WEBVTT 00:00:11.413 --> 00:00:15.971 Hello, friends, and welcome back to your weekly Linux talk show. My name is Chris. 00:00:15.971 --> 00:00:16.861 My name is Wes. 00:00:16.861 --> 00:00:17.839 And my name is Brent. 00:00:18.350 --> 00:00:23.141 Hello, gentlemen. Well, after a family member's Windows install ate itself this 00:00:23.141 --> 00:00:26.900 week, we're donning our capes and swooping in to save the day. 00:00:27.185 --> 00:00:30.296 And naturally, we're going to overcomplicate everything. Coming up, 00:00:30.575 --> 00:00:33.448 our plan to switch Wes's brother over to Linux. 00:00:33.750 --> 00:00:35.481 And then we're going to round out the show with some great boosts, 00:00:35.481 --> 00:00:39.581 picks, and a lot more. So before we get there, let's say time-appropriate greetings 00:00:39.581 --> 00:00:41.227 to our virtual lug. Hello, mobile room. 00:00:42.121 --> 00:00:44.201 Hello. Hey. Good morning. 00:00:44.890 --> 00:00:45.679 Oh, hey there. 00:00:46.248 --> 00:00:49.801 That is a great crowd. Hello up there in the quiet listening to. 00:00:50.241 --> 00:00:53.690 And if you'd like to join our mumble room, we've got the details on our website. 00:00:54.236 --> 00:00:58.091 Low latency live Opus audio stream. It is fantastic. 00:00:58.536 --> 00:01:01.671 Also, good morning to our friends over at Define Networking. 00:01:02.048 --> 00:01:05.839 Go to define.net slash unplugged and check out Manage Nebula. 00:01:06.100 --> 00:01:09.701 The easiest way to build a fast, resilient private network on the open source 00:01:09.701 --> 00:01:11.818 Nebula platform. We love, we use. 00:01:12.630 --> 00:01:16.874 I got more Nebula networks than ever now. It's fantastic. 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I just love how powerful that is. 00:01:38.213 --> 00:01:42.834 So go get started. 100 hosts for free. no credit card required defined.net slash, 00:01:43.356 --> 00:01:48.671 unplug that is defined.net slash unplugged go redefine your vpn experience today 00:01:48.671 --> 00:01:49.968 and a big thank you to defined, 00:01:51.083 --> 00:01:54.275 for sponsoring this here podcast defined.net slash unplugged, 00:01:56.299 --> 00:01:59.429 Well, we just have a quick housekeeping, but we wanted to give a shout out to 00:01:59.429 --> 00:02:04.489 our buddy, Noah, who is about to reach 500 episodes. 00:02:05.029 --> 00:02:05.889 Impressive. 00:02:05.889 --> 00:02:11.079 The Ask Noah program going strong. And they're celebrating. 00:02:11.235 --> 00:02:13.859 And I just wanted to help spread the word. If you are in the St. 00:02:13.859 --> 00:02:20.930 Paul area in Minneapolis, on Tuesday, August 4th, 2026, they're going to have a episode 500 party. 00:02:21.394 --> 00:02:26.349 So keep an ear out or an eye out on the Ask Noah show notes for more deets when they have them. 00:02:26.349 --> 00:02:27.569 Gosh, I wish we could make it. 00:02:27.569 --> 00:02:28.409 I know. 00:02:28.900 --> 00:02:31.649 But if anyone out there can, do give a hello from us. 00:02:31.649 --> 00:02:33.719 And tell us how it went. So this is why I'm giving them a shout, 00:02:33.719 --> 00:02:35.539 because deep down I would love to go. 00:02:35.539 --> 00:02:41.569 But, you know, I looked it up. It'd be about $500 in a two-way flight or three 00:02:41.569 --> 00:02:46.829 days driving each way for 10 hours, which I'm considering. But the problem is. 00:02:47.409 --> 00:02:49.239 You probably need to organize some more around that. 00:02:49.239 --> 00:02:53.029 We're also going to be like getting back just like the week before from our trip to Brent's. 00:02:53.389 --> 00:02:57.423 Well, if you drive to my place, that's the first day done. You just keep going. 00:02:58.004 --> 00:03:01.638 I had that thought, but I have the wife and I'll have a Wes. 00:03:02.108 --> 00:03:04.509 So I got to, you know, I can't just bail on him. 00:03:05.161 --> 00:03:09.319 But I thought like I could leave from Brent's, come down in through Montana, right? 00:03:09.319 --> 00:03:12.139 And then just head on over. I really did think about it. I really would like 00:03:12.139 --> 00:03:16.729 to go because 500 episodes is a huge deal. It's very rare in podcasting. 00:03:16.729 --> 00:03:20.309 So if you can make it, go give him a shout, maybe buy him a beer. 00:03:20.309 --> 00:03:21.891 Don't let him buy you the beer. He'll try. 00:03:22.582 --> 00:03:25.329 Convince him to do, you know, some more so we can make it for the next time. 00:03:25.769 --> 00:03:29.153 There you go. Maybe we'll make it for the 600 or something like that. 00:03:31.783 --> 00:03:37.413 All right, so this is one of those situations where every now and then a window 00:03:37.413 --> 00:03:39.184 of opportunity opens up. 00:03:39.910 --> 00:03:43.013 One person's misfortune is the podcast's opportunity. 00:03:43.013 --> 00:03:46.168 That is right, yeah. And we are here to take full advantage. 00:03:46.447 --> 00:03:48.583 So tell us what happened, Wes, what happened? 00:03:48.583 --> 00:03:54.903 Yeah, okay, so my brother, Alan, he has a Linux laptop, but his primary computer 00:03:54.903 --> 00:03:57.993 is a Windows desktop. He uses it for a lot of things. Some of that's gaming. 00:03:57.993 --> 00:03:59.118 We can talk more about that. 00:03:59.853 --> 00:04:03.813 But, you know, as you do, you're watching a video with VLC, beloved media player 00:04:03.813 --> 00:04:05.283 that works just fine on Windows. 00:04:05.283 --> 00:04:06.703 Frequent use case, yeah. 00:04:06.703 --> 00:04:08.803 Yeah. Full screen. 00:04:08.803 --> 00:04:09.085 Yeah. 00:04:09.491 --> 00:04:10.089 It crashed. 00:04:10.681 --> 00:04:12.013 VLC locked up or? 00:04:12.013 --> 00:04:15.413 Yeah. And so then he hits Alt F4. 00:04:15.413 --> 00:04:15.743 Sure. 00:04:15.877 --> 00:04:17.643 You know, like VLC stops responding. 00:04:17.643 --> 00:04:18.263 Gotta get out of it. 00:04:18.263 --> 00:04:18.613 Wow. 00:04:18.613 --> 00:04:24.583 And then the entire machine froze. And so, okay, force a hard reset, 00:04:24.583 --> 00:04:26.453 get it rebooted, start looking into it. 00:04:27.313 --> 00:04:32.798 shows up login screen seems everything's okay boot seems normal but after login, 00:04:33.379 --> 00:04:38.103 a blank screen with just the mouse cursor no desktop, no start menu, 00:04:38.103 --> 00:04:42.263 no taskbar no explorer.exe does he have a terminal. 00:04:42.263 --> 00:04:42.723 Though that's all. 00:04:42.723 --> 00:04:46.333 You need so this is where it was kind of weird because like when you open up 00:04:46.333 --> 00:04:50.643 the task manager and check things out, that worked that became his main way 00:04:50.643 --> 00:04:51.853 to control the system because. 00:04:51.853 --> 00:04:52.913 You can run from the task. 00:04:52.913 --> 00:04:57.203 Manager and so he ended up doing that Wow. Resorting his launcher. 00:04:57.203 --> 00:05:00.063 Yes. It even claimed that Explorer was running. 00:05:00.928 --> 00:05:05.243 And so basically he had to go just use it as his launcher. As he said, 00:05:05.243 --> 00:05:10.181 he basically had 90% of a computer because he could play videos still. He could launch stuff. 00:05:10.396 --> 00:05:13.594 He just had to do it to the task manager and there was no other way. 00:05:13.838 --> 00:05:15.633 I think he was doing a little bit of terminal. 00:05:16.561 --> 00:05:20.160 It sounds like something happened, maybe like a GPU driver glitch or something. 00:05:20.589 --> 00:05:25.113 And Windows really, really messed up and ate itself. kind of. 00:05:25.533 --> 00:05:28.853 Yeah, and this is where you're like, okay, this seems recoverable, right? 00:05:28.853 --> 00:05:29.158 Yeah. 00:05:30.076 --> 00:05:32.852 Big props to my brother. Like, he definitely entered the, like, 00:05:32.852 --> 00:05:35.062 okay, I'll fix this. I can troubleshoot, right? 00:05:35.062 --> 00:05:35.399 Okay. 00:05:35.736 --> 00:05:38.922 And Windows kind of tore that down piece by piece. So, of course, 00:05:38.922 --> 00:05:43.372 he, like, restarted Explorer, ran some system scans, even rebooted into safe 00:05:43.372 --> 00:05:45.842 mode. That did show the desktop. 00:05:45.842 --> 00:05:46.481 Okay. Oh. 00:05:46.608 --> 00:05:50.622 So, like, the GPU was kind of working. He did get some advice to, 00:05:50.622 --> 00:05:52.802 like, maybe uninstall and reinstall the graphics driver. 00:05:52.802 --> 00:05:54.712 I was wondering, because it's starting to sound more and more like graphics. 00:05:54.712 --> 00:05:57.692 So, he did that. Even tried creating a new admin account. 00:05:57.692 --> 00:06:00.112 That was another thing of, like, go make yourself a separate account because 00:06:00.112 --> 00:06:04.542 it could be like a user profile sort of thing totally yeah well trying to make 00:06:04.542 --> 00:06:08.502 the new admin account just led to a permanent getting ready screen no didn't 00:06:08.502 --> 00:06:09.962 solve anything didn't finish, 00:06:10.622 --> 00:06:13.682 uh so then that was just sort of another broken profile so something's going. 00:06:13.682 --> 00:06:14.697 On with user creation. 00:06:15.282 --> 00:06:19.142 Yeah even in safe mode yes even in safe mode so, 00:06:19.702 --> 00:06:22.822 at that point we kept trying a few other things like we you know i had him go, 00:06:23.322 --> 00:06:27.752 get like a terminal in the PE support environment and we did like an SFC scan 00:06:27.752 --> 00:06:30.622 and check the disk and you know did a few of the things that we could find, 00:06:31.262 --> 00:06:34.972 any guide or you know ask the LM sort of like what are the best strategies here 00:06:34.972 --> 00:06:36.532 I'm guessing at this point. 00:06:36.532 --> 00:06:40.192 You're helping remotely is this where you're okay that's. 00:06:40.192 --> 00:06:41.602 A special kind of challenge. 00:06:41.602 --> 00:06:44.582 Too especially as not a daily Windows driver. 00:06:44.761 --> 00:06:47.162 No mostly only whenever I need 00:06:47.162 --> 00:06:50.192 it very rarely for my own task when we do something on the show honestly. 00:06:50.192 --> 00:06:53.132 Did you Windows MCP is that what happened here there you. 00:06:53.132 --> 00:06:56.362 Go actually I was going to say that could be one thing that if we were going 00:06:56.362 --> 00:07:00.212 to really have to get into it but uh that was going to have to be set up from 00:07:00.212 --> 00:07:02.512 the sort of weirdly compromised environment. 00:07:02.512 --> 00:07:06.782 Yeah hilariously though the solution there right you set up windows mcp and 00:07:06.782 --> 00:07:09.652 then give him a telegram chat and he just launches all of his programs from. 00:07:09.652 --> 00:07:14.562 Telegram right it might still be the best way to use windows so yeah that's 00:07:14.562 --> 00:07:19.415 true so like we kept trying things nothing nothing really solving it um and, 00:07:20.343 --> 00:07:23.968 figured okay well these modern windows systems they have a reset option yeah 00:07:23.968 --> 00:07:26.588 right like it won't wipe your data but you do have to reinstall programs kind 00:07:26.588 --> 00:07:29.438 of rolls windows back to a fresher windows install that's. 00:07:29.438 --> 00:07:30.108 The move i think. 