WEBVTT 00:00:11.339 --> 00:00:15.839 Hello, friends, and welcome back to your weekly Linux talk show. My name is Chris. 00:00:16.019 --> 00:00:16.679 My name is Wes. 00:00:16.839 --> 00:00:17.579 And my name is Brent. 00:00:18.259 --> 00:00:21.979 Hello, gentlemen. Well, coming up on the show today, the three major themes 00:00:21.979 --> 00:00:25.359 from Red Hat Summit that we think you'll care about the most. 00:00:25.539 --> 00:00:29.059 Then we'll round the show out with some great boos, some picks, and a lot more. 00:00:29.199 --> 00:00:34.519 So before we get to all of that, and it is a dense episode, let's say time-appropriate 00:00:34.519 --> 00:00:37.419 greetings to our virtual lug. Hello, mumble room. 00:00:41.246 --> 00:00:43.406 Hello. And hello up there in quiet 00:00:43.406 --> 00:00:46.086 listening. Hello, everybody in the live matrix room and on the stream. 00:00:46.306 --> 00:00:51.346 It is so nice to have you. And good morning to our friends over at Defined Networking. 00:00:51.426 --> 00:00:55.986 Go to defined.net slash unplugged and meet Managed Nebula from Defined Networking. 00:00:56.506 --> 00:01:03.126 It is a fast, low overhead, decentralized VPN that's built on the open source Nebula platform. 00:01:03.286 --> 00:01:05.906 You can self-host, you can go look at it right now. 00:01:06.306 --> 00:01:10.786 Actually, one of the great things about nebula is the issues are out in the open. 00:01:10.786 --> 00:01:11.546 The prs. 00:01:11.546 --> 00:01:12.186 Are out in the open. 00:01:12.186 --> 00:01:15.466 And it's kind of stupid easy to try especially i mean it's just written in go 00:01:15.466 --> 00:01:19.586 you can just download a binary that basically runs anywhere all the way to like 00:01:19.586 --> 00:01:25.106 you know using containers or nix os or whatever you want to orchestrate it or a managed product. 00:01:25.106 --> 00:01:25.886 Make a site car. 00:01:25.886 --> 00:01:26.606 Do it yeah. 00:01:26.606 --> 00:01:30.266 And if you want to try it out define.net slash unplug it just started with managed 00:01:30.266 --> 00:01:33.906 nebula you can try for free 100 hosts no credit card required it's a great way 00:01:33.906 --> 00:01:36.746 to support the show and i think one of the things you'll really appreciate is 00:01:36.746 --> 00:01:38.326 that you can run your own Lighthouse nodes. 00:01:38.346 --> 00:01:43.206 You're going to really notice a difference on CPU and network overhead compared to other mesh networks. 00:01:43.806 --> 00:01:50.746 And I think you'll be hearing more about just how freaking fast Nebula really is. It's amazing. 00:01:50.886 --> 00:01:54.706 Check it out. Defined.net slash Unplugged. Big thank you to Defined Networking 00:01:54.706 --> 00:01:56.486 for supporting the Unplugged program. 00:01:58.586 --> 00:02:03.606 Well, based on last week's adventures with a new distro, let's call it, 00:02:03.726 --> 00:02:08.826 where I didn't quite do as well, I dove into Red Hat Summit, 00:02:09.026 --> 00:02:10.506 which is happening this week. 00:02:10.646 --> 00:02:14.686 Red Hat Summit 2026 is happening in Hotlanta, Georgia. 00:02:15.006 --> 00:02:19.086 And, well, we grabbed a whole bunch of clips, especially on day one, 00:02:19.246 --> 00:02:21.626 which was rather high level. 00:02:21.866 --> 00:02:26.206 But useful to understand where Red Hats, well, where their head is at. 00:02:26.366 --> 00:02:32.646 And before they started talking about AI, as everyone does, they wanted to make it clear they see you. 00:02:34.846 --> 00:02:38.126 Welcome to Red Hat Summit 2026. 00:02:39.766 --> 00:02:45.186 Please welcome Red Hat President and Chief Executive Officer, Matt Hicks. 00:02:53.367 --> 00:02:56.987 Good morning. Look at this crowd. 00:02:57.627 --> 00:03:04.147 Every one of you is responsible for something that cannot break, 00:03:05.067 --> 00:03:08.067 cannot go down, cannot be wrong. 00:03:08.567 --> 00:03:14.607 Whether it's millions of financial transactions being processed every hour, 00:03:15.007 --> 00:03:21.247 or healthcare networks that physicians depend on for life-affecting decisions, 00:03:21.247 --> 00:03:27.907 or the millions of consumers served by telecommunications networks, 00:03:29.087 --> 00:03:32.487 that's just a normal week for the people in this room. 00:03:34.241 --> 00:03:39.961 And here's what I think about a lot. The outcomes get all the attention. 00:03:40.761 --> 00:03:45.661 The deployment measures, the SLAs, the uptime measurements. 00:03:46.481 --> 00:03:52.781 What doesn't get seen is the craft behind them that makes it possible. 00:03:53.981 --> 00:03:59.081 The person that designed the architecture from scratch. 00:03:59.081 --> 00:04:03.521 the person that migrated hundreds 00:04:03.521 --> 00:04:10.421 of virtual machines invisibly to the business, the person that at 2 a.m. 00:04:10.541 --> 00:04:15.761 in the morning figures out the cause of an outage that wasn't in the runbook. 00:04:16.561 --> 00:04:25.941 That takes real expertise, real creativity, and yet most of the world never sees it. 00:04:26.741 --> 00:04:32.861 I see it. And I think it's important to address that before we talk about anything else today. 00:04:33.161 --> 00:04:37.501 I think Red Hat has been reading the room. And they realize the importance of 00:04:37.501 --> 00:04:39.721 getting out in front of this and saying, it's really about you. 00:04:39.881 --> 00:04:42.481 Everything we're going to do today, it's AI, but it's about you. 00:04:42.661 --> 00:04:46.501 Yeah, this is targeted at humans, at the folks that are actually coming here, 00:04:46.581 --> 00:04:50.941 or at least that are continuing to motivate their bosses to pay our bills. 00:04:51.061 --> 00:04:52.941 But Brent, you get the sense, like, if this is how they're starting, 00:04:53.041 --> 00:04:55.581 because that was like the start. If this is how they're starting, 00:04:55.801 --> 00:04:57.961 they're going in hard, I would imagine. 00:04:58.221 --> 00:05:03.121 Yeah, on the scene, I've been basically just hearing them talking about how 00:05:03.121 --> 00:05:08.801 this transition to AI is one of the major defining moments in the tech industry. 00:05:09.581 --> 00:05:16.041 What is the foundation that lets me compete at the speed that my business needs 00:05:16.041 --> 00:05:20.601 while not breaking what absolutely cannot be broken? 00:05:20.641 --> 00:05:29.181 My business. And I've seen this before, twice actually, both times in ways that 00:05:29.181 --> 00:05:32.641 fundamentally reshaped the industry. 00:05:34.410 --> 00:05:40.530 The first time was in the shift from proprietary hardware and proprietary operating 00:05:40.530 --> 00:05:43.150 systems to open infrastructure. 00:05:43.710 --> 00:05:52.030 To that question, the what do I build on question, the answer turned out to be Linux. 00:05:52.990 --> 00:05:56.610 Red Hat brought Linux to the enterprise with Red Hat Enterprise Linux, 00:05:56.890 --> 00:06:01.130 and RHEL became a standard practically every industry. 00:06:02.650 --> 00:06:06.590 Everything that followed was built on Linux. 00:06:07.310 --> 00:06:10.990 Cloud, IoT, mobile. Think about today. 00:06:11.410 --> 00:06:16.530 Every AI model, every AI agent runs on Linux. 00:06:16.810 --> 00:06:23.370 That foundation that we built together is now the reality of what everything 00:06:23.370 --> 00:06:25.570 we depend on today is running on. 00:06:26.370 --> 00:06:32.250 Now, the second time this came up was in the shift to cloud native, 00:06:32.650 --> 00:06:36.650 so containers, Kubernetes, microservices. 00:06:37.690 --> 00:06:42.210 Now, at Red Hat, we didn't invent Docker. We didn't invent Kubernetes. 00:06:42.530 --> 00:06:49.070 We brought Kubernetes to the enterprise through OpenShift, and now that is a 00:06:49.070 --> 00:06:53.730 standard that thousands of customers depend on for their hybrid cloud. 00:06:54.710 --> 00:07:00.610 Now, we are at the third inflection point right now with AI, 00:07:00.870 --> 00:07:07.590 and Red Hat will bring AI to the enterprise to make that an open standard. 00:07:08.490 --> 00:07:12.270 And I think the pattern holds from the last two. 00:07:12.350 --> 00:07:16.530 The organizations that will have the most success in this environment, 00:07:16.530 --> 00:07:24.790 they are not necessarily going to be the ones that spin the most or the ones that move the fastest. 00:07:24.790 --> 00:07:28.470 They will be the ones that build on the right foundations. 00:07:30.434 --> 00:07:39.154 Virtual machines, containers, AI agents, they are not competing with each other. They are converging. 00:07:39.614 --> 00:07:45.274 And the answer to this is not going to be one cloud or one vendor or one model. 00:07:45.574 --> 00:07:52.154 It will be the right platform with a broad ecosystem that supports it. 00:07:52.614 --> 00:07:56.934 And I'm biased, but I think the organizations that will have the most success 00:07:56.934 --> 00:08:02.034 will pick a platform with an open foundation below it. 00:08:02.334 --> 00:08:06.694 And as you can imagine, he mentioned the future of work being agentic there, 00:08:06.894 --> 00:08:11.614 which means the kind of work we're going to be doing is going to change. 00:08:12.054 --> 00:08:19.254 Here is what we learned about the process, the actual work. And I want to be direct on this. 00:08:19.894 --> 00:08:27.074 To these software developers in the room, You are not getting replaced by AI, 00:08:27.074 --> 00:08:32.574 but where you spend your time and energy will drastically change. 00:08:33.274 --> 00:08:40.674 Figuring out how to build and shape evaluations for these AI-created systems. 00:08:40.854 --> 00:08:45.994 Figuring out how to build the next generation of continuous integration systems 00:08:45.994 --> 00:08:49.834 in a world where anyone can contribute. 00:08:50.074 --> 00:08:56.734 Figuring out how to create the next generation testing frameworks that maintain some stability. 00:08:58.094 --> 00:09:05.274 The humans that build the rails that AI runs on, that is where your craft is going. 00:09:06.807 --> 00:09:14.987 To the managers in the room, you are about to be tested on your ability to delegate. 00:09:15.787 --> 00:09:22.787 Now, AI agents, they are going to expand the capabilities and capacity of your team. 00:09:22.927 --> 00:09:25.467 In some cases, drastically. 