Chris: Hello, friends, and welcome back to your weekly Linux talk show. My name is Chris.
Wes: My name is Wes.
Brent: And my name is Brent.
Chris: Hello, gentlemen. Coming up on the show today, Linux 6.14 is landing,
Chris: and there are big improvements in there for gaming, file systems, and a lot more.
Chris: But you might have noticed there's a Windows feature that's sneaking into Linux
Chris: kernel. We'll dig into what that's all about.
Chris: We'll round out the show with some great boosts and feedback,
Chris: some picks, and more. So before we get into all of that, let's say hello to
Chris: our virtual lugtime appropriate greetings, Mumble Room. Hello, hello.
Mumble: Hey, Chris. Hey, Wes. And hello, Brent.
Chris: Hi. Hello. Got a handful of you in the on-air and a handful of you in the quiet listening.
Chris: The Mumble Room, of course, is always going when we get our stream up and running on a Sunday morning.
Chris: And a big good morning to our friends at Tailscale. Tailscale.com slash unplugged.
Chris: Tailscale is the easiest way to connect your devices and services to each other, wherever they are.
Chris: It's modern networking the way you really, really want it, protected by...
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Chris: You can combine complex network infrastructures into a flat mesh network.
Chris: Maybe you got multiple VPSs, you got some on-premises stuff.
Chris: All of that can come together, and it's really, really fast.
Chris: It's easy to deploy. It's zero config. It is a no fuss VPN.
Chris: And then there are things like ACLs and additional feature sets that you can
Chris: build on top of like integrated in with your company's authentication infrastructure.
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Chris: But the real magic is if you go to tailscale.com slash unplug,
Chris: they're going to give it to you for free for up to 100 devices and three users,
Chris: no credit card required, not a trial.
Chris: That's the starting plan. And like me, you'll start using it and it will change your network. game.
Chris: It is really something else to
Chris: now have everything on my own tail net and nothing on the public internet.
Chris: All my devices sync over my tail net. We access and manage all of the Jupyter
Chris: broadcasting infrastructure over our tail net.
Chris: And even some of our public traffic is actually tunneled through our tail net
Chris: to infrastructure on the back end and then displayed to the public.
Chris: It really is very powerful. That's why thousands of companies like Instacart,
Chris: Hugging Face, and Duolingo have switched to using Tailscale.
Chris: And so many in our audience love it too.
Chris: So try it for yourself or for your business, but support the show and get started
Chris: by going to talescale.com slash unplugged.
Chris: Go there, get it for free on 100 devices.
Chris: Talescale.com slash unplugged.
Chris: Brace yourself. We have 25 days until LinuxFest Northwest, if you can believe it.
Chris: Now, of course, the schedule is live. We'll have a link in the show notes.
Chris: Linux Unplugged is going to be live at 10 a.m. in HC108 on Sunday.
Chris: Live from LinuxFest. And I just heard from Noah that he'll be joining us from the Ask Noah program.
Chris: And also Wes has a talk after the live show in the same area,
Chris: maybe not the same room but the same building.
Wes: Definitely the same conference.
Chris: Same conference, same building I think but maybe upstairs Linux powered payments
Chris: running the Lightning Node with Nix Bitcoin at 1.30pm.
Wes: Yeah trying to just share some of the stuff we found useful if you do want to
Wes: engage with the Lightning Network probably the best way to run a node at least
Wes: if you want full control is something like Nix Bitcoin powered by Nix and Nix OS Also.
Chris: You can just come say hi to us because probably a lot of us will be there.
Chris: We're going to have to figure that out because there's no way we are done with
Chris: the show by 1.30. I mean, we might be done streaming.
Chris: There's no way we're done with the show by 1.30.
Wes: Yeah, maybe it publishes a bit later. It publishes after my talk.
Chris: I don't even know what we're doing. It's going to be crazy, but we've got 25
Chris: days to figure it out. And we'd love to see it, LinuxFest Northwest.
Chris: I'm feeling like it's going to be a good weather year.
Chris: I'm hoping. We'll see.
Wes: Yeah, we've earned that after last year.
Brent: Is it like a seven-year cycle?
Chris: I think it's a two-year cycle. I don't know. We'll see. This will be the trendsetter.
Wes: Yeah, if Brent doesn't do his cloud seeding like last year.
Chris: Stupid lobes. Weather lobes.
Brent: Hey, it worked well. I think we got good seed funds from that one.
Chris: Well, speaking of funds, I just want to take a moment up front in the show and
Chris: thank our members and our boosters who have been supporting the show.
Chris: The show really is trying to do something unique in this space.
Chris: We're trying to make the highest quality product we know how.
Chris: We aspire to make a magazine's worth of content in nearly every episode,
Chris: every single week, for free.
Chris: And we're doing it for a market, the Linux listener base, that historically
Chris: has failed to make this kind of thing sustainable via sponsorships alone.
Chris: And of course, we seem to prefer to do things the hard way. So we're not leaning
Chris: into where the money is these days.
Chris: YouTube, clickbait drama topics. We're using an open platform with an open standard
Chris: that doesn't have an algo that pushes us in front of you.
Chris: And one of the things we would like to do in the next couple of months is raise
Chris: some funds to buy some gear, some headsets that we can use on our LinuxFest
Chris: Northwest coverage and the BangBus trip to rescue Brent's new BangBus,
Chris: which we expect to be doing live shows from the van on the road.
Chris: And you know our standards are fairly high, and I've been researching this for weeks.
Chris: I've asked around to people's opinions that I respect to see what they suggest,
Chris: and I've landed on a set of headphone-microphone combos that I would like to buy for the boys.
Chris: It's the Sennheiser HMD-26 dual ear broadcast headset.
Chris: Now, these things are not cheap. They're $500 each, and they don't even come
Chris: with their proprietary cable, which is also another $100.
Chris: So it's not that I come to this conclusion easily, and I have ordered one for
Chris: myself already, just so I can get some experience and test it.
Chris: You know, these are really in the sweet spot for a quality that I think we could
Chris: accept on air that are under $1,000.
Chris: And we should be able to EQ and process them. I'm going to talk to Editor Drew
Chris: on his opinion about that.
Chris: And we hope to make them sound decent. And I'd love for each of the boys to
Chris: be able to get one too. So it's around $1,300 we're going to raise.
Chris: And I'm comfortable buying them with BoostSats or something like that.
Chris: So if you would like to help support us getting that gear and getting us ready
Chris: for the van trip and for LinuxFest Northwest, please consider boosting the next few weeks episodes.
Chris: We do come to the audience from time to time with these kinds of things.
