Chris: Hello, friends, and welcome back to your weekly Linux talk show. My name is Chris.
Wes: My name is Wes.
Brent: And my name is Brent.
Chris: Hello, gentlemen. Well, coming up on the show today, the three major themes
Chris: from Red Hat Summit that we think you'll care about the most.
Chris: Then we'll round the show out with some great boos, some picks, and a lot more.
Chris: So before we get to all of that, and it is a dense episode, let's say time-appropriate
Chris: greetings to our virtual lug. Hello, mumble room.
Chris: Hello. And hello up there in quiet
Chris: listening. Hello, everybody in the live matrix room and on the stream.
Chris: It is so nice to have you. And good morning to our friends over at Defined Networking.
Chris: Go to defined.net slash unplugged and meet Managed Nebula from Defined Networking.
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Chris: You can self-host, you can go look at it right now.
Chris: Actually, one of the great things about nebula is the issues are out in the open.
Wes: The prs.
Chris: Are out in the open.
Wes: And it's kind of stupid easy to try especially i mean it's just written in go
Wes: you can just download a binary that basically runs anywhere all the way to like
Wes: you know using containers or nix os or whatever you want to orchestrate it or a managed product.
Chris: Make a site car.
Wes: Do it yeah.
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Chris: And I think you'll be hearing more about just how freaking fast Nebula really is. It's amazing.
Chris: Check it out. Defined.net slash Unplugged. Big thank you to Defined Networking
Chris: for supporting the Unplugged program.
Brent: Well, based on last week's adventures with a new distro, let's call it,
Brent: where I didn't quite do as well, I dove into Red Hat Summit,
Brent: which is happening this week.
Brent: Red Hat Summit 2026 is happening in Hotlanta, Georgia.
Brent: And, well, we grabbed a whole bunch of clips, especially on day one,
Brent: which was rather high level.
Brent: But useful to understand where Red Hats, well, where their head is at.
Brent: And before they started talking about AI, as everyone does, they wanted to make it clear they see you.
Clips: Welcome to Red Hat Summit 2026.
Clips: Please welcome Red Hat President and Chief Executive Officer, Matt Hicks.
Clips: Good morning. Look at this crowd.
Clips: Every one of you is responsible for something that cannot break,
Clips: cannot go down, cannot be wrong.
Clips: Whether it's millions of financial transactions being processed every hour,
Clips: or healthcare networks that physicians depend on for life-affecting decisions,
Clips: or the millions of consumers served by telecommunications networks,
Clips: that's just a normal week for the people in this room.
Clips: And here's what I think about a lot. The outcomes get all the attention.
Clips: The deployment measures, the SLAs, the uptime measurements.
Clips: What doesn't get seen is the craft behind them that makes it possible.
Clips: The person that designed the architecture from scratch.
Clips: the person that migrated hundreds
Clips: of virtual machines invisibly to the business, the person that at 2 a.m.
Clips: in the morning figures out the cause of an outage that wasn't in the runbook.
Clips: That takes real expertise, real creativity, and yet most of the world never sees it.
Clips: I see it. And I think it's important to address that before we talk about anything else today.
Chris: I think Red Hat has been reading the room. And they realize the importance of
Chris: getting out in front of this and saying, it's really about you.
Chris: Everything we're going to do today, it's AI, but it's about you.
Wes: Yeah, this is targeted at humans, at the folks that are actually coming here,
Wes: or at least that are continuing to motivate their bosses to pay our bills.
Chris: But Brent, you get the sense, like, if this is how they're starting,
Chris: because that was like the start. If this is how they're starting,
Chris: they're going in hard, I would imagine.
Brent: Yeah, on the scene, I've been basically just hearing them talking about how
Brent: this transition to AI is one of the major defining moments in the tech industry.
Clips: What is the foundation that lets me compete at the speed that my business needs
Clips: while not breaking what absolutely cannot be broken?
Clips: My business. And I've seen this before, twice actually, both times in ways that
Clips: fundamentally reshaped the industry.
Clips: The first time was in the shift from proprietary hardware and proprietary operating
Clips: systems to open infrastructure.
Clips: To that question, the what do I build on question, the answer turned out to be Linux.
Clips: Red Hat brought Linux to the enterprise with Red Hat Enterprise Linux,
Clips: and RHEL became a standard practically every industry.
Clips: Everything that followed was built on Linux.
Clips: Cloud, IoT, mobile. Think about today.
Clips: Every AI model, every AI agent runs on Linux.
Clips: That foundation that we built together is now the reality of what everything
Clips: we depend on today is running on.
Clips: Now, the second time this came up was in the shift to cloud native,
Clips: so containers, Kubernetes, microservices.
Clips: Now, at Red Hat, we didn't invent Docker. We didn't invent Kubernetes.
Clips: We brought Kubernetes to the enterprise through OpenShift, and now that is a
Clips: standard that thousands of customers depend on for their hybrid cloud.
Clips: Now, we are at the third inflection point right now with AI,
Clips: and Red Hat will bring AI to the enterprise to make that an open standard.
Clips: And I think the pattern holds from the last two.
Clips: The organizations that will have the most success in this environment,
Clips: they are not necessarily going to be the ones that spin the most or the ones that move the fastest.
Clips: They will be the ones that build on the right foundations.
Clips: Virtual machines, containers, AI agents, they are not competing with each other. They are converging.
Clips: And the answer to this is not going to be one cloud or one vendor or one model.
Clips: It will be the right platform with a broad ecosystem that supports it.
Clips: And I'm biased, but I think the organizations that will have the most success
Clips: will pick a platform with an open foundation below it.
Brent: And as you can imagine, he mentioned the future of work being agentic there,
Brent: which means the kind of work we're going to be doing is going to change.
Clips: Here is what we learned about the process, the actual work. And I want to be direct on this.
Clips: To these software developers in the room, You are not getting replaced by AI,
Clips: but where you spend your time and energy will drastically change.
Clips: Figuring out how to build and shape evaluations for these AI-created systems.
Clips: Figuring out how to build the next generation of continuous integration systems
Clips: in a world where anyone can contribute.
Clips: Figuring out how to create the next generation testing frameworks that maintain some stability.
Clips: The humans that build the rails that AI runs on, that is where your craft is going.
Clips: To the managers in the room, you are about to be tested on your ability to delegate.
Clips: Now, AI agents, they are going to expand the capabilities and capacity of your team.
Clips: In some cases, drastically.
Clips: But they're also going to pressure test every process that you have.
Clips: And in your case, as a manager, they will pressure test your ability to understand the technology,
Clips: truly understand your processes, and be able to decompose complicated work to
Clips: be able to delegate to both humans and agents.
Clips: Your ability to do this will largely define how well you can lead in this environment.
Brent: The overall message was pretty clear in the room that even if it makes you anxious,
Brent: as it does many of us, or gets you excited, Red Hat says AI is not optional.
Clips: AI isn't optional at this point.
Clips: Whether it brings you energy or whether it creates real uncertainty.
