WEBVTT 00:00:11.500 --> 00:00:16.015 Hello, friends, and welcome back to your weekly Linux talk show. My name is Chris. 00:00:16.015 --> 00:00:16.705 My name is Wes. 00:00:16.705 --> 00:00:17.566 And my name is Brent. 00:00:18.228 --> 00:00:22.775 Hello, gentlemen. Coming up on the show this week, some of us build dashboards. 00:00:22.775 --> 00:00:26.053 Others turn their desktop into a dashboard. 00:00:26.413 --> 00:00:30.205 Quickshell is changing the Linux landscape in a massive way, 00:00:30.205 --> 00:00:31.417 and it kicked off this summer. 00:00:31.893 --> 00:00:35.045 We'll dig into what it is, how you can start having some fun with it, 00:00:35.242 --> 00:00:37.565 and what we've built. Then we're going to round out the show with some great 00:00:37.565 --> 00:00:41.765 boosts, some picks, and a lot more. So before we get there, let's say time-appropriate 00:00:41.765 --> 00:00:43.862 greetings to our virtual lug. Hello, Mumble Room. 00:00:44.693 --> 00:00:47.665 Hello, Chris. Hello, Brent. 00:00:47.665 --> 00:00:51.136 Hello. Happy birthday, PJ and everybody up there. Thank you for joining us. 00:00:51.635 --> 00:00:53.895 Also, look at that quiet listening, too. Hi up there. 00:00:53.895 --> 00:00:56.115 On a Sunday, on a Tuesday, no less. 00:00:56.115 --> 00:01:01.734 Getting that low latency, Opus. Also, a big good morning to our friends at Define Networking. 00:01:02.913 --> 00:01:07.371 Define.net slash unplug. Go meet Manage Nebula from Define Networking. 00:01:07.928 --> 00:01:11.215 When there's something as foundational as my network, I want to know I own the 00:01:11.215 --> 00:01:14.925 stack end to end, especially over the long term. If I build this thing and I 00:01:14.925 --> 00:01:17.286 build stuff on top of it, it's not a two year thing. 00:01:17.983 --> 00:01:21.825 It's a 10 year thing. This is what I love about Nebula. It's open source and 00:01:21.825 --> 00:01:26.465 it was originally built to secure Slack's massive global infrastructure. 00:01:26.465 --> 00:01:28.339 I mean, just think about that one for a second. 00:01:28.809 --> 00:01:31.925 And today it's trusted from everybody from Rivian to Home Labs. 00:01:31.925 --> 00:01:34.565 I mean, I use it in multiple different ways for small systems, 00:01:34.565 --> 00:01:36.918 direct direct to larger mesh networks. 00:01:37.580 --> 00:01:42.385 And Manage Nebula, which is define.net slash unplugged, Manage Nebula gives 00:01:42.385 --> 00:01:46.415 you the open foundation and peer-to-peer resilience while they handle the certificate 00:01:46.415 --> 00:01:48.412 management and some of the operational headaches. 00:01:48.679 --> 00:01:50.775 You can also spin up your own lighthouses in that scenario. 00:01:51.210 --> 00:01:54.978 You get full control without the busy work, without the big tech login barrier. 00:01:55.500 --> 00:01:59.365 Go get started 100 hosts for free, no credit card required, define.net slash 00:01:59.365 --> 00:02:04.154 unplugged. Go check it out. Redefine your VPN experience, define.net slash unplugged. 00:02:08.478 --> 00:02:12.953 All right, so I will admit it, I wanted to talk about QuickShell this week because 00:02:12.953 --> 00:02:15.055 I think something really special is happening here. 00:02:15.827 --> 00:02:20.332 QuickShell is a toolkit for building status bars, widgets, lock screens, 00:02:21.743 --> 00:02:25.073 other various desktop components, and it's using QtQuick and QML. 00:02:25.073 --> 00:02:28.737 And it can be used alongside your Wayland compositor or window manager, 00:02:29.480 --> 00:02:31.866 or you can build a complete desktop environment with it. 00:02:33.329 --> 00:02:36.731 And it's sort of the ultimate end result, I think, of Wayland. 00:02:37.555 --> 00:02:42.373 And it's fascinating because it means you don't actually need a desktop environment 00:02:42.373 --> 00:02:45.693 anymore. Now, it's not to take away from the hard work that they do to make 00:02:45.693 --> 00:02:46.832 a usable desktop environment. 00:02:47.319 --> 00:02:50.744 Yeah, if you want that, we have better options than ever, and it's excellent. 00:02:51.058 --> 00:02:55.463 But it does mean that you could mix and match, or you can now completely create 00:02:55.463 --> 00:03:00.843 your own environment in a way that's actually achievable to anyone listening to this podcast. Yeah. 00:03:02.243 --> 00:03:06.073 And that is remarkable because you don't need to be attached to any particular 00:03:06.073 --> 00:03:10.143 desktop vendor anymore or any particular toolkit. It's really fascinating. 00:03:10.584 --> 00:03:12.523 So it means, you know, if you want your own desktop widgets, 00:03:12.523 --> 00:03:15.443 your own launcher, your own lock screen, or if you want to take advantage of 00:03:15.443 --> 00:03:17.417 the many that are out there that have been built, you can. 00:03:18.613 --> 00:03:21.893 It gives you the building blocks to create or replace just about all the pieces 00:03:21.893 --> 00:03:25.993 of the desktop environment you care about, but still using a standard toolkit, 00:03:25.993 --> 00:03:30.182 a standard API, and sort of the best of Qt and modern Qt. You think that's fair? Yeah. 00:03:30.633 --> 00:03:32.663 Yeah. I mean, maybe it's worth thinking about where this all sits. 00:03:32.663 --> 00:03:37.383 So we talked about Wayland, right? So Wayland ends up being the protocol that 00:03:37.383 --> 00:03:40.248 sits at the bottom of things. So you need your actual Wayland compositor, 00:03:40.521 --> 00:03:43.733 which could be something like Hyperland or Neary or KWIN. 00:03:44.393 --> 00:03:47.603 There's a bunch of options. Sway uses like the WL roots stuff, 00:03:47.603 --> 00:03:49.033 which a bunch of them use under the hood. 00:03:50.761 --> 00:03:55.083 And then that lets you like draw stuff to the screen, right? 00:03:55.083 --> 00:03:57.303 But you actually, you're going to need to do more. And a lot of these provide 00:03:57.303 --> 00:03:59.235 some basic like window management and that kind of thing. 00:03:59.508 --> 00:04:04.893 But basically after that, nothing else, right? So if you want status indicators, 00:04:04.893 --> 00:04:06.673 you want things you can click to like 00:04:06.673 --> 00:04:09.858 move windows around or switch which workspace you're on or any of that. 00:04:10.049 --> 00:04:13.913 Or if you want to build a widget that has a common interface to talk to network manager. 00:04:13.913 --> 00:04:16.543 There you go. Maybe you want to be able to select your Wi-Fi network. 00:04:16.543 --> 00:04:17.853 None of that comes out of the box. 00:04:17.853 --> 00:04:21.393 So that's where you need this whole shell layer on top. 00:04:21.393 --> 00:04:25.273 And QuickShell is an interesting use where they took, I mean, 00:04:25.273 --> 00:04:29.573 like when I'm used to thinking about Qt, i think object oriented c plus plus 00:04:30.013 --> 00:04:31.813 you know what i mean it's low level uh, 00:04:32.329 --> 00:04:35.603 you can do lots of great stuff it's a whole toolkit for you know interfacing 00:04:35.603 --> 00:04:38.308 with wayland drawing things creating and managing windows, 00:04:38.923 --> 00:04:42.784 um but it involves compiling c plus plus and building c plus plus and kind of 00:04:43.068 --> 00:04:45.663 it sounds like something maybe you do if you were building your own plasma but 00:04:45.663 --> 00:04:49.353 doesn't really sound like something you want to do for quick you know i'm just 00:04:49.353 --> 00:04:53.353 working on trying to build out a cool new widget and that's where qml comes in 00:04:53.777 --> 00:04:56.807 and qml which is the cute markup language 00:04:57.243 --> 00:04:59.669 uh it's a declarative. 00:05:00.661 --> 00:05:04.347 A super simple little programming language, essentially, that lets you describe 00:05:04.347 --> 00:05:06.483 the widgets and the interface that you want to build. 00:05:06.843 --> 00:05:10.027 And then it can either be ahead of time compiled into C++ or, 00:05:10.027 --> 00:05:14.277 and this is the part that makes it super useful to work on, it can just be reloaded 00:05:14.277 --> 00:05:16.108 at runtime and drawn on the screen. 00:05:16.770 --> 00:05:21.187 And so QuickShell, under the hood you have Qt, and then you have QtQuick, 00:05:21.187 --> 00:05:25.337 which is a pre-bundled set of common stuff you can use, like basic drawing blocks. 00:05:25.337 --> 00:05:28.537 And the API, you want to be able to put rectangles and circles and all that 00:05:28.537 --> 00:05:29.634 kind of stuff on the screen. 00:05:30.104 --> 00:05:34.687 and quick shell takes that it sits and runs the cute event loop it's kind of 00:05:34.687 --> 00:05:38.045 going to be the thing that actually talks to the whaling compositor and draws things, 00:05:38.556 --> 00:05:42.377 and it looks on your file system wherever you tell it and it loads qml from 00:05:42.377 --> 00:05:46.294 there and then it can in a loop re-evaluate the qml, 00:05:46.799 --> 00:05:51.297 redraw stuff on the screen and it's done a lot of the hard work to build qml 00:05:51.297 --> 00:05:55.067 services which are basically extra apis available to you when you're writing 00:05:55.067 --> 00:05:56.492 a qml on top of quick shell 00:05:56.794 --> 00:06:01.357 that bind to like pipe wire and there's a plugin that handles niri or there's 00:06:01.357 --> 00:06:04.557 uh they have a first party plugin for hyperland so now you can get access to 00:06:04.557 --> 00:06:06.076 all of the hyperland stat state 00:06:06.413 --> 00:06:08.926 right in the qml and then the biggest part that is 00:06:09.338 --> 00:06:11.626 wild because this has been in since like q5, 00:06:12.659 --> 00:06:18.297 how far ahead it is in some ways is qml is designed to be reactive yes so think 00:06:18.297 --> 00:06:21.707 of it kind of like a spreadsheet right where you have linked formulas and cells 00:06:21.707 --> 00:06:25.427 yeah yeah and so you make a change in one cell and everything else automatically 00:06:25.427 --> 00:06:26.127 recomputes and updates. 00:06:26.207 --> 00:06:26.967 Rescales, yeah. 00:06:26.967 --> 00:06:31.787 And so you can describe declarative widgets and bars and panels and docs. 00:06:31.787 --> 00:06:33.313 And they'll rescale to the appropriate display. 00:06:33.574 --> 00:06:37.342 Well, not only that, but like if you update whatever data at the root, 00:06:37.562 --> 00:06:41.307 everything downstream, you don't have to handle like manually updating each 00:06:41.307 --> 00:06:44.117 part of the widget, right? It's much closer to something like React, 00:06:44.117 --> 00:06:47.036 where you describe what you want the final state to look like. 00:06:47.545 --> 00:06:51.271 And as long as you're binding in properties from QML... 00:06:52.358 --> 00:06:56.944 it all just auto-updates. It's like a differential data flow UI engine that 00:06:56.944 --> 00:06:58.912 you get for free just by using QML. 00:06:59.063 --> 00:07:01.294 That you can declaratively define. 00:07:01.294 --> 00:07:01.894 Exactly. 00:07:01.894 --> 00:07:07.167 It sounds like a completely new way to look at how to build desktops. Am I getting that wrong? 00:07:07.950 --> 00:07:11.346 No, you're getting it right. And what's new, what's changed, 00:07:11.462 --> 00:07:16.254 is in May, version 0.3.0 came out, which added a bunch of stuff, 00:07:16.254 --> 00:07:18.968 like PaulKit, Pipewire, Wayland idle timers, 00:07:19.784 --> 00:07:23.874 just more control over managing the windows, A lot of multi-monitor fixes went 00:07:23.874 --> 00:07:29.829 in, and then it was followed by a 0.31 stability release in late August, 00:07:30.340 --> 00:07:34.241 which fixed a few crashes involving multi-monitors and Wi-Fi and things like that. 00:07:35.001 --> 00:07:38.252 So it sort of got recognition after these more recent releases. 