:38:04.252 What else? Can the MCP... Does it, like, read open windows? Can it... 00:38:04.595 --> 00:38:07.305 Yeah. Yeah, and it'll look at the accessibility information. 00:38:08.285 --> 00:38:10.765 Yeah, it's got a fair amount of stuff. It also has a lot of support for virtual, 00:38:10.765 --> 00:38:13.335 like, you can have a whole virtual session, if you want, for your agent to use, 00:38:13.335 --> 00:38:14.345 that doesn't mess with yours. 00:38:14.345 --> 00:38:15.035 That is, I think. 00:38:15.035 --> 00:38:16.106 That'd be one of Plasma's... 00:38:16.993 --> 00:38:20.495 Yeah, that's, I think, one of Plasma's structural advantages right there. 00:38:20.495 --> 00:38:23.765 Yeah, the project even says, K1 MCP provides everything needed for end-to-end 00:38:23.765 --> 00:38:25.481 GUI testing and desktop automation. 00:38:26.171 --> 00:38:30.255 So you can have it spin up like is it a separate activity like how is it at 00:38:30.255 --> 00:38:32.295 the do you know what it is at the plasma level what it's doing to get to this 00:38:32.295 --> 00:38:34.315 virtual desktop that doesn't interfere with your desktop. 00:38:34.524 --> 00:38:36.805 No you know i've actually haven't tried switching into. 00:38:36.805 --> 00:38:40.965 It but if it's just activities yeah it could be i don't know but that is so 00:38:40.965 --> 00:38:45.385 cool that is really neat um it's a bright future there for if you know using 00:38:45.385 --> 00:38:48.755 that kind of stuff to debug and and especially when you're porting an application 00:38:48.755 --> 00:38:50.278 to linux it's got to speed up the process, 00:38:51.317 --> 00:38:53.604 And then, which we mentioned at the start, but I think we should just spend 00:38:53.964 --> 00:38:59.206 a moment on it, the KDE as a project is hitting 30 years old. 00:39:00.030 --> 00:39:04.874 And Kevin Ottens analyzed roughly 30 years of KDE commit history and found that 00:39:04.874 --> 00:39:08.934 the community peaked around 180 active contributors and then fell to roughly 00:39:08.934 --> 00:39:14.148 110 around 2017 and has climbed back to 140 today. 00:39:14.995 --> 00:39:17.503 But the amount that they're contributing, though, I think is interesting. 00:39:18.504 --> 00:39:23.563 KDE is now producing roughly the same level of commit activity as its 2010 peak with fewer people. 00:39:24.376 --> 00:39:27.946 And 2023 contained the highest commit count week in the data set. 00:39:28.132 --> 00:39:30.294 Sounds like things are moving into a pretty good clip. 00:39:30.294 --> 00:39:34.564 And then this is interesting. I thought maybe we'd play a little bit of this, 00:39:34.564 --> 00:39:37.797 even though it's going to get us in trouble on YouTube. But screw them. Screw them. 00:39:38.262 --> 00:39:42.215 It's got some of our favorite people in KDE in this trailer. 00:39:42.737 --> 00:39:46.914 KDE, the documentary trailer, the story of free software underdogs. 00:39:46.914 --> 00:39:50.010 and it's a full-length film that's coming October 14th. 00:39:50.329 --> 00:39:52.663 We'll put a link to the trailer, but we'll play a little bit of it for you too. 00:39:53.551 --> 00:39:55.582 So you can get a sense of it. 00:39:55.960 --> 00:40:00.202 I always describe myself as a relative newcomer to Katie. I've only been here 10 years. 00:40:05.804 --> 00:40:11.563 Using Linux on the desktop was tedious. Microsoft software at that time was 00:40:11.563 --> 00:40:16.677 really, really bad. I mean, it was normal that a computer would regularly crash. 00:40:18.790 --> 00:40:25.133 I saw a post on Usenet. There was this guy who had posted a call to arms to 00:40:25.133 --> 00:40:27.521 create a desktop environment. 00:40:30.365 --> 00:40:35.963 The initial vision of KDE was very much driven by how can we make Linux successful 00:40:35.963 --> 00:40:37.923 and more appealing to the general public. 00:40:38.167 --> 00:40:42.123 And the cool story is that it's been a bunch of self-organizing people who saw 00:40:42.123 --> 00:40:44.738 that vision and for one reason or another, that spoke to them. 00:40:44.976 --> 00:40:47.234 And they got involved and they made it happen. 00:40:49.773 --> 00:40:53.544 So today I learned that Aaron Saigo has a badass fish tank. That's pretty cool. 00:40:53.736 --> 00:40:57.703 Yeah, so the full film, like I said, October 14th, from the, 00:40:57.703 --> 00:41:00.969 I think it's CultRepo is the YouTube channel that we've been publishing that. 00:41:01.265 --> 00:41:02.443 I'm definitely going to watch that. 00:41:02.443 --> 00:41:03.325 Of course. 00:41:03.482 --> 00:41:06.163 That is really great. I mean, 30 years is a huge deal. So we got a whole bunch 00:41:06.163 --> 00:41:10.773 of links in the show notes with different information, more details on the remote 00:41:10.773 --> 00:41:15.653 desktop plans and where it's at right now and what you can get if you need to 00:41:15.653 --> 00:41:18.180 use it. It is working to some degree and what you can expect. 00:41:18.395 --> 00:41:20.483 Maybe you want to try it and report back to us. 00:41:20.483 --> 00:41:24.883 I'd love to know. I also would like to know your thoughts on the LM-assisted 00:41:24.883 --> 00:41:27.219 contributions to projects like Plasma and Gnome. 00:41:27.811 --> 00:41:30.963 If you agree with me that if Gnome goes one way, would it maybe be a good idea 00:41:30.963 --> 00:41:34.313 for Plasma to go another way just from a differentiator standpoint? 00:41:34.313 --> 00:41:36.112 Boost.JupiterBroadcasting.com. 00:41:36.507 --> 00:41:38.620 Let us know your thoughts. But friends... 00:41:39.967 --> 00:41:43.455 System D has a new release that we thought was worth your attention. 00:41:43.455 --> 00:41:47.795 Well, Wes in particular has been getting excited about System D 262. 00:41:47.795 --> 00:41:48.245 Yes, indeed. 00:41:48.245 --> 00:41:51.413 Every now and then one of these catches your attention, Wes. 00:41:52.615 --> 00:41:56.165 And I see at the very top of the list, which is fun surprise because I know 00:41:56.165 --> 00:42:00.527 there's K-Exec stuff in here, but the very top of the list, you have smaller container builds. 00:42:01.003 --> 00:42:05.295 Yeah, they're just doing some stuff to support like really lean uses of System 00:42:05.295 --> 00:42:12.305 D now. So the PID1 part of SystemD now embeds 21 of the system unit files that 00:42:12.305 --> 00:42:14.302 it sort of needs to properly function. 00:42:14.627 --> 00:42:18.965 So even if you can't load those core units from disk, SystemD can just fall 00:42:18.965 --> 00:42:19.955 back to its built-in copy. 00:42:19.955 --> 00:42:22.925 Now, anything that is installed on disk will always take precedence. 00:42:22.925 --> 00:42:26.285 It's really just meant as a default, but includes stuff like reboot, 00:42:26.285 --> 00:42:29.465 shutdown, and k-exec, and the usual boot targets. 00:42:29.465 --> 00:42:34.005 And so the intention is just like that single PID1 has everything that it really 00:42:34.005 --> 00:42:38.415 needs in a rescue or a super small embedded or, you know, just whatever kind 00:42:38.415 --> 00:42:41.700 of situation where you might not have access to the disk you expect. 00:42:42.309 --> 00:42:47.585 Let me ask you this. Is there any conceivable possible way I could use that 00:42:47.585 --> 00:42:49.443 to run a user environment in PID1? 00:42:50.917 --> 00:42:54.795 I'm sure we could hack something together. It also can now be built as a single 00:42:54.795 --> 00:42:56.607 statically linked multi-call binary. 00:42:56.909 --> 00:42:57.587 Wow. 00:42:57.965 --> 00:43:01.535 Yeah, the same executable that can act as PID1. It can kind of do the whole thing. 00:43:01.867 --> 00:43:02.455 Jeez. 00:43:02.455 --> 00:43:06.556 Yeah. Also aimed at small containers, appliance-style stuff. 00:43:06.784 --> 00:43:09.302 You're not going to see it on your normal distro build. 00:43:09.650 --> 00:43:12.082 And it can't open libraries dynamically. 00:43:12.448 --> 00:43:15.405 And it kind of has some simplified stuff. So it is limited, which is part of 00:43:15.405 --> 00:43:18.825 why you're not going to use it in more general cases. But if you do want a super 00:43:18.825 --> 00:43:22.245 portable, ready-to-go thing, it's no longer a big complex beast. 00:43:22.245 --> 00:43:23.907 You have a single binary. 00:43:24.505 --> 00:43:26.601 Is it even my system if I can't run as PID1? 00:43:27.965 --> 00:43:28.435 Debatable. 00:43:28.773 --> 00:43:29.474 I don't think it is. 00:43:29.764 --> 00:43:31.326 See, this is why you don't like Android. 00:43:32.023 --> 00:43:33.236 If I can't run as PID1, 00:43:34.716 --> 00:43:37.224 I mean, I'm not saying I should, but I should be able to. All right. 00:43:37.224 --> 00:43:38.274 Okay. But thank you. That's good to know. 00:43:38.274 --> 00:43:39.864 Well, it is open source. You can fork it. 00:43:39.864 --> 00:43:40.744 I mean, maybe. 