Chris: Hello, friends, and welcome back to your weekly Linux talk show. My name is Chris.
Wes: My name is Wes.
Brent: And my name is Brent.
Chris: Hello, gentlemen, and welcome to episode 600.
Chris: Coming up on the show, we are indeed celebrating the big milestone.
Chris: We have a little state of the show. We have a little show announcement to make.
Chris: And we have multiple meetups going on all around the world.
Chris: We'll check in with them. And then we'll top it off like a fine dessert with
Chris: the launch of the free BSD challenge.
Chris: Somehow, in 600 episodes of this podcast, we have never managed to do a free
Chris: BSD challenge. So that's coming up and much more.
Chris: So before we get into all of that, let's give a shout out to all the individuals
Chris: that have joined us in the virtual lug today.
Chris: Time appropriate. Greetings, mumble room. Hello. Hello.
Mumble: Hello. Hello.
Wes: I think we're outnumbered today, boys.
Brent: Oh, my goodness.
Chris: This was just peeking out. It's so crazy. Wow. That's great.
Chris: Hello, everybody. Thank you so much. We'll be coming back and chatting with you in a moment.
Chris: I want to say a big good morning to our friends over at Tailscale.
Chris: Head over to Tailscale.com slash unplugged and get Tailscale for free on 100
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Chris: get by on the free plan, but it just works so wonderfully that I've decided
Chris: to expand my use into JB's infrastructure as well.
Chris: It's fast. It's intuitive. It's programmable. It connects in with your existing
Chris: authentication infrastructure if you have one for a business.
Chris: It supports things like ACLs. There's lots of tooling around it,
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Chris: SSH keys to every box. You can use your Tailscale credentials.
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Chris: They love it. We love it. You're going to love it. Try it for free for up to
Chris: 100 devices and three users while you're supporting the show.
Chris: Head on over to talescale.com slash unplugged.
Chris: And a big thank you to Talescale for sponsoring the Unplugged program.
Chris: So we would normally at this point do housekeeping.
Chris: But I thought we'd start, since it is 600, we don't usually talk about the show
Chris: on the show. We'd just do a little state of the show.
Chris: These are my rough thoughts. I was just kind of looking back.
Chris: The show launched about 11 years and five months ago.
Brent: Oh, my goodness.
Wes: That was several worlds ago.
Chris: It's been a long time. And I was looking like Frozen recently in the theaters.
Chris: The first Frozen had come out.
Brent: I have a confession. I've never seen it.
Chris: Wow.
Brent: I know. I don't have kids.
Chris: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I've seen it enough for both of us.
Brent: Okay, all right. We'll do it tonight.
Chris: Russia had just granted temporary asylum to Edward Snowden.
Wes: Oh, right.
Brent: Wow.
Chris: When the show came out. I checked the price of Bitcoin when the show came out.
Chris: It was $105 for one Bitcoin.
Wes: How much has changed?
Brent: When I read our doc this morning, this little part, I was like,
Brent: oh, well, it was the same price. Oh, no way.
Chris: No, it's $100,000 Delta, yeah. Fedora 19 just shipped with Gnome 38, or 3.8, sorry.
Chris: i just recently had a baby girl my baby
Chris: bella uh this different time it's a long long time ago and it wasn't our first
Chris: podcast right we've been podcasting before linux unplugged but i was just looking
Chris: back at that and thinking wow we are we i think are at a fork in the road that
Chris: is like no other the podcast quote-unquote industry or community i don't know
Chris: what the right word is to describe it.
Wes: Yeah, that was still really early days before the podcast boom.
Chris: Before, and now we're post-boom, really. And what we see is this big shift.
Chris: And I was telling Brent before we got on the air, like, the last couple of weeks,
Chris: I have had all these conversations with either advertisers or people that are
Chris: in the process of building podcast hosting platforms.
Chris: And the conversations have generally, they just assume that we're doing this
Chris: podcast on YouTube with video and,
Chris: You know, like I did like a decade ago with the big microphones and the headphones.
Brent: Aren't we?
Chris: No. And then I have to tell them, no, no, we're just doing audio only. Oh.
Wes: Podcast classic.
Chris: That's lost us ad deals because of that.
Brent: That's crazy, eh?
Chris: Because for them, it's like, it's not a podcast unless it's on YouTube.
Brent: Whoa.
Chris: And what I think is so ironic about that is, like, you listen to Office Hours
Chris: and whatnot. We have been so focused on Spotify and Apple influencing and centralizing podcasting.
Chris: That we just totally slept on YouTube.
Chris: Meanwhile, they've been doing like a low-key move to just suck up as many podcasts as possible.
Chris: And this, now in retrospect, is why they killed the Google Podcast app.
Chris: To get people to move to YouTube.
Wes: Because before, I mean, a lot of podcasts were on YouTube. But it was sort of
Wes: like a, well, people are on here.
Wes: You know, this gets me a couple thousand extra views for folks that like don't
Wes: listen to podcasts otherwise.
Chris: Right.
Wes: And it's been a big shift.
Chris: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I myself catch a pretty good handful of podcasts on YouTube now.
Brent: I would imagine Joe Rogan had a lot to do with that.
Chris: Oh my God, producer Jeff, just to prove a point, when I started publishing on YouTube, it was 4x3.
Chris: And then within a short period of time, they went to 16x9, but on my gear, it was 4x3.
Brent: Oh, that sucks.
Chris: Yeah, we tried this. We've done this path.
Chris: And then what we decided to do was focus on audio because we could do multi-track.
Chris: So each one of us and the mumble room are on our own tracks.
Chris: And if there's something weird with our audio, it can be independently cleaned up.
Chris: But when you do video, you're editing a video show and that's stereo generally,
Chris: not always, but generally.
Chris: And it's a different kind of
Chris: edit than an audio podcast. And we wanted to really focus on great audio.
Chris: The world, it's scary to me because the world is leaving shows like ours behind
Chris: to a degree, at least for a while.
Chris: I think these things tend to be cyclical, but I don't think this cycle's over.
Chris: And I think over the next 100 episodes, I think specifically Linux podcasts
Chris: and others that are hyper-local, hyper-niche podcasts,
Chris: I think we're going to face kind of like the Linux magazine effect,
Chris: where you're going to see a fade of some of these independent creators.
Chris: because monetization is moving to youtube and video ads youtube offers a built-in
Chris: monetization path hosting costs even for audio podcasts but especially for video
Chris: keep rising youtube distributes for free most podcasters that are launching
Chris: a podcast right now feel like they have to do video it's.
Wes: Also where i mean right like if you think about wanting to become someone who
Wes: makes content what is the model for.
Chris: Youtube and if you go on youtube there's a path to monetization If you go on
Chris: the, if you go a podcast, an audio only podcast, it's a bespoke custom path
Chris: to monetization if you want to make it sustainable.
Wes: Or you're doing, you know, TikTok or Reels or Shorts or something that's even
Wes: further from podcasting.
Chris: Right, right. And all of these centralize, you know, and YouTube, this is kind of funny.
Chris: YouTube, as of last week, if you said COVID came from a lab,
Chris: you would get your video demonetized.
Chris: this week you are now allowed to say you can now say covid came from a lab and
Chris: your video will not get demonetized regardless of your opinion on it it's an
Chris: example of how the platform can impact speech but beyond just like that direct
Chris: example that actually just happened in the last few days,
Chris: there's also just the incentives of a platform like tiktok like youtube they
Chris: incentivize a certain type of content that i don't think creates good dialogue
Chris: around free software and we've talked about this before, but I mentioned it
Chris: because I think over the next 100 episodes,
Chris: you're going to see a near total capture of the top 100, 300 podcasts to be on YouTube.
Chris: And something that was once decentralized and independent by its default,
Chris: distributed over RSS is going to be published on YouTube.
Chris: And I, and I just ask you the reason why I'm at picture your own industry that
Chris: you work in right now, going through a seismic shift like this,
Chris: that you think is making things worse and not better, but the momentum just seems unstoppable.
Chris: You can't stop this trend, even though you think it's, it's incentivifying your, your line of work.
Chris: It feels like a takeover almost. It's scary. And I don't think it's the end
Chris: of podcasts or anything like that.