00:07:39.465 --> 00:07:43.914 You can use it alongside Plasma pretty easily. You can also use it on GNOME, 00:07:43.914 --> 00:07:46.413 although for full integration, you would need a corresponding extension. 00:07:47.829 --> 00:07:55.202 But it's really blowing up on Hyperland and other tiling window managers because 00:07:55.329 --> 00:07:59.194 there are projects that are now giving you more of a – I wouldn't call it a 00:07:59.194 --> 00:08:01.234 complete desktop because Wes will give me a hard time. 00:08:01.234 --> 00:08:04.314 But I would say it gives you like a status bar, application timers, 00:08:04.314 --> 00:08:07.555 a control center for like which Wi-Fi network, audio device, 00:08:07.978 --> 00:08:13.011 notifications and D&D, calendar integration, Bluetooth controls, 00:08:13.974 --> 00:08:17.104 you know, settings, drop down, things like that that are kind of nice to have 00:08:17.104 --> 00:08:21.765 on any desktop that don't come inherently with nearly any of these tiling window managers. 00:08:21.963 --> 00:08:25.614 Sort of the day-to-day stuff that you'd expect to like run and operate a machine 00:08:25.614 --> 00:08:29.492 just from the GUI without having to know a bunch of keyboard shortcuts or stuff like that. 00:08:29.811 --> 00:08:33.054 But they're, and it's beautiful. It's also, I don't know if we've touched on 00:08:33.054 --> 00:08:34.646 this, but it's gorgeous. 00:08:35.198 --> 00:08:38.791 It's, it looks like some of the most modern desktop Linux out there. 00:08:39.790 --> 00:08:43.084 And Hyperland really is a nice fit because it's a very smooth desktop, 00:08:43.084 --> 00:08:44.154 but it doesn't bring anything. 00:08:44.903 --> 00:08:47.451 And really, and so this kind of gives you something to work with. 00:08:47.991 --> 00:08:51.712 The other reason it's getting some traction is Amarchi is using it, Amarchi. 00:08:52.467 --> 00:08:56.354 They have a Quattro release in the works, and they've kind of built a whole 00:08:56.354 --> 00:08:59.020 Hyperland shell around QuickShell. 00:08:59.653 --> 00:09:03.270 And the desktop is a QuickShell process called Amarchi shell, 00:09:03.734 --> 00:09:07.334 and has a top bar, drop-down control panels, notifications, volume, 00:09:07.774 --> 00:09:10.954 brightness stuff, application menu, clipboard, emoji, overlays, 00:09:10.954 --> 00:09:12.842 lock screen. Yeah, these are the whole lock screen. 00:09:13.765 --> 00:09:15.866 You know, pseudo-prompts, background services. 00:09:16.842 --> 00:09:19.556 And because everything is sort of like Gnome Shell, where it's sort of one big, 00:09:19.556 --> 00:09:23.116 large process, they can rechange and refresh stuff while it's running. 00:09:23.116 --> 00:09:26.594 But they also have a plug-in system, which sits on top of QuickShell. 00:09:26.966 --> 00:09:28.136 They've already had over a 00:09:28.136 --> 00:09:31.482 thousand different contributions of plug-ins in their quote-unquote store. 00:09:31.952 --> 00:09:33.956 They also ran a little bit of a competition, 00:09:33.956 --> 00:09:36.286 and they awarded some of the competitions and stuff like that. 00:09:37.060 --> 00:09:40.206 Yeah, this is where it kind of gets interesting that it's using QML. 00:09:40.206 --> 00:09:43.746 Because at first, it kind of just, you know, you could almost view it like sort 00:09:43.746 --> 00:09:46.476 of something like Nix. It's declarative. You set a lot of properties, 00:09:46.476 --> 00:09:49.646 right? Like I need to set the width of this piece of the UI or something, 00:09:49.646 --> 00:09:51.792 you know, the background color, all those kinds of normal things. 00:09:52.350 --> 00:09:56.576 But the properties can also be expressions, which are just JavaScript. 00:09:56.576 --> 00:10:00.996 And once you put that there, you can basically do anything. It becomes essentially 00:10:00.996 --> 00:10:02.085 a full programming language. 00:10:02.566 --> 00:10:05.585 And so that means you can have really self-contained little plugins because, 00:10:06.798 --> 00:10:10.806 Quickshell and QML offer stuff like, you know, talking to REST APIs, 00:10:10.806 --> 00:10:14.362 reading files on the file system, doing like Dbus and Unix sockets. 00:10:14.676 --> 00:10:17.659 you get all kinds of different ways to pull data in. So if you want, 00:10:17.955 --> 00:10:20.866 however you want to surface that, an API that runs on your box, 00:10:20.866 --> 00:10:25.896 a file from the file system, something else, if you can use those hooks to bring 00:10:25.896 --> 00:10:29.416 data into QML, then the rest of the stuff all just applies, right? 00:10:29.416 --> 00:10:32.346 So it's the second you've got it in there, you can build a UI with it. 00:10:32.346 --> 00:10:35.666 I did, and I'll talk about that in a little bit. I built a couple things. 00:10:35.858 --> 00:10:39.474 And so the Omachi setup is, 00:10:39.950 --> 00:10:42.826 you can have this top level, it's all just like, you can just have essentially 00:10:42.826 --> 00:10:46.166 a big folder of QML, And then because the plugins are mostly self-contained, 00:10:46.166 --> 00:10:49.146 then we could rely on like Hyperland specific stuff or whatever, 00:10:49.146 --> 00:10:51.490 you know, there's some more specificity in some of them. 00:10:51.699 --> 00:10:56.916 But in general, you just drop that folder in the tree and Quickshell is already 00:10:56.916 --> 00:11:00.386 set up to reload that anyway. And then the second you reference it anywhere 00:11:00.386 --> 00:11:02.954 else or, you know, it can tie up all the strings for you. 00:11:03.580 --> 00:11:04.175 And then you're done. 00:11:04.175 --> 00:11:07.115 And one of the nice things about that is it keeps a real consistent look. 00:11:07.115 --> 00:11:10.215 So all of their plugins for their desktop, for their Quattro desktop, 00:11:10.616 --> 00:11:14.625 they all have a consistent theme. And when you change the shell theme, 00:11:14.625 --> 00:11:19.215 they all immediately adapt and are consistent. It's very, it's really quite nice. 00:11:19.215 --> 00:11:24.735 Yeah. And so internally, they can expose sort of properties inside QML. 00:11:24.735 --> 00:11:27.115 And then so when you're building a downstream plugin, if you just reference 00:11:27.115 --> 00:11:29.175 that, you automatically get that consistency. 00:11:29.175 --> 00:11:32.935 So historically, throughout Linux and all the various distributions that are 00:11:32.935 --> 00:11:35.935 out there, we had these boutique distributions where, you know, 00:11:35.935 --> 00:11:39.575 a couple of Rockstar developers would or one Rockstar developer or whatever 00:11:39.575 --> 00:11:43.955 it might be, would get together and they would create their version of a desktop environment. 00:11:43.955 --> 00:11:46.941 We still have versions of these at different scales. 00:11:48.045 --> 00:11:51.955 But what I think we're going to see with QuickShell and AI-assisted development 00:11:51.955 --> 00:11:55.672 and with bases like Arch and NixOS is you're going to see…. 00:11:56.973 --> 00:12:02.932 Hundreds and thousands of little teeny tiny micro distros that are their own 00:12:02.932 --> 00:12:06.993 composite, like mine. Like Hypervibe is now, it's a base of Nix OS. 00:12:08.032 --> 00:12:12.842 The window manager is Wayland Hyperland. And then the entire shell now from 00:12:12.842 --> 00:12:16.374 the lock screen, the login screen, everything is all QuickShell. 00:12:17.361 --> 00:12:21.703 I've built it all. I've built my entire, my desk over the last three days. 00:12:22.318 --> 00:12:26.342 Well, okay, there's a little more. And I've deployed it to all my systems with 00:12:26.342 --> 00:12:28.712 multiple different – every system has a different video card, 00:12:28.712 --> 00:12:29.777 a different monitor layout. 00:12:30.782 --> 00:12:35.762 And it's my desktop shell now. And it really wasn't – it's not like I sat down 00:12:35.762 --> 00:12:36.862 and, like, learned how to do C++. 00:12:37.816 --> 00:12:41.891 Quick shell is so straightforward, and it's so easy for agents to manage as well. 00:12:42.768 --> 00:12:47.835 Or for a person to just do, you know, by hand, all 100% human Greg created. 00:12:48.335 --> 00:12:51.062 It's approachable that way too. So it's really going to create, 00:12:51.062 --> 00:12:54.362 I believe, because we already have so many great distros, especially like when 00:12:54.362 --> 00:12:56.802 you think about the Ublues you could easily rebase on and Silverblue. 00:12:56.802 --> 00:13:01.837 There's so many great base distros out there to then just build your own layer on top of. 00:13:02.650 --> 00:13:05.993 And you'll just see people will just be hundreds, if not thousands of GitHub 00:13:06.115 --> 00:13:10.022 repos and GitLab repos out there of people just running their own distro now. 00:13:10.318 --> 00:13:13.962 And I bet, I bet if people boosted in our email, I bet you a lot of people in 00:13:13.962 --> 00:13:15.816 our audience are already doing this. 00:13:17.035 --> 00:13:20.052 And this is what's being this is what quick shell is unlocking now is this last 00:13:20.052 --> 00:13:24.432 layer this last layer of the desktop can now be completely yours or there's 00:13:24.432 --> 00:13:28.332 so many cool community spins out there you can take in i just think that's really neat. 00:13:28.332 --> 00:13:32.262 Yeah there's like a critical mass factor i like your comparison with nix right 00:13:32.262 --> 00:13:36.082 because there's a long time where nix was like okay really cool technology but 00:13:36.082 --> 00:13:37.862 if nix packages didn't really have enough, 00:13:38.562 --> 00:13:41.152 you're not going to take all the time to reboot strap your whole environment 00:13:41.152 --> 00:13:45.022 every time right so and i think that's where we're getting now. 00:13:45.022 --> 00:13:45.960 It's like Quickshell has... 00:13:47.005 --> 00:13:50.092 QML has been around for a while, right? We've had a lot of these primitives. 00:13:50.092 --> 00:13:53.982 QuickShell's now got a rich enough API and we've got so much stuff that's building 00:13:53.982 --> 00:13:57.792 on top of it and sort of figuring out some of the quirks of the system and how 00:13:57.792 --> 00:14:01.022 to wire it up robustly and it's open source. 00:14:01.022 --> 00:14:05.472 So now we just have all of these pieces that even if you can't just exactly 00:14:05.472 --> 00:14:09.362 pull the thing, most of it's going to be declared to VUI and maybe you need 00:14:09.362 --> 00:14:11.992 to fuss a little with where the data comes in and out or whatever. 00:14:12.744 --> 00:14:18.241 But that's it. And you have a bunch of examples of how to do it or reinvent yourself? 00:14:19.002 --> 00:14:21.712 This is what I wanted Plasma Widgets to be. 00:14:23.092 --> 00:14:27.332 I remember when QML was first introduced and I thought there's real potential here for all of this. 00:14:27.918 --> 00:14:31.432 The other thing I think that's moving the needle a little bit is the Omicron 00:14:31.432 --> 00:14:35.342 Foundation announced that it has become a premier sponsor of Quickshell and 00:14:35.342 --> 00:14:39.802 its lead developer, who's known publicly as Outfoxed, and the sponsorship is 00:14:39.802 --> 00:14:42.006 initially set to run for three years. 00:14:42.702 --> 00:14:46.272 They're also sponsoring Vaxery from Hyperland for, I believe, 00:14:46.732 --> 00:14:48.879 three years, perhaps, with the option to even extend that. 00:14:49.273 --> 00:14:53.872 So both the Hyperland component and the Quickshell component now have at least 00:14:53.872 --> 00:14:56.268 three years of full-time funding for development. 00:14:56.826 --> 00:14:59.763 So they're probably not slowing down because that just happened. 