00:43:40.744 --> 00:43:41.449 And find out. 00:43:41.605 --> 00:43:45.274 What about, I thought I saw something in the feature list about unattended installs, 00:43:45.274 --> 00:43:47.062 which could be right up our alley in the future. 00:43:48.324 --> 00:43:50.834 Like systemd first boot equals headless or something like that. 00:43:50.834 --> 00:43:52.646 Yeah. It skips all interactive prompts. 00:43:53.430 --> 00:43:55.324 That's so great. Take that, Mac. 00:43:56.224 --> 00:44:00.264 It applies all the settings that can be inferred automatically or supplied through 00:44:00.264 --> 00:44:01.546 stuff like systemd credentials. 00:44:01.975 --> 00:44:09.522 Nice. So Wes, what would you say to someone who kept believing that systemd does too much? 00:44:09.940 --> 00:44:12.534 Because this sounds like a lot Oh. 00:44:12.534 --> 00:44:15.654 He's just warming up too Well. 00:44:15.654 --> 00:44:20.884 I mean, it's in the name, right? It's the system daemon If you think that it's 00:44:20.884 --> 00:44:25.874 intentionally still just an init system That hasn't been true for a long time. 00:44:26.362 --> 00:44:27.394 Gotta reframe on that. 00:44:27.394 --> 00:44:31.594 One But there is a whole bunch of stuff that is kind of special I'm not saying 00:44:31.594 --> 00:44:34.434 systemd is perfect, but there's a lot of stuff that is kind of special to the 00:44:34.434 --> 00:44:39.056 kernel user space boundary, especially as we try to put together more secure systems, 00:44:39.457 --> 00:44:43.810 systems with more assurances or guarantees or sometimes performance. 00:44:44.176 --> 00:44:47.094 And you can kind of enable some really neat workflows like we're about to talk about. 00:44:47.094 --> 00:44:49.444 Yeah. Okay. So let's talk about that. Because I think, are we about to talk 00:44:49.444 --> 00:44:50.724 about the live update orchestrator? 00:44:50.724 --> 00:44:51.354 Indeed. 00:44:51.354 --> 00:44:56.604 Yeah. This is pretty neat, Wes. All right. And I think Kegzec comes in here. 00:44:56.604 --> 00:44:59.834 Right? Yes. Of course it does. Live Update Orchestrator and KExec Handover are 00:44:59.834 --> 00:45:00.848 sort of kernel features. 00:45:01.185 --> 00:45:06.764 Systemd is doing the useful part of bridging this. And the idea is when you 00:45:06.764 --> 00:45:09.254 KExec, right, you don't have to reboot. 00:45:09.376 --> 00:45:11.611 You just get to load a new kernel. 00:45:12.598 --> 00:45:14.906 But after that, the rest of it feels like a normal boot, right? 00:45:14.906 --> 00:45:17.926 All your application state is wiped out. Nothing's running. You just come back 00:45:17.926 --> 00:45:20.743 to like your regular, whatever your computer starts up as. 00:45:21.567 --> 00:45:25.766 Okay, so that lets you avoid things like, you know, super slow post on your 00:45:25.766 --> 00:45:29.226 BIOS, all the stuff getting loaded up there. It's really nice for security. 00:45:29.226 --> 00:45:31.986 Especially if you've got, like we mentioned before, large storage array controllers. 00:45:31.986 --> 00:45:38.556 Yeah, certainly. But to make that even better, you're now able to actually hand memory between K execs. 00:45:38.666 --> 00:45:39.096 Yes. 00:45:39.096 --> 00:45:39.406 Whoa. 00:45:39.446 --> 00:45:43.677 So because you're not actually rebooting, nothing actually physically happens to the memory. 00:45:44.506 --> 00:45:48.076 This is a feature that just, it was always possible. The stuff just hadn't been 00:45:48.076 --> 00:45:49.575 tied together to make it actually work. 00:45:49.801 --> 00:45:53.496 And so we've seen a progression. Stuff started appearing in 2.6.1, 00:45:53.496 --> 00:46:00.268 but it gets really nice in 2.6.2 because you can basically ask for what's called the L-U-O session. 00:46:00.599 --> 00:46:03.002 So it's put in your systemd unit file. 00:46:03.548 --> 00:46:07.786 And then systemd will create the session and gives you a file descriptor for it. 00:46:08.546 --> 00:46:12.566 and then why that's useful is then what you do is you uh you open what's called 00:46:12.566 --> 00:46:17.186 a mem fd which is a file descriptor but it never lives on disk it's just totally 00:46:17.186 --> 00:46:21.336 in memory um but you can attach that to a session. 00:46:21.336 --> 00:46:23.308 Ah okay is that session live somewhere on disk. 00:46:23.517 --> 00:46:27.706 No none of it none of it lives on disk why do you need a disk even yeah it's 00:46:27.706 --> 00:46:33.666 essentially like systemd hands you a way to to tell it what memory your application is using, 00:46:34.206 --> 00:46:38.466 so that it can be aware of that right and then so after that you You can mmap 00:46:38.466 --> 00:46:40.616 it, you can write to it like a file. 00:46:40.616 --> 00:46:43.553 You can just, it's a file in memory or regular memory if you want. 00:46:43.769 --> 00:46:45.928 Use it like normal to store your application state. 00:46:46.584 --> 00:46:50.198 But the benefit of doing this, right, is that systemd knows about it. 00:46:50.198 --> 00:46:54.448 And so when systemd goes to do the kexec, because it sort of does most of a 00:46:54.448 --> 00:47:00.347 shutdown or a reboot and then triggers the kexec, what it does is it knows what memory it gave you. 00:47:00.632 --> 00:47:04.440 It serializes that for you. It gets it all stored, tells the kernel about it. 00:47:05.188 --> 00:47:07.098 And then the kexec happens. 00:47:07.325 --> 00:47:07.708 Right. 00:47:07.708 --> 00:47:08.768 That memory is preserved. 00:47:08.768 --> 00:47:09.009 Yep. 00:47:09.114 --> 00:47:10.638 The new systemd starts back up. 00:47:10.638 --> 00:47:11.093 Right. 00:47:12.957 --> 00:47:16.642 Because this is still in the same configuration, it goes and grabs the memory, 00:47:17.065 --> 00:47:18.628 and then when it reloads... 00:47:18.628 --> 00:47:22.328 And it's using, is the live update orchestrator, it's like storing that? 00:47:22.888 --> 00:47:25.188 Well, it makes sure that when you do the k-exec, nothing touches it. 00:47:26.148 --> 00:47:29.128 And then it's available again to the kernel after the fresh k-exec. 00:47:29.128 --> 00:47:29.501 Okay. 00:47:29.988 --> 00:47:32.948 And so the kernel knows, and then it hands that to systemd. And then systemd 00:47:32.948 --> 00:47:37.168 sees this and knows that, and then it hands it back to your application. 00:47:37.168 --> 00:47:41.388 And so as long as your application only ever like keeps that kind of stuff in 00:47:41.388 --> 00:47:45.168 this thing it reboots as if nothing's happened wow i mean it's still like a 00:47:45.168 --> 00:47:48.848 fresh boot right but when it when it goes to just load the memory and whatever 00:47:48.848 --> 00:47:50.994 it stayed was there it gets what it had. 00:47:51.728 --> 00:47:56.998 It's kind of like live hibernation in a way that's what it feels like without 00:47:56.998 --> 00:47:59.191 the bios stuff get rid of that bios stuff. 00:47:59.354 --> 00:48:00.998 I hate that bios stuff. 00:48:00.998 --> 00:48:04.158 And so one of the use cases that some of the kernel developers were were talking 00:48:04.158 --> 00:48:07.108 about and makes total sense is something like an in-memory cache, right? 00:48:07.688 --> 00:48:11.016 Like, okay, you've got some sort of security vulnerability, you need to do a 00:48:11.231 --> 00:48:13.785 quote-unquote reboot to get the new kernel or whatever. 00:48:13.988 --> 00:48:18.104 Stupid LLM found a terrible kernel bug that's been in there for 20 years. Yeah. 00:48:18.840 --> 00:48:21.465 Well, normally, right, if you do that, you're going to lose whatever's in cache. 00:48:21.465 --> 00:48:24.835 Maybe you save it all to disk and then do a disk load to get it back, right? 00:48:24.835 --> 00:48:25.495 That would be a nice trick. 00:48:25.495 --> 00:48:29.445 You can totally do that. But if you take advantage of structuring your memory 00:48:29.445 --> 00:48:33.155 in a way that the kernel handoff and the live update orchestrator are aware 00:48:33.155 --> 00:48:34.955 of, you don't even have to do that. 00:48:34.955 --> 00:48:37.545 And, of course, you know, for certain applications, they're going to build just 00:48:37.545 --> 00:48:40.248 for this because there's going to be certain workloads where this is necessary. Yeah. 00:48:40.404 --> 00:48:44.975 And you could do this all manually, but it's a lot, right? And then systemd, 00:48:44.975 --> 00:48:47.121 you can just make it one more thing that's in your unit file. 00:48:47.277 --> 00:48:50.465 Oh, that's pretty cool. Now, there is going to be some stuff that you can't 00:48:50.465 --> 00:48:52.625 probably expect to survive, I would imagine. 00:48:52.625 --> 00:48:52.865 Yeah. 00:48:52.865 --> 00:48:53.645 Probably limited. 00:48:53.645 --> 00:48:56.385 Yeah. Right now, it only preserves memfds across reboots. So, 00:48:56.385 --> 00:49:01.025 like, sockets don't cross. You know, you have to reopen files if you have them on disk. 00:49:01.025 --> 00:49:03.415 So, you're going to drop network connections, logins. 