Chris: I think there's totally going to be a path forward for audio podcasts.
Chris: Video didn't kill the radio star.
Chris: But I do think it's going to require tougher choices, and I do think it's going
Chris: to require listeners to be aware of the situation and make active choices to
Chris: support independent content and decentralized content so we don't all end up swallowed up as a whole.
Chris: But I also think we have to keep looking to the audience more so for guidance than ever.
Chris: Maybe there is a point where we do pivot to video if that's what the audience wants.
Chris: because ultimately we are trying to create something that you
Chris: enjoy right like we don't want to just sit
Chris: here talking into the wind but we also want
Chris: to create something we can be proud of that as a whole improves the
Chris: dialogue for the linux community you know this is a very powerful medium podcasting
Chris: it's funny that's happening now too because podcasting has never really been
Chris: more prevalent in the political dialogue and news dialogue and the cultural
Chris: dialogue in the presidential elections like podcasts really had a role yeah.
Brent: But video podcasts.
Chris: They were on youtube yeah people go on.
Wes: Podcasts and then people talk about it on social media that's kind of what happens right.
Chris: I hope i hope you know that the last 600 episodes essentially are viewed as
Chris: a down payment on our commitment to keeping this independent to keeping this as decentralized,
Chris: as possible we're going to look to you though for guidance if you want us to
Chris: change what we're doing or if you want us to stay on the path because we're
Chris: working with you together to create this content and we want to try to improve
Chris: the dialogue in the Linux community and get better and better at that.
Chris: So we're 600 episodes in and I just want to thank everyone for listening.
Chris: It's been an incredible journey for us, and I just want to keep going and really
Chris: grateful for the support and the audience and the community that's built up around this.
Chris: And so we're going to get to the meetup, speaking at Community in a moment,
Chris: but you wanted to say something.
Brent: I did want to say something. Like, this is us reflecting on the show,
Brent: and I just wanted to say, Chris, thank you for doing the show for this long.
Brent: Like, you dragged Wes and I into this whole crazy bandwagon you got going on
Brent: here. And I think like that's, I can easily say that's changed my life in one
Brent: of the most positive ways I've experienced. So yeah.
Chris: Cheers to you boys. Wouldn't be able to do without you. Come on,
Chris: get it up there. Come on, get up there. It's nice to have you in the studio.
Chris: There we go. Come on there.
Chris: Wouldn't it be great if we could do it in the studio every, every Sunday?
Wes: We'll get there.
Brent: Also want to say thanks to Drew. Like he's such a big portion of why this podcast sounds so amazing.
Chris: I know we wanted to have Drew here. I was going to say, we wanted to have Drew here today too.
Brent: And like, Drew's always here, but he's also not, never here because he's,
Brent: you know, doing the editing as soon as the show happens and he puts it out as
Brent: fast as he can. And that's just, yeah.
Chris: Huge massive. He's like an omnipresence meta spirit.
Wes: And we get to start slacking off and he goes to work.
Chris: So with that out of the way, and thank you everyone.
Chris: Let's talk about a new feature that's coming to the show. We'd like to try to
Chris: have something for you for episode 600.
Chris: And with episode 600, we are officially, we've been experimenting for a couple of weeks.
Chris: We're officially rolling out transcripts with every episode of the Unplugged program.
Chris: It's the first show in the JB lineup that has this workflow that we're building
Chris: out around it. So it's kind of a build and learn.
Chris: And our current implementation does have speaker diarization.
Chris: So you'll know if it's me or Wes or Brent or the mumble room, for example, or a clip.
Wes: That does depend on your particular client having support for it.
Chris: Yes, not all clients support that. Again, if you have a podcasting 2.0 app,
Chris: you're going to have a better chance of taking advantage of this stuff.
Chris: But there are some 1.0 apps that will also read these transcripts.
Chris: It's not perfect, right, because it's a whisper transcript or whatever.
Chris: However, we are doing stem isolation.
Chris: So each, again, the advantage of doing an audio podcast is we can individually
Chris: process each track separately. So there's no crosstalk.
Chris: It's when, when it's, when it's transcribing Brent's track, it's only Brent speaking.
Chris: And so it should be a, and we're also doing it with flack audio right off of
Chris: the editor, right off of Drew's editor.
Chris: so it should be the best case scenario for the cleanest best transcript but
Chris: the reality is we have terms we use on the show that we can't even get right.
Brent: And that we make up.
Chris: Yeah so it's there are going to be certain words you know
Chris: we don't need people telling us about every we are reviewing them we don't need
Chris: everybody but if there's some weird obvious issue we'd like to know because
Chris: we are still early in this but things like if it calls nick's n-c-i-n-i-c-k-s
Chris: or whatever like yeah there's nothing we can do about that sorry it doesn't know nix hey.
Wes: Nick makes a great os.
Chris: Yeah yeah nick os um so we'll hopefully get it sorted out as we build it out
Chris: and then we'll build this into other shows and uh we'd love to hear your feedback
Chris: on it and then ultimately we'd love to have people help us integrate it into
Chris: like the note search or something like that so it's also makes the show uh more
Chris: accessible for finding things after the fact.
Brent: I got some questions.
Chris: Yeah.
Brent: So, well, first of all, this is amazing. We've been talking about this for so
Brent: long. I'm super happy to see this coming out. I think it's going to be awesome.
Chris: Yeah, the diarization was the bit that took, we wanted to have,
Chris: and then of course we put all this work into it and then it turns out only a
Chris: handful of the clients support speaker detection, but...
Brent: Um, are we feeling as ambitious to do the back catalog?
Chris: Hmm. I suppose if we built this in a way where we could apply it to other shows,
Chris: eventually we could probably do that too.
Chris: Uh, right now we're paying for the hours that run for the speech recognition.
Chris: So we don't, that'd be, that'd be hundreds of hours.
Brent: Yeah, I know. How many episodes?
Chris: But yeah, I think eventually we should.
Brent: It would be nice to know if people would like that because maybe no one's ever
Brent: going to listen to them. It's not worth our time, but if you care,
Brent: then please put your vote in.
Chris: I mean, in the world of large language models, it's probably always a good idea to have it.
Wes: Yeah, and there's a lot of future room here. We're going to add them to eventually
Wes: have them more integrated in all the things, or whoever wants to build stuff with it.
Chris: I mean, best case scenario, we would build this out to a point where we publish
Chris: a transcript, and then people could make an improvement.
Brent: Oh, that'd be sweet.
Chris: And then they could submit it into us, and we could essentially apply that improvement.
Chris: You know, maybe like some workflow that could make it possible for the community
Chris: to improve them if they want to or not.
Chris: But we could accept those essentially patches, apply it to the main transcript
Chris: and republish it because they're just sitting, you know, as a JSON or VTT file on an endpoint.
Chris: So you could replace them with the improved language pretty easily.
Chris: That's the same idea. And then they would just load again in the next client.
Chris: So that is something we've been working on and we have been testing it.
Chris: So if you've been eagle-eyed out there, you may have noticed it pop up in a few episodes.
Chris: And if you don't see it show up, probably a feed issue.
Chris: The members that get the bootleg, they already get a transcript version.
Chris: They've had that for a while. I don't know if we're going to...
Chris: We've got to figure out how to do it for the members versions in particular,
Chris: too. There's a different workflow there, too. So there's still some things we've got to sort out.
Wes: Yeah, there's a reason we did love first.
Chris: Yeah.
Brent: Yeah.
Chris: Okay, with that announcement, Brent Lee, we've got a lot of people in that mumble
Chris: room, and you've got a list over there.
Brent: Goodness.
Chris: And do you want to maybe start with the different meetups that are happening
Chris: right now as we record episode 600?
Brent: Yeah, this is amazing. I would say incredible and a first time in Linux Unplugged history.
Brent: We have meetups happening concurrently all over the world, which is so fun.
Brent: So thank you, everyone who's doing that. We do have some who have also been
Brent: able to join us here in the Mumble Room.
Brent: So I'm going to try my best to guide us through that. And if I missed anyone,
Brent: well, I'll bring you in later.
Brent: So first of all, Andy, we've got you there over in Croatia. You want to say hi?