00:15:00.082 --> 00:15:02.592 Yeah, that means you can actually, you know, you can take some stuff off the 00:15:02.592 --> 00:15:04.422 backlog, you can plan out some 00:15:04.422 --> 00:15:07.013 months at a time to figure out what things you're going to be building. 00:15:07.449 --> 00:15:07.712 Yeah. 00:15:07.712 --> 00:15:09.032 That's an enviable position. 00:15:09.032 --> 00:15:12.142 So I feel like you're going to hear more about Quickshell, and one of the ways 00:15:12.142 --> 00:15:15.582 you're going to experience it is You'll probably see at least Plasma-based distros 00:15:15.582 --> 00:15:17.596 start shipping different QuickShell applications, 00:15:18.147 --> 00:15:20.562 not to spoil the picks, but that's another thing that's happening is people 00:15:20.562 --> 00:15:24.382 are able to also publish standalone applications using QuickShell, 00:15:24.899 --> 00:15:27.139 which is very fascinating. I played with some of those too. 00:15:27.546 --> 00:15:30.019 But I think we should talk about some of the stuff we built. Yeah. 00:15:40.546 --> 00:15:44.375 So with all that fun, we built a thing, we extended it, and well, 00:15:44.375 --> 00:15:45.934 of course, we have some notes. 00:15:46.205 --> 00:15:50.925 But before we get there, let's talk a bit more about these community plugins. 00:15:51.935 --> 00:15:54.175 I thought this was an interesting way to kind of kick things off. 00:15:54.175 --> 00:15:58.015 You know, Omar, she held this community plugin contest and awarded some cash 00:15:58.015 --> 00:16:02.460 prizes to some of the number one plugins for their platform. 00:16:02.964 --> 00:16:09.542 And can and have been pretty straightforward to just port these to my own setup. 00:16:11.035 --> 00:16:14.665 really it's not hard these are not like inherently locked into oma archie they 00:16:14.665 --> 00:16:17.655 might be designed around oma archie but they're not inherently locked in. 00:16:17.655 --> 00:16:20.715 Which is a great point because from the outside especially if you are coming 00:16:20.715 --> 00:16:24.915 from like an ohm or plasma it could be kind of hard to understand like is this 00:16:24.915 --> 00:16:29.275 compatible what parts of this can i use or not use and you're not using that 00:16:29.275 --> 00:16:31.305 you're using a different shell which we can. 00:16:31.305 --> 00:16:32.525 Talk more about yeah yeah so. 00:16:32.525 --> 00:16:35.419 I think it's a great test case because it does show like unless it's trying 00:16:35.570 --> 00:16:38.505 it helps probably that you're on the same compositor but like unless you're 00:16:38.505 --> 00:16:42.095 unless it really needs some sort of hyper specific omachi information. 00:16:42.298 --> 00:16:45.785 Or design elements right i mean they have a very unique style i like it i mean 00:16:45.785 --> 00:16:50.775 it is it is a good look uh i just it's not the shell i'm using uh but one of the number one uh, 00:16:51.595 --> 00:16:55.755 plugins is really cool it's called radio atlas and it is a plugin that allows 00:16:55.755 --> 00:16:59.705 you to rotate a globe and then little dots on the map throughout and around 00:16:59.705 --> 00:17:04.055 the world and when you click the dot it plays the radio station from that area 00:17:04.055 --> 00:17:06.510 around the world it's basically got all the radio stations, 00:17:06.992 --> 00:17:10.275 and it's just a really neat thing to have like if you like me i really enjoy 00:17:10.275 --> 00:17:14.695 trying especially around the states different local radio local tv, 00:17:15.915 --> 00:17:19.615 and it's just really well done and it's like an example of what actually is 00:17:19.615 --> 00:17:26.215 a very powerful and very nice user interface very high-end user interface that 00:17:26.215 --> 00:17:29.095 is done with this kind of simple quick shell setup. 00:17:29.435 --> 00:17:33.135 It gets it much closer to like if you were comfortable building out like a simple 00:17:33.135 --> 00:17:38.975 React UI you can now do a similar thing except it's a part of the desktop. 00:17:38.975 --> 00:17:39.528 Or you know, 00:17:40.602 --> 00:17:45.850 Claude Code can. The other one that I thought was just a great idea that I'll 00:17:45.850 --> 00:17:49.547 probably be borrowing is the Home Assistant QuickShell integration. 00:17:49.745 --> 00:17:53.910 To just be able to control different parts of your Home Assistant right there in the bar. 00:17:54.310 --> 00:17:58.080 Very, very beautifully done. Again, not necessarily locked to one particular 00:17:58.080 --> 00:18:01.400 project, which is really great. So they have some really wonderful plugins, 00:18:01.400 --> 00:18:04.054 and you can just browse them and get an idea of what people are building. 00:18:05.174 --> 00:18:08.332 And I did that. And I found one called SyncShell. 00:18:08.594 --> 00:18:10.352 Oh, okay. 00:18:10.631 --> 00:18:16.082 Sync Shell is a health and monitoring widget for Sync Thing. 00:18:17.144 --> 00:18:20.772 And you can control and install or control service, pause syncing, things like that. 00:18:21.022 --> 00:18:24.598 And as we know, you've recently recommitted to our dear Sync Thing. 00:18:24.766 --> 00:18:29.040 That's right. So this one was built. Sync Shell is built for Oma Archie, 00:18:29.040 --> 00:18:31.830 although the project does stay. You know, we're totally open to expanding in 00:18:31.830 --> 00:18:33.740 the future. So I may link them what I did. 00:18:34.152 --> 00:18:39.568 Because I have built my shell around Dank Linux, the DMS shell. 00:18:39.922 --> 00:18:45.250 Dank Shell is beautiful. So I took a lot of my design from Dank Shell, 00:18:45.250 --> 00:18:51.799 which is, you know, it's like a it's a community made desktop for Sway, 00:18:52.019 --> 00:18:54.452 really any Wayland, any Wayland desktop. 00:18:54.876 --> 00:18:59.860 And it's beautiful. It's so gorgeous. It's so nice. And so I just sort of like 00:18:59.860 --> 00:19:04.860 aped all of this and then wanted to create a SyncThing widget that matches that design. 00:19:05.191 --> 00:19:08.110 And I'm going to publish this. So if you end up playing around with this listener 00:19:08.110 --> 00:19:11.100 and you also use sync thing and you would like a sync thing widget for your 00:19:11.100 --> 00:19:14.258 dank desktop, I will publish this in the show notes. 00:19:14.653 --> 00:19:20.880 I have made sync shell and it is kind of my, you know, quick copy. 00:19:20.880 --> 00:19:23.710 This is a read only version. It tells you the current status of things, 00:19:23.710 --> 00:19:26.848 where they're synced, how much space is transferred, where what's left. 00:19:27.284 --> 00:19:31.610 You can see I have 73 gigabytes indexed across 11 folders. And I'm currently 00:19:31.610 --> 00:19:33.750 updating this week in Bitcoin. And... 00:19:35.022 --> 00:19:39.346 It's QML, JavaScript, and a little Nix language so I can get it easily going on my host. 00:19:39.590 --> 00:19:42.789 Nice. See, and this is great, too, because you've already tried experimenting 00:19:42.789 --> 00:19:44.385 with, like, can I have this? 00:19:45.070 --> 00:19:48.349 One thing I'm excited about here is the composability, right? 00:19:48.349 --> 00:19:51.019 So you can just sort of publish this. It's just some bits. You don't really 00:19:51.019 --> 00:19:53.992 need to compile anything or do any complicated build. 00:19:54.521 --> 00:19:57.619 And so you can have a simple Nix package that kind of just puts the bits on 00:19:57.619 --> 00:19:59.641 disk and then pull them in the right spot. 00:19:59.977 --> 00:20:05.126 And it's really good at handling various monitor layouts and panel size differences. 00:20:05.329 --> 00:20:09.029 which has been really, really nice because I have really weird esoteric vertical 00:20:09.029 --> 00:20:14.165 monitors and every monitor has a different resolution in some systems. It's really crazy. 00:20:14.780 --> 00:20:18.139 So it's been nice to build something because I have one Nix config for all these 00:20:18.139 --> 00:20:21.179 hosts. So it's really nice to be able to build something that does work across 00:20:21.179 --> 00:20:22.675 multiple hosts but is still adaptive. 00:20:22.829 --> 00:20:26.459 You can have customizations but it's not like a crazy thing where you're constantly 00:20:26.459 --> 00:20:28.799 duplicating everything and having to do a bunch of jank. 00:20:28.799 --> 00:20:33.519 I really like that. It feels like mine too in a way that I wasn't really missing 00:20:33.519 --> 00:20:36.059 some of this stuff but now that I have it, I don't think I can go back. 00:20:36.929 --> 00:20:40.006 It is still sort of feels early. It is kind of easy every now and then to like, 00:20:40.523 --> 00:20:44.809 slip into an accidental like CPU loop where it's like eating a lot of CPU because 00:20:45.149 --> 00:20:47.529 something in the bar didn't render correctly. And it takes me a minute to catch 00:20:47.529 --> 00:20:50.507 that. But that's my own foot gun. Not inherent to quick show. 00:20:51.192 --> 00:20:52.979 Did you have anything you built or play around with? 00:20:52.979 --> 00:20:56.318 I did. Yeah. So, okay. One thing I find fascinating here is. 00:20:57.160 --> 00:21:01.549 because there's this connection with, you know, drawing UIs, 00:21:01.775 --> 00:21:05.467 the flip side of that, which has become quite the study in the web world, 00:21:05.751 --> 00:21:07.777 is like you need state management, right? 00:21:07.777 --> 00:21:10.680 So like you have the UI, but the UI is displaying state, which could be, 00:21:11.045 --> 00:21:13.807 you know, the external state of your sync thing, or it could be like where the 00:21:13.807 --> 00:21:15.807 windows are and which windows exist and how many workshops you have. 00:21:16.207 --> 00:21:17.047 But what's the source of truth kind of thing? 00:21:17.047 --> 00:21:17.417 Yes. 00:21:17.417 --> 00:21:17.757 Okay. 00:21:17.757 --> 00:21:21.787 And different desktops have taken different paths on some of this, right? 00:21:21.787 --> 00:21:22.077 Yeah, yeah. 00:21:22.077 --> 00:21:27.247 So like the stuff that this latest Omachi is doing is really like QML QuickShell 00:21:27.247 --> 00:21:31.177 native, where it's all there. It's just one tree. The state lives mostly in 00:21:31.177 --> 00:21:33.962 that system besides like some config files on disk. 00:21:34.450 --> 00:21:38.157 But DankMaterialShell kind of took a different path. They have a separate Go 00:21:38.157 --> 00:21:40.527 daemon that sort of does a lot of the stuff under the hood. 00:21:40.527 --> 00:21:40.876 Yeah. 00:21:41.010 --> 00:21:45.107 And then QML talks to it over two different sockets. One's like a request response. 00:21:45.107 --> 00:21:47.796 And then the other one, it sort of subscribes for updates. 00:21:48.115 --> 00:21:53.437 And so the Go daemon can kind of own a bunch of the state. and then QML ends 00:21:53.437 --> 00:21:55.487 up being used sort of as the presentation layer. 00:21:55.650 --> 00:21:59.357 That's one of the things that actually drew me to Dank. I mean, 00:21:59.357 --> 00:22:01.727 because you need something that's doing that management and that dispatch. 00:22:01.727 --> 00:22:02.867 I thought that was a good way to do it. 00:22:02.867 --> 00:22:06.296 Yeah, absolutely. And what's fun is you get various sort of like there's different, 00:22:06.459 --> 00:22:10.287 it fits into sort of theoretical computer science because there's just various 00:22:10.287 --> 00:22:13.777 ways of managing state and various ways of handling and updating UIs. 00:22:13.777 --> 00:22:17.647 And so you get, QML handles a certain amount of it and then everything else, 00:22:17.647 --> 00:22:20.767 you get to see this sort of plethora of different open source takes, 00:22:20.767 --> 00:22:25.777 right? So there's like Celestia, they compile a C++ plugin that they load, 00:22:25.777 --> 00:22:27.170 and that's where the config lives. 