Chris: Why not make it a Linux Tuesday on a Sunday? Join us Sunday,
Chris: 10 a.m. Pacific, 1 p.m. Eastern.
Chris: And remember, if you want more show, we got that LUP-LUG every Sunday before
Chris: the show, getting together, LUP-LUG details at our website.
Chris: And of course, links to everything we talked about today. Technically,
Chris: everything we've talked about in the past, too.
Chris: And how to contact us, Mumble Room, Matrix, all that, linuxunplugged.com.
Chris: Don't forget you can support us at boost.jupiterbroadcasting.com.
Chris: Thank you so much for joining us this week.
Wes: Whoa, whoa, you're not going to tell them? We got all kinds of special stuff
Wes: in the feed. We got JSON. We got cloud chapters. We got transcripts.
Wes: We got an MP4 file in there. Who put that in there? A whole giant MP4 file.
Wes: It's actually not that big.
Chris: Did you put that in there?
Wes: Yeah.
Chris: All right. All right. We'll see you next Tuesday, as in Sunday.
Chris: And don't forget about that live stream.
Chris: All right. Normally, I think we'd be done right here. But before we wrap up,
Chris: I just want to say thank you to our friends over at Define Networking.
Chris: Define.net slash unplug.
Chris: Go over there and check out Manage Nebula from Define Networking.
Chris: It's built on the open source Nebula platform that we love and use right now.
Chris: And now you can take advantage of their automatic lighthouse or you can add
Chris: your own or combo it all up.
Chris: That's the thing. It's control. And that's what's big for me because it's my
Chris: infrastructure. It's my network infrastructure.
Chris: I can own the entire stack. I can turn it on. I can turn it off. I control it.
Chris: and I can use their lighthouse if I want. I think that's fantastic.
Chris: And Nebula is lightweight on systems that are sitting there idle.
Chris: It uses very little CPU and network.
Chris: Some of the other solutions, real chatty, constantly chatty.
Chris: And that matters a lot when you're running it across your entire home lab on
Chris: your remote systems. Maybe you're on a Starlinkle. It matters.
Chris: And the great thing about Nebula is it's built for scale from day one.
Chris: With strong encryption, decentralized by design, it stays resilient.
Chris: So get started. 100 hosts for free. No credit card required.
Chris: Go to Define.net slash unplug. That is Define.net slash unplug.
Chris: Big thank you to Define Networking.
Chris: All right, boys, before we run, we've got some picks to get to.
Chris: And I wanted to hit you with a strange one. This is a big one. It's LAN Orangutan.
Chris: And it is a lightweight network scanner that goes through and labels your network.
Chris: But it is easy and simple, but yet efficient.
Chris: Take a look at it. What do you think? What was your first impression?
Wes: Yeah, it's clean. So, like, we've talked a lot about tools vaguely in this camp.
Wes: But, and sometimes I like this, but often you kind of get information overload.
Chris: Right?
Wes: You're like all kinds of details, hardware stuff that I probably don't need
Wes: for whatever it is the task I'm actually trying to do.
Chris: And maybe I don't need it for like ever, right? I just want to know for a little
Chris: while so I can spin up real quick.
Wes: Whereas this just looks like a very clean dashboard you could take a quick glance
Wes: at and get a sense for what's going on.
Chris: Here you go, Brentley. So when you get moved, when you get your network going,
Chris: I want you to pop this thing up and take a screenshot for us,
Chris: all right? It's a self-hosted network discovery tool for home labbers,
Chris: and it has tailscale support as well.
Wes: Oh, and there's a CLI. I like that.
Chris: Auto-discovers your devices, password protected. What do you think?
Chris: When you get your new LAN online?
Brent: It looks like it's been around a while, too, yeah. I mean, I have not really
Brent: done very good network monitoring, I have to say.
Brent: And just last week, I was like, huh, I should probably know what's happening
Brent: on the network here, wherever I am. You know, I'm kind of in charge of the network
Brent: wherever I seem to end up, so...
Brent: I should do better. And this is maybe a tool that can help me do that.
Brent: So thank you for the picks.
Chris: Do better.
Wes: I like they have a philosophy in here, actually, which we kind of touched on
Wes: without maybe even fully realizing.
Wes: Lan Orangutan isn't trying to be the most powerful scanner out there.
Wes: And that's the point. It's built to be the simplest and the fastest one to reach for.
Wes: There's a bunch of already excellent, deeply capable tools in this space.
Wes: And they're the right choice when you need everything they offer.
Wes: Lan Orangutan is for the other times.
Chris: Also, you know, you could, if you're a Clanker user, you could have the CLI
Chris: kind of do these audits and it'll do the output as JSON and the Clanker can
Chris: take that in. You could just spin up this thing, do a little network scan and
Chris: then get a Clanker report.
Wes: Even CSV if you have like an enterprise Clanker.
Brent: I'm going through like the docs here trying to figure out where the naming comes
Brent: from. I don't think I found anything. So, listener, if you have any ideas or
Brent: theories or, I don't know, make up some reason why the orangutan is the land expert, let us know.
Chris: Maybe it's a reference to another tool. I don't know. MIT license on that one.
Chris: And then really quickly, this isn't going to surprise anyone.
Chris: I just had to give it a shout because it saved my bacon a couple of times in just the last week.
Chris: I'm kind of embarrassed. It's called local send. I don't know why.
Chris: It's just there are so many of these stupid open source send a file from one
Chris: computer to the other that it almost feels embarrassing to even have a pick.
Chris: But I like LocalSend because it's a local app on every OS. So like on the desktop,
Chris: it's a desktop application. On iOS, it's an iOS application.
Chris: On Android, it's an Android application.
Wes: I did a little spelunking. And it's interesting that it's finally landed because
Wes: we talked about it ages and ages ago on the show. And you and Alex talked about
Wes: it on a self-hosted episode.
Wes: But it felt like maybe it was one of those picks where it's like,
Wes: oh, this is cool and seems useful. But then if you never actually deploy it,
Wes: you don't quite use it. So what changed that you're using it?
Chris: So I was taking pictures of the chickens and whatnot, and I wanted to transfer
Chris: them to the desktop. And there's just not, from the iPhone at least,
Chris: not a lot of great options here. If I were on Android, I might use KDE Connect.
Chris: But so I set this up. But then because it works across Android,
Chris: it works across Linux and iOS, then it's like, well, let's all just use this.
Chris: And it'll queue up downloads too. The desktop app's pretty nice.
Chris: You can auto-accept files from certain favorite people and things like that,
Chris: which is really nice. Like I just grabbed this and I just want to blast it over
Chris: to the machine. I don't have to be at my desktop and approve it.
Chris: And so it's like one of these things where I, you know, I've actually been using this.
Chris: And I don't know if we've made an implicit pick, but we have talked about it
Chris: before. And it also, it's all local, right? So there's no like routing through
Chris: the internet or anything like that. So it's as fast as your LAN can blast the file.
Brent: This is one of those apps that since the last time we talked about it,
Brent: it's been installed on my phone. Yeah.
Brent: I guess, and my laptop, which I, is it? And on my phone, every time I go like,
Brent: you know, do some spring cleaning on my phone, I'm like, well,
Brent: I only use this once, maybe twice a year.
Chris: Yeah.
Brent: And then I will always land with, well, you never know, I'm going to keep it.
Brent: So this has been installed for a very long time for me.
Brent: Used it a couple of times. It's saved my bacon, but it's nice.