00:07:30.108 --> 00:07:35.808 Yeah and so being safe and all that kind of like got things ready uh he had 00:07:35.808 --> 00:07:39.108 a usb drive and did some backups onto that some of the critical stuff just to 00:07:39.108 --> 00:07:44.329 make sure like if something went wrong nothing was going to be lost right wise go try to do a reset, 00:07:45.680 --> 00:07:47.468 unable to download cloud install. 00:07:48.275 --> 00:07:50.168 What network problem. 00:07:51.028 --> 00:07:54.568 Nope network was working great because he was actually he transferred some files over the network. 00:07:54.568 --> 00:07:55.958 Oh right okay wow. 00:07:55.958 --> 00:08:00.210 Actually he had to because of course he goes to get a new usb drive right and, 00:08:00.669 --> 00:08:02.811 as it as it comes it's installed with fat 32. 00:08:03.988 --> 00:08:04.418 Brand new usb. 00:08:04.418 --> 00:08:06.318 Drive or maybe windows formatted it that way. 00:08:06.318 --> 00:08:07.248 In this year. 00:08:08.188 --> 00:08:11.798 It was a new drive oh wow yeah so of course then he had some video files to 00:08:11.798 --> 00:08:14.168 back up which were bigger than four gigabytes oh no so it's being the whole 00:08:14.168 --> 00:08:17.018 thing that's so we knew that it was working because he had to use the network 00:08:17.018 --> 00:08:17.968 to transfer those files yeah. 00:08:18.388 --> 00:08:20.678 Wow i bet it's for mac compatibility or something. 00:08:20.678 --> 00:08:24.248 Yeah right i mean what compatibility is kind of weird huh geez. 00:08:24.248 --> 00:08:27.348 So he's like okay so he's having to figure out how to transfer files over the 00:08:27.348 --> 00:08:30.508 network without actually having the windows desktop so he's having to launch 00:08:30.508 --> 00:08:32.138 these individual elements through task. 00:08:32.138 --> 00:08:35.468 Manager and he got that done actually without much of my help wow. 00:08:35.808 --> 00:08:39.418 I mean that is dedication some people would just nope out at this point i'm 00:08:39.418 --> 00:08:45.448 impressed okay all right so okay i have not done this process for a very long 00:08:45.448 --> 00:08:48.878 time but when you're trying to do the restore do you have to like log into a 00:08:48.878 --> 00:08:50.608 microsoft account i imagine. 00:08:50.608 --> 00:08:51.960 Oh that's a good question, 00:08:52.983 --> 00:08:54.530 No, I'm not sure, actually. 00:08:54.950 --> 00:08:57.238 Is it restoring from a local partition? 00:08:57.850 --> 00:08:59.640 I think some setups have that capability. 00:08:59.640 --> 00:09:05.240 Yeah, okay. But it says, what now? It can't restore it? It couldn't do the restore process? 00:09:05.240 --> 00:09:05.880 Correct. 00:09:05.880 --> 00:09:10.474 How can it not do the restore process? Wipe the drive, just re-image it. 00:09:10.770 --> 00:09:12.256 I don't know, there's a way, right? 00:09:13.109 --> 00:09:17.860 And I think we tried a few things because it did have the ability to talk to it. 00:09:17.860 --> 00:09:20.580 Maybe there was a login that he missed or something, but you're doing it from 00:09:20.580 --> 00:09:22.360 a pretty basic sort of environment, right? 00:09:22.360 --> 00:09:25.561 like this is yeah this is windows after all and again you know, 00:09:26.356 --> 00:09:30.077 not a windows expert and also was remote and we didn't even do like a high bandwidth 00:09:30.309 --> 00:09:33.350 like most of this was just done over some sessions we were both on the on telegram, 00:09:33.930 --> 00:09:37.300 so we weren't even on a call or anything so i probably could have provided better 00:09:37.300 --> 00:09:38.730 support i will be the first but. 00:09:38.730 --> 00:09:42.370 I was doing i was doing obs tech support over chat it's sort of a similar thing 00:09:42.370 --> 00:09:44.530 back and forth oh yeah try this yeah okay. 00:09:44.768 --> 00:09:48.100 So probably like if we maybe on the other computer download like a windows iso 00:09:48.100 --> 00:09:50.360 and then you know we could have reinstalled obviously that was going to be one 00:09:50.360 --> 00:09:55.370 plan or don't try to do a reset that way uh but all of the default guidance 00:09:55.370 --> 00:09:58.140 paths were basically failing one after another. 00:09:58.140 --> 00:09:59.800 And your brother alan must be 00:09:59.800 --> 00:10:03.320 losing faith in windows one moment after another as he goes through this. 00:10:03.320 --> 00:10:06.290 Process yeah and he never really loved it it was just you know he knew how to 00:10:06.290 --> 00:10:08.882 use it he doesn't game a lot yeah gaming, 00:10:10.003 --> 00:10:13.670 yeah um but he's been linux curious obviously like you know he's listened to 00:10:13.670 --> 00:10:17.310 some of the show he uh i talk about linux with him all the time obviously and 00:10:17.310 --> 00:10:21.450 he does have a laptop that It does have Linux on it. So he's a big split. 00:10:21.450 --> 00:10:23.410 Do you remember what distro is on the laptop right now? 00:10:23.410 --> 00:10:25.050 Oh, good question. Mint? 00:10:25.050 --> 00:10:26.570 I was going to say Mint is what my recollection was. 00:10:26.670 --> 00:10:28.350 Yeah, or maybe just Ubuntu. 00:10:28.350 --> 00:10:33.050 Okay. All right. So he's not totally new to it, open to the idea, 00:10:33.050 --> 00:10:36.340 assuming the workflow for gaming is the big one. 00:10:36.630 --> 00:10:40.590 And some dev. Yeah, he's been experimenting with doing some Python development, 00:10:40.590 --> 00:10:44.779 so having something that doesn't make that overly crazy is not a bad idea. 00:10:45.568 --> 00:10:52.093 and then another bit of compatibility is he does use some of the office suite oh yeah, 00:10:52.940 --> 00:10:56.707 primarily and this is actually the kind of the toughest part is um powerpoint, 00:10:57.549 --> 00:11:01.049 but he doesn't use it he's not in the he's not in the position of like i got 00:11:01.049 --> 00:11:04.299 to make this deck that i exchange for this work reason or whatever he actually 00:11:04.299 --> 00:11:07.909 uses it more as a creative process for like storyboarding and kind of like outlining a. 00:11:07.909 --> 00:11:08.999 Tool he's familiar with. 00:11:08.999 --> 00:11:13.329 Yes and so that's actually another area that it turns out he might be open to 00:11:13.329 --> 00:11:17.749 using something else so it was an area to look at i guess there's some like 00:11:17.749 --> 00:11:21.509 there's lin office which is sort of a streamlined setup to run office in a Windows 00:11:21.509 --> 00:11:23.712 VM and like try to make it as smooth as possible. 00:11:24.149 --> 00:11:26.249 There's a lot of great web presentation apps now too. 00:11:26.249 --> 00:11:29.329 There are, yeah. So I think somewhere between, he may just like lean into using 00:11:29.329 --> 00:11:32.478 something like Caden Live or a video editing app and doing things in there. 00:11:32.849 --> 00:11:35.235 Because a lot of it, I guess, was doing some animations and stuff. 00:11:35.909 --> 00:11:40.538 Or as you say, like there are now a lot of other alternative presentation apps. 00:11:40.997 --> 00:11:44.329 And actually I found a specific one. I couldn't tell if it was open source or 00:11:44.329 --> 00:11:48.741 not, but it was like a new storyboarding app that had a Linux environment. 00:11:48.927 --> 00:11:49.429 Cool. 00:11:49.429 --> 00:11:52.949 And Lookprint is specifically for storyboarding. So it was interesting to see. 00:11:52.949 --> 00:11:54.239 And of course, there are, even if 00:11:54.239 --> 00:11:59.069 you do want Office, even besides just LibreOffice, there are multiple WPS. 00:11:59.629 --> 00:12:02.441 There's like a, I don't know, I don't need that, so I'm not an expert. 00:12:02.696 --> 00:12:05.329 But just looking and checking, there still are quite a number of different Office 00:12:05.329 --> 00:12:08.989 suites, some with more or less compatibility or the ribbon and all of that. 00:12:08.989 --> 00:12:10.498 They're going to have users for a long time. 00:12:10.637 --> 00:12:13.145 Yeah. So what I was discovering is... 00:12:13.958 --> 00:12:18.753 Maybe, you know, any taste from Microsoft is now being slowly beaten out of 00:12:18.753 --> 00:12:20.563 him as part of this procedure. But for whatever the reason, or, 00:12:20.563 --> 00:12:23.453 you know, he's already using a lot of open source software. So that's, 00:12:23.453 --> 00:12:26.533 as we like to say, kind of the first little seedling step that you can try and 00:12:26.533 --> 00:12:28.331 plant when you're doing a conversion like this. 00:12:28.906 --> 00:12:31.077 He even joked with me, and this is where it started, was like, 00:12:31.564 --> 00:12:35.033 well, maybe it's time I just InstaBipe and install Linux. 00:12:35.033 --> 00:12:35.823 Yeah, there we go. 00:12:35.863 --> 00:12:36.303 There's the window. 00:12:36.503 --> 00:12:37.693 That's the window. 00:12:37.693 --> 00:12:38.378 Yes. 00:12:39.092 --> 00:12:42.663 I didn't, I wasn't trying to push. I mean, I've suggested it in the past, of course. 00:12:43.323 --> 00:12:48.241 I always mention that Proton's getting really good, but that was a change. 00:12:48.868 --> 00:12:52.503 You know, I can understand it because you just, if you're following the tech 00:12:52.503 --> 00:12:55.483 news a little bit, you do keep hearing about advances with Linux gaming. 00:12:55.483 --> 00:12:56.890 I think that's in the general tech news. 00:12:57.453 --> 00:13:00.501 And then talking to you, I'm sure he's gotten some pretty good insights into that. 00:13:00.803 --> 00:13:06.303 On the Steam machine too, right? That's a huge boon for Linux gaming. 00:13:07.554 --> 00:13:11.533 And you know he does he does like he does play a lot of games but he's not playing 00:13:11.533 --> 00:13:16.253 like the crazy anti-cheat triple a ones we did some light random checking might 00:13:16.253 --> 00:13:19.693 do another pass of going to proton gb and checking things out and for the most 00:13:19.693 --> 00:13:22.246 part they all seem like on lock. 00:13:22.496 --> 00:13:25.723 Is he open to a different distribution than the one that's on his laptop. 00:13:25.723 --> 00:13:29.293 Yeah so i think that and actually this was pretty fun because he went and did 00:13:29.293 --> 00:13:31.973 his own little survey of asking a few of the different element i think he asked 00:13:31.973 --> 00:13:37.283 gemini and claude maybe another um to sort of see interesting well what should i be running yeah. 00:13:37.283 --> 00:13:38.993 Yeah what was the general consensus. 00:13:38.993 --> 00:13:44.343 Uh i we got pop os okay uh we got nobara which is based on fedora and kind of 00:13:44.343 --> 00:13:49.563 aimed at gaming and content creation uh and then we got linux mint and then 00:13:49.563 --> 00:13:53.110 i think those were from gemini and i think claude brought in bazite. 00:13:53.656 --> 00:13:57.843 Okay fair enough what i don't hear in there is standard fedora i didn't even 00:13:57.843 --> 00:14:00.268 hear a standard Ubuntu, and I didn't hear a Nix OS. 00:14:00.564 --> 00:14:02.015 No. No. 00:14:03.046 --> 00:14:09.166 And then, so, of course, I suggest XOS. And then he goes and asks the bot about it. 00:14:09.166 --> 00:14:09.847 And what's it say? 00:14:10.286 --> 00:14:12.036 It's actually pretty negative on the idea. 00:14:12.036 --> 00:14:13.066 Oh, really? 00:14:13.066 --> 00:14:16.476 Well, it's like, you know, it violates the file system hierarchy, 00:14:16.476 --> 00:14:19.656 and that could break stuff, and it might make it harder to run the wine stuff. 