00:49:03.415 --> 00:49:08.555 It's still a lot of a reboot. But for the memory you're willing to opt into 00:49:08.555 --> 00:49:10.666 this API for, that can remain. 00:49:11.060 --> 00:49:14.215 Yeah. And you've got to imagine for a cloud or a server farm that needs to reboot 00:49:14.215 --> 00:49:15.645 really quick, totally worth it. 00:49:16.025 --> 00:49:18.695 So it's the kind of feature you design around, not the kind of feature you just 00:49:18.695 --> 00:49:22.315 get to take advantage of. But if you do, it has some serious benefits. 00:49:22.315 --> 00:49:25.505 Yeah, it's all the primitives you need. And now, so what they've really done 00:49:25.505 --> 00:49:28.745 is they've plumbed in the stuff that the Linux kernel could support into SystemD. 00:49:28.745 --> 00:49:32.062 So SystemD is doing that crucial piece there that was missing before. 00:49:32.218 --> 00:49:38.226 Yes. And along with that, you now have a k-exec count that's reported by the kernel in SystemD. 00:49:38.511 --> 00:49:41.425 And so your application can be aware even of, say, like, oh, 00:49:41.425 --> 00:49:44.675 if it's a cold reboot, I need to read from disk. But if it's, 00:49:44.675 --> 00:49:49.455 you know, if k-exec counts over one, then I know I need to like just use the same memfds. 00:49:49.455 --> 00:49:52.335 Once a year, we should check in on your k-exec count. 00:49:52.335 --> 00:49:54.028 Yeah, this sounds like the next challenge. 00:49:54.318 --> 00:49:56.045 I'm going to have to optimize this benchmark. 00:49:57.069 --> 00:50:01.621 So Wes, what would you say to someone who said that system D is just doing too much? 00:50:02.300 --> 00:50:06.289 Because it's like you're still adding more on top of that. 00:50:07.389 --> 00:50:10.529 I would say they should subscribe to the Linux Unplugged RSS feed. 00:50:10.529 --> 00:50:10.849 Yeah, yeah. 00:50:11.209 --> 00:50:11.649 Nicely done. 00:50:11.649 --> 00:50:15.419 There you go. Yeah. What else are you liking there, Wes? What else are you liking 00:50:15.419 --> 00:50:18.289 in there? There's other changes in Systemd. 2.6 to 2. 00:50:18.289 --> 00:50:22.889 Yeah, Systemd VMspawn, which is their little virtualization thing built into 00:50:22.889 --> 00:50:25.779 Systemd for Brent there. Because he loves everything inside Systemd. 00:50:25.829 --> 00:50:26.949 It is actually kind of handy. 00:50:27.429 --> 00:50:31.629 It now supports Intel Trust Domain Extensions, TDX, alongside AMD's. 00:50:31.649 --> 00:50:32.769 But Brent's been asking for that. 00:50:32.769 --> 00:50:36.589 S-E-V-S-M-P for confidential virtual machines. And so this is the idea that 00:50:36.589 --> 00:50:39.869 you can have virtual machines that have encrypted memory and are much harder 00:50:39.869 --> 00:50:43.719 to take advantage of from the host side, which is something you used to only 00:50:43.719 --> 00:50:46.709 see sort of like on big cloud hypervisor sort of situations. 00:50:46.709 --> 00:50:50.149 But now it's just right there. Yeah, super accessible, easy to use. 00:50:50.613 --> 00:50:56.019 And kind of nice, Systemd CoreDump can now receive kernel-generated core dumps 00:50:56.019 --> 00:50:58.630 through Linux 6.17's socket protocol. 00:50:59.653 --> 00:51:00.120 Wow. 00:51:00.120 --> 00:51:00.547 Mm-hmm. 00:51:01.098 --> 00:51:04.760 Huh. So, Wes, what would you say to the criticism that SystemD is doing too much? 00:51:05.980 --> 00:51:07.820 I say it's not doing nearly enough. 00:51:09.600 --> 00:51:10.320 Okay. All right. 00:51:10.320 --> 00:51:13.680 Until it preserves the entire running system across the KExec, 00:51:13.680 --> 00:51:14.880 I mean, I'm just not going to be sass. 00:51:14.880 --> 00:51:17.680 I want to reboot and come right back to my applications exactly where they were. 00:51:18.120 --> 00:51:22.640 When I can do a live stream and reboot my system, they're there. They've made it. Yeah. 00:51:23.960 --> 00:51:25.240 And roll back when it's broken. 00:51:25.240 --> 00:51:26.400 Roll back, please. 00:51:27.080 --> 00:51:30.520 There was kind of an interesting little AI tangent in this release. 00:51:30.520 --> 00:51:33.880 There's a four-line addition to agents.md in the systemd repo, 00:51:34.780 --> 00:51:41.748 telling coding agents to prepend a two-line review marker to readme.md when source files change. 00:51:42.108 --> 00:51:47.402 It says, remove this line to confirm you've reviewed this PR before submitting. 00:51:47.704 --> 00:51:51.980 This is fascinating. So it's essentially a canary for agents that are submitting 00:51:51.980 --> 00:51:56.087 automatically to read and then sort of self-identify. Is that correct? 00:51:56.389 --> 00:52:01.270 Well, it basically tells the agent not to self-identify, but to put a marker 00:52:01.270 --> 00:52:07.145 for the human and for the reviewer that basically says, remove this once you've reviewed the PR. 00:52:07.441 --> 00:52:09.200 Oh, like to catch if somebody didn't review it. 00:52:10.222 --> 00:52:15.700 And the agent tries to tell it that the agent can only add and never remove that line. 00:52:15.700 --> 00:52:16.120 Yeah, yeah. 00:52:16.120 --> 00:52:19.922 So it's meant to be sort of an implicit human gate. 00:52:20.966 --> 00:52:24.804 So you can tell if somebody hasn't been checking their AI-generated code before they submit it. 00:52:24.804 --> 00:52:28.694 Now, it seems like it has mixed impacts. Like some agents are just sort of rejecting 00:52:28.694 --> 00:52:32.364 it with their prompt injection safety things trigger for it or similar. 00:52:32.364 --> 00:52:37.644 But I thought it was kind of an interesting idea, or at least it's one natural 00:52:37.644 --> 00:52:39.974 experiment out there in the wide world of open source to see. 00:52:40.234 --> 00:52:40.725 I think you can filter on that. 00:52:41.543 --> 00:52:44.534 Yeah, it gets me thinking about our previous conversation. And maybe that's 00:52:44.534 --> 00:52:46.153 what projects need to do is, 00:52:47.075 --> 00:52:54.074 add definitions of how these tools can make PRs more friendly to the project 00:52:54.074 --> 00:52:56.974 instead of everybody just kind of willy-nilly doing what they want, 00:52:56.974 --> 00:52:59.074 which is what it sounds like is currently happening, 00:52:59.954 --> 00:53:06.364 with well-defined ways for LLMs and AI agents and all of that stuff to interact 00:53:06.364 --> 00:53:08.862 with the project. Maybe that's the better way. 00:53:09.819 --> 00:53:13.174 Yeah, and anything that makes it easier for the reviewers on the other end to 00:53:13.174 --> 00:53:15.534 go through and be like, okay, well, this is one I know I have to send back. 00:53:15.534 --> 00:53:18.054 This is one I have to send back because they didn't remove the canary. 00:53:18.054 --> 00:53:20.474 Right. This is still here. You obviously haven't had a human who's actually 00:53:20.474 --> 00:53:22.094 interacted with it yet, at least if it works. 00:53:22.094 --> 00:53:22.427 Yeah. 00:53:22.572 --> 00:53:26.564 And maybe you could then argue perhaps like, okay, well, if your LLM is like 00:53:26.564 --> 00:53:29.644 doing that and attempting to remove the canary and it doesn't seem like you 00:53:29.644 --> 00:53:32.334 actually reviewed it, that's a misconfiguration. You're not using your stuff 00:53:32.334 --> 00:53:35.018 appropriately. It needs to be able to handle our agent's instructions. 00:53:35.320 --> 00:53:41.032 System D version 262 came out five days ago as we record episode 686. 00:53:41.455 --> 00:53:45.449 It'll trickle down to a distro near you, depending on, of course, your package cadence. 00:53:46.099 --> 00:53:49.594 But I see why this was a good release. And a couple of things in there I could 00:53:49.594 --> 00:53:51.364 see you playing with particularly. 00:53:51.364 --> 00:53:54.354 It's not a thing, you know, maybe it's for specialized use cases, 00:53:54.354 --> 00:53:57.454 but I bet we see in a few years that things have gotten built on top of it. 00:53:57.454 --> 00:54:01.494 Oh, yes, yes. People will show up at job sites and their workplaces. 00:54:01.494 --> 00:54:03.863 They'll get hired at a company that has a big infrastructure, 00:54:04.304 --> 00:54:05.284 and they'll just discover that 00:54:05.284 --> 00:54:07.351 they've been using this stuff behind the scenes for a couple of years. 00:54:16.802 --> 00:54:21.571 My goodness, we have some feedback. This one says, hey, guys, 00:54:21.571 --> 00:54:24.731 I'm Ilya Pukulov, the developer of Fluxcast. 00:54:25.151 --> 00:54:31.807 Back in June, episode about 672, Wes picked up my app as his Wes pick. Wait a second. 00:54:32.224 --> 00:54:35.021 I didn't think we did Wes picks. We just got picks, right? 00:54:35.021 --> 00:54:38.851 Uh-huh. Well, when it's one that's picked by Wes, it's a Wes pick. 00:54:38.851 --> 00:54:41.129 That's right. Patented. Well, pat and petty. 