Chris: What I appreciate about it is like, if I'm doing, if I'm transferring some drone
Chris: footage or I took some pictures of the kids or the chickens and I want to do
Chris: a batch, It's really good at a whole bunch of files, too. And then on the desktop,
Chris: I get, like, a visual status progress of all the files transferring and stuff.
Chris: So I like LocalSend, and it's available on Flathub, and it is Apache 2.0.
Wes: I figured out what's going on here. Well, it's 17.5% rust.
Chris: Oh. Do you think that justifies?
Wes: Well, the rest of it, it's Dart. I know you're a big Dart guy.
Chris: Big Dart guy.
Wes: Huge Dart and Flutter fan, so.
Chris: Make a lot of choices in life on that, you know? That ATM uses Flutter,
Chris: I'm picking that bank. That's how I roll.
Brent: Before we get out of here, I have a sneaky pick for you guys.
Chris: Yeah, I want to know about this. You snuck it in, we don't have any idea about it.
Wes: Yeah, the council didn't get to approve it.
Chris: Usually when that happens, it means it's a banger, so we'll see.
Brent: Hasn't even been vetted by the bot. I've been toying with this one for the last couple of weeks.
Brent: I, you know, we've been on the show really enjoying open code on the desktop
Brent: to do a great variety of things. And I have deeply integrated that into my everyday workflow.
Brent: I wanted something similar on the phone.
Brent: On the phone, it's often like just the chat app kind of interaction that at least I've found.
Brent: But I wanted something simple and yet powerful. And maybe that's asking too
Brent: much. But I came across something called Oxproxion, which surprisingly...
Wes: Say that again?
Chris: Oxproxion.
Wes: It's a fun name to say.
Brent: Surprisingly, I only like read it once. And then it's a very memorable name
Brent: for some reason for me. It might not be for other people. Sounds kind of dark, maybe.
Brent: But it's just an Android LM chat interface, but it supports OpenRider, which we love.
Brent: And you can also have it support a bunch of locally served models,
Brent: like OLAMA, LMStudio stuff, LAMA CPP, and also, Chris, Hermes Agents.
Chris: Hey, oh, really? I like that.
Brent: So it's kind of like a nice mobile interface to your favorite providers,
Brent: but it also has some pretty powerful features in there.
Brent: And some of it is, and I haven't played with all of these, but some Android
Brent: tools. So it can do stuff like read files, make files on your Android.
Brent: But also take control of like timers and alarms and calendar events and stuff like that.
Chris: On your local Android?
Brent: Mm-hmm.
Wes: Now that is promising.
Chris: All right. So you can use it to automate like a calendar event on your phone?
Brent: That's what I'm thinking. Now this has not been tested or vetted by me yet.
Brent: I see this could be super useful.
Brent: I do hesitate slightly because I don't know. But it seems very promising.
Brent: So I've been using this for the last couple of weeks.
Brent: I will say the interface is all symbols, and therefore you need to just trip
Brent: over what the symbols mean and try to figure it out. But once you do, it's pretty powerful.
Chris: What do you mean? I see tons of text. What are you talking about?
Chris: Like all the model selection is text and everything.
Brent: Yeah, that's like kind of one of the back interfaces once you hit one of the buttons.
Chris: Ah, ah.
Brent: Yeah, yeah. So that's my only gripe about it, I would say. Other than that,
Brent: you can save conversations and bring them back up and continue them.
Chris: And I assume you're able to install this with Obsidian, I assume?
Brent: Um, you are able to install this with.
Chris: Obsidian.
Brent: No, not Obsidian. What's it called? I always remember this one.
Chris: I do that all the time. I do that all the time.
Wes: I see an APK on GitHub.
Chris: Which is usually a good. They even kind of have semi-similar icons with my theme.
Brent: It's the worst.
Chris: Because I have like an all-black icon theme. It's, ah, yeah.
Brent: So, Obtainium grabs basically APKs straight from GitHub. It's awesome.
Brent: You can definitely do that here. It's also an FDroid. That's where I found it.
Chris: It also will connect, obviously, to a local Olama instance. because it's LLM
Chris: Studio. It's model agnostic, which is right.
Brent: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Chris: Oxproxion?
Brent: Oxproxion.
Chris: Mostly written in Kotlin, and it is Apache 2.0 licensed. Well, there you go.
Wes: This seems like giving a try. Good find, Brent.
Chris: Look at him. He's fully immersed now. There's no getting him back.
Brent: It's your fault.
Wes: Now all we need is, like, audio support maybe in this thing?
Chris: Yeah.
Wes: Web RTC?
Chris: Indeed.
Brent: Hmm.
Chris: Well, we're going to start out with a heck of a baller boost,
Chris: boys, so get your seatbelt on because I'm glad we got them retrofitted.
Chris: Lutris, um...
Brent: Lucidropy.
Wes: Yeah.
Chris: Kind of like entropy.
Wes: But with Lutris.
Chris: Yeah. Right. Comes in with 314,659 sats.
Chris: Oh!
Chris: Wow, that is great. That is great. Cool. He says, Py for your efforts.
Chris: Thanks for all you do. Been trying out Hermes with Open Router using Nemetron's super, super, super.
Wes: Nemetron's gotten surprisingly good.
Chris: And popular. Trying to find a cost-effective models that are also good at network
Chris: management, say like an OpenWRT, and playing with NixConfig,
Chris: the NixOS MCP, and troubleshooting on Arch and Ubuntu occasionally,
Chris: and writing some basic Python bash scripts to automate tasks with occasional small coding projects.
Chris: I've been using Cloud Code for most of this, but want to move away from that.
Chris: Any suggestions? I prefer it open source.
Chris: So, Wes, this is probably a best question for you because you've even gone as
Chris: far as renting some GPU and running some models directly in the open source
Chris: space. So you probably have the most hands-on experience.
Wes: It kind of depends on, yeah, are you trying to run it yourself?
Wes: Then you're going to be mostly constrained by what token rate do you need and
Wes: how much RAM or VRAM you have.
Chris: Sounds like he's open to open router, though.
Wes: Yeah. And so for there, I mean, one version is just go take,
Wes: you can curl their API or have the bot do it.
Wes: And then it's pretty easy to check out, like, what are good prices and what
Wes: are currently free. and then you can easily sample all of those.
Wes: Obviously, there's like the latest version 731 of DeepSeek that's been quite
Wes: popular and works very nicely.
Wes: QEN 3.7 has been pretty good. There's also a new QEN 3.8 Max,
Wes: I think, floating around.
Wes: And there's a bunch of like more interesting ones like Ling or Laguna or Longcat
Wes: that kind of pop around that show you what smaller labs can do that I think can be fun to evaluate.
Wes: But I probably get the most use in terms of open weight models that I pay for
Wes: per token out of DeepSeek. And then I also like Memo a lot because it's pretty
Wes: good and it's got vision.
Chris: I would also add, maybe hang on to the Cloud subscription for a couple of weeks,
Chris: try these out, and then audit what they produce with the Cloud code.
Wes: There you go.
Chris: And then when you find something that you like, yeah, you stick with it.
Chris: And then you can wrap up the Cloud code subscription. I think that's probably a decent way to go.
Brent: Can I suggest maybe a wild card here?
Chris: Yeah, you got a wild card? Go for it, you wild man.
Brent: So I've been doing a lot of these very tasks.
Brent: OpenWRT configurations, check, Nix configs. Yep, check, check.
Brent: Troubleshooting Arch and Ubuntu. Well, yes, very occasionally.
Brent: Unfortunately, I still have a system I'm dealing with. But it's made that system way better.