Clips: And I think for many of us, it is a combination, a mixture of both. it can't be ignored.
Clips: But there also isn't a single path. Some of you might be ready to run AI or are in production.
Clips: Some of you might be just trying to figure out what is hype and what is reality at this point.
Clips: And some of you might be just trying to get your infrastructure in order to
Clips: even make this a reality.
Clips: All of that is legitimate. What I would caution against are the extremes.
Clips: Either moving so slow that when you start, you can never catch up,
Clips: or moving so fast that you build on a foundation that you cannot address what comes next.
Clips: Because I promise you, something will come next in this environment.
Clips: So here's what I can promise you. Everything you're going to hear about at Summit,
Clips: is what Red Hat is actually doing.
Clips: Will not be theory.
Clips: Won't be roadmap slides. This will be production experience.
Chris: All right, so that I'd say is theme one. And I noticed that Red Hat was leaning
Chris: pretty hard on stuff that they've implemented.
Chris: They talked a lot about how 85% of their internal knowledge workload bases on self-hosted models.
Wes: Yeah, that was an interesting step.
Chris: Yeah, so that's nice to see. And they've been really working to optimize smaller
Chris: models to make them practical.
Wes: And we know they've been heavily involved with VLLM, which is like the major
Wes: way that a lot of these models are served both commercially and if you're going
Wes: to go about doing it with like real powerful GPUs for your own internal use.
Chris: Yeah, they definitely are.
Wes: And LLMD on top of that.
Chris: They're very proud of being, you know, the core, one of the top contributors,
Chris: the top contributor to VLM and the partnership there. Okay, so that's theme one.
Chris: Theme two, we've got to talk about, Brent. RHEL forever.
Brent: RHEL forever. On day two, we got the news that Red Hat Enterprise Linux was
Brent: turning into forever distro with RHEL forever.
Clips: I need to run that version of RHEL forever without a hint of sarcasm.
Clips: And for that, we're announcing Red Hat Enterprise Linux long-life add-on.
Clips: A yearly subscription with indefinite support once you reach the end of extended support.
Clips: Critical security fixes, bug resolutions, and more for as long as you need them.
Clips: When you have a system that cannot change, you need support that will not end.
Clips: But Red Hat's support for Linux is only about stability. Innovation is changing
Clips: the demands of Linux faster than ever.
Chris: To me, this is kind of a remarkable announcement.
Brent: Yeah.
Chris: The engineering task.
Brent: There's something to be said for LTS, which is, you know, I've been around for
Brent: a while, long-term support, but this is literally indefinite.
Brent: That word really stuck out to me. How in the world do you do that?
Wes: I do think it's important to recognize that they do have some internal guardrails.
Wes: It's at Red Hat's discretion. They include that a lot.
Chris: Yes.
Brent: Smart.
Wes: Yeah. And so I do think there's an aspect of some long-term bets on maybe how
Wes: they're able to keep accomplishing this.
Wes: But I also wonder if there isn't a connection to what we're going to talk about
Wes: next in terms of new offerings they'll be able to push to a lot of their current clients.
Wes: And so sort of an expectation around maybe this is more about keeping clients
Wes: and keeping certain workloads there as opposed to counting on that really to
Wes: be a growing industry, but more of a like, let's lock this in.
Chris: Yeah. Yeah, I can see that. So you touched on something there.
Chris: Do you think, so let's look at the alternative. So Canonical offers 15 years
Chris: contractually on Ubuntu Pro Legacy.
Chris: SUSE does 16 years for core components. Red Hat, indefinite,
Chris: is a lot longer than any of those.
Chris: Although I'd say Canonical's scope is a lot broader because under Canonical's
Chris: 15 years, it's all 36,000 packages in the main archive.
Wes: Right, this is continued access to critical software security and bug fixes. Yeah.
Chris: Where the Red Hat version, like you implied there, is going to be a lot narrower
Chris: to which we don't even know the degree of that scope yet. Or the pricing.
Wes: You do have to wonder, though, like you're saying, there has been some developments
Wes: with other folks in the space bumping up timelines.
Wes: So maybe this is a like, you don't, you know, if you're worried about that,
Wes: we are going to let you keep paying and we will let you keep running this.
Chris: They even said at one point 30 years.
Brent: Wow. But even just Canonical's offering at 15 years was just a huge jump from
Brent: what they were doing a couple of years ago.
Brent: what were you know what was the state of linux 15 years ago chris when uh oh
Brent: my gosh right if you picture it that way it's like wow well 15 years.
Wes: I wonder if there's a bet there too in terms of like because i think some of
Wes: this starts with six ah i wonder if there's like a baseline they think they've
Wes: achieved in terms of like how much will change maybe you have enough of the
Wes: primitives enough se linux enough maybe basic container tech in there but.
Chris: Even on a say Let's just say it's not 30 years.
Chris: Let's say it's a 20-year. First, it's a bet the Red Hat will be there that long,
Chris: but they plan to be here indefinitely apparently.
Chris: But at 20 years, it just becomes exponentially harder to take a modern-day security
Chris: fix and apply it to something like the 6-series kernel when we could be on a
Chris: 10-series kernel by then or something like that.
Chris: I mean, they must be making a bet that there's going to be some kind of vibe
Chris: coded unlock in the next five years that makes this more doable because the
Chris: problem only gets harder as time marches on. What are your thoughts?
Wes: I think that comes into play, I think especially maybe in sort of countering
Wes: perhaps an expected increase in things that you need to address, right?
Wes: We've seen – we don't know if it will continue, but we've seen – it's been a
Wes: very busy month in Linux security vulnerability.
Chris: Pause there for a second, buddy. That's a huge point. They are making this commitment
Chris: as the CVE are exponentially going up, and they're like zero-daying them just to get attention.
Chris: And they're like, yep, indefinite support at the beginning of this curve.
Wes: So that's where I think it also maybe reflects. So I think maybe they think,
Wes: you know, we will also have tools to help make this process more sustainable
Wes: and be more highly automatable to address that and, you know,
Wes: tamp down some of the growth on that curve.
Wes: And then maybe also some confidence in their existing execution and team and
Wes: sort of security profile.
Wes: Because as we have seen, there's been a lot of vulnerabilities that if you are
Wes: running like a full SC Linux stuff and kind of doing it the Red Hat way,
Wes: you're in a much better position than if you're just doing nothing.
Brent: It's true.
Wes: So I think they have a lot of the bones in place. And then maybe because as
Wes: we've seen, they are kind of whole hog going forward to use AI tooling.
Wes: Maybe they've already seen some gains in that regard.
Chris: Right. And the plan here is you go through all the standard lifecycle,
Chris: then the extended lifecycle, then the premium extended lifecycle, and then indefinite.
Chris: And so you have to also imagine the pricing escalates with each one of those tiers.
Wes: Right. And so that's, I think, where the discretion and the like how much you
Wes: extract sort of comes in in terms of they retain the option to make this worth
Wes: their while if they need to.
