Brent: You know, I realized, you know, those cigars you got for the van success,
Brent: we should have smoked those with Drew, just saying.
Wes: Now we've got to go back to Denver.
Chris: We keep putting off the success cigars. I think the key thing I was waiting
Chris: for is, what really makes them special is you smoke them while you're going
Chris: down the road, and you crack the windows, and you get like a half a day of cigar smell going.
Brent: Oh. Oh, so you and I need to be on the same road trip and Wes can be there too
Brent: in the backseat. And then I got another empty seat.
Chris: We should play on something. Just smoke that place out.
Brent: I mean, it'd probably make it smell better. It smells like the 90s in here.
Chris: Hey, I like the 90s.
Chris: Hello, friends, and welcome back to our weekly Linux talk show. My name is Chris.
Wes: My name is Wes.
Brent: And my name is Brent.
Chris: Hello, gentlemen. It's really everyone's weekly talk show. It's kind of an open
Chris: source weekly talk show.
Chris: And today, I'm going to confess to my biggest smart home failure in probably seven years.
Chris: And it happened the night right before our Texas trip.
Chris: I'll tell you what broke, how I kind of pulled it all back together,
Chris: how Wes would probably fix it right, and then my future build plans.
Chris: They'll round out the show with some great picks, some boosts,
Chris: some shout-outs, and more.
Chris: So before we go any further, got to say time-appropriate greetings to that virtual lug.
Chris: Hello, Mumble Room. There's one of you in the audience.
Mumble: Hello.
Chris: Hello.
Mumble: Hello, hello, hello. I'll say it for everyone. Hello.
Chris: Oh, I see Minimax up there staging. We have Autobrain inbound and a bunch of
Chris: people up in quiet listening, too.
Chris: Everybody's sneaking in right under the deadline, right as the intro music's going.
Chris: Also, a big good morning to Define.net slash Unplugged. Go meet Defined Networking,
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Chris: Now, we have just, I wanted to say thanks again. Not a lot in the housekeeping,
Chris: but thank you again to everybody who made, I think, one of the best trips we've
Chris: done in a while. I think it was my favorite trip of the year.
Brent: What made it your favorite?
Chris: Well, the race was a good part of it. That was a lot of fun, racing down.
Brent: Only because you won.
Chris: No, I think it would have been fun either way. I think that would have,
Chris: because it was just a good challenge.
Wes: Yeah, I mean, we got to see a bunch of the country. We ran into listeners and,
Wes: like, various interesting things along the way.
Wes: and right then the destination we got to see you and
Wes: your cats and see the van again and see everybody at
Wes: texas linux fest and visit austin which is always a good time plus we were able
Wes: to swing by system 76 and drew which we hadn't planned for at all when we set
Wes: out on the voyage so yeah i think in terms of like both achieving what we set
Wes: out for and like you know the uh
Wes: randomness of the road rolled in our favor.
Chris: Yeah it was it was nice to have the flexibility and have
Chris: the creative license that the audience trusted us with to go
Chris: out there and do it and then having an event in october and it'll be november
Chris: next year it's it's just it was the right amount of time after just event after
Chris: event after event and we sort of had a breather so it was we were recharged
Chris: and ready to go again um so i thought it was the best trip i guess you probably
Chris: partied pretty hard at pretty hardy in nix vegas.
Wes: That's true yeah that was a that was It was also a spectacular trip,
Wes: but I didn't have you guys with me. So, you know, I can only hit so high.
Chris: We also have some good news. After a lot of hard work by Mr.
Chris: Westpain, our Matrix server is back online.
Wes: Yeah, sorry about that, everyone. Thanks for your patience. Several billion
Wes: state groups, state rows later, here we are.
Chris: Many, yeah, multiple numbers of billions. Yeah, it was a lot.
Wes: Yeah, and more than a terabyte of data gone.
Chris: Yeah.
Wes: In a good way.
Chris: Yeah. So there's been some account cleanups.
Wes: Yeah, main thing here is mostly just, well, let us know if you see stuff that's
Wes: broken. And in particular, we suspended a bunch of stale accounts.
Wes: But if we suspended anyone by mistake, do reach out.
Chris: Let us know. Thank you.
Chris: Okay, so, I mean, I've been doing the smart home thing for a while,
Chris: tinkered with various different platforms, you know, the Amazon platform,
Chris: the Google platform, the Apple platform, but inevitably would burn out on them
Chris: or would have some sort of issue.
Chris: about seven years ago I think I discovered Home Assistant,
Chris: and it really started, kicked off the I'd say smart home lifestyle and it's been now,
Chris: I only buy things that will integrate with Home Assistant and they integrate
Chris: out of the box so I don't do the thing where I buy a smart product and see later
Chris: on maybe I can make it work with Home Assistant It's.
Wes: Kind of like the dance Linux users are used to, right? Yes You buy hardware
Wes: with your software in mind. Although I think in both cases, right, it's gotten better.
Chris: Yes, very much so. But just to underscore it, when the device goes in,
Chris: whether it be a fan or a heater or a bug controller or lights for a barbecue
Chris: area or a heater in a bathroom or whatever,
Chris: it's integrated into Home Assistant first. And that's how it's always used initially.
Chris: It's never used in the way it comes out of the box. So to say it's integrated
Chris: into my home, my home is essentially a robot. I mean, it really is.
Chris: And it has made our quality of life better because we live in a small space
Chris: and having just climate control that is smart is really good.
Chris: But also what I learned later on into my home assistant journey is something
Chris: I don't think newbies out there that haven't gone down this path yet realize
Chris: is it's very useful to have data.
Chris: So if you have not deployed home assistant or you're a smart home skeptic,
Chris: please listen to this next point.
Chris: Having various bits of data about power usage in your home, water usage,
Chris: if you have solar, your solar production, water leaks, motion and presence logs, even long-term things.
Chris: Like I have sensors in my fridge and my freezer.
Chris: And I can see if it's not performing as well over time. And so I can start to
Chris: budget for a new fridge before my refrigerator fails.
Chris: These are really powerful tools that I don't think people realize are available
Chris: to them before they've gone down this journey.
Chris: So it's extremely useful. Like I could just never go back, at least not while living in Jubes.
Chris: But recently, I had one of the worst failures ever.
Chris: And it was the worst kind of timing. I was telling the boys about it.
Chris: It happened within a 24-hour window before we left for Austin.
Chris: And I realized it literally the night I was packing because I went to hit a
Chris: button and nothing happened. Oh, that's odd.