Mumble: Hello, I'm Andy from Croatia, and I'm enjoying the Linux Unplugged show.
Brent: Thanks for joining us. It's awesome.
Chris: Hello, Croatia. Hello, Andy. Nice to have you.
Brent: Now, our dear friend, Byte, I know you have a crew of people.
Brent: You're hanging out at Fosdom, which is happening at the exact same time as Linux Unplugged 600. Say hi.
Mumble: Yes, hello, hello. And guys? Hello!
Brent: Oh man this is uh some of the same people who are part of the crew who are shaking
Brent: the bus last time i was in berlin so thank you for that memorable experience,
Brent: we also have a meetup in london you guys want to say hi.
Mumble: Hello, this is Jeevan here.
Chris: Hello, Jeevan.
Brent: Sounds like there's more fun happening over there.
Mumble: We thought we would have more people, but there's only three of us,
Mumble: unfortunately, but we're still having a blast.
Chris: So it's all good. That's amazing. Just claim more people showed up and drink
Chris: for all of them. Thank you guys for making it.
Mumble: We've been talking Nix and Docker and Enterprise nonsense.
Brent: That's amazing. Kia with Joe, you're in Michigan.
Mumble: That's correct. Lansing, Michigan, the capital city where people drive from Detroit and Flint area.
Chris: Nice.
Brent: Wow.
Chris: Hello. Hello. Thank you for being there.
Mumble: Hey, we'll go next. This is Orlando checking in.
Brent: Next, we got Matty. You're in Slovenia.
Mumble: Yeah. Hi, guys. It's actually a group of us of two, Matt and Luke from Slovenia,
Mumble: the chicken-shaped country in middle Europe.
Chris: Oh, sounds delicious. Hello, gentlemen. Thank you for joining us.
Brent: There's also a Midwest meetup happening in Minneapolis, if I can get my M places proper.
Mumble: Well, hello. We're coming at you from an igloo on Lake Minnetonka.
Mumble: There's three of us out here, and we got some people from Iowa, too. Oh, yeah.
Chris: Hello.
Brent: Oh, gosh.
Brent: There's also a crew in Oakland. Hi, Oakland.
Mumble: Hey. Shout out from Oakland.
Chris: Hello, Oakland crew!
Brent: How many people do we have in Oakland?
Mumble: We're four here. We're in a hacker space. It's a non-profit.
Mumble: They let us use the space. We're surrounded by all kinds of gear from the 70s forward.
Wes: That sounds perfect.
Chris: That's great.
Brent: Nice. Of course, Chris, you'll have some sweet memories from this place.
Brent: My favorite Toronto team.
Chris: Hello, Toronto.
Chris: team toronto's muted at the moment maybe they had some mic problems they're
Chris: muted but they're there i can verify uh here hello team toronto thank you for
Chris: being here uh and then uh while team toronto fixes their mic uh tech dev was
Chris: in route tech dev where are you at.
Mumble: Uh we're in massachusetts we got four of us here.
Brent: Very nice and uh was there a little bit of a story about this meetup in particular?
Mumble: Oh man, okay, so this was so much fun. I am notoriously late,
Mumble: but I'm based out of Maine these days. I had a friend meet me at the border who's,
Mumble: An officer who doesn't want to be named, but that friend then gave me an escort
Mumble: from the border between New Hampshire and Maine, all the way to Worcester, Massachusetts.
Mumble: I got here just a couple of minutes before you guys press the record button and start up the intro.
Chris: How do I get this escort? I want it. Now, I have reason to believe this officer
Chris: might be a listener as well.
Mumble: That one I don't know. I know that this person knows of the show.
Mumble: I've set up a home assistant server for them in their house and a workshop that
Mumble: they have. I don't know if they listen to the show, but they do listen to me
Mumble: when I complain about being super late for things and then give it.
Chris: Well, congratulations. I think you win the cake for the only meetup that has a police escort.
Chris: Did we miss anyone in the mumble room there? Did we get all of the,
Chris: we have a whole bunch of folks in there.
Brent: Well, we do have our dear Minimac.
Chris: Of course. Minimac has been working his tail off. Minimac, you're at a meetup
Chris: of one right now still, yeah?
Mumble: Yeah, yeah. It's me, myself, and I, in fact.
Brent: But you do have a beer open, yeah?
Mumble: Yeah, I do. I do indeed. I do indeed. And I have the whole community around me. I'm happy.
Brent: Well, can we just everyone say thank you to Minimac? He's been looking after
Brent: the Mumble server for, what, years and years? I don't even...
Chris: Round of applause for Minimac. He's been working his tail off this morning, particularly.
Mumble: Team Toronto, round two.
Chris: Hey, there we go. Team Toronto's back. Team Toronto, how's it going over there?
Brent: A little rowdy.
Mumble: Da-da-da-da-da. I was thinking about,
Mumble: I know that I listened to the first Linux and Plux show and I know I was in
Mumble: the Mumble room but I was not moderator at that time and I started maybe a year later,
Mumble: when Rotten Corpse,
Mumble: told me that I would be a good addiction because in fact with Europe and time
Mumble: zone and everything would be cool,
Mumble: And so I started to be a moderator. But it reminds me, you remember,
Mumble: when I once killed the on-air room, I deleted the on-air room.
Mumble: That was right at the beginning. That was like, yeah, my first baptism,
Mumble: like, then I deleted that on-air room. Man.
Mumble: But no problems since then. Even though we had to reboot today.
Chris: Now, Brent, we have other meetups actually going on, too. They're just not in the mumble room.
Brent: Yeah, well, I'm wondering, did I miss any meetups in the Mumble Room,
Brent: or does anyone else in the Mumble Room want to say hi before I move on to the others?
Mumble: Can I say I'm sorry for Minimek that I caused trouble today?
Chris: There may have been a server crash issue. It's fine, it's fine.
Mumble: Hey, this is El Rey. I was going to say thanks for being an awesome show, guys.
Chris: Well, thank you for everything you do. And thank you for making it,
Chris: man. It's nice to have you here this morning.
Wes: Very nice.
Chris: This morning, this afternoon, whatever it is.
Brent: Yeah, Array was a key contributor on the website itself.
Brent: Taught me a heck of a lot of things in trying to help the community build something
Brent: awesome, which is totally happening. So thank you to the website crew as well.
Brent: Now, we do have other meetups, believe it or not. So there were 14 meetups in
Brent: total, at least listed on our events page that we threw up.
Brent: And some of the other meetups happening right now, they're little listening
Brent: parties. There's one in New York City.
Brent: I guess there's, I mentioned the one in London. We have one in Minnesota.
Brent: There's another happening in Walla Walla, one of my favorite Washingtonian places,
Brent: and another in Atlanta, Georgia.
Brent: But there is one that I missed. We are throwing our very own meetup.
Chris: Oh, that's right.
Brent: In a few hours. Did you forget about that one?
Chris: I guess I did. Yeah, we have a party to get to after this.
Brent: Yeah. And so I'm sure we will have a crew of people to hang out with.
Chris: Well, thank you, everybody, for making it. Now, this is episode 600,
Chris: also going to be special, because this will be the episode that we kick off
Chris: the FreeBSD Challenge, which I cannot believe in retrospect.
Chris: I wasn't really open to the idea.
Chris: but uh you know now having reviewed it i can't believe we haven't done.
Wes: It only took me 500 episodes to convince you.
Chris: Uh before we get into that we kind of have a special snail mail.
Brent: We do have snail mail i did have a thought before snail mail
Brent: if any of these meetups you guys want us to build a matrix room
Brent: for the meetup i know that often gets
Brent: uh the crew to do meetups without us keep doing
Brent: them please reach out to me personally and help make
Brent: that happen but yeah snail mail of all things if you send
Brent: us snail mail we will definitely get a giant grin
Brent: on our face and this one in particular uh is i don't know i don't even have
Brent: words for how great this is so this one is has a giant how would you describe
Brent: this it's a giant rocket it's a photograph of a rocket that looks like it's in a futuristic kind of i.
Chris: Thought it was uh like one of those like maker spaces you go to over there in.