00:54:41.460 --> 00:54:44.491 I wanted to say a huge thank you to you. 00:54:44.911 --> 00:54:49.391 And your shout out gave the project like 150 plus stars on GitHub and brought 00:54:49.391 --> 00:54:53.622 in amazing contributors. Since then, we've been working nonstop. 00:54:54.249 --> 00:55:00.506 We just shipped version 0.2.7, which addresses the exact issues you touched upon in that episode. 00:55:00.791 --> 00:55:07.611 We've stabilized the core, Miracast, and WFD pipeline, fixed some bugs and added 00:55:07.611 --> 00:55:13.620 comprehensive denial of service boundaries and Mac verification to secure the network plane. 00:55:14.990 --> 00:55:19.887 To make it a true ecosystem platform, we also rolled out .deb packages and an 00:55:19.887 --> 00:55:22.500 automated stable AUR package. 00:55:22.709 --> 00:55:27.717 Thanks again for shining a light on a small, independent, open-source utility. You guys rock. 00:55:27.717 --> 00:55:31.937 And as a reminder, Fluxcast lets you stream your Linux desktop to a smart TV, 00:55:32.577 --> 00:55:35.767 via Miracast, DLNA, or Chromecast. 00:55:35.767 --> 00:55:37.047 Yeah, it's a very neat little project. 00:55:37.047 --> 00:55:37.687 It is. 00:55:37.687 --> 00:55:40.137 That's so wonderful. Thank you for writing in and letting us know. 00:55:40.137 --> 00:55:44.067 I'm glad we could be of service. and super glad to see that it's continuing 00:55:44.067 --> 00:55:47.938 to get new features and getting better support. 00:55:48.637 --> 00:55:51.717 Is this what you were doing this morning? Is this what you were doing this morning? 00:55:52.337 --> 00:55:52.817 A little bit. 00:55:52.817 --> 00:55:56.167 You're like, oh, I'm running late. I got up early, but I'm running late because 00:55:56.167 --> 00:55:58.657 you were making a flake, a flux cast flake. 00:55:59.097 --> 00:56:03.227 I see the last commit was five hours, 18 hours ago, and then the last commit 00:56:03.227 --> 00:56:06.200 was five hours ago, which was this morning. 00:56:07.164 --> 00:56:10.257 Well, you know, you had to clean things up a little bit. Well, 00:56:10.257 --> 00:56:12.857 I saw all the hard work they were doing with packaging, and I just wanted to, 00:56:12.857 --> 00:56:15.047 you know, it works great on NixOS, so, like, why not? 00:56:15.047 --> 00:56:20.629 Why not make a flake? So there's a flake available for Fluxcast. Very nice. 00:56:22.469 --> 00:56:25.437 I want to give a shout-out to a dude named Ben who wrote in, 00:56:25.437 --> 00:56:29.897 and we covered his feedback in the pre-show, and also Freak's Matrix feedback 00:56:29.897 --> 00:56:31.810 was also in the bootleg as well. 00:56:32.669 --> 00:56:36.297 So there you can find that bootleg if you become a member, and links to Wes's 00:56:36.297 --> 00:56:38.367 flake in the show notes for all that, right? 00:56:38.367 --> 00:56:40.047 And Fluxcast itself. 00:56:40.047 --> 00:56:40.877 Yeah, of course. 00:56:45.585 --> 00:56:48.477 Let's do some boost, boys. We are trying to get us down to Texas, 00:56:48.477 --> 00:56:53.507 and Devator comes in with our Baller Sat boost with 100,000 sats. 00:56:53.507 --> 00:56:53.957 Oh. 00:56:54.832 --> 00:56:55.471 Yes. 00:57:03.563 --> 00:57:06.419 Dev writes, just trying to get rid of my fountain sat so I can uninstall. 00:57:07.278 --> 00:57:10.729 In this age of super custom software rapidly created by AI, there's no need 00:57:10.729 --> 00:57:13.499 to put up with bugs. I created my own podcasting app. 00:57:13.499 --> 00:57:14.049 No way. 00:57:14.049 --> 00:57:15.269 With Android Auto. 00:57:15.269 --> 00:57:16.019 Wow. 00:57:17.877 --> 00:57:24.216 Wow. Like, I just remember waiting years for apps to add Android Auto. Mm-hmm. 00:57:26.457 --> 00:57:29.189 Dev, you should send us like a Git link to that or something. 00:57:29.189 --> 00:57:30.359 Yeah, I'm curious how you built it. 00:57:30.359 --> 00:57:34.389 Yeah, that is awesome. and of course you can use boost.jupiterbroadcasting to 00:57:34.389 --> 00:57:36.639 keep supporting Dev don't forget we love hearing from you. 00:57:37.985 --> 00:57:39.299 JK comes in with. 00:57:39.299 --> 00:57:41.529 75,001. 00:57:41.529 --> 00:57:41.729 Satoshi. 00:57:41.729 --> 00:57:42.310 Alright, 00:57:44.533 --> 00:57:47.389 not too shabby at all I like that it's got that one extra Satoshi. 00:57:48.589 --> 00:57:52.979 And that's because this was actually a late live boost last week that got rounded 00:57:52.979 --> 00:57:56.749 up into this report because it says look at me I'm the baller boost now picture 00:57:56.749 --> 00:57:59.089 the meme you know with the fingers you know I'm going to give. 00:57:59.089 --> 00:57:59.725 It to you. 00:58:03.342 --> 00:58:04.578 Thanks jk appreciate you. 00:58:05.722 --> 00:58:12.095 Well bait c boosted in 56,055 satoshis all right, 00:58:18.410 --> 00:58:22.818 Oh, hey, gang. Longtime UK listener here. You helped me get through testicular 00:58:22.818 --> 00:58:25.794 cancer along with my home lab obsession, 00:58:26.409 --> 00:58:29.945 and now run just about everything self-hosted that you can imagine. 00:58:30.444 --> 00:58:36.868 My ADHD loves shiny things, so very interested in being able to now vibe code 00:58:36.868 --> 00:58:43.546 my own stuff to help me do the crippling mundane tasks that don't give me the dopamine hit I so crave. 00:58:44.329 --> 00:58:47.331 Boy, that hits home, doesn't it? That's great. 00:58:48.213 --> 00:58:50.128 Well, thanks for listening. I'm glad we could help. 00:58:50.128 --> 00:58:54.952 Yeah. Yeah. Thanks for reaching out. And thanks for being a longtime listener, too. We appreciate you. 00:58:56.775 --> 00:59:01.098 That's not maybe quite a, you know, postal code boost, but it's at least a geolocation 00:59:01.098 --> 00:59:02.038 boost, too. And that's always fun. 00:59:02.038 --> 00:59:07.932 That is. That is. Hey, Greg, the lawyer is here with 55,555 Satoshis. 00:59:11.588 --> 00:59:18.252 Just another fascist tech hyperland loving now former KDE user and patron here. 00:59:18.652 --> 00:59:22.882 KDE can take their intolerance and bounce and thanks for always being here for 00:59:22.882 --> 00:59:26.972 the tech and not the BS. I don't know how Greg feels about it, though. Yeah. 00:59:29.052 --> 00:59:32.362 It is. I think, you know, where I reconnect with Greg, it's like when you see 00:59:32.362 --> 00:59:35.752 this really hostile anti-LM stuff come from the projects that you use, 00:59:35.752 --> 00:59:37.797 you're like, but I'm using some of these tools. 00:59:38.431 --> 00:59:40.903 So you're saying this about me. You're condemning me. 00:59:41.525 --> 00:59:44.752 And you're also someone who uses and loves free software. 00:59:44.752 --> 00:59:48.272 Yeah, and producing free software for the first time in 30 years. 00:59:48.272 --> 00:59:49.662 Yeah, that's the exciting part. 00:59:50.192 --> 00:59:50.963 Yeah, for me. 00:59:51.195 --> 00:59:57.142 Well, me too. I've been wanting to contribute to projects in this way since 00:59:57.142 --> 01:00:00.112 I knew about open source but didn't have the skills. And so there's some of 01:00:00.112 --> 01:00:03.659 us out there that feel like all of a sudden we can help our favorite projects. 01:00:04.146 --> 01:00:04.892 And if I were going, 01:00:07.132 --> 01:00:13.392 to try to submit a fix to, say, a desktop like Plasma, I would first like pass 01:00:13.392 --> 01:00:16.802 it through you and be like Wes can you take a look at this right like I would 01:00:16.802 --> 01:00:19.952 just follow a process I wouldn't just throw it over the fence never. 01:00:19.952 --> 01:00:20.882 Having looked at it. 01:00:20.882 --> 01:00:24.582 Yeah and I would try to understand what it's doing and I would ask for my friend 01:00:24.582 --> 01:00:30.087 to look at it like that just I just so I really resonate with that part of it Greg thank you very much. 01:00:31.284 --> 01:00:36.531 Moon and I at Boosin with a row of ducks. I'm using a projectivity launcher 01:00:36.531 --> 01:00:39.471 to get a nice, clean, ad-free interface on my NVIDIA Shield. 01:00:39.831 --> 01:00:42.307 Perhaps this will work for your TV device as well. 01:00:42.476 --> 01:00:44.981 Yeah, I should sideload while I can, right? 01:00:44.981 --> 01:00:45.384 Mm-hmm. 01:00:45.506 --> 01:00:49.343 What happens after the OS update comes in? You've sideloaded apps. What happens to those? 01:00:50.272 --> 01:00:54.131 That's a good question. I sideloaded on my very old, now Google TV, 01:00:55.091 --> 01:00:57.151 like screens and everything, and it's persisted the whole time. 01:00:57.631 --> 01:01:02.288 I don't think this is what I'm running on my shield, but I did replace the launcher on my shield. 01:01:02.671 --> 01:01:05.741 This looks like this. Honestly, it looks like they're just directly going after 01:01:05.741 --> 01:01:09.931 the Apple TV. It's one of the themes they have. It looks like they also if you 01:01:09.931 --> 01:01:12.681 want to make it look like a PlayStation, which I never really got the whole 01:01:12.681 --> 01:01:14.901 PlayStation swirly background thing for media. 