00:14:19.656 --> 00:14:23.616 He does also use fruity loops and make music and stuff. So he doesn't use any 00:14:23.616 --> 00:14:26.666 crazy VSTs, I don't think, but that's another factor of potential. 00:14:26.726 --> 00:14:29.736 I mean, that is kind of fair. That is fair criticism. 00:14:29.736 --> 00:14:33.966 Yeah, and then he mentioned, you know, you have to edit you can't just apt install 00:14:33.966 --> 00:14:37.586 or dnf install i think is the example it is well i think that's a feature well 00:14:37.586 --> 00:14:42.386 yes but you know you have to go edit this text file in a obscured really. 00:14:42.386 --> 00:14:43.586 Hard sounds super yeah. 00:14:48.437 --> 00:14:51.206 Um so he was getting some mixed messaging let's just say that's. 00:14:51.206 --> 00:14:54.606 Fair i could see it i could definitely from that perspective too right yeah yeah. 00:14:55.386 --> 00:15:01.319 And And here's the key part, I think, some extra context. There's NixOS. 00:15:02.642 --> 00:15:07.450 And then there's what we've been doing lately, which is Nix OS plus an LLM. 00:15:07.450 --> 00:15:09.960 Yeah. Sort of LLM generated Nix OS. 00:15:09.960 --> 00:15:10.290 Right. 00:15:10.961 --> 00:15:12.435 LLM guided Nix OS. 00:15:12.569 --> 00:15:17.770 And that is, I think, so like, I think that take he got was basically assuming. 00:15:17.770 --> 00:15:18.840 This is a whole new pitch. 00:15:18.840 --> 00:15:22.800 Yes. Because the take he got was totally calibrated for like the old days. 00:15:22.800 --> 00:15:23.180 Yeah. 00:15:23.180 --> 00:15:25.870 Where you had, like, if he was going to do that, and it didn't necessarily know 00:15:25.870 --> 00:15:29.200 that like I'm willing to be a support and help him and onboard and all that 00:15:29.200 --> 00:15:30.071 kind of stuff, which I am. 00:15:31.017 --> 00:15:34.800 but in the old days you're going to have to go figure out the NixOS wiki and 00:15:34.800 --> 00:15:38.490 go look at a bunch of examples like you want a new user to figure out a NixOS 00:15:38.490 --> 00:15:41.250 config of course no I'm like well no, 00:15:42.570 --> 00:15:47.200 let's get a NixOS config crafted for him and then he can interface with that 00:15:47.200 --> 00:15:51.110 and have a bot maintain it teach him how to use it update it engage as much 00:15:51.110 --> 00:15:53.358 or as little as he wants ask about it this is beautiful, 00:15:54.816 --> 00:15:59.660 and then so that I realized was like ah because it's if he was just making like 00:15:59.660 --> 00:16:02.990 a living room pc or is primarily gaming and there wasn't a bunch else then like 00:16:02.990 --> 00:16:05.520 bazite could be great or something like that there's a lot of good options. 00:16:05.520 --> 00:16:06.454 If he was just doing steam. 00:16:06.878 --> 00:16:12.160 Yes but it felt like he also kind of expressed right he'd just been burned by 00:16:12.160 --> 00:16:15.990 the computer he wanted something that just worked right that like he had a computer 00:16:15.990 --> 00:16:18.770 he could use because at this point it's been like over a week where he's kind 00:16:18.770 --> 00:16:21.810 of been in this like semi-workable computer state, 00:16:22.530 --> 00:16:24.870 i don't think he's been playing any games it's just like it's. 00:16:25.330 --> 00:16:29.160 Not uh he's using an nvidia card yes and you know my personal experience is 00:16:29.160 --> 00:16:34.190 nothing has been as rock solid as nyx would stick into the gpu driver and making sure everything works. 00:16:34.190 --> 00:16:40.220 So it just felt like to answer the brief like if you allow the combo of llm 00:16:40.220 --> 00:16:44.040 plus nyx right get something because nyx is kind of like an operating system 00:16:44.040 --> 00:16:48.858 toolkit and if you have something that can help a new person orchestrate that yeah, 00:16:49.410 --> 00:16:52.640 put the pieces they want together with the toolkit without having to be an expert 00:16:52.640 --> 00:16:54.250 in how to compose the toolkit yourself, 00:16:55.052 --> 00:16:58.744 then maybe that unlocks something that is otherwise maybe not quite out there. 00:16:59.604 --> 00:17:04.771 So you could almost envision a world where you set up somebody like your brother 00:17:04.771 --> 00:17:10.611 with a system, a base Nix config, and then an icon in the toolbar that just 00:17:10.611 --> 00:17:13.671 like you click this and it just opens open code, right? 00:17:13.671 --> 00:17:14.391 I like that idea. 00:17:14.391 --> 00:17:17.711 And then anything he wants to do, he just goes to that and he changes he wants to. 00:17:17.711 --> 00:17:20.401 And maybe, you know, pre-configure it to you so it knows how to like read some 00:17:20.401 --> 00:17:23.311 initialization stuff so it has the context, like here's where the config is, 00:17:23.311 --> 00:17:24.431 here's how the system's managed. 00:17:24.431 --> 00:17:28.101 You know, agents MD that says, this is what you are, this is where your config lives. 00:17:28.101 --> 00:17:32.301 Yeah, I've been playing with recently like an expert Nix OS agent, 00:17:32.301 --> 00:17:35.431 basically. It's like, here's all the stuff I normally run. 00:17:35.733 --> 00:17:38.621 And oh yeah, by the way, there's this official like MCP over here. 00:17:38.621 --> 00:17:42.774 So you can learn all about Nix if you want. And don't make mistakes. 00:17:43.122 --> 00:17:45.231 Basically. Good. You got to include that. 00:17:45.231 --> 00:17:46.588 Yeah, that's an important one. 00:17:47.145 --> 00:17:50.421 I mean, this is, I mean, I know, I think a lot of people would be listening 00:17:50.421 --> 00:17:52.801 going from Windows to Nix. It's kind of a crazy jump. 00:17:52.801 --> 00:17:54.631 Yeah, this is a new Linux user. What are you doing? 00:17:54.631 --> 00:17:58.151 You guys are a bunch of Nix heads over complicating this. But I would actually 00:17:58.471 --> 00:18:02.381 like to to make the pitch that I think it's quite reasonable because my son 00:18:02.381 --> 00:18:03.457 Dylan has been using it for years. 00:18:04.263 --> 00:18:09.093 well over a year now. And we've tried, we tried Fedora, we tried Arch, 00:18:09.302 --> 00:18:11.566 I think initially Pop! OS, even before that. 00:18:12.164 --> 00:18:16.118 And what has really been fantastic about Nix OS is it really just, 00:18:16.118 --> 00:18:17.481 like it locks that driver in. 00:18:17.963 --> 00:18:22.958 And it creates this situation where I can load 32-bit libraries and all of the 00:18:22.958 --> 00:18:26.159 Steam stuff he needs for like the two months he's playing that game. 00:18:26.576 --> 00:18:29.931 And then when he's done with that game, we just go in and clean those 32-bit 00:18:30.065 --> 00:18:35.258 lines out and he rebuilds and his system is pristine again and for a gaming 00:18:35.258 --> 00:18:39.188 system keeping it pristine like that and keeping it lean and mean it does matter, 00:18:39.794 --> 00:18:43.808 and it's it just really excels at that then additionally you have a 00:18:44.128 --> 00:18:48.028 massive package repo to pull from so like all the launchers that might be out 00:18:48.028 --> 00:18:51.908 there for minecraft or you know all the other games they're in there and if 00:18:51.908 --> 00:18:55.009 they're not in there it's so easy to get flat packs working or app images, 00:18:55.456 --> 00:18:59.378 and you can even declaratively install those so they're just always there when they need them that. 00:18:59.378 --> 00:19:03.428 Did come because i was just thinking like okay like let's say he did use Novara 00:19:03.428 --> 00:19:06.218 or this other thing like okay I'm gonna have to A get a little more familiar 00:19:06.218 --> 00:19:08.678 with that system which is totally fine I mean I like learning about Linux systems 00:19:08.678 --> 00:19:10.781 but and then just have to deal with like, 00:19:11.630 --> 00:19:15.396 what is their package support like? And then, okay, you might have a higher 00:19:15.396 --> 00:19:18.676 hit rate of download some binary or install some deb or whatever, 00:19:19.336 --> 00:19:23.994 but if that doesn't work, then what does it look like to get that software there? 00:19:24.446 --> 00:19:28.109 And the combination of how much with the picks and just stuff we run into that 00:19:28.237 --> 00:19:31.186 either has a flake or is already in Nix packages, and then, 00:19:31.853 --> 00:19:36.136 that I know that it's very possible to build Nix packages from just about anything, 00:19:36.136 --> 00:19:38.406 and there's a lot of templates for whatever the thing happens to be, 00:19:38.406 --> 00:19:42.290 and gotten a lot more familiar with making random binaries work, It just felt like, 00:19:42.790 --> 00:19:46.986 to get stuff running, Nix might actually be the best way. 00:19:46.986 --> 00:19:50.846 For the stuff that's not in the repo or the stuff you want that's newer than 00:19:50.846 --> 00:19:51.973 what's in the repo. Yeah. 00:19:52.774 --> 00:19:58.226 Another thing I've been thinking is a huge lesson recently that we often overlook 00:19:58.226 --> 00:20:01.528 when we're trying to switch people like this is just rollbacks. 00:20:02.300 --> 00:20:05.686 Like the entire situation that he ran into with Windows, if he could do a simple 00:20:05.686 --> 00:20:09.186 rollback to like a week ago when everything was working, that would have made 00:20:09.186 --> 00:20:10.826 his situation so much simpler, right? 00:20:10.826 --> 00:20:15.687 And NixOS makes that really beautiful because rolling back is like, 00:20:16.035 --> 00:20:18.740 you hit down when you're rebooting, you hit enter and you're done. 00:20:19.296 --> 00:20:21.445 It's like super, super user friendly. 00:20:22.113 --> 00:20:26.526 So I think like a hard requirement for me now with bringing these kind of people 00:20:26.526 --> 00:20:31.216 to Linux is like, you have to have rollbacks because it's just cheap insurance. Why not? 00:20:31.216 --> 00:20:31.491 Yeah. 00:20:31.735 --> 00:20:32.096 Yeah. 00:20:32.096 --> 00:20:36.226 However you get them, having a rollback is super worthwhile in that situation, 00:20:36.226 --> 00:20:39.266 especially in remote support where it's like, okay, roll to something that's 00:20:39.266 --> 00:20:42.556 useful. then I can come look at why it won't upgrade or we can pick a time to do support. 00:20:42.556 --> 00:20:46.146 Well, let's actually just spend a moment with that because the remote situation 00:20:46.146 --> 00:20:51.666 with a Nix OS is going to be different than any other distro that you would provide him, right? 00:20:51.666 --> 00:20:55.036 Because the beauty here is the situation you just had where you're not on a 00:20:55.036 --> 00:20:58.322 phone, you're not on a video call, you're not in person, you're doing it over Telegram. 00:20:59.106 --> 00:21:03.554 You could pull up his Nix config in a GitHub repo and check it out on your system, 00:21:03.554 --> 00:21:06.461 find the problem or add the thing he needs, check it back in. 00:21:06.849 --> 00:21:10.664 And then with a couple of commands on his side, he could pull that new config 00:21:10.664 --> 00:21:13.496 in that you fixed remotely without ever SSHing into his machine. 00:21:13.827 --> 00:21:17.774 And boom, Robert's his uncle. He now has a working system or he has that thing installed. 