00:22:28.227 --> 00:22:31.747 There's a bunch of different use cases. Some folks even like Noctalia used to 00:22:31.747 --> 00:22:35.233 use QuickShell, but now they're just going C++ native entirely. 00:22:35.819 --> 00:22:41.677 Yeah. So I decided I'd build my own shell, kind of inspired by what Dank is doing. 00:22:41.677 --> 00:22:44.753 Oh, this is exciting. Brent, what do you think? Okay, Brent. 00:22:45.020 --> 00:22:49.827 Brent, what is Wes's desktop shell? What are the key things that Wes has to 00:22:49.827 --> 00:22:51.394 have on his desktop shell? What do you think? 00:22:52.057 --> 00:22:54.017 app launcher probably maybe you. 00:22:54.017 --> 00:22:57.767 Know i think he's gonna hide that i think is he's gonna get to an app launcher 00:22:57.767 --> 00:23:00.637 with the keyboard shortcuts but right but i mean and. 00:23:00.637 --> 00:23:02.732 I guess you could use another one too you don't have to build one. 00:23:03.377 --> 00:23:08.687 He wants a bunch of visibility into like multitasking i think so similar like 00:23:08.687 --> 00:23:12.857 pinning your tabs in your you know browser some people do this i hear i bet 00:23:12.857 --> 00:23:16.197 you he has like a sidebar or something where you can see the progress of, 00:23:16.997 --> 00:23:21.167 everything that's going on at a glance and then you know keyboard shortcuts 00:23:21.167 --> 00:23:22.857 to quickly move to them uh you should. 00:23:22.857 --> 00:23:23.777 Call it the pain bench. 00:23:25.341 --> 00:23:26.057 I like what. 00:23:26.057 --> 00:23:27.257 You guys are crafting for me. 00:23:27.257 --> 00:23:31.377 Can you write some of this down someone recorded right well. 00:23:31.377 --> 00:23:35.417 I'm thinking i'm thinking like uh it depends on how far you want to go right 00:23:35.417 --> 00:23:40.260 because oh man you could build one that has like a wi-fi network manager interface you, 00:23:42.071 --> 00:23:44.891 Why not have a button that executes K-Exec? You could just have that. 00:23:44.891 --> 00:23:48.591 Oh, I don't have that yet. K-Exec on the fly. Okay, so tell us, what is your desktop? 00:23:49.211 --> 00:23:52.231 What is it? Well, so right now it's super minimal. I went with Neary as the 00:23:52.631 --> 00:23:56.293 scrollable Wayland compositor under the hood. Nice. 00:23:56.688 --> 00:24:00.391 And then on top of that, well, naturally because it's me, I have a Clojure Babashka 00:24:00.391 --> 00:24:05.161 program, and it's serving the role of that Go program. So it's sort of the state 00:24:05.161 --> 00:24:08.118 manager and the brain, and then it subscribes. 00:24:08.374 --> 00:24:12.371 Neary has an event socket, And so you talk to that. The first thing is it pushes 00:24:12.371 --> 00:24:14.347 the current state of everything it knows. 00:24:14.655 --> 00:24:17.851 And then after that, it will send events whenever you do stuff, 00:24:17.851 --> 00:24:19.958 right? You click or you move windows or you do whatever. 00:24:20.121 --> 00:24:20.661 This guy. 00:24:20.661 --> 00:24:21.211 And then so, 00:24:23.250 --> 00:24:25.011 the brain just gets those and. 00:24:25.011 --> 00:24:28.651 Sort of- So Neri's doing that inherently and you're just writing on top of that? 00:24:28.651 --> 00:24:29.741 Yeah, so it subscribes. 00:24:29.741 --> 00:24:30.471 Oh, that's great. 00:24:30.471 --> 00:24:34.831 So anytime you know, like if I like click a button that takes me to Workshop 00:24:34.831 --> 00:24:38.351 2 or Workspace 2, that sends an event that says that, right? 00:24:38.351 --> 00:24:42.047 And then so the Clojure program does what's known as like a reduce or a fold. 00:24:42.337 --> 00:24:45.351 So every time it gets an event, it just updates state, right? 00:24:45.351 --> 00:24:47.661 It says like, oh, I know that what changed. Let me keep track of it. 00:24:48.188 --> 00:24:54.371 And then anytime you have an update, you render out now what the state looks 00:24:54.371 --> 00:24:56.072 like, right? And so that gets pushed. 00:24:56.239 --> 00:24:57.591 You could do it over a socket or 00:24:57.591 --> 00:24:59.746 I'm just doing a file right now because I don't have that much in there. 00:25:00.135 --> 00:25:03.578 So it has opportunity there to update the state. 00:25:03.693 --> 00:25:07.241 It controls that and it can fire off events or whatever and actions that are 00:25:07.241 --> 00:25:11.451 needed when you see like, oh this thing changed sure what do I need to do and then, 00:25:11.911 --> 00:25:16.331 QML is set up to be the rendering side so it reads the state.json file and then 00:25:16.331 --> 00:25:19.211 that has everything it needs to display everything of course and then source 00:25:19.211 --> 00:25:23.591 of truth just like a lot of these are doing um QuickShell has an IPC 00:25:24.031 --> 00:25:27.541 that you can talk to right so essentially it then triggers things in QuickShell 00:25:27.541 --> 00:25:31.031 so like when you click one of the things it had to build was like a little workspace 00:25:31.031 --> 00:25:33.951 switcher yeah there's also basic stuff for just being able to click and see 00:25:33.951 --> 00:25:35.805 what windows are open and click on those. 00:25:36.078 --> 00:25:37.771 Okay so you got a window switcher. 00:25:38.291 --> 00:25:39.445 And so that took, 00:25:40.350 --> 00:25:45.067 all of that loop to be able to work right um and so i was trying to figure out 00:25:45.067 --> 00:25:47.212 like what exactly all do you need 00:25:47.600 --> 00:25:51.807 um so that gave me like a very basic i've got my clock i've got my very basic 00:25:51.807 --> 00:25:55.167 window controls right everything working there uh and then of course i had to 00:25:55.167 --> 00:25:59.367 add basic system monitoring right so like live cpu and disk and networking. 00:25:59.367 --> 00:26:02.471 Nice oh i didn't think you'd do monitoring that's cool uh. 00:26:02.837 --> 00:26:07.767 And then uh i figured you know because in case brantley wanted to use any of 00:26:07.767 --> 00:26:12.727 this i did add a little monitor that tells me the Firefox windows I have open 00:26:12.727 --> 00:26:14.077 and how many tabs they have in each of them. 00:26:14.477 --> 00:26:15.437 Called it. Good call. 00:26:17.233 --> 00:26:21.000 And then I did also build a cute little power profile switcher. 00:26:21.198 --> 00:26:21.620 Oh, yeah. 00:26:21.620 --> 00:26:23.420 So you can kind of just click that and toggle it. 00:26:23.420 --> 00:26:24.160 And you know it works. 00:26:24.971 --> 00:26:28.030 And then the fanciest thing I've built so far, because a lot of this was just 00:26:28.030 --> 00:26:30.620 trying to get the underlying architecture to work at all and be like an actual 00:26:30.620 --> 00:26:36.170 desktop I could use without having to switch back, is a little open code session viewer. 00:26:36.170 --> 00:26:37.680 I was thinking about building one of those. 00:26:37.680 --> 00:26:42.210 So it tells me I have 11 sessions over the last 24 hours, 32 million tokens, 00:26:42.210 --> 00:26:44.350 you know, and then it tells me like how much I've spent. and then you click 00:26:44.350 --> 00:26:47.910 it and this took a little bit, you know, to make work. It's not very, 00:26:47.910 --> 00:26:52.020 it's not fancy yet, but you click it and it drops down and it shows you like the most recent ones. 00:26:52.020 --> 00:26:52.440 Oh, I love it. 00:26:52.440 --> 00:26:52.810 Yeah. 00:26:52.810 --> 00:26:58.180 And their title. Yeah. That's great. So to sort of double down on that point, 00:26:58.180 --> 00:27:01.270 we're talking about a lot like building your desktop and creating a shell and 00:27:01.270 --> 00:27:05.031 replacing Plasma or GNOME, but you could just build that widget. 00:27:05.350 --> 00:27:05.690 Yeah. 00:27:05.690 --> 00:27:08.540 And you could just use it on whatever desktop you'd like today. 00:27:08.540 --> 00:27:10.400 You do not need to replace the entire shell. 00:27:10.400 --> 00:27:13.250 So if you just want a widget for a thing that's unique to you, 00:27:13.250 --> 00:27:15.600 Like I was kind of joking in the intro, you could turn your dashboard, 00:27:15.600 --> 00:27:19.190 you could turn your desktop into a dashboard because you could just build like 00:27:19.190 --> 00:27:21.313 I built a sync thing. You built an open code thing. 00:27:21.626 --> 00:27:23.800 They don't require that you build your whole shell. 00:27:24.360 --> 00:27:26.990 You could actually just make them plasma widgets or you could make them a little 00:27:26.990 --> 00:27:29.500 application on Gnome or whatever you want to use. 00:27:29.500 --> 00:27:35.220 And like you could, like in my version, I'm having the Clojure program go and 00:27:35.220 --> 00:27:37.010 fetch the data and then write it into the state. 00:27:37.010 --> 00:27:41.330 But the rest of that, like the downstream UI part, you could just take, 00:27:41.330 --> 00:27:43.830 right? Because none of that needs to change. You just have to fill in the gap 00:27:43.830 --> 00:27:45.200 with how you want to provide the information. 00:27:45.200 --> 00:27:46.164 The info, yep, yep, yep. 00:27:46.774 --> 00:27:51.980 I feel like with our modern tools, we're starting to see a shift towards deep customization. 00:27:52.380 --> 00:27:56.440 If you look at a tool like OpenCode, for instance, you can modify it as much 00:27:56.440 --> 00:28:02.035 as you want to be your own very personalized, esoteric workspace. 00:28:02.610 --> 00:28:07.400 And this QuickShell stuff and this entire conversation and Wes's beginnings 00:28:07.400 --> 00:28:12.540 of his customizations just reminds me that we all get to have our own distinct 00:28:12.540 --> 00:28:14.073 computing environments now and it's, 00:28:14.584 --> 00:28:16.680 this is what we've always wanted and everybody's always wanted, 00:28:16.680 --> 00:28:18.293 it's been too hard to attain, but, 00:28:19.083 --> 00:28:21.842 I don't know. This year just feels like everybody gets a desktop. 00:28:21.842 --> 00:28:25.596 You get a desktop and you get a desktop. You just get whatever you want. It's great. 00:28:26.374 --> 00:28:31.082 It was also really easy to port the widgets I had built for my Waybar over to 00:28:31.082 --> 00:28:33.502 QuickShell. It took seconds. 00:28:33.502 --> 00:28:36.192 I wanted to ask you about that because you had been using Waybar before. 00:28:36.892 --> 00:28:40.482 One version of what you can think of QuickShell is sort of as a Waybar replacement. 00:28:40.482 --> 00:28:45.954 On steroids. I also really like the launcher that Dank chose and built. It's really good. 00:28:46.392 --> 00:28:48.485 And one of the plug-ins is Nick's Run. 00:28:48.955 --> 00:28:52.961 So if I type Nix and the name of a package, it searches Nix packages, 00:28:53.164 --> 00:28:56.362 gives me a list, and then I just hit it, and it just runs it from the repository 00:28:56.362 --> 00:28:58.000 immediately and launches the application. 00:28:58.737 --> 00:29:02.220 It's really next level. So I love it. I love it. 00:29:02.992 --> 00:29:05.872 And, yeah, look at that. Oh, Wes just posted a picture. Actually, 00:29:05.872 --> 00:29:07.012 Wes, it looks really good. 00:29:07.732 --> 00:29:10.782 See, I kind of went for more, like, bubbly kind of pill widgets on mine, 00:29:10.782 --> 00:29:14.965 but you went for, like, a clean text bar, which I think also looks really good. 00:29:16.080 --> 00:29:18.762 Oh, yeah, that's nice looking, Wes. Clean, minimal. 00:29:18.959 --> 00:29:21.882 Yeah, and I want to play more with doing more theme stuff. I just kind of got 00:29:21.882 --> 00:29:27.132 it across to like, what's the minimum thing I could actually use today without hating it, right? 