Brent: Berlin so i haven't it's a postcard we should say it's a
Brent: postcard it is a postcard yes uh so let
Brent: me read what it says here dear jb team
Brent: sending my greetings from the chaos communication congress
Brent: in hamburg germany the picture is a few years old but it conveys the vibe perfectly
Brent: cheers from gilgoff and it even has a rocket postage stamp yeah that's pretty
Brent: great really really super sweet i think this might end up on the studio fridge it's.
Chris: Going on the fridge thank you for the postcard and thank you everybody now let's
Chris: get into the rest of the show,
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Chris: 1Password Extended Access Management solves the problems the traditional IAMs
Chris: and MDMs just can't touch.
Chris: It's security for the way people actually work today. And the great news is
Chris: it's generally available to companies with Okta, Microsoft Entra,
Chris: and it's in beta for Google Workspace customers.
Chris: Now, we all know 1Password makes great password management software,
Chris: and a good password manager is the night and day difference between basic security hygiene.
Chris: Well, 1Password's award-winning password manager is now combined with extended
Chris: access management, and they regularly undergo third-party audits.
Chris: They have the industry's largest bug bounty. They just exceeded all these standards.
Chris: So go secure every device, every app, and every identity, even the unmanaged ones.
Chris: Go to 1Password.com slash unplugged. That's all lowercase, the number 1Password.com slash unplugged.
Chris: 1Password.com slash unplugged.
Brent: Well, because it's episode 600, we decided to just do things in a different order.
Brent: Why not? shake it up and we wanted to do this specifically to get your advice
Brent: which we solicited for how in the world are we going to do this free bsd challenge
Brent: and so we're going to look at the boost first.
Chris: Yes, indeed, because lots of these are about the FreeBSD Challenge.
Chris: And our baller booster this week for episode 600, the only episode 600 there
Chris: ever will be, is The Dude Abides with 700,000.
Chris: Wait, 770,000.
Chris: Oh, my God.
Chris: With 770,000 sets.
Chris: That right there is a showmaker. Thank you, the dude.
Chris: Appreciate that. He says, I had to spend two hours yesterday debugging what happened to my AlbiHub.
Chris: It turns out it was down and I hadn't boosted in a while, and my funds got transferred
Chris: to on-chain. So I had to open up some new channels to get all things going again.
Chris: But thankfully, I got it up in time for the 600th episode.
Chris: Hopefully, I got the math right. now what i love about this is the work he put
Chris: into getting his own self-hosted boosting infrastructure up and going for the
Chris: 600th episode like that is only this show's audience literally,
Chris: only this show's audience in the world would do that right like.
Wes: Let me stand up a bunch of new infrastructure so i can spend money.
Chris: So incredible so incredible so uh i don't know if he was going for particular math but i.
Wes: Think 600 000 but then maybe some of these extra boosts kind of tallied up.
Chris: I see okay all right i see there you go oh 600 for the 60 yeah wow thank you
Chris: again thank you that is really that is really generous really appreciate that.
Wes: Okay so uh speaking of folks who've been working on
Wes: setting up uh albie hubs big lang boosted in uh but we had another issue with
Wes: missing metadata so we're going to investigate that see about it might be a
Wes: upstream lsp issue the stats made it just not the message but you know manual
Wes: back channel so we got 327 170 sats.
Chris: Awesome. Again from a self-hosted setup?
Wes: Yeah.
Chris: Oh my god, amazing.
Wes: Now that was going to be a more reasonable 65k, but five test boosts,
Wes: not sure if it's working, means McLean is super generous.
Chris: Happy 600, he says, in the boost. Thank you, McLean. Really appreciate that.
Brent: Now Vamax sent us two boosts, and they're both quite special.
Brent: One of them here, 100,000 sats.
Chris: Vamax, that's amazing. Thank you.
Brent: So Vamax first boost here. Cheers to 600 for shower thoughts.
Brent: I recommend a memory trick I learned from my pastor.
Chris: Oh.
Brent: Here it goes. Whenever you have a thought you want to remember,
Brent: set that thought as an object in a picture.
Brent: When you have another, add it to that picture in a way that makes sense.
Brent: Then, when you can record things, walk through the picture and write them down.
Brent: For example, when I was listening, driving home, and needed to remember what
Brent: to boost, I pictured the podcast index text box with a brain in it.
Brent: And then for my thoughts on spring tuxies, I added a big plus on top of the brain.
Brent: The more ridiculous the picture, the better.
Wes: I like that. It seems like a variant of the mind palace sort of technique.
Chris: I have a cheap, like I got to remember something and I cannot,
Chris: like I can't write it down or something.
Chris: And that cheap trick is I'll screw something up in the environment.
Chris: like you know put a cup upside down or put something on my keyboard so that
Chris: way when i see it i'm like why the hell did i oh right and that's one of my
Chris: quick go-to tricks but i like that explains.
Brent: A lot about the.
Chris: Studios,
Chris: that's a good trick though.
Brent: Vamax did send in a second boost here one two three four five satoshis.
Chris: Oh you know what that is.
Brent: So it looks like uh this is actually the boost they were trying to remember
Brent: spring plus tuxies That's the stupidest combination I've ever heard in my life.
Chris: Okay. All right. Fair enough. Yeah. I've actually been, I did rethink it later.
Chris: I'm like, that sounds like a pain in the butt. I don't really want to do that.
Chris: Thank you for the boost. Appreciate it. Nostaramo comes in with 100,000 sets.
Chris: 600 times the penguins call brought a lot of fun to one and all.
Wes: Aw, that's nice.
Brent: Wait, what did he call us?
Chris: Well, we are kind of penguins. That's usually what I generate when I generate
Chris: a picture. It's we're penguins in there, you know? I love it.
Brent: You've been doing what?
Chris: Oh, by the way. Thank you, Nostro. Always nice to hear from you.
Wes: KR Hill 94 comes in with 50,000 sets.
Chris: Right.
Wes: Oh, volunteering to try FreeBSD on a Raspberry Pi.
Chris: Aha, noted. Okay. See, what do you guys think about? I was thinking about trying
Chris: it on the Pi 400, not as my main system, but.
Wes: Yeah, at least one of us should. I think that's a good idea. Yeah, okay.
Chris: I'm down to try it on the Pi 400. And sounds like KR is as well.
Chris: Very good, very, very good.
Chris: Sorry.
Brent: Well, Jade Snake came in with 40,000 sats across four booths.
Brent: chris i've been listening since the early lunduk days been a member for many
Brent: years but have been mostly an asynchronous well nice.
Chris: To hear from you.
Brent: Recently upon a reflection it struck me that hundreds of podcasts and media
Brent: personalities have come and gone over the years but you've been the central
Brent: pillar of all my listening not just podcasts, for over 15 years. So thank you.
Chris: Wow, thank you. That's incredible.
Brent: I hereby nominate Chris Lass for Linux King, or at least Prime Minister.
Chris: That makes sense, guys. That makes a lot of sense.
Chris: That's great. Thank you very much. Is that Sam Squanch? Is that who that is?
Brent: That's Sam Squanch.
Chris: Ah, thank you, Sam Squanch. Nice to hear from you. OtterBrain comes in with
Chris: a row of McDucks, 22,222 SATs.
Chris: You guys are the best. Thanks for being the cure for my Sunday scaries.
Chris: Like, because you've got to go to work the next time.
Chris: Congratulations on 600 shows. Looking forward to 600 more. Yeah, buddy.
Brent: Bring it.
Wes: Thank you.
Chris: With the support, we will.
Wes: Tomato comes in with 22,222 sets.
Wes: Congrats on 600.
Chris: Thank you, Tomato.
Wes: I'm excited for you lads to do a free BSD challenge.
Chris: All right.
Wes: I'll actually happily join in. I run NetBSD on some of my servers,
Wes: but haven't given free a try in a while.
Wes: I was also glad to hear Chris made the connection with Nix OS.
Wes: I mean, as someone who's been using Linux and BSD since the 90s,
Wes: the central point of configuration was a nice familiar feature of Nix.
Wes: I wish I could have organized a local meetup for 600, but family things come first. Cheers.
Chris: Understand, Tomato. Maybe for 700. Maybe for 700.
Brent: Jasko boosted in 20,000 sats. Happy episode 600, guys.