00:09:27.147 --> 00:09:31.187 But they're also going to pressure test every process that you have. 00:09:31.187 --> 00:09:39.407 And in your case, as a manager, they will pressure test your ability to understand the technology, 00:09:40.147 --> 00:09:48.087 truly understand your processes, and be able to decompose complicated work to 00:09:48.087 --> 00:09:51.907 be able to delegate to both humans and agents. 00:09:52.147 --> 00:09:58.947 Your ability to do this will largely define how well you can lead in this environment. 00:09:58.947 --> 00:10:04.547 The overall message was pretty clear in the room that even if it makes you anxious, 00:10:04.547 --> 00:10:11.527 as it does many of us, or gets you excited, Red Hat says AI is not optional. 00:10:11.967 --> 00:10:16.307 AI isn't optional at this point. 00:10:16.467 --> 00:10:22.587 Whether it brings you energy or whether it creates real uncertainty. 00:10:22.907 --> 00:10:29.187 And I think for many of us, it is a combination, a mixture of both. it can't be ignored. 00:10:30.207 --> 00:10:38.527 But there also isn't a single path. Some of you might be ready to run AI or are in production. 00:10:39.007 --> 00:10:46.547 Some of you might be just trying to figure out what is hype and what is reality at this point. 00:10:46.767 --> 00:10:51.727 And some of you might be just trying to get your infrastructure in order to 00:10:51.727 --> 00:10:53.907 even make this a reality. 00:10:55.589 --> 00:11:03.089 All of that is legitimate. What I would caution against are the extremes. 00:11:04.369 --> 00:11:10.289 Either moving so slow that when you start, you can never catch up, 00:11:11.469 --> 00:11:18.169 or moving so fast that you build on a foundation that you cannot address what comes next. 00:11:18.169 --> 00:11:22.169 Because I promise you, something will come next in this environment. 00:11:24.024 --> 00:11:29.264 So here's what I can promise you. Everything you're going to hear about at Summit, 00:11:30.284 --> 00:11:33.484 is what Red Hat is actually doing. 00:11:34.304 --> 00:11:36.024 Will not be theory. 00:11:37.144 --> 00:11:43.344 Won't be roadmap slides. This will be production experience. 00:11:43.744 --> 00:11:48.144 All right, so that I'd say is theme one. And I noticed that Red Hat was leaning 00:11:48.144 --> 00:11:50.264 pretty hard on stuff that they've implemented. 00:11:50.304 --> 00:11:57.484 They talked a lot about how 85% of their internal knowledge workload bases on self-hosted models. 00:11:57.784 --> 00:11:59.644 Yeah, that was an interesting step. 00:12:00.424 --> 00:12:03.824 Yeah, so that's nice to see. And they've been really working to optimize smaller 00:12:03.824 --> 00:12:05.084 models to make them practical. 00:12:05.524 --> 00:12:09.644 And we know they've been heavily involved with VLLM, which is like the major 00:12:09.644 --> 00:12:12.844 way that a lot of these models are served both commercially and if you're going 00:12:12.844 --> 00:12:16.784 to go about doing it with like real powerful GPUs for your own internal use. 00:12:17.064 --> 00:12:17.684 Yeah, they definitely are. 00:12:18.084 --> 00:12:20.064 And LLMD on top of that. 00:12:20.124 --> 00:12:22.624 They're very proud of being, you know, the core, one of the top contributors, 00:12:22.804 --> 00:12:27.064 the top contributor to VLM and the partnership there. Okay, so that's theme one. 00:12:27.944 --> 00:12:31.544 Theme two, we've got to talk about, Brent. RHEL forever. 00:12:32.504 --> 00:12:38.224 RHEL forever. On day two, we got the news that Red Hat Enterprise Linux was 00:12:38.224 --> 00:12:42.544 turning into forever distro with RHEL forever. 00:12:42.964 --> 00:12:49.404 I need to run that version of RHEL forever without a hint of sarcasm. 00:12:49.404 --> 00:12:57.464 And for that, we're announcing Red Hat Enterprise Linux long-life add-on. 00:12:57.944 --> 00:13:04.184 A yearly subscription with indefinite support once you reach the end of extended support. 00:13:05.084 --> 00:13:12.544 Critical security fixes, bug resolutions, and more for as long as you need them. 00:13:13.858 --> 00:13:17.578 When you have a system that cannot change, you need support that will not end. 00:13:18.698 --> 00:13:24.738 But Red Hat's support for Linux is only about stability. Innovation is changing 00:13:24.738 --> 00:13:26.258 the demands of Linux faster than ever. 00:13:26.538 --> 00:13:29.978 To me, this is kind of a remarkable announcement. 00:13:30.338 --> 00:13:30.518 Yeah. 00:13:31.718 --> 00:13:32.838 The engineering task. 00:13:33.058 --> 00:13:37.318 There's something to be said for LTS, which is, you know, I've been around for 00:13:37.318 --> 00:13:40.118 a while, long-term support, but this is literally indefinite. 00:13:40.238 --> 00:13:43.978 That word really stuck out to me. How in the world do you do that? 00:13:44.118 --> 00:13:48.518 I do think it's important to recognize that they do have some internal guardrails. 00:13:48.698 --> 00:13:51.418 It's at Red Hat's discretion. They include that a lot. 00:13:51.538 --> 00:13:51.758 Yes. 00:13:52.098 --> 00:13:52.418 Smart. 00:13:53.118 --> 00:13:57.898 Yeah. And so I do think there's an aspect of some long-term bets on maybe how 00:13:57.898 --> 00:13:59.578 they're able to keep accomplishing this. 00:13:59.658 --> 00:14:02.338 But I also wonder if there isn't a connection to what we're going to talk about 00:14:02.338 --> 00:14:07.238 next in terms of new offerings they'll be able to push to a lot of their current clients. 00:14:07.238 --> 00:14:11.998 And so sort of an expectation around maybe this is more about keeping clients 00:14:11.998 --> 00:14:16.538 and keeping certain workloads there as opposed to counting on that really to 00:14:16.538 --> 00:14:19.398 be a growing industry, but more of a like, let's lock this in. 00:14:19.578 --> 00:14:22.458 Yeah. Yeah, I can see that. So you touched on something there. 00:14:23.425 --> 00:14:27.705 Do you think, so let's look at the alternative. So Canonical offers 15 years 00:14:27.705 --> 00:14:29.505 contractually on Ubuntu Pro Legacy. 00:14:30.265 --> 00:14:34.765 SUSE does 16 years for core components. Red Hat, indefinite, 00:14:34.825 --> 00:14:36.465 is a lot longer than any of those. 00:14:36.905 --> 00:14:40.345 Although I'd say Canonical's scope is a lot broader because under Canonical's 00:14:40.345 --> 00:14:43.205 15 years, it's all 36,000 packages in the main archive. 00:14:43.405 --> 00:14:47.825 Right, this is continued access to critical software security and bug fixes. Yeah. 00:14:48.345 --> 00:14:52.465 Where the Red Hat version, like you implied there, is going to be a lot narrower 00:14:52.465 --> 00:14:56.005 to which we don't even know the degree of that scope yet. Or the pricing. 00:14:56.485 --> 00:14:58.885 You do have to wonder, though, like you're saying, there has been some developments 00:14:58.885 --> 00:15:01.305 with other folks in the space bumping up timelines. 00:15:01.505 --> 00:15:03.905 So maybe this is a like, you don't, you know, if you're worried about that, 00:15:04.025 --> 00:15:07.165 we are going to let you keep paying and we will let you keep running this. 00:15:07.205 --> 00:15:09.105 They even said at one point 30 years. 00:15:09.405 --> 00:15:14.825 Wow. But even just Canonical's offering at 15 years was just a huge jump from 00:15:14.825 --> 00:15:16.325 what they were doing a couple of years ago. 00:15:17.465 --> 00:15:22.165 what were you know what was the state of linux 15 years ago chris when uh oh 00:15:22.165 --> 00:15:27.085 my gosh right if you picture it that way it's like wow well 15 years. 00:15:27.085 --> 00:15:29.845 I wonder if there's a bet there too in terms of like because i think some of 00:15:29.845 --> 00:15:34.105 this starts with six ah i wonder if there's like a baseline they think they've 00:15:34.105 --> 00:15:37.285 achieved in terms of like how much will change maybe you have enough of the 00:15:37.285 --> 00:15:41.085 primitives enough se linux enough maybe basic container tech in there but. 00:15:41.085 --> 00:15:43.965 Even on a say Let's just say it's not 30 years. 00:15:44.485 --> 00:15:47.845 Let's say it's a 20-year. First, it's a bet the Red Hat will be there that long, 00:15:47.865 --> 00:15:50.505 but they plan to be here indefinitely apparently. 00:15:52.145 --> 00:15:58.225 But at 20 years, it just becomes exponentially harder to take a modern-day security 00:15:58.225 --> 00:16:02.825 fix and apply it to something like the 6-series kernel when we could be on a 00:16:02.825 --> 00:16:04.845 10-series kernel by then or something like that. 00:16:05.505 --> 00:16:11.205 I mean, they must be making a bet that there's going to be some kind of vibe 00:16:11.205 --> 00:16:17.125 coded unlock in the next five years that makes this more doable because the 00:16:17.125 --> 00:16:20.025 problem only gets harder as time marches on. What are your thoughts? 00:16:21.095 --> 00:16:26.635 I think that comes into play, I think especially maybe in sort of countering 00:16:26.635 --> 00:16:30.595 perhaps an expected increase in things that you need to address, right? 00:16:30.635 --> 00:16:32.995 We've seen – we don't know if it will continue, but we've seen – it's been a 00:16:32.995 --> 00:16:34.815 very busy month in Linux security vulnerability. 00:16:35.115 --> 00:16:39.375 Pause there for a second, buddy. That's a huge point. They are making this commitment 00:16:39.375 --> 00:16:46.815 as the CVE are exponentially going up, and they're like zero-daying them just to get attention. 00:16:47.315 --> 00:16:50.635 And they're like, yep, indefinite support at the beginning of this curve. 00:16:51.115 --> 00:16:54.435 So that's where I think it also maybe reflects. So I think maybe they think, 00:16:54.595 --> 00:16:57.675 you know, we will also have tools to help make this process more sustainable 00:16:57.675 --> 00:17:01.595 and be more highly automatable to address that and, you know, 00:17:01.855 --> 00:17:03.835 tamp down some of the growth on that curve. 00:17:04.035 --> 00:17:08.115 And then maybe also some confidence in their existing execution and team and 00:17:08.115 --> 00:17:09.195 sort of security profile. 00:17:09.555 --> 00:17:12.815 Because as we have seen, there's been a lot of vulnerabilities that if you are 00:17:12.815 --> 00:17:16.915 running like a full SC Linux stuff and kind of doing it the Red Hat way, 00:17:17.095 --> 00:17:19.515 you're in a much better position than if you're just doing nothing. 