Brent: So I think I fit really well in this one. And I have found an insane amount
Brent: of value and speed out of DeepSeq v4 Flash. And...
Brent: It is so cheap. It's super fast.
Chris: Yeah.
Brent: And it's like with a little bit of structure around it, you know,
Brent: with your own skills and stuff.
Brent: Super, super powerful. So if you don't want to spend a ton, that is a huge recommendation for me.
Brent: I don't think it would maybe beat any of the other ones. But if you're looking
Brent: for something really simple.
Chris: Get a good harness, get some good skills and go deep seek. See how it goes. I think it's a good tip.
Wes: Well our buddy adversary 17 comes in with 56 000 and 17 sets.
Chris: Oh thank you so.
Wes: Reverse linux process is restoring a backup you should go in depth about backups.
Chris: Backups sorry i fell i fell asleep but i that isn't a horrible idea that is i think.
Wes: Adversaries You mentioned it earlier in the show.
Chris: This is a very on-topic boost because you may have noticed things are a little
Chris: different this episode.
Brent: I think actually the reverse Linux here would be to do a recovery from your
Brent: backups because most of us don't really do that part, and that's the most important part, isn't it?
Chris: Sure, sure, sure.
Wes: Right, and it's because it's kind of going backwards in time when you do that.
Brent: Mm-hmm.
Wes: Yeah. Okay, well, we got a bunch
Wes: more from adversaries, including adversaries has gone to plaid. Yeah.
Wes: And it's a time travel booth, which makes sense given the sound effects.
Wes: A little bit behind, but I just converted my desktop PC to Nix OS.
Chris: Oh, all right.
Wes: I used Nix to build a custom installer ISO so that I could verify everything
Wes: was hunky-dory before doing the needful and having Disco wipe the Pop!
Wes: OS install. Now that's the way to do it.
Wes: In fact, just to celebrate, I mean,
Wes: the Nix boost really fits because it's boosty, boosty, boosty, boost.
Chris: Oh, hold on. That's a special request. You don't just boast those out everywhere.
Chris: Actually, but for the occasion.
Chris: There you go.
Wes: Adversaries choose to run the Zen kernel. Performance, baby. So we got a Zen friend.
Chris: Yes.
Wes: And on top of that, thank you for covering all the kernel stuff.
Wes: I know it's a lot of work, but I love hearing about it.
Wes: That AMD regression in 7.2 would affect me since that's what my desktop runs,
Wes: so I'll keep an ear open for the fix.
Chris: I assume also you're very concerned about AppleTalk getting removed.
Wes: Well, naturally.
Brent: We have a sticker for that. Badge?
Chris: Yeah.
Brent: Yeah, we call it a badge.
Chris: Yeah, a sticker.
Wes: And the final adversary message here, the backwards show idea sounds so fun.
Wes: All you got to do is read everything backwards and then have Drew reverse the track.
Chris: You know, this backwards show, we're never going to do that.
Chris: That's too cliche. We would never do that.
Chris: All right.
Brent: What are we doing?
Chris: Thank you, adversaries. Nice to hear from you.
Brent: We have booze here from Greg the Lawyer, 53,403 Satoshis.
Chris: All right.
Brent: Uh, Greg's in the chat, 52 years old, and says, this is a zip code boost.
Chris: Hey, it's been a minute.
Wes: Whoa!
Chris: Did you bring the, uh...
Wes: You know I did.
Chris: Oh, good. Here we go. Nice. Why do you... We get you the tablet.
Chris: Why does it make paper sounds?
Brent: Uh, Wes, you're holding the mirror on.
Wes: I hacked those in there. I had to jailbreak it. Yeah.
Brent: Wes, are you holding the mirror backwards?
Wes: There's still gravy on here from the Canada trip.
Chris: Where is he?
Wes: Uh, well, this will explain it.
Chris: Okay. All right.
Wes: Zip code 53403. Let me double check one more time.
Chris: Yep, 53403.
Wes: I got to check the index. Uh-huh. That is located. Is this right? I got to be sure.
Chris: Oh, my God, Wes.
Wes: Racine, Wisconsin.
Chris: Hey, hello, Wisconsin. Thanks, Greg.
Wes: I mean, on the map here, I see a Mount Pleasant nearby, so it's got to be nice.
Chris: Oh. Let us know if we got it right. Good to hear from you.
Wes: And thanks for helping test out the old ZapRite stuff.
Chris: Yes.
Wes: Just letting us know when it was not working.
Chris: Dajag comes in with 4,747 sats.
Chris: You guys, you blew my mind with Noster. I played around with it back when you
Chris: first started talking about it, but I don't think I'd ever really understood what it actually was.
Chris: I just thought it was ActivityPub with keys. But I think I was missing the point.
Chris: I don't know if I'm going to use Buzz long-term, but I am setting it up now.
Chris: And if nothing else, this was an eye-opener to the catalyst of connecting all
Chris: the dots. Thank you. Well, thank you, Dajag.
Brent: Awesome. That's amazing.
Wes: I think it also kind of did a little bit of that for us in a way, too.
Chris: I agree. It was like, oh, yeah, it's kind of what we were thinking. Here we go. Yeah.
Brent: Daja, I would love to hear if you stick with Buzz. Let us know how it goes.
Wes: Marcel Bussin, 17,000 and 14 cents.
Wes: You made the torrent analogy again, and I have to push back.
Wes: I see a huge difference between individuals stealing from companies for entertainment
Wes: and companies stealing from individuals at scale for profit.
Wes: It also especially stings because Dario is promising to replace developers with
Wes: a model trained on open source developer contributions.
Wes: Nobody sets up the R stack to train a model to replace VFX artists.
Wes: Now, I'm not arguing that torrenting is ethical, and I don't let the way the
Wes: model was trained prevent me from using it. The cat is out of the bag.
Wes: The people who trained it are benefiting. Why shouldn't I?
Chris: Okay, so I think we're just sort of both talking past each other.
Chris: What I've talked about before is, you're right, they are not comparable.
Chris: The tech companies stealing is worse.
Chris: However, the moral alignment remains the same. If you've stolen content yourself,
Chris: you really don't have the moral authority to condemn another.
Chris: But additionally, torrenting the TV shows and the movies does undercut the ability
Chris: for the industry to produce future movies and TV shows.
Chris: So there is a similar impact at the end of the day. So I still think it stands,
Chris: that if you have a raw stack or you've torrented TV shows before,
Chris: you don't really, really have a lot of moral authority to stand on and be concerned
Chris: that Anthropic is scanning books or something like that.
Chris: You cannot like it and you can think what they're doing is worse and I would agree with you.
Chris: But at the same time, you know, it's a nuanced issue. So, Everett to each their own.
Wes: I would also, I think, extend the frame to be like, that's one particular sort
Wes: of test case, which can be a useful model to have.
Wes: But the larger issue is sort of like around what do we think about information
Wes: and the commons and copyright protections and that kind of thing.
Chris: Yes, yes, yes.
Wes: Probably that's where to fight to have a consistent framework that we kind of
Wes: agree on because the current rules we have, I don't think really anyone thinks are optimal.
Chris: Yeah like i'd like to see a revolt that steals the rights of star trek away
Chris: from paramount let's let's turn it to the people that's right that's right.
Brent: Well gene bean boosts in three rows of ducks,
Brent: Here's a quick note for others in the community with kids in Scouts.
Brent: I just got back from Cub Scout Overnight Camp at Cherokee Scout Reservations
Brent: in Yanceyville, North Carolina.