Chris: I just want to take a moment and thank our members. We would normally have an
Chris: ad right here. We should have had an ad right here since the beginning of the year.
Chris: And since then, our members have been keeping us on the road.
Chris: LinuxUnplugged.com slash membership for this here program or Jupiter.party for all the shows.
Chris: Either way, you'll get access to the bootleg or the no ads version,
Chris: both of which are fantastic and well-loved by the members who sign up.
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Chris: Thank you, everybody who supports us with a membership. Keeping us going.
Brent: Also, during day two's keynote, we got the Hummingbird announcement.
Brent: They start by saying, from the same factory that creates RHEL-hardened images,
Brent: is how they will create Hummingbird.
Clips: Of a new builder-focused Linux distribution, Fedora Hummingbird Linux,
Clips: a rolling release OS that pushes updates and fixes as quickly as the upstream
Clips: Linux community produces them.
Clips: So it's built on the same automated infrastructure as Red Hat Hard Images,
Clips: And because of that, Fedora Hummingbird Linux will provide languages,
Clips: runtimes, databases, and tools, also free of non-CVEs.
Clips: This allows AI agents to choose Fedora Hummingbird Linux as the OS to experiment with.
Clips: Developers building AI systems don't have waiting or slow in their vocabulary.
Clips: Definitely exciting for developers, somewhat terrifying for enterprise IT admins and auditors.
Clips: So how do you give developers the fast roads that they want and IT teams the
Clips: guardrails that they need?
Chris: I guess I'm struck by a couple of things with Hummingbird, and I want to start with this.
Chris: How do you have a zero CVE Linux distribution?
Wes: Yeah, so it's less of a claim forever, but the point is really about process,
Wes: which is it's very much an automation sort of CI, CD first thing.
Wes: In this case, it's built on Conflux and Tecton and some of the existing infrastructure
Wes: that Red Hat has been working on.
Wes: But the idea is, you know, you have a minimal package set or total software
Wes: set inside the image and you build it frequently often.
Wes: And as part of that, you use tools like SIFT and Gripe to actually get reports,
Wes: right? You can build SBOMs.
Wes: You can take a look at, like, what is the actual security output from these tools.
Wes: And so then as part of your build process, you can just only emit images when,
Wes: at least at the time of build, those reports are clean.
Chris: And you can do it quickly.
Wes: Yes.
Chris: You can do it frequently. I see.
Wes: Yeah. And then you can even tie it into upstream vulnerability reports,
Wes: right? So, like, if a vulnerability is patched upstream, you can,
Wes: the pipeline will be looking for that, rebuild, test it, and then push an updated image.
Chris: This, to me, sort of smells like they're going after chain guards territory.
Wes: Yeah, very similar.
Chris: Hmm.
Chris: That's interesting. Now ChainGuard is a direct competitor with Red Hat.
Wes: And we've seen as sort of there has been more pressure in terms of like compliance
Wes: and audits on like what is the software that you're running.
Wes: That's put more pressure on. I mean, once you start producing that information, you see that like,
Wes: oh, we are running a bunch of stuff in these images that maybe never even needs
Wes: to be there at runtime, but just sort of ends up because it has you,
Wes: you know, if you just use standard sort of base images, you kind of have to strip that stuff out.
Wes: And these are built the other way, where they can take this base and provide
Wes: you with very lean application-focused images just to provide NGINX or Postgres or.
Chris: Vendor-required RHEL standard images.
Chris: And I think that's the key competing differentiator that Red Hat has going for
Chris: them versus Chain Guard is Chain Guard is using their own custom distro,
Chris: kind of Alpine style APK formats and all of that, where this is going to be
Chris: a Fedora, you know, Red Hat base.
Chris: And so you could see where this turns into an enterprise product that you could
Chris: run Oracle database on, and you're technically running it on a Red Hat base,
Chris: but you get the advantages of whatever the host operating system is can have,
Chris: quote unquote, zero CVEs or whatever.
Wes: What is kind of neat about that from this perspective is it is kind of classically
Wes: more of an enterprise offering, right?
Wes: And like Red Hat does have Red Hat hardened images and that kind of stuff that they offer at that.
Wes: But this is more on the open side. This is something that can be given to anyone
Wes: who's happy to run stuff built from Fedora Rawhide, which that's us, right?
Chris: Yeah, and you could even boot it with a base image, right? Like,
Chris: I don't believe Chain Guard actually has a bootable Linux distro.
Wes: Right, so this also gets to take advantage of all the very cool work happening with Bootsy.
Chris: Yeah.
Wes: That's neat.
Chris: However, there has been some community backlash. In fact, the discourse thread
Chris: that we'll link to in the show notes is still rolling.
Chris: And there's a certain pattern to it. It seems people are feeling like this is
Chris: sent off stream all over again.
Chris: There was a Red Hat business decision that was pre-announced as a Fedora deliverable
Chris: with kind of a fig leaf community consultation.
Chris: That's a quote from one of their members.
Wes: Yeah, there's feelings kind of like there was some engagement around.
Wes: Maybe we want to explore bringing this into Fedora.
Chris: Hey, we're thinking about this.
Wes: And then sort of it gets announced on stage, and it's like a done deal, and it's happening.
Chris: Two weeks later, Fedora's doing this new thing. And they're like,
Chris: wait, Fedora's doing what? We had no idea.
Chris: And some of the deliverables require some maybe different staffing.
Chris: They require some discussion here.
Chris: And, you know, Red Hat wanted a big, splashy announcement for Summit.
Chris: And Fedora wants to do things the most open way, following their community guidelines
Chris: and all of that. And the two are sometimes...
Chris: not compatible. And I thought some of the key quotes put it pretty well.
Chris: One was, maybe you should read it. Wes, you read it.
Wes: Wow. Frankly, that article sounds hostile to me. It's basically claiming to be Fedora Linux.
Wes: Then again, that it is not, but that it is as secure as opposed to everything
Wes: else with curated kernel config and elaborate engineering framework,
Wes: a whole blank load of sales pitch. So what is it? Fedora or not Fedora?
Wes: There might even be some good ideas in there, but given how this started and
Wes: how it is communicated, I can put zero trust in this.
Chris: Yeah. Matthew Miller, former project leader, chimed in, quote,
Chris: as a former project leader, I know that there's always a tension between transparency
Chris: and Red Hat's business and marketing desire to have a splashy,
Chris: exciting announcement at Summit.
Chris: Once that's settled down, the real work can start.
Wes: It is a good perspective in that this is not the first time there's been some
Wes: version of this in terms of a clash between a strong community distro that is
Wes: very much a part and often funded by a proprietary business that has its own needs and timelines.
Chris: Yeah. And then there's this adjacent announcement. It's a separate announcement,
Chris: but it's kind of feeling in the same groove, is a Fedora AI developer desktop.
Chris: And Fedora is considering an initiative that they might call the Fedora AI developer
Chris: desktop that would be a spin of the Atomic desktop with some AI tooling built in.