Wes: Oh, I can imagine. I can almost feel the sinking feeling, right?
Wes: At first, you're writing it off. Your brain's trying to explain it all away.
Wes: Oh, it's probably a temporary failure.
Wes: And then the evidence starts piling up.
Chris: How bad, Wes? How bad could it be? The other thing I noticed is in my office
Chris: slash the bathroom, because JOOPS is a small space after all.
Chris: the automatic lighting and heating wasn't working.
Chris: And so like when you enter the room, presence is detected and a WLED light strip
Chris: that's in a diffuser that spans the length of the wall turns on and in the night,
Chris: it's a real soft ambient glow.
Chris: And during the day, it's a little brighter and it just wasn't triggering at all.
Chris: And I noticed the heat wasn't triggering. So I start doing the math and I'm like, oh,
Chris: These are all Zigbee devices. These are all Zigbee devices that are not working.
Chris: So I sat down at Old Home Assistant, and the first thing I noticed is I had
Chris: never seen this before, but there was an update pending for my Zigbee radio.
Wes: And then just as a refresher here, you have smart devices of all kinds, right?
Wes: Like Wi-Fi connected, Zigbee connected, and Z-Wave connected.
Wes: And this is particularly a Zigbee issue.
Chris: Yes. So not everything was broken. So it wasn't obvious at first because a lot
Chris: of things are Z-Wave or Wi-Fi.
Chris: But it's the really low power cheap stuff because Zigbee is 2.4 gigahertz based.
Chris: You don't have to get it licensed.
Chris: And so it brings the cost down. It's like a lot of little plugs and buttons and stuff are Zigbee.
Chris: I won't be buying those anymore. But so I saw this firmware update,
Chris: which I'd never seen before for my Home Assistant Yellow's built in Zigbee radio
Chris: adapter. And I didn't apply it because I kind of wanted to figure out why things weren't working.
Chris: I did later install it as a troubleshoot. And I was like, you know,
Chris: when you're at the YOLO stage, you're like, all right, I'll try the firmware update.
Wes: Right, at this point. Is it going to break worse?
Chris: I don't know. Right, exactly. I did get to that point, but I wasn't there yet.
Chris: So I popped into the Zigbee integration, and I noticed that it was in a failed-to-initialized
Chris: state. And I noticed something was off.
Chris: Home Assistant now listed two identical Zigbee radios that had the same duplicate
Chris: devices. One was labeled like the Home Assistant Yellow Zigbee and one was labeled
Chris: Hub Z Zigbee Comport Controller.
Chris: did i maybe did i connect a second one right that's strange.
Wes: You like we're halfway through a switch.
Chris: Or playing.
Wes: With something forgot about it never went back the thing rebooted now it sees it.
Brent: Weren't you planning on buying an upgrade.
Chris: Yeah i thought well maybe i wanted to right i was like maybe i was gonna set
Chris: up an upgrade or something like that so you know i'm looking ls usb then i physically
Chris: look at the device i'm like no i only have one radio on this thing what's going on here,
Chris: Maybe there was something I had done wrong, but as far as I could tell,
Chris: a second ghost adapter had just shown up.
Chris: And I didn't really know what to do. I turned on the debug logs.
Chris: They told me that the Zigbee service couldn't start.
Chris: All of the online stuff says, well, maybe you have another integration that's conflicting. I did not.
Chris: So I YOLO'd in and I decided I'm going to delete one of these adapters,
Chris: but I don't know which one to delete.
Chris: Do I delete the one that's named correctly or this new ghost one that shows up?
Chris: I don't know, Brent, which one, in this case, which adapter rolling the dice would you delete?
Brent: Well, and I feel like you didn't necessarily look, you haven't looked at this
Brent: in the past because it's just like a thing you don't need to worry about.
Brent: So you don't actually have a memory of what it's named.
Brent: You didn't put a custom name on this adapter or anything. It's just like a 50-50?
Chris: Yeah.
Brent: Oh, gosh. I guess...
Brent: I guess I would want to delete the one that didn't sound like Linux had named it.
Wes: Okay, but in theory, Home Assistant was configured to work with the correctly named one.
Chris: Yes.
Wes: But was not working.
Chris: Correct. That was my thinking.
Wes: Yeah, okay. I can see the argument.
Chris: So I went ahead and I deleted the one labeled Home Assistant yellow Zigbee adapter.
Wes: Wow. That's risky. Wow.
Chris: No, I didn't know. And I'm like, and it's like, do I just lose all my devices? and my oh right.
Wes: Is this like a cascade delete that'll just.
Chris: Right okay and I have to repair everything or something and then also I'm doing
Chris: the math on like the cost could I could I just,
Chris: replace them with Zigbee versions but it's like 30 ish devices so maybe even
Chris: more it might be 60 I don't know it's a lot of devices it's between 60 and 30 this.
Wes: Is an unbudgeted.
Chris: Cost here exactly this.
Brent: Is how you know you have a problem.
Chris: Oh well you know there's a lot of sensors There's a lot of sensors and motion
Chris: and open and close sensors.
Chris: So I delete the one that's properly labeled, and I just hope that the generic
Chris: Hub Z Zigbee Comport controller one is the correct one.
Chris: I delete it, and I reboot the box because there isn't a built-in way to just restart Zigbee.
Chris: You just got to restart Home Assistant and reboot the whole box.
Chris: So I did that, and it came back up, and my Zigbee devices were just working.
Chris: and the Zigbee integration started and apparently I randomly picked the right
Chris: one to delete and everything resumed.
Chris: So I've been trying to track down what kind of happened here.
Chris: And my best guess is a firmware update, maybe I did apply it and I don't remember
Chris: or it was partially applied automatically.
Chris: It somehow changed the state of the radio and the Linux system underneath ended
Chris: up exposing multiple serial endpoints or something. when this happened. And then...
Chris: There was a conflict, the firmware update couldn't continue,
Chris: and things ended in this sort of hung state.
Chris: The Zigbee integration saw both endpoints trying to connect to it.
Chris: And by deleting the non-functional entry, I forced the Zigbee integration to
Chris: rebind to the working controller, even though maybe both were working,
Chris: I don't know, and then restored the network.
Chris: But I'm not sure. And the thing that sucks is the entire time I was in Texas,
Chris: none of the Zigbee devices were working. So a lot of the presence detection stuff was just broken.
Wes: And you couldn't do anything. You were on the road.
Chris: Couldn't do anything. And I have no idea what caused it, really.