Chris: Not always, but with fewer sponsors out there, this is kind of how we have to
Chris: finance these types of things.
Chris: The show goes on if we don't reach our goal, but it is about trying to make
Chris: the show as good as possible on the road.
Chris: Not just from an audio quality standpoint, but I'm also looking for something
Chris: that we can reasonably manage in a small backpack gear kind of thing.
Chris: Something compact, on the go.
Chris: And again, like when we're at a booth at LinuxFest, something where we don't
Chris: have to have a bunch of microphone stands and all of that.
Chris: And if you think about it from a gear piece, it's a microphone,
Chris: it's the stand, it's the cable, and then it's another set of headphones.
Chris: And if you can slim all that down into one device, it makes it just a lot easier
Chris: from an operational standpoint.
Wes: Yeah, investing in simplicity, which makes it cheaper in a variety of ways,
Wes: less gear to bring around, less complex, and hopefully makes it easier for us
Wes: to be able to do this at more places or more events.
Chris: Yeah, so if you'd like to, that's probably about 1.3 million sats.
Chris: So if you'd like to boost in for the next few weeks and have a go to that,
Chris: just note it in your boost, and we'd appreciate that.
Chris: And of course, the members, your support keeps the show going there,
Chris: and we really appreciate that as well.
Chris: And the show will go on if we don't raise the funds, but I wanted to put it
Chris: out there as it's a goal of ours, and we'll have more if it works out.
Chris: And thank you, everybody who does support the show, in either way you do,
Chris: either through treasury, through time, or through your talent.
Chris: We really appreciate it.
Chris: Well, just as we're sitting here recording, Linux 6.14 is cooking,
Chris: and it is a major release.
Chris: It's 2025, it's got some barn burners, and this particular release is going
Chris: to be in the next Fedora and Ubuntu releases, as well as a bunch of other distros.
Chris: So it's an important release, and it's a banger release.
Wes: Also, should we just note at the top that it was the rare event where,
Wes: in a way that didn't matter at all, Linus Torvalds released a day late,
Wes: I'd love to have some good excuse for why I didn't do the 6.14 release yesterday
Wes: on my regular Sunday afternoon release schedule.
Wes: I'd like to say that some important last-minute thing came up and delayed things.
Wes: But no, it's just pure incompetence.
Chris: I love it. After all this time.
Wes: Because absolutely nothing last-minute happened, and I was just cleaning up
Wes: some unrelated things in order to be ready for the merge window.
Wes: And in the process, just entirely forgot to cut the release.
Chris: That's all right.
Wes: Yeah, it's still, it turns out, a great kernel.
Chris: It really is. and we're going to get into some of our favorite improvements and updates.
Chris: There's a lot more to this kernel, and we could do a three-part episode series on it.
Chris: So please feel free to nerd out with the links in the show notes.
Chris: We have, I think, links to some of the best coverage.
Chris: But let's start with the one that's close to our heart. Wes is running it on his laptop right now.
Chris: BcacheFS saw a major step towards stability in Linux 6.14.
Wes: Yeah, well, it was kind of the catch-up release, right? So there was a good,
Wes: lots of good stuff in 6.12 and then 6.13 due to the code of conduct ruling,
Wes: Kent could not contribute.
Wes: So we didn't see any updates in 6.13. So now we're getting a lot of good stuff in 6.14.
Wes: In particular, there is hopefully the last planned big, major,
Wes: expensive, but still automatic and required on-disk format upgrade coming with 6.14.
Wes: So it just happens automatically in the background. But if you have like a giant
Wes: array, that could be some work to do.
Chris: So you might not even notice. Yeah.
Wes: In the past, I have not for just running as my root of S.
Chris: Okay. So with that comes major scalability enhancements.
Wes: Yeah. And that's the thing, right? A lot of this stuff is as,
Wes: you know, the file system gets used in actual scenarios and can't go through bug reports.
Wes: You kind of find out, oh, it turns out we wanted to slightly tweak this structure
Wes: or a lot of times it's adding points where they can keep more information or
Wes: more statistics or metrics or like information or back pointers.
Wes: A lot of times where you kind of have more of the structure preserved to make
Wes: it faster when you're trying to do some repair operation so that you don't have
Wes: to like go scan as much data.
Chris: To that point, they say in here there's a dramatic speed up for FSCK.
Wes: Yeah.
Chris: And they tested it on. Do you see that in there?
Wes: Yeah, right. 10 petabyte file systems. They.
Chris: Have 10 petabyte file systems out there running bcachefs right now.
Wes: Yeah so i don't think my like 500 gig root fs is really gonna sweat that.
Chris: So good to know.
Wes: Yeah good to know and it's just if you do ever get that it's a good reminder
Wes: right like if you're not willing to test on disk format upgrades uh with giant
Wes: arrays then bcachefs is not yet for you which is totally fine it's still uh
Wes: experimental but also this is good good signs i think of um you know signs of
Wes: stability going forward they were hitting places where,
Wes: Once you get to a point of not, at least not even expecting on disk format changes,
Wes: there still could be some if like a major issue needs it.
Wes: But this is the first step towards it being more trustworthy for like actual serious data arrays.
Chris: Very much so. I should have looked more into this. I just noticed in my notes
Chris: here, the default runtime has been set to self-healing enabled.
Wes: Yeah, there's been a lot of self-healing work going on, right?
Wes: There was already ways that you could trigger that.
Wes: We don't yet have a full scrub, but we do have self-healing.
Wes: Uh and coming in 6.15 it's already merged upstream i think in 6.15 we should see,
Wes: full scrub support it's already also in the upstream userland
Wes: utils but i think in a future release so again right
Wes: you need you need the self-healing capability at all having it happen when it
Wes: detects things on the fly and then from there you can have scrub that just sort
Wes: of walks the whole file system to trigger that checking it's a bones release
Wes: maybe not one that you'll see a ton of changes from a user perspective but that's
Wes: a sign of where we're at with the infrastructure it's.
Chris: It was interesting so like the moment the 614 window
Chris: opens kent he does a poll that is just like here's syncing everything up and
Chris: then here is here's all these improvements too so it's really fascinating just
Chris: to read through his description of all of it and to see him just right back
Chris: at it and i wouldn't be surprised if by the end of the year or before the end
Chris: of the year, the experimental flag is removed.
Wes: Yeah, I like that as a 2025 prediction.
Chris: Could be.
Wes: A little low-key predict.
Chris: I can't remember if I actually made that in the actual predictions episode.
Wes: Do you have the lock it in sound somewhere?
Chris: All right, well, the file system that's actually shipping right now that a lot
Chris: of folks are using is ButterFS.