01:01:15.551 --> 01:01:17.804 And yes, I tried. But yeah. 01:01:20.207 --> 01:01:24.451 Yeah, that's pretty. OK, so projectivity launcher, productivity launcher dot 01:01:24.451 --> 01:01:28.137 com for that. I definitely will try to get that loaded on there, Moon Knight. 01:01:29.111 --> 01:01:31.469 That looks so much better than the default Google TV stuff. 01:01:32.671 --> 01:01:37.082 Love Down Babylon comes down with 4,500 satoshis. 01:01:38.719 --> 01:01:41.807 It's our buddy, Lurks. He says, plus one for more Nostre coverage. 01:01:42.254 --> 01:01:45.715 Armada is interesting. You don't need servers. It works with Nostres and relays 01:01:45.715 --> 01:01:49.569 and can import Discord channel content and then bridges with Discord. 01:01:49.917 --> 01:01:50.115 Wow. 01:01:50.165 --> 01:01:51.020 Interesting. 01:01:51.804 --> 01:01:54.985 That is. He says, I'm also going to try playing with S3 now, 01:01:54.985 --> 01:01:56.604 and thanks for the coverage of Zola and Hugo. 01:01:56.842 --> 01:02:00.445 I want to host a static site for my own show and also my own .wellknowns for 01:02:00.445 --> 01:02:02.815 Nostre and LNURL addresses. Yes. 01:02:02.815 --> 01:02:03.530 There you go. 01:02:04.226 --> 01:02:06.553 I like it. Thank you, Lurks. Good to hear from you. 01:02:06.959 --> 01:02:08.775 Amunday, Bucin, with a row of ducks. 01:02:08.775 --> 01:02:09.838 Amunday. 01:02:11.121 --> 01:02:14.134 Sorry for the third boost in one episode, but I have to answer your question. 01:02:14.535 --> 01:02:19.385 Indo-Paccom is shorthand for the Indo-Pacific Command, which is the command 01:02:19.385 --> 01:02:23.515 structure of the military that has the responsibility in the Indo-Pacific region, a.k.a. China. 01:02:23.811 --> 01:02:26.685 You have more likely heard of Centcom, which is over the Middle East. 01:02:26.685 --> 01:02:29.871 I think this actually boost was maybe meant for TWIB, because I was asking, 01:02:30.945 --> 01:02:35.584 who Indo-Paccom was, because I guess they are running Bitcoin nodes, 01:02:35.972 --> 01:02:41.841 and they have bitcoin mining going on interesting but thank you very much monday appreciate that. 01:02:42.259 --> 01:02:48.790 Well we have gene bean here sending in two boosts for a total of 4 444 cents, 01:02:51.413 --> 01:02:55.492 Chris should totally set up a production assistant agent that reads show transcripts, 01:02:55.492 --> 01:02:59.714 looking for things you all say you're going to do or need to follow up on. 01:03:00.022 --> 01:03:03.472 It could provide you a briefing as part of your show prep in the future weeks, 01:03:03.472 --> 01:03:07.816 too. This idea comes from how he uses agents to help produce TWIP. 01:03:08.705 --> 01:03:14.572 We have to get better about how we say it, because I have transcribes of the 01:03:14.572 --> 01:03:17.332 shows, and I throw them in QMD, and I've searched through it, 01:03:17.332 --> 01:03:21.081 and we are kind of vague about how we say it. 01:03:21.458 --> 01:03:25.295 We need to be really clear about this is something we have to follow up on. Wish it'll not flick. 01:03:25.510 --> 01:03:26.741 Maybe we need a fun soundboard clip. 01:03:27.228 --> 01:03:29.882 Yeah, there you go. Thank you, Gene. That's what we need, Gene. 01:03:29.882 --> 01:03:32.342 You need soundboard suggestions that we could hit that then we just tell the 01:03:32.342 --> 01:03:34.862 bot to look for. Thank you, Bean. Appreciate you. 01:03:34.862 --> 01:03:38.542 I like that Gene's trying to meta-improve the show along with us. Perfect. 01:03:39.134 --> 01:03:41.312 By sending value and good suggestions. 01:03:41.312 --> 01:03:41.776 Yeah, uh-huh. 01:03:42.066 --> 01:03:47.002 Bean has another suggestion here for naming, Chris, your project you've wanted 01:03:47.002 --> 01:03:48.939 to work on for Ripping Media. 01:03:49.757 --> 01:03:53.322 Yeah. He suggests ARM, the automatic ripping machine. 01:03:53.322 --> 01:03:57.842 Aha! Got me, got me. But Gene, it also needs to upload and all of that. 01:03:57.842 --> 01:04:00.299 But I am definitely going to spend time with ARM. 01:04:00.758 --> 01:04:03.252 That's good, Gene. You got me. Thank you, Gene. 01:04:03.479 --> 01:04:08.413 Distro Stubo Sin with 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 Satoshis. 01:04:12.941 --> 01:04:17.498 I always wanted a GNU hat, but could not find one I liked, so I had one printed. 01:04:17.498 --> 01:04:17.882 Oh. 01:04:18.479 --> 01:04:22.398 I work in SF, but when I point at my hat, almost no one knows what it is. 01:04:22.398 --> 01:04:22.694 Sure. 01:04:23.025 --> 01:04:27.128 Sometimes I forget our corner of the world is a little beautiful bubble. 01:04:27.128 --> 01:04:28.428 It's nice to see Distro Stew again. 01:04:28.428 --> 01:04:29.908 Or maybe I'm just old. 01:04:29.908 --> 01:04:30.919 I like that hat a lot. 01:04:31.482 --> 01:04:32.539 That is a nice hat. 01:04:33.450 --> 01:04:34.488 Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. 01:04:34.488 --> 01:04:39.338 You know, Distro Stew, very creative individual. Thanks for boosting in, 01:04:39.338 --> 01:04:40.598 and thanks for sharing the neat hat. 01:04:40.598 --> 01:04:41.310 Nice to hear from you. 01:04:42.448 --> 01:04:47.835 Hey, look, it's Magnolia Mayhem, 3,777 sats. 01:04:51.295 --> 01:04:53.721 Oh, hey, Chris, how's that flat pack addiction going? 01:04:55.388 --> 01:04:58.118 Let's see how many. You know what's weird is, actually, I think they all just 01:04:58.118 --> 01:05:03.248 updated on me, but there's like 35 flat packs on this system right now. It's bad. 01:05:03.248 --> 01:05:05.658 Do you use all of them? 01:05:05.658 --> 01:05:05.888 No. 01:05:05.888 --> 01:05:09.028 Does that include the runtimes or just the apps you explicitly... 01:05:09.248 --> 01:05:10.568 Oh, yeah, it probably does include some runtimes. 01:05:10.568 --> 01:05:12.248 Because you're going to need multiple. Yeah, you do. 01:05:12.248 --> 01:05:16.098 You do. Yeah, you do, definitely. But I opened up OBS today, 01:05:16.098 --> 01:05:19.860 and it was a totally new version. So it's doing its Aurora thing. 01:05:20.510 --> 01:05:23.068 That's what you want on your production system. 01:05:23.068 --> 01:05:26.718 Yeah. Thanks, Mayhem. Thanks for the report on Twib. A dude trying stuff comes 01:05:26.718 --> 01:05:29.409 in with Rodux. That's 2,222 sats. 01:05:30.425 --> 01:05:33.728 Howdy, gents. Did you see that Jeff Geerling announced a HomeLab festival? 01:05:33.728 --> 01:05:38.288 No. That's a great idea. HomeLab where? I'll have to look. 01:05:38.288 --> 01:05:38.778 And when. 01:05:38.778 --> 01:05:42.163 Yeah. Now we have, immediately we have questions. 01:05:42.778 --> 01:05:44.868 Otter Brain boosts in with 3,000 sets. 01:05:47.736 --> 01:05:52.168 Yay, Texas Linux Fest. Wish I could join you, but looking forward to the coverage. 01:05:52.168 --> 01:05:56.098 Thank you. We will do our best. I am looking forward to it as well. 01:05:56.098 --> 01:05:56.998 Thank you for the support. 01:05:56.998 --> 01:06:03.832 Yes, appreciate you. Hey, Donnie comes in as our Fiat Baller booster, Sorry, Riley. 01:06:04.348 --> 01:06:09.888 And is sending in 123.45 in Fiat. 01:06:09.888 --> 01:06:10.208 Oh, wow. 01:06:10.688 --> 01:06:11.508 That's brilliant. 01:06:19.951 --> 01:06:22.561 That's a big, big Spaceballs boost. 01:06:28.194 --> 01:06:31.261 I adopted Tailskill, then I migrated to Nebula because of you. 01:06:31.261 --> 01:06:33.671 Now I've left Dropbox in favor of Sync Thing because of you. 01:06:33.671 --> 01:06:35.161 Thanks for providing such great motivation. 01:06:35.161 --> 01:06:36.091 Oh, we're so sorry. 01:06:36.091 --> 01:06:37.958 You've got to be careful with what you recommend, buddy. 01:06:38.144 --> 01:06:45.621 The Sync Thing transition is going so well. It has been so rock solid. It syncs so fast. I... 01:06:46.876 --> 01:06:50.612 I mean, I know I've used SingThing for moving stuff before, but never for like 01:06:50.612 --> 01:06:52.762 my day-to-day stuff that I'm actively working on. 01:06:52.762 --> 01:06:56.822 Like the main thing I'm using it for day-to-day is show notes and clip notes and stuff. 01:06:56.822 --> 01:07:01.462 And I am downloading, you know, 300, 200 megabyte clips and then I'm editing 01:07:01.462 --> 01:07:02.792 them and I'm renaming them. 01:07:02.792 --> 01:07:06.222 And all of that is just handling and I'm moving them and I'm sorting them. 01:07:06.222 --> 01:07:11.802 And it just brilliantly. And then because it has that API, whenever a file doesn't 01:07:11.802 --> 01:07:14.425 show up, I can just ask the agent, why isn't this file on this host? 01:07:14.703 --> 01:07:18.182 The agent checks the API on the different SyncThing endpoints and comes back 01:07:18.182 --> 01:07:21.809 and says, actually, this just happened, was it last week or the week before? 