Brent: Thank you for all of the hard work over the years building this amazing community.
Chris: Well, thank you for the boost.
Brent: Regarding Linux phones, I'm more excited about the Comet than anything crowdsourced.
Brent: The Librem 5 did leave a bad taste in my mouth.
Brent: I recently solved my mobile Linux fix with an OnePlus 6 running post-market
Brent: OS and have been loving it.
Brent: I built a folding keyboard case around it and have been using it as a handheld laptop.
Chris: Okay. Brett, maybe this is your backup hatch.
Brent: Right? This sounds actually pretty sweet.
Chris: This is your escape hatch if Graphene OS doesn't work out for some reason.
Brent: If I can do a little self-promo, people can find my 3D files,
Brent: build instructions, and photos at jasko.website. slash step.
Chris: That's jasco j-a-s-c-o dot website slash step.
Brent: I still carry an iPhone as a backup device, but have barely been using it.
Chris: Post-market OS and a case that's
Chris: also a keyboard sounds like a pretty interesting combo on a OnePlus 6.
Brent: You know what I just pulled out? In Canada, we used to call it the HTC Dream,
Brent: but it was the old Droid phone, the very first one that had the flip-out keyboard,
Brent: the first Android phone.
Chris: Yeah, I remember that.
Brent: I think it was amazing.
Chris: It was pretty great.
Brent: I had it tucked away in a drawer, and PJ mentioned it, and I pulled it out of
Brent: the drawer, and I just held it in my hands. They knew how to make phones back then.
Chris: I think I kind of peaked on how good I'm going to get at touchscreen keyboards on a phone.
Chris: I'm not horrible at it, but I'm not physical keyboard at it.
Chris: You know, like I'm fast at a physical keyboard.
Chris: In fact, with the Fudo keyboard, I pretty much almost always just use voice
Chris: dictation if I'm doing anything more than a sentence.
Wes: Well, you're still waiting on that Neuralink, right?
Chris: Wouldn't that be nice? Wouldn't that be nice? Only I'd like it to be open source,
Chris: not owned by Elon, and not creepy.
Chris: Distro Stu comes in with 5,000 and two sets.
Chris: Hey, y'all. Missed you the second boost on episode 598 about the Knicks article. Oh, right, right.
Chris: And are you at the Oakland party? Is he there?
Mumble: Yes, yes, yes. I'm here.
Chris: All right. Hello, Distro Stu.
Chris: Thank you for the boost, buddy. Appreciate you. Nice to hear from you.
Brent: Well, ShyFox comes in with Erodox. To automatically set my time zones in NixOS,
Brent: I use services.automatic-timezone-d.
Chris: There you go, Brent. So this is for you and your travel.
Brent: Yeah. I clearly have things to learn. They say it has worked flawlessly while I...
Brent: gallivant gallivant on business trips wait a second those two things seem like they don't match up hey.
Chris: Man make the best of it.
Brent: I love it uh great advice thank you and the second uh boost here says i probably
Brent: should have added my comment was in reference to a pre-show that brian mentioned
Brent: about time zones and i sure did yeah.
Chris: Get your uh get your automatic.
Brent: Time zone actually my computer is telling me the wrong time right i know i'm sure it is i'm.
Chris: Sure it is all right so going back now to distro stew.
Wes: Yeah hey guys thanks for discussing my post nick's
Wes: death by a thousand cuts i like how this conversation has
Wes: been coming up more these days and all the friendly responses i've gotten including
Wes: from multiple c suite folks in the nix world that's nice to hear good clearly
Wes: y'all have drank the nix kool-aid as have i this is why i use nix everywhere
Wes: but this article was very focused on desktop use nix is great on the server
Wes: but are you guys using nix all day every day on the desktop.
Wes: For my work, I regularly get poll and compile open source projects from many languages.
Wes: I think the story for server production use is different, and I should highlight that fact more.
Wes: I get the sense that maybe Wes uses it daily and perhaps is your local flake
Wes: guru who likes to dig deep on solutions and share them across your systems.
Wes: Yeah, okay, that's fair.
Brent: Yeah.
Wes: This is really better as a conversation, and I'm working on a follow-up blog
Wes: post, so I won't rebut each point here, but I will agree with you that comparing
Wes: Nix to traditional Linux is really comparing apples to oranges they are different
Wes: beasts and really provide different features,
Wes: anyway great show and thanks for the discussion see you in march here's hoping
Wes: pasadena is still standing word on the street is the convention center is being
Wes: used as an evacuation shelter these days uh.
Chris: Everything we've heard from folks involved is that things are still on schedule
Chris: and planning to go forward.
Brent: The skating rink is still there too right.
Chris: I'm sure.
Wes: And we'll have some updates i guess in the pretty soon future on our plans did.
Chris: You want to respond to the desktop I had a thought on the desktop thing.
Brent: Oh, you go first.
Chris: You know, this is not a great analogy, and this is something I'd love to have feedback on to refine.
Chris: But to me, it's like asking, are you going to daily drive that car that has an automatic starter?
Chris: Because, you know, the crank engine, they're better cars. You know,
Chris: the one over, yeah, you got to crank it, but it's a better car.
Chris: Like, to me, what Nix is, is finally what developers have always had.
Chris: And the feeling of, I put my instructions into the machine, and the machine
Chris: is manipulated and does what I tell it to do and produces the result I want.
Chris: And we've gotten that in the mechanical world to a pretty fine point.
Chris: But in the software world, there is this nebulous, it works factor.
Chris: And a lot of times it's a bit of a black box.
Chris: And what Nix does is you program the operating system level now.
Chris: It's not as complicated as programming, but it essentially is this.
Chris: And you are programming a computer and you are getting the exact results from
Chris: that computer that you want.
Chris: And anything less than that is this vague black box that is storing a state for you.
Chris: And so to me, it's not a question of different distributions do it differently.
Chris: To me, this is a complete shift in technology.
Chris: We're going from a totally manual something that doesn't work well for everybody
Chris: to something that is completely programmable.
Chris: so now the operating system is programmable and the applications are programmable
Chris: and i i just there's no coming back from that because this is how it should
Chris: have always worked the computer should have always been given instructions and
Chris: then doing done exactly what we tell them to do,
Chris: it's always should have been this way we just we have we didn't do it we took
Chris: a different path and so once you make that kind of switch and thinking there's
Chris: really no going back i think It doesn't make the other stuff less valuable.
Chris: It's just done differently. And, you know, that's why, yeah,
Chris: of course, I use it as a daily driver. Of course I do.
Wes: I do think Stu's onto something here, you know, regularly get pulling and compile
Wes: open source projects from many languages.
Wes: I do think, and maybe we didn't do as good of a job articulating this as I'd like in the episode.
Wes: I think as a, like a DevOps sysadmin developer desktop,
Wes: that might be one area where it's kind of the hardest if you're not also like
Wes: a Nix developer to meet the expectations that you have from a different Linux distribution or a Mac.
Chris: To that point, I think it's, I think that's why it's, it's never going to be
Chris: a hundred percent solution because there's always going to be that legacy because
Chris: we've done it the other way for so long it's there's no going back but uh you
Chris: know for the stuff i run okay.
Mumble: Distro's still here can you hear me i was just saying that using puppet is a
Mumble: lot like or using nix os is a lot like using puppet or ansible to the extreme.
Chris: Yeah yeah turn it up to the max right down to the individual like system d level and.
Wes: Without some of the you know i do some of the same escape patches don't quite.
Chris: Work well.
Brent: I'd like to add to that my experience has been almost exclusively on the desktop
Brent: it's only until quite recently that i've started using it on the server,
Brent: and i've come to love it because of
Brent: its simplicity and maybe that sounds crazy because
Brent: i think maybe that's an unpopular opinion but
Brent: it has made my managing my desktop so much simpler and to the point where i
Brent: have an expectation of what will be on my desktop and it's always that and it
Brent: doesn't deviate from that and i can predict what's going to be there and remove and add things,
Brent: actually quite easily.