Wes: And you hadn't, like, done some big update. Obviously, you hadn't done the firmware
Wes: update. That would maybe make sense if the name changed post-firmware.
Chris: I agree.
Brent: I have a theory.
Chris: Uh-huh. Please.
Brent: Your dear, lovely wife has been listening to you gripe about that,
Brent: you know, you need a new controller.
Brent: so she got some advice from you know close friends and got a new one and tried to like in the night,
Brent: plug it in and see if it just kind of worked and uh then all of a sudden everything
Brent: went wrong and she just quietly hid it and returned it to amazon.
Chris: I like this theory but wouldn't you be implicated in this story most likely i'm.
Brent: Just trying to save her at this point.
Chris: I did think it
Chris: was funny the day after i solved all of this not related but the day after i
Chris: solved all of this the home assistant team posted on x that they're ending production
Chris: of the home assistant yellow they're going to continue to support it so it's
Chris: still going to get patches and updates but that's no longer in production is.
Wes: It possible like home assistant did some sort of auto updates that happen.
Chris: I have to go in and turn them on it could have been it could have happened after
Chris: the last os update and i didn't notice at first because so many things were still working,
Chris: Um, because like Brent said, it's one of these things that you don't really
Chris: think about. It has been so consistent and so reliable.
Chris: And thankfully this turned out to be a pretty minor thing to correct.
Chris: The implications and the risk were high, but it was pretty minor thing.
Chris: Uh, but I, it has got me thinking about like what to do in the future.
Wes: Right. Cause this was stuff that was just shipped on the device,
Wes: right? You kind of just bought this one box to run home assistant with Zigbee built in.
Chris: And now it's out of production.
Wes: So you can't just hot swap into a new one.
Chris: Can't just hot swap i mean it'll be supportive for a while but and
Chris: also i think i'm outgrowing this even you know
Chris: i noticed this especially when we built brent's new home assistant
Chris: i just don't quite have enough horsepower but i also i kind of been rethinking
Chris: the way to do my mobile home lab and change up the hardware in general and it
Chris: seems like maybe this this home assistant yellow going out of you know going
Chris: end of life and my I need to kind of rework my home lab hardware in my RV for my mobile home lab.
Chris: The two things are kind of coming together, and I'm kind of starting to form a plan.
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Chris: you pay the first $500, and then CrowdHealth steps in with the crowd to fund the rest.
Chris: It feels like the options we used to have before Obamacare, in my opinion, messed everything up.
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Brent: Now, Chris, you and I care quite a lot about power usage. And,
Brent: well, you mentioned how stats is a game changer for you.
Brent: So I would imagine that's top of mind for you in designing this potential new situation.
Chris: The next-gen build. Can I call it that? I don't know. Is that too corny?
Chris: But it feels really... I feel like it's going to be my next-gen build.
Chris: Yeah, obviously Raspberry Pis could be one route. You get like a max of 10 watts there.
Wes: Yeah, did you jump off at the 4? When did you make it? Okay.
Wes: So there is at least a generation to change.
Chris: Of course, the N100 or N150 Intel platform, pretty competitive, 8 to 12 watts when idle.
Wes: Not bad.
Chris: Not too bad. And then there's the optimized TMM mini PC chips, 7 to 12 watts when idle.
Chris: And then, of course, a desktop PC is going to be like, what,
Chris: 45 watts, something like that when idle? That's not really an option.
Chris: If you're running off of a lithium battery bank and solar, every little watt
Chris: counts because it's always going, right?
Chris: It's a cumulative thing. so I think oh.
Wes: That's why you didn't include Xeon on the.
Chris: Right I think my ideal would be like an N100 N150 low power x86 PC that runs
Chris: everything so right now I have a pie hole and I have a,
Chris: raspberry pi that does camera feeds when I turn it on and then I have an oDroid that runs my,
Chris: entire self hosting home stack basically all the applications we talk about
Chris: on this show it's You know, got to be damn near 30 apps running on that thing.
Chris: And, you know, on the top of the list, Jellyfin and Nextcloud and ersatz TV
Chris: and, you know, like really important stuff that I use every single day.
Chris: So it's like a pretty critical box.
Chris: And why not replace that? Oh, and then I have the Home Assistant Yellow.
Chris: Why not replace all of those with one mini PC if possible?
Chris: That would be the ideal, right? But Home Assistant, Jellyfin and all the R tools
Chris: and Image and Nextcloud and ersatz, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
Chris: put that all on one system using VMs,
Chris: But I think I'm worried, and I would really like the audience's feedback here,
Chris: because I'm kind of hoping to do this early 2026.
Chris: I don't know if I can find a box powerful enough to host all that.
Chris: Because I want a significant upgrade for Home Assistant, but then I want the
Chris: headroom to run all of this stuff, and things like Image and ersatz TV that
Chris: need hardware acceleration.
Wes: And you're not really willing to cut things, at least to start, right? So, yeah.
Wes: You want more, but your power budget isn't more. Right.
Brent: But Chris, I remember your argument when you were orchestrating this current
Brent: build was you wanted Home Assistant on its own device so that if the machine
Brent: you keep adding more VMs to decides to, you know,
Brent: not go so hot, then your home stays consistent and stays constant and you're
Brent: never tinkering with that particular application.
Brent: So why the move away from that philosophy?
Chris: I think it's a great philosophy. I blame Wes.
Wes: What did I do?
Chris: Well, we were talking about it last night, and we'll get into it more.
Chris: And it just sort of like it... When you're switching to the Intel platform and
Chris: you're using more power...
Chris: I can't have multiple boxes. Like that's where my power savings has to come
Chris: from is I eliminate some of the boxes.
Chris: Because it's not just, it's like I'm going to put as much storage into these
Chris: things as possible. They're going to have external devices plugged into them. That draws power.
Chris: So as a matter of compromise, I think I'm going to go to VM isolation for like
Chris: things like Home Assistant or something and just do one box.
Chris: It's not really my preference, but because I want to get more out of Home Assistant,
Chris: I would like to increase the performance of Home Assistant.
Chris: I think I'm at the limits of what I'm going to get from the ARM platforms right now. I could be wrong.
Chris: But something that's like, I don't know if it's out there, an N150 that takes
Chris: 32 gigs of RAM and you could put up to 8 terabytes of storage in.
Chris: Is such a thing out there?
Chris: I'm not so sure. I was also looking at maybe some of the quote-unquote enterprise
Chris: hardware, like a ThinkCenter M720Q or an Optiplex 3070. Have you looked at these?
Wes: Yeah, only a little bit.