00:17:19.835 --> 00:17:20.235 It's true. 00:17:20.935 --> 00:17:24.455 So I think they have a lot of the bones in place. And then maybe because as 00:17:24.455 --> 00:17:28.275 we've seen, they are kind of whole hog going forward to use AI tooling. 00:17:28.615 --> 00:17:30.835 Maybe they've already seen some gains in that regard. 00:17:30.995 --> 00:17:35.975 Right. And the plan here is you go through all the standard lifecycle, 00:17:36.475 --> 00:17:41.615 then the extended lifecycle, then the premium extended lifecycle, and then indefinite. 00:17:41.775 --> 00:17:47.015 And so you have to also imagine the pricing escalates with each one of those tiers. 00:17:47.015 --> 00:17:50.435 Right. And so that's, I think, where the discretion and the like how much you 00:17:50.435 --> 00:17:54.895 extract sort of comes in in terms of they retain the option to make this worth 00:17:54.895 --> 00:17:56.175 their while if they need to. 00:17:58.694 --> 00:18:01.674 I just want to take a moment and thank our members. We would normally have an 00:18:01.674 --> 00:18:05.194 ad right here. We should have had an ad right here since the beginning of the year. 00:18:05.434 --> 00:18:08.174 And since then, our members have been keeping us on the road. 00:18:08.914 --> 00:18:13.114 LinuxUnplugged.com slash membership for this here program or Jupiter.party for all the shows. 00:18:13.634 --> 00:18:17.214 Either way, you'll get access to the bootleg or the no ads version, 00:18:17.554 --> 00:18:20.574 both of which are fantastic and well-loved by the members who sign up. 00:18:21.054 --> 00:18:24.634 Retention is high because we try to deliver for that bootleg and for that ad-free. 00:18:24.834 --> 00:18:28.254 Thank you, everybody who supports us with a membership. Keeping us going. 00:18:31.494 --> 00:18:35.194 Also, during day two's keynote, we got the Hummingbird announcement. 00:18:35.514 --> 00:18:39.514 They start by saying, from the same factory that creates RHEL-hardened images, 00:18:39.894 --> 00:18:42.154 is how they will create Hummingbird. 00:18:42.394 --> 00:18:46.534 Of a new builder-focused Linux distribution, Fedora Hummingbird Linux, 00:18:46.894 --> 00:18:51.734 a rolling release OS that pushes updates and fixes as quickly as the upstream 00:18:51.734 --> 00:18:52.954 Linux community produces them. 00:18:53.454 --> 00:18:57.934 So it's built on the same automated infrastructure as Red Hat Hard Images, 00:18:57.934 --> 00:19:02.294 And because of that, Fedora Hummingbird Linux will provide languages, 00:19:02.874 --> 00:19:07.514 runtimes, databases, and tools, also free of non-CVEs. 00:19:07.794 --> 00:19:14.294 This allows AI agents to choose Fedora Hummingbird Linux as the OS to experiment with. 00:19:16.169 --> 00:19:20.209 Developers building AI systems don't have waiting or slow in their vocabulary. 00:19:20.989 --> 00:19:27.489 Definitely exciting for developers, somewhat terrifying for enterprise IT admins and auditors. 00:19:28.209 --> 00:19:33.449 So how do you give developers the fast roads that they want and IT teams the 00:19:33.449 --> 00:19:34.709 guardrails that they need? 00:19:34.949 --> 00:19:39.769 I guess I'm struck by a couple of things with Hummingbird, and I want to start with this. 00:19:39.929 --> 00:19:43.349 How do you have a zero CVE Linux distribution? 00:19:43.349 --> 00:19:49.389 Yeah, so it's less of a claim forever, but the point is really about process, 00:19:49.609 --> 00:19:55.129 which is it's very much an automation sort of CI, CD first thing. 00:19:55.409 --> 00:19:59.409 In this case, it's built on Conflux and Tecton and some of the existing infrastructure 00:19:59.409 --> 00:20:01.829 that Red Hat has been working on. 00:20:02.329 --> 00:20:06.849 But the idea is, you know, you have a minimal package set or total software 00:20:06.849 --> 00:20:10.329 set inside the image and you build it frequently often. 00:20:10.329 --> 00:20:17.009 And as part of that, you use tools like SIFT and Gripe to actually get reports, 00:20:17.149 --> 00:20:18.289 right? You can build SBOMs. 00:20:18.369 --> 00:20:22.009 You can take a look at, like, what is the actual security output from these tools. 00:20:22.289 --> 00:20:26.669 And so then as part of your build process, you can just only emit images when, 00:20:26.769 --> 00:20:29.629 at least at the time of build, those reports are clean. 00:20:29.749 --> 00:20:30.669 And you can do it quickly. 00:20:30.909 --> 00:20:31.289 Yes. 00:20:31.449 --> 00:20:33.409 You can do it frequently. I see. 00:20:33.569 --> 00:20:37.189 Yeah. And then you can even tie it into upstream vulnerability reports, 00:20:37.289 --> 00:20:40.109 right? So, like, if a vulnerability is patched upstream, you can, 00:20:40.289 --> 00:20:45.729 the pipeline will be looking for that, rebuild, test it, and then push an updated image. 00:20:46.209 --> 00:20:49.169 This, to me, sort of smells like they're going after chain guards territory. 00:20:49.709 --> 00:20:50.869 Yeah, very similar. 00:20:51.209 --> 00:20:51.489 Hmm. 00:20:52.771 --> 00:20:56.071 That's interesting. Now ChainGuard is a direct competitor with Red Hat. 00:20:56.251 --> 00:21:00.591 And we've seen as sort of there has been more pressure in terms of like compliance 00:21:00.591 --> 00:21:04.111 and audits on like what is the software that you're running. 00:21:04.451 --> 00:21:08.691 That's put more pressure on. I mean, once you start producing that information, you see that like, 00:21:09.071 --> 00:21:12.631 oh, we are running a bunch of stuff in these images that maybe never even needs 00:21:12.631 --> 00:21:15.611 to be there at runtime, but just sort of ends up because it has you, 00:21:15.751 --> 00:21:20.251 you know, if you just use standard sort of base images, you kind of have to strip that stuff out. 00:21:20.251 --> 00:21:25.691 And these are built the other way, where they can take this base and provide 00:21:25.691 --> 00:21:29.951 you with very lean application-focused images just to provide NGINX or Postgres or. 00:21:29.951 --> 00:21:33.251 Vendor-required RHEL standard images. 00:21:33.371 --> 00:21:39.371 And I think that's the key competing differentiator that Red Hat has going for 00:21:39.371 --> 00:21:42.551 them versus Chain Guard is Chain Guard is using their own custom distro, 00:21:43.011 --> 00:21:46.711 kind of Alpine style APK formats and all of that, where this is going to be 00:21:46.711 --> 00:21:50.931 a Fedora, you know, Red Hat base. 00:21:51.631 --> 00:21:54.511 And so you could see where this turns into an enterprise product that you could 00:21:54.511 --> 00:21:58.111 run Oracle database on, and you're technically running it on a Red Hat base, 00:21:58.151 --> 00:22:02.611 but you get the advantages of whatever the host operating system is can have, 00:22:02.731 --> 00:22:04.671 quote unquote, zero CVEs or whatever. 00:22:04.671 --> 00:22:08.851 What is kind of neat about that from this perspective is it is kind of classically 00:22:08.851 --> 00:22:11.051 more of an enterprise offering, right? 00:22:11.131 --> 00:22:14.611 And like Red Hat does have Red Hat hardened images and that kind of stuff that they offer at that. 00:22:15.291 --> 00:22:19.071 But this is more on the open side. This is something that can be given to anyone 00:22:19.071 --> 00:22:22.791 who's happy to run stuff built from Fedora Rawhide, which that's us, right? 00:22:23.011 --> 00:22:25.571 Yeah, and you could even boot it with a base image, right? Like, 00:22:25.691 --> 00:22:27.971 I don't believe Chain Guard actually has a bootable Linux distro. 00:22:28.231 --> 00:22:32.231 Right, so this also gets to take advantage of all the very cool work happening with Bootsy. 00:22:32.291 --> 00:22:32.391 Yeah. 00:22:33.603 --> 00:22:34.443 That's neat. 00:22:34.743 --> 00:22:38.603 However, there has been some community backlash. In fact, the discourse thread 00:22:38.603 --> 00:22:41.603 that we'll link to in the show notes is still rolling. 00:22:41.783 --> 00:22:45.083 And there's a certain pattern to it. It seems people are feeling like this is 00:22:45.083 --> 00:22:46.583 sent off stream all over again. 00:22:46.763 --> 00:22:50.343 There was a Red Hat business decision that was pre-announced as a Fedora deliverable 00:22:50.343 --> 00:22:52.923 with kind of a fig leaf community consultation. 00:22:53.283 --> 00:22:54.843 That's a quote from one of their members. 00:22:56.003 --> 00:22:59.503 Yeah, there's feelings kind of like there was some engagement around. 00:22:59.503 --> 00:23:02.583 Maybe we want to explore bringing this into Fedora. 00:23:02.583 --> 00:23:03.563 Hey, we're thinking about this. 00:23:03.763 --> 00:23:06.663 And then sort of it gets announced on stage, and it's like a done deal, and it's happening. 00:23:06.863 --> 00:23:09.223 Two weeks later, Fedora's doing this new thing. And they're like, 00:23:09.263 --> 00:23:10.923 wait, Fedora's doing what? We had no idea. 00:23:11.323 --> 00:23:14.463 And some of the deliverables require some maybe different staffing. 00:23:14.703 --> 00:23:16.443 They require some discussion here. 00:23:18.383 --> 00:23:21.683 And, you know, Red Hat wanted a big, splashy announcement for Summit. 00:23:22.343 --> 00:23:27.603 And Fedora wants to do things the most open way, following their community guidelines 00:23:27.603 --> 00:23:29.963 and all of that. And the two are sometimes... 00:23:31.404 --> 00:23:35.264 not compatible. And I thought some of the key quotes put it pretty well. 00:23:35.344 --> 00:23:37.244 One was, maybe you should read it. Wes, you read it. 00:23:37.584 --> 00:23:42.384 Wow. Frankly, that article sounds hostile to me. It's basically claiming to be Fedora Linux. 00:23:42.564 --> 00:23:46.804 Then again, that it is not, but that it is as secure as opposed to everything 00:23:46.804 --> 00:23:49.984 else with curated kernel config and elaborate engineering framework, 00:23:50.224 --> 00:23:54.644 a whole blank load of sales pitch. So what is it? Fedora or not Fedora? 00:23:54.824 --> 00:23:57.364 There might even be some good ideas in there, but given how this started and 00:23:57.364 --> 00:23:59.844 how it is communicated, I can put zero trust in this. 00:23:59.844 --> 00:24:03.264 Yeah. Matthew Miller, former project leader, chimed in, quote, 00:24:03.444 --> 00:24:07.204 as a former project leader, I know that there's always a tension between transparency 00:24:07.204 --> 00:24:10.784 and Red Hat's business and marketing desire to have a splashy, 00:24:10.844 --> 00:24:11.704 exciting announcement at Summit. 