Chris: And there has been some really good improvements landing in ButterFS,
Chris: including three new RAID 1 read balancing methods, which improves how reads
Chris: are distributed across devices. So you have rotation...
Chris: Which actively rotates and reads to keep all devices engaged.
Chris: That's the preferred default going forward.
Chris: You have latency, which optimizes for unstable or failing device transports.
Chris: And then there's dev ID, which gives you manual control over which device handles
Chris: the reads, which I could definitely see workflows where that would be useful.
Wes: Yeah, absolutely. And maybe even just as like an operational thing for,
Wes: you know, while you're having issues with the disk you're going to replace or something.
Chris: And of course, not just like changes to RAID 1, but also other improvements
Chris: to ButterFS have landed, which includes support for uncached buffered I.O.
Chris: And here's a bit from kernel newbies. They say this release adds support for
Chris: optionally sending buffered I.O.
Chris: Whose pages will be dropped from the page cache once the data is read or written.
Chris: The reason for this feature are fast storage devices that can and do fill the
Chris: RAM with too much page cache that will not be needed.
Chris: With this feature, it is possible for the read and write data and to drop it
Chris: from the cache without facing the disadvantages and complexity of dealing with direct I.O.
Chris: Man, I wish I had that problem. Where my disk I.O. was so fast that I was overfilling
Chris: my RAM with stuff I didn't need.
Wes: But isn't it great that the file systems in the kernel are attempting to keep
Wes: up with the latest and greatest hardware? Or at least, you know, a version ago of that?
Chris: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Wes: I think there's actually been some work generally around on cache buffer I.O.
Wes: In the latest couple of kernels to just make that better.
Chris: Okay, one last file system thing. You had to get the file system things out
Chris: of the way because these probably really impact the most of us, some of these features.
Chris: And the one that really sees some love is actually your Fuse file systems.
Chris: They're going to get a big performance boost via IOU ring.
Chris: So this is a fascinating story. A gentleman who works at DDN Storage,
Chris: he had a talk at the 2023 Linux Storage Summit and also at BPF Summit,
Chris: and he talked about discovering an odd issue when really taxing his MVME disk.
Chris: He says, I was looking at an MVME driver and was wondering why it was able to
Chris: avoid the bottlenecks, why it wasn't or was, I'm not sure, able to avoid the
Chris: bottlenecks I was seeing.
Chris: Oh, it was. It was because it was using Ioring, Uring, but it was in the wrong direction, he says.
Chris: It was going from user space to the kernel, but what Fuse really needed was
Chris: for it to go the other way. Can you help me make sense of that, Wes?
Wes: Yeah, I think they were investigating issues with Fuse and noticed that the
Wes: NVMe driver wasn't having the same problems.
Chris: Okay.
Wes: And the way it was using IOU ring, which is a new I.O.
Wes: Mechanism in the kernel that makes it really fast and cheap to be able to have
Wes: the kernel, you know like fill a section of memory with data say coming off
Wes: of a network driver or something i.
Chris: Think our last kernel deep dive episode we did go into that a little.
Wes: We did yeah and then user space can read from that and then avoids a whole bunch
Wes: of context switching between the two which is always expensive uh so now we're
Wes: having some of these techniques being able to be applied,
Wes: to fuse to speed up basically whatever you're doing with fuse which is a whole
Wes: bunch of stuff because Fuse is, as a reminder,
Wes: file systems in user space.
Wes: So you can have a user space process managing things, but the kernel and other
Wes: programs, crucially, treat it like it's a kernel file system,
Wes: right? And this is where you can have stuff like SSHFS.
Wes: And there's a whole bunch of very, very cool Fuse file systems.
Wes: But because you have to have, right, you're talking the kernel API for file
Wes: systems, but then the kernel has to go and talk to the user space thing managing the Fuse file system,
Wes: that's a ripe area where you need a whole bunch of data exchange that can be
Wes: expensive if you're doing context switches but with iou ring,
Wes: It can be faster.
Chris: You avoid some of that. One of the interesting insights to this is this could
Chris: have broad ramifications for all types of Fuse file systems.
Chris: We use one that's essentially a WebDAV Fuse file system for managing the files on our next cloud.
Chris: And this could be really nice to see something we've considered generally a
Chris: little bit slower than a real native file system actually get a nice little boost here.
Chris: And we're seeing IOU ring, which we talked about before, really kind of come
Chris: in and change the game, which is fascinating to see it kind of get rolled out
Chris: in different areas. And I think
Chris: the discovery here is probably going to be applicable in other areas.
Chris: Like Fuse is where they're starting, but I bet you this idea ends up kind of
Chris: spreading out in other places.
Wes: Yeah, usually it does.
Chris: Now, that is all the file system stuff. Great job, everybody.
Chris: There's more in there, of course, including there's a fascinating history with Fuse.
Chris: There has been a couple of goes at replacing Fuse to try to solve some of these problems.
Chris: And a couple of different attempts at like fuse two and a different type of
Chris: fuse all together to specifically try to solve these problems they never really
Chris: got adoption and then we kind of came along and solved it at the kernel level i.
Wes: Have good news and bad news we're actually not done with file systems.
Chris: Oh we're not no okay because.
Wes: Xfs gained enhanced real-time device support.
Chris: Oh you're right you're right you're right xfs got some love this cycle Yeah,
Chris: and it's, you know, I think this is particularly worth noting just because last
Chris: year we covered the XFS maintainer swap, or maybe it was a little bit longer than that.
Chris: And that maintainer that stepped down was a long-time really trusted maintainer.
Chris: And the person coming in, we weren't quite sure what direction they would take
Chris: the project. And what we've seen is just impressive development after impressive development.
Chris: So the XFS developer Derek Wong explained on some of the real-time reverse mapping
Chris: and reeling support that's landing in this patch series.
Chris: He says, Christoph and I have been working on getting the long-delayed port
Chris: of reverse mapping and reflink to the real-time device into a manageable shape.
Chris: With these changes, the real-time volume finally reaches the feature parity with the data device.
Chris: This is the base for building more functionality into XFS, such as the zone
Chris: storage support that Christoph posted about last week.
Wes: I think it continues the story of, I mean, just XFS being a great,
Wes: you know, if you don't need the kind of things that things like Butterfess and
Wes: ZFS and Bcache address, XFS is just a great file system.
Wes: And they're really pressing to keep up with, in the ways that its architecture
Wes: supports, It's an impressive subset of modern file system functionality.
Chris: Okay, now that is all of the file system stuff. And this next category is,
Chris: holy crap, there's a lot of AMD stuff landing.
Chris: But first, we should acknowledge the very important addition,
Chris: at the kernel level, support for the Microsoft Copilot key on modern laptops.
Wes: Hey, did you know that was the thing?
Chris: There you go, Brent. And so if you get a framework now and, you know,
Chris: some of those new frameworks come with a copilot key, don't worry, it's going to work.
Wes: So is this in addition to the existing Windows key?
Chris: Yeah, it's on the other side now. You know, so you got the on the other side
Chris: of the keyboard on the right side, I guess. I don't know what it does on Linux.
Chris: Maybe you can just map it to something.
Wes: Maybe it'll trigger your home assistant for you.
Chris: Sure.
Brent: I think it should be your compose key. But if you don't know what that is,
Brent: then maybe it's not useful for you.
Chris: All right. Well, let's talk about the plethora of AMD GPU driver updates.
Chris: New DRM Panic supports. You get the fancy blue screen now with AMD devices.
Wes: Yeah, we talked about that a whole bunch. But as a reminder,
Wes: to take advantage of some of that new functionality, there needed to be per
Wes: graphics driver support.
Wes: So now we're finally seeing that on the AMD side. It was already in a bunch
Wes: of like the base ones and the Intel side.
Chris: We're seeing early support LAN for the RX90 Zero Series GPUs and beyond.
Chris: And the big one is the AMD P-State driver update, which makes big improvements
Chris: for laptop power management and efficiency for AMD systems. But there's an interesting twist in here.
Chris: The maintainer of the Linux power management subsystem,
Chris: is an intel employee uh and you know this release was just a lot of amd code and so the intel guy,
Chris: is the one that is you know actually going through this and submitting it upstream
Chris: and this is what he wrote for the patch for 614 he writes the majority of changes
Chris: are cpu frequency updates which are dominated by amdp state driver changes like
Chris: in the previous cycle Moreover,
Chris: changes related to AMD P-State are also the majority of the CPU power utility updates.
Chris: Indeed, there are some pieces of new hardware support, like the addition of
Chris: the Clearwater Forest processors to support the Intel idle.
Chris: And there are some other improvements for other Intel chips in there.
Chris: But the vast majority of the updates for this 613 and 614 kernel have been from AMD.
Chris: And this Intel maintainer is doing his job, doing a great job,
Chris: is submitting all of this upstream. And I just find that to be a beautiful irony
Chris: of free software development.
Wes: It also makes me think, I mean, A, there's probably a lot of nice benefits for
Wes: these employees of diverse companies working together on some of this stuff.
Wes: Maybe there's insights or, you know, learnings from each other.
Wes: But also, like, in a way, just open source sort of erodes some of the,
Wes: artificial's too strong of a word, but I'm going to say artificial boundaries
Wes: imposed by, like, the corporate structure of things.
Wes: Like, here are a bunch of CPU nerds who are now nerding out together to make
Wes: all of the CPUs work better.
Chris: Seeing what common problems they're solving and also both actively contributing
Chris: to these release cycles, Intel and AMD,
Chris: and both actively preemptively contributing bits before the products are even
Chris: in the marketplace, which is so critical when you think about the time delay.
Chris: So Linux 6.14 is going to be in the most recent Fedora and Ubuntu,
Chris: but it'll be quite a while before 6.14 is in any of the LTSs or RHEL.
Chris: So when they get that groundwork in there now, people that take advantage of
Chris: the in-between distribution releases get to use the drivers,
Chris: but it takes years before it's in the enterprise-grade stuff.
Chris: And so it's really incumbent upon them to try to get this stuff in as early
Chris: as possible and that's why before they've even finished all of the driver work
Chris: they're getting the primitives in now as early as they can so that way the next
Chris: cycle they can just get you know a little bit more in there and then,
Chris: hopefully get it out to end users as fast as possible we'll see but that's the
Chris: that's the interesting game that they both have to play and both AMD and Intel
Chris: just by watching this do seem very committed to that process they're getting it done.
Chris: 1Password.com slash unplugged. That's the number 1Password.com and then unplugged all lowercase.
Chris: You want to go there to support the show and to learn more about 1Password.
Chris: Here's how I like to think about this. I have a question for you.
Chris: Do your end users always, and
Chris: I mean to always use the IT approved applications, services, and devices?
Chris: I don't know if any users do. I think there's just so much out there now.
Chris: There's so much getting pushed at them from a consumer level from a this is
Chris: going to change how you work level.
Chris: So how do you keep your company's data safe when it's sitting in all these unmanaged apps or devices?
Chris: That's where 1Password comes in. Again, it's 1Password.com slash unplug.
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Chris: Go to onepassword.com slash unplugged. That's onepassword.com slash unplugged.
Brent: Now, as with many previous kernels, we do see a little bit of gaming love in Linux 6.14 as well.
Brent: Looks like the Linux 6.14 kernel will officially include the completed NTSync
Brent: driver, which is a major improvement for Linux gamers using Wine and Proton,
Brent: especially via Steam Play or SteamOS.
Chris: An NTSync feature in our Linux kernel?
Wes: Yeah, that's right. It's kind of neat, right? Now we have a specific synchronization
Wes: primitive enabled inside the
Wes: kernel specifically to support compatibility with Windows applications.
Chris: Very fascinating. They say here, The driver enhances the emulation of Windows
Chris: NT synchronization primitives, which are critical for accurately replicating
Chris: Windows behavior and improving performance in many Windows games running on Linux.
Chris: Though NTSync was introduced in Linux 13, it was initially incomplete and not functional.
Chris: 6.14 marks its full implementation and usability.
Chris: As for the motivation behind the work, well, it's clear in the benchmarks.
Chris: The gains vary widely depending on the application and the user's hardware,
Chris: but for some games, anti-synchronization is not a bottleneck,
Chris: and so no change will be noticed.
Chris: Some other games, though, improvements 50% to even 150% are normal.
Wes: Yeah, okay, so there is some nuance here as well.
Wes: Right now, this is specifically helpful for, or going to be, for Upstream Wine,
Wes: and it is the newest and shiniest and most compatible with Windows implementation,
Wes: but there's been earlier attempts,
Wes: specifically eSync and fSync, which have basically been gaming-focused mechanisms
Wes: to enable improvements to emulating games specifically.
Wes: And since I think like kernel 514, we've had Futex 2 in the kernel,
Wes: which Proton is patched Upstream Wine to take advantage of.
Wes: But I think Upstream Wine does not, partially because it was kind of gaming
Wes: focused and there were some thoughts that it was kind of a hack and didn't really
Wes: like the specific interface being created for Wine and Proton.
Chris: And it doesn't solve it for all games, like solves it for some of the games,
Chris: which is why some of these games won't see an improvement.
Wes: And the root of this is, okay, so in the Windows world, you've got the Windows NT kernel.
Wes: It's pretty different than a Unix-y, Linux-style kernel influenced by stuff like VMS.
Wes: And there's a whole bunch of objects, and you have handles to these objects,
Wes: which if you've ever done Windows programming, you've seen handles freaking everywhere, right?
Wes: And if you're a game or just a program, often you need to wait for things, right?
Wes: So like in a game, it might be wait to be told that like the frame I wanted
Wes: to draw is done painting or copying to the GPU memory or whatever it is.
Wes: Or I need to wait for a keyboard or a mouse event for the user to do my next thing.
Wes: Or maybe a network package shows up telling you what the enemy participant did
Wes: and how to update their game state.
Wes: And so there's oftentimes where you've done your immediate work and so you want
Wes: to say like, hey, wake me up when any of these things happens and then based
Wes: on what it is, I know what to do next to advance the process.
Wes: And due to the way Windows is designed, they've got some pretty nice APIs for this,
Wes: including wait for multiple objects so you can kind of just hand it a whole
Wes: smattering of things that you want to wait for regardless of it's like a file
Wes: handle or a network thing or some status update to a particular process or thread,
Wes: and Windows will set that up for you and while Linux has things like ePoll and
Wes: other mechanisms to specifically wait for things like file handles there's various.
Wes: Equivalencies of course because right ultimately windows and
Wes: linux make your computer work in roughly the same way but the
Wes: apis are different enough that like originally
Wes: wine had to have kind of like a helper thread or process that
Wes: could sort of translate between the windows system call
Wes: in user space and then implement it under the hood with
Wes: the right kernel features and as you can imagine like
Wes: that's not going to perform super great some of it was fine
Wes: for some things it did work but like it was just going to hit bottlenecks
Wes: especially with games and so that's where we've had multiple attempts
Wes: with esync and then fsync which has been the most successful and widely
Wes: used with proton but now finally we're getting
Wes: ntsync which is it prioritizes compatibility so
Wes: it's like the best translation in the kernel for this style
Wes: of synchronization primitive but it also looks like it has some quite nice performance
Wes: gains so especially for upstream wine you're going to see those big numbers
Wes: that you're seeing reported if you're doing proton it there's still it has not
Wes: yet adapted in theory in the future they'll probably switch to ntsync and there'll
Wes: be some slight performance improvements and compatibility improvements.
Chris: And like from a practical standpoint for end users they're going to get essentially
Chris: a new device a new virtual device right like a slash dev slash ntsync device.
Wes: Yeah and that's uh the mechanism for how things can sort of go request that
Wes: and wait on it from the kernel yeah.
Chris: And each each time each process opens up the device they get a unique instance
Chris: but it's shared across threads which is so they get like their own id but there's
Chris: some shared space there too.
Wes: Yeah and that's usually the case right so for processes they have different
Wes: memory space and threads get to share so that way you can have multiple threads
Wes: that are doing things but they can all be they can like share waiting or locks
Wes: or use that use that for a shared synchronization primitive to like communicate between threads.
Chris: Sort of like the fuse iou ring improvements we talked about earlier in the show
Chris: This NTSync that is definitely targeted at gaming right now seems like there
Chris: would be other complex Windows applications that would benefit this.
Chris: From this. And so while it is initially useful for gaming, I could see in a
Chris: year or two, we've discovered some other application that didn't work before
Chris: is now working because of this too.
Wes: Yeah. Right. In the big picture, it's just like a big, nice step up for our
Wes: Linux's ability to be compatible with Windows applications through Wine.
Wes: It's just cool because, I mean, there's already, again, there's already been
Wes: some of these kinds of efforts, but just the idea that the kernel is being adapted
Wes: to support this non-emulation user space thing of wine that somehow seems to
Wes: work surprisingly well.
Wes: That's just that takes a lot of coordination and planning and years of effort
Wes: to get across the finish line.
Wes: And like, you know, folks had to make the case that, hey, you know,
Wes: people are trying to run programs not even intended for the operating system
Wes: you designed, but can you make this change, please?
Chris: That we're going to sell on this proprietary hardware.
Wes: Yeah, right.
Chris: But it does show you that if you've got good code that works and you're willing
Chris: to do the work and you show up to the Linux community,
Chris: kernel community with you know proof of receipts they're probably going to take
Chris: it uh they're they're they're really pretty much down to take most things if
Chris: you're doing the maintenance you're doing the the legwork you know like yeah.
Wes: And you have you can point to real you know use cases or people who want it.
Chris: This is how samsung got a samba server in the kernel west jeff.
Wes: Makes a good point too and this is definitely true right through the history
Wes: of computing games have often been one of the best ways.
Chris: To sort of.
Wes: Like push the limits for how to make these things happen.
Chris: I agree i agree and And that's why I think we'll fix it for gaming.
Chris: And then we'll discover some other complicated application.
Wes: Just in time so Brent can switch back to Lightroom.
Chris: Now, we were thinking, and we'd like to hear your thoughts, about maybe doing
Chris: a gaming episode next week. Nothing crazy.
Chris: Maybe just one or two games, and then also a bit of a hardware update.
Chris: So even if you're not a gaming person, there'll be some hardware talk in there, too.
Chris: So if you have thoughts on gaming on Linux, a game you're loving right now,
Chris: particularly those that support co-op, send them in to us.
Chris: Boost them in, or go to linuxunplugged.com slash contact and let us know.
Chris: Because we've been thinking about doing a gaming episode literally for about two years.
Chris: So maybe we'll do it next week. We've got a couple of things.
Chris: I got a new device in-house.
Chris: Remind me to show it to you after the episode. It's pretty slick.
Chris: I want to talk about that next week. So that's been on our mind.
Chris: It's been a long time. The gaming episodes tend not to be super popular.
Chris: So if you don't want us to do it, you can let us know too.
Chris: I don't know. It's like, it's always hit and miss.
Wes: You know, if we really got ahead of it, we could do like a gaming meetup.
Wes: If we were playing a game, people could join.
Chris: Well, okay. How about this is a goal. We come up with a co-op LAN style game
Chris: that we could try that we could use at Linux Fest. And we demo it.
Chris: So we would love some suggestions for that because I literally don't know.
Wes: Maybe producer Jeff could help.
Chris: The other thing to kind of just sort of think on for Linux Fest is where we,
Chris: oh, maybe in the room where we do luck.
Chris: Maybe we could do it in the room. That could be interesting.
Chris: Anyways, something that's been on our mind, new hardware and all of that.
Chris: So let us know your thoughts there.
Chris: And I don't think anything's ready yet to try out this new NTSync thing.
Chris: I wish we had an opportunity to test it with a game.
Chris: But when one does, I'm already going to be on 614, so I'll be ready.
Chris: Did you know your ad could be right here, right now? I could be talking about your company.
Chris: Your Linux Unplugged podcast is looking to book a sponsor, and we're running
Chris: a special for the second half of Q2.
Chris: Now, you know we're kind of picky who we work with, which has limited us,
Chris: but if you're listening to this show, well, that's a good start.
Chris: Chances are you could be a great fit. So if you want to reach the world's largest
Chris: Linux audience on a show that never misses a week and has been going for nearly
Chris: 12 years strong, Reach out to me, chris at jupiterbroadcasting.com.
Chris: I'd love to work out a deal with somebody who's in the community that has a
Chris: business or a product or a service that they'd like to reach.
Chris: We'll make a pretty good deal.
Chris: And I think it could be neat. I don't know. Chris at jupiterbroadcasting.com.
Chris: That's all you need to know.
Brent: Well, we got a special little piece of mail here from Grant who asks a little
Brent: for some advice, let's say.
Brent: It says, greetings, Chris, Wes, and Brent. I keep hearing you guys talk about
Brent: this Nix thing, so I'm finally going for it.
Brent: I was wondering if you have any tips for Nix OS configs on a laptop specifically.
Brent: From what I research, so far most of it has to do with power optimization while on battery.
Brent: Since using Linux on a laptop is literally Linux Unplugged, maybe another question
Brent: is what are some community recommendations for Linux on a laptop?
Brent: Love to hear what the best Linux community around, Linux Unplugged, has to say about this.
Brent: And thanks in advance from Grant.
Chris: That's a good question, Grant. I feel like I'm going to be in the laptop market
Chris: towards the end of the year.
Chris: It has been interesting living on Asahi on the MacBook and very limiting.
Chris: And I eventually want to get something, but I want a very nice laptop experience.
Chris: Something real smooth. Framework's a contender. Of course, I'm going to look
Chris: at System76. I'm going to be
Chris: looking at ThinkPads too. But I think Grant's asking two questions here.
Chris: Number one, what is a great distro hardware combo?
Chris: And, like, what should he look into for Nix to pre-set up his Nix for the best
Chris: chances on that hardware?
Chris: Like, I know Brent has looked at a config specifically for framework laptops.
Wes: Yeah, well, there's the NixOS hardware community repo. So that's one place you can pull in stuff.
Chris: That's the thing.
Wes: You know, because, right, a lot of it is going to be making sure you're fully enabled,
Wes: whatever settings or kernel parameters or driver options for your specific rig
Wes: because after that honestly you know the linux world's gotten a little bit better
Wes: i've been pretty pleased with the power management options at least in things
Wes: like plasma and gnome very.
Chris: True and even in the last couple of releases there's been some nice improvements.
Wes: So there are you know various uh demons and things like power top and tools
Wes: to monitor but for the most part i'm not currently fussing with those as much as i used to yeah.
Chris: I just leave mine in balanced mode for the most part and then power saver when
Chris: I need it and boost when I need it.
Chris: I just, what I'm looking for is, it's Brent, he has the framework with,
Chris: I think it's the 12th gen MOBO, right Brent?
Brent: Yes, it is.
Chris: And you have this problem that I witness all the time when you're around where
Chris: you close up the laptop and then you come back to it a couple hours later and it's hot.
Brent: Yeah, I have to say like maybe two out of 10 times. I guess that's one out of five.
Brent: I will pick my laptop out of my bag and it'll be roasting. The rest of the time
Brent: it kind of behaves as it should.
Brent: I've been trying to figure out what is the combination of what I'm doing that causes that to happen.
Brent: Now, Jeff, I know you've struggled with this kind of thing before,
Brent: and you probably have a bunch of advice for me. But it has, I would say, gotten better.
Brent: So there's constantly tweaks happening where Wes suggested in the Nixos hardware
Brent: repo to try to solve some of these common problems.
Brent: But it seems, I don't know, suspend is just in not so great a place as it was
Brent: like, let's say, on an old ThinkPad laptop from back in the day.
Brent: So it is something that's getting better, and there are some tweaks you can
Brent: do, but I got to say, like, as a warning, part of the reality is sometimes it just doesn't go so hot.
Chris: PJ, I'd like to hear your thoughts, but I would think if he's on a pretty modern
Chris: kernel and he's using a 12th gen system, which has been out for a few years,
Chris: shouldn't that be best? And it's all Intel. Shouldn't that be best case scenario?
Mumble: I think the framework specifically does have S3 sleep and that's one of the
Mumble: biggest problems that we're seeing with modern laptops is Intel and AMD have
Mumble: kind of pushed away from that and it's up to the motherboard,
Mumble: really the upstream, you know, laptop maker to put it back in and everything
Mumble: defaults to S5 sleep, which doesn't fully shut down.
Mumble: With the frameworks i've seen that you
Mumble: need to go into the bios and turn off usb power
Mumble: because all the little dongles will just sit there and suck suck power down
Mumble: when it's trying to sleep even even if it is an s3 so you might be seeing that
Mumble: but it's a problem my lenovo does it my last hp did it it's all s5 these things
Mumble: aren't actually going to suspend a ram they're just basically shutting the screen off tiny.
Chris: On the other end though you're on a framework using fedora.
Mumble: Yes um fedora is just switched from using ppb ppd to toondy and it's really
Mumble: nice because you can nest profiles so you could have the uh default balancer
Mumble: laptop profile and then make your own little changes on top.
Chris: Yeah, okay. So that's, you know, maybe the advantage to having a distribution,
Chris: tune that stuff for you. Something Brent could look into, I suppose.
Wes: On NixOS, I see there's a power management option, which has stuff like CPU
Wes: frequencies in here, power top, you know, all kinds of stuff.
Wes: Power profiles, daemon's an option as well. So there's various things in NixOS too.
Chris: Boy, I'd love a great experience on my next laptop. Something really,
Chris: you know, hassle-free, works with distros, just great, has some decent little
Chris: performance for maybe some basic gaming and sleeps.
Wes: I was going to say, in general for laptops, I think we've all been pretty happy.
Wes: I mean, it's not laptop-specific, but happy with things like ZRAMP.
Chris: Yeah, yeah. I think there are also compromises to be made.
Chris: If I could get it to boot super fast, I could possibly live without sleep, I suppose.
Chris: I don't love that, but that could always be a route I could explore if it meant
Chris: I could have a fantastic laptop that I really love, that might be a compromise I could make.