Chris: They're really impressive little boxes for the size and the price.
Chris: So even if, so I think for some people, they're probably exactly what you would need right now.
Chris: Like the ThinkCenter M7020Q is $205.
Chris: It has an i5-8400T, which means it's the lower power variant.
Chris: And it has eight gigs of RAM, but I'm pretty sure it goes up to 32.
Wes: Yeah, that's the key detail right there.
Chris: And the Optiplex.
Wes: They really are a great.
Chris: Lean, mean, again, an i5-9500T. 256 gigabyte SSD in there but you can pop it
Chris: up again I believe yeah it says right here up to 32 gigabytes of 266 megahertz DDR4,
Chris: Now, if this could take the storage, I don't know. So these little enterprise,
Chris: this one's, although, $550. So I don't know about that.
Brent: What about heat management? Because I know your current boxes are sort of solid state, right?
Brent: They don't have moving fans or anything like that, and you have them in a little cupboard.
Brent: So have you thought about this aspect?
Chris: Yeah, that's a good question. It does get hot in there. The Odroid H3 has survived, though.
Chris: The H4 might be enough for all of this.
Wes: Over in matrix uh swami comes in with a uh minis forum ms01 workstation uh what they're using.
Chris: Okay to me it feels like.
Wes: Up to 24 terabytes of ssd storage.
Chris: Like there's like this trifecta problem you know you can have speed you can
Chris: have power efficiency or you can have all the storage and gadgets and i'm trying
Chris: to like have all three and maybe i'm not over asking but just my initial look
Chris: here. Oh, this is really nice though.
Chris: So this is $480 US greenbacks.
Chris: And it has a 13th generation i9, 24 terabytes of SSD storage up to, PCI4.
Chris: My question would be is what is its idle draw?
Wes: Yeah, that was going to be my question.
Chris: See, an i9-2900H. I don't know what the power draw is on that.
Chris: It's really hard. I know this.
Chris: I've really enjoyed the yellow. It's really been a nice sweet spot here on the
Chris: power to performance ratio.
Wes: Do they have any other first-party hardware that interests you?
Chris: Not really. No, just the power isn't really there. They have a blue and I want
Chris: something more robust. It's fine.
Chris: But when you think about it, what I'm trying to get is I want the webpages to render faster.
Chris: I want the dashboard to render faster because when you're trying to do something
Chris: really quick, you want the best performance possible.
Chris: So now I'm trying to get to like, okay, how do I get this? And I think I'm at
Chris: the limits of what a CM4 can deliver me there.
Chris: But also, okay, so I have not figured out the hardware, but that's sort of the
Chris: direction I'm trending, if possible, is an N150 or a T-series chip that gets
Chris: me the performance I want.
Chris: I have no idea if there's anything in the Ryzen world that would do this.
Chris: I would love to hear about that, if anybody could boost in or send us an email with that.
Chris: or my other option is run multiple boxes get really crappy cheap N100s and run
Chris: a couple of those but yeah do you.
Wes: Have the budget for two?
Chris: If the price is right.
Wes: You know, just one home assistant and maybe a couple other related services that fit the domain.
Chris: If the price was right and the power draw worked out, I really can't afford to spend any more power.
Chris: That's the most expensive thing for me right now because the current system
Chris: is drawing a little bit more than I'd like.
Chris: I think the other thing I'm going to do is I'm going to phase out Zigbee.
Chris: I'm just going to start replacing those devices.
Chris: My next build is going to use that new fancy home assistant connect ZWA2 Z-Wave
Chris: that is really, really good. So that'll be my future plan.
Chris: I'm going to phase out Zigbee. I liked the idea behind it, but it just hasn't worked for me.
Chris: But I have a sense, Wes, that me kind of YOLOing and deleting adapters and then
Chris: replicating Home Assistant OS in a VM on a new box, I don't know.
Chris: I just have a feeling maybe not how you would do it.
Chris: So how would you fix it right, Dr. Wes?
Wes: Oh, I don't know if you could really call it fixing it right,
Wes: but have you ever considered your old pal NixOS?
Chris: Oh, why am I not surprised? Brent, are you surprised?
Brent: I saw this coming from a mile away.
Wes: You know, actually, I might have a better time on the sales pitch too,
Wes: Brent, because he started out new.
Chris: Yeah.
Wes: And I think probably the main difficulty for you is you just have a lot of functionality
Wes: that you don't want to give up and you would need to port.
Chris: A lot of add-ons.
Wes: Right.
Chris: Little silly things like UI tweaks and new cards and new ways to graph things
Chris: that come into the add-on store and whatnot.
Chris: Although maybe it's possible to add the add-on store through Nix. I have no idea.
Wes: No, I don't think so. They don't explicitly support it, at least with the module.
Wes: I mean, you could do it on your own, because I think the add-ons are mostly talker containers.
Chris: Yes, exactly.
Wes: So you could run those. Or, like, what I'm doing is a lot of them just have
Wes: NixOS modules for what you're running, right?
Wes: So, like, music assistant, instead of an add-on, it's just another service that I run at the NixOS.
Chris: And it's just in a different tab, yeah.
Wes: Yeah.
Wes: So there are some changes that you have to get used to. We started looking into
Wes: this a little bit because I am currently running it this way.
Wes: And I thought it'd be interesting to kind of look and see some of the things
Wes: like that, you know, does it have enough of the stuff that you might need?
Wes: It is kind of great because they do support, I mean, I think they say they have
Wes: something like, they support like 90 plus percent of like the built-in stuff. A lot of it's Python.
Wes: So anything that has, you know, if they have the dependency package for that,
Wes: it makes it very easy to get that added to your setup.
Wes: And so you can add any of the sort of extra components that you might want,
Wes: but also you can do custom components and they support the custom Lovelace modules as well.
Wes: And so you just sort of add all of the ones that you want into your config,
Wes: right? There's services.homeassistant.
Wes: So like I added, checking out stuff, you were using Mushroom,
Wes: ClockWeatherCard, MiniGraphCard, LG WebOS Remote Control.
Wes: I mean, I'm not going to use like, because I don't have a WebOS TV at the moment,
Wes: but just to see, you know.
Wes: and then you rebuild and that's it i mean you still got to go in and you know
Wes: customize it i think there's ways to do even more stuff declaratively but for
Wes: the most part i've just used it to get like all the dependencies and the core
Wes: stuff set up and running and then i can go from there.
Chris: Have you gone through an update cycle or so with home assistant.