00:29:27.132 --> 00:29:31.482 Yeah. I think that looks very good. What are you, Brent, right? You impressed? 00:29:31.482 --> 00:29:34.572 Yeah, I'm trying to wonder, like, Wes, when are you going to publish this for 00:29:34.572 --> 00:29:37.657 us to all play with? Because I feel like there's some real gems here. 00:29:38.970 --> 00:29:42.897 It's fun. It's also getting to play with this stuff and just like you were saying, 00:29:42.897 --> 00:29:45.495 in a deeper way and building this whole thing. 00:29:45.698 --> 00:29:49.518 There's a lot. I've played with tiling window managers over the years. 00:29:50.226 --> 00:29:53.927 I've never gone this deep. And it was a great excuse to understand more of what 00:29:53.927 --> 00:29:58.327 are some of the options because it opens our software, right? 00:29:58.327 --> 00:29:59.491 You dive in and there's... 00:30:00.530 --> 00:30:03.055 Like all the good things, there's so much you didn't know you didn't know. 00:30:03.542 --> 00:30:07.427 Well, as my kids would say, I'm so cooked now because between Quickshell and 00:30:07.427 --> 00:30:11.417 Hyperland, It really is the perfect sweet spot for me now. 00:30:11.417 --> 00:30:14.437 I just can't ever, I mean, I love all the desktop environments, 00:30:14.437 --> 00:30:16.927 but for like my production systems where I'm working and sitting there doing 00:30:16.927 --> 00:30:21.347 show prep, I have built such a workflow around the keybinds and now with the 00:30:21.347 --> 00:30:23.412 quickshell stuff, it's so good. 00:30:23.986 --> 00:30:28.851 It really is, it is a unique kind of lock-in. I have created my own lock-in 00:30:29.251 --> 00:30:30.552 and I love it. I couldn't be happier. 00:30:30.900 --> 00:30:34.237 And so even if you just use it to create a simple widget or you use it to try 00:30:34.237 --> 00:30:36.877 out a lot of the really neat desktop shells or build your own, 00:30:36.877 --> 00:30:39.847 And I think you're going to be hearing a lot more about QuickShell for many, 00:30:39.847 --> 00:30:42.696 many reasons. And so it really blew up over the summer. 00:30:42.806 --> 00:30:45.807 And we just kind of wanted to give you a heads up and give you a little information 00:30:45.807 --> 00:30:49.157 about what's going on. And if you built something or have built or build something 00:30:49.157 --> 00:30:50.736 with it, you've got to let us know. 00:31:03.169 --> 00:31:08.196 Once again, this week, we have some red hot feedback. This one from definitely not a Mac user. 00:31:08.881 --> 00:31:11.708 I don't know what they like, but they definitely don't like a Mac, I guess. 00:31:12.236 --> 00:31:17.054 Hey, JB team, too long for just a boost. So I'm yapping here on the email. 00:31:17.449 --> 00:31:21.676 My dad and I just finished up a road trip across the country from Columbus, 00:31:21.676 --> 00:31:25.094 Ohio to LA for college. Oh, that sounds fun. 00:31:25.698 --> 00:31:28.891 And as you do, we realized we needed to plan this trip. 00:31:29.477 --> 00:31:34.922 I found a tool called Trek, and it so happens you featured this on episode 680. 00:31:36.016 --> 00:31:41.026 Seeing as it has an MCP naturally, my dad and I each hooked up our own clankers 00:31:41.026 --> 00:31:43.426 to it, and oh boy, is that the way to do trips. 00:31:44.042 --> 00:31:47.276 As if we needed to complicate it further, we hooked up Devarich, 00:31:47.276 --> 00:31:53.536 remember the big D, and Imich to make a timeline for our trip on Trek to keep, 00:31:54.056 --> 00:31:57.480 the memories after we get there. That's so smart. 00:31:58.003 --> 00:31:58.804 String it all together. 00:31:58.966 --> 00:32:04.076 We used GPT and Claude models to make the rough skeleton before we left on the trip. 00:32:04.396 --> 00:32:07.893 This put in places we wanted to stop and the routes to get there. 00:32:08.311 --> 00:32:14.366 But once we left, we used Hermes agents only. Shout out to Quinn 2.7+. 00:32:14.877 --> 00:32:18.096 My dad would book a hotel, give his agent the booking confirmation number, 00:32:18.096 --> 00:32:22.928 and my agent would send me the Google Map link and suggest a good dinner spot nearby. 00:32:23.485 --> 00:32:28.796 Hermes also managed our time so we could visit the Gateway Arch and Arches National 00:32:28.796 --> 00:32:30.573 Park. Yes, yes, we like Arches. 00:32:31.020 --> 00:32:36.082 While also making tracks across the country to make sure we get to the check-in on time. 00:32:36.877 --> 00:32:41.121 This whole trip was made so much easier by combining all of those tools. 00:32:41.121 --> 00:32:46.269 Imagine how many people contributed to this trip from the open source community. Wow. 00:32:46.942 --> 00:32:51.261 All the time we saved in planning, let my dad start to catch up on Linux Unplugged 00:32:51.261 --> 00:32:56.181 episodes, as well as time to argue about the relative merits of supporting legacy 00:32:56.181 --> 00:32:59.676 and outdated protocols in the kernel, such as AppleTalk. 00:33:00.117 --> 00:33:04.661 Yeah, buddy. So definitely not a Mac user. I have a couple of hot tips for you 00:33:04.661 --> 00:33:07.374 because you can probably guess I have done something very similar. 00:33:07.948 --> 00:33:12.341 And I would very much recommend, it's free to do, to sign up for the TomTom 00:33:12.341 --> 00:33:19.107 developer API because this gives your bot super routing powers. It knows about outages. 00:33:19.483 --> 00:33:23.233 It knows about closures. It knows about weather. It knows about traffic. 00:33:23.820 --> 00:33:28.151 It also can do route distance and planning and they have an endpoint if you 00:33:28.151 --> 00:33:31.586 have an EV. So it can do range calculation as well. 00:33:32.109 --> 00:33:36.751 Then if you really want to go nuts, most states or like up in Canada provinces 00:33:36.751 --> 00:33:40.840 and areas will have developer APIs for their local traffic information. 00:33:41.223 --> 00:33:45.774 So for me, I'm very often in the Washington, Idaho, Oregon or B.C. area. 00:33:46.145 --> 00:33:50.708 So I signed up for APIs for each one of those and I can check their particular closures when routing. 00:33:51.138 --> 00:33:55.791 Then on top of that, if you really want to go crazy, you can also tie into things 00:33:55.791 --> 00:34:00.018 like free campsites.net and other services like recreation.gov. 00:34:00.297 --> 00:34:03.205 and it can actually do availability planning and checking. 00:34:03.536 --> 00:34:07.751 So you can bring it all together and you can have it produce quite the comprehensive 00:34:07.751 --> 00:34:10.264 plan. I just went on a trip to Idaho over the weekend. 00:34:11.407 --> 00:34:14.896 The entire thing was generated by my agent. And then for consumption by the 00:34:14.896 --> 00:34:19.336 wife, I had to produce a PDF, which she loved. And it just broke everything 00:34:19.336 --> 00:34:21.916 down day by day where we're going to stop, where if you wanted to, 00:34:21.916 --> 00:34:24.016 if you don't want to stop there, you could stop here. You'll have this much 00:34:24.016 --> 00:34:25.502 battery charge when you arrive. 00:34:25.827 --> 00:34:27.505 These are the food places nearby. 00:34:28.079 --> 00:34:31.951 These are the campgrounds that allow you to stay one night. You can book late. 00:34:32.154 --> 00:34:34.703 They let you park and sleep in a car, like all the stuff. 00:34:35.289 --> 00:34:38.586 It just does all the stuff. Oh, and it'll even tell me because this is a problem 00:34:38.586 --> 00:34:42.576 here. It'll tell me like how close I'm going to get to wildfires along my route 00:34:42.576 --> 00:34:45.541 because I'm checking all the wildfire information as well. 00:34:46.353 --> 00:34:50.126 And it just produces such an awesome comprehensive. This is coming from somebody 00:34:50.126 --> 00:34:52.956 who's a road trip enthusiast, right? I mean, I've been doing this for a long 00:34:52.956 --> 00:34:54.283 time and this is all stuff I had to do. 00:34:55.156 --> 00:34:59.596 You can even have a check in on cellular coverage. I mean, in other words, 00:34:59.596 --> 00:35:03.256 keep going because it just keeps getting better and better. It's really pretty great. 00:35:03.256 --> 00:35:07.697 Can we just have an API for everything? Finally, maybe I would book my trips in advance. 00:35:09.851 --> 00:35:11.936 Yeah, but then you also have to do what the agent tells you, 00:35:11.936 --> 00:35:15.976 and that's the human factor. All right, well, we do have some boosts, 00:35:15.976 --> 00:35:17.635 too, so let's get to those, gentlemen. 00:35:22.100 --> 00:35:27.789 And Greg, the lawyer, comes in with 40,000 sats. Greg, you're back again. Look at you. 00:35:31.104 --> 00:35:35.527 And Greg comes in with one message. He comes in with boost. 00:35:35.974 --> 00:35:39.847 Love it, Greg. Thank you very much. Greg, you're often on the top of the list 00:35:39.847 --> 00:35:43.799 there, and it doesn't go unnoticed. We appreciate it very, very much. 00:35:44.635 --> 00:35:48.972 You, sir, are the baller booster of the show. Appreciate you. 00:35:49.552 --> 00:35:52.647 Hey, speaking of PJ and his B-Day. 00:35:52.647 --> 00:35:57.667 Oh, we got a birthday booster. Except this was actually a boost from last week's live. 00:35:57.667 --> 00:36:01.155 Oh, really? Coming in live so early but late? 00:36:01.712 --> 00:36:07.267 All right. Do we have a sound for 8,888 sats? How about that? 00:36:07.807 --> 00:36:11.947 Yeah, PJ says, does this thing work? And yes, it does. I guess on a delay this 00:36:11.947 --> 00:36:13.717 time because we were not watching live. 00:36:13.717 --> 00:36:14.307 But thank you. 00:36:14.727 --> 00:36:15.867 It's fun to get live boosts. 00:36:15.867 --> 00:36:17.902 Thank you, PJ. Thank you. Yeah. 00:36:18.750 --> 00:36:22.076 Well, Colarapha boosts in a row of ducks. 00:36:23.736 --> 00:36:25.227 Colaphora? No. 00:36:25.547 --> 00:36:26.262 Colarapha? 00:36:26.668 --> 00:36:27.507 Colaphora. 00:36:27.507 --> 00:36:31.967 That ain't right. No message, just value. We take that. Thank you very, 00:36:31.967 --> 00:36:33.257 very much. Appreciate that. 00:36:33.791 --> 00:36:38.317 All right. Next boost comes in from Nyquist, which almost sounds like the drive 00:36:38.317 --> 00:36:41.267 I used to use. Is that, are you Nyquist? Are you referring to the old Nyquist 00:36:41.267 --> 00:36:42.858 drive? Cause that would be awesome. 00:36:43.305 --> 00:36:45.517 Also no message though, just the value. 00:36:48.884 --> 00:36:51.229 Sir, Omlet comes in with a row of ducks. 00:36:51.862 --> 00:36:52.290 Hey! 00:36:52.290 --> 00:36:54.980 When I hear SyncThing, I just have to boost in. 00:36:54.980 --> 00:36:55.890 All right! 00:36:55.890 --> 00:36:56.841 Such a game changer. 00:36:57.207 --> 00:37:00.130 Isn't it? Some projects out there just don't get enough love, 00:37:00.130 --> 00:37:02.410 and that's where we're like, no, we've got to talk about this. 00:37:02.410 --> 00:37:04.890 I know people know about SyncThing, but it just doesn't get enough talk. 00:37:05.589 --> 00:37:08.990 At Chris, I enjoyed the irony of recommending it because there's no cloud, 00:37:08.990 --> 00:37:12.996 and then pointing a free cloud-hosted LLM at it, but I do agree, the API is great. 00:37:14.030 --> 00:37:18.848 On the topic of web and thin clients, Maybe check out a file browser fork. 00:37:19.771 --> 00:37:23.190 And then Bearded Tech independently also recommended, I think, 00:37:23.190 --> 00:37:26.960 there's like a maintained fork called Quantum File Browser or something like that. 00:37:26.960 --> 00:37:30.960 Yeah. Yeah. So because the question was is like, how do we stack like a file 00:37:30.960 --> 00:37:32.727 manager or something on top of this? 00:37:33.436 --> 00:37:37.000 So that way when you're on a mobile device, you could get to these files or 00:37:37.000 --> 00:37:39.220 maybe you're on a computer that doesn't have sync thing installed, 00:37:39.220 --> 00:37:40.470 but you're on your machine. 