01:07:22.642 --> 01:07:25.803 I was trying to move a file, and for whatever reason, on this Aurora box, 01:07:26.128 --> 01:07:29.518 when I created the file, it flagged it with some sort of SE Linux metadata. 01:07:29.843 --> 01:07:31.642 And then SyncThing couldn't sync that. 01:07:31.642 --> 01:07:33.552 Kind of out of its hands, it's attempting to. 01:07:33.562 --> 01:07:37.342 And I'm like, why isn't this file anywhere? And how would you even track that 01:07:37.342 --> 01:07:41.542 down, right? And so I was able to ask the agent, hey, this file, I need, I'm, hey. 01:07:41.542 --> 01:07:42.512 And he can go investigate. 01:07:42.512 --> 01:07:47.012 Take a poke at the APIs. And it did. And it said, oh, this got flagged by SE 01:07:47.012 --> 01:07:50.358 Linux. I've SSH and Aurora resolved, and it's syncing now. 01:07:50.776 --> 01:07:52.999 What were you doing in that file, I wonder? 01:07:54.722 --> 01:07:56.666 Oh, I remember. It's because I downloaded it off the internet. 01:07:56.905 --> 01:07:58.507 And so it marks it as unsafe. 01:07:58.745 --> 01:07:59.168 Okay. 01:08:00.086 --> 01:08:03.197 Yeah, because it was like an MP3 file I downloaded. 01:08:03.783 --> 01:08:07.962 And because I downloaded it with, like, Firefox, it got some sort of metadata 01:08:07.962 --> 01:08:10.282 attached to it that it was unsafe. And then SyncThing, I guess, 01:08:10.282 --> 01:08:14.142 can detect that and respected it and didn't sync it. and how I, 01:08:14.142 --> 01:08:16.802 I mean, like such an edge case. I don't know. I've never even had that happen before. 01:08:16.982 --> 01:08:19.532 What kind of sketchy MP3s are you downloading? I don't think I want to know. 01:08:19.532 --> 01:08:21.692 I think you're really going to like SyncThing even if you don't lean into the 01:08:21.692 --> 01:08:23.695 API stuff. I mean, because that would have happened to any. 01:08:23.956 --> 01:08:28.242 But I just, I've been so happy with it. So thank you very much and put that towards the Texas fund. 01:08:29.517 --> 01:08:32.321 Anonymous comes in with 25 bucks. 01:08:34.596 --> 01:08:36.372 No message found, but we appreciate it. 01:08:36.372 --> 01:08:36.692 We do. 01:08:36.692 --> 01:08:37.502 Thank you. Whoever you are. 01:08:37.502 --> 01:08:38.242 Thank you very much. 01:08:41.666 --> 01:08:45.723 Sudo say, sure, sent in $6.66. 01:08:47.831 --> 01:08:49.133 First time web booster. 01:08:49.678 --> 01:08:50.490 Oh, great. 01:08:50.990 --> 01:08:55.493 Just a PSA. We're starting up a meetup matrix room for the Gulf Coast, 01:08:55.493 --> 01:08:57.199 which I got invited to. Wes, I saw you in there. 01:08:57.756 --> 01:09:01.643 If you're in the area, please feel free to join. Longtime listener of the show. 01:09:01.643 --> 01:09:04.896 Thanks for years of coverage on all the things. 01:09:05.488 --> 01:09:09.033 That's awesome. So the room is JB underscore golf course. Golf course. 01:09:10.013 --> 01:09:14.963 jb underscore golf coast underscore meetups colon matrix.org so it's on it's 01:09:14.963 --> 01:09:17.553 been a host on matrix.org so you just need to get on the matrix.org server to 01:09:17.553 --> 01:09:24.823 get to it that's great the jb golf coast meetups I want to say golf course so bad so bad yeah. 01:09:24.823 --> 01:09:28.110 Thanks for the various matrix folks who work together to make this happen. 01:09:28.226 --> 01:09:33.073 Yes Jimmy sent a free member boost to say how do you guys struggle to get how 01:09:33.073 --> 01:09:34.757 you guys struggle to get ads is beyond me, 01:09:35.239 --> 01:09:38.716 I've got two meta quests two and three sitting behind me thanks to Chris's recommendations 01:09:39.146 --> 01:09:42.315 they're close but the resolution is a little too low for me to use for productivity 01:09:42.716 --> 01:09:45.963 I want to live in that world but as you said it's not quite there yet yeah the 01:09:45.963 --> 01:09:50.243 quest three gets close but it is a little fuzzy on the edges but then if you 01:09:50.243 --> 01:09:52.246 go real big it's not so bad, 01:09:52.907 --> 01:09:58.340 Um, yeah, you know, we actually, I, this is going to sound like I'm boasting, but it's just what it is. 01:09:58.741 --> 01:10:02.286 Uh, we perform very well for the advertisers because when we get the right advertiser 01:10:02.286 --> 01:10:04.383 that makes sense to us, it generally makes sense to you guys. 01:10:04.865 --> 01:10:08.386 And so it just sort of clicks and it works really well. That's why Linode was 01:10:08.386 --> 01:10:11.216 on for years. That's why Ting was on for years. That's why, um, 01:10:11.802 --> 01:10:14.896 who was it after a collide? That's why collide was on forever and one password 01:10:14.896 --> 01:10:16.691 before that and et cetera, or after that. 01:10:17.230 --> 01:10:21.346 But so once we generally secure a good direct sponsor, they tend to support 01:10:21.346 --> 01:10:25.090 us for years because you guys tend to support them and it's a good product, et cetera, et cetera. 01:10:25.595 --> 01:10:29.336 Well, they might need mattresses. Our audience sleeps on mattresses mostly. 01:10:29.716 --> 01:10:32.793 I guess now that when they're trying to reach technical audiences, 01:10:33.374 --> 01:10:37.196 that advertising base has moved a lot to YouTube and Substack and those types 01:10:37.196 --> 01:10:40.766 of outlets and social media and Reddit ads and things like that. 01:10:40.766 --> 01:10:44.386 And they're really, they've pulled back on podcasts that require one-to-one 01:10:44.386 --> 01:10:48.266 interactions and long email chains and calls when they can just go to Reddit's 01:10:48.266 --> 01:10:51.706 platform and Facebook's platform and X's platform and just buy ads programmatically. 01:10:51.706 --> 01:10:55.276 And so that's where the money's being spent these days. And even though they'd 01:10:55.276 --> 01:10:58.705 get a better bang for their buck over here and it's a more honest one-to-one relationship, it's... 01:11:00.169 --> 01:11:03.306 So now the market doesn't care about those things. And so that's why we're struggling. 01:11:03.306 --> 01:11:07.153 It's, I think, probably the same fate that a lot of the Linux magazines found themselves in. 01:11:08.023 --> 01:11:11.170 Only in our case, I think we probably have wider distribution than some magazines. 01:11:11.680 --> 01:11:13.004 Some of the Linux magazines did. 01:11:14.056 --> 01:11:18.118 And we're worldwide by default. So those things help. 01:11:18.826 --> 01:11:22.276 But at a certain point, the advertiser seems to just kind of lose interest in 01:11:22.276 --> 01:11:24.631 this particular audience, even though we think it's one of the best in the world. 01:11:25.485 --> 01:11:29.287 So this is why we have been adopting value for value for the last couple of years now. 01:11:29.809 --> 01:11:32.352 And why we're so grateful for all the boosts and the members. 01:11:32.555 --> 01:11:34.196 Yes. Like High Five Connoisseur. 01:11:34.196 --> 01:11:38.916 Indeed. Boosting from an airplane. I think I'm the first member to do so. 01:11:39.676 --> 01:11:43.736 Next step, send actual sets from the air. Great show as always. 01:11:44.716 --> 01:11:45.716 Nice. That's wonderful. 01:11:45.716 --> 01:11:47.891 Thanks, High Five. That might be a first right there. 01:11:48.058 --> 01:11:51.156 I've just never really thought to boost from the air. But now I want to do it. 01:11:51.156 --> 01:11:56.856 First job is to figure out how to get internet for free. And then boost, right? Uh-huh. 01:11:56.856 --> 01:12:01.936 Doc Vuzine sent in a member's boost. Since Chris mentioned configuring a Jellyfin 01:12:01.936 --> 01:12:07.975 server both in this episode and in 6.85, I wanted to make sure he was aware of a couple projects. 01:12:08.632 --> 01:12:15.476 There's one called NixR and another one called NixFlix, which is the new content. 01:12:16.196 --> 01:12:20.590 With lots of stuff automated, great for Chris's sobs, Nix. 01:12:21.026 --> 01:12:26.406 Oh my goodness, I did not know about either of these. I just went off and built 01:12:26.406 --> 01:12:27.956 something that I didn't even think to look. 01:12:29.454 --> 01:12:34.760 I think I had seen the first one before, but this Nixflix one's definitely new. 01:12:35.004 --> 01:12:37.766 Yeah, Nixar and then Nixflix looks really good. 01:12:40.002 --> 01:12:41.711 Well, thank you for letting me know. 01:12:41.711 --> 01:12:43.211 Let me know what you're doing after the show. 01:12:43.711 --> 01:12:47.771 Yeah, I clearly need to look into that. SeniorSmiles sent a member boost. 01:12:47.771 --> 01:12:51.128 A good alternative to RustFS, ah, is Garage. 01:12:51.559 --> 01:12:54.161 Yeah, I was wondering if people had any thoughts on Garage. It really excels 01:12:54.161 --> 01:12:57.387 in combining nodes and geographically syncing multiple sites. 01:12:57.810 --> 01:13:00.840 Garage will remain available when partial or inconsistent data. 01:13:01.165 --> 01:13:04.938 If data consistency is a must, well, RustFS may be preferred. 