00:24:12.004 --> 00:24:14.364 Once that's settled down, the real work can start. 00:24:14.364 --> 00:24:19.264 It is a good perspective in that this is not the first time there's been some 00:24:19.264 --> 00:24:25.224 version of this in terms of a clash between a strong community distro that is 00:24:25.224 --> 00:24:33.564 very much a part and often funded by a proprietary business that has its own needs and timelines. 00:24:33.564 --> 00:24:37.624 Yeah. And then there's this adjacent announcement. It's a separate announcement, 00:24:37.864 --> 00:24:44.044 but it's kind of feeling in the same groove, is a Fedora AI developer desktop. 00:24:44.784 --> 00:24:48.584 And Fedora is considering an initiative that they might call the Fedora AI developer 00:24:48.584 --> 00:24:54.264 desktop that would be a spin of the Atomic desktop with some AI tooling built in. 00:24:54.484 --> 00:24:58.064 The goal here, they say, is to make an AI development on Fedora less painful 00:24:58.064 --> 00:25:02.024 by introducing better tooling and packaging. It also aims to offer a smoother 00:25:02.024 --> 00:25:06.004 experience for users running AI applications and dedicated space for developers 00:25:06.004 --> 00:25:08.784 to get their work in front of people who might actually use it. 00:25:10.770 --> 00:25:16.150 So the proposal was submitted at the end of March. It was voted yes unanimously. 00:25:17.650 --> 00:25:21.930 And then one council member retracted their vote and changed their vote to negative 00:25:21.930 --> 00:25:23.670 one. The council requires full consensus. 00:25:24.070 --> 00:25:28.050 And once you no longer have full consensus, it has to go to the community for 00:25:28.050 --> 00:25:30.390 discussion. And boy, has it. 00:25:30.830 --> 00:25:35.270 Boy, has it. As it should, I would imagine. This is a large topic. 00:25:37.703 --> 00:25:42.443 Yeah. Where do we even start with this? Because the reaction to this is quite bad. 00:25:42.703 --> 00:25:49.543 The Fedora community is concerned with what has been promised as a deliverable. 00:25:49.823 --> 00:25:51.183 Things like an LTS kernel. 00:25:51.523 --> 00:25:54.863 The current Fedora kernel maintainer doesn't really even have the time to maintain 00:25:54.863 --> 00:25:58.143 the kernel Fedora, let alone take on an LTS project, which is sort of antithetical 00:25:58.143 --> 00:25:59.163 to Fedora in the first part. 00:25:59.163 --> 00:26:02.163 Yeah i think the like it there is some 00:26:02.163 --> 00:26:04.923 interest in it and there's some discussion of maybe 00:26:04.923 --> 00:26:07.743 could this be like a like a spin or a remake like 00:26:07.743 --> 00:26:11.143 could there be a different form of like how it fits yeah uh-huh um 00:26:11.143 --> 00:26:13.963 but it does come in kind of clash with 00:26:13.963 --> 00:26:17.443 both uh policies and philosophies perhaps 00:26:17.443 --> 00:26:20.123 in terms of like do we even allow shipping you know 00:26:20.123 --> 00:26:23.123 these out-of-tree kernel modules um but then 00:26:23.123 --> 00:26:26.563 also just with existing constraints in terms of like you know fedora's kind 00:26:26.563 --> 00:26:29.983 of just been shipping this one kernel as to simplify things like they ship a 00:26:29.983 --> 00:26:34.343 very clean kernel it's very like a simple process and there's not a lot of actual 00:26:34.343 --> 00:26:37.983 human infrastructure right now powering that process and so if you make that 00:26:37.983 --> 00:26:42.523 process complicated and suddenly you have more outputs that could really break things. 00:26:42.523 --> 00:26:45.563 I think there's also an issue here where now they have this ability to ship 00:26:45.563 --> 00:26:48.443 some of the invidious stuff but that would technically taint the kernel which 00:26:48.443 --> 00:26:51.883 fedor classically i mean this is one of the reasons linus likes to use it as a clean kernel. 00:26:51.883 --> 00:26:54.843 Buddy of the show neil gampa has been involved in the discussion 00:26:54.843 --> 00:27:00.903 kind of brings up that there's value to the reputation in the kernel and fedora 00:27:00.903 --> 00:27:04.243 often works with stuff like they work with the upstream butterfs developers 00:27:04.243 --> 00:27:07.583 and the upstream kernel developers really like knowing that fedora ships this 00:27:07.583 --> 00:27:11.043 really clean kernel and so when they get reports from those systems they can 00:27:11.043 --> 00:27:13.343 trust them and use them for debugging so. 00:27:13.343 --> 00:27:18.203 There's also a couple of uncomfortable tensions here and brent i don't know 00:27:18.203 --> 00:27:21.083 i don't if you have any thoughts feel free to to, 00:27:24.081 --> 00:27:28.001 does Fedora need to respond to this moment? One of the arguments that I've seen 00:27:28.001 --> 00:27:31.321 made is that there's really no evidence that people are passing over Fedora 00:27:31.321 --> 00:27:33.481 because they don't have an AI spin right now. 00:27:34.001 --> 00:27:37.621 And I wonder, is that a valid argument? 00:27:38.281 --> 00:27:43.481 And then the second part to that, when I think about it, outside of Red Hat 00:27:43.481 --> 00:27:50.201 native shops and Red Hat themselves, I am unaware of any production agentic 00:27:50.201 --> 00:27:51.801 loads that are being deployed on Fedora. 00:27:52.861 --> 00:27:56.121 It's just not really happening much at scale outside of Red Hat specific shop. 00:27:56.261 --> 00:27:57.641 So, Brent, I wonder, is this a moment? 00:27:58.301 --> 00:28:01.781 Does the distro need to have an answer for AI tools and people that want to 00:28:01.781 --> 00:28:03.761 get started with AI quickly? Or is that... 00:28:04.703 --> 00:28:05.643 Not their concern? 00:28:05.983 --> 00:28:11.483 Hmm. Well, I mean, in our episode about Ubuntu recently, we heard that they're 00:28:11.483 --> 00:28:13.043 making strides to make this easier. 00:28:13.043 --> 00:28:18.423 So one could argue that any distribution that wants to stay relevant will at 00:28:18.423 --> 00:28:25.583 least have to look at this as a possibility for the future of how computers will be used. 00:28:25.763 --> 00:28:27.863 I mean, that's one of the arguments we've heard. 00:28:27.863 --> 00:28:32.543 I would say anyone who's ever argued that you should use Discord to reach the 00:28:32.543 --> 00:28:34.863 youngs should also be in favor of this. 00:28:35.043 --> 00:28:38.363 Because this would be one of the arguments. If you want to reach the youngs, 00:28:38.463 --> 00:28:40.043 you need to be where the youngs are at. 00:28:40.163 --> 00:28:40.523 100%. 00:28:40.523 --> 00:28:45.023 And that's the argument for people to throw away their open source hard line 00:28:45.023 --> 00:28:46.783 when it comes to chat platforms and use Discord. 00:28:47.243 --> 00:28:51.303 So it would be interesting to see some of those Discord stands try to argue against this. 00:28:51.303 --> 00:28:56.723 But I think the bigger question that the community is bringing up here is whether 00:28:56.723 --> 00:28:58.863 Fedora is the right place to do this. 00:28:59.203 --> 00:28:59.523 Yeah. 00:28:59.823 --> 00:29:03.663 And I think overwhelmingly we're seeing that maybe that answer is no. 00:29:04.103 --> 00:29:07.203 So is Red Hat pushing this in the wrong place, perhaps? 00:29:08.023 --> 00:29:13.563 I don't know, because I think if you look at some of the comments by Jeff Spolita, that there's... 00:29:13.563 --> 00:29:17.803 I think he's quite eloquently sort of expressed this, what Chris was saying, 00:29:17.943 --> 00:29:21.803 in terms of like... He worries a lot about how do you attract the people who 00:29:21.803 --> 00:29:24.063 he was when he joined Fedora. 00:29:24.523 --> 00:29:29.103 And that those folks are just using, to some degree, lesser and more, 00:29:29.323 --> 00:29:32.683 these tools, because these tools are kind of just normal as they learn how to interface. 00:29:32.683 --> 00:29:34.763 They're not on IRC chat rooms anymore. Right. 00:29:35.003 --> 00:29:35.703 And so... 00:29:36.996 --> 00:29:40.636 And then it kind of comes also to an issue we've discussed on the show before, 00:29:40.776 --> 00:29:45.856 which is if the folks involved in the discussion do value the philosophies and 00:29:45.856 --> 00:29:50.376 attitudes and ethics of Fedora and its community, if they're not in the discussion 00:29:50.376 --> 00:29:53.036 with these tools, then those values really don't get representation. 00:29:53.156 --> 00:29:57.916 And so maybe there's value to folks in whatever final form it takes that the 00:29:57.916 --> 00:30:01.396 folks in Fedora can bring to this so that if these tools are staying around 00:30:01.396 --> 00:30:06.256 and it seems like they are, how do we do that in a way that matches what the folks here want? 00:30:06.256 --> 00:30:10.256 Like what's the Fedora implementation of these ideas? I like that. 00:30:10.916 --> 00:30:14.636 And when the Fedora implements something, does that philosophy sometimes carry 00:30:14.636 --> 00:30:17.156 through to some of the users and how they use the technology and the choices 00:30:17.156 --> 00:30:19.816 they make? And if it does, then Fedora probably does want to be there. 00:30:20.916 --> 00:30:25.076 So my thoughts on this are complicated because a couple of things jumped out at me. 00:30:26.805 --> 00:30:30.765 reading through this thread. And I do think maybe a Fedora LTS kernel would 00:30:30.765 --> 00:30:34.585 be kind of a cool idea. I may actually end up, you know, reconcerting Fedora for a few other tasks. 00:30:35.105 --> 00:30:38.245 But I think the Bluefin folks, you blue folks have a LTS kernel. 00:30:39.265 --> 00:30:42.945 But I think if you step back and we're just going to try to steel man this and 00:30:42.945 --> 00:30:46.665 you put a business hat on and pretend like you're a CEO or some executive at 00:30:46.665 --> 00:30:49.225 Red Hat and you try to look at the macro picture, 00:30:49.485 --> 00:30:54.985 I wonder if these types of discussions won't bring in the beginning of the end 00:30:54.985 --> 00:30:59.165 of a traditional distribution model like this free software project attached 00:30:59.165 --> 00:31:02.205 to a large corporate sponsor. Because think about it this way. 00:31:03.525 --> 00:31:07.245 Imagine you're a massive enterprise tech company and you've decided you must 00:31:07.245 --> 00:31:09.085 be a dominant leader in the gold rush. 00:31:09.665 --> 00:31:13.985 This is their thinking. So you have to cook up a top to bottom strategy because 00:31:13.985 --> 00:31:16.425 you have to be a dominant platform to survive. 00:31:16.725 --> 00:31:20.105 So at the top, you got like high level enterprise contracts worth millions, 00:31:20.345 --> 00:31:24.645 at the bottom you have the picks and shovels layer, the free open source infrastructure 00:31:24.645 --> 00:31:25.905 that feeds the whole pipeline. 00:31:26.425 --> 00:31:29.585 There's a problem. You don't actually own the shovel makers. 00:31:29.805 --> 00:31:32.205 The open source community runs the shovel factory. 00:31:33.205 --> 00:31:37.425 So to execute your multi-million dollar master plan that the survival of your 00:31:37.425 --> 00:31:42.185 company depends on, you need that shovel factory to start churning out a brand new type of AI tool. 00:31:42.385 --> 00:31:46.925 You literally cannot succeed without them. But the folks running the factory... 00:31:48.540 --> 00:31:51.820 They've got questions, and they have valid concerns about licensing, 00:31:52.200 --> 00:31:55.940 standards, and some of them are really burning out, and they can't take on more work. 00:31:56.160 --> 00:31:58.640 And they want to sit down, they want to slow down, and they want to discuss 00:31:58.640 --> 00:32:02.240 the details, mostly because they suspect there might be a corporate master plan 00:32:02.240 --> 00:32:03.820 at play, and they'd like to know more. 00:32:04.960 --> 00:32:08.380 But you've got to imagine in the corporate boardroom, this community discussion, 00:32:08.400 --> 00:32:10.260 it's going to come across. 00:32:11.400 --> 00:32:13.520 You can imagine it being seen as a cost, right? 00:32:13.640 --> 00:32:16.180 Yeah, it's slowing things down, and there's no time to spare. 00:32:16.760 --> 00:32:19.240 It's an externality we have to manage that we don't fully control. 00:32:19.660 --> 00:32:22.780 And they're going to be thinking, right or wrong, they're going to be thinking, 00:32:22.940 --> 00:32:24.040 well, we're in the age of AI. 00:32:24.440 --> 00:32:27.340 Somebody could just vibe code a replacement for something that we offer. 00:32:27.560 --> 00:32:32.720 A competitor can come along and start building and shipping at light speed. We have got to move. 00:32:34.460 --> 00:32:38.260 And maybe somebody like a chain guard or somebody is out there eating market 00:32:38.260 --> 00:32:41.980 share and you're still negotiating with the factory workers on a discussion forum. 00:32:43.584 --> 00:32:47.284 You have to wonder if that's when the people in that same boardroom have a realization 00:32:47.284 --> 00:32:50.284 that what if we just bypass the factory entirely? 00:32:50.744 --> 00:32:54.524 I mean, they're already building these hardened images and these Fedora hummingbird 00:32:54.524 --> 00:32:56.684 hardening images on their own through their own pipeline. 00:32:58.044 --> 00:33:01.224 So why wouldn't they start thinking maybe we can just replace the traditional 00:33:01.224 --> 00:33:05.364 distribution factory with, you know, Claude 5-0 or whatever it's going to be 00:33:05.364 --> 00:33:06.484 and they'll just build it themselves? 00:33:07.304 --> 00:33:11.904 So I think there's not only this tension of like, we don't have the capacity 00:33:11.904 --> 00:33:16.344 or the resources and we have questions, but then there's also this inevitability 00:33:16.344 --> 00:33:21.864 that debate about drivers and tainting and all of this just slows the process down. 00:33:22.524 --> 00:33:26.004 And it just deepens that tension. And eventually some of these, 00:33:26.104 --> 00:33:28.684 I don't know if it's going to be Red Hat, probably not, but some of these corporate 00:33:28.684 --> 00:33:32.004 sponsors are going to snap and they're just going to start bypassing the community. 00:33:32.004 --> 00:33:35.884 I think it's a stress test for that relationship and for their long-term values 00:33:35.884 --> 00:33:41.504 and if those are something that they're willing to accept this tradeoff for or not. 00:33:41.684 --> 00:33:45.844 It just feels like that's really what's at play here and the stakes couldn't 00:33:45.844 --> 00:33:49.564 be higher with this one particular example. There's just so much. 00:33:49.584 --> 00:33:53.044 It's showing up in these couple of ways, but there's more cooking underneath, yeah. 00:33:55.704 --> 00:33:58.304 Well, thank you to everybody who supports the show with a boost. 00:33:58.304 --> 00:34:02.824 That direct contribution goes to all of us, plus Editor Drew and the creator of your podcast app. 00:34:03.004 --> 00:34:06.604 And if you boost above 2,000 sats, you get your message read on the air. 00:34:06.684 --> 00:34:10.144 So it's a way to get a message in, send us some feedback, and support the show at the same time. 00:34:10.364 --> 00:34:14.764 All of it sent over a peer-to-peer free software network. The entire stack is 00:34:14.764 --> 00:34:18.264 free software, which we absolutely love, which means we can build all kind of tooling around. 00:34:19.624 --> 00:34:24.924 And it's a really fun process if you're up for learning, if you're up for that. 00:34:25.024 --> 00:34:27.324 Because once you get it set up, it's really easy. But the setup is the hard 00:34:27.324 --> 00:34:31.304 part. once you get it set up you can just boost away and we do appreciate everybody 00:34:31.304 --> 00:34:32.324 who supports the show directly. 00:34:35.641 --> 00:34:38.521 Well, Rich was thinking about us this week, writing in twice. 00:34:38.981 --> 00:34:44.081 Rich is asking how Chris plans to update his Hypervibe configs for Hyperland 00:34:44.081 --> 00:34:48.481 0.55's new Lua-based configuration system. 00:34:48.921 --> 00:34:53.061 He's uncertain how the architectural shift will affect the Hypervibe setups 00:34:53.061 --> 00:34:55.541 already packaged inside RichArch. 00:34:55.681 --> 00:35:01.461 He notes that RichArch has already released an updated Hypervibe spin featuring 00:35:01.461 --> 00:35:03.821 Noctalia shell on Hyperland. 00:35:03.821 --> 00:35:09.341 But the Lua config migration may require further work to fully align with the 00:35:09.341 --> 00:35:10.901 new system. Chris, any thoughts? 00:35:11.481 --> 00:35:18.581 It is a big change for old Hyperland. It came out on May 9th, Hyperland 0.5. 00:35:18.801 --> 00:35:24.361 And the big, big thing in there, like Rich mentioned, is the config is now done in Lua. 00:35:25.921 --> 00:35:31.781 But you don't actually have your configs broken right away. There is a transition, 00:35:31.781 --> 00:35:35.961 and it's pretty easy to have both existing at the same time right now. 00:35:36.761 --> 00:35:39.701 But I'm actually surprised Rich asked this. 00:35:40.911 --> 00:35:45.411 You know, I wonder, how old is the old Hypervibe repo now? 00:35:45.551 --> 00:35:46.071 Good question. 00:35:46.431 --> 00:35:47.791 Do you have a guess? 00:35:47.831 --> 00:35:54.451 A year? Yeah, no. Is it not that long? Maybe your project's been that long, 00:35:54.571 --> 00:35:55.591 but the repo's kind of... 00:35:55.591 --> 00:35:58.251 What's the fastest way to tell? Just look at the commits or what? What's my... 00:35:58.251 --> 00:35:59.751 Yeah, go see the oldest commit. 00:35:59.871 --> 00:36:02.051 All right. Do I have to scroll down for that? Oh, gosh. It's going to be pages. 00:36:02.051 --> 00:36:04.291 Oh, yeah. You've probably made a lot of commits. 00:36:04.531 --> 00:36:05.371 It's going to be pages. 00:36:05.831 --> 00:36:08.251 You might be able to go into the project analytics. 00:36:09.351 --> 00:36:10.551 So what I was thinking... 00:36:10.551 --> 00:36:11.271 Do I have it locally? 00:36:11.351 --> 00:36:14.431 Oh, God. I'm only on February right now. I don't know how to tell. 00:36:14.691 --> 00:36:15.751 Yeah, I got... 00:36:16.511 --> 00:36:19.411 But what I was thinking about this is... 00:36:19.411 --> 00:36:24.391 Initial commit, Sunday, August 10th, 2025. So not quite a year, but coming up. 00:36:25.771 --> 00:36:26.171 Wow. 00:36:26.611 --> 00:36:28.231 Do I win by Price is Right rules there? 00:36:29.031 --> 00:36:34.251 It's a little bit blowing my noodle at this moment how much the tooling has 00:36:34.251 --> 00:36:35.771 changed and improved since I started this. 00:36:35.911 --> 00:36:41.311 Because what I created Hypervibe with feels archaic compared to what we can do now. 00:36:41.531 --> 00:36:41.771 Totally. 00:36:43.731 --> 00:36:46.451 If you were doing it today, would you even call it vibing, really? 00:36:47.231 --> 00:36:49.351 No, I don't think so. No, because... 00:36:49.351 --> 00:36:50.431 Because you're an agentic developer. 00:36:50.671 --> 00:36:54.431 It'd be agentic, hyper agent... I don't know, agentic. 00:36:54.591 --> 00:36:54.991 Hygentic? 00:36:55.731 --> 00:37:00.811 There you go. Hygentic is good. But I'm surprised Rich is asking this because, 00:37:00.911 --> 00:37:03.611 of course, I'm just tasking the machine to just... 00:37:03.611 --> 00:37:04.351 We'll convert it. 00:37:04.511 --> 00:37:05.931 Convert to the new... And it worked well. 00:37:06.111 --> 00:37:09.591 I will say, this has me a little more interested in Hyperland. 00:37:09.771 --> 00:37:10.011 Oh, yeah? 00:37:10.151 --> 00:37:10.351 Uh-huh. 00:37:10.551 --> 00:37:10.731 Oh. 00:37:10.851 --> 00:37:11.251 How come? 00:37:11.291 --> 00:37:14.191 I like Lua, and it's a nice way to do it, I think, and, um... 00:37:15.067 --> 00:37:16.207 I'd like to try it. 00:37:16.587 --> 00:37:17.307 So good decision? 00:37:18.007 --> 00:37:22.247 It was the only gotcha I had is I had a custom script that set my monitor refresh 00:37:22.247 --> 00:37:26.607 rate once and then paused and then set it again because it was working around 00:37:26.607 --> 00:37:28.427 an old problem, which is no longer in Hyperland. 00:37:28.647 --> 00:37:31.147 And so I had to undo that. But otherwise, completely smooth transition. 00:37:31.447 --> 00:37:35.267 You mean in your NixOS you had some initialization script? 00:37:35.467 --> 00:37:37.167 No activation scripts at all. 00:37:37.287 --> 00:37:39.927 No, not me. We also got another email from you. 00:37:39.927 --> 00:37:43.847 You've turned that. Activation script concept into an entire operating system. 00:37:43.847 --> 00:37:46.167 Yeah, one day I'm just going to bake it all into one Go binary. 00:37:47.347 --> 00:37:53.267 Well, Rich also wrote in the next day saying that they caught the Red Hat Summit. 00:37:53.267 --> 00:37:56.587 Well, they actually caught the Red Hat Summit, unlike your dear Brent, 00:37:56.767 --> 00:37:58.587 and dropped a quick field report. 00:37:58.967 --> 00:38:03.347 The vendor expo floor was dominated by AI and OpenShift demos. 00:38:03.907 --> 00:38:07.667 Red Hat's two biggest pushes right now, they say. And notably, 00:38:07.887 --> 00:38:12.467 Microsoft maintained a large booth presence, underscoring the still strong Microsoft 00:38:12.467 --> 00:38:14.327 and Red Hat partnership. 00:38:15.187 --> 00:38:18.727 Rich did keep the report brief, but the picture was quite clear. 00:38:18.927 --> 00:38:23.027 If you wanted to see anything other than AI orchestration and OpenShift at Red 00:38:23.027 --> 00:38:27.227 Hat in 2026, you were completely out of luck. 00:38:27.527 --> 00:38:31.387 Yeah, we knew it was going to be AI heavy. We weren't sure how hard they were 00:38:31.387 --> 00:38:32.447 going to lean into agents. 00:38:32.607 --> 00:38:36.107 And then they ended up calling agents the future of work. So they leaned in pretty hard. 00:38:36.787 --> 00:38:39.487 Appreciate the report. Anybody that ever goes to an event like this that wants 00:38:39.487 --> 00:38:42.107 to send us a report, even if it's an event that we're also monitoring or going 00:38:42.107 --> 00:38:43.387 to, we still like your report. 00:38:43.747 --> 00:38:45.827 And if you're going to be there, we always hope to be able to say hi, too. 00:38:46.387 --> 00:38:51.647 And appreciate that, Rich. Good luck with the transition to the Lua stuff. 00:38:51.967 --> 00:38:54.627 I think it'll go pretty smooth. Just, you know, ask the machine to do it, 00:38:54.687 --> 00:38:56.067 Rich. What could go wrong? It's funny. 00:38:56.427 --> 00:38:59.747 It strikes me that Rich is taking something that is machine-generated and then 00:38:59.747 --> 00:39:02.147 handcrafting from it. Perhaps there's something to that. 00:39:03.127 --> 00:39:04.827 Perhaps there's a future there. Who knows? 00:39:10.117 --> 00:39:14.377 Well, Greg the Lawyer is our baller booster this week, and he's coming in. 00:39:14.457 --> 00:39:15.337 Get ready for this, boys. 00:39:18.917 --> 00:39:20.817 233,333 Satoshis. 00:39:23.017 --> 00:39:24.477 That makes him the best. 00:39:29.757 --> 00:39:31.577 More like Greg the Baller. 00:39:35.677 --> 00:39:40.077 Boosting in memory of the van. You guys are killing it. I use OpenSense Firewall, 00:39:40.197 --> 00:39:41.257 and it does fail over perfectly. 00:39:41.597 --> 00:39:43.937 Oh. Well, that's very nice. Thank you, Greg. 00:39:44.497 --> 00:39:48.137 Have we ever heard from Greg before? Is he our first-time booster here? What's going on, boys? 00:39:48.157 --> 00:39:49.477 I feel like we must have. 00:39:49.637 --> 00:39:49.857 I believe we have. 00:39:49.857 --> 00:39:54.417 I do believe Greg is in our Element chat, our Matrix chat, too. 00:39:54.417 --> 00:39:56.757 Greg, thank you for being our baller booster. Just put this episode over the 00:39:56.757 --> 00:39:59.037 top this week, so I really do appreciate it. 00:39:59.417 --> 00:40:02.857 And, yeah, did he boost that memory, that van part from this morning? 00:40:02.857 --> 00:40:08.637 because the bootleg, let's just say the California repair has gone wrong in 00:40:08.637 --> 00:40:11.237 a way that I don't think anybody could have ever predicted or expected. 00:40:11.537 --> 00:40:15.877 And whatever you're assuming it could have been is not it. And it's worth the bootleg right there. 00:40:16.817 --> 00:40:18.637 Thank you, Greg. I really do appreciate that. 00:40:19.937 --> 00:40:22.297 Landlocked Boosin with 25,000 cents. 00:40:22.417 --> 00:40:22.777 All right. 00:40:26.317 --> 00:40:30.257 Listening for a long time and finally set up Albie Hub with my own Bitcoin node. 00:40:30.497 --> 00:40:30.917 Nice. 00:40:31.777 --> 00:40:33.337 Keep up the truly great work. 00:40:33.337 --> 00:40:36.977 Well done Thank you so much for taking the time to do that But also I hope you 00:40:36.977 --> 00:40:41.197 had a lot of fun It is a very good learning experience Well done, 00:40:41.277 --> 00:40:42.877 Landlocked Thank you very much. 00:40:42.877 --> 00:40:49.357 Nyquist sent in a 5,000 set test boost for us And we will say success. 00:40:50.537 --> 00:40:54.537 Received Thank you very much, Nyquist Always welcome to test with us. 00:40:54.537 --> 00:41:05.517 Tomato and or tomato also boosted in with a total of 6,660 satoshis. 00:41:11.578 --> 00:41:15.438 Here's a little BSD challenge report. Couldn't find the time for the BSD challenge 00:41:15.438 --> 00:41:19.358 last week, so I did this week. It is not hammer time. 00:41:20.058 --> 00:41:26.018 I tried Dragonfly BSD, and I now see why disliking it is a meme among BSD users. 00:41:26.558 --> 00:41:29.258 I did get open BSD running, however. 00:41:29.598 --> 00:41:32.878 Daily driver level didn't try the sound, though. 00:41:33.158 --> 00:41:37.938 Everything in power user category of the challenge, too. So 23 points for me. 00:41:38.218 --> 00:41:38.678 Nice. 00:41:38.838 --> 00:41:39.258 Well done. 00:41:39.258 --> 00:41:45.278 As for the question in the episode of why BSD, I think Wes was on the right track with that one. 00:41:45.438 --> 00:41:49.698 I'm a regular NetBSD user, and I've been since the 90s. Wow. 00:41:50.538 --> 00:41:54.258 It's well-designed, it's simple, and I understand all the parts of the system. 00:41:54.438 --> 00:41:57.178 I can read the source, find what I need, and change it easily. 00:41:57.178 --> 00:42:01.158 It rebuilds, even cross-compiled, easily and quickly. 00:42:01.358 --> 00:42:06.718 The whole thing is not janky and not a big pile of hacks. I'm happy with Linux 00:42:06.718 --> 00:42:12.818 having all the features and NetBSD being stable and no churn no need to constantly 00:42:12.818 --> 00:42:14.238 relearn things alright. 00:42:14.518 --> 00:42:19.738 I mean it's the same argument the anti-SystemD crowd uses and I still think 00:42:19.738 --> 00:42:23.198 SystemD is worth having, but I do like that there is an alternative, 00:42:23.398 --> 00:42:27.178 something that for people that don't want things to change. 00:42:27.518 --> 00:42:31.678 To exist I think that was very well very well said. 00:42:31.738 --> 00:42:36.558 Tomato it was, Tomato, I'm being a little cantankerous on purpose about it just 00:42:36.558 --> 00:42:37.938 to sort of poke the BSD folks. 00:42:38.258 --> 00:42:42.138 But it is the same argument the anti-SystemD crowd would make for going with 00:42:42.138 --> 00:42:43.138 DavWan or something like that. 00:42:43.198 --> 00:42:44.658 Somebody got a horn in their back. 00:42:45.178 --> 00:42:48.898 But, no. I think it's a good point, and I'm, you know, in that context, 00:42:48.898 --> 00:42:52.438 because we do have Linux and SystemD, and we do have those changes and that 00:42:52.438 --> 00:42:55.258 evolution, it is nice to have something that remains sort of, 00:42:55.298 --> 00:42:59.458 you learned it 10 years ago, and gosh darn it, if you want to type IP configure, 00:42:59.638 --> 00:43:01.578 whatever it is, you're going to get it. 00:43:01.658 --> 00:43:03.418 And you know what? but it's still going to be called ETH Zero, 00:43:03.558 --> 00:43:06.738 and it's going to stay that way. And that's how it's going to be, and I like that about it. 00:43:08.040 --> 00:43:14.460 So it be. So it be. Distro Stew comes in with 11,111 sats. Woo. 00:43:15.200 --> 00:43:17.160 I feel like there's a message in there somewhere. 00:43:17.400 --> 00:43:19.340 Nice to hear from Distro Stew. 00:43:19.440 --> 00:43:25.840 It is. It is. Distro Stew's a good guy. I ran OpenBSD on a ThinkPad 20 years ago with Wi-Fi working. 00:43:26.160 --> 00:43:29.560 Back then, Linux and BSD were about as painful to use as each other. 00:43:29.980 --> 00:43:33.300 Yeah, I understand that. But I'm still using OpenSense on some of my routers. 00:43:33.400 --> 00:43:33.600 Nice. 00:43:33.880 --> 00:43:37.300 I revisited FreeBSD, and I do that from time to time, but I'm a developer and 00:43:37.300 --> 00:43:39.500 the experience has gotten worse over time for me. 00:43:39.640 --> 00:43:39.740 Oh, no. 00:43:39.880 --> 00:43:43.140 Most IDEs barely work and I need Docker for a bunch of my workflows. 00:43:43.400 --> 00:43:46.380 I think BSD has always been good for appliances or data centers, 00:43:46.400 --> 00:43:50.000 but it's only been backed more into a corner over the years. 00:43:50.080 --> 00:43:54.520 It continues to surprise me how little BSD has, and you're probably going to say evolve or change. 00:43:55.260 --> 00:43:58.720 I feel like it's a little bit of the Fedora thing. Like nobody's really using 00:43:58.720 --> 00:44:03.300 Fedora for AI workloads outside of core Red Hat customers. 00:44:04.240 --> 00:44:06.880 But like when people are building these projects right now, they're not really 00:44:06.880 --> 00:44:09.920 deploying Fedora out there when they're setting up their first open claw. 00:44:10.980 --> 00:44:14.380 And that was how things began for BSD as well. 00:44:15.000 --> 00:44:17.460 It's just, well, yeah, but when I set up this new thing, I do it on the lamp 00:44:17.460 --> 00:44:20.180 stack. And when I do this new thing, I do it, you know, and that's just over time. 00:44:20.900 --> 00:44:24.780 I'm not drawing a direct line there. I'm just pointing out that that is something that happens. 00:44:26.460 --> 00:44:29.720 Olmec comes in with 15,453 sats. 00:44:32.040 --> 00:44:40.940 first time booster hey yes nice well done double points because using my own albi hub. 00:44:45.856 --> 00:44:46.676 Very impressed. 00:44:47.156 --> 00:44:51.356 What is your view on Linux's MDADM or MDAdmin? 00:44:51.516 --> 00:44:52.296 Got to ask a good question. 00:44:52.356 --> 00:44:55.516 At work, we use hardware RAID in most of our servers. And in my experience, 00:44:55.676 --> 00:44:58.536 the RAID controllers often die faster than the disks themselves. 00:44:58.996 --> 00:45:04.176 That has been, ironically, my observation as well. And I will state, 00:45:04.436 --> 00:45:09.496 I started life in IT as a RAID controller stand. 00:45:09.836 --> 00:45:14.596 Very big fan, battery-powered, had additional RAM on there, very precarious 00:45:14.596 --> 00:45:16.116 and particular about which one. 00:45:16.816 --> 00:45:22.416 And over the years, I have personally gone to completely trusting software RAID. 00:45:22.556 --> 00:45:26.796 I find it more flexible. I find it to be perfectly stable and reliable. 00:45:27.076 --> 00:45:28.176 I'm curious, your thought. 00:45:28.536 --> 00:45:32.436 Yeah, he does continue here. However, the sysadmins are quite skeptical of software RAID. 00:45:32.556 --> 00:45:33.596 A lot of traditional folks are. 00:45:33.816 --> 00:45:38.896 Why do you think this is? P.S., defining a RAID setup via NixOS Disco works incredibly well. 00:45:38.896 --> 00:45:42.256 Yeah, I have to say, especially, too, if you're going to deploy, 00:45:42.276 --> 00:45:46.956 like, a large ZFS pool in a RAID, you really just don't want hardware RAID in 00:45:46.956 --> 00:45:50.476 the mix. You want to let ZFS manage that whole stack, and it's going to probably 00:45:50.476 --> 00:45:52.436 do a better job than a RAID controller will. 00:45:52.965 --> 00:45:56.825 So I just think it's an older way of looking at things, and it shows you how 00:45:56.825 --> 00:46:00.005 these things change over time, but people get entrenched in a particular workflow. 00:46:00.245 --> 00:46:05.545 I mean, it still works for them. But the worst thing ever is when your RAID controller dies. 00:46:05.845 --> 00:46:08.745 Your disks are fine. It looks like a disk failure at first or something like that. 00:46:08.805 --> 00:46:11.965 It's the worst when it's the RAID controller itself, which is supposed to be 00:46:11.965 --> 00:46:14.665 providing redundancy, is the thing that takes you out. 00:46:14.785 --> 00:46:18.165 I do think maybe you do have to watch out for things like if you needed RAID 00:46:18.165 --> 00:46:20.085 5 and there's still the right hole problem. 00:46:20.585 --> 00:46:24.165 and there may be particular performance profiles or certain workloads or whatever 00:46:24.165 --> 00:46:25.305 that maybe there makes a case for. 00:46:25.405 --> 00:46:28.645 But I do think in this day and age, it behooves one to actually look because 00:46:28.645 --> 00:46:30.585 Linux has made great strides in that subsystem. 00:46:30.825 --> 00:46:34.825 And so there are a lot of things that, between like sort of atomic guarantees 00:46:34.825 --> 00:46:38.805 and performance and especially flexibility, that it probably makes sense in 00:46:38.805 --> 00:46:42.125 a lot of situations. And it's worth exploring what the real limitations are. 00:46:42.225 --> 00:46:46.385 Yeah, it's not 100% black and white because there is different considerations 00:46:46.385 --> 00:46:50.545 and constraints when you're doing software RAID, just like there's a lot of 00:46:50.545 --> 00:46:52.865 different constraints and considerations when you're doing a hardware RAID. 00:46:53.145 --> 00:46:56.885 And you may not want to map them one-to-one. And so if you're a shop that only 00:46:56.885 --> 00:46:59.365 knows hardware RAID, it's probably going to be safer. 00:46:59.505 --> 00:47:02.745 Or you have a particular need and a relationship with a vendor and you're well-supported, 00:47:02.825 --> 00:47:05.445 then that's a different situation than like, I'm not going to be able to afford 00:47:05.445 --> 00:47:08.825 to replace this hardware controller on demand and I'm worried about these disks 00:47:08.825 --> 00:47:10.925 maintaining this array long-term. That's a very different position. 00:47:10.985 --> 00:47:14.485 Or you're trying to pitch like some large ZFS pool for your shop to have a huge 00:47:14.485 --> 00:47:18.885 storage of data on a ZFS array. and you you know you got the you know the folks 00:47:18.885 --> 00:47:21.685 that are trying to suggest you go hardware rate that's when you go hold on a 00:47:21.685 --> 00:47:25.125 second here hold on a second here well. 00:47:25.125 --> 00:47:30.565 A dude is trying stuff by boosting six thousand seven hundred and sixty seven cents, 00:47:34.254 --> 00:47:35.654 Gen Z boost. 00:47:36.254 --> 00:47:36.874 All right. 00:47:37.794 --> 00:47:41.094 Do we have something for that? Do we have a Gen Z? 00:47:41.514 --> 00:47:42.614 We have to work on that. 00:47:42.974 --> 00:47:47.234 What would be a Gen Z boost? I'm not sure. You let me know. 00:47:48.174 --> 00:47:52.374 Question. If we eventually get to the point where we have a legitimate local 00:47:52.374 --> 00:47:58.454 AI model that is broadly and privately helping people day to day to be able to infer, 00:47:58.914 --> 00:48:02.734 well, do inference with their computer, Do you see personal computers being 00:48:02.734 --> 00:48:06.234 equipped with GPUs for local inference in the long term? 00:48:06.234 --> 00:48:11.134 Or will there finally be a use for all those AI-ready processors? 00:48:12.154 --> 00:48:12.994 I suspect. 00:48:13.434 --> 00:48:16.354 Yeah, it seems like it'll probably be stuff like NPUs and, you know, 00:48:16.934 --> 00:48:20.474 various sorts of pieces of hardware. It may not be a full classical GPU necessarily. 00:48:21.114 --> 00:48:27.774 We forget just 10, 15 years ago how many things on our computers were not hardware 00:48:27.774 --> 00:48:29.634 accelerated and all ran on the CPU. 00:48:29.774 --> 00:48:30.134 No kidding. 00:48:30.134 --> 00:48:35.474 And we have spent 10, 15 years building dedicated chips and co-processors or 00:48:35.474 --> 00:48:36.854 offloading things to the GPU. 00:48:37.114 --> 00:48:40.894 And now when you get your, you know, your internet phone or a standard laptop 00:48:40.894 --> 00:48:46.534 or PC, they've got stuff dedicated for H.264 processing and decoding and encoding. 00:48:46.674 --> 00:48:51.574 Like they've got stuff on there for all kinds of dedicated subjobs that just get dispatched to them. 00:48:51.634 --> 00:48:56.014 And I imagine that trend would just continue because it's the most probably 00:48:56.014 --> 00:48:58.114 cost effective and power efficient way. Maybe. 00:48:58.414 --> 00:49:00.734 I'm not sure. But it seems to be the way things go. 00:49:01.954 --> 00:49:05.954 Whamgeek's here with 10,000 sats. Nice. 00:49:08.034 --> 00:49:10.634 And he's sending a little coolant for poor Brent's van. 00:49:11.174 --> 00:49:16.154 Yeah, I might need fuel, too, at this point. Again, see the bootleg, it is said. 00:49:16.234 --> 00:49:17.754 It's bad. It's bad. 00:49:18.714 --> 00:49:21.594 Magnolia Mayhem comes in with 6,300 sats. 00:49:21.814 --> 00:49:22.594 Oh! Oh! 00:49:26.798 --> 00:49:29.598 I don't have any fries to get back to, so here's a boost. 00:49:29.718 --> 00:49:34.158 Thank you, sir. Thank you, sir. Another bootleg reference. Bootleg is coming in thick today. 00:49:34.778 --> 00:49:37.798 Thanks for the live boost, guys. Really, between the baller boost and the live 00:49:37.798 --> 00:49:40.838 boost, really putting it over from kind of a standard affair episode, 00:49:41.118 --> 00:49:43.378 maybe even not doing so well, to a really strong episode. 00:49:43.518 --> 00:49:46.398 It just takes a few people, and it makes really all the difference. 00:49:46.578 --> 00:49:50.778 I do want to pull forward Moon and I boosted in 520 stats just because they're kind of having fun. 00:49:51.078 --> 00:49:54.258 You can tell timestamps on boosts after I made a comment that we added that 00:49:54.258 --> 00:49:56.118 picking up on the metadata when it's included. 00:49:56.538 --> 00:49:59.198 well, guess I have to boost 420 sats at minute 69. 00:49:59.758 --> 00:50:04.298 That would be a whole new level of combo and a way to maybe do a discount combo 00:50:04.298 --> 00:50:07.738 is your boost amount combined with the time code. 00:50:08.478 --> 00:50:11.638 But you'd have to give us a hint. We're not going to just notice it automatically. 00:50:11.838 --> 00:50:14.538 But that could be a neat combination of numbers and tricks. 00:50:14.758 --> 00:50:21.498 Well, I mean, it was 420 sats, so maybe it is at minute 69. I love this. 00:50:22.378 --> 00:50:25.018 You know, maybe you double it or something. Okay, so there you go. 00:50:25.018 --> 00:50:26.558 Thank you, everybody who support us. 00:50:26.678 --> 00:50:30.158 Of course, folks also just turned on the SAT streaming and their podcasting 00:50:30.158 --> 00:50:32.718 2.0 app that support it, and they streamed SATs as they listened. 00:50:32.798 --> 00:50:37.838 18 people did that stacking us 29,186 SATs this week. 00:50:37.958 --> 00:50:45.458 When you combine that with our boosters, we had a grand total of 342,015 Satoshis. 00:50:45.938 --> 00:50:50.238 Not too bad at all. Thank you, everybody who supported the show with a boost. 00:50:50.298 --> 00:50:53.478 It is a value for value podcast. We put it out there right now with very limited 00:50:53.478 --> 00:50:56.538 sponsorship. The community keeps us going with a signal of value. 00:50:56.678 --> 00:50:58.118 If you got value from the show, you send it back. 00:50:58.478 --> 00:51:01.418 One of the great things about the boost is an entirely free software stack. 00:51:01.578 --> 00:51:06.578 So we're doing it with no middleman, no PayPal who shut down our account or anything like that. 00:51:06.778 --> 00:51:09.458 Thank you, everybody who supports the show with a boost. And, 00:51:09.518 --> 00:51:13.058 of course, thank you to our members as well. We really do appreciate you. 00:51:15.238 --> 00:51:17.698 Well, we've got a few picks to cover before we get out of here, 00:51:17.738 --> 00:51:21.938 and BudsLink has been making its way around again, so we wanted to pull it forward. 00:51:22.218 --> 00:51:26.258 It's an application that provides battery monitoring and other features to control 00:51:26.258 --> 00:51:30.878 different Bluetooth-wearable audio devices, including AirPods, 00:51:31.378 --> 00:51:37.918 Beats, Sony audio wearables, Samsung Galaxy Buds, and the Nothing Buds as well. 00:51:38.078 --> 00:51:42.798 And it looks like it's got a pretty slick UI for it as well. Pretty good. 00:51:43.378 --> 00:51:46.038 Yeah, it's nice just because I think this is the kind of thing, 00:51:46.578 --> 00:51:50.998 if you are getting started or maybe using the Linux desktop a little more. 00:51:51.238 --> 00:51:53.058 You just want to have. Get your AMA-RG on your framework. 00:51:53.258 --> 00:51:53.738 Yeah, exactly. 00:51:53.838 --> 00:51:54.718 Coming from your MacBook. 00:51:54.878 --> 00:51:58.038 It feels well supported. It makes us feel like we know what we're doing. 00:51:58.038 --> 00:52:00.078 We're not stuck in, you know, 1995. 00:52:00.618 --> 00:52:06.618 I go back to, as well, it's a good trend that we keep seeing these boutique, well-built, 00:52:07.158 --> 00:52:11.598 very purpose-focused apps because that was something that the Mac got 10, 00:52:11.818 --> 00:52:16.178 20 years ago, and it started to slow down as the platform gets worse. 00:52:16.398 --> 00:52:19.298 And now isn't it interesting as those folks have come over to Linux and other 00:52:19.298 --> 00:52:23.018 people are now here to use these applications. We're starting to see that type of stuff show up. 00:52:23.238 --> 00:52:26.858 And it is available as a flat pack, which is nice. You can get it going really quick and easy. 00:52:27.358 --> 00:52:32.538 It communicates with devices that are using the L2 cap or RF comm sockets. 00:52:32.878 --> 00:52:37.318 RF comm. That sounds old. And it is GPL3 as well. Yeah. 00:52:39.046 --> 00:52:42.666 Now, Wes, I believe you found YAML Cast this week. 00:52:42.806 --> 00:52:47.986 YAML Cast is a really neat tool. It uses a YAML description of a terminal screencast 00:52:47.986 --> 00:52:50.406 and converts it into an animated Jeff. 00:52:50.706 --> 00:52:53.686 Yeah, okay. So under the hood, there's the excellent VHS tool, 00:52:53.866 --> 00:52:58.206 which is, as they say, your CLI home video recorder. 00:52:58.606 --> 00:53:02.086 But essentially, write terminal GIFs as code. 00:53:02.666 --> 00:53:05.466 So you want a GIF of, like, something happened. 00:53:05.626 --> 00:53:08.086 Sorry, animated Jeff of something happening in your terminal, 00:53:08.306 --> 00:53:11.266 right? Maybe to demo changes to your product or some new feature you're adding 00:53:11.266 --> 00:53:14.286 or a workflow you're doing or the cool AI thing you built, whatever. 00:53:14.486 --> 00:53:16.226 Oh, yeah. Definitely got to show that off. Everybody cares. 00:53:16.586 --> 00:53:20.226 Well, I send you guys. I send you guys a fair amount of MP4s and GIFs. 00:53:20.506 --> 00:53:22.366 I send it to you because you guys are the only people that care. 00:53:22.486 --> 00:53:23.406 Brent only barely cares. 00:53:23.606 --> 00:53:26.406 Yeah, true, true. Okay, so great tool. 00:53:26.546 --> 00:53:29.626 So you kind of write it out, but they have this custom tape format, 00:53:29.666 --> 00:53:31.526 they call it, which is cute, and it's part of the name, right? 00:53:31.666 --> 00:53:34.506 But it's just like this custom sort of ad hoc format for them. 00:53:35.866 --> 00:53:39.006 Maybe you want to be able to use something more standard. So this is just sort 00:53:39.006 --> 00:53:41.166 of a YAML wrapper that's able to make... 00:53:41.166 --> 00:53:42.146 It takes that .tape. 00:53:42.366 --> 00:53:46.226 Well, no, it lets you write YAML, and then it turns it into the .tape and then 00:53:46.226 --> 00:53:49.846 uses VHS to render it. So you can just go straight from YAML to... 00:53:49.846 --> 00:53:51.026 No, I'm following you totally. 00:53:51.106 --> 00:53:53.226 This is not niche at all, guys. Not niche at all. 00:53:53.266 --> 00:53:55.386 And so it's VHS that produces the Jeff. 00:53:55.546 --> 00:53:55.986 That's correct. 00:53:56.166 --> 00:53:59.046 Oh, my God. Okay, great. Thank you, Wes. What a great find. 00:54:00.146 --> 00:54:03.766 And it sort of starts making sense if you go look at a .tape file, and then you look at... 00:54:03.766 --> 00:54:06.726 I mean, we know what a YAML file looks, but if you look at the example .yaml 00:54:06.726 --> 00:54:09.166 here in the repo, So you've got to see, like, if you just want to be able to 00:54:09.166 --> 00:54:11.946 list, it looks a lot more like something you'd see in CI, which is like a list 00:54:11.946 --> 00:54:15.506 of bash commands or whatever you're running in YAML that you're kind of used 00:54:15.506 --> 00:54:18.586 to reading rather than having to maybe adapt to an arbitrary format. 00:54:19.006 --> 00:54:21.866 I'm looking forward to seeing a screencast from you soon. You know, 00:54:22.166 --> 00:54:23.126 I'm looking forward to it. 00:54:25.413 --> 00:54:30.093 So this next pick is pretty interesting. A entrepreneuring developer has managed 00:54:30.093 --> 00:54:34.293 to combine Wine staging with a series of patches and DLL files that have been 00:54:34.293 --> 00:54:41.693 modified to get a reproducible recipe for running Adobe Lightroom Creative Cloud on Linux. 00:54:42.153 --> 00:54:45.293 You get the full Creative Cloud desktop app working under Wine. 00:54:45.453 --> 00:54:49.993 You can sign into Creative Cloud. You can get cloud-synced photo library photos. 00:54:50.793 --> 00:54:54.013 there are some dialogues that don't work but the remove, heal tools, 00:54:54.133 --> 00:54:57.133 brush, mask that type of stuff is working there's a couple things that still 00:54:57.133 --> 00:55:02.433 aren't totally sorted if you've got a 64-bit Linux distro with Wine 11.8 staging or newer, 00:55:03.213 --> 00:55:07.373 NVIDIA, AMD or Intel GPU as long as you've got Vulkan drivers working and a 00:55:07.373 --> 00:55:08.673 valid Creative Cloud subscription, 00:55:09.633 --> 00:55:15.313 and about 10 gigs of free you can actually get Lightroom Creative Cloud now working, 00:55:16.387 --> 00:55:18.147 on Linux. Pretty neat. 00:55:18.347 --> 00:55:19.227 This is so wild. 00:55:19.447 --> 00:55:23.007 The state of wine these days is just something else. 00:55:23.667 --> 00:55:27.767 The Adobe tools coming, I mean, the next unlock is going to be Photoshop and 00:55:27.767 --> 00:55:32.187 then Premiere and then eventually After Effects. And once we get to After Effects... 00:55:32.187 --> 00:55:36.447 What are the main things we hear about people not being able to move to Linux? 00:55:36.607 --> 00:55:38.807 One was gaming, solved, right? For the most part. 00:55:39.547 --> 00:55:42.887 Second was Adobe tools. Well, today, that sounds like that's solved. 00:55:42.967 --> 00:55:46.327 So we're running out of reasons. People can't just use Linux right now. 00:55:46.327 --> 00:55:49.427 Unlock my mom has been using 00:55:49.427 --> 00:55:52.267 photoshop since 1.0 she got access to the beta i 00:55:52.267 --> 00:55:54.947 mean she was she was involved in a seattle graphics arts program when they 00:55:54.947 --> 00:55:57.627 called using photoshop and things like that 00:55:57.627 --> 00:56:02.727 they called it graphic arts yeah yeah and um our seattle institute of art had 00:56:02.727 --> 00:56:05.267 a program and they had a partnership with adobe and all of that that she was 00:56:05.267 --> 00:56:08.267 involved with so to say that she's been using photoshop for a little while is 00:56:08.267 --> 00:56:10.607 she's been using photoshop for as long as any human that doesn't work at adobe 00:56:10.607 --> 00:56:16.167 can possibly use photoshop and her entire career pipeline is around the built around. 00:56:16.167 --> 00:56:16.867 Those tools yeah. 00:56:16.867 --> 00:56:21.067 So she doesn't she continues year after year to have she has to buy a new mac 00:56:21.067 --> 00:56:24.247 and she eventually gets forced because of the deprecation of the os and the 00:56:24.247 --> 00:56:28.807 updates and so for her this would be such a massive massive unlock if i could 00:56:28.807 --> 00:56:31.587 move her to linux then all she has to maintain is a creative cloud subscription. 00:56:31.587 --> 00:56:35.127 Yes i guess apple doesn't really offer anything like well forever do they no. 00:56:35.127 --> 00:56:40.227 And the thing that strikes me is if if an individual with cloud code can do 00:56:40.227 --> 00:56:44.787 this then what's stopping adobe from doing this directly and just kind of going 00:56:44.787 --> 00:56:49.547 the valve route creating an adobe proton style compatibility layer, 00:56:50.227 --> 00:56:53.187 that then they just design their applications to run on top of yeah, 00:56:55.182 --> 00:56:57.922 We'll get on at Adobe. Like, let's start spending some money on this. 00:56:58.162 --> 00:57:01.002 It's also kind of wild, just another reminder of how much at this point Linux 00:57:01.002 --> 00:57:02.382 is really becoming a Windows runtime. 00:57:03.062 --> 00:57:07.602 Yeah. Yeah, really. Which is, I think, the ultimate future of Windows, inevitably. 00:57:07.902 --> 00:57:09.502 If only Microsoft would realize it. 00:57:09.682 --> 00:57:11.742 Yeah, they will one day, but it's going to take them a while. 00:57:12.862 --> 00:57:15.342 And, you know, I'm never going to use this. We're not going to use this. 00:57:15.462 --> 00:57:18.282 But it just seemed like a milestone to get a current Creative Cloud product, 00:57:18.502 --> 00:57:21.302 something like Lightroom, running on Linux. 00:57:21.602 --> 00:57:23.882 Go see what you can port to Linux today. Well, not important, 00:57:24.022 --> 00:57:25.602 but, you know, hack together in mind today. 00:57:25.882 --> 00:57:29.822 Yeah, tell us. We want to know. All right, that is everything. 00:57:30.082 --> 00:57:32.562 Links to what we talked about will be in the show notes, which you can find 00:57:32.562 --> 00:57:37.282 at linuxunplugged.com slash 667 or, of course, over at jupiterbroadcasting.com. 00:57:37.762 --> 00:57:42.582 Also, I want to encourage you to make it a special event. Make it a Tuesday on a Sunday. 00:57:42.962 --> 00:57:45.762 Join us Sundays at 10 a.m. Pacific, 1 p.m. Eastern. 00:57:45.922 --> 00:57:49.502 See you next week. Same bad time, same bad station. 00:57:49.702 --> 00:57:52.822 Wes Payne, you want to tell them about some pro tips? Metadata, 00:57:52.982 --> 00:57:54.162 things like that, transcripts. 00:57:54.282 --> 00:57:58.762 Oh, yeah. Well, we've stuffed a whole bunch of extra features into our RSS feed. 00:57:59.022 --> 00:58:02.222 So maybe just go look at it because it's nice to look at on its own. 00:58:02.262 --> 00:58:06.142 Can I tell you, if we were like corporate owned, we'd be saying it's the agentic ready podcast. 00:58:06.242 --> 00:58:06.782 That's right. It sure is. 00:58:06.782 --> 00:58:10.982 Because our chapters are in JSON. Our transcripts are plain text that any agent can ingest. 00:58:11.102 --> 00:58:12.542 Point your MCPs our way. 00:58:12.702 --> 00:58:16.202 Our podcast is more agentic ready than your buddy's podcast. That's for sure. 00:58:16.442 --> 00:58:18.882 Cloud JSON chapters. That's cloud native chapters. 00:58:18.882 --> 00:58:22.122 We'll never do that again. All right. Thank you so much for tuning in this week's episode. 00:58:22.122 --> 00:58:23.022 Hybrid Cloud Transcripts. 00:58:23.102 --> 00:58:28.462 Oh, yeah, thank you. We'll see you right back here next Tuesday. As in Sunday.