Wes: By fantastic, you mean loud fans, right?
Chris: Yeah, no, I do not, sir. I do not.
Chris: Yes, it is, and we start with our baller booster this week, who is the tech geek with 45,000 sats.
Chris: And he just sends along, hey, JB team, keep up the good work.
Chris: Well, thank you for the value.
Wes: Turd Ferguson boosts in with 41,088 sats.
Wes: Oh, this is a triple turd.
Chris: Oh, gosh.
Wes: Boosting the 2i challenge.
Chris: Uh-oh envy.
Wes: Top it's not just for nvidia did you know intel amd and even at least sorta
Wes: the m1 and m2 gpus are supported.
Chris: Envy top huh it sounds like it's for nvidia okay.
Wes: Another trip here brent's traveling uh we could just if it was a website is brent.
Chris: Traveling it'd just be yes yeah uh.
Wes: Pack trippy the 2i love child of ping and trace route.
Chris: Sounds like you could have used.
Wes: This just the other day actually.
Chris: Do we know about trippy i.
Wes: Don't know if we do.
Chris: It's a 2e huh let's go look this up trippy uh a network diagnostic tool oh my
Chris: god it's a riff it's a riff on the clippy logo too which is funny oh i like
Chris: this i like this a lot brent i think you could use that i could use this actually what's.
Wes: It written in.
Chris: The question oh look at that did you know this already no.
Wes: I just wanted to know.
Chris: Yeah 99.6 rest it's.
Brent: Not 100 but i'll take it.
Chris: Yeah it's pretty close so that's trippy all right that's good um now do we have
Chris: you said there was three of them.
Wes: Yes i did there's one more worried you might get bored during the two-week challenge
Wes: try tty solitaire now with mouse support.
Chris: Tty solitaire all right solid.
Wes: You know they told you your flight would have wi-fi it doesn't but you already
Wes: downloaded tty solitaire turd.
Chris: Ferguson coming in with some good two-y picks. I'm feeling the two-y energy.
Chris: I'm feeling like this challenge is going to happen, boys. I'm feeling it.
Wes: Are there any two-y games we can combine these two things?
Chris: Well, there's the Solitaire, I suppose. I suppose.
Brent: You know, on my flight to this here continent, there was someone the entire
Brent: flight that played Solitaire, and I could not believe it, but maybe...
Chris: With cards?
Brent: No, no, no, no, no. On their phone.
Chris: My wife could do it with cards. She brings a deck of cards in her purse.
Wes: It's a great idea to have.
Chris: We were out and about last night, and we had a half hour to kill with the shuttle,
Chris: so she just busts out the cards. She just goes to it. Great battery life.
Brent: Wakangaroo Paradox came in with 30,000 sats across three boosts.
Brent: Great coverage of the rust drama recently i really appreciated the objective
Brent: breakdown of events and your take on it also loved the deep dive sorry brent he says i think oh.
Chris: You know brent you know hold on brent's.
Wes: Got a reputation.
Brent: No i was trying to speed right past that one so you wouldn't have a chance to play it,
Brent: shakes fist at you both he continues
Brent: here i think you could sprinkle these once
Brent: in a while and that could be enjoyable for people who aren't super technical
Brent: good way to learn things too also plus
Brent: one for the tui challenge i'm all for spending as much time as possible in the
Brent: terminal versus the browser i think a tui challenge with a point penalty for
Brent: mouse usage could be a fun spin oh love the planet nix coverage could not justify
Brent: flying from europe to go for a couple days over 1,000 euros total for that trip.
Brent: Can we expect you guys to make the trip to NixCon EU, maybe, in the coming years?
Brent: These usually take place October-ish in Germany or around there.
Brent: I imagine the price would be an issue, but, you know, the beer here is worth it.
Wes: Yes.
Chris: The truthful answer is, I imagine when my kids are a bit older,
Chris: I'll probably be traveling on longer trips, where I could go somewhere I could
Chris: spend like two weeks, or a week.
Chris: You know that would be really great but that'll probably
Chris: still be a couple of years maybe every now and then you know i never want to say
Chris: never you never know right maybe wes could talk me into something i think
Chris: you guys can be pretty convincing when you put your minds to it thank you for
Chris: the boost congo it's good to hear from you the musa came in with 5 000 sats
Chris: firstly i finally got around to say in my own bitcoin note with nick's bitcoin
Chris: hey that's great to hear and i'm using AlbiHub,
Chris: thanks to Wes and the community for providing a good starting point to do so.
Chris: I am personally excited for GNOME 48, as controlling the Orca screen reader
Chris: under Waylon has taken a big step forward.
Chris: I've wanted to get XOR off for ages now.
Chris: Come May and Nix2505, I may just be able to do that. That's great to hear.
Wes: Yeah, that's rad.
Chris: Yeah, there is some nice changes there. And Wes, look at you,
Chris: helping people get AlbiHub up and going.
Wes: Yeah, and props to folks like the muso and draca who uh have taken the leads
Wes: on getting the module going i got a base flake happening but also i've been
Wes: negligent so this is a great reminder uh i'll go try to see if i can spend some
Wes: time in that repo adversary 17 boosts in with 5 000 sats,
Wes: The Dynamic We Don't Even Knows are pretty funny.
Chris: Oh, yeah. The members version somehow got set up with Dynamic AI inserted ads
Chris: for all kinds of crazy things.
Wes: We got a good kick out of them the whole show.
Chris: Thank you.
Wes: Of course, the only proper song to play on the Clinton sexy saxophone is Careless Whisper.
Chris: That was true. Yeah, that would have been, yeah, that's true.
Chris: Nice to hear from you adversaries. Thank you.
Brent: Well, Brooke Loves You sent in 3,535 sets.
Brent: Hey jb have y'all tried kd plasma
Brent: mobile yet i'm daily driving that thing on my minis forum v3 with fedora and
Brent: it's pretty awesome i recommend giving linux on a tablet a try if y'all haven't
Brent: in a while or even at all keep up the good work and thanks for making my work
Brent: travel more enjoyable this.
Chris: Is a great suggestion brooke and you're kind of reading my mind,
Chris: this Friday I was browsing Amazon looking to see if there's like quote-unquote
Chris: Linux x86 tablets or even Linux ARM tablets.
Chris: You know, I do this thing where I have tablets around the home and I want to
Chris: have more in the studio to like control home assist in different areas and why
Chris: have Android on there when I could have Linux on there and it would give me
Chris: an excuse to play with Plasma Mobile properly which I've only ever done in emulators.
Wes: And it's probably more realistic. I was going to say we pressured Brent because
Wes: it seems like his kind of thing.