Chris: It was really nice when i resurrected an old machine that had been sitting around
Chris: for months and just updated it and got right back to use i mean it cross releases
Chris: anyways moving on i'll take this next one it's from gene bean speaking of gene bean 4011 sats,
Chris: uh he's been setting up his own self-hosted setups too which has been really
Chris: great to see and uh it sounds like he's using nix os on hetzner and he's got
Chris: tail scale loaded up in there too he says regarding the shower aha moments i
Chris: use a voice assistant to remind me in about an hour,
Chris: that is one of the nice things about using the stock os is reminders and things
Chris: like that i that's the number one thing i miss the number one thing is being
Chris: able to park at the machine and set a reminder one day.
Wes: Yeah and i was hearing a bit from gene about this setup and yeah it seems like
Wes: it's working well and it's a nice uh a nice setup i think many folks could uh
Wes: copy and gene took an interesting approach with nginx we were doing i think
Wes: nf tables but for setting.
Chris: Up a.
Wes: Similar setup that.
Chris: You have like a vps front end on hetzner is what he's got and then a actual
Chris: like um you know lightning node on his land which.
Wes: Works especially well if you have to you know you want a full bitcoin node and
Wes: stuff that can have some disk requirements and various other things so.
Chris: Yeah neat.
Wes: Thanks for sharing gene,
Wes: Marcel Bussin with 5,000 sets. Congrats on 600.
Wes: I just got a notice that my Pixel 5 is no longer receiving security updates
Wes: and I should replace it immediately.
Wes: I hate throwing out stuff that works, though. My laptop is 10 years old and
Wes: my mom is still happily using the one that I had before that.
Wes: Why can't Android be more like Linux? I'd definitely be interested in a Linux phone.
Wes: I also hate that everything has to be a stupid app these days.
Wes: If I could do all my sensitive stuff like banking on my computer,
Wes: I wouldn't really have to worry so much if I just stuck with the Pixel 5.
Wes: Old man yells at cloud, I guess.
Chris: Yeah, I mean, this is where post-market can kind of step in,
Chris: right, to a degree for some of these things.
Chris: But it is really, so many things are app-based and require all the Google crap.
Chris: It is a bad situation. It's only slightly better on iOS, you know.
Chris: But an iPhone 7 or whatever is probably getting rolled off right now.
Wes: Yeah.
Brent: Something like that. Well, Sire boosted in a total of 3,000 sets.
Brent: If you guys are moving forward with this challenge, I will do gaming benchmarks,
Brent: Arch versus FreeBSD, and I will boost those results.
Chris: Whoa, right. Putting that down, that's great.
Brent: Also, thank you again for all the amazing content that you put out through the
Brent: years. I should have boosted sooner. It was so easy.
Chris: Oh, good. I'm glad it wasn't too hard. Thank you for setting it up.
Brent: They say here, by the way, postcode boost, except it's J3B2Echo2.
Brent: You're all going to need Brent to pronounce it. Please don't let me down, Brent.
Chris: Oh, my.
Brent: Is it like St. Louis L'Haha or something?
Wes: Well, let's find out.
Chris: Is this maybe a perplexity question? Let's be real. Maybe this is a little beyond the map.
Wes: Well, I'll send it to Brent here. I've got my initial map.
Brent: Ganonokwe or something?
Wes: Well, here, I gave you a Slack if you want. Oh, I'll just look over your shoulder. It's fine.
Chris: He's in studio. He can just look over your shoulder. Oh, my God.
Chris: Okay. Now, while you guys...
Brent: Okay, it's in Quebec.
Chris: Oh.
Brent: It's Saint-Jean-sur-Richelieu. Oh.
Chris: Good fishing up there in Quebec.
Brent: You know, I was thinking of Quebec the other day, but I'll tell you that story later.
Chris: Hmm. Well, I hear it's good fishing up there. I hear he's a good guy.
Chris: Thanks for boosting in. Appreciate that. That was fun.
Chris: Open Source Accountant is back.
Chris: And he says, for shower thoughts, I use something I learned about while building
Chris: roads and bridges in the Seattle area.
Chris: Waterproof paper and a Ticonderoga pencil tied to it.
Chris: Nothing between me and the documenting my thoughts while I'm in the shower.
Chris: Still working on the diving solution, though.
Chris: Open source accountant, email me, chris at jupiterbroadcasting.com.
Chris: I got questions for you, and I don't know. I got to do taxes.
Chris: Maybe you and I should connect up.
Chris: I think you could maybe be a good accountant. I got complaints with my current
Chris: accountant. Let me know.
Brent: Uh-oh.
Chris: Yeah. You know? Nice to hear from you, too.
Wes: In a similar vein, John Spriggs in our Matrix chat suggested grease pencils on ceramic walls.
Brent: You see, I should have went that direction instead of that permanent marker I was using.
Wes: Yeah.
Chris: Because now you've got to keep getting new showers.
Brent: It's annoying. You've got to retile the whole thing.
Wes: Neural P comes in with 6,000 sats. Happy 600. Here's to more BSD.
Chris: Thank you.
Brent: We're going to have to change the name of the show.
Chris: BSD unplugged.
Brent: Gentoo Netiquette came in with 5,000 sats.
Brent: A BSD boost? I have my free BSD 6.2 install CDs in my hand as this goes out.
Brent: Good luck and try not to go to BSD jail.
Chris: Thank you. Thank you. Rotted Moods here with 10,000 sats.
Chris: And all he says is live long and prosper. Thank you. Thank you.
Wes: Nov comes in with 3,333 sats. No message, just the sats.
Chris: Thank you very much.
Wes: But 412 Linux boosted in with 8,000 sats.
Wes: Congrats on 600. Thanks for putting in all the seen and unseen effort to make this show every week.
Wes: I've listened to at least 500 of these episodes.
Chris: Wow.
Wes: Each week, it feels like hanging out with good friends.
Chris: Thank you.
Wes: Be proud of what you've accomplished. Well done.
Chris: Thanks.
Brent: Aw.
Wes: I feel the Broadcom acquisition, they go on, of VMware has had a similar seismic
Wes: change in many aspects of IT infrastructure.
Chris: Yeah.
Wes: One difference is that the change has opened up conversations regarding open software.
Chris: And it seems to be opening the
Chris: door for Proxmox. This has been great for Proxmox, which is good to see.
Chris: Thank you, 412, something we don't talk much about, so I'm glad you got a chance
Chris: to get that in there. It's nice to hear from you.
Brent: Dex sword sent in 4,321 sats.
Brent: Happy 600 boys and happy Sunday. Looking forward to 600 more cheers.
Chris: Well, thank you, Dex. Good to hear from you. Cybeth's here with 10,000 sats. Happy 600 episodes.
Wes: Sam H comes in with a row of ducks.
Wes: Happy 600 from the Atlanta meetup.
Chris: Hey, Atlanta meetup, thank you.
Brent: And Soul Reaper follows that up with 6,666 sats. Hello from the Oakland CA meetup.
Chris: Hello, Oakland! That's great. That's hilarious. And user 88 is here with 9,001 sats.
Chris: Shout out from the Oakland crew.
Brent: Nice.
Wes: Gretton comes in with 5,000 sats. cheers from atl bit lab.
Chris: Yeah all right oh.
Brent: We got this guy here a p pj producer jeff 6666 sets simple says woo 600.
Chris: Woo thank you pj lray 741 i'll say the whole thing lray 741's here with 9000
Chris: one sets oh super happy to briefly speak to y'all in the mumble congrats on
Chris: 600 i look forward to continuing to supporting your originality and love you all. Including Drew.
Wes: Heck yeah.
Chris: Thank you for being so awesome. I'll keep listening to the members feed.
Chris: Uh oh, now you can hear me mispronouncing. Oh no!
Chris: Thank you. Very nice. Appreciate you very much. Thank you everybody who boosted into episode 600.
Chris: That is all of the boosts above the 2000s at cutoff, but we keep all of them
Chris: in there. Appreciate you.
Chris: And also a shout out to our sat streamers. 34 of you streamed sats as you listened
Chris: to our last episode, and collectively,
Chris: you helped us stack 58,490 sats just by streaming them as you listen,
Chris: and we really appreciate you.
Chris: Then when you combine that with our boosters this week, which we had 30 total,
Chris: we stacked a grand total of 1,304,157,000 sats! Whatever it is!
Chris: 1.3 million.
Wes: That's incredible. It really should be 1.6 because that doesn't include the
Wes: manual McClane because I didn't get to that. So even better.
Chris: Wow.
Wes: That's wild.
Chris: That's really great. Thank you. What a fantastic way to celebrate 600 episodes.
Chris: And like I said earlier in the show, episode 600 is our down payment on just getting started.
Chris: We have 600 more to do, and we just want to make it better than ever.
Chris: And it's your support between the booths and the memberships that have kept us going.
Chris: and really thank you everyone a big round of applause to everybody who supports
Chris: the show either monetarily or through their time or through networking we really
Chris: do appreciate it this round of applause is for you,
Chris: If you'd like to boost in, you can do it with Fountain and Strike to get the sats.
Chris: Those we generally have linked in the show notes. You can go to bitcoinwell.com
Chris: slash jupiter if you want to buy some sats and send them directly to your self-hosted wallet.
Chris: Or there's lots of links at podcastapps.com. Lots of ways to do it.
Chris: All right, now it's time to talk about the FreeBSD Challenge.
Chris: So I tried to collect all the booster feedback there. It sounds like KR is willing
Chris: to try it on a pie, and I'm going to do that, too.
Chris: Sire's going to benchmark Arch versus FreeBSD and boost on the results.
Chris: Tomato is going to join us as well on the free side.
Chris: And Blumenstrong emailed us about NixBSD.
Brent: What?
Chris: Which is an unofficial NixOS fork with a free BSD kernel. So I think this is where we have to start.
Chris: Do we allow this or do we disqualify this?
Brent: So the question is, what is considered FreeBSD?
Wes: Yeah, I think if you only did this, it wouldn't count, but it could be bonus points on top.
Chris: Okay.
Wes: Right?
Chris: I could go for that.
Wes: Like, you should give, like, straight FreeBSD a go in some version or something more close to it.
Chris: Okay, so I've done, I have a couple of things to try.
Chris: We have two points and five-point categories, and I think this could be a five-point
Chris: category. So I'll put it in the five-point category.
Chris: All right, so it turns out that the FreeBSD wiki has a speedrun page.
Brent: Oh, yeah, that's true.
Chris: Yeah, and it's not something that seems like super popular, but it's a thing people do.
Wes: Wait, this is a race?
Chris: No, but they do have some like guidelines that I reviewed to help kind of structure
Chris: the rules for this particular challenge.
Chris: Because our hope is the audience will participate along with us,
Chris: boost in or join the Mumba Room and tell us how it's going.
Chris: So here's a couple of the rules. You boys are welcome to object because these
Chris: are not firm yet. We're going to lock them in after we've reviewed them.
Chris: So number one, your BSD install must be manual and unscripted.
Chris: In other words, you ran through the installer. You didn't use,
Chris: like, somebody else's thing to install it for you.
Brent: Well, that gets me thinking, like, are we specifically doing FreeBSD or just the BSD?
Chris: The BSD.
Brent: Because some of them automate this, right?
Chris: I think on the table right now, we're GhostBSD and FreeBSD. But I think FreeBSD
Chris: should be, has to be looked at.
Brent: Okay.
Chris: Because particularly, we're looking at some of the recent innovations of FreeBSD.
Brent: All right.
Chris: They've done some nice stuff. So you got to do a regular install.
Chris: You can't do, like, some script that auto-installs it for you or anything like that.
Chris: So hardware can be virtual or bare metal. I think bare metal, we'll probably all try.
Chris: But for the audience, I think we should totally allow virtual machines. That's allowed.
Chris: It runs for two weeks. So it starts today.
Chris: We do a check-in in 601 and a conclusion in 602.
Chris: So people can kind of tell us what's working, what's not working.
Chris: We can see the direction things are going. You know, if we need to make any
Chris: amendments next episode.
Chris: But I think we should come up with, if you bail from the challenge,
Chris: there's a punishment. Like you have to do something.
Chris: And I think we need, okay, you got, you already have an idea?
Brent: Well, no, I'm thinking like what's considered bailing.
Chris: Like if you can't get it working.
Brent: Okay. Okay. Okay. But what if like you get it working and then you just don't
Brent: really boot into it for the rest of the time?
Chris: Here's the, here's the thing. So you have to, you have to stack a few points.
Chris: So you get two points if you get it installed and get it on the internet.
Chris: Both. Not just for two points to get installed and on the internet.
Brent: Wait, this feels like a hint of how hard this might be. Oh, no.
Chris: You get two points if you record audio from a working desktop session.
Chris: So we could play a clip of you saying, hey, guys, this is so-and-so.
Chris: I'm on my FreeBSD desktop. I recorded this in Audacity. And then you make that
Chris: a flack and you send it into the show somehow. It'll send us a link or something.
Chris: You do it. We do it. We all see if we can get recorded audio from a free BSD
Chris: desktop. You get two points for that.
Chris: If you can get one server quote or like service, like an application that's
Chris: accessible via the LAN, that's two points.
Chris: Okay. So those are the two point categories. Install and get it online.
Chris: Record audio of yourself from a working desktop.
Chris: Get something like a server, an application that's accessible via the LAN.
Chris: That gets you, each one of those will get you two points.
Chris: then we have the five point category now
Chris: for five points if you can get an app running inside
Chris: pod man or jails if you
Chris: install and get a working firewall if you can get tail scale working on bsd
Chris: you can get five points for each one of these and if you try out two other bsds
Chris: or like two combos of bsds like a net bsd and a free bsd or ghost bsd and free
Chris: bsd and another set of five points if you try out Nick's BSD.
Chris: We'll publish these in the show notes as Markdown. There'll be a list in the
Chris: show notes. So everybody can go to linuxunplugged.com slash 600, see these categories.
Chris: Does all of this seem pretty agreeable and follow up? I wanted a couple of measurable things.
Wes: Yeah.
Chris: Didn't want to go too far that everybody couldn't participate.
Chris: And I think we'll still get some good experience. You can always take it further,
Chris: of course. How do you feel, Brentley, about this?
Brent: I feel like I know the least about what I'm getting into at this point.
Chris: Good.
Brent: I thought I knew. Now I feel like I have no idea.
Chris: Good. All right. I like that. So I think this kind of incorporates.
Wes: I would add maybe, should there be a component, and we could discuss it on the
Wes: show, but like, you know, if you did something not listed here,
Wes: but you, can you argue for some points?
Wes: You know, like, oh, hey, I ended up taking this route, but I think it represents,
Wes: that should be a two-pointer.
Chris: Okay. A two-pointer? I was going to say, would you be okay with a two-pointer?
Chris: Like, we could have an extra credit to be decided.
Wes: Yeah.
Chris: We could debate it.
Brent: No, it should be a five-pointer if you're going to debate for it.
Chris: No.
Wes: Oh, there might be both versions.
Brent: Depending on how much you need to debate for the points.
Chris: Too. Yeah, hold on, hold on. All right. We've got to come up with a punishment, though, if you fail.
Chris: So if you don't get more than five points or something total.
Chris: There has to be a threshold and then a punishment, but this is the part I'm not going to.
Wes: Yeah, I think if you can't get to a system that you're using for something, right?
Wes: Like, okay, maybe desktop didn't work, but you at least got it serving something
Wes: you got on a jellyfish. Some sort of thing that you would use Linux for,
Wes: but it's running on FreeBSD, or you set up ZFS, or, you know, whatever.
Wes: Or you got, like, a desktop going that was, you could run stuff and play.
Wes: If you don't get at least one of those, it seems like you didn't actually try it.
Chris: Yeah.
Brent: So, wall of shame, basically, is what you're looking to put together. Is that?
Chris: I don't know. I don't know.
Wes: You got to run Windows for a week?
Brent: Oh.
Chris: But that's so much work.
Wes: That's why it's a punishment.
Brent: You just have to install Windows. It's punishment enough.
Chris: Hmm. Hmm. Or you got to use like office or something for a week, like office 365.
Chris: I know there's probably some people listening that already have to do that though.
Brent: You can't use dark mode.
Chris: I don't use dark mode as much anymore though. So it wouldn't be as big of a.