01:13:05.409 --> 01:13:07.181 You know, that's a good point. I think it just depends, like, 01:13:07.181 --> 01:13:10.431 if you're doing it for jellyfin media, it's probably a little bit different 01:13:10.431 --> 01:13:13.891 circumstances than company data, trade secrets, or family photos. 01:13:14.767 --> 01:13:18.767 Yeah, that's where it's great to have multiple options, especially even outside of Min.io. 01:13:19.027 --> 01:13:20.809 Thank you, Senior Smile. I was hoping to get one of those. 01:13:21.411 --> 01:13:27.051 Space Warlock member boosts in. Plus one for tips on flashable TV boxes. 01:13:27.051 --> 01:13:27.479 Okay. 01:13:27.579 --> 01:13:30.221 I would even settle for a high-quality remote for Linux boxes. 01:13:30.221 --> 01:13:30.695 I know. 01:13:30.968 --> 01:13:34.611 Also, I meant to say flashable, and my phone corrected it. It was just too funny to fix. 01:13:35.011 --> 01:13:39.411 I love flashable. You know, it's like disposable Android TV boxes that you'll 01:13:39.411 --> 01:13:40.511 get rid of every three years or something. 01:13:40.571 --> 01:13:42.201 You know, if it's not flashable, it's flashable. 01:13:42.201 --> 01:13:42.671 That's right. 01:13:43.591 --> 01:13:45.941 But the Space Warlock also matrixed in. 01:13:45.941 --> 01:13:46.191 Okay. 01:13:46.551 --> 01:13:49.031 I sent my member booth before the end of last episode. 01:13:49.031 --> 01:13:49.521 Pool party. 01:13:49.521 --> 01:13:53.791 Mm-hmm. I was too focused on the talk about TV boxes because I am also on the hunt. 01:13:54.431 --> 01:13:58.441 I wanted to let you know I did enjoy the storage talk. I have only been daily 01:13:58.441 --> 01:14:02.121 driving Linux for a few years now, so I am still in a place where I'm unsure 01:14:02.121 --> 01:14:05.088 about when I should use any particular file system or storage tech. 01:14:05.605 --> 01:14:07.590 TLTR, I liked the S3 talk. 01:14:07.915 --> 01:14:12.341 Good. Thank you for that signal. It was debated if it was, like, 01:14:12.341 --> 01:14:13.621 is this interesting enough? 01:14:14.272 --> 01:14:17.273 But then, like, if you know you need it, you need it. Or you know you might need it one day. 01:14:17.771 --> 01:14:20.982 Well, there's a member boost here from 412Linux. 01:14:22.079 --> 01:14:26.607 Regarding all this talk about Jellyfin lately, I'd love to put together an open-source 01:14:26.607 --> 01:14:29.151 set-top box that gets family approval. 01:14:29.609 --> 01:14:33.498 We've been using Roku for about 15 years with zero family issues. 01:14:33.963 --> 01:14:38.926 The remote is the key. It doesn't have to be fancy. It just needs to work. 01:14:39.443 --> 01:14:41.608 Thank you for the heads-up on Silo. 01:14:43.238 --> 01:14:47.115 Yeah, the Roku remotes, depending on which one, is really good, too. 01:14:47.527 --> 01:14:50.099 So we need a flushable remote, I think. 01:14:50.714 --> 01:14:56.613 We do need we need a flushable remote or a way to get old roku remotes working with linux, 01:14:57.523 --> 01:15:00.497 and i would the real next layer would be if you could also route pipe wire to 01:15:00.497 --> 01:15:03.587 the little audio headphone jack that some of the remotes have that's, 01:15:04.307 --> 01:15:07.020 such a great feature of the roku's the ones that have that, 01:15:07.659 --> 01:15:12.207 uh the next i think in there in that category of if we if we couldn't reverse 01:15:12.207 --> 01:15:17.267 engineer and flush the roku remote the other remote i would love to be flushable 01:15:17.267 --> 01:15:18.955 would be an og tivo remote, 01:15:19.577 --> 01:15:24.257 because in my opinion the OG TiVo remote is still the peak remote design of Civilization. 01:15:24.257 --> 01:15:26.527 Now would you program the boops into your Linux? 01:15:27.721 --> 01:15:31.721 Boop. Boop. I loved the boops. Loved the boops. Boop. 01:15:32.887 --> 01:15:36.052 Ran Linux, too. Greg the lawyer wraps us up with the member boost, 01:15:36.052 --> 01:15:39.362 using my member boost to ask more people to become members. Put your money behind 01:15:39.362 --> 01:15:42.720 people who deliver real content if you want more of it. Love you guys. 01:15:43.212 --> 01:15:47.302 Thank you, Greg. And the bootleg is clocking it at 2 hours and 11 minutes right 01:15:47.302 --> 01:15:50.012 now. It's a big show. Appreciate you, Greg. 01:15:50.012 --> 01:15:53.142 Trying to turn some of that value back into, well, audio waveforms. 01:15:53.192 --> 01:15:56.592 You know, we did pretty good, boys. Let's wrap it all up. We were looking a 01:15:56.592 --> 01:15:59.012 little lean towards the end of the week, but things came together. 01:15:59.012 --> 01:16:01.685 Ten people streamed sats as they listened. It wasn't our strongest showy there, 01:16:02.126 --> 01:16:07.792 But they collectively stacked 15,243 sats. Not too shabby, thank you. 01:16:07.792 --> 01:16:09.252 Automatically? Wow, they listen. 01:16:09.252 --> 01:16:12.932 Yep. And then when you bring it all together, including taking our generous 01:16:12.932 --> 01:16:16.064 fiat boosts and convert them to sats at the market rate right now, 01:16:16.458 --> 01:16:24.266 this episode, episode 686, stacked 519,615 satoshis. 01:16:31.475 --> 01:16:34.260 Thank you, everyone who supports the show with a boost or a membership. 01:16:34.260 --> 01:16:36.525 We really would not be here this year without it. 01:16:36.903 --> 01:16:40.540 The only way we have made it is because of the support. And we want to continue 01:16:40.540 --> 01:16:43.264 to be ambitious. We want to do big projects. We want to go places. 01:16:44.040 --> 01:16:49.173 And we don't want to fade. You know, we crossed 13 years over a month ago. 01:16:50.073 --> 01:16:54.010 The show's been going for 13 years. There's absolutely no way we would have 01:16:54.010 --> 01:16:57.039 made this 13th year without the support from our members and our boosters. 01:16:57.370 --> 01:16:59.870 So thank you, everybody. We really appreciate it. Yeah, hopefully. 01:16:59.870 --> 01:17:00.980 I mean, I really hope that is 01:17:00.980 --> 01:17:04.922 the case. So stay tuned and keep supporting boost.jupiterbroadcasting.com. 01:17:06.484 --> 01:17:07.860 Now, I know we're going long here. 01:17:08.620 --> 01:17:10.700 But this- We couldn't pry this pick out of here. 01:17:10.700 --> 01:17:11.960 This is the best pick of my life. 01:17:12.600 --> 01:17:12.780 Whoa. 01:17:12.780 --> 01:17:16.126 I have never, ever had a better pick on this show, ever. 01:17:17.089 --> 01:17:21.090 Till next week. I don't know what I'm going to do. I haven't fully incorporated 01:17:21.090 --> 01:17:24.900 how I'm going to change my life around this pick, but I'm beginning to experiment 01:17:24.900 --> 01:17:27.490 with it. Maybe like something on my phone, something on a laptop, 01:17:27.490 --> 01:17:28.815 and I got to have like something in VR. 01:17:30.060 --> 01:17:33.440 So, friends, I want to tell you about – now, I know this is not going to be 01:17:33.440 --> 01:17:35.580 a big deal for everybody, but it's very special to me. 01:17:35.580 --> 01:17:36.400 It's life-changing. 01:17:36.900 --> 01:17:38.416 I want to tell you about Clipper. 01:17:39.704 --> 01:17:45.353 Clip R is a streamlined media clipper that allows you to quickly create and 01:17:45.353 --> 01:17:49.166 download clips from what is currently playing via Plex or Jellyfin. 01:17:49.633 --> 01:17:50.449 No way. 01:17:50.937 --> 01:17:54.130 Say a guy is watching King of the Hill on his TV. 01:17:54.478 --> 01:17:59.383 He can pull this page up. And if you hit clip, it will grab just a little handle 01:17:59.383 --> 01:18:02.843 before the moment you hit clip and about 20 seconds after you hit clip. 01:18:03.441 --> 01:18:08.113 and it brings it up in what is perhaps the best web interface I've ever seen 01:18:08.113 --> 01:18:09.890 for editing clips and I've played with a lot of them. 01:18:10.372 --> 01:18:14.523 It includes the transcript if the file has it. It pulls it right from your Jellyfin 01:18:14.523 --> 01:18:19.834 or Plex server and then it has a way to trim it like a standard linear video editor. 01:18:20.142 --> 01:18:23.753 You can trim the clip to what you want and then it has a bunch of great export 01:18:23.753 --> 01:18:26.098 options to export just that clip. 01:18:26.701 --> 01:18:30.887 And it works so great. You can also expand beyond what it clipped. 01:18:31.142 --> 01:18:32.873 So if the region you wanted was 01:18:32.873 --> 01:18:36.807 earlier or later, you just expand the clip because it has the entire file. 01:18:37.405 --> 01:18:42.467 You can also link MP4 files that are on an HTTP endpoint or upload video files to it. 01:18:43.308 --> 01:18:47.143 But for me, there's been so many times when I'm watching something and I'm like, 01:18:47.143 --> 01:18:51.528 I would love to play a clip of that on the show. Or that would make a great boost soundbite. 