Brent: It was really good and well worth the seven plus hour drive.
Brent: I'd highly recommend others check it out. CSR.camp.
Wes: That is a recommendation indeed.
Chris: Yeah, listen to podcasts while you do that seven hour drive. It's good for the kids.
Brent: About Linux Unplugged 677. In addition to the BBS you talked about in this episode,
Brent: check out TC Squared BBS.
Brent: It has some code here. It links to it.
Wes: Yeah, we got a repo, GPL3, a BBS server for MeshTastic for posting bulletins,
Wes: sending mail to users, and a channel directory.
Chris: Could somebody give us a gift of setting this up so we could play with it?
Brent: Careful what you wish for there.
Chris: Chris. No, I mean, we work on a lot of the shows. We never really ask for that.
Chris: But it would be really great if somebody wanted to set this up and then just
Chris: kind of show it to us and treat us. That'd be fun.
Wes: You can have a clanker.
Brent: Do it.
Wes: That's fine.
Brent: Well, our dear Gene has a last question here for us.
Brent: Do you all have any suggestions for making the information in many years of
Brent: Slack conversations available to an agent?
Chris: Oh, man. It's such adding agents to Slack is why buzz is a thing.
Wes: Yeah, really, really.
Chris: Because that's what you got to do. You got to add it to Slack.
Chris: You got to do all the API crap, and then you can add it to every single freaking room.
Chris: Maybe if you pay for Slack, they let you export in a format you can ingest.
Wes: That's what I was going to say.
Chris: I would know.
Wes: That would be your other action.
Wes: Escape it now, and then you'd search on the future things.
Chris: Gene, if you could tell us, let us know.
Wes: If you find out, we're hearing.
Chris: Yeah, please do. Thank you, Gene. Magnolia Mayhem comes in with 2,000 sats.
Chris: Forgot to boost. So he's coming in hot with a boost. Thank you very much,
Chris: Mayhem. Nice to hear from you.
Wes: Time for our member boost.
Chris: Let's do it, boys.
Wes: We got some anonymous member boosters coming in.
Chris: That's always interesting.
Brent: I thought this was from anonymous.
Chris: Maybe we just have a member that goes by anonymous.
Wes: That could be.
Chris: Yeah.
Wes: We can't really tell. Great coverage as always. That's one. And then a second anonymous boost.
Chris: Yes.
Wes: In the same vein as your OBD2 AI-assisted diagnostics, I've connected my oscilloscope
Wes: to my agent via its ethernet interface and standard control protocol SCPI,
Wes: now I can have my agent watch waveforms and decode serial connections you guys
Wes: got my wheels turning thank you and then we got a scope ID an SDS 1104X0-E,
Wes: I would love to have an oscilloscope this is great,
Wes: maybe we help with the wheel turning if so, thank you So now you're getting
Wes: our wheels turning. That's how this works.
Chris: I'll tell you what I would like to do. And this is, I'd have to have money to
Chris: burn and time to burn. But maybe in a few years, I want to do a totally agent-managed fish tank.
Wes: And then we live stream it, right?
Chris: Managing the levels of pH, everything in there. The temperatures,
Chris: the water flow, the filtration, the feed, everything. Fully managed. Automated fish tank.
Wes: It books people online to come clean it?
Chris: Right. I think a lot of it would probably be home assistant driven.
Chris: And like all the sensors and all the data and all of the actuations would probably
Chris: be home assistant driven, managed by an agent or something like that.
Chris: I think that could be a thing.
Brent: We have a members boost here from Anton.
Chris: Hello, Anton.
Brent: Sorry for the late feedback on Buzz. It was very interesting to me since I'm
Brent: trying to find a way to create and use AI assistants at work and share them with my team.
Brent: I sent a message a few weeks ago about using Hermes at work.
Brent: Do you know if Buzz can be a full replacement for Hermes?
Chris: Yeah, I mean, it's not feature complete, right? But it is essentially an agent
Chris: orchestration platform, or you could connect a Hermes agent.
Wes: Yeah, true. That might be the most easy way to go. I think the main thing was
Wes: that we hadn't quite gone super far into getting a bunch of MCPs configured
Wes: and that kind of stuff, and that'll be the thing probably if you're trying to
Wes: do it at an organization that'll really matter.
Chris: I do think, Anton, though, that is the scenario for it, because people,
Chris: especially that are new to agents,
Chris: why not start with something like Buzz, And then if you need something more
Chris: advanced from a Hermes system, you just bring it in later.
Wes: Yeah, because really it's like where it's lacking is sort of on the harness
Wes: side. But what it has from the start is the identity layer from Noster and being
Wes: built with agents and humans co in mind.
Chris: And the group chat stuff. Right. Yeah.
Chris: My turn. Jimmy comes in with a free member boost. Can we ask the video game
Chris: correspondent why GOG doesn't get more love?
Wes: We sure can.
Chris: I think that'd be you, PJ. DRM free means you own it forever,
Chris: and they've got a preservation program.
Chris: I like Steam, but there's some real overhead there. Just yesterday,
Chris: I wanted to add a game to my wish list, but couldn't be done without 486 megabyte
Chris: download. Really, just to your wish list?
Brent: That seems small.
Chris: PJ, why don't you think GOG gets more love in the Linux community?
Chris: is it just steam sucks all the oxygen out of the room.
Mumble: I would say because of convenience and because of all the hard work that valve
Mumble: is doing to bring gaming to linux in such massive force with hardware software etc,
Mumble: gog has been around forever i love drm free games i've got a bunch of them but
Mumble: the convenience of steam on all of our systems can't beat it.
Chris: Yeah yeah yeah i think i think there's a big part of it and then there's branding
Chris: and then also it's there's got to be a factor of people coming from windows
Chris: true very steam focused not that gog doesn't run great on windows but yeah maybe
Chris: we should give it more love jimmy thank you for that.
Mumble: It's not talked a ton about either but valve has given uh,
Mumble: a lot of information to people or how do i put this they've come out and said
Mumble: you know we understand we're a software platform
Mumble: but we're going to ensure these games work even after we're gone um i actually
Mumble: have faith that they're going to do that so if Valve ever shuts down Steam for
Mumble: whatever reason, I do believe they're going to make your games still accessible
Mumble: and playable somehow, someway. They've come out and said this stuff before.
Chris: All right. Thank you, Game Correspondent PJ. You want to take a...
Wes: Digital Jote boost in with what I'm going to say is a controversial boost.
Chris: Oh, here we go. Hot boost.
Wes: I don't understand the issue with Brent's tabs.
Chris: What's that?
Wes: Brent's tabs.
Chris: I think the song explains the problem.
Brent: Yeah.
Wes: Well, Digital here says every time I start Firefox, I open my previous session.
Wes: It's currently 712 tabs over 18 windows.
Wes: I'll occasionally trim it down, but this is pretty normal.
Chris: My goodness.
Wes: Is that more or less than you, Brent? Do we have a new king?
Chris: And, like, what is the oldest tab there? A year old?
Wes: That's a fascinating question.
Chris: At what point is it, like, stuff like when you move and you just leave it in
Chris: a box? and you never open it. And then you come back to that box five years
Chris: later and you're like, oh, I can probably just get rid of this.
Wes: But it's a whole window.
Chris: 712 tabs over 18 windows. Does that sound on par, Brent, or kind of a little
Chris: bit beyond what you're doing?
Brent: I would say it depends what you're measuring. 18 windows, not unusual in any way.
Brent: 712 tabs has only happened maybe a couple times.
Wes: Is that because low or high?