Brent: Oh yeah. You know, had you not said that.
Chris: That's true. I could have just rolled with it. That's true. No,
Chris: we need a good punishment.
Brent: You know, you have to set your system font to comic sans for a week.
Chris: That's not bad. What do you think of that was?
Wes: Yeah, okay.
Chris: So if you fail the challenge...
Wes: But it's got to be like a system-wide thing.
Brent: Yeah, system-wide.
Chris: So if you fail the challenge, so if you fail to stack more than five points...
Chris: You've got to set your whole system to Comic Sans. So once you engage in the
Chris: challenge, you need at least five or more points, or you're going Comic Sans for a week.
Brent: I could see PJ loving this one.
Chris: I think I could do—let's see if we've got some consensus in the Mumber Room.
Chris: Mumber Room, I'm coming up there.
Brent: To be clear, your daily driver must be Comic Sans.
Chris: How do we feel about these rules and challenges? Anybody have any suggestions?
Chris: Everybody okay with this? This is your last—basically speak now, or you're roped in?
Mumble: This is easy. I can get this done tonight, guys.
Chris: Okay, all right. All right. Okay, all right.
Mumble: I think anything with a Linux user land is straight up cheating.
Mumble: I love the ideas of them, but that's not BSD.
Chris: Right, okay. Yeah. Yeah, you can play around with the Linux compatibility to
Chris: see if it works, but you can't solve.
Chris: You're trying to get it to work on BSD by using that. Yeah, I agree.
Mumble: And punishment-wise, if you bail, you have to install Windows on bare metal
Mumble: and get your Linux environment running in WSL2.
Chris: Jeez you guys are I.
Mumble: Second that right on alright alright.
Chris: Windows on bare metal. Jeez, that's what I get for going up there and asking
Chris: them. All right, so there we go.
Chris: So if you fail, you got to go get yourself a Windows ISO from Microsoft,
Chris: which is kind of a PETA, but doable.
Chris: And you got to put it on bare metal. You don't got to activate it.
Chris: You don't got to pay for it.
Brent: But you do have to switch it to Comic Sans.
Chris: And you have to switch to Comic Sans. Should we add that?
Brent: Yeah, I think so.
Chris: All right, and you have to switch to Comic Sans.
Brent: Just to remind you of the paint.
Wes: And we're going to want to see a screenshot of the Windows Comic Sans desktop.
Chris: Oh, I would like to see a screenshot. You're right. Thank you, Wes.
Chris: Good catch. Okay, so if this is all viable, what we would like is for you to,
Chris: you know, over the next week, get FreeBSD going on a system,
Chris: and then join the mumble room or boost in with your progress and let us know how it's going for you.
Chris: Because next week is essentially our chance to do a check-in,
Chris: do any course correction, or kind of make early predictions if somebody's going
Chris: to bail, which seems totally possible.
Brent: Listener Jeff says, I'm just going to switch to Comic Sans right now.
Chris: Jeff. Jeff, come on. Come on. All right. So there you go. That's all locked
Chris: in. And good luck, everybody.
Chris: Now, before we get out of here, we have a pick. And I don't know which one of
Chris: you boys found this one. And I'll be honest.
Chris: Right now, I'm going to tell you, I have not tried this.
Chris: But it's called Durr-Im-VS Code. Durr-Im-VS Code.
Brent: Do you have any guess?
Chris: And it unclutters your .profile for, I'm a guess, VS Code, but I don't actually
Chris: know. Did you find this one I'm guessing, Brent?
Brent: No, I don't think it was me. It's definitely a Wes thing. Come on.
Chris: Oh, you found. Okay.
Wes: I just saw it mentioned in some discussions I was reading.
Chris: Since when are you a VS Code guy? Are you a VS Code guy?
Wes: Well, I use it for closure things.
Brent: Since when am I a dear imp guy?
Wes: I use a lot of Vim and NeoVim too, but.
Wes: for full-on interactive environment. I don't actually use this.
Wes: There's a lot of good... Durham, in general, is great.
Chris: Look at this strong pick for $600.
Wes: It wasn't even in the dock. I didn't know you were...
Chris: You found it. I thought you'd like it, so I just went with it.
Brent: A boost in your picks.
Wes: It's an overture to folks that you can use Durham plus Nix in various ways to
Wes: have Nix shells. Really nice.
Chris: Durham.
Wes: Will handle just like automatically set it up for you if you like that kind
Wes: of thing but duranv is useful for all kinds of projects so even if you don't
Wes: want to mess with nix at all you can still use duranv and uh you know if you're
Wes: using vs code here's a nice integration for that.
Chris: And you know what more power to you if you're using vs code right
Chris: more power to you i suppose
Chris: i don't know if we made a i don't know if we made this a pick yet but since
Chris: uh we're kind of just flying by the seat of our pants for episode 600 i'm going
Chris: to give a shout out to an app that's only useful if you use flat packs and so
Chris: if you don't use flat packs you can just ignore me for a second and i'll just
Chris: make it real quick it's called warehouse i.
Wes: Thought app images were the official new package format of the show.
Chris: Yeah good uh lets you manage your installed flat packs uh roll back to unwanted
Chris: updates which has happened to me once before that is nice pin runtimes and mask
Chris: flat packs you can filter data.
Chris: You can check for updates. You can take snapshots of the app and user data.
Chris: You can override the source, install from a remote source.
Chris: Also responsive UI design. So there you go. It's called Warehouse.
Brent: It's basically like a standalone Flatpak GUI from what I'm guessing with advanced features.
Chris: Yeah, kind of, yeah.
Brent: That's sweet.
Chris: And you combine that with something like what is it, FlatSeal?
Chris: You know, so you can manage the permissions.
Wes: Very nice.
Chris: It is really pretty slick. It is,
Chris: Well, that brings us to the end of episode 600, boys.
Wes: We made it.
Chris: I went pretty quick. Look at that mobile room. That is amazing.
Chris: I wish I could screenshot that
Chris: and make it the album art. That is really something pretty impressive.
Chris: It's incredible the server is actually holding up. If you've been listening
Chris: for a long time or you've just begun, we really appreciate you tuning in and catching the show.
Chris: You are always welcome to join us. We generally do it live on Sundays.
Chris: We've recently been doing it a little bit earlier, but we always keep it up
Chris: to date at jupiterbroadcasting.com slash calendar, and we mark it pending in
Chris: the podcasting 2.0 apps as well.
Chris: So you can join that matrix chat, you can join that mumble room,
Chris: or you can just tune in at jblive.fm and just listen to anything that supports an ice-cast stream.
Chris: And it's pretty simple. And then, of course, the show releases Sunday evening our time.
Chris: And take a look and see if the transcript's working for you.
Chris: If it's not working, I don't need a ton of app messages.
Chris: I don't know, maybe a GitHub issue? I don't know the right way to report it.
Chris: we should have a system for that we really should but you know we would like
Chris: to know if there's problems but it's new take a look at the transcripts and let us know maybe.
Wes: Put it in the LUP feedback room but don't tag anyone to start and we'll.
Chris: Check on it there's a matrix LUP feedback room that could work you could also
Chris: boost in your feedback on it and of course we want to hear how it's going,
Chris: with the BSD challenge good luck everybody this should be a fun one and of course
Chris: links to what we talked about today are over at linuxunplugged.com slash 600,
Chris: and there you'll probably what do we really have i guess we could we should
Chris: probably link to a ghost bsd i'll link to to the speed challenges wiki page that's kind of cool also.
Brent: The bsd what is it the book the manual the what do they call it.
Chris: Oh yeah we the apps we got we also right here in studio got the absolute free bsd book classic.
Wes: By michael w lucas yep.
Brent: It is a brick.
Chris: It is we'll be reading that this weekend right that's what we're doing i was.
Wes: Thinking we'd use one of those new fancy ai tools to turn it into an audiobook.
Chris: There you go. You know what, boys? Actually, we got to get out of here because
Chris: we have our own meetup and party to get to right here in the Pacific Northwest.
Chris: Thank you so much for listening to this week's episode of Linux Unplugged.
Chris: We hope you'll tune in next week and the week after and the week after that.
Chris: And we'll see you right back here next Tuesday, as in Sunday.