Chris: Yeah, yeah, you're right.
Wes: If you're already doing it. Or we get double cores.
Chris: Well, I could take my learnings and use that to pressure him.
Wes: Or Flash's stuff and set them up.
Chris: With me, if you get me in right, you know, the right mode, I'll do it in a Flash.
Chris: But with Brent, it's going to take like two years, you know,
Chris: before Brent gets an Android tablet that runs Linux.
Brent: Well, you know, only one of us carries two devices in their pockets.
Brent: So I think, you know, having a backup built in, you're more suited for this thing.
Chris: Thank you for the boost, Brooke. Appreciate it. Ambient Noise comes in with 3,930 sats.
Chris: And they say, sorry, this took so long, but here is my write-up on how to control
Chris: the front gate via MeshTastic and MQTT.
Chris: Oh, yes.
Wes: Awesome.
Chris: This was one of the things we wondered would be, could you do IoT control with MeshTastic?
Chris: He sends us his GitHub repo, which we will include in the show notes,
Chris: and it's instructions to create an MQTT controlled input and output board that
Chris: runs its own logic on low power radio instances.
Chris: And you can use it to control your gate.
Wes: Neat.
Chris: That is so...
Wes: A whole bunch of comments in here too.
Chris: I'm saving that. I am saving that. That was really great. Thank you for sending that in, AmbientNoise.
Chris: And well done. Well done. Thank you, everybody who participated,
Chris: including you SAT streamers. 25 of you stream SATs.
Chris: We stacked a humble 22,923 SATs.
Chris: Not too bad for those of you just sitting back and enjoying the show.
Chris: Thank you very much for doing that.
Chris: Then we combined that with all the people that generously boosted in with the
Chris: message. We read the ones above the 2,000-sat cutoff line.
Chris: And we stacked 156,476 sats. Not our strongest week.
Chris: I'm not going to say it's a total loss, though. But, you know, it could be better.
Chris: It could be better, especially with some of our ambitious plans we have coming
Chris: up for the rest of the year.
Chris: So if you'd like to get in on the fun, there's a few ways to do it.
Chris: But you've got to get some sats.
Chris: Strike is a great way to do it. in over 110 countries, River in the US, Bitcoin Well in Canada.
Chris: Get those sats, send them over to Lightning to a podcasting 2.0 app like Fountain.
Chris: The workflows also in Fountain are really simple too now. They're getting easier
Chris: and easier to just do it within all one app.
Chris: And it just keeps getting better. You can send your message in and we'll read
Chris: it on the show above 2,000 sats.
Chris: Thank you everybody who supports this episode and all 31 of you who boosted
Chris: in and supported episode 608 of your Unplugged program. It really does mean a lot to us.
Chris: We appreciate it. And of course, Big shout out to our members who keep us going, too.
Chris: You are all fantastic and much appreciated.
Chris: Well, moving right along, gentlemen, moving right along, we have a pick that
Chris: may help some of you break your grammarly habit.
Wes: Oh.
Chris: Have you wondered what are you going to do to get over your grammarly habit?
Wes: Finally, take back your freedom from big grammar.
Chris: Yep. Well, that's where Eloquent comes in. It runs as a local service in the
Chris: background to do local offline, I guess, proofreading.
Chris: It uses a language tool server, and it's available as a backend instance to
Chris: Firefox, LibreOffice, and others. It is GPL 3.
Chris: It does also have a little standalone desktop GUI where you can paste your text
Chris: in and then it gives you a Grammarly-esque pop-up to do spelling.
Wes: Neat.
Chris: No, if people have never used Grammarly, they have no idea what I'm talking
Chris: about, but it's sort of like grammar and spelling and sentence structure all in one.
Chris: And it's a good service, but to do this,
Chris: they're reading everything you write and they want to integrate into everything
Chris: constantly and the fact that you could actually run this as a back-end instance
Chris: for firefox which i have not done well it looks really great like that is the
Chris: perfect combination for me um and it is also available as a flat hub.
Wes: Well and this backing tool is cool language tool open source proofreading software.
Chris: Yeah english.
Wes: Spanish french german portuguese polish dutch and more than 20 other languages.
Chris: Yeah.
Wes: Finds many errors that a simple spell checker cannot detect.
Chris: There's a collection of tooling out there right now, like this language tool,
Chris: and Piper from the Homosystem folks in Whisper, which do text-to-speech and
Chris: speech-to-text, and then they have their Wyoming protocol, which lets it communicate.
Chris: All of it is open source, all of it running on Linux, and we're not doing anything
Chris: with it. It's really weird.
Wes: Maybe that's some show projects we need to get ahead of.
Chris: You can actually even train your own voices with it. You can have it model on
Chris: your own voice and generate stuff.
Chris: It's just right there for the taking.
Chris: And some project just needs to integrate it into some sort of application or something.
Chris: I mean, it's very useful in Home Assistant.
Wes: Right, of course.
Chris: But Piper alone and Whisper alone just feels like there's a lot of potential there.
Chris: Anyways, today we're talking about Eloquent, and we'll have a link to that in
Chris: the show notes should you want to check it out.
Wes: I also see it looks like there's some stuff that does makes like a language
Wes: or an LSP implementation on top of language tool so you can get this kind of
Wes: stuff in your VS code too baby.
Chris: And don't forget we're trying to raise some funds for headset for the boys so
Chris: if you got any tips for gaming or games you love or co-op games something we
Chris: can do at Linux Fest do boost in and support the show with a contribution towards
Chris: the headsets and a message we could read we really do appreciate that and then,
Chris: we'd love to see you at Linux Fest in just 25 days.
Chris: Link to the schedule and all of that is in the show notes as well and
Chris: you know where you find that get ready for this linuxunplugged.com
Chris: slash 608 that's all you need to know linuxunplugged.com
Chris: slash 608 and of course we love it when you join us live it just gives it a
Chris: vibe and we make it a tuesday on a sunday it begins at 10 a.m pacific of course
Chris: we have it in your local time at jupiterbroadcasting.com slash calendar.
Chris: If you're enjoying a podcasting 2.0 app, I try to get it marked as pending 24 hours ahead of time.
Chris: So you can just tap play in your podcasting app of choice.
Chris: It's pretty cool. It's pretty nice. That mumble room gets fired up too.
Chris: It's cranking now that we're going and details for that are jupiterbroadcasting.com slash mumble.
Chris: Last but not least, if you're looking for a little something extra,
Chris: go check out The Launch. It's on the JB site and weeklylaunch.rocks. It's a brand new show.
Chris: Thanks so much for joining us. See you next Sunday.