00:21:18.210 --> 00:21:21.944 And Wes did the work for him without ever having to even connect to his system. 00:21:21.944 --> 00:21:24.274 It's like, and you could do it asynchronously. So like, hey, 00:21:24.274 --> 00:21:26.954 Wes, could you do this for me? And then like a couple hours later when you're 00:21:26.954 --> 00:21:30.014 back at the machine, you do it for him. And then tomorrow he does the update and he gets it. 00:21:30.594 --> 00:21:33.754 And you just, there are ways you could do that with distros. 00:21:34.314 --> 00:21:36.581 You could do that with just about every distro, but this is built in. 00:21:36.744 --> 00:21:40.844 It's like the default operating mode. And the whole config is like super easy 00:21:40.844 --> 00:21:44.204 to read. I can tell exactly what it was he was trying to do or what that wasn't working. 00:21:44.204 --> 00:21:47.574 And he clearly has the technical capabilities to be able to tell the differences 00:21:47.574 --> 00:21:49.457 so he could see, oh, what did Wes do and learn from that. 00:21:49.701 --> 00:21:50.119 Right. 00:21:50.496 --> 00:21:52.249 That's just really cool because he can review it. 00:21:52.359 --> 00:21:55.774 And if I did need to do remote support over a mesh network or whatever, 00:21:55.774 --> 00:21:58.854 it's, you know, It's not a big, complicated graphics environment or something. 00:21:58.854 --> 00:22:00.734 It's the same thing, right? 00:22:01.434 --> 00:22:03.274 Making an edit to a file and doing a system rebuild. 00:22:03.274 --> 00:22:03.737 It's huge. 00:22:03.888 --> 00:22:06.364 To his credit, he was definitely concerned about, like, yeah, 00:22:06.364 --> 00:22:09.324 how do I make this reliable? How do I know it'll work? How do I know I'm in 00:22:09.324 --> 00:22:11.725 control and can operate in it? So, like, when I first pitched... 00:22:12.287 --> 00:22:16.942 the idea of like having the LLM as a helper or guide, I think his experience 00:22:16.942 --> 00:22:19.632 was shaped mostly by using something in a browser tab. 00:22:19.632 --> 00:22:20.146 Of course. 00:22:20.302 --> 00:22:23.681 And like, that can be, it's still a great way to ask about NixOS and Nix and all that. 00:22:23.942 --> 00:22:29.462 But I think it'll be an interesting shift if we try this to see the experience 00:22:29.462 --> 00:22:31.492 of like, oh, this thing can just manage the system. 00:22:31.492 --> 00:22:33.352 It can use tools and it can call these things. 00:22:33.352 --> 00:22:33.632 Yeah. 00:22:33.632 --> 00:22:34.797 It reads the config. 00:22:35.117 --> 00:22:37.772 And then he also was worried like, well, what if like, what if it's offline 00:22:37.772 --> 00:22:39.832 or, you know, like I don't want to pay for this or, you know, 00:22:39.832 --> 00:22:40.701 like something like that. 00:22:41.532 --> 00:22:45.382 and i think he didn't quite appreciate yet and this will be another piece that 00:22:45.382 --> 00:22:47.087 i'm curious to see land is the, 00:22:47.586 --> 00:22:50.462 because it's you know the nix really makes everything like you only need it 00:22:50.462 --> 00:22:51.603 when you want to make changes 00:22:52.015 --> 00:22:55.012 and you can learn to make a lot of changes yes exactly and you can learn to 00:22:55.012 --> 00:22:57.902 make a lot of changes yourself right like okay maybe maybe if you're a newbie 00:22:57.902 --> 00:23:00.212 and trying to make a massive restructuring of your setup that's going to be 00:23:00.212 --> 00:23:02.872 difficult by yourself but that's mostly not what you're doing if you have a 00:23:02.872 --> 00:23:06.512 working setup it's like enabling one more service or adding another, 00:23:06.972 --> 00:23:08.572 yeah or adding another like the 00:23:08.572 --> 00:23:11.162 most common one is just adding another package to the list of packages. 00:23:11.162 --> 00:23:12.102 Which is super simple. 00:23:12.102 --> 00:23:14.332 Which is typing the name of the package for the most part. 00:23:14.332 --> 00:23:17.852 I think I would also argue that those changes are really inexpensive in the 00:23:17.852 --> 00:23:22.716 sense that a lot of the lower end models can handle NixOS very, very easily. 00:23:23.332 --> 00:23:27.452 And so you don't need the biggest and greatest model to handle a little NixOS 00:23:27.452 --> 00:23:37.352 config. So even some of the free low limit open code go stuff that they let you use is totally good. 00:23:37.752 --> 00:23:41.972 he'll never hit the limit on that just changing his NixOS config so I think 00:23:41.972 --> 00:23:43.498 that's actually a really nice pairing. 00:23:44.492 --> 00:23:48.342 Yeah you can model shop you can use less powerful models for this and like Wes 00:23:48.342 --> 00:23:50.098 said you can read it and look it up, 00:23:50.876 --> 00:23:51.765 yourself manually too. 00:23:52.049 --> 00:23:55.713 Yeah or ask one in the tab or you know a lot of options once it's all set up 00:23:55.713 --> 00:23:59.103 and working and of course nix provides a lot of stuff too so even if them you 00:23:59.103 --> 00:24:02.631 know makes a mistake a few times like you do a next flight check you do a test build, 00:24:03.160 --> 00:24:06.743 and it won't update if it won't build right so you you not only have still a 00:24:06.743 --> 00:24:09.859 rollback but like you won't even get to the new system a lot of the time. 00:24:10.416 --> 00:24:13.583 And you know you can have these things make tools um there are wrappers whatnot 00:24:13.583 --> 00:24:18.553 so i have one it's just uh nomad update and i have a couple options and nomad 00:24:18.553 --> 00:24:22.223 update all just make sure that everything's checked in and current on main and 00:24:22.223 --> 00:24:24.023 make sure all my flake inputs are updated. 00:24:24.023 --> 00:24:28.373 It rebuilds my main system. It goes through everything. And then at the end, 00:24:28.373 --> 00:24:31.613 it has a health check that it does to make sure everything is properly running 00:24:31.613 --> 00:24:34.011 and all the services restarted that need to restart, et cetera, et cetera. 00:24:34.452 --> 00:24:38.223 Those are all just like three or four individual commands that are wrapped into one command. 00:24:38.842 --> 00:24:41.053 And it's just really simple to have something to have it build that for you. 00:24:41.053 --> 00:24:44.523 And then you can have the LLM use that itself. And it's another way to check 00:24:44.523 --> 00:24:45.958 to make sure everything's being done correctly. 00:24:46.126 --> 00:24:49.568 Yeah. Whatever you need, You know, you want it done that way and follow the procedure every time. 00:24:50.243 --> 00:24:52.443 So you're open to this idea of, like, LM as interface? 00:24:52.443 --> 00:24:53.203 I think so, yeah. 00:24:53.303 --> 00:24:54.083 Really? That's pretty fun. 00:24:54.083 --> 00:24:57.283 Yeah, so once I was trying to clarify, like, you know, it's only needed if you're 00:24:57.283 --> 00:24:59.943 trying to have it help you make changes. Nothing breaks without it. 00:24:59.943 --> 00:25:02.067 Everything, you can always roll back or, you know, undo. 00:25:03.623 --> 00:25:08.303 He made some, like, say, I started building him, like, a little initial NixOS config to make it easy. 00:25:08.883 --> 00:25:12.013 You know, we plan a little time to get it going, and I can walk him through 00:25:12.013 --> 00:25:14.767 applying the first build and getting the system working and stuff. 00:25:15.803 --> 00:25:19.043 And so I wrote a little summary of like, here's what's in the stuff. 00:25:19.043 --> 00:25:21.135 Here's how the system works. Just a little brief paragraph. 00:25:22.423 --> 00:25:25.603 He liked it. And he's like, it feels like I'm using like a Star Wars computer. 00:25:26.663 --> 00:25:28.703 So I think that was an endorsement. 00:25:28.703 --> 00:25:29.903 It does feel like that, doesn't it? 00:25:32.263 --> 00:25:36.183 Okay. Well, so I kind of want to know how it goes after a while. 00:25:36.183 --> 00:25:37.113 Like we should do like a little check-in. 00:25:37.363 --> 00:25:39.252 Yeah, follow up. I think we can do that. 00:25:40.383 --> 00:25:44.103 So what we could do is we could kind of talk about my experience. 00:25:44.983 --> 00:25:50.711 and kind of look at something that's been in production for just about 110 days. 00:25:50.937 --> 00:25:53.544 Yeah, because I think maybe one of the objections would be, 00:25:54.462 --> 00:25:58.296 Okay, it's one thing to have someone like us who, like, understands Nix pretty 00:25:58.296 --> 00:26:03.535 well and can, in a theory, in a pinch, could guide, could intervene, could look. 00:26:04.366 --> 00:26:08.006 If this user can't do that, like, what do you, what might this turn into? 00:26:08.006 --> 00:26:11.206 And I think, too, the second argument would be, okay, well, it'll set up the 00:26:11.206 --> 00:26:14.941 initial config, but then over time it's going to turn into absolute slop. 00:26:15.301 --> 00:26:18.356 Because I think one of the biggest arguments is, well, it can produce the initial 00:26:18.356 --> 00:26:22.946 application, it can produce the initial configuration, but it is not good at 00:26:22.946 --> 00:26:25.489 long-term maintenance. It is not good at sustaining a project, 00:26:25.837 --> 00:26:28.408 which would be true for a desktop over time as well. 00:26:28.704 --> 00:26:34.276 So I think, you know, I got 110 days we can look at, and it's been a hell of 00:26:34.276 --> 00:26:38.146 110 days. This is going to be way beyond the average 110 days, 00:26:39.266 --> 00:26:42.747 but it'll give us an idea how a machine does. So that's next. 00:26:52.145 --> 00:26:57.439 Chris, you mentioned 110 days. That's like, you know, a third of a year or something like that. 00:26:57.654 --> 00:27:01.603 And I know you've been dabbling with all sorts of things. 00:27:01.603 --> 00:27:06.993 We talked about Hermes on our AI clanker stream. So I would imagine that plays 00:27:06.993 --> 00:27:11.333 in here a little bit. You've been, what, deep diving on an open code? 00:27:11.873 --> 00:27:13.453 You got Laura over there doing stuff for you. 00:27:14.693 --> 00:27:16.293 Explain the situation. What's going on here? 00:27:16.949 --> 00:27:18.383 You know, for the show. I do it for the show, guys. 00:27:18.383 --> 00:27:19.483 I do it for the show. Thanks. 00:27:20.582 --> 00:27:23.665 When Claude Crab or whatever it was called, what was it called initially? 00:27:24.373 --> 00:27:24.901 Claude Bot? 00:27:25.029 --> 00:27:25.917 Claude Bot came out. 00:27:26.132 --> 00:27:27.103 Claude Crab. 00:27:27.103 --> 00:27:30.223 I installed that, and then it became Molt Bot, so I updated to that. 00:27:30.223 --> 00:27:33.183 And then it became OpenClaw, so I updated to that. And then I had to build a 00:27:33.183 --> 00:27:36.273 whole infrastructure to make it run, including a way to update it where I didn't 00:27:36.273 --> 00:27:38.893 have to pull in a bunch of Windows and Mac NPM packages. I mean, 00:27:38.893 --> 00:27:40.824 I built an infrastructure for OpenClaw. 00:27:41.144 --> 00:27:43.384 Several versions of one, I would argue. 00:27:44.139 --> 00:27:46.903 Then I had to migrate to a new machine because my disk started to fail rapidly. 00:27:46.903 --> 00:27:47.633 Yeah, right. 00:27:47.633 --> 00:27:51.599 So I had like two hours to migrate to a new host and I got it on ThinkCenter. 