Wes: Yeah it's been going for more than a couple of months yeah
Wes: i think at one point with esp home i disabled it for one update
Wes: cycle i wasn't doing anything with it at the moment anyway so
Wes: it was it was pretty easy and i could have pinned it if i if i'd
Wes: cared to but that hasn't been a problem since it is
Wes: um the way i have it set up i am building like home
Wes: assistant most of the updates so that does take you know 10
Wes: minutes or so depending on the power of the box you're using this is not an
Wes: especially powerful box but that has not had any issues at all so and i don't
Wes: really mind that because this is another box that i kind of run things i don't
Wes: need to update a ton and are more of the infrastructure layer it's also my router
Wes: more occasional updates yeah i love that you run it on your router you maniac.
Chris: Also, his router is an Xbox. Yes.
Wes: Yeah.
Wes: Which also doesn't need to do very much. And so I update it like,
Wes: you know, once or twice a month, basically, unless there's like a serious security thing or something.
Wes: So yeah, so in that domain, it's worked quite nicely.
Chris: So the thing, what you're saying that I do like is I like the idea of a implicitly
Chris: defined home assistant setup, because that feels a little more appliance-like,
Chris: especially at the level of dependency that I have.
Chris: Because what I have now is a bunch of Docker containers that are being orchestrated
Chris: by the home assistant supervisor container. And while it's been fine,
Chris: it's always been sort of like it seems like a potential area of issues.
Chris: But they actually do a great job in practice. But I like the idea of a defined
Chris: home assistant setup that's easy to replicate.
Chris: Then, you know, that would be really nice for, and I wish I would,
Chris: now thinking about this, I wish I would have done this years ago because I need
Chris: to redo home assistant at the studio probably next year.
Chris: I have home assistant that I'm going to redo for Hadiyah's office.
Chris: I'm going to do a second implementation there.
Chris: It'd be really nice to have all of that actually set and easy to replicate.
Wes: You know, really this came up because you were detailing to us privately some
Wes: of your struggles, right?
Wes: and I mean at first I was just laughing because you wanted robust stuff and
Wes: you mentioned Z-Wave JS but more realistically you mentioned that you had to
Wes: install an SSH add-on to troubleshoot that's so true because.
Chris: Everything's containers I.
Wes: Was just laughing in Nixos but no realistically there's a lot of trade-offs
Wes: and I don't know that this would really be right for you but I'd be curious
Wes: you could try it incrementally that's what I'd be curious to see I think for
Wes: me for minimal setups things where you can kind of adapt how you build it to
Wes: the limitations and the strengths,
Wes: that's a different domain than porting an existing maxed out,
Wes: supes tech van lifestyle.
Chris: Hundreds of devices. Yeah, totally.
Brent: Chris, do you worry about moving away from the officially supported OS way of
Brent: running Home Assistant and doing a build your own?
Brent: Do you worry about this I don't know, stability or supportedness of that?
Chris: No, I mean if you run it if you run Home Assistant OS in a VM,
Chris: that would be a supported configuration.
Chris: If you go out in the crazy way, the crazy, scary way that Wes is talking about,
Chris: that wouldn't necessarily be supported.
Chris: But that doesn't concern me either, I suppose.
Wes: Yeah, right. That's another part of the trade-off is I'm kind of giving up that
Wes: for the ability to do it the Nix way, the benefits that may or may not have for you.
Wes: And it's easier for me to hack on it a little bit that way just because now I'm a Nix guy.
Chris: All right.
Wes: But to your point, just really quick, is, right, you can also definitely,
Wes: you know, if you did want, if you already were trying to deploy it on NixOS
Wes: infrastructure, you could definitely run it in a VM or a container.
Chris: Yeah, right.
Wes: Just as you could on any base OS.
Chris: Before we get off this, How do you say your name in the moment?
Chris: Was it Dydriel? Dydriel? How do I say it?
Mumble: Dydriel.
Chris: So you have the yellow, but you've popped a CM5 in your yellow. How's that working?
Mumble: I've been running it for over a year. It's been solid. The only issue I have
Mumble: is some smart plugs I have.
Mumble: The integration is glitchy and known to have to restart it, but that's just
Mumble: the integration itself. Nothing to do with the yellow itself.
Chris: Do you want to out the vendor?
Mumble: Some Chinese knockoff.
Chris: Oh, okay. All right, so you're telling me, you're telling me I pop off the top,
Chris: I pop the top on the yellow, and I can just take the CM4 out,
Chris: and I can in a new CM5, and I'm going to get a better, faster...
Chris: Oh, but isn't the EMMC built into the...
Mumble: Yeah, you back up your Home Assistant first, and then swap it out,
Mumble: and then you reinstall Home Assistant, reload your config, and boom,
Mumble: you're back up and running.
Chris: Have you had any problems with your Zigbee radio?
Mumble: I'm just getting into it. My wife doesn't let me buy fun toys like that.
Chris: Go Z-Wave. That's my advice. Go Z-Wave.
Chris: Okay, well, okay. So that also could be a time buyer. And did you notice a performance
Chris: differential when you went CM5?
Chris: Because that's my other concern is I go through the effort, I pay the money,
Chris: I pop it in there, I reload the OS, and it's like a 10%, 20% improvement, which would be okay.
Mumble: I was actually running it out of a Docker container before on a quite powerful
Mumble: host that shouldn't have had any issues running it.
Mumble: And by going to a standalone box, I did notice a performance improvement just
Mumble: by going to standalone, letting it be dedicated.
Chris: And not.
Mumble: Running my r stack next to it granted that stack is idle most of the time but still.
Chris: Right when it does run it's stealing from home assistant yeah okay see i got
Chris: too many choices here guys i really i think this is an area where i could really
Chris: appreciate some experience and input they're like that's a great option if that
Chris: cm5 buys me some time i think maybe what the what i should do there is uh,
Chris: regardless of what I do, put a CM5 in that thing and deploy it somewhere else, you know?
Wes: It sounds fun to try.
Chris: Yeah, it's still got some good life in it, I think. Huh, all right.
Chris: Well, please do boost in or go
Chris: to linuxunplugged.com slash contact and let me know how you would do it.
Wes: You know, maybe we get a poll going and the audience decides your hardware.
Chris: Oh, God.
Wes: I don't just say it.
Chris: I want to nail it right. Ideally, it's something that lasts me another seven
Chris: years, five years, you know, something I can put in that is a nice long-term. and.
Wes: You didn't have something to recommend to other folks.