00:37:40.470 --> 00:37:42.860 You just want to quickly download or maybe even upload something. Yeah. 00:37:42.860 --> 00:37:45.250 So this is File Browser Quantum. 00:37:47.548 --> 00:37:53.240 that's pretty cool that's pretty cool mostly Go and it is Apache 2.0 licensed. 00:37:53.240 --> 00:37:55.890 Yeah another option would be something like Copy Party which is also in that 00:37:55.890 --> 00:37:58.250 space so there's a few different things that maybe we should be. 00:37:58.250 --> 00:38:01.270 Trying I need to try something I do because that is going to be that's going 00:38:01.270 --> 00:38:04.650 to be one of those things if I don't set it up when I do need it I'm really going to be kicking. 00:38:07.310 --> 00:38:11.526 Well speaking of omelets Outdoor Geek is here with 5000 Sats, 00:38:14.294 --> 00:38:20.418 here's a psa avoid the hp 840 g9 12th gen intel for linux, 00:38:21.144 --> 00:38:26.372 i couldn't get any sort of low power state working on this thing oh sleep battery 00:38:26.372 --> 00:38:32.432 drain is more than 10 per hour on linux on windows however it's less than one percent. 00:38:32.432 --> 00:38:33.694 Oh that's annoying. 00:38:33.839 --> 00:38:38.912 I tried nix os pop os and fedora i put maybe eight hours of troubleshooting 00:38:38.912 --> 00:38:42.657 into this thing about two months ago but nothing made this thing better. 00:38:43.307 --> 00:38:46.802 Oh well you you definitely tried you gotta give credit for that hp. 00:38:47.442 --> 00:38:50.582 840 g9 12th gen intel he says. 00:38:51.375 --> 00:38:52.762 Well if anyone knows any tricks. 00:38:53.087 --> 00:38:56.252 I just haven't been able to pull the trigger on a used laptop it's just such 00:38:56.252 --> 00:38:58.056 a bad time to buy a computer right now. 00:38:58.468 --> 00:39:04.602 This is a bit on theme for me this week because i uh as most of you might remember 00:39:04.602 --> 00:39:09.282 i just moved recently and so somehow the dev1 came out of box this week and 00:39:09.282 --> 00:39:12.612 i plugged it in i was like wait a second this thing's charging 100% all the time. 00:39:12.612 --> 00:39:16.400 I need to just set this thing maybe to something lower, because I mostly use it on desktop. 00:39:16.969 --> 00:39:17.445 Nope. 00:39:17.602 --> 00:39:20.522 Can't do that. Did a ton of research. Nope. 00:39:20.881 --> 00:39:26.342 None of the kernel for this thing just can't handle it. There is a PR to allow 00:39:26.342 --> 00:39:28.432 it to happen, but who knows how long that's going to take. Yeah, 00:39:28.432 --> 00:39:31.023 I was very surprised. Very, very surprised. 00:39:32.062 --> 00:39:36.160 Even TLP can't do it on this thing. Nope. Not going to happen for this one. 00:39:37.542 --> 00:39:40.562 Okay, I got a suggestion. You set up Home Assistant. 00:39:41.216 --> 00:39:44.372 you get a little sensor on there that monitors the battery charge then you put 00:39:44.372 --> 00:39:47.722 your charger on a smart switch the smart switch gets toggled by home assistant 00:39:47.722 --> 00:39:50.962 when you reach 80% home assistant turns off the smart switch and then when you 00:39:50.962 --> 00:39:54.735 reach 60% home assistant turns it back on the digital world fails you? 00:39:55.019 --> 00:39:57.622 Go to the analog via the digital control. 00:39:57.962 --> 00:40:04.622 MRAM comes in with a row of ducks 2,222 cents first time booster wow that's 00:40:04.622 --> 00:40:06.983 awesome thank you for boosting, 00:40:08.453 --> 00:40:09.347 I like RAM. 00:40:11.466 --> 00:40:12.273 Appreciate the value. 00:40:13.132 --> 00:40:17.637 Too Many Accounts comes in with 11,337 sets. 00:40:19.099 --> 00:40:23.315 Picking up the Firefox thread here, I'd love your take on how to handle multiple 00:40:23.315 --> 00:40:25.145 Firefox profiles elegantly. 00:40:25.865 --> 00:40:30.593 Firefox now ships to profile managers, but both lack the ease of Chrome profiles, 00:40:31.093 --> 00:40:34.605 for a GUI file like me. I love hate, my foxy friend. 00:40:36.585 --> 00:40:40.725 So I just randomly did see that old, like there's like two versions and one 00:40:40.725 --> 00:40:45.295 of them look real old. Like the original one from early days of Firefox. 00:40:45.295 --> 00:40:47.641 I was surprised that that UI had popped up. 00:40:48.865 --> 00:40:54.828 I don't do the profiles thing anymore. I have messed around a bit with containers. 00:40:55.170 --> 00:40:56.645 Ah, yeah, I have done that too. 00:40:56.778 --> 00:40:59.595 And I do find that to be kind of useful and tab groups. 00:40:59.595 --> 00:41:01.855 Right. Yeah, I've used containers, especially for things like, 00:41:01.855 --> 00:41:04.885 you know, you have like a day job or a particular account associated for something like that. 00:41:05.185 --> 00:41:08.069 That I think works better than individual profiles personally. 00:41:08.191 --> 00:41:13.115 But we may not be addressing what you use profiles for. I'm kind of curious what you need them to do. 00:41:13.115 --> 00:41:18.525 And have you tried that? that because i i don't know it's it's like you've probably 00:41:18.525 --> 00:41:21.008 seen it once before maybe you took it off your menu bar kind of like when you 00:41:21.339 --> 00:41:22.825 when they first added it they kept popping up, 00:41:23.365 --> 00:41:26.375 every few updates and first i was like i'll get this out of here i don't want 00:41:26.375 --> 00:41:29.005 i don't care about this but then i actually like stopped and used it and i actually 00:41:29.005 --> 00:41:29.751 found it pretty effective. 00:41:30.725 --> 00:41:34.585 I haven't quite used the chrome profile switcher so i'm not sure which features 00:41:34.585 --> 00:41:39.085 uh you love about it but i do remember using profiles in the past and i found 00:41:39.085 --> 00:41:41.291 the easiest way to use it was to have a distinct, 00:41:43.489 --> 00:41:44.545 shortcut icon. 00:41:44.545 --> 00:41:46.085 For them that would just. 00:41:46.585 --> 00:41:51.285 Launch that one and that seemed to be the easiest way to manage it just outside of the browser. 00:41:51.285 --> 00:41:58.075 Itself. Usually it's just a pending, a profile kind of stands at the end of 00:41:58.075 --> 00:41:59.731 the executable. It's not really that hard. 00:42:00.845 --> 00:42:03.335 And you can usually just play around with it at the command line and see what 00:42:03.335 --> 00:42:06.697 works and then make that the launcher. But that would probably be one way to do it. 00:42:07.081 --> 00:42:10.765 I guess that we need more information to properly answer this and ask why you 00:42:10.765 --> 00:42:13.495 and we're also asking to be honest with you if you're holding it wrong a little 00:42:13.495 --> 00:42:17.053 bit but just a little bit like you might not be we might wait you might just need more context, 00:42:18.528 --> 00:42:22.428 Bronzer Wing comes in with 11,233 Satoshis. 00:42:23.851 --> 00:42:27.554 One vote for a Clanker podcast. Have you guys tried the Pi coding agent? 00:42:27.851 --> 00:42:35.345 I'm writing it with Llama CPP with Unsloth QN 3.8 Q4 KXL with MTP and No Vision 00:42:35.345 --> 00:42:38.795 MM Pro J for extra speed. Okay, I don't know what that last one is. 00:42:38.795 --> 00:42:41.935 Love it. I lost me on the last one. Feels almost frontier-like. 00:42:41.935 --> 00:42:42.419 Whoa. 00:42:42.523 --> 00:42:46.915 I ditched Hermes and OpenCode as they felt too bloated for local models. 00:42:46.915 --> 00:42:49.635 Oh, that is an interesting observation. I could see that. 00:42:50.235 --> 00:42:52.605 So I could see maybe why Pi coding would be a little more appealing. 00:42:52.605 --> 00:42:55.665 Yeah, if you don't. And, you know, if you are targeting a specific thing, 00:42:55.665 --> 00:42:59.741 you don't need a full sort of general assistant type agent. Skip the bloat. 00:43:00.037 --> 00:43:02.415 Have you tried? I know you've looked at it, Wes. I know you're familiar with it. 00:43:02.555 --> 00:43:05.375 Yeah, I haven't done anything extensive with Pi. I have, yeah, 00:43:05.955 --> 00:43:08.395 poked at it a little bit because it's kind of, you know, it was some of the 00:43:08.395 --> 00:43:12.795 fundamentals here early, too, and it's just continued on. Maybe we owe it some time. 00:43:14.095 --> 00:43:16.695 Thanks for the idea there, Bronzwing, and the report. They're always useful. 00:43:16.695 --> 00:43:17.139 I agree. 00:43:19.295 --> 00:43:24.290 G Anonymous comes in. 4,500 and 13 sats. 00:43:26.618 --> 00:43:33.125 No message found. So I'll take Distro Stew too because Distro Stew sent in 12,345 sats. 00:43:33.125 --> 00:43:37.154 You know, it's been a minute since we've had ourselves a Spaceballs boost. 00:43:40.503 --> 00:43:42.371 Yikes. 300 character limit. 00:43:42.371 --> 00:43:44.251 Oh, yikes. You say. Blessing, we say. 00:43:47.031 --> 00:43:50.151 I recently created a hub and spoke module for my sync thing setup. 00:43:50.611 --> 00:43:54.171 Two Nix servers. Everything else is a spoke. Phones, laptops, etc. 00:43:54.900 --> 00:43:59.251 When I was mesh syncing every host to every ephemeral host, it led to an unnecessary 00:43:59.251 --> 00:44:01.012 amount of conflicts over time. 00:44:01.378 --> 00:44:03.967 And then we get a little link from Stu here. 00:44:05.575 --> 00:44:07.131 Which doesn't seem to be working. 00:44:07.131 --> 00:44:09.881 Oh, no, it didn't seem to work. Maybe it got cut off by the 300 characters. 00:44:09.881 --> 00:44:10.131 Maybe. 00:44:10.571 --> 00:44:13.801 But love it. Thank you for the architecture. 00:44:13.801 --> 00:44:18.291 Yeah, the old hub and spoke model. I did it when I, for a long time, 00:44:18.671 --> 00:44:23.228 like sort of my main sync thing server was actually a VPS with some attached storage. 00:44:23.971 --> 00:44:26.351 And then I would attach everything to that and then have it, 00:44:26.467 --> 00:44:29.011 you know, everything obviously because of its high speed would sync there first 00:44:29.011 --> 00:44:31.141 just naturally and then it would sort of distribute to everything else and that 00:44:31.141 --> 00:44:33.137 worked quite well. It did work quite well. 00:44:34.182 --> 00:44:39.597 Well, Gene Bean boosted in a couple rows of ducks for a total of 6,666 sets. 00:44:43.190 --> 00:44:49.151 First one here, the hold music from Data in LUP680 is quite great. 00:44:51.108 --> 00:44:55.410 As for making up for missed streaming sats, wallet emptied while driving. 00:44:57.796 --> 00:44:58.753 On a road trip, eh, Gene? 00:44:59.530 --> 00:45:03.467 Do you all have any suggestions for interacting with SyncThing from iOS? 00:45:04.878 --> 00:45:09.808 Probably using whatever file manager that ends up being agreeable, 00:45:09.808 --> 00:45:13.018 I think. Really, I think it's probably putting a web file manager on a mesh 00:45:13.018 --> 00:45:15.842 VPN network is probably going to be my solution for that. 00:45:16.377 --> 00:45:20.336 I don't think sync thing as a service is very viable unless somebody knows differently. 00:45:21.683 --> 00:45:25.166 If anybody has a solution for that, please let us know because that is something I'd like to solve. 00:45:25.967 --> 00:45:31.888 Mr. Mayhem came in with a smoking hot boost right as we got going here. 2001 Satoshis. 00:45:33.530 --> 00:45:36.748 Your pre-show song reminded me to boost. Well, thank you very much, 00:45:36.748 --> 00:45:38.381 Mr. Mayhem. Appreciate that. 00:45:40.148 --> 00:45:46.178 Time for some fiat booze here we go boys well tan comes in with a hundred dollars wow, 00:45:57.980 --> 00:46:00.166 Month two, FOSS ad boost. 