00:27:52.266 --> 00:27:55.749 No, that was, I was there. That was not two hours. That was like a half day. 00:27:56.196 --> 00:27:58.933 You're right. Well, the initial transfer was a half day, but then I did the 00:27:58.933 --> 00:28:01.063 right thing and I set stuff up properly and that took forever. 00:28:01.063 --> 00:28:02.715 But the initial data transfer was pretty quick. 00:28:02.959 --> 00:28:03.363 All right. 00:28:03.363 --> 00:28:08.023 And then I transitioned from OpenClaw to Hermes, the Hermes agent system. 00:28:08.023 --> 00:28:12.013 And so there's just, it's a lot, but only, not only this, this agent, 00:28:12.013 --> 00:28:15.643 this multi-agent system, it's six agents. It manages things, 00:28:15.643 --> 00:28:19.253 aspects of podcast production, news curation. It does a whole bunch of home 00:28:19.253 --> 00:28:20.384 automation stuff for me. 00:28:20.941 --> 00:28:25.469 It's doing security monitoring, camera monitoring. There's a lot the system is constantly doing. 00:28:26.038 --> 00:28:29.086 And so I had a really, really quick setup. 00:28:30.133 --> 00:28:33.666 I'll just point that out. But what we have is, yeah, 110 days old, 00:28:34.003 --> 00:28:39.933 837 commits, roughly 7.7 commits per day to my infrastructure. 00:28:39.933 --> 00:28:40.603 Oh, really? 00:28:40.940 --> 00:28:44.643 For one Nix OS host, 11 custom built packages, 7 GitHub workflows, 00:28:44.643 --> 00:28:49.845 5 primary agent workflows, roughly a 6 megabyte repo size. 00:28:50.088 --> 00:28:50.878 Good little repo. 00:28:50.982 --> 00:28:52.631 It's a big boy. 00:28:53.599 --> 00:29:00.525 And, you know, I had the different LLMs run a little audit of it to kind of give me a roast. 00:29:00.977 --> 00:29:03.950 And it was fairly nice on a lot of things. 00:29:04.368 --> 00:29:08.371 But, you know, what I wanted to find out was, has it become slop? 00:29:08.574 --> 00:29:13.248 You know, because it started with a pretty straightforward MVP Nix OS headless 00:29:13.248 --> 00:29:16.120 system that it was completely deployed by the agents. 00:29:16.672 --> 00:29:21.698 And now it's become, you know, with 7.7 commits per day, it's become this massive 00:29:21.698 --> 00:29:25.931 thing that runs back-end infrastructure for all kinds of agent services and podcast production. 00:29:29.042 --> 00:29:32.671 So, I looked at this, and there's a few things I definitely think are great. 00:29:32.926 --> 00:29:34.418 I'm very impressed with a few things. 00:29:35.097 --> 00:29:37.628 Documentation, things like that. I mean, you should probably saw. 00:29:37.628 --> 00:29:40.338 There's a couple things before I get to the bad. You probably saw that we're good. 00:29:40.338 --> 00:29:41.218 Yeah, I got some good takes. 00:29:41.218 --> 00:29:42.468 Because I didn't save any of the good takes. 00:29:42.908 --> 00:29:46.938 This is a remarkably well-documented, thoughtfully secured home lab built by 00:29:46.938 --> 00:29:48.088 someone who actually cares. 00:29:48.588 --> 00:29:52.028 The runbooks and agents.md are better than most startups. I mean, 00:29:52.028 --> 00:29:53.418 this is going to be some LLM glaze, obviously. 00:29:53.468 --> 00:29:54.248 Yeah, it's glazing. 00:29:54.248 --> 00:29:58.328 I asked it for that. 86% of services ship with real system dehardening. 00:29:58.668 --> 00:30:01.788 The tested podcast pipeline is genuinely production-grade. 00:30:02.268 --> 00:30:06.425 And the one giant file is a cohesive single-host design, not a sin in Nix, 00:30:06.623 --> 00:30:09.208 whose only real flaw is shell living in the wrong layer. 00:30:09.208 --> 00:30:12.928 With a focused cleanup pass, delete the dead tree, lift the shell into packages, 00:30:12.928 --> 00:30:16.368 de-dupe the secret loader, it becomes exactly the clean, maintainable system 00:30:16.368 --> 00:30:18.428 its documentation already claims it is. 00:30:19.028 --> 00:30:21.745 I do have a hotter take when we're ready. 00:30:22.917 --> 00:30:26.650 You know, it's pretty good. It's pretty good. I think the key area, 00:30:28.707 --> 00:30:32.577 I want to be fair. I think it's pretty good. But the key area of concern that 00:30:32.577 --> 00:30:35.927 I have is there's a 14,000 line Nix config. 00:30:36.507 --> 00:30:39.797 I think that one file is more than the rest of the other Nix files combined. 00:30:39.797 --> 00:30:45.226 Yeah. And I think a lot of it is basically inline shell script stuff, right? 00:30:45.557 --> 00:30:46.967 Activation scripts, Chris? 00:30:46.967 --> 00:30:49.767 Is this where your more harder take comes from, Wes? Is this, 00:30:49.767 --> 00:30:51.367 have I gotten to the root of the issue? 00:30:51.867 --> 00:30:52.567 Yeah, let's see here. 00:30:53.707 --> 00:30:55.777 Because it is very embarrassing when I learned about that. 00:30:55.777 --> 00:30:59.607 This repo is a 14,000-line shell script wearing a NixOS costume, 00:31:01.404 --> 00:31:05.409 propped up next to a 67,000-line corpse it refuses to bury. 00:31:05.768 --> 00:31:09.537 The author clearly knows how to build real software. The tested Python package 00:31:09.537 --> 00:31:11.428 and the one elegant combinator prove it. 00:31:11.765 --> 00:31:15.927 So the duplication, the hand-rolled activation, and the zombie CI aren't ignorance, 00:31:15.927 --> 00:31:17.378 they're accumulated laziness. 00:31:17.640 --> 00:31:21.327 And the longer that retired open-clog graveyard and the copy-pasted 12-time 00:31:21.327 --> 00:31:25.627 secret loader stay in the tree, The more every future change-based attacks the 00:31:25.627 --> 00:31:27.154 author already knows is stupid. 00:31:27.363 --> 00:31:31.347 Yeah. I do need to get rid of it. I kept the open claw config so I could roll 00:31:31.347 --> 00:31:34.557 back. Like, that's never going to happen at this point. So it is time to purge 00:31:34.557 --> 00:31:36.907 that. Because what was that? That was 16,000 lines of it right there. 00:31:36.907 --> 00:31:37.104 Yeah. 00:31:37.853 --> 00:31:38.787 Oh, man. 00:31:38.944 --> 00:31:40.482 I do have some more here. 00:31:40.732 --> 00:31:45.387 It is not good. I'll admit 14,000 lines is too many lines. And a shell script 00:31:45.387 --> 00:31:48.747 in there, I'm personally comfortable with, but I recognize it's not... 00:31:49.898 --> 00:31:51.062 The recommended way to do it. 00:31:51.082 --> 00:31:51.682 Okay, here we go. 00:31:51.682 --> 00:31:52.272 You got more? 00:31:52.272 --> 00:31:52.602 Yeah. 00:31:52.602 --> 00:31:53.642 Oh, okay, good. 00:31:53.642 --> 00:32:02.128 That Hermes.nix, roughly 61% of its 14,352 lines live inside string literals 00:32:02.459 --> 00:32:06.082 as 109 write-shell script slash write-shell script bin wrappers. 00:32:06.082 --> 00:32:06.922 Thank you, thank you. 00:32:07.282 --> 00:32:10.582 The largest being Hermes Todoist, that's 700 lines. 00:32:10.582 --> 00:32:13.342 Yeah, it's funny too, right? Because it's like, that's something I do use a 00:32:13.342 --> 00:32:17.012 lot. It's integration with Todoist, but didn't intend for it to live there. 00:32:17.215 --> 00:32:18.582 Breaking all the time? 00:32:18.582 --> 00:32:19.312 Smoke test. 00:32:19.312 --> 00:32:21.772 No, no, it doesn't break ever. Home Assistant stuff's in there. 00:32:21.772 --> 00:32:24.472 Home Assistant capability smoke test. That's 500 lines. 00:32:24.472 --> 00:32:25.107 Well, that's important. 00:32:25.202 --> 00:32:25.672 600 maybe. 00:32:25.672 --> 00:32:26.486 You got a smoke test. 00:32:26.869 --> 00:32:31.135 And this is the part that it doesn't like. And this is, you definitely could be, these are great. 00:32:31.484 --> 00:32:32.987 And none of them get shell check, 00:32:33.179 --> 00:32:36.952 runtime inputs, or any test because Nix can't see inside the strings. 00:32:37.260 --> 00:32:40.192 Binaries are at least resolved as a package's reference, so that part's good 00:32:40.192 --> 00:32:44.034 rather than something more difficult. But the duplication is even worse than the monolith. 00:32:44.289 --> 00:32:48.005 A security sensitive read secret M function is copy pasted 12 times. 00:32:48.190 --> 00:32:53.482 near identical plus three times as a sibling loader 150 lines of copy paste and secret. 00:32:53.482 --> 00:32:57.304 Load see i don't think that's a fair criticism because it's just saying read this environment. 00:32:57.531 --> 00:32:58.752 Yeah this probably reason. 00:32:58.752 --> 00:33:01.722 It's really and when you consider the size of the config the fact that that's 00:33:01.722 --> 00:33:03.532 in there 10 times or whatever is not that. 00:33:03.532 --> 00:33:07.352 And then it really wants to point out that basically everything in var lib hermes 00:33:07.352 --> 00:33:12.212 uh all the state there is in is in seven hand rolled system activation scripts 00:33:12.212 --> 00:33:16.862 yeah doing flat install with zero systemd temp file rules zero environment dot etsy. 00:33:17.282 --> 00:33:18.635 No no of course not. 00:33:18.989 --> 00:33:20.802 And all those activation steps 00:33:20.802 --> 00:33:24.169 are glued together with hard-coded lib dot string after dependency names, 00:33:24.877 --> 00:33:29.102 so ordering inside so ordering silently breaks on any rename or typo the net 00:33:29.102 --> 00:33:32.132 effect a boot critical file system setup and the agent's most sensitive code 00:33:32.132 --> 00:33:36.358 path live is untested unlinted duplicated shell that nix treats as opaque text, 00:33:37.504 --> 00:33:41.603 Well, exactly the same temp files and packages built right shell application, 00:33:41.603 --> 00:33:46.733 which could be a really easy swap that would give you a little more safety. 00:33:48.313 --> 00:33:49.053 That's what they exist for. 00:33:49.053 --> 00:33:51.063 Well, here, let me let me say, first of all. 00:33:52.432 --> 00:33:57.633 You know, I'm just having some fun here, boys. So what the activation script situation is. 00:33:57.847 --> 00:33:59.826 Just to make a clear justification. 00:34:00.285 --> 00:34:04.619 Is the Hermes config is declaratively configured through Nix, 00:34:04.619 --> 00:34:10.709 and there's a lot of runtime stuff that gets set up because ideally I'm making 00:34:10.709 --> 00:34:13.239 all the changes in the repo and then deploying it to the machine. 00:34:13.239 --> 00:34:17.474 So when the system sets up, it imports a lot of the runtime stuff from the Nix config. 00:34:17.775 --> 00:34:19.877 This is what's going on. Is there ways to do that better? 00:34:20.759 --> 00:34:23.129 No, no, I get you. But yeah, basically you have stuff, so it's all built in 00:34:23.129 --> 00:34:26.239 Nix and then you need it in the places that Hermes expects it at runtime. 00:34:26.239 --> 00:34:30.129 Yeah. So Hermes is like, and what always trips these things up and what it gets 00:34:30.129 --> 00:34:34.059 a little stuck on there with like the Etsy and the VAR stuff is, 00:34:34.699 --> 00:34:39.059 and they don't expect this, is I want these suckers to have full control. 00:34:39.059 --> 00:34:41.219 Everything, right? You can do everything on the system. 00:34:41.279 --> 00:34:42.099 This is your box. 00:34:42.099 --> 00:34:44.565 Right. There's no limits. And so they're always constantly like, 00:34:44.885 --> 00:34:47.739 you should really prevent this thing from writing Etsy. Give it a virtual Etsy. 00:34:47.739 --> 00:34:49.447 So it thinks it has Etsy. I'm like, no. 00:34:50.069 --> 00:34:53.349 No, the idea is this thing owns the box. It's a dedicated box. 00:34:53.349 --> 00:34:54.819 It's an experiment to see what happens. 