Chris: The one really nice thing about going the prescribed home assistant
Chris: os path vm or be it on physical hardware
Chris: is the backup and restore is really top notch
Chris: and if you have a nebikasa account they also store
Chris: a version of the backup encrypted in cloud
Chris: storage so you can now you can just restore from
Chris: the cloud like it's a freaking iphone or android or something and restore it
Chris: right onto the hardware and get right back to where you're at so the going from
Chris: failure i got to switch to a new box to fully recovered scenario is really strong
Chris: if you go the blessed route if you'll call it that which is one thing to consider,
Chris: I think if you went the Nix route, like Wes is suggesting, by its very nature,
Chris: it's so replicable that if you could just restore the data, you're probably going to be fine.
Wes: Yeah, you know, copy over varlib NixWes, or Home Assistant, I mean.
Chris: You know, I mean, is it crazy to run it on the router? Because I could also, I, yes.
Wes: That was just super convenient for me when I was rebuilding my home lab.
Wes: I'm not trying to recommend that per se.
Wes: The router just wasn't doing anything else, so it was dedicated hardware I could use.
Chris: Well, I could see some advantages. It is one less piece of hardware.
Wes: And by router, it's mostly some NF tables rules, really.
Chris: And something about, I just love the ludicrous idea of your critical home assistant
Chris: system being on a box connected to the public internet. Like,
Chris: it's just so dumb. I love it.
Wes: I also, you know, there's so many meshes these days. Like, I don't have to have
Wes: any ported ports and stuff.
Chris: That's exactly how you would do it.
Wes: Uh-huh.
Chris: Unraid.net slash unplugged. Unleash your hardware with Unraid,
Chris: a powerful, easy-to-use NAS operating system for those of you that want control,
Chris: flexibility, efficiency, and you want to just take advantage of some of the
Chris: apps we talk about with what you have in the closet right now.
Chris: Build your ultimate rig or take advantage of that laptop sitting in the corner.
Chris: You can really unleash the hardware that you have right now.
Chris: And Unraid is cooking, my friends.
Chris: The new RC is out for version 7.20. 5,000 different Unraid members help test the RC.
Chris: That's awesome. They have lots of nice fixes, polish across storage,
Chris: VMs, the web GUI, and the stable is just around the corner.
Chris: Unraid goes from win to win. And
Chris: recently, they have been laser-focused on making that web UI even better.
Chris: Their community app store is bonkers. You get access to support, to the community,
Chris: to all of those apps, and the continuous improvements of Unraid built on top
Chris: of a modern Linux kernel, which means you get the best in virtualization,
Chris: the best in containers, and the best in file systems.
Chris: So check out Unraid and support the show. You get a 30-day free trial,
Chris: which lets you test out Unraid, no credit card required, when you go to unraid.net slash unplugged.
Chris: It's pretty powerful, and it just keeps getting better.
Chris: And they just recently crossed the 20-year mark. And it feels like they've got
Chris: all the steam and energy from, like, a startup.
Chris: It's really pretty impressive. Check it out. Support the show.
Chris: Unraid.net slash unplugged.
Brent: Well, we'd like to do a shout-out to new member Giovanni, who joined as a core
Brent: contributor. Thank you, Giovanni.
Chris: Thank you. Hope you're enjoying. I will say, last week's bootleg had some extra
Chris: road trip clips and stuff like that.
Chris: Great bootleg if you are just signing up or you haven't grabbed them yet.
Chris: Go do it. And thank you for becoming a core contributor.
Chris: Appreciate that very much. And gentlemen, we do have some boosts.
Chris: And Derevishan Dingus is our baller booster this week with 72,222 sets.
Chris: Oh, that's a nice one. Thank you, derivation. So sorry I missed sending my config.
Chris: I've been behind on shows, but I had to boost in my vote for more of this content.
Chris: I really enjoyed this episode and would love to participate in a second round.
Chris: That said, guys, for the love of God, please give Home Manager a try.
Chris: I've replaced the vast majority of my individual .files with Nix modules because of Home Manager.
Chris: It's so nice to have everything in one spot and in one format. Highly recommend.
Wes: We knew this day would come.
Chris: We've been resisting this for almost as long as we resisted Nix.
Chris: almost but uh i i just you know my my hesitation is i just feel like i'm really
Chris: going all in at that point but i think i already have all right we got to try
Chris: it we got to try it i need to know is there like recommended well especially.
Wes: Because we can clean up your config.
Chris: My goodness i know every time i'm
Chris: working and i'm vibing on hypervibe well not
Chris: every time but very frequently it's like okay now I
Chris: can do this with an activation script but if we
Chris: used home manager let's tell it to tell me
Chris: that all the time I'm sure it is uh he goes on I've been using hyperland and
Chris: nix os for years at this point and in my opinion it is a match made in heaven
Chris: hyperland has really come a long way since the early days and it has first class
Chris: nix os support the whole time I've been using it it really is cool to see some
Chris: people appreciating all the work being done over there it really does deserve the attention.
Chris: I feel like it made my computer fun and exciting again.
Chris: I'll plus one then. It's just enough desktop. It really has been pretty great and the combination of,
Chris: just the way I can configure it simply and the instant reloads and the way it does tile.
Chris: It just tiles very intelligently plus you can do support for some floating windows
Chris: if you want. I really like it.
Chris: That's all I have to say about that. And I do think it is a match made in heaven
Chris: i agree and thank you for that boost appreciate it.
Wes: Show mascot the golden dragon boosts in with a row of ducks,
Wes: Boosting in 636, love the episode, great road talk, and interview with John.
Chris: Oh, thank you. We had a lot of fun. And it was really great of John to be able
Chris: to join us live like that. We were really down to the wire.
Wes: And we pushed through some technical difficulties.
Brent: Pabby boosted in a row of ducks. Plus one for the config confessions.
Brent: Have to get around to cleaning up my next config sometime.
Chris: All right. I think that's a plus two so far for this.
Wes: I don't know. Three or four at least.
Chris: I think we're getting in the green light category, boys. that's
Chris: exciting that's really cool i wasn't sure at first it was sort of a slow start
Chris: but now we're hearing it we're hearing it um if you disagree now's the time
Chris: you can let us know but uh things are cooking things are cooking all right kiwi
Chris: bitcoin guide comes in with 5 432 sats,
Chris: time traveler boost i'm going back over episodes about file systems who knew
Chris: that you could customize the file system in your os wow i know things we take for granted now no.
Wes: Kidding right If you're just coming from more traditional devices.
Chris: Yeah, especially Windows and macOS. Like, not a lot of options there.