00:46:00.166 --> 00:46:00.736 All right. 00:46:00.736 --> 00:46:01.246 Thank you. 00:46:01.246 --> 00:46:01.939 Thank you, Dan. 00:46:02.165 --> 00:46:05.966 This is for a cool little project I found called the Open Book Touch, 00:46:06.406 --> 00:46:10.366 which is everything I've thought an e-reader should be and nothing more. 00:46:10.966 --> 00:46:13.427 I've already ordered one and thought I'd spread the word. 00:46:14.152 --> 00:46:18.016 Okay, look at this. This is looking good. So it looks like pricing will be between 00:46:18.016 --> 00:46:20.816 $150 and $250, depending on options. 00:46:20.961 --> 00:46:24.996 A pocketable, front-lit, open-source e-reader for every book in every language. 00:46:24.996 --> 00:46:30.316 Looks like a cleaner version of the Kindle. about the size of a large Field 00:46:30.316 --> 00:46:32.647 Notes notebook, which is a great visual. 00:46:33.239 --> 00:46:35.728 And yeah, it's an EPUB reader. 00:46:35.896 --> 00:46:36.726 No physical buttons. 00:46:36.726 --> 00:46:37.133 The ink. 00:46:37.986 --> 00:46:42.616 Device is a single, perfectly symmetrical 4.26-inch front-lit e-paper touchscreen, 00:46:42.616 --> 00:46:44.488 one centimeter thin in its enclosure. 00:46:45.097 --> 00:46:46.016 It looks great. 00:46:46.016 --> 00:46:49.393 Open book touch slips into a pocket and disappears until you unlock it to read. 00:46:50.536 --> 00:46:54.236 All right. Nice find, Dan. Thank you very much. I really would love to know 00:46:54.236 --> 00:46:55.866 how you like it when you get it. 00:46:55.886 --> 00:46:57.766 Yeah, please do report, because, boy, that looks tempting. 00:46:57.766 --> 00:46:58.762 Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. 00:46:59.847 --> 00:47:04.155 Well, definitely not. A Mac user comes in again with 20 total fiat. Yeah. 00:47:06.773 --> 00:47:11.812 My dad and I just finished a cross-country client-gertriff powered by open source. 00:47:12.096 --> 00:47:14.878 Oh, this is his boost to refer. You know, that's a nice way to do it. 00:47:15.378 --> 00:47:17.138 If you're going to do a long email, that's really thoughtful. 00:47:17.138 --> 00:47:20.438 Thank you, definitely. There's some extra details in here. Track and Devaric, 00:47:20.438 --> 00:47:24.398 which we mentioned. Image, we mentioned. Hermes, of course. But there's Nebula in here as well. 00:47:24.838 --> 00:47:26.178 Oh, yeah. Nice, dude. 00:47:26.178 --> 00:47:29.288 He says, see my email for more fun info. We did, and that was great. 00:47:29.288 --> 00:47:32.588 Boosting in to say thanks for being the entertainment on this trip and providing 00:47:32.588 --> 00:47:34.638 all the pics to make it happen. Keep it up. 00:47:34.638 --> 00:47:38.594 Well done putting it all to practical use, definitely. That's really awesome. 00:47:39.221 --> 00:47:43.588 Monty comes in with a free member boost. I support the use ThinkPad plan. 00:47:43.588 --> 00:47:46.498 There's never a shortage of good options in that 300 range. 00:47:46.498 --> 00:47:46.868 Agreed. 00:47:46.868 --> 00:47:50.068 I look for a listing that have several of the same model as a sign that there 00:47:50.068 --> 00:47:52.154 are off-lease business units. Yeah. 00:47:52.878 --> 00:47:57.098 Yeah, one listing has like 10 or more available. They usually come looking like 00:47:57.098 --> 00:48:00.468 new. Then I resell the previous and I get close to half back. 00:48:00.468 --> 00:48:01.245 Nice. 00:48:01.582 --> 00:48:03.908 Yeah, I guess around $300 if you only use them for a year or two. 00:48:03.908 --> 00:48:07.480 They probably don't lose too much more value. Halfback is not bad. 00:48:08.008 --> 00:48:12.373 That's kind of what I really want is a ThinkPad, around 14-inch screen, 00:48:13.151 --> 00:48:16.692 32 gigs of RAM, and 10th Gen or newer processor. 00:48:19.377 --> 00:48:22.434 I think 300 is a little, probably not quite enough at this point. 00:48:22.992 --> 00:48:25.406 But that's what I was looking at on eBay, and I just haven't really pulled the trigger yet. 00:48:26.591 --> 00:48:30.067 Well, we have another member boost here from Paul. Paul writes, 00:48:30.067 --> 00:48:36.677 continuing my member boost streak, do you try local tier models like the 30B 00:48:36.677 --> 00:48:39.703 variants of Muse Glimmer, Quen, or Gemma? 00:48:41.032 --> 00:48:44.747 I guess you don't have the resources to run them on your own hardware in a meaningful 00:48:44.747 --> 00:48:50.198 way, But would you be interested in trying to use small models exclusively for a week as a test? 00:48:51.237 --> 00:48:52.207 Ooh, fun idea. 00:48:52.207 --> 00:48:56.117 I'm always trying them to see what I can eke out of an old computer. 00:48:56.557 --> 00:49:01.137 And that's not much. Wes has done the Rent-A-Gupu model. 00:49:01.137 --> 00:49:01.535 Yeah. 00:49:01.657 --> 00:49:06.348 And has played with some of the more powerful versions of these self-hosted models on a rented GPU. 00:49:06.504 --> 00:49:10.167 Yeah, I've played a little bit with the Muse Glimmer model. That was fun. 00:49:10.167 --> 00:49:15.937 I was just playing with the Quen 3827B model. 00:49:15.937 --> 00:49:16.286 Yeah. 00:49:16.897 --> 00:49:18.916 And a tiny bit with Gamma. I'd like to do a little bit more with Gamma. 00:49:19.368 --> 00:49:22.648 But yeah, I haven't done like a whole week long. It's more like, 00:49:22.857 --> 00:49:26.377 you know, when new models come out, I usually try to find some time to go at 00:49:26.377 --> 00:49:28.757 least put them through some basic paces. 00:49:29.237 --> 00:49:31.134 Doesn't always happen, but I'd like to do more. 00:49:31.627 --> 00:49:37.281 Yeah. Oh, boy. Are we ready? One day in the distant future, hardware prices, 00:49:37.392 --> 00:49:40.757 some at some point will come back to earth and these models will be optimized 00:49:40.757 --> 00:49:43.371 for on a local hardware and maybe the two will meet maybe, 00:49:44.989 --> 00:49:48.257 A guy from Vienna sent a member boost. Use a rubber duck. 00:49:48.577 --> 00:49:51.880 Save the planet. I had this thought yesterday when debugging a network issue. 00:49:52.199 --> 00:49:55.670 The solution was quite obvious, but asking the LM first got me into a cul-de-sac. 00:49:56.054 --> 00:50:00.877 The rubber duck uses the energy and doesn't talk back. Nice feature sometimes. Yeah, it can be, right? 00:50:01.237 --> 00:50:06.085 You know, the rubber duck approach just to kick things around is definitely a valid use. 00:50:06.700 --> 00:50:11.227 Rubber duck it, Wes. And plug your laptop in. Wes's desktop environment is using 00:50:11.227 --> 00:50:13.881 too much power. Let's plug it in real quick. You want to take Lutra's copy? 00:50:14.055 --> 00:50:18.333 Gotta optimize that, Wes. Lucitropy came in with a free member boost. 00:50:18.832 --> 00:50:19.529 Lucitropy. 00:50:19.959 --> 00:50:25.659 I went to the future and got Wine 99.0, so I don't need to dual boot Windows anymore. 00:50:26.477 --> 00:50:30.497 I think we're reaching a point where you can clank any unsupported application 00:50:30.497 --> 00:50:35.687 into Wine. I was able to get my clanker to iterate and debug loading a small 00:50:35.687 --> 00:50:39.242 proprietary work app with Wine, and now I don't need Windows. 00:50:39.671 --> 00:50:48.147 Hmm. It does seem like... Wine compatibility is a softer target than porting 00:50:48.147 --> 00:50:49.685 an entire Windows application. 00:50:50.190 --> 00:50:53.767 And we have seen a couple of success stories of previously very complicated 00:50:53.767 --> 00:50:55.942 Windows applications getting wine support. 00:50:56.668 --> 00:50:58.897 So we may be, you might be honest on here. 00:50:58.897 --> 00:51:01.457 I mean, you can imagine, right? Just a few, especially if it's just a couple 00:51:01.457 --> 00:51:04.067 of spots, like it's not missing a whole giant compatibility thing, 00:51:04.067 --> 00:51:07.747 but it's just a few things you need to fix or implement some stub or something. 00:51:07.747 --> 00:51:11.697 Yeah. The real trick would be if anybody ever got Mac apps working, 00:51:11.697 --> 00:51:14.199 but now that they're on the M platform, I don't think that's ever going to happen. 00:51:14.745 --> 00:51:18.067 Thank you, everybody, who boosted the shows. We have those of you who streamed 00:51:18.067 --> 00:51:23.087 them stats, 15 of you, collectively stacked 26,303 Satoshis. 00:51:26.586 --> 00:51:31.733 I guess that's the Texas amount. There you go. 26,303. That's not too bad. 00:51:31.733 --> 00:51:32.635 Thank you, SatStreamers. 00:51:32.925 --> 00:51:36.143 When you combine that with our Fiat Boosters and our SatBoosters, 00:51:36.143 --> 00:51:44.465 and we'll just kind of convert it all to sats, the show this week stacked 292,102 Satoshis. 00:51:45.417 --> 00:51:46.288 Not too bad at all. 00:51:48.192 --> 00:51:51.135 And, of course, thank you to all of our members who put your support on Autopilot. 00:51:51.605 --> 00:51:55.673 Don't forget you get that free member boost as a reward at boost.jupiterbroadcasting.com. 00:51:55.673 --> 00:52:00.253 and you can support each individual episode as well by going to boost.jupiterbroadcasting.com 00:52:00.253 --> 00:52:03.146 or in your podcast app. The memberships are pretty neat, though. 00:52:03.564 --> 00:52:07.209 Jupyter.party gives you access to the entire network's special features, 00:52:07.540 --> 00:52:11.543 like bootleg editions of the show, which right now, the bootleg edition of Linux 00:52:11.543 --> 00:52:15.487 Unplugged is almost an hour and 54, 55 minutes long at this point. 00:52:15.870 --> 00:52:19.153 Lots of content, really good discussions in those bootlegs, sometimes develop 00:52:19.153 --> 00:52:22.423 into full segments, but sometimes it only ever lives in the bootlegs. 00:52:22.423 --> 00:52:24.460 If you want more content, there's a whole other show. 00:52:24.849 --> 00:52:30.497 and jupyter.signal, or you can support just this humble show at linuxunplugged.com slash membership. 00:52:32.604 --> 00:52:37.104 I'm kind of excited about these picks, boys. Let's start with Dank Calendar 00:52:37.104 --> 00:52:40.414 because it's the one I told you about that kind of proves that these quick shell 00:52:40.414 --> 00:52:45.566 applications don't have to be tied to an individual desktop environment or individual shell. 00:52:46.019 --> 00:52:49.614 They can actually be spun out into their own applications. And I present you 00:52:49.994 --> 00:52:52.892 Dank Calendar, which is also available on Flathub. 00:52:53.374 --> 00:52:55.974 So you can just install it on any distro of choice. 00:52:55.974 --> 00:52:57.174 Yeah, look at this. 00:52:57.174 --> 00:53:02.054 Now, it's a simple, clean, local calendar that can connect to Google, 00:53:02.054 --> 00:53:05.727 Microsoft, CalDev, and iCloud calendars and pull it into one app. 00:53:07.174 --> 00:53:10.294 And I use it in coordination with my Keeper application, which is already syncing 00:53:10.294 --> 00:53:14.951 all of my calendars to one iCal feed. So then I can just plug that into Dank Calendar. 00:53:15.427 --> 00:53:19.854 And, well, Richard is your mother's brother. I now have not only a great desktop 00:53:19.854 --> 00:53:21.609 calendar app, but a great calendar widget as well. 00:53:21.922 --> 00:53:26.026 Yeah, and you can tell how it's made. I mean, one, it's got a flake.next. Love to see it. 00:53:26.854 --> 00:53:30.334 it's 49% go and 45% QML. 00:53:32.394 --> 00:53:35.308 The other one, you know, Wes, you were talking about sources of truth. 