01:18:51.859 --> 01:18:54.253 Or there's been so many times I've been like, I wish audience members could 01:18:54.253 --> 01:18:55.888 send us some great boost soundboard bites. 01:18:56.207 --> 01:18:58.733 And this way you can just be watching something. And if somebody says something 01:18:58.733 --> 01:19:01.713 that would make a great clip or something or a ringtone or whatever, 01:19:01.713 --> 01:19:05.663 you just hit the button and it grabs a clip of it. Like I was watching Futurama 01:19:05.663 --> 01:19:08.699 last night and this just and I'm like, oh, and I just hit the button. 01:19:08.953 --> 01:19:10.353 Blockchain's not the boss of me. 01:19:10.453 --> 01:19:14.203 I'm like, I got to have that. Right. It's just hit the button. 01:19:14.203 --> 01:19:15.783 And then I just trim it a little bit. 01:19:15.783 --> 01:19:17.913 And blockchain's not the boss of me. 01:19:17.913 --> 01:19:20.333 And I've got it now. I've got it now. 01:19:20.333 --> 01:19:24.982 We've been asking for this ever since the boosts were a thing, basically. 01:19:25.557 --> 01:19:29.103 Yeah or anytime you can play sounds or if you want like funny clips from a movie 01:19:29.103 --> 01:19:32.723 or if you and your friends love a scene or something like that or you want to 01:19:32.723 --> 01:19:37.932 share something from a great episode over a messaging app I mean it goes on and on buddy, 01:19:40.166 --> 01:19:43.318 It's so good. It's so good. It can burn in the subtitles if you want. 01:19:44.386 --> 01:19:45.890 It pulls from your existing media. 01:19:47.045 --> 01:19:48.571 Just five months old, it looks like. 01:19:48.571 --> 01:19:50.851 All of the work, like if there's any transcoding work required, 01:19:50.851 --> 01:19:53.233 it's all done in the browser. Wow. 01:19:54.481 --> 01:19:55.371 This is impressive. 01:19:55.371 --> 01:19:59.026 It's really, really good, and it's MIT licensed. 01:19:59.630 --> 01:20:01.391 Is there anything that's not so great about it? 01:20:02.248 --> 01:20:05.231 I mean, you know, it's new, and so it's going to be, it's not 100%. 01:20:05.231 --> 01:20:08.841 Like, uh, one time I went to clip, I think it was a movie and it just brought 01:20:08.841 --> 01:20:11.791 the whole thing into the timeline, but then it was really easy to just mark 01:20:11.791 --> 01:20:14.231 it in and out and just drop it. And so that was great. 01:20:14.231 --> 01:20:14.677 Nice. 01:20:15.814 --> 01:20:18.361 And then you got, I haven't tried, uh, just uploading the local file, 01:20:18.361 --> 01:20:22.021 but they offer that. I'm so happy. I'm so, so, so happy. It's so good. 01:20:22.021 --> 01:20:24.086 It's so good. It was so easy to set up too. 01:20:24.406 --> 01:20:29.804 Oh, I have a question. Um, you have recently when you so choose to do this manually 01:20:30.071 --> 01:20:36.451 been taking, uh, like a Dolby 5.1 channel audio and then like selecting the very. 01:20:36.891 --> 01:20:37.621 Specific channel. 01:20:37.621 --> 01:20:39.541 You want is that capable here yet or is that a. 01:20:39.541 --> 01:20:43.091 Feature i don't think so but i one time i did bring in a clip and i did see 01:20:43.091 --> 01:20:45.911 multiple tracks and i didn't poke around to see if some of them were audio but 01:20:45.911 --> 01:20:47.857 i don't think it does that what you're saying is like if you, 01:20:48.565 --> 01:20:51.391 if you're if you open up like something that surrounds and you grab just the 01:20:51.391 --> 01:20:56.051 center center channel that's almost always the dialogue mostly isolated so it 01:20:56.051 --> 01:20:59.081 gets rid of something like the background music or sound effects and you get 01:20:59.081 --> 01:21:01.642 but mostly just the dialogue, which is really a neat trick. 01:21:02.771 --> 01:21:06.189 Oh, gosh, Clipper, Clipper, so happy, so happy. 01:21:06.613 --> 01:21:11.021 And then, Brent, you found a tool this week that actually could be very useful 01:21:11.021 --> 01:21:15.877 for me as well, and probably a lot of us, a command line F-Droid desktop client, 01:21:16.417 --> 01:21:20.311 to manage the software on your Android device with a command line interface. 01:21:21.247 --> 01:21:26.501 I basically have been asking for this forever, and I didn't know this existed. And it's been around. 01:21:26.889 --> 01:21:33.076 Like, it's not brand new. It's been around for a while. So FDroid CL allows 01:21:33.076 --> 01:21:37.256 you to, through ADV, control FDroid, basically. 01:21:37.256 --> 01:21:42.091 It's exactly what it sounds like. And I have not tried it yet, so there's that. 01:21:42.684 --> 01:21:49.816 But like you, Chris, I feel like this might be the main way I interact with FDroid from here on. 01:21:49.816 --> 01:21:54.436 you can do exports and stuff and ah it's just a beautiful thing it's kind of 01:21:54.436 --> 01:21:59.076 like an api for air fdroid is how i'm seeing it and so i i think i'm going to 01:21:59.076 --> 01:22:03.071 try this this week we'll see how it goes if anybody else has experience with it i'd love to hear it. 01:22:03.285 --> 01:22:07.576 That's pretty neat yeah fdroid cl and it has been around for a minute although 01:22:07.576 --> 01:22:11.636 it's still under active development bsd3 licensed as well so uh. 01:22:12.231 --> 01:22:13.026 I have been interested in. 01:22:13.026 --> 01:22:13.396 More ways. 01:22:13.396 --> 01:22:18.746 Of automating things on the phone you know between old ADB and browser things 01:22:18.746 --> 01:22:20.793 and yeah package management of course. 01:22:21.856 --> 01:22:22.556 It is an unlock, 01:22:23.912 --> 01:22:29.758 Horizon OS has a CLI and an MCP and an API, and I do not use their store interface 01:22:29.758 --> 01:22:32.448 anymore. I don't update my own apps. It's all managed for the CLI now. 01:22:32.896 --> 01:22:36.198 It's just a better way to install software on Android. It just really is. 01:22:36.198 --> 01:22:39.885 So FDroid CL for the win. Nice find. All right. 01:22:40.303 --> 01:22:43.888 Well, links to that and everything we talked about, including the Plasma stories, 01:22:43.888 --> 01:22:48.908 the System D updates, all of that will be linked at linuxunplugged.com slash 01:22:48.908 --> 01:22:54.972 686. Whole website over there with links to previous episodes, including our RSS feed. 01:22:55.343 --> 01:22:55.818 Indeed. 01:22:56.401 --> 01:22:59.568 Now that RSS feed not only has every single episode in there that you might 01:22:59.568 --> 01:23:03.466 want to listen to, but there's some additional stuff in there that could make 01:23:03.703 --> 01:23:07.218 life a little better, could make more context around the show. 01:23:07.718 --> 01:23:09.558 Tell us what we got, Wes. What do we got for the people? 01:23:09.558 --> 01:23:13.168 If you're urgently awaiting the K-Exec part of the show, you can just jump right 01:23:13.168 --> 01:23:14.268 there. We have chapters. 01:23:14.268 --> 01:23:14.698 That's true. 01:23:14.698 --> 01:23:17.658 There is a deficiency. Not every episode has a K-Exec chapter. 01:23:17.658 --> 01:23:18.748 We're working on that though. 01:23:18.748 --> 01:23:19.258 You're trying. 01:23:20.358 --> 01:23:24.183 And if you need more finer detail, I'll check out the VTT file. 01:23:24.317 --> 01:23:28.628 Yeah. Yeah, and then, of course, along with all of that, there's an MP4 file. 01:23:28.628 --> 01:23:31.268 So if you want to get some visuals, because we often will show what we're talking 01:23:31.268 --> 01:23:34.908 about, we try not to deter from that experience at all, because we don't care 01:23:34.908 --> 01:23:37.098 how you watch or listen. We're just glad that you do. 01:23:37.098 --> 01:23:38.778 It's an optional upgrade. 01:23:38.778 --> 01:23:41.938 We just really appreciate you. And, of course, you can take it to the next level 01:23:41.938 --> 01:23:45.340 by making it a Tuesday on a Sunday. Join us Sunday, 10 a.m. Pacific, 01:23:45.648 --> 01:23:47.192 1 p.m. Eastern, next week. 01:23:50.745 --> 01:23:54.149 Yeah, you know it. Of course, if you want more show, the LUP-LUG gets going 01:23:54.149 --> 01:23:57.409 before the show and after the show in our Mumble Room. The Matrix chat's going 01:23:57.775 --> 01:24:01.954 all week long. And during the show, they're helping us come up with titles and 01:24:02.158 --> 01:24:03.725 the live stream. It's a special vibe. 01:24:04.096 --> 01:24:07.069 And of course, last but not least, thank you to our members and our boosters 01:24:07.069 --> 01:24:10.279 for making this episode possible. We really do appreciate you. 01:24:10.726 --> 01:24:13.947 And of course, we appreciate our listeners. Been listening, I mean, 13 years. 01:24:14.702 --> 01:24:18.199 That don't happen unless somebody's listening. So thank you very much for joining 01:24:18.199 --> 01:24:19.665 us this week and every week. 01:24:20.054 --> 01:24:23.845 And we'll see you right back here next Tuesday, as in Sunday.