Wes: No, that does mean you kind of, you know, sometimes have to choose and debate
Wes: why to choose and which, but that's part of the fun.
Chris: That's true. Could you explain the difference between corporate distros like
Chris: Ubuntu and Pop! OS and community distros? Pros, cons, trade-offs, that kind of thing.
Chris: Almost an episode topic there.
Wes: Oh, yeah. It's a big thread to pull.
Chris: Well, the corporate distros generally have paid staff to maintain and develop
Chris: them and work on certain pain points, but they also have an overall corporate
Chris: mission that they're trying to deliver via that desktop.
Chris: Now, if you agree with that and align with that, that's probably just fine.
Chris: Community distributions can be a little bit more chaotic in their structure
Chris: and their organization, but don't necessarily have any particular enterprise
Chris: end goal or KPI that they must meet,
Chris: or a certain thing of value that they must return to the organization making it.
Chris: So they can be useful in that way. And I think my experience has been over the
Chris: years, just have naturally gravitated towards the community maintained distributions
Chris: overall, not for any particular criticism against Ubuntu or PopOS.
Chris: I think they're both really fantastic.
Chris: And I think the people in charge of them really have their best interest in
Chris: mind. But it just seems to be where I've naturally gravitated to over the years.
Wes: Yeah, and you know, kind of depends on what you're doing if you if you do
Wes: align well with what you know the corporate distros in
Wes: particular are trying to do if you could be a potential customer even
Wes: or you want support eventually things like that then you know this
Wes: can be really nice yeah and right they do have an ability to sort of set the
Wes: bar or you know pay people to work on certain things in certain areas so if
Wes: those are areas that are important to you that might be something that you appreciate
Wes: but the downside can be that you you know if you diverge from that they don't
Wes: always necessarily bend over backwards to support.
Wes: I mean, it's still open source often, right? And so there is a lot of community
Wes: involvement around corporate distros as well.
Wes: But you just kind of get a different experience in, you know,
Wes: the support use cases and the diversity of what people are doing with some of the community ones.
Chris: Maybe the best place to see this in action is the delta between Debian and Ubuntu
Chris: and Fedora and CentOS Stream and RHEL, right, where you can really see the community side.
Chris: Even though you could argue that Red Hat still is somewhat involved in Fedora,
Chris: it's very much community-led.
Chris: And you see, like, the differences is they have ButterFS on Workstation now
Chris: for multiple releases. That's still not in RHEL.
Chris: And so they can experiment a bit more in some cases as well.
Chris: Great question. i feel like i could talk about that for an hour love it if you
Chris: have any other questions like that kiwi please do send them in.
Wes: Chris b boosted with 5 000 cents if you're reading this my very first crypto
Wes: transaction was successful sent using self-hosted bitcoin lnt and boost cli
Wes: keep up the great work what that's awesome very very impressive oh that is a lot as.
Brent: A first uh.
Chris: Wow, that is crazy as a first.
Wes: That's zero to like 300.
Chris: Crispy, very, very impressive. And even Boost CLI. It's been ages since we've had a Boost CLI boost.
Chris: You'll find as you get into Bitcoin, some really don't like the association
Chris: of crypto and Bitcoin. There's Bitcoin and then there's everything else.
Chris: But we're here, we're much more friendly folk. And we really,
Chris: I'm impressed. Well done. Well freaking done.
Chris: That's eagle for you, sir. Eagle for you.
Brent: Well Kaspilin boosted in three boosts for a total of 6,300 sats,
Brent: now this is on episode 329 flat
Brent: network truthers funny nowadays kernel 5.5 pi's on 32-bit mangero bivaldi 12
Brent: cores all amazing i miss those times those deep dives i was looking for info
Brent: about nebula so thanks for the work Thank you.
Chris: I think, right?
Wes: Yeah.
Chris: Thank you for the support. And he's saying we should do more deep dives. And I agree on that.
Wes: Just a wee bit.
Chris: A wee bit of a deep dive. You know, or an in-depth look could be that too. A wee bit of a deep dive.
Chris: Yeah.
Brent: If you have deep dive, I don't know, curiosities, you send them right along
Brent: and we'll see what we can do.
Chris: I love nerding out on kernel releases.
Wes: I do kind of like, you know, the callbacks. there have been various different
Wes: eras too right if you've just been following the desktop linux world and yeah
Wes: from kernel five five yeah yeah the different versions of the pi the browser
Wes: war there's just been a lot there's a lot.
Chris: And there still is wes there still is and some.
Wes: Some of us haven't processed that sometimes.
Chris: It's too much wes sometimes there's too much ed broughton's here with 12 345
Chris: sets that's one two three four five,
Chris: Oh, another request for a wee bit of a deep dive.
Chris: I'd like to see a deep dive on AlbiHub, a peek under the hood and some explanations
Chris: of what the user-friendly UI is actually hiding from a node operator.
Chris: Maybe include some discussion on ongoing channels and the why behind the limited
Chris: number of LSPs offered through AlbiHub UI.
Chris: How does AlbiHub impact decentralization of the network? And discussions of
Chris: cloud versus self-hosted AlbiHub instances.
Brent: Great.
Chris: Ed, that's a pretty solid suggestion.
Wes: True, yeah.
Chris: You and I should do a Twib special or something on that.
Wes: That sounds fun.
Chris: Because I think that's probably where that would, This Week in Bitcoin is probably the place for that.
Chris: And that is a great series of questions. And there's a lot of great answers there.
Chris: Very, very, very excited about the LB Hub project.
Chris: But there is good questions. Like, why is there only so many LSPs in there?
Chris: Why don't they have more?
Chris: Those are great questions, Ed. And Wes and I will have a conversation about
Chris: maybe doing a special on This Week in Bitcoin for that.
Chris: Thank you for the boost. Thank you, everybody, who boosted in.
Chris: We had a good amount of you stream them sats as you listen to the show.
Chris: That's always just super cool. We'd love to see that.
Chris: Collectively, you stacked 40,807 sats. Hey, not bad.
Chris: Thank you very much, sat streamers. When you combine that with our boosters,
Chris: it's a humble amount. But after last week, that's kind of to be expected.
Chris: We stacked a collective 147,250 sats.
Chris: Thank you everyone who supports the show with a boost. When you boost this show,
Chris: it's split amongst the hosts and our editor Drew, as well as the podcast app
Chris: creator and the podcast index.
Chris: It's all right there in the RSS feed for anyone to see.
Chris: The contract itself is open source. That's really powerful.