Chris: The goal here, they say, is to make an AI development on Fedora less painful
Chris: by introducing better tooling and packaging. It also aims to offer a smoother
Chris: experience for users running AI applications and dedicated space for developers
Chris: to get their work in front of people who might actually use it.
Chris: So the proposal was submitted at the end of March. It was voted yes unanimously.
Chris: And then one council member retracted their vote and changed their vote to negative
Chris: one. The council requires full consensus.
Chris: And once you no longer have full consensus, it has to go to the community for
Chris: discussion. And boy, has it.
Brent: Boy, has it. As it should, I would imagine. This is a large topic.
Chris: Yeah. Where do we even start with this? Because the reaction to this is quite bad.
Chris: The Fedora community is concerned with what has been promised as a deliverable.
Chris: Things like an LTS kernel.
Chris: The current Fedora kernel maintainer doesn't really even have the time to maintain
Chris: the kernel Fedora, let alone take on an LTS project, which is sort of antithetical
Chris: to Fedora in the first part.
Wes: Yeah i think the like it there is some
Wes: interest in it and there's some discussion of maybe
Wes: could this be like a like a spin or a remake like
Wes: could there be a different form of like how it fits yeah uh-huh um
Wes: but it does come in kind of clash with
Wes: both uh policies and philosophies perhaps
Wes: in terms of like do we even allow shipping you know
Wes: these out-of-tree kernel modules um but then
Wes: also just with existing constraints in terms of like you know fedora's kind
Wes: of just been shipping this one kernel as to simplify things like they ship a
Wes: very clean kernel it's very like a simple process and there's not a lot of actual
Wes: human infrastructure right now powering that process and so if you make that
Wes: process complicated and suddenly you have more outputs that could really break things.
Chris: I think there's also an issue here where now they have this ability to ship
Chris: some of the invidious stuff but that would technically taint the kernel which
Chris: fedor classically i mean this is one of the reasons linus likes to use it as a clean kernel.
Wes: Buddy of the show neil gampa has been involved in the discussion
Wes: kind of brings up that there's value to the reputation in the kernel and fedora
Wes: often works with stuff like they work with the upstream butterfs developers
Wes: and the upstream kernel developers really like knowing that fedora ships this
Wes: really clean kernel and so when they get reports from those systems they can
Wes: trust them and use them for debugging so.
Chris: There's also a couple of uncomfortable tensions here and brent i don't know
Chris: i don't if you have any thoughts feel free to to,
Chris: does Fedora need to respond to this moment? One of the arguments that I've seen
Chris: made is that there's really no evidence that people are passing over Fedora
Chris: because they don't have an AI spin right now.
Chris: And I wonder, is that a valid argument?
Chris: And then the second part to that, when I think about it, outside of Red Hat
Chris: native shops and Red Hat themselves, I am unaware of any production agentic
Chris: loads that are being deployed on Fedora.
Chris: It's just not really happening much at scale outside of Red Hat specific shop.
Chris: So, Brent, I wonder, is this a moment?
Chris: Does the distro need to have an answer for AI tools and people that want to
Chris: get started with AI quickly? Or is that...
Chris: Not their concern?
Brent: Hmm. Well, I mean, in our episode about Ubuntu recently, we heard that they're
Brent: making strides to make this easier.
Brent: So one could argue that any distribution that wants to stay relevant will at
Brent: least have to look at this as a possibility for the future of how computers will be used.
Brent: I mean, that's one of the arguments we've heard.
Chris: I would say anyone who's ever argued that you should use Discord to reach the
Chris: youngs should also be in favor of this.
Chris: Because this would be one of the arguments. If you want to reach the youngs,
Chris: you need to be where the youngs are at.
Brent: 100%.
Chris: And that's the argument for people to throw away their open source hard line
Chris: when it comes to chat platforms and use Discord.
Chris: So it would be interesting to see some of those Discord stands try to argue against this.
Brent: But I think the bigger question that the community is bringing up here is whether
Brent: Fedora is the right place to do this.
Chris: Yeah.
Brent: And I think overwhelmingly we're seeing that maybe that answer is no.
Brent: So is Red Hat pushing this in the wrong place, perhaps?
Wes: I don't know, because I think if you look at some of the comments by Jeff Spolita, that there's...
Wes: I think he's quite eloquently sort of expressed this, what Chris was saying,
Wes: in terms of like... He worries a lot about how do you attract the people who
Wes: he was when he joined Fedora.
Wes: And that those folks are just using, to some degree, lesser and more,
Wes: these tools, because these tools are kind of just normal as they learn how to interface.
Chris: They're not on IRC chat rooms anymore. Right.
Wes: And so...
Wes: And then it kind of comes also to an issue we've discussed on the show before,
Wes: which is if the folks involved in the discussion do value the philosophies and
Wes: attitudes and ethics of Fedora and its community, if they're not in the discussion
Wes: with these tools, then those values really don't get representation.
Wes: And so maybe there's value to folks in whatever final form it takes that the
Wes: folks in Fedora can bring to this so that if these tools are staying around
Wes: and it seems like they are, how do we do that in a way that matches what the folks here want?
Brent: Like what's the Fedora implementation of these ideas? I like that.
Chris: And when the Fedora implements something, does that philosophy sometimes carry
Chris: through to some of the users and how they use the technology and the choices
Chris: they make? And if it does, then Fedora probably does want to be there.
Chris: So my thoughts on this are complicated because a couple of things jumped out at me.
Chris: reading through this thread. And I do think maybe a Fedora LTS kernel would
Chris: be kind of a cool idea. I may actually end up, you know, reconcerting Fedora for a few other tasks.
Wes: But I think the Bluefin folks, you blue folks have a LTS kernel.
Chris: But I think if you step back and we're just going to try to steel man this and
Chris: you put a business hat on and pretend like you're a CEO or some executive at
Chris: Red Hat and you try to look at the macro picture,
Chris: I wonder if these types of discussions won't bring in the beginning of the end
Chris: of a traditional distribution model like this free software project attached
Chris: to a large corporate sponsor. Because think about it this way.
Chris: Imagine you're a massive enterprise tech company and you've decided you must
Chris: be a dominant leader in the gold rush.
Chris: This is their thinking. So you have to cook up a top to bottom strategy because
Chris: you have to be a dominant platform to survive.
Chris: So at the top, you got like high level enterprise contracts worth millions,
Chris: at the bottom you have the picks and shovels layer, the free open source infrastructure
Chris: that feeds the whole pipeline.
Chris: There's a problem. You don't actually own the shovel makers.
Chris: The open source community runs the shovel factory.
Chris: So to execute your multi-million dollar master plan that the survival of your
Chris: company depends on, you need that shovel factory to start churning out a brand new type of AI tool.
Chris: You literally cannot succeed without them. But the folks running the factory...
Chris: They've got questions, and they have valid concerns about licensing,
Chris: standards, and some of them are really burning out, and they can't take on more work.