00:53:36.058 --> 00:53:40.038 And I think when you're thinking about agentic network management or you're 00:53:40.038 --> 00:53:45.037 just thinking about human network management, having a visual home lab map, 00:53:45.652 --> 00:53:49.848 diagram that is live and represents your actual living network. 00:53:49.848 --> 00:53:52.918 Oh, not like the way it was six months ago when I last thought to update it? 00:53:52.918 --> 00:53:56.918 Yeah, is pretty useful. And I've always kind of loved experimenting with these. 00:53:56.918 --> 00:53:59.480 And I think I have found the apex predator in the space. 00:53:59.968 --> 00:54:04.257 It's called Home Label. It's a visual home lab manager mapper kind of a dealio. 00:54:04.559 --> 00:54:09.795 It's self-hostable, and it visualizes an interactive diagram of your network with live monitoring. 00:54:10.602 --> 00:54:15.310 It provides a network integration for like your IP network, your Zigbee devices, 00:54:15.554 --> 00:54:16.965 and your Z-Wave devices. 00:54:17.359 --> 00:54:22.495 So you can also bring your smart devices into this diagram, which is really, really powerful. 00:54:22.821 --> 00:54:27.548 It also supports importing Proxmox. So if you use a Proxmox server, 00:54:27.548 --> 00:54:31.174 you can connect to it, and it understands the architecture of your Proxmox VM 00:54:31.290 --> 00:54:35.578 and pulls that into the diagram for you as well, including the networking setup and all of that. 00:54:36.098 --> 00:54:41.868 It's great. It produces a canvas layout that you can export as Markdown or you 00:54:41.868 --> 00:54:46.830 can export as a PNG, or you can make available to agents over at MCP. 00:54:47.300 --> 00:54:51.458 And then they can use this as a source of truth for how your network is actually 00:54:51.458 --> 00:54:54.655 physically laid out and what services run on which device. 00:54:55.061 --> 00:54:57.838 So this goes back to what Wes was saying about having a source of truth. 00:54:57.838 --> 00:54:59.932 This could be a source of truth in that scenario. 00:55:00.147 --> 00:55:02.528 So again, it's called home label. And one of the things I love about it is even 00:55:02.528 --> 00:55:09.548 if you never had any plans to use the MCP or whatever, it produces this great 00:55:09.548 --> 00:55:12.608 visual diagram system of your network –. 00:55:13.846 --> 00:55:18.925 That you can use as a human being. And they've just recently announced a Hacks 00:55:18.925 --> 00:55:22.595 plugin so it'll integrate with your Home Assistant if you use the Home Assistant 00:55:22.595 --> 00:55:24.531 stack and pull in that information. 00:55:25.083 --> 00:55:28.717 Every device, one canvas, your switches, your routers, your cameras, 00:55:28.960 --> 00:55:31.306 your VMs, your NAS device, 00:55:31.835 --> 00:55:35.549 any electric smart devices that are reading electricity usage, 00:55:35.840 --> 00:55:39.792 your ISP information, Wi-Fi stuff, like I said, ZigBee and Z-Wave, 00:55:40.210 --> 00:55:43.655 all of it into this, and then it diagrams it all up for you and then gives you 00:55:43.655 --> 00:55:47.996 nice little status lights about what services are active, you could literally... 00:55:49.261 --> 00:55:53.297 Diagram your network rack if you want with this thing and end of down to the 00:55:53.297 --> 00:55:55.101 individual port level if you so care. 00:55:56.239 --> 00:56:00.577 And the ability to pull in the Zigbee and the Z-Wave networks so you can map 00:56:00.577 --> 00:56:05.467 your IoT network along with the rest of, so you now get the full picture of 00:56:05.467 --> 00:56:07.263 the network, not just your IP network 00:56:07.634 --> 00:56:10.677 and not just the Zigbee network and not just the Z-Wave network off on their 00:56:10.677 --> 00:56:14.153 own islands, but the whole thing and all of it monitored by the system available 00:56:14.554 --> 00:56:16.984 as an API, a web interface or an MCP. 00:56:18.156 --> 00:56:24.304 homelabel.net it's fantastic I set it up this weekend I've been loving it. 00:56:24.791 --> 00:56:26.677 This is so crazy it's very. 00:56:26.677 --> 00:56:31.947 Impressive wow it's great I'm really really happy with it I had it scan, 00:56:32.907 --> 00:56:38.737 both my hen network and my main network and the proxmox how did it do what did 00:56:38.737 --> 00:56:42.467 you learn all diagram nice it's MIT licensed so, 00:56:43.187 --> 00:56:49.187 have at it you can run it via docker or whatever you like I'm doing Docker compose for this setup and, 00:56:50.627 --> 00:56:52.946 easy peasy. Really? It wasn't, it was, it was nothing. 00:56:53.590 --> 00:56:56.220 And the results are great. The scan is great too. It has, um, 00:56:56.899 --> 00:57:00.457 by default, you have to review the results and then approve them, 00:57:00.457 --> 00:57:03.117 which is my preferred route because otherwise sometimes these things just get 00:57:03.117 --> 00:57:05.508 crazy and then you can just get to diagramming. 00:57:06.233 --> 00:57:08.697 Uh, you could likely even just have the agent generated diagram, 00:57:08.697 --> 00:57:10.204 I suppose if you don't want to do it yourself. 00:57:10.721 --> 00:57:13.557 Um, but it's really neat. It's neat to also see all my cameras in their own 00:57:13.557 --> 00:57:16.890 group and stuff like that, that other tools just haven't really properly visualized. 00:57:17.291 --> 00:57:20.847 Yeah, it seems like maybe part of the value is that it has a wide array of possible 00:57:20.847 --> 00:57:24.567 options and things that it has understanding of and that you can therefore have 00:57:24.567 --> 00:57:25.986 them all in one cohesive picture. 00:57:26.538 --> 00:57:29.748 Your IP network, your Proxmox, your Zigbee, and your Z-Wave, 00:57:31.009 --> 00:57:33.871 is really great. I've never seen that before. 00:57:34.353 --> 00:57:37.917 You don't have to bring your own understanding and layers and stuff. 00:57:38.108 --> 00:57:39.253 It understands that already. 00:57:39.253 --> 00:57:42.753 Yeah, you can. So if you don't use a Hacks integration, then you have to just 00:57:42.753 --> 00:57:44.613 connect to like your MQTT server or something. 00:57:44.913 --> 00:57:48.081 There's a little bit more work there. But if you use the Hacks integration, it just ties all in. 00:57:48.743 --> 00:57:51.123 And then to be able to export it all is really nice. So like you can like, 00:57:51.123 --> 00:57:54.995 you know, go flex your network diagram when you get it all pretty as a PNG. That's pretty cool. 00:57:55.506 --> 00:57:58.503 And if you do want to hook it up to the MCP, you can just, you can ask your 00:57:58.503 --> 00:58:02.313 agent or your cloud code or your open code, whatever it is, what nodes are currently 00:58:02.313 --> 00:58:04.163 offline, it gets a list back. 00:58:04.163 --> 00:58:09.773 You could say, add a new LXE container named PyHole at 192.168.1.5 running on 00:58:09.773 --> 00:58:11.702 this host connected to this virtual VLAN. 00:58:11.812 --> 00:58:15.863 And the agent can query this and understand what all of that means and have 00:58:15.863 --> 00:58:18.301 a live updated map and understanding of it. 00:58:19.322 --> 00:58:22.673 So you're going to reduce not only exploration times, you're going to reduce 00:58:22.673 --> 00:58:25.463 your token costs, but you're going to reduce mistakes too. And then that means 00:58:25.463 --> 00:58:27.211 you can use models that perhaps aren't, you know, 00:58:28.691 --> 00:58:30.798 Fable or something. They don't have to be frontier level. 00:58:31.146 --> 00:58:34.399 I noticed it also has a read-only stats API you can get. 00:58:34.939 --> 00:58:36.719 So that's kind of nice. You can see how many nodes you've got, 00:58:36.719 --> 00:58:40.103 stuff that's offline, unknown devices, and when you last did a scan. 00:58:41.259 --> 00:58:44.155 That smells like a little Quickshell widget to me. 00:58:44.393 --> 00:58:48.669 You're right, dude. You're right, actually. Well said. I hadn't thought of that 00:58:48.669 --> 00:58:51.144 yet, but I mean, I have it all set up. I'm all in on this. 00:58:51.603 --> 00:58:54.919 I really like it. And it's really, it's complimentary to some of the other network 00:58:54.919 --> 00:58:57.669 monitoring I already use, too. It's fantastic. 00:58:58.900 --> 00:59:00.709 Can you hear the plane out there, Brentley? Did you hear the plane? 00:59:00.709 --> 00:59:01.797 Makes me want to fly. 00:59:02.139 --> 00:59:04.889 We had a banner going by for Home Label as we did the episode. 00:59:04.889 --> 00:59:08.049 I don't know. I know it's an audio. Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course. 00:59:08.049 --> 00:59:09.499 But that was actually the smoke one. 00:59:09.499 --> 00:59:09.796 Oh. 00:59:10.539 --> 00:59:14.749 Yeah, so MIT license, link to that in the show notes. And if you forget the 00:59:14.749 --> 00:59:19.454 show notes, well, those are at linuxunplugged.com. And this one is slash 682. 00:59:22.019 --> 00:59:24.999 It's best not to think about it and just read the numbers without internalizing. 00:59:26.529 --> 00:59:31.360 Also, I want to remind you the show is live. We make it a Tuesday on a Sunday over at JBLive.tv. 00:59:35.018 --> 00:59:38.432 Yeah, you can get it converted at jupiterbroadcasting.com slash calendar. 00:59:38.432 --> 00:59:41.385 The mumble room's always going throughout the week, but really pops during the show. 00:59:41.821 --> 00:59:45.712 And then if you want to read more, look at something we said, 00:59:45.712 --> 00:59:48.724 or point your clanker at more information, Wes, hook them up with the info. 00:59:49.269 --> 00:59:54.442 Well, do you prefer an SRT file or the even more robust VTT file? 00:59:54.442 --> 00:59:55.542 I think I'm going VTT these days. 00:59:55.542 --> 00:59:59.002 You're a VTT kind of person. Okay, yeah, web VTT, good standard there. 00:59:59.002 --> 00:59:59.522 I'm liking that. 01:00:01.000 --> 01:00:01.702 But that's not all? 01:00:01.702 --> 01:00:01.992 No. 01:00:01.992 --> 01:00:07.962 No, there's an upgraded now in two dimensions instead of just one video feed. Yeah, an MP4. 01:00:07.962 --> 01:00:10.272 That seems like a lot of work. Huh, that's just in the feed? 01:00:10.272 --> 01:00:10.582 Yeah. 01:00:10.582 --> 01:00:11.742 Just a regular OSS feed? 01:00:11.742 --> 01:00:15.146 Right next to where we keep our JSON file with our Cloud Chapters. 01:00:15.512 --> 01:00:19.522 So like structured data that you could just analyze and go right to the section in the show? 01:00:19.522 --> 01:00:22.352 It's a little out of vogue. It is XML-based, right? 01:00:22.352 --> 01:00:22.402 Oh. 01:00:23.142 --> 01:00:25.293 But technically, XML is parsable, yes. 01:00:25.427 --> 01:00:27.209 Oh, okay. Can we just do it in Markdown then? 01:00:28.468 --> 01:00:30.422 Someday. We probably will. 01:00:31.644 --> 01:00:34.482 I don't know about that. So we'd love it if you joined us. Take advantage of 01:00:34.482 --> 01:00:39.161 all those extra features and all that over at linuxunplugged.com slash RSS for the RSS feed. 01:00:39.469 --> 01:00:42.296 And of course, of course, that mumble room. 01:00:42.667 --> 01:00:45.506 Details at jupyterbroadcasting.com. Check out some of the other great shows 01:00:45.849 --> 01:00:48.083 over there as well. The launch comes out on Tuesday. 01:00:49.668 --> 01:00:53.672 Actually, it's live Tuesday. It comes out on Wednesday. Check it out. Weeklylaunch.ru. 01:00:53.722 --> 01:00:55.235 I think there's an RSS feed for that. 01:00:55.380 --> 01:00:56.922 There might be. There might be several RSS feeds. 01:00:56.922 --> 01:00:57.505 More XML, baby. 01:00:57.998 --> 01:01:01.242 Websites are great. I tell you what. All right. Thank you so much for joining 01:01:01.242 --> 01:01:03.414 us on this week's episode of your Unplugged program. 01:01:03.716 --> 01:01:07.825 And we'll see you right back here next Tuesday, as in Sunday.