Chris: Plus, it gives the app creator a way to monetize that doesn't require creepy
Chris: ads and tracking and stuff like that.
Chris: It's really a powerful system. So you can start with Fountain FM.
Chris: They make it really easy. You hear us talk about AlbiHub. That's a self-hosted
Chris: system that you can load up yourself and then connect to lots of different applications.
Chris: It's all really fun, too. It's a very educational experience.
Chris: And when you get on the boost, it really feels like you're at the next level
Chris: of interaction. You know, we're responding to you.
Chris: You're responding to us. It's really great.
Chris: And, of course, thank you to our members who said it and forget it.
Chris: We better watch. Appreciate the members as well. All right, we got two picks
Chris: for you before we get out of here.
Chris: And the first one is a launcher that lets you launch your apps by casting spells.
Wes: Yeah, I know how you like launchers. You're a big launcher guy.
Chris: Big launch guy.
Wes: Have you ever thought about using gestures to launch things?
Chris: You know, I've played with this for a hot moment in like Firefox, I think, and stuff.
Chris: like every now and then and it is really useful it sounds cheesy but if you
Chris: already have your hand on the mouse why not just do a squiggly to launch something
Chris: like your terminal really quick i don't think it takes away from having a keyboard-based
Chris: launching system like keybinds or a launcher.
Wes: No have them both.
Chris: Have them both.
Wes: No okay so then you might like hexacute uh
Wes: it's a go app it's a gesture based launcher for
Wes: wayland and um yeah you run on the commit you can run the command line uh ask
Wes: it to learn then you draw your gesture three times and then after that um you're
Wes: good to go so they kind of recommend you bind it to a key binding maybe or something
Wes: to when you want to trigger it then you can draw whatever gesture you want.
Chris: You're missing the best part,
Chris: It has a magic wand sort of almost comp is style.
Wes: Oh, yeah, right. So it turns your cursor into like a sparkly trailing magic wand.
Chris: Yeah. So that's there. But I don't know. It also does like a lighting effect.
Chris: It's pretty solid, actually.
Wes: Yeah, the UI makes it seem quite charming. And so I kind of want to start using it just for that.
Chris: Yeah. All right. We'll put a link to.
Wes: This might actually especially work well if you were using on something like
Wes: a touchscreen. I don't know.
Chris: Oh, of course. hexacute gpl3 okay
Chris: then let's talk about lenspect this got some
Chris: attention this week because no one's really made a
Chris: malware vulnerability scanner for linux in a while and lenspect is a modern
Chris: gtk based application that does just that if this is something you're concerned
Chris: about it is a lightweight security threat scanner powered by virus total virus
Chris: total is a free service for individuals. They have a paid program for businesses.
Chris: They kind of aggregate a bunch of different virus database information and then
Chris: give applications one place to sort of look at aggregate information.
Chris: This ties in. You go over there, create an account, get an API key.
Chris: This ties in with that. And now you can scan individual files and folders on
Chris: your system for all known malware.
Chris: And because it's using the virus total backend, it's all currently up to date,
Chris: which is nice, right? You don't even have to go like update your database.
Chris: So Lenspect. And it's interesting to see this project right this is something
Chris: that's been in the works for a little bit not a topic we cover a lot on the show,
Chris: But the group decided to release this as GPO-3 and use the most modern GTK elements and designs they could.
Wes: Yeah, you kind of like to see that. I mean, whether or not you are a particular
Wes: in need or a user of this kind of thing, want to get the API key and all that.
Wes: Some people do, and they want to do it on Linux. So if this enables that kind
Wes: of workflow to happen, great.
Chris: And they're distributing it as a flat pack, so it's pretty easy to get going.
Chris: That scanning file logo kind of looks like the Bitwarden logo,
Chris: but it's okay. Maybe it's not.
Chris: And it looks like a really nice clean app and it gives you great information
Chris: and then you can export that scan summary.
Chris: Could be a way to, you know, maybe say you're doing compliance.
Chris: I don't know. Or if you download something weird.
Wes: This actually- Maybe we use it every time like after Brent's at the studio and
Wes: then he's left the studio.
Chris: That's big brain. That's big brain.
Brent: Gotta get rid of the bug field, right?
Chris: You know where this would be useful is if your kids are downloading like Minecraft
Chris: mods or whatever crap it is, you could check this first, make sure there's nothing
Chris: weird in there and it is GPL 3 at least for the front end stuff so it's not too risky to get into it.
Wes: Yeah set up a gesture to launch it.
Chris: Set up a gesture, sure. Then you'd use Hexacute to start Lenspect.
Wes: Uh-huh.
Chris: Mm-hmm.
Wes: You're welcome.
Chris: Now, can you give them a pro tip on, you know, maybe some advanced features
Chris: that we have here in this here podcast that they might not know about?
Wes: Oh, yes, we do. Well, first up is the magic of cloud chapters. Yeah. Dynamic.
Wes: You just pull them down from the cloud, and suddenly you can jump around in
Wes: the episode. Jump right to the content you want, skip the stuff you don't.
Chris: We do have baked-in chapters if you don't have a podcasting 2.0 client.
Wes: Yeah, that's right.
Chris: But the nice thing about the cloud chapters is we can make corrections after the fact and stuff.
Chris: And then your client automatically gets the update. There's that. So that's the chapters.
Wes: But if you want more detail.
Chris: I might, Wes.
Wes: You might. We have transcripts.
Chris: Oh, really?
Wes: And a lot of clients these days, you can even play it in sync,
Wes: follow along, look at transcript as you're listening to OSIAC in your ears.
Chris: That's right. And for the clients that support it, we even have diarization
Chris: because we are just that fancy. And some of those, like the new podcasting apps,
Chris: they also support live streams.
Chris: So you can join us every Sunday at our regular bat time.
Chris: Yeah, join us on a Tuesday that's actually a Sunday. Sunday at 10 a.m.
Chris: Pacific, 1 p.m. Eastern over at jblive.tv.
Chris: Or if you've got an IceCast streamer, plug it into jblive.fm.
Chris: And we're generally sending out video streams to things like YouTube and whatnot
Chris: for the live stream as well.
Chris: Links to everything we talked about today are at linuxunplugged.com.
Chris: unpludged.com, sorry, slash 637. And of course, you can send us a contact or
Chris: a boost to support the show, and our membership link is over there as well.
Chris: Thank you so much for joining us on this week's episode of Your Unplugged Program.
Chris: We'll see you back here next Tuesday, as in Sunday!