00:34:54.819 --> 00:34:59.539 It's especially funny because, like, NixOS is primed up to have all of that, 00:34:59.539 --> 00:35:02.789 like, security hardening for, like, the Hermes service or all kinds of stuff 00:35:02.789 --> 00:35:06.899 that you really do have to explicitly walk back, which is good, but is kind of fussy. 00:35:07.259 --> 00:35:10.259 Also, some of that, right, and I do think what I need to do is, 00:35:10.259 --> 00:35:13.909 like, I need to spend a couple days doing a cleanup pass because some of it 00:35:13.909 --> 00:35:16.254 is done this way because that's how it was done for OpenClaw. 00:35:16.753 --> 00:35:20.889 And to just get things working, if that worked for open claw i just kept it 00:35:20.889 --> 00:35:22.865 working for hermes when i moved. 00:35:22.976 --> 00:35:26.819 Yes and like in all in all fairness uh i did a similar swap and i have some 00:35:26.819 --> 00:35:29.259 similar yeah some similar cruft that could use a glade. 00:35:29.259 --> 00:35:33.899 Up yeah so uh it did give me it gave me a grading score do you have that because 00:35:34.299 --> 00:35:37.519 uh i want to pull that up because i thought that was interesting it wasn't you 00:35:37.519 --> 00:35:40.153 know we're touching on the bad stuff because it is sort of embarrassing, 00:35:40.739 --> 00:35:44.982 and some of it honestly is from me just the direction i wanted to take things 00:35:45.162 --> 00:35:49.249 but um i got a grading score when i ran it through like a little, 00:35:49.987 --> 00:35:53.845 you know like a review and i thought it was pretty fair um so here's kind of 00:35:53.845 --> 00:36:00.482 how it overall it graded me uh i got a uh overall grade for reproducibility of a b plus, 00:36:01.004 --> 00:36:05.932 pretty good not too bad not too bad uh operational documentation i got an a, 00:36:06.623 --> 00:36:12.055 deployment safety a b plus testing discipline a b ci independence a c plus and 00:36:12.055 --> 00:36:13.583 that's because i have that old open claw, 00:36:14.588 --> 00:36:17.775 job that just doesn't work anymore. Secrets Recovery is a C+. 00:36:18.477 --> 00:36:22.088 Modularity, a C, which is kind of funny because this thing's been modulared 00:36:22.268 --> 00:36:25.695 and then demodulared a lot. Supply chain hygiene is a C. 00:36:26.735 --> 00:36:32.785 Maintainability at a current growth rate is a C. But guys, got an A-plus for 00:36:32.785 --> 00:36:34.335 ambition. I got an A-plus. 00:36:35.724 --> 00:36:39.985 Final verdict. This is better than the stereotype AI-generated infrastructure. 00:36:39.985 --> 00:36:41.952 It is not a pile of hallucinated nicks. 00:36:42.254 --> 00:36:46.995 it reflects real production feedback repeated debugging and increasing mature 00:36:46.995 --> 00:36:51.235 operational policy it's also becoming an agent built city with no zoning board. 00:36:52.195 --> 00:36:52.955 Yeah that's a good line. 00:36:52.955 --> 00:36:58.524 The recommendation I agree is split things out clean things up get rid of the old open cloth stuff. 00:36:59.495 --> 00:37:04.375 I think there is a lot of docs and policy I got an A- for that for you over here. 00:37:04.915 --> 00:37:06.475 If you'd like strong. 00:37:06.475 --> 00:37:10.495 Slightly ahead of code so if anything the docs and the policy and the rules 00:37:10.495 --> 00:37:12.815 and stuff is probably the strong which makes sense because you're kind of building 00:37:12.815 --> 00:37:15.225 it from that way in right like you are, 00:37:15.678 --> 00:37:19.155 obviously very involved in crafting exactly what's going on and testing the 00:37:19.155 --> 00:37:22.795 workflows and all of that and so a lot of that is like you need to have all 00:37:22.795 --> 00:37:26.684 of the skills and the agents or whatever else to define the workflows for things to get done 00:37:27.097 --> 00:37:30.855 uh so that's good and also like the packaging obviously there's some shell script 00:37:30.855 --> 00:37:33.375 improvements we could be doing but outside of that there is like you're doing 00:37:33.375 --> 00:37:36.176 a lot of packaging for stuff that you're running clean idiomatic uh, 00:37:36.634 --> 00:37:38.712 some really nice python in there, 00:37:39.808 --> 00:37:41.256 CI Health got C-. 00:37:41.256 --> 00:37:43.856 Yeah, well, just because I have that one thing. 00:37:43.856 --> 00:37:45.576 Oh, you need some other builds. 00:37:46.336 --> 00:37:46.949 Yeah, there you go. 00:37:47.454 --> 00:37:52.943 Secrets Hardening, C+, Dead Code Hygiene, D-. So, there's some good in the bed. 00:37:53.837 --> 00:38:00.436 Chris, what do you think, if you were to self-grade, what do you think is the 00:38:00.436 --> 00:38:01.831 most brittle part of this whole system? 00:38:02.796 --> 00:38:07.266 Probably that big old Nix, right? That big old Nix file is ridiculous. 00:38:07.266 --> 00:38:13.066 I got to get that bash stuff out of there. And that to me is like at the point 00:38:13.066 --> 00:38:18.584 of it's not breaking, but it's going to get more and more unmaintainable as time goes on. 00:38:19.696 --> 00:38:24.716 And I feel like that's 50% their fault, 50% my fault. I haven't really asked 00:38:24.716 --> 00:38:26.908 them to ever flag anything like this. I haven't asked them. 00:38:27.221 --> 00:38:30.826 To be clear, I've never even opened up any of these files. Everything's been generated. 00:38:30.826 --> 00:38:32.690 I think that's what makes it such a fun experiment. 00:38:32.905 --> 00:38:36.466 So, yeah, I mean, we're 110 days into it and this thing is rock solid. 00:38:36.466 --> 00:38:39.506 I mean, it builds every time. I mean, it really has been good. 00:38:39.506 --> 00:38:43.466 It's sort of a test of the philosophy of like, how much can this get right or 00:38:43.466 --> 00:38:46.326 serviceable with just testing on the outside, right? 00:38:46.326 --> 00:38:49.406 Does it do the things you need without ever looking under the hood? 00:38:49.406 --> 00:38:53.086 And obviously we know for a long time now that it can, but then that's just 00:38:53.086 --> 00:38:55.936 the question is like, how much mess is there? 00:38:55.936 --> 00:38:59.296 And what, and how bad is it to clean up? Because if it's, I mean, 00:38:59.296 --> 00:39:02.666 all code bases get some mess and then you do some cleanup passes. 00:39:02.666 --> 00:39:07.126 And so like how, how wacky or close to something that approximates reasonable 00:39:07.126 --> 00:39:08.563 software development is that? 00:39:08.871 --> 00:39:13.586 And something I've also noticed is happening is around the time the code base 00:39:13.586 --> 00:39:17.102 is getting to the point where it's like, oh, I really need to kind of do some maintenance on this. 00:39:17.904 --> 00:39:22.002 Newer iterations of the models are out and they're better at that thing. 00:39:22.542 --> 00:39:26.402 And so you can go back with better intelligence and clean it up. 00:39:26.913 --> 00:39:30.878 And this really struck me because this config, this nomad config, 00:39:31.563 --> 00:39:34.825 part of it started on my workstation RVB, which was failing, 00:39:35.272 --> 00:39:39.396 and then moved and became an open clock config. and then was sort of reinvented 00:39:39.396 --> 00:39:40.874 again to become a Hermes config. 00:39:43.667 --> 00:39:47.046 The downside is there's been some bloat, but the agents have been responsible 00:39:47.046 --> 00:39:50.156 for every time they've had to slice and dice and extract it from one system 00:39:50.156 --> 00:39:51.386 and can create a new system. 00:39:51.780 --> 00:39:54.968 They have done all of that work. Now, this is three trans. 00:39:55.293 --> 00:39:57.846 Well, there's actually been multiple transitions because there was the different 00:39:57.846 --> 00:40:00.436 versions of OpenClaw initially, too, that were very, very, very, 00:40:00.436 --> 00:40:01.632 very active development. 00:40:01.905 --> 00:40:04.726 So not only is it a new methodology and workflow that you're trying, 00:40:04.726 --> 00:40:08.378 but also everything that you are actually maintaining with this is very fast. Yeah. 00:40:08.563 --> 00:40:12.236 And so I think when you grade on that, it's actually pretty great. 00:40:12.969 --> 00:40:17.696 I think you have to give a pretty big positive score for it seems to work really well. 00:40:18.056 --> 00:40:20.686 Now I just need to go back with a little bit better model and say, 00:40:20.686 --> 00:40:23.854 let's split some of this out. Let's do a little bit better job of this. 00:40:24.120 --> 00:40:28.656 And the great part, right, is like there's a lot of tooling to help and built 00:40:28.656 --> 00:40:33.386 into NixOS in terms of like the right shell application that automatically runs shell check. 00:40:33.386 --> 00:40:37.456 and Nix OS provides a bunch of formatters and linters. And I mean, 00:40:37.456 --> 00:40:40.506 if you want to set up explicit checks for the flake or the builds, 00:40:40.506 --> 00:40:42.964 you can do load of VM and test it in there. 00:40:43.469 --> 00:40:43.936 That's great. 00:40:43.936 --> 00:40:47.086 And that's even just built on all the stuff of having your config in a text 00:40:47.086 --> 00:40:51.258 file in Git gives you in terms of like branching and rollback and all of that kind of safety. 00:40:51.432 --> 00:40:52.706 That's true. There's a lot of layers. 00:40:52.706 --> 00:40:53.840 So there's basically like... 00:40:54.920 --> 00:40:58.795 You can go hog wild with the refactoring and you always have the system you 00:40:58.795 --> 00:40:59.665 have right now to fall back to you. 00:40:59.965 --> 00:41:01.315 Well, it's like Git rollback and Nix rollback. 00:41:01.315 --> 00:41:01.485 Yeah. 00:41:01.505 --> 00:41:05.745 It's a beautiful thing. As a thought experiment, could you imagine doing this 00:41:05.745 --> 00:41:09.531 with like, I don't know, vanilla Ubuntu install? 00:41:10.262 --> 00:41:15.516 I don't think you could. I don't think you could. Right? I think the agents would run amok. 00:41:16.166 --> 00:41:21.466 I really think on a Debian or a Red Hat or an Ubuntu host, I really think they would run amok. 00:41:21.838 --> 00:41:25.575 I mean, yeah. I mean, maybe if it was- I've seen it. If it was a dedicated, 00:41:25.575 --> 00:41:28.485 if it was maintained by someone who knew what they were doing and had been set 00:41:28.485 --> 00:41:34.405 up as a dedicated, like, sysadmin bot that didn't really stray too far and the box didn't do very much. 00:41:34.405 --> 00:41:38.575 Yeah. And you could also put other layers of safety, like file system snapshots or VM snapshots. 00:41:38.575 --> 00:41:42.305 But I think just, like, the biggest risk is, I mean, there's a lot, 00:41:42.305 --> 00:41:45.695 but just, you know, it's not going to have good context or grounding necessarily 00:41:45.695 --> 00:41:46.515 for, like, what's happened. 00:41:46.515 --> 00:41:50.105 And because it is this imperative state that you kind of have to recheck on 00:41:50.105 --> 00:41:53.785 and go see what the runtime's like and, oh, why was that PPA added? 