Brent: Wild. Oh, very high.
Chris: I feel like we need to stage an intervention. To me, it's just absurd.
Wes: So maybe it's, is it the windows the real problem here? We've been so focused
Wes: on the tab thing that's the windows.
Chris: No, it's like when you discover that a loved one is a massive hoarder and you
Chris: go in there and you're like, oh, this room's pretty bad, but it's probably just
Chris: this one room. And then you go in the next room's like that and the next room's
Chris: like that. That's like this is, but it's a digital version.
Brent: I think I can answer the question, at least. We haven't quite answered the question yet.
Chris: Oh, okay.
Wes: Was there a question?
Chris: Yeah, I didn't know there was a question.
Brent: Oh, wait. No, there's just a bunch of statements saying I'm doing it wrong, but yes.
Chris: No, I think they agree with you. No, I think they're on your page.
Brent: Oh, oh, oh. I thought they meant what's Brent's issue with the tabs, but they're...
Wes: No, they're normalizing your behavior.
Brent: Oh, Jode, I like you.
Chris: This is why we have a problem.
Brent: This is disturbing. No, no, no. You guys are doing it wrong.
Brent: mostly my issue is window management and slow.
Chris: Boot up times i'll take uh greg the lawyer uh free member boost because greg
Chris: was also our baller boost tesla model y update i'm still rocking the factory
Chris: lts software release oh yeah right,
Chris: there's when you get the car there's like a delay they don't want to like change
Chris: anything i see yeah i'm already blown away by fsd and i'm anxiously awaiting
Chris: my first official rolling release update
Chris: and other nudes and other nudes i have always bounced off terminal multiplexers
Chris: but i'm really enjoying herder h-e-r-d-r and it's agent awareness i'll have to look that up.
Wes: Yeah that's what i've been looking at as well it's kind of nice the runtime
Wes: your coding agents live on apache 2.0 license written mostly in rust.
Chris: She's i like the ui,
Chris: Yeah, love FSD. It's going to be a shocker once people try it out.
Chris: It's the number one feature of the car. Thanks, Greg. Congratulations.
Wes: Thanks for the report and for the pick.
Brent: SensorSmile has a member's boost here. I couldn't wait, so I just spent several
Brent: hours during vacation last week learning Hermes.
Brent: Ended up pushing me to tune a Llama CPP quite a bit, as well as spinning up
Brent: a second Llama 3B for compressing context window. So I've been working on a
Brent: side project I never thought I would get to.
Brent: Thank you for convincing me to do this.
Chris: Dude, you're doing it great, too. I think that's a pretty good strat,
Chris: having a separate agent just monitoring your context and doing compression for
Chris: you and probably being really smart about it.
Chris: Paul comes in about copyright. For books, audiobooks, and music from mostly
Chris: small local indie brands, I handle it this way.
Chris: Can I buy it in a way I fully own it, physical media, DRM-free?
Chris: Then I pay and vote with my wallet. Otherwise, I don't.
Chris: With games, I prefer DRM-free, but often buy on Steam. as well.
Chris: Yeah, it does get tricky when living in a small space to have that kind of stuff,
Chris: but I have quite a bit of books just sort of scattered around the RV,
Chris: and then I may still end up grabbing the audio version, too, or something.
Chris: But I've been an Audible customer since forever.
Chris: I probably put one of their kids through college by now.
Wes: I kind of wish that, you know, in the RV you just had a big,
Wes: dedicated rack of cassettes. Took
Wes: up a huge amount of space in the limited area, but you insisted on it.
Chris: Yeah.
Wes: Dragging it around the country.
Chris: Sorry, kids. No road trips anymore. We got to keep dad's tapes.
Brent: Hey, what did we find? We found a really nice physical media and all my stuff
Brent: when we were moving me out.
Chris: Oh, yeah. You did have a good collection. Yeah, you did.
Brent: What was that? It was a seven, like a video disc? No, that big, huge.
Chris: Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Chris: The laser disc.
Brent: Jackets.
Wes: Bags, and laser discs.
Brent: That's what Brent collects If anyone wants to pay me a lot of money for a video disc Please reach out.
Chris: You want to take our last one there Wes?
Wes: So hey M.G Remember Bootsin If other professions like doctors,
Wes: electricians, or civil engineers screw up They face scrutiny,
Wes: sanction, and possibly a ban
Wes: from their profession But if the computer people pull a crowd strike U.S.
Wes: East 1 or Cold Guard They say oops And it's largely forgotten Is licensure overdue?
Wes: The duct tape is coming apart Mmm.
Chris: Hot take, hot take. I don't know. It's tough to say, right? Because you never
Chris: really know, especially in free software, how someone's going to use it and
Chris: what conditions it might be under and then what edge cases might get exposed.
Chris: Like, it's tricky pretty, pretty quick.
Chris: But I've always wondered if one day we won't be at some like,
Chris: this has been, this software was written by a certified human,
Chris: you know, something like that.
Wes: And I mean, I suppose you've seen more with things that do get like security
Wes: audits or other, you know, I wonder how much sort of curation or...
Wes: post hoc verification will become, you know, a necessary prerequisite.
Chris: Right, right. There'll probably be entire specialties around it.
Chris: All right, that's all the boosts above the 2,000-sat cutoff and our member boosts.
Chris: Thank you, everybody. Also, you sat streamers out there, 16 of you stream sats,
Chris: and collectively stacked 28,069 satoshis.
Chris: Thank you very much. When you combine that with our fiat boosts and our regular
Chris: boosts, I think it was all regular sats actually this week, we stacked a grand
Chris: total of 454,606 Satoshis.
Chris: Thank you, everybody. This show really does live and die on our memberships
Chris: and our value for value. If you hear dynamic ads, that means we're scraping
Chris: by and we need your support.
Chris: And then we have quite the hole to dig ourselves out of. In the meantime,
Chris: you can boost at boost.jupiterbroadcasting.com. We always love your participation
Chris: because this is, for us, the most fun segment of the show. And we really have
Chris: no idea what you're going to bring up.
Chris: And, of course, it's a great way to get a message in, too, while sending a little
Chris: value our way. boost.jupiterbroadcasting.com.
Brent: Well, you boys helped me move out of my place recently, and I've been jumping
Brent: around all over the place and thinking, how many computers do I own?
Brent: So some decommissioning has happened on my side, or at least thinking about it.
Brent: But the studio has far more systems than I even can count over there.
Brent: And so we've been thinking about changing things up a little bit.
Chris: It has become time to decommission an old box. A beloved box.
Chris: A box that's still technically working just fine.
Wes: It's one of those things, right? You're kind of like, well, you're not actively
Wes: making yourself a problem. You're not the thing that's preventing the show.
Wes: You're not constantly getting in our way. And yet.
Chris: And yet.
Wes: We find ourselves here.
Chris: Yeah, it's the problem is it just is an old Linux box with sort of forgotten
Chris: services that's been running for years.
Chris: I think it's, you know, it's a four and a half year old box install,
Chris: but the hardware itself is extremely old.
Chris: It's a Dell T5400 with quite the energy budget. It has a Xeon processor in it,
Chris: and it also has eight 4-gigabyte modules, so 32 gigs of ECC RAM.
Wes: How many secret Xeons you got running around in this studio?
Chris: That's right, baby. I love ECC.
Wes: I knew about this box, but I didn't know it was a Xeon.
Chris: Yeah, an E5430, so that gives you an idea of the age, at 2.66 gigahertz.
Chris: Now, if you didn't have it fully loaded up, it would approximately use 1,120 kilowatt hours a year.
Chris: But it is loaded up, so it probably uses more than that. So it's got a pretty
Chris: serious steady power drain.
Chris: The hardware is old. It produces quite a bit of heat. The BIOS is dated August 21st, 2008.
Wes: Great vintage for BIOSes, yeah.
Chris: The root file system was created January 5th, 2022. So it's about four years
Chris: and seven months old. So this is the box.
Wes: Something tells me it's got a real new kernel on there probably, right?
Chris: Okay, so it's running Ubuntu 20.04.6, which is no longer supported, running Linux 5.4.
Brent: That's so ancient in our computers.
Chris: I know. This is just a bygone era. So much has changed in four years on how we manage systems.
Brent: Yes.
Chris: So I think the job is to figure out what's using this that we don't know about
Chris: or anything weird about this system that maybe we've forgotten.
Wes: Because it's probably a lot.
Chris: Yeah. and then see if we can safely decommission it. Now, the role that this
Chris: machine plays, and Wes, I don't know, can you SSH into it?
Chris: Are you able to SSH? You'd have to be on my tail net.
Wes: Yeah, let's take a peek here.
Chris: Otherwise, I can SSH in.
Brent: I have quite a fond connection to this box, I will say.
Chris: Uh-huh. I was wondering if you remember.
Brent: Uh-huh. I didn't know it existed until this very moment, and somehow it just
Brent: showed up ready for the job. But this was, what, five years ago,
Brent: something like that, it feels like. Chris and I sat down.
Chris: Four years, seven months.
Brent: Four to seven months ago. Chris and I sat down one winter and came up with some crazy ideas.
Brent: And the boosts came out of this very moment where we just loaded a box.
Brent: This was a temporary box. We were just doing a little bit of testing and see how things would go.
Brent: And here we are many years later. And this box has been critical for the show
Brent: in many ways. I think the, don't the boosts i don't know somehow this the boost
Brent: read off this thing it's been.
Chris: Important that's one of the things we got to look into is if this is in the
Chris: boost scraper pipeline we got to look that up we got to figure that out because
Chris: it may be powering some of the back end infrastructure stuff there.
Brent: So for me it was like a new era when this box got turned on.
Chris: Oh we learned so much that yeah.
Brent: Yeah we did.
Chris: You're right though i forgot this was temporary this was going to be a temporary Well.
Brent: What is temporary, you know?
Chris: All right. So that's the system. It's time to shut her down.
Chris: I'm expecting, when we log in, we're going to see a handful of containers. I think...
Brent: Oh.
Chris: Oh, yeah?
Brent: I recall. Oh, there's memories around this thing.
Chris: We're going to see plenty of free space. I don't think that's going to be an issue.
Chris: But I bet, you know... In fact, I bet it even has enough RAM.
Chris: The problem with this thing is that the disks are slow, slow disks.
Chris: All right, so, Wes, what is the...
Chris: It sounds like you've already found something fun. What are you spelunking into over there?
Wes: Would you like to guess how many containers we are running?
Chris: Well, okay, I could, yeah, I could.
Brent: You take a guess, and then I'll, you know, stay and listen for a while.
Chris: So you got, let's see.
Wes: Or,
Wes: okay, let's hand one done.
Chris: Okay, so I'm going to say, this thing should be able to do everything in seven or eight containers.
Brent: No.
Chris: Everything you need should be done in, okay, what do you think, Brent?
Brent: Well, I have memories around you troubleshooting containers specifically on this box.
Brent: And it was, I've never seen you more angry at a computer.
Chris: Well, because the issue here is it's like this, they bring this node management
Chris: software called Umbral brings their own like Docker orchestration layer.
Brent: Seems like a great idea.
Chris: Their bash scripts. And then they have a monitoring script called Karen.
Chris: And I don't know if they call it this anymore, but it's still on my system called Karen.
Chris: And then Karen starts screaming about issues because she's like a system monitor.
Chris: And so you have their Docker manager scripts, their start and stop scripts,
Chris: and their Karen scripts. And that's how they managed everything.
Chris: And you had to use that to interact with it.
Chris: And that's how they did like boot dependency resolution and all kinds of stuff.
Chris: So what do you think? What do you think the number is, Brent? Give us a number.
Brent: Well, I recall it being surprisingly multiplicity. So I'm going to say...
Chris: 18. All right. All right. It should be doable in seven containers.
Chris: He says 18. What do we got, West Payne? What is our counter?
Wes: 59.
Chris: What is it doing? That's 50 more containers than it needs. What is it doing? What is happening?
Chris: Can you give me an overview of what some of that is?
Brent: Wow.
Wes: So a lot of it is like sidecar tour.
Chris: Tour for everything. Everything has its own Tor sidecar. Oh, my.
Wes: So there's AppProxy. There's L&D, of course. A bunch more Tor. Lightning Terminal.
Chris: Tor is just not the way to self-host stuff.
Wes: Electrum Wallet. Oh, my God. Elements Web.
Chris: Sure, got to have that.
Wes: Something we'll just call, oh, Mempool's front end.
Chris: Yeah, got to have Mempool.
Wes: You got to have a Mempool widget server.
Chris: Uh-huh. You got to have a widget server.
Wes: Restarting 54 seconds ago.
Chris: Oh, yeah, that one's not good.
Wes: Mempool backend. Yeah, got to be. I2PD.
Chris: All right, all right.
Brent: I get it. I get it.
Chris: It's a lot of stuff. God. Just the Tor containers alone are going to have that.
Wes: Something from CryptoSharks131.
Chris: What?
Chris: That wouldn't surprise me at all. Oh, wow. Okay.
Wes: You were right, though, in terms of,
Wes: usage of things on here. And Prox shows for free dash H here.
Wes: We got 20 gigs available, 31 total, 10 use. So we're sitting pretty nice there.
Wes: and uh on disk we got 450 uh 460 gigs on the root drive okay but only 34 use
Wes: so there's that's only at eight percent use of tons of space on root and then,
Wes: on slash serve where all the app data lives that's a 7.3 t setup,
Wes: uh and only 1.1 t's used so that's a 15 percent fall so there's tons of.
Chris: Wait a minute wait a minute wait a minute.
Brent: You've been looking for disk.
Chris: Yeah.
Chris: I want to turn this thing off because it's loud and hot and uses a lot of power,
Chris: but I don't also just want to throw away 7 terabytes almost of disk.
Chris: It's ButterFS, too, if I recall. So, you know, there's that.
Chris: There's another one of our mini ButterFS.
Wes: Yes, that's right.
Wes: SDB1 is a ButterFS array.
Brent: So cancel the segment. We're going to keep it on. Is that what we're doing?
Chris: Wait a minute. Hold on. It's only one disk?
Wes: It looks like. I just see an SDB, SDB1, yeah.
Brent: Yeah, we found this disk in one of your drawers in the studio.
Chris: Yeah, that's why this is only going to be, one of the reasons it's only going to be temporary.
Brent: Right, we meant to...
Chris: So we did a single disk setup for something that's kind of central to the...
Brent: Sorry, guys.
Chris: And then forgot about that. That honestly is a little bit of a surprise to me.
Chris: I don't normally, for these kinds of systems, just do a single disk setup.
Brent: I'm pretty sure we had a to-do list somewhere.
Chris: Probably.
Brent: Yeah.
Chris: Probably. I mean, it feels like, you know, looking at this box,
Chris: it's like ancient Linux archaeology here.
Chris: I mean, look at this. 180 pending security updates.
Chris: Seven pending security updates that are covered by ESM apps.
Chris: And by the way, these are just what's in the extended support.
Chris: So not even really everything that's in the repo. These are just what they're
Chris: willing to patch through extended support. 180 pending for infra.
Chris: Seven pending from apps. and then
Chris: six ordinary packages from the repo need upgraded. Docker is old as crap.
Chris: I mean, like I said earlier, it's on a kernel 5.4.
Wes: For some reason, there's a folder in your home dir called Cardano.
Chris: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I thought Cardano was an interesting product.
Chris: Like, well, what's the date on that?
Wes: Good question.
Chris: A while ago. And I looked at that and I'm like, that alone was like, oh my God, what a mess.
Wes: January 2022?
Chris: Yeah, it was a real mess. It's not still running, right?
Wes: I didn't see anything running. I was just taking a peek in the home.
Chris: That would be funny if that was running all these years Oh my god It's a mystery box to me really.
Wes: Been up for 180 days. That's not bad. 2.72 load average.
Chris: Yeah, yeah. It's really just...
Wes: Yeah, 2008 era Xeon.
Chris: It's disk IO bound, right? It's about 12% of, like, the system pressure is just
Chris: disk IO. Is really, like, what I saw when I went in there.
Wes: Oh. ButterFS reports device missing. Looks like a multi-device ButterFS volume
Wes: that may be missing a member disk.
Chris: Nothing.
Brent: Wait, did we put two disks in here and you stole one out of it?
Chris: I don't know, man. I can't remember. Honestly, this is one of the things that's
Chris: changed that really strikes me is today the system would be designed in such
Chris: a way that it's self-documenting.
Chris: And you would just go look at that and you would understand how it works.
Chris: But this was thrown together while we were just doing a project.
Chris: It was going to be temporary and there wasn't really any documentation.
Wes: And we were trying to even just figure out how it works. Yeah,
Wes: boosts, lightning, all of it.
Chris: This is a real problem.
Brent: I guess I have a big question here. How in the world are we going to figure
Brent: out what is using this box?
Chris: Do you think the boost scraper is using it?
Wes: Well, it must be for doing the check to see if there's any unique boost that came in on that node.
Wes: So we'll want to make sure that wherever we migrate that split to,
Wes: we are also checking in the scraper.
Chris: And we're going to need to collaboratively close the channels on it because
Chris: we're moving to a different system.
Chris: So that's something. And then I think, yeah, we'll just have to monitor the
Chris: traffic and see. It's a real problem.
Chris: But we already have the host to migrate to. We're moving to a service for it.
Chris: And so it's really just a matter of spinning down the channels,
Chris: I think, letting the fun settle, and then us kind of monitoring what uses it.
Chris: Shut down some of the services, but leave the box online for a bit. Monitor it maybe.
Chris: I think we'll probably plan for later this week.
Wes: Yeah, we could probably do a network cut or something if we want,
Wes: just to sort of take it offline and see what barks at us.
Chris: Yeah, see what breaks for a little bit.
Brent: Jeff did that to us one time, if you remember.
Chris: I do recall, and some things broke.
Brent: Yes. Yeah, he just cut the power to this box, not thinking it was important or anything.
Chris: Right? A couple times.
Brent: Oh, yeah, right, right.
Chris: You guys also remember you blew the circuit that one time.
Brent: Well, you've got to blow a circuit or two to get progress.
Chris: Yeah, but it was a tough call, Because like Wes said at the start,
Chris: there's other things that are also not working as well that could maybe be fixed sooner.
Chris: But it just feels like now is the time to start pruning older infrastructure
Chris: that you're not actively maintaining.
Wes: Right. And like a lot of the value was we didn't know what we were doing.
Wes: We needed something that could set up the pieces because we didn't even know
Wes: what all the pieces were or which ones were necessary.
Chris: Yeah.
Wes: We understand a lot of that better now, right? And so like we would never set
Wes: it up this way. We don't really want to operate it in this setup.
Chris: Right.
Wes: It actively goes against most of the things we'd prefer to have it do.
Chris: So it's nice to retire it, but it is, you're right. It was like,
Chris: it's sort of nostalgic too. And I'm really glad it held up.
Brent: It was also very early in the like boost ecosystem.
Brent: I remember for a couple of weeks there, we were changing things pretty quickly
Brent: on this box just because all of the developers were evolving things and it was a really exciting time.
Wes: Is this where we were doing a little, we were trying out some of the IPFS podcasting maybe too, right?
Chris: It's good times. It was a lot of fun and that box was very educational,
Chris: but it is time to wind her down.
Wes: Well, we live in a world where more than ever, we're close to being able to,
Wes: summon software out of the void.
Wes: And whether you should trust that software or not is a separate discussion.
Wes: But one thing I find fun about that is you can kind of, you can try out more
Wes: ideas. Because in theory, you could get some help to make it happen if the idea
Wes: made any sense. And I think that means thinking about new ideas is what we should be doing.
Wes: And I was just musing, if you could just add one feature to the kernel,
Wes: you know, That Linux kernel you're running, not that you needed other people
Wes: to run, not that you're endorsing is a good idea, but something that
Wes: you would love to see put into kernel space and taken out of user space. What would it be?
Wes: Or if you want to take something out, that could work too.
Chris: Or another way to phrase it, like if I was king of the kernel for a day,
Chris: I mean, you could just fork it, right? And add your own thing too.
Chris: You don't have to be king of the kernel. It's a fun idea.
Chris: I'll tell you what I would do. I know right away exactly what I would do.
Brent: Really?
Chris: I could. Oh, yeah. Oh, it's so obvious. First of all, I'd rip out Samsung's
Chris: SMB server that I've never liked, and I would use that hole to put in something
Chris: way more useful. Ready for this, boys?
Chris: Kernel SSH. I call it K-SSHD. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you.
Chris: And you might think this is crazy, and we get close. There are projects like
Chris: Drakkut SSHD and others that get very early, so like even before the disk is decrypted.
Chris: but not at the kernel level. However, this is actually quite possible.
Chris: In fact, there's a project out there called Wolf SSH, Wolf SSH,
Chris: which is probably the most realistic existing implementation you could already
Chris: use and port it into a Linux kernel module.
Chris: It's designed to be an embeddable SSH v2 library rather than a Unix daemon.
Wes: Oh.
Chris: Works without file system support and is designed for embedded configurations
Chris: where there's no file system or they have to use their own virtual custom IO
Chris: and the cryptographic library WolfCrypt already in the Linux kernel.
Chris: It's already in the Linux kernel. And so what Samsung did for KSMBD,
Chris: and I think this is what I would do, is they divided SMBD into two pieces.
Chris: The kernel stuff has the protocol, the crypto signing, session management,
Chris: open read write handling, locking of files, VFS operations. That lives in KSMBD
Chris: in your Linux kernel right now.
Chris: And then in the user space, they manage the user accounts, the Samba config,
Chris: your share info, RPC protocol, policy type operations is in user space.
Chris: And KSMBD creates a real TCP server entirely inside the kernel.
Chris: It maintains generic netlink interface between the kernel and the KSMBD mounts.
Chris: And it manages the protocol between the kernel and user space,
Chris: which includes things like login response and RPC requests and crypto authentication
Chris: and signing. All the things you need for SSH.
Chris: So you could take KSSHD, put it in this space, break it up like they broke up
Chris: Samba, where the SSH framing, the key stuff,
Chris: all the channels, the host keys, pubkey verifies, handled by the kernel daemon,
Chris: which then drops to user space for user lookup, authorized key, PAM.
Chris: PTY creation, all that policies, environment, your user stuff is in the user space. And...
Chris: It would be dramatically smaller than KSMBD. I had the clanker do a little mock-up comparison.
Brent: When's version one?
Chris: So my idea would make the kernel leaner and probably be more useful for all of us.
Chris: And the Benny would be SSH remains available when your user space is totally
Chris: crapped out, and it is even theoretically possible you could SSH in and monitor the init process.
Wes: So you're basically tired of forgetting to turn SSH on? You're just like,
Wes: if I build it in at the kernel level, then it's always on.
Chris: Well, I just got thinking, like, think about for, like, provisioning at scale
Chris: or even, like, IoT devices, some sort of, like, LAN-based SSH.
Chris: I just think it could be really useful. Like, the little tiny microserver you
Chris: could deploy that has a little tiny secure SSH by default.
Wes: Or you could get Disco to sort of get into the kernel right there and then take
Wes: things over and make sure it's a Nix machine.
Chris: That's what I'm saying.
Wes: Every time it boots.
Chris: That's obviously it. That's obviously it.
Brent: You know, this would have helped me recently. When we were together,
Brent: I was like, remember I was pounding that server with just backups?
Chris: Yeah.
Brent: And I did something, I don't even remember what, but SSH just dropped out.
Brent: And I was remote and I was trying to do a bunch of backups like in the middle
Brent: of the night. And I couldn't do it because like I'm not going to go to the other
Brent: place where people are sleeping and like hit the on-off button or whatever.
Brent: And SSH just dropped out. But everything else was fine. Like the kernel is still up and all that.
Chris: IPMI? No, my.
Brent: No.
Chris: I got SSH built in, right?
Brent: Boom! Nailed it.
Chris: Okay, Wes, if you could add a feature to the kernel.
Wes: Yeah, I was just thinking, okay, you know, for a long time, the kernels had
Wes: the ability to, like, migrate virtual machines over the network, right?
Wes: And it can, like, handle keeping the memory in sync.
Wes: Why don't we have that for applications? I want the kernel to be able to just
Wes: take my app from one machine I got and then just poof, make it show up on the
Wes: other machine. Why do I got to be syncing everything?
Chris: This feels right. This feels really right.
Wes: You know, like App Teleport is part of the kernel. They form a little kernel
Wes: mesh. They auto-discover AppleTalk style and put that back in.
Chris: You wonder, too, could you do something like where maybe you identify an application,
Chris: you migrate all of its processes to a namespace, you isolate that namespace,
Chris: and then you can somehow group it up and move it.
Wes: Yeah.
Chris: And you start a new namespace on the system.
Wes: Some of its storage is, you know, shared network mount or something already.
Chris: Yeah, right. You'd have to do something with storage. But if you could transport
Chris: the memory content securely.
Wes: Why not? And, you know, we'll have everything on a NIC store so,
Wes: like, the binaries will be available.
Chris: Stop it. If it's not there, just run it. Oh, that's good. All right.
Chris: I'm not sure which one I like more. I think I might like that one more.
Chris: I think I would use that maybe more in my day-to-day.
Wes: Well, I was going to say put, you know, like a Lisp REPL in the kernel,
Wes: but I thought this might be more useful.
Chris: Okay, Brent, if you could add something to the kernel, what do you think you'd add?
Brent: Are we saying tab management? Is that the appropriate thing?
Chris: Firefox accelerator.
Brent: Like a scheduler for my tabs.
Chris: Kernel space Firefox.
Brent: There you go. There you go. I was thinking just like a lot of the essential
Brent: tools that we seem to use on every single machine.
Brent: Things like R-Sync has been around forever. I don't know. It's as close as I
Brent: feel an application is feature complete. Like, let's just throw it in there.
Brent: Every single person should be
Brent: using it on their Linux box. I don't know if they are, but I certainly do.
Brent: So I don't know. Maybe I'm just tired of installing stuff. I just want it all in one neat little box.
Chris: You know, I got a big idea for you.
Chris: K systemd.
Wes: Whoa.
Chris: Right?
Wes: That's like KDBus to a whole new level.
Chris: Bring it all together. One giant kernel. I mean, you know that's where it's
Chris: going anyways. Let's do it.
Wes: Yeah, but we're still kind of waiting for systemd to have a good text editor, right?
Chris: Yeah, we do need that. You're right about that. We need systemd editd.
Chris: All right, Boost in. Let us know which one of our features you would vote for
Chris: if you had to back one of us and what you would add or take out of the Linux kernel yourself.
Chris: Boost.JupyterBroadcasting.
Wes: I mean, code submissions for a compilable module do get extra points.
Brent: It's true.
Chris: I like your thinking there, Wes. Boost.jubitabroadcasting.com.
Wes: That way we can put it in our kernel.
Chris: Well, I just want to mention, if you haven't joined our Matrix community,
Chris: it's still going. And if you have become disillusioned with Discord,
Chris: go to jupiterbroadcasting.com slash Matrix.
Chris: We have a couple of chat rooms going all the time in there. The JB chat,
Chris: kind of our general chat.
Chris: We have an agent operations chat, if you're into that kind of thing.
Chris: And we have also chats in there for, like, the launch, the Linux Unplugged dedicated
Chris: chat. But you can get started at jupiterbroadcasting.com slash Matrix.
Chris: And then just for your extended calendar planning, Texas Linux Fest is on our
Chris: radar. We don't have our details locked down yet, but it's October 3rd through
Chris: the 4th. Oh, this is the old website.
Wes: I believe it's November now.
Chris: Yeah, yeah.
Wes: November 6th through the 7th, 2026.
Chris: Oh, man. See, here's what happened to me is if you Google for the Texas Linux
Chris: Fest, the first result is the 2025. Come on, Googs.
Chris: What are you using all these AI GPUs for? Figure it out. 88 days,
Chris: 13 hours, 13 minutes, 40 seconds.
Wes: That's getting to be sounded soon.
Chris: That's why I wanted to mention it. We're planning to be there.
Chris: We don't know how we're going to get there, but we may ask for help,
Chris: but we'll tell you more about that.
Wes: Something fuel lines.
Chris: Maybe we start putting a plan together and we actually get our crap together,
Chris: soon. Maybe that's what I do.
Brent: We say that every time. Maybe this time.
Wes: We should be starting our home lab holidays.
Chris: Oh, right, right, right.
Brent: Right.
Wes: Speaking of stuff we are behind on already.
Chris: How do we get it so bad? How do we get it so bad? You're right about that.
Chris: All right. Maybe, can we just do an episode where we catch up on stuff?
Chris: Would that be fun for anybody? Would that be? I don't know.
Chris: But before we go any further, I want to say time-appropriate greetings to our
Chris: virtual lug. Hello, Mumble Room.
Mumble: Hey, Chris. Hey, Russ. And hello, Brent.
Chris: Hello, guys.
Brent: Hello. Thanks for sticking around.
Chris: Hope you've been enjoying the episode so far. We're just about out of here, as they say.
Brent: Just about to get started.
Chris: You know, today on the show, we're going to throw you for a loop because it
Chris: turns out we're actually going to do it in reverse. We'll tell you about decommissioning
Chris: a system, about the kernel features we'd like to add, and then we'll wrap it up.
Chris: Well, actually, we'll start it with some boosts and some picks. So there you go.
Chris: That's it. Hope you enjoyed the Reverso episode.
Chris: We'll see you next week.
Brent: I'm Brent.
Chris: We're out of here. No, we're done.