Chris: And they want to sit down, they want to slow down, and they want to discuss
Chris: the details, mostly because they suspect there might be a corporate master plan
Chris: at play, and they'd like to know more.
Chris: But you've got to imagine in the corporate boardroom, this community discussion,
Chris: it's going to come across.
Wes: You can imagine it being seen as a cost, right?
Chris: Yeah, it's slowing things down, and there's no time to spare.
Wes: It's an externality we have to manage that we don't fully control.
Chris: And they're going to be thinking, right or wrong, they're going to be thinking,
Chris: well, we're in the age of AI.
Chris: Somebody could just vibe code a replacement for something that we offer.
Chris: A competitor can come along and start building and shipping at light speed. We have got to move.
Chris: And maybe somebody like a chain guard or somebody is out there eating market
Chris: share and you're still negotiating with the factory workers on a discussion forum.
Chris: You have to wonder if that's when the people in that same boardroom have a realization
Chris: that what if we just bypass the factory entirely?
Chris: I mean, they're already building these hardened images and these Fedora hummingbird
Chris: hardening images on their own through their own pipeline.
Chris: So why wouldn't they start thinking maybe we can just replace the traditional
Chris: distribution factory with, you know, Claude 5-0 or whatever it's going to be
Chris: and they'll just build it themselves?
Chris: So I think there's not only this tension of like, we don't have the capacity
Chris: or the resources and we have questions, but then there's also this inevitability
Chris: that debate about drivers and tainting and all of this just slows the process down.
Chris: And it just deepens that tension. And eventually some of these,
Chris: I don't know if it's going to be Red Hat, probably not, but some of these corporate
Chris: sponsors are going to snap and they're just going to start bypassing the community.
Wes: I think it's a stress test for that relationship and for their long-term values
Wes: and if those are something that they're willing to accept this tradeoff for or not.
Chris: It just feels like that's really what's at play here and the stakes couldn't
Chris: be higher with this one particular example. There's just so much.
Wes: It's showing up in these couple of ways, but there's more cooking underneath, yeah.
Chris: Well, thank you to everybody who supports the show with a boost.
Chris: That direct contribution goes to all of us, plus Editor Drew and the creator of your podcast app.
Chris: And if you boost above 2,000 sats, you get your message read on the air.
Chris: So it's a way to get a message in, send us some feedback, and support the show at the same time.
Chris: All of it sent over a peer-to-peer free software network. The entire stack is
Chris: free software, which we absolutely love, which means we can build all kind of tooling around.
Chris: And it's a really fun process if you're up for learning, if you're up for that.
Chris: Because once you get it set up, it's really easy. But the setup is the hard
Chris: part. once you get it set up you can just boost away and we do appreciate everybody
Chris: who supports the show directly.
Brent: Well, Rich was thinking about us this week, writing in twice.
Brent: Rich is asking how Chris plans to update his Hypervibe configs for Hyperland
Brent: 0.55's new Lua-based configuration system.
Brent: He's uncertain how the architectural shift will affect the Hypervibe setups
Brent: already packaged inside RichArch.
Brent: He notes that RichArch has already released an updated Hypervibe spin featuring
Brent: Noctalia shell on Hyperland.
Brent: But the Lua config migration may require further work to fully align with the
Brent: new system. Chris, any thoughts?
Chris: It is a big change for old Hyperland. It came out on May 9th, Hyperland 0.5.
Chris: And the big, big thing in there, like Rich mentioned, is the config is now done in Lua.
Chris: But you don't actually have your configs broken right away. There is a transition,
Chris: and it's pretty easy to have both existing at the same time right now.
Chris: But I'm actually surprised Rich asked this.
Chris: You know, I wonder, how old is the old Hypervibe repo now?
Wes: Good question.
Chris: Do you have a guess?
Wes: A year? Yeah, no. Is it not that long? Maybe your project's been that long,
Wes: but the repo's kind of...
Chris: What's the fastest way to tell? Just look at the commits or what? What's my...
Wes: Yeah, go see the oldest commit.
Chris: All right. Do I have to scroll down for that? Oh, gosh. It's going to be pages.
Wes: Oh, yeah. You've probably made a lot of commits.
Chris: It's going to be pages.
Wes: You might be able to go into the project analytics.
Chris: So what I was thinking...
Wes: Do I have it locally?
Chris: Oh, God. I'm only on February right now. I don't know how to tell.
Wes: Yeah, I got...
Chris: But what I was thinking about this is...
Wes: Initial commit, Sunday, August 10th, 2025. So not quite a year, but coming up.
Chris: Wow.
Brent: Do I win by Price is Right rules there?
Chris: It's a little bit blowing my noodle at this moment how much the tooling has
Chris: changed and improved since I started this.
Chris: Because what I created Hypervibe with feels archaic compared to what we can do now.
Wes: Totally.
Brent: If you were doing it today, would you even call it vibing, really?
Chris: No, I don't think so. No, because...
Wes: Because you're an agentic developer.
Chris: It'd be agentic, hyper agent... I don't know, agentic.
Brent: Hygentic?
Chris: There you go. Hygentic is good. But I'm surprised Rich is asking this because,
Chris: of course, I'm just tasking the machine to just...
Wes: We'll convert it.
Chris: Convert to the new... And it worked well.
Wes: I will say, this has me a little more interested in Hyperland.
Chris: Oh, yeah?
Wes: Uh-huh.
Chris: Oh.
Brent: How come?
Wes: I like Lua, and it's a nice way to do it, I think, and, um...
Wes: I'd like to try it.
Brent: So good decision?
Chris: It was the only gotcha I had is I had a custom script that set my monitor refresh
Chris: rate once and then paused and then set it again because it was working around
Chris: an old problem, which is no longer in Hyperland.
Chris: And so I had to undo that. But otherwise, completely smooth transition.
Brent: You mean in your NixOS you had some initialization script?
Wes: No activation scripts at all.
Chris: No, not me. We also got another email from you.
Wes: You've turned that. Activation script concept into an entire operating system.
Chris: Yeah, one day I'm just going to bake it all into one Go binary.
Brent: Well, Rich also wrote in the next day saying that they caught the Red Hat Summit.
Brent: Well, they actually caught the Red Hat Summit, unlike your dear Brent,
Brent: and dropped a quick field report.
Brent: The vendor expo floor was dominated by AI and OpenShift demos.
Brent: Red Hat's two biggest pushes right now, they say. And notably,
Brent: Microsoft maintained a large booth presence, underscoring the still strong Microsoft
Brent: and Red Hat partnership.
Brent: Rich did keep the report brief, but the picture was quite clear.
Brent: If you wanted to see anything other than AI orchestration and OpenShift at Red
Brent: Hat in 2026, you were completely out of luck.
Chris: Yeah, we knew it was going to be AI heavy. We weren't sure how hard they were
Chris: going to lean into agents.
Chris: And then they ended up calling agents the future of work. So they leaned in pretty hard.
Chris: Appreciate the report. Anybody that ever goes to an event like this that wants
Chris: to send us a report, even if it's an event that we're also monitoring or going
Chris: to, we still like your report.
Chris: And if you're going to be there, we always hope to be able to say hi, too.
Chris: And appreciate that, Rich. Good luck with the transition to the Lua stuff.
Chris: I think it'll go pretty smooth. Just, you know, ask the machine to do it,
Chris: Rich. What could go wrong? It's funny.
Chris: It strikes me that Rich is taking something that is machine-generated and then
Chris: handcrafting from it. Perhaps there's something to that.
Chris: Perhaps there's a future there. Who knows?
Chris: Well, Greg the Lawyer is our baller booster this week, and he's coming in.
Chris: Get ready for this, boys.
Chris: 233,333 Satoshis.
Chris: That makes him the best.
Brent: More like Greg the Baller.
Chris: Boosting in memory of the van. You guys are killing it. I use OpenSense Firewall,
Chris: and it does fail over perfectly.
Chris: Oh. Well, that's very nice. Thank you, Greg.
Chris: Have we ever heard from Greg before? Is he our first-time booster here? What's going on, boys?
Wes: I feel like we must have.
Brent: I believe we have.
Wes: I do believe Greg is in our Element chat, our Matrix chat, too.
Chris: Greg, thank you for being our baller booster. Just put this episode over the
Chris: top this week, so I really do appreciate it.
Chris: And, yeah, did he boost that memory, that van part from this morning?
Chris: because the bootleg, let's just say the California repair has gone wrong in
Chris: a way that I don't think anybody could have ever predicted or expected.
Chris: And whatever you're assuming it could have been is not it. And it's worth the bootleg right there.
Chris: Thank you, Greg. I really do appreciate that.
Wes: Landlocked Boosin with 25,000 cents.
Chris: All right.
Wes: Listening for a long time and finally set up Albie Hub with my own Bitcoin node.
Brent: Nice.
Wes: Keep up the truly great work.
Chris: Well done Thank you so much for taking the time to do that But also I hope you
Chris: had a lot of fun It is a very good learning experience Well done,
Chris: Landlocked Thank you very much.
Brent: Nyquist sent in a 5,000 set test boost for us And we will say success.
Chris: Received Thank you very much, Nyquist Always welcome to test with us.
Brent: Tomato and or tomato also boosted in with a total of 6,660 satoshis.
Brent: Here's a little BSD challenge report. Couldn't find the time for the BSD challenge
Brent: last week, so I did this week. It is not hammer time.
Brent: I tried Dragonfly BSD, and I now see why disliking it is a meme among BSD users.
Brent: I did get open BSD running, however.
Brent: Daily driver level didn't try the sound, though.
Brent: Everything in power user category of the challenge, too. So 23 points for me.
Wes: Nice.
Chris: Well done.
Brent: As for the question in the episode of why BSD, I think Wes was on the right track with that one.
Brent: I'm a regular NetBSD user, and I've been since the 90s. Wow.
Brent: It's well-designed, it's simple, and I understand all the parts of the system.
Brent: I can read the source, find what I need, and change it easily.
Brent: It rebuilds, even cross-compiled, easily and quickly.
Brent: The whole thing is not janky and not a big pile of hacks. I'm happy with Linux
Brent: having all the features and NetBSD being stable and no churn no need to constantly
Brent: relearn things alright.
Chris: I mean it's the same argument the anti-SystemD crowd uses and I still think
Chris: SystemD is worth having, but I do like that there is an alternative,
Chris: something that for people that don't want things to change.
Wes: To exist I think that was very well very well said.
Chris: Tomato it was, Tomato, I'm being a little cantankerous on purpose about it just
Chris: to sort of poke the BSD folks.
Chris: But it is the same argument the anti-SystemD crowd would make for going with
Chris: DavWan or something like that.
Wes: Somebody got a horn in their back.
Chris: But, no. I think it's a good point, and I'm, you know, in that context,
Chris: because we do have Linux and SystemD, and we do have those changes and that
Chris: evolution, it is nice to have something that remains sort of,
Chris: you learned it 10 years ago, and gosh darn it, if you want to type IP configure,
Chris: whatever it is, you're going to get it.
Chris: And you know what? but it's still going to be called ETH Zero,
Chris: and it's going to stay that way. And that's how it's going to be, and I like that about it.
Chris: So it be. So it be. Distro Stew comes in with 11,111 sats. Woo.
Chris: I feel like there's a message in there somewhere.
Wes: Nice to hear from Distro Stew.
Chris: It is. It is. Distro Stew's a good guy. I ran OpenBSD on a ThinkPad 20 years ago with Wi-Fi working.
Chris: Back then, Linux and BSD were about as painful to use as each other.
Chris: Yeah, I understand that. But I'm still using OpenSense on some of my routers.
Wes: Nice.
Chris: I revisited FreeBSD, and I do that from time to time, but I'm a developer and
Chris: the experience has gotten worse over time for me.
Brent: Oh, no.
Chris: Most IDEs barely work and I need Docker for a bunch of my workflows.
Chris: I think BSD has always been good for appliances or data centers,
Chris: but it's only been backed more into a corner over the years.
Chris: It continues to surprise me how little BSD has, and you're probably going to say evolve or change.
Chris: I feel like it's a little bit of the Fedora thing. Like nobody's really using
Chris: Fedora for AI workloads outside of core Red Hat customers.
Chris: But like when people are building these projects right now, they're not really
Chris: deploying Fedora out there when they're setting up their first open claw.
Chris: And that was how things began for BSD as well.
Chris: It's just, well, yeah, but when I set up this new thing, I do it on the lamp
Chris: stack. And when I do this new thing, I do it, you know, and that's just over time.
Chris: I'm not drawing a direct line there. I'm just pointing out that that is something that happens.
Wes: Olmec comes in with 15,453 sats.
Wes: first time booster hey yes nice well done double points because using my own albi hub.
Chris: Very impressed.
Wes: What is your view on Linux's MDADM or MDAdmin?
Chris: Got to ask a good question.
Wes: At work, we use hardware RAID in most of our servers. And in my experience,
Wes: the RAID controllers often die faster than the disks themselves.
Chris: That has been, ironically, my observation as well. And I will state,
Chris: I started life in IT as a RAID controller stand.
Chris: Very big fan, battery-powered, had additional RAM on there, very precarious
Chris: and particular about which one.
Chris: And over the years, I have personally gone to completely trusting software RAID.
Chris: I find it more flexible. I find it to be perfectly stable and reliable.
Chris: I'm curious, your thought.
Wes: Yeah, he does continue here. However, the sysadmins are quite skeptical of software RAID.
Chris: A lot of traditional folks are.
Wes: Why do you think this is? P.S., defining a RAID setup via NixOS Disco works incredibly well.
Chris: Yeah, I have to say, especially, too, if you're going to deploy,
Chris: like, a large ZFS pool in a RAID, you really just don't want hardware RAID in
Chris: the mix. You want to let ZFS manage that whole stack, and it's going to probably
Chris: do a better job than a RAID controller will.
Chris: So I just think it's an older way of looking at things, and it shows you how
Chris: these things change over time, but people get entrenched in a particular workflow.
Chris: I mean, it still works for them. But the worst thing ever is when your RAID controller dies.
Chris: Your disks are fine. It looks like a disk failure at first or something like that.
Chris: It's the worst when it's the RAID controller itself, which is supposed to be
Chris: providing redundancy, is the thing that takes you out.
Wes: I do think maybe you do have to watch out for things like if you needed RAID
Wes: 5 and there's still the right hole problem.
Wes: and there may be particular performance profiles or certain workloads or whatever
Wes: that maybe there makes a case for.
Wes: But I do think in this day and age, it behooves one to actually look because
Wes: Linux has made great strides in that subsystem.
Wes: And so there are a lot of things that, between like sort of atomic guarantees
Wes: and performance and especially flexibility, that it probably makes sense in
Wes: a lot of situations. And it's worth exploring what the real limitations are.
Chris: Yeah, it's not 100% black and white because there is different considerations
Chris: and constraints when you're doing software RAID, just like there's a lot of
Chris: different constraints and considerations when you're doing a hardware RAID.
Chris: And you may not want to map them one-to-one. And so if you're a shop that only
Chris: knows hardware RAID, it's probably going to be safer.
Wes: Or you have a particular need and a relationship with a vendor and you're well-supported,
Wes: then that's a different situation than like, I'm not going to be able to afford
Wes: to replace this hardware controller on demand and I'm worried about these disks
Wes: maintaining this array long-term. That's a very different position.
Chris: Or you're trying to pitch like some large ZFS pool for your shop to have a huge
Chris: storage of data on a ZFS array. and you you know you got the you know the folks
Chris: that are trying to suggest you go hardware rate that's when you go hold on a
Chris: second here hold on a second here well.
Brent: A dude is trying stuff by boosting six thousand seven hundred and sixty seven cents,
Brent: Gen Z boost.
Chris: All right.
Brent: Do we have something for that? Do we have a Gen Z?
Wes: We have to work on that.
Chris: What would be a Gen Z boost? I'm not sure. You let me know.
Brent: Question. If we eventually get to the point where we have a legitimate local
Brent: AI model that is broadly and privately helping people day to day to be able to infer,
Brent: well, do inference with their computer, Do you see personal computers being
Brent: equipped with GPUs for local inference in the long term?
Brent: Or will there finally be a use for all those AI-ready processors?
Chris: I suspect.
Wes: Yeah, it seems like it'll probably be stuff like NPUs and, you know,
Wes: various sorts of pieces of hardware. It may not be a full classical GPU necessarily.
Chris: We forget just 10, 15 years ago how many things on our computers were not hardware
Chris: accelerated and all ran on the CPU.
Wes: No kidding.
Chris: And we have spent 10, 15 years building dedicated chips and co-processors or
Chris: offloading things to the GPU.
Chris: And now when you get your, you know, your internet phone or a standard laptop
Chris: or PC, they've got stuff dedicated for H.264 processing and decoding and encoding.
Chris: Like they've got stuff on there for all kinds of dedicated subjobs that just get dispatched to them.
Chris: And I imagine that trend would just continue because it's the most probably
Chris: cost effective and power efficient way. Maybe.
Chris: I'm not sure. But it seems to be the way things go.
Chris: Whamgeek's here with 10,000 sats. Nice.
Chris: And he's sending a little coolant for poor Brent's van.
Brent: Yeah, I might need fuel, too, at this point. Again, see the bootleg, it is said.
Chris: It's bad. It's bad.
Wes: Magnolia Mayhem comes in with 6,300 sats.
Chris: Oh! Oh!
Wes: I don't have any fries to get back to, so here's a boost.
Chris: Thank you, sir. Thank you, sir. Another bootleg reference. Bootleg is coming in thick today.
Chris: Thanks for the live boost, guys. Really, between the baller boost and the live
Chris: boost, really putting it over from kind of a standard affair episode,
Chris: maybe even not doing so well, to a really strong episode.
Chris: It just takes a few people, and it makes really all the difference.
Wes: I do want to pull forward Moon and I boosted in 520 stats just because they're kind of having fun.
Wes: You can tell timestamps on boosts after I made a comment that we added that
Wes: picking up on the metadata when it's included.
Wes: well, guess I have to boost 420 sats at minute 69.
Chris: That would be a whole new level of combo and a way to maybe do a discount combo
Chris: is your boost amount combined with the time code.
Chris: But you'd have to give us a hint. We're not going to just notice it automatically.
Chris: But that could be a neat combination of numbers and tricks.
Brent: Well, I mean, it was 420 sats, so maybe it is at minute 69. I love this.
Chris: You know, maybe you double it or something. Okay, so there you go.
Chris: Thank you, everybody who support us.
Chris: Of course, folks also just turned on the SAT streaming and their podcasting
Chris: 2.0 app that support it, and they streamed SATs as they listened.
Chris: 18 people did that stacking us 29,186 SATs this week.
Chris: When you combine that with our boosters, we had a grand total of 342,015 Satoshis.
Chris: Not too bad at all. Thank you, everybody who supported the show with a boost.
Chris: It is a value for value podcast. We put it out there right now with very limited
Chris: sponsorship. The community keeps us going with a signal of value.
Chris: If you got value from the show, you send it back.
Chris: One of the great things about the boost is an entirely free software stack.
Chris: So we're doing it with no middleman, no PayPal who shut down our account or anything like that.
Chris: Thank you, everybody who supports the show with a boost. And,
Chris: of course, thank you to our members as well. We really do appreciate you.
Chris: Well, we've got a few picks to cover before we get out of here,
Chris: and BudsLink has been making its way around again, so we wanted to pull it forward.
Chris: It's an application that provides battery monitoring and other features to control
Chris: different Bluetooth-wearable audio devices, including AirPods,
Chris: Beats, Sony audio wearables, Samsung Galaxy Buds, and the Nothing Buds as well.
Chris: And it looks like it's got a pretty slick UI for it as well. Pretty good.
Wes: Yeah, it's nice just because I think this is the kind of thing,
Wes: if you are getting started or maybe using the Linux desktop a little more.
Chris: You just want to have. Get your AMA-RG on your framework.
Wes: Yeah, exactly.
Chris: Coming from your MacBook.
Wes: It feels well supported. It makes us feel like we know what we're doing.
Wes: We're not stuck in, you know, 1995.
Chris: I go back to, as well, it's a good trend that we keep seeing these boutique, well-built,
Chris: very purpose-focused apps because that was something that the Mac got 10,
Chris: 20 years ago, and it started to slow down as the platform gets worse.
Chris: And now isn't it interesting as those folks have come over to Linux and other
Chris: people are now here to use these applications. We're starting to see that type of stuff show up.
Chris: And it is available as a flat pack, which is nice. You can get it going really quick and easy.
Chris: It communicates with devices that are using the L2 cap or RF comm sockets.
Chris: RF comm. That sounds old. And it is GPL3 as well. Yeah.
Chris: Now, Wes, I believe you found YAML Cast this week.
Chris: YAML Cast is a really neat tool. It uses a YAML description of a terminal screencast
Chris: and converts it into an animated Jeff.
Wes: Yeah, okay. So under the hood, there's the excellent VHS tool,
Wes: which is, as they say, your CLI home video recorder.
Wes: But essentially, write terminal GIFs as code.
Wes: So you want a GIF of, like, something happened.
Wes: Sorry, animated Jeff of something happening in your terminal,
Wes: right? Maybe to demo changes to your product or some new feature you're adding
Wes: or a workflow you're doing or the cool AI thing you built, whatever.
Chris: Oh, yeah. Definitely got to show that off. Everybody cares.
Wes: Well, I send you guys. I send you guys a fair amount of MP4s and GIFs.
Chris: I send it to you because you guys are the only people that care.
Chris: Brent only barely cares.
Wes: Yeah, true, true. Okay, so great tool.
Wes: So you kind of write it out, but they have this custom tape format,
Wes: they call it, which is cute, and it's part of the name, right?
Wes: But it's just like this custom sort of ad hoc format for them.
Wes: Maybe you want to be able to use something more standard. So this is just sort
Wes: of a YAML wrapper that's able to make...
Chris: It takes that .tape.
Wes: Well, no, it lets you write YAML, and then it turns it into the .tape and then
Wes: uses VHS to render it. So you can just go straight from YAML to...
Chris: No, I'm following you totally.
Brent: This is not niche at all, guys. Not niche at all.
Chris: And so it's VHS that produces the Jeff.
Wes: That's correct.
Chris: Oh, my God. Okay, great. Thank you, Wes. What a great find.
Wes: And it sort of starts making sense if you go look at a .tape file, and then you look at...
Wes: I mean, we know what a YAML file looks, but if you look at the example .yaml
Wes: here in the repo, So you've got to see, like, if you just want to be able to
Wes: list, it looks a lot more like something you'd see in CI, which is like a list
Wes: of bash commands or whatever you're running in YAML that you're kind of used
Wes: to reading rather than having to maybe adapt to an arbitrary format.
Chris: I'm looking forward to seeing a screencast from you soon. You know,
Chris: I'm looking forward to it.
Chris: So this next pick is pretty interesting. A entrepreneuring developer has managed
Chris: to combine Wine staging with a series of patches and DLL files that have been
Chris: modified to get a reproducible recipe for running Adobe Lightroom Creative Cloud on Linux.
Chris: You get the full Creative Cloud desktop app working under Wine.
Chris: You can sign into Creative Cloud. You can get cloud-synced photo library photos.
Chris: there are some dialogues that don't work but the remove, heal tools,
Chris: brush, mask that type of stuff is working there's a couple things that still
Chris: aren't totally sorted if you've got a 64-bit Linux distro with Wine 11.8 staging or newer,
Chris: NVIDIA, AMD or Intel GPU as long as you've got Vulkan drivers working and a
Chris: valid Creative Cloud subscription,
Chris: and about 10 gigs of free you can actually get Lightroom Creative Cloud now working,
Chris: on Linux. Pretty neat.
Brent: This is so wild.
Wes: The state of wine these days is just something else.
Chris: The Adobe tools coming, I mean, the next unlock is going to be Photoshop and
Chris: then Premiere and then eventually After Effects. And once we get to After Effects...
Brent: What are the main things we hear about people not being able to move to Linux?
Brent: One was gaming, solved, right? For the most part.
Brent: Second was Adobe tools. Well, today, that sounds like that's solved.
Brent: So we're running out of reasons. People can't just use Linux right now.
Chris: Unlock my mom has been using
Chris: photoshop since 1.0 she got access to the beta i
Chris: mean she was she was involved in a seattle graphics arts program when they
Chris: called using photoshop and things like that
Chris: they called it graphic arts yeah yeah and um our seattle institute of art had
Chris: a program and they had a partnership with adobe and all of that that she was
Chris: involved with so to say that she's been using photoshop for a little while is
Chris: she's been using photoshop for as long as any human that doesn't work at adobe
Chris: can possibly use photoshop and her entire career pipeline is around the built around.
Wes: Those tools yeah.
Chris: So she doesn't she continues year after year to have she has to buy a new mac
Chris: and she eventually gets forced because of the deprecation of the os and the
Chris: updates and so for her this would be such a massive massive unlock if i could
Chris: move her to linux then all she has to maintain is a creative cloud subscription.
Wes: Yes i guess apple doesn't really offer anything like well forever do they no.
Chris: And the thing that strikes me is if if an individual with cloud code can do
Chris: this then what's stopping adobe from doing this directly and just kind of going
Chris: the valve route creating an adobe proton style compatibility layer,
Chris: that then they just design their applications to run on top of yeah,
Chris: We'll get on at Adobe. Like, let's start spending some money on this.
Wes: It's also kind of wild, just another reminder of how much at this point Linux
Wes: is really becoming a Windows runtime.
Chris: Yeah. Yeah, really. Which is, I think, the ultimate future of Windows, inevitably.
Brent: If only Microsoft would realize it.
Chris: Yeah, they will one day, but it's going to take them a while.
Chris: And, you know, I'm never going to use this. We're not going to use this.
Chris: But it just seemed like a milestone to get a current Creative Cloud product,
Chris: something like Lightroom, running on Linux.
Wes: Go see what you can port to Linux today. Well, not important,
Wes: but, you know, hack together in mind today.
Chris: Yeah, tell us. We want to know. All right, that is everything.
Chris: Links to what we talked about will be in the show notes, which you can find
Chris: at linuxunplugged.com slash 667 or, of course, over at jupiterbroadcasting.com.
Chris: Also, I want to encourage you to make it a special event. Make it a Tuesday on a Sunday.
Chris: Join us Sundays at 10 a.m. Pacific, 1 p.m. Eastern.
Clips: See you next week. Same bad time, same bad station.
Chris: Wes Payne, you want to tell them about some pro tips? Metadata,
Chris: things like that, transcripts.
Wes: Oh, yeah. Well, we've stuffed a whole bunch of extra features into our RSS feed.
Wes: So maybe just go look at it because it's nice to look at on its own.
Chris: Can I tell you, if we were like corporate owned, we'd be saying it's the agentic ready podcast.
Wes: That's right. It sure is.
Chris: Because our chapters are in JSON. Our transcripts are plain text that any agent can ingest.
Wes: Point your MCPs our way.
Chris: Our podcast is more agentic ready than your buddy's podcast. That's for sure.
Wes: Cloud JSON chapters. That's cloud native chapters.
Chris: We'll never do that again. All right. Thank you so much for tuning in this week's episode.
Wes: Hybrid Cloud Transcripts.
Chris: Oh, yeah, thank you. We'll see you right back here next Tuesday. As in Sunday.