00:41:53.785 --> 00:41:56.955 and then that's what's breaking it now and then you remove it to fix this problem 00:41:56.955 --> 00:41:59.995 but did you have documentation that made it really clear why that was needed 00:41:59.995 --> 00:42:02.905 for this other important job on the box in a way that Nix just doesn't do? 00:42:02.905 --> 00:42:06.845 Besides logs, which there are logs for apt and whatnot, there's not a clear 00:42:06.845 --> 00:42:11.145 history for the agent to figure out what's been recently done and then narrow 00:42:11.145 --> 00:42:14.695 down the problem. So they have to start with a much wider scope and they have 00:42:14.695 --> 00:42:16.501 to narrow it down from a much wider data set. 00:42:16.868 --> 00:42:22.775 And so what I think what you're saying is because the way the system has to 00:42:22.775 --> 00:42:26.465 build, because Nix has like this boundary that you have to cross with a valid 00:42:26.465 --> 00:42:29.423 configuration, it adds a layer where... 00:42:30.480 --> 00:42:34.950 The agent can try, and they can get the config wrong, but Nix won't allow it. 00:42:35.159 --> 00:42:36.338 It won't allow it to build. 00:42:36.767 --> 00:42:39.187 So then the agent gets the error message. They see, oh, okay, 00:42:39.187 --> 00:42:41.173 I made a mistake on line 112. 00:42:41.391 --> 00:42:45.525 I go back. I fix line 112. I try a build again. Okay, it passes. 00:42:46.565 --> 00:42:52.537 That gate, that barrier, that build process doesn't exist on Ubuntu or Debian or Fedora. 00:42:53.014 --> 00:42:57.127 And so there's not that check that has to happen. So the agent can just go write 00:42:57.127 --> 00:43:01.343 a config for whatever service you're modifying, and maybe it wrote it wrong. 00:43:01.477 --> 00:43:02.882 Maybe it has a syntax error. 00:43:03.597 --> 00:43:06.427 Now when you reload the service, it doesn't start for some reason, right? 00:43:06.427 --> 00:43:11.907 Like that doesn't happen as frequently or as much or nearly at all with the 00:43:11.907 --> 00:43:16.967 Nix system setup. So it's like this additional harness that the agent has to 00:43:16.967 --> 00:43:20.669 interoperate with that prevents it making mistakes that it might otherwise make. 00:43:21.028 --> 00:43:26.671 And so if I were running an Ubuntu server, I might use it to help troubleshoot issues. 00:43:26.950 --> 00:43:29.997 I am actually using it on an Ubuntu server right now upstairs. 00:43:29.997 --> 00:43:33.480 My agent data is troubleshooting a problem with one of our Ubuntu hosts at the moment. 00:43:34.037 --> 00:43:36.627 But when I do that, to Wes's point, it's a very narrow scope. 00:43:36.627 --> 00:43:40.707 Everything requires implicit approval gates by me, all this stuff. 00:43:40.707 --> 00:43:43.782 Where on the NIC system, they YOLO. And I let them go. 00:43:44.972 --> 00:43:46.900 And that, you know, after 110 days is working. 00:43:48.253 --> 00:43:52.270 You know, I really wish when I was learning Linux, 00:43:53.002 --> 00:43:57.257 and well, I still am, but just experimenting with like running your own VPS, 00:43:57.597 --> 00:44:01.407 your own servers, even building your own desktop and like playing, 00:44:01.407 --> 00:44:05.417 you know, that stage where you play with Linux to understand how it works and how it's all crafted. 00:44:05.417 --> 00:44:09.817 That's one of the beautiful stages, but I've broken way too many systems, 00:44:09.817 --> 00:44:13.077 just like putting the wrong PPA in or something like that. 00:44:13.077 --> 00:44:17.267 Right. And like, I've broken Debian, I've broken Archa a great many times and 00:44:17.267 --> 00:44:20.037 Ubuntu systems and Mint system, like I've broken everything. 00:44:20.037 --> 00:44:26.787 And I think that gating for someone who's exploring a new OS for them is, 00:44:26.787 --> 00:44:28.540 is a beautiful thing because you can try stuff, 00:44:29.347 --> 00:44:33.827 and like, you've got this insurance package just sitting right there taking 00:44:33.827 --> 00:44:36.047 care of you to make sure you're not shooting yourself in the foot. 00:44:36.047 --> 00:44:41.157 And okay, I learned a lot by the consequences of the things I ruined. 00:44:41.157 --> 00:44:46.027 But at the same time, that really slowed me down and made me hesitate to really 00:44:46.027 --> 00:44:49.007 push the envelope and to learn more. 00:44:49.007 --> 00:44:56.117 So if there's some way we can have that kind of checks and balances for, 00:44:56.557 --> 00:44:59.897 you know, quote unquote, classic Linux, that would be amazing. 00:45:00.048 --> 00:45:01.137 That would be amazing for everybody. 00:45:01.477 --> 00:45:03.392 But in the meantime, just right next to us. 00:45:06.474 --> 00:45:09.983 I want to take a moment and mention my friends over at ConnectedInternet and 00:45:09.983 --> 00:45:13.231 use the promo code JUPITER35 to get $35 off your order. 00:45:13.498 --> 00:45:16.703 They're not a sponsor, but they sent me some gear a while ago and I just ended 00:45:16.703 --> 00:45:18.270 up using it over the weekend. 00:45:18.699 --> 00:45:22.313 And I'm like, this is so good. It's one box and it combines all of the high-speed 00:45:22.313 --> 00:45:24.081 data networks in the US and Canada. 00:45:24.853 --> 00:45:29.993 And it has technology in there. It's based on, I think, an open WRTOS and it 00:45:29.993 --> 00:45:32.782 kind of picks between the best for your signal and data and all of that, 00:45:33.206 --> 00:45:38.043 and they have truly unlimited plans as well, including plans with priority internet 00:45:38.043 --> 00:45:42.086 access, which means you get higher priority on the LTE network or the 5G network, 00:45:42.295 --> 00:45:43.944 and they have plans with no data caps. 00:45:44.229 --> 00:45:46.144 It's really rare out there. 00:45:46.748 --> 00:45:50.753 I mean, I have been doing this since the days of buying bootleg SIMs off of 00:45:50.753 --> 00:45:54.263 eBay, and to have something like this now is just remarkable. 00:45:54.263 --> 00:45:58.053 And to have it across the different popular networks too is really great. 00:45:58.053 --> 00:46:02.213 And not too long ago, they introduced their backup plan, $39 a month that comes 00:46:02.213 --> 00:46:04.302 with a router and the antenna and everything you need. 00:46:04.697 --> 00:46:08.104 And it just auto-fails over when your internet goes out and auto-fails back, 00:46:08.377 --> 00:46:12.754 if that's a term, auto-restores when your internet returns. It's just great. 00:46:13.195 --> 00:46:16.503 And they also have things for more permanent installs, like their Fortress Router, 00:46:16.503 --> 00:46:17.497 which I have up at the farm. 00:46:18.548 --> 00:46:22.332 Seven and ten a beast. Also run an open WRT. It's impressive. 00:46:23.183 --> 00:46:27.261 Connectininternet.com is where you go. Connectininternet.com. 00:46:27.679 --> 00:46:30.547 and if you use our promo code jupyter35 you can take, 00:46:31.403 --> 00:46:35.333 $35 off your entire order they hooked me up when they sent some gear and I'm 00:46:35.333 --> 00:46:38.282 giving them a shout because I'm still using to this day and I think it's great, 00:46:39.263 --> 00:46:42.293 and since we don't have an official sponsor for this spot I say go check out 00:46:42.293 --> 00:46:46.213 Connected Internet I really liked it and if you're mobile or you need a backup 00:46:46.213 --> 00:46:48.738 internet connection it's a no brainer promo code, 00:46:49.846 --> 00:46:51.072 jupyter35. 00:46:53.626 --> 00:46:59.952 We have some fresh feedback here. This one shared by Patrick about last week's Apple Talk discussion. 00:47:00.917 --> 00:47:03.931 Hi, it's great you were talking about Apple Talk. 00:47:03.931 --> 00:47:12.405 Back in 1990, 1991, through at least the 99 or so, we used Apple Talk to connect a blend of Macs 00:47:12.811 --> 00:47:20.591 from the old Plus to a souped-up SE, Quadra 609, LC3, Performa 475, 00:47:20.591 --> 00:47:23.511 and eventually the Power Computing and Radius clones. Thank you. 00:47:24.524 --> 00:47:29.325 We ran PhoneLine up in the attic and had nice wire mold for desktop connections. 00:47:29.708 --> 00:47:31.089 We used it to share files, etc. 00:47:31.689 --> 00:47:36.959 And we also ran NetStickies to send instant messages to others in the office. 00:47:36.959 --> 00:47:40.370 Oh my god, yes! I forgot about NetStickies! 00:47:40.695 --> 00:47:46.369 It was great, but it was slow at big file transfers. We replaced it all with 00:47:46.369 --> 00:47:53.379 Cat5 Ethernet around 1998-99 and had to get adapters for the Macs to plug in. 00:47:54.029 --> 00:47:58.989 As a side note, my old office was in the country, and it took quite a few years 00:47:58.989 --> 00:48:00.200 to get broadband internet. 00:48:00.502 --> 00:48:05.519 So we used Starband satellites for internet for a while until Tom Warner put 00:48:05.519 --> 00:48:09.047 a microwave link from the closest road to our office. 00:48:09.552 --> 00:48:15.129 They finally put in a hard link once the company that sold those links went 00:48:15.129 --> 00:48:17.110 out of business, and they just couldn't get them anymore. 00:48:17.394 --> 00:48:20.483 The 90s were a fun time for computing and networking. 00:48:21.063 --> 00:48:25.028 Signed, Patrick, web developer and ham radio operator, KC2BQZ. 00:48:27.025 --> 00:48:32.739 Patrick, that brings me back so much. In my high school years and in my elementary 00:48:32.739 --> 00:48:36.979 school years, I lived in rural areas that did not have any broadband. 00:48:36.979 --> 00:48:42.268 We had dial-up, and we often didn't even have the V.2 support for 56K. 00:48:42.964 --> 00:48:47.599 So we didn't even get true 56K. You know, we maybe got 48.8 if we were lucky, 00:48:47.599 --> 00:48:52.392 but often got 36.6 kilobytes per second for our internet connection. 00:48:52.548 --> 00:48:55.679 And I was so desperate for high-speed internet that me and a buddy started a 00:48:55.679 --> 00:48:57.848 business and began the process... 00:48:58.719 --> 00:49:02.867 of talking to the neighborhood to deploy our own WISP, to just create our own WISP. 00:49:02.867 --> 00:49:03.117 Wow. 00:49:03.117 --> 00:49:06.254 I can see why, though, the exact speeds were burned into your head. 00:49:06.997 --> 00:49:07.707 You were desperate. 00:49:09.287 --> 00:49:11.127 You were going to do whatever it took. 00:49:11.127 --> 00:49:15.557 Yep. Yeah, we never got there. We never got there because a couple of the key 00:49:15.557 --> 00:49:20.372 houses, while we were getting it set up, got that Time Warner satellite internet, 00:49:20.627 --> 00:49:21.765 and they're like, ah, we don't need it anymore. 00:49:22.270 --> 00:49:25.230 Thanks, kid. And I'm like, ah, but I needed your trees. 00:49:26.327 --> 00:49:30.134 So it never worked out. And then, you know, now it's just a problem of the past, I suppose. 00:49:30.697 --> 00:49:35.297 But that's fun, Patrick. Yeah, the file transfer rate on AppleTalk, 00:49:35.297 --> 00:49:38.177 I want to say, was pretty bad. I seem to recall it was pretty bad, 00:49:38.177 --> 00:49:39.417 but you didn't have huge files back then. 00:49:40.403 --> 00:49:41.947 All right, Brent, we got another one from Brett. 00:49:42.232 --> 00:49:47.520 We do. Brett sent one in here. He talks about an AI-built spud router. 00:49:48.107 --> 00:49:48.722 Okay. 00:49:48.861 --> 00:49:50.917 Brett says, I've been— What's that. 00:49:50.917 --> 00:49:51.427 You ask? 00:49:51.867 --> 00:49:55.377 Exactly. I've been listening to the show for a while and wanted to reach out 00:49:55.377 --> 00:49:56.878 and share a project I've been working on. 00:49:57.307 --> 00:50:02.532 I built a router out of a le potato single board computer using AI agents. 00:50:03.078 --> 00:50:07.057 It was supposed to be a simple router configured via a basic Ansible role. 00:50:07.057 --> 00:50:11.267 And well, there is no Ansible and I took it way too far. 00:50:11.988 --> 00:50:16.537 Now it's got a web UI, a TUI, some VLANs, firewall, tail scale, 00:50:16.537 --> 00:50:23.577 wire guard, nebulas on there, DNS over HTTPS and OTA updates with auto rollback. 00:50:23.577 --> 00:50:24.467 Guys, look at this. 00:50:24.467 --> 00:50:25.227 That's a sweet setup. 00:50:25.567 --> 00:50:31.456 Look at this. So he created a web UI. Nice. Right. Created a TUI. Oh, yeah. And an MCP. 00:50:32.549 --> 00:50:34.493 Modern day awesome right here. 00:50:34.493 --> 00:50:35.853 That is sophisticated. 00:50:37.373 --> 00:50:38.513 You guys a little jealous? 00:50:39.113 --> 00:50:40.533 I actually am a little jelly. 00:50:41.853 --> 00:50:44.293 AGPL3, Python, some JavaScript. Nice. 00:50:44.813 --> 00:50:48.646 This looks great. I don't know. Something about having all three. 00:50:49.204 --> 00:50:50.213 However you want to use it. 00:50:50.213 --> 00:50:54.724 So perfect. It's so perfect. I love also the ginormous disclaimer. 00:50:55.466 --> 00:50:59.613 Let's be real. This entire project was coded by AI. So put that out there too. 00:50:59.613 --> 00:51:01.683 I think in this day and age, people want to know that. 00:51:01.683 --> 00:51:02.049 Mm-hmm. 00:51:02.467 --> 00:51:06.023 They want to know that. And, you know, he's sitting on top of a bunch of really 00:51:06.023 --> 00:51:10.043 solid Linux technologies, right? He's sitting on top of Nebula and WireGuard 00:51:10.043 --> 00:51:12.353 and, of course, the IP stack and Linux and all that. 00:51:12.353 --> 00:51:14.803 I see there's this Flake.Nix in here. 00:51:14.803 --> 00:51:15.743 Oh, man. 00:51:15.743 --> 00:51:16.473 Oh, sexy. 00:51:17.013 --> 00:51:20.543 If this isn't our speed, I don't know what is. That is great. 00:51:20.543 --> 00:51:23.981 I feel like listeners are really just making software for us now. It's really nice. 00:51:24.375 --> 00:51:26.899 Spud Router. It's a great name, too. I love it, Brett. 00:51:27.753 --> 00:51:32.113 Brett does have a couple more things here. Gary says, I love the AI content 00:51:32.113 --> 00:51:35.153 on the show and genuinely enjoy 00:51:35.153 --> 00:51:38.318 hearing about the agents and the crazy things you're doing with them. 00:51:38.962 --> 00:51:44.709 I had a bunch of agents coding, fixing bugs, doing all that from Cloud Code and OpenCode. 00:51:44.930 --> 00:51:48.703 I also got a lot of work done with my OpenCode Go subscription, 00:51:48.703 --> 00:51:50.665 which I learned about from the show. So thank you. 00:51:51.060 --> 00:51:55.059 Oh, good, nice. For AI, I would have never had the time to do any of this. 00:51:55.361 --> 00:51:56.110 Isn't that the thing? 00:51:56.243 --> 00:52:00.403 Is it perfect? No. but I'm at the point where I'm comfortable taking it to our 00:52:00.403 --> 00:52:04.771 RV, which sits on a site over an hour away connected via Starlink. 00:52:05.375 --> 00:52:08.393 If the potato survives that, I'll call it a win. 00:52:08.811 --> 00:52:09.839 That is great. 00:52:11.361 --> 00:52:14.421 That is a great example of, like, yeah, there's a lot of stories. 00:52:14.421 --> 00:52:18.281 The Financial Times just ran an outdated piece about the curl developer complaining 00:52:18.281 --> 00:52:20.252 about too many slop bug reports. 00:52:21.128 --> 00:52:25.751 And the slop bug reports and the load it puts on projects is a real issue, 00:52:25.751 --> 00:52:29.001 and I hope it's one that we solve and we create tooling and culture around. 00:52:29.001 --> 00:52:30.121 Like, that is a downside, right? 00:52:30.481 --> 00:52:34.071 And there is a way to responsibly use these tools and a way to not responsibly use them. 00:52:34.071 --> 00:52:37.131 For sure. Also, the curl developer did an update a couple months ago, 00:52:37.131 --> 00:52:42.971 so it's not really a problem anymore. But the upshot is there's so much more 00:52:42.971 --> 00:52:44.098 free software being created. 00:52:44.428 --> 00:52:49.011 And people that have never had the ability to do it are creating software that 00:52:49.011 --> 00:52:53.670 is genuinely useful for them, which was always one of the core goals of free software. 00:52:54.454 --> 00:52:57.014 And I mean, just think about, if we think back to sort of, you know, 00:52:57.403 --> 00:53:01.661 Computer Chronicles sort of era. How long has this idea of like a normal user 00:53:01.661 --> 00:53:06.069 can sort of customize and tweak software and build something with some widgets or whatever? 00:53:06.273 --> 00:53:09.911 it didn't end up being this like you know whizzy wig gooey thing that. 00:53:09.911 --> 00:53:10.821 It wasn't hyper card. 00:53:10.821 --> 00:53:13.831 No it wasn't hyper card but we're kind of getting there. 00:53:14.551 --> 00:53:16.884 Yeah we are and now it's just plain english. 00:53:17.389 --> 00:53:19.229 Have you seen this late potato before. 00:53:19.781 --> 00:53:20.881 No what is late potato. 00:53:20.881 --> 00:53:24.861 Well that's what he built on it's a hardware so it's yeah. 00:53:24.861 --> 00:53:26.191 It's kind of rings a bell actually. 00:53:26.191 --> 00:53:33.991 Late potato aml s905 xcc which i guess um some Google and Amazon use it for 00:53:33.991 --> 00:53:35.395 some things, supposedly. 00:53:35.691 --> 00:53:39.971 A long-term supported SoC family. Support for the latest, well, 00:53:39.971 --> 00:53:44.526 I don't know when, but it had some support for Android, TV, Linux, Uboot, Kodi. 00:53:45.008 --> 00:53:45.937 Looks a lot like a Pi. 00:53:46.308 --> 00:53:46.575 Yeah. 00:53:47.057 --> 00:53:54.401 It's got the GPIO headers, four USB ports, Ethernet port, SD micro. It's got HDMI. 00:53:55.173 --> 00:53:59.079 It's about the footprint of, oh, it's got an EMMC connector. 00:53:59.821 --> 00:54:01.036 VP9. 00:54:01.436 --> 00:54:02.632 I like that. 00:54:02.847 --> 00:54:05.081 Oh up to two gigs ddr3 so not a. 00:54:05.081 --> 00:54:09.319 Lot of ram for a router though yeah it's got an oh what's this got ir2. 00:54:11.369 --> 00:54:13.812 Kind of fun little device. Never heard of it. Neat. 00:54:14.718 --> 00:54:19.093 Okay, I want one. Do we know what the cost is? Purchase. I'm just curious what 00:54:19.093 --> 00:54:20.800 it cost is compared to. Oh, it's on Amazon. 00:54:21.525 --> 00:54:24.172 I'm curious what the cost is compared to. $65. 00:54:24.341 --> 00:54:25.456 Oh, wow. That's not bad. 00:54:25.973 --> 00:54:28.079 $60 on Amazon US, I think. 00:54:30.001 --> 00:54:33.813 You know, I was just, I wonder, I was just talking about, I want to set up a 00:54:33.813 --> 00:54:38.262 VDO thing. And I wonder if this, hmm. Interesting. All right. 00:54:38.494 --> 00:54:39.933 Is there a buy it now button there, Chris? 00:54:42.193 --> 00:54:44.963 Brett, you're tempting me I'm going to hold off, I'm going to look into it more 00:54:44.963 --> 00:54:50.003 after the show But that is really great Oh man, great emails, 00:54:50.003 --> 00:54:53.575 thank you guys very much And we do have some great boosts too, let's do those, 00:55:01.372 --> 00:55:04.781 And as we do, we'll start with a baller boost. And Greg, the lawyer, 00:55:04.781 --> 00:55:08.106 is back with 100,000 Satoshis. 00:55:16.123 --> 00:55:20.791 All right, Greg. I love the land before time. The title is A Chef's Kiss, 00:55:20.791 --> 00:55:24.371 and it took me back to a student magazine in college where the final layout 00:55:24.371 --> 00:55:27.499 involved making an ad hoc land at someone's apartment with our Macs. 00:55:27.946 --> 00:55:30.821 A borrowed laser writer and a mess of Apple Top. 00:55:32.401 --> 00:55:35.772 I bet there was no network experts, but it all worked. Good times. 00:55:36.085 --> 00:55:38.381 There's some exciting too. It's kind of the same. We were just talking about 00:55:38.381 --> 00:55:41.681 like you, you could build this system just with being a computer user. 00:55:41.681 --> 00:55:42.336 Connect them up. 00:55:42.992 --> 00:55:46.491 You know, you know, we should also mention that a Jupiter garage, 00:55:46.491 --> 00:55:50.411 we have a special Apple talk kind of retrospective. 00:55:50.411 --> 00:55:50.691 Right. 00:55:50.691 --> 00:55:52.513 Well, I guess it's a memorial sticker. 00:55:52.721 --> 00:55:53.121 Yeah. 00:55:53.121 --> 00:55:57.221 And I think get it now. I still can not sure how long it'll be up there. 00:55:57.221 --> 00:56:00.385 But maybe we should pull it once Linux seven two releases. 00:56:01.401 --> 00:56:05.238 that's reasonable because that's when it's officially gone from our lives and 00:56:05.644 --> 00:56:07.071 never gone from our hearts yeah 00:56:07.071 --> 00:56:09.321 Jupiter Garage good plug thank you Brantley we need to do more of that. 00:56:11.124 --> 00:56:15.396 Turd Ferguson boosts in with 50,675 sats, 00:56:20.792 --> 00:56:27.688 The thing about Apple Talk is after about 32 nodes, it started to get pretty dicey. 00:56:27.990 --> 00:56:33.023 Now, do IPX? It was the corporate king in the 80s and 90s, and for a reason. 00:56:33.822 --> 00:56:37.652 Turds and IPX, Dan, who knew? I love what you find out with the boost. 00:56:37.652 --> 00:56:46.763 Yes, I mean, God, I hated IPX. I hated it. The thing, too, was I discovered IPX. 00:56:46.891 --> 00:56:50.832 So I grew up in an Apple talk world and then Microsoft, there's a long story, 00:56:50.832 --> 00:56:56.372 but Microsoft came in and kind of rushed the high school I was at and just flooded 00:56:56.372 --> 00:56:57.632 it with Microsoft technology. 00:56:57.632 --> 00:57:01.902 And so over summer, we transitioned to a bunch of NetBui and all this kind of stuff. 00:57:01.902 --> 00:57:03.102 That happened all over too. 00:57:03.102 --> 00:57:06.432 And there was, yeah. And they're in the background where these really obnoxious 00:57:06.432 --> 00:57:09.751 network servers I constantly had to deal with. So my perspective was like these 00:57:10.076 --> 00:57:14.282 nagging, aging network servers that use this fricking IPX protocol. 00:57:15.973 --> 00:57:20.182 and i know the perspective was wrong because i i don't know if i don't know 00:57:20.182 --> 00:57:23.192 if it's true the number was 32 but i do remember that when you started to get 00:57:23.192 --> 00:57:26.212 like a classroom full of these apple talk things it just started to fall apart 00:57:26.212 --> 00:57:28.216 because all the broadcast and it was such low bandwidth and, 00:57:28.663 --> 00:57:33.042 like i think like 300 kilobits was the file transfer for local talk speed, 00:57:33.916 --> 00:57:35.702 and ipx didn't have these limitations, 00:57:36.762 --> 00:57:43.042 so i really hated it back in the day so i don't think we'll even an episode on it but unless we. 00:57:43.042 --> 00:57:44.762 Use it to do another place more starcraft i. 00:57:44.762 --> 00:57:48.772 Guess you know you know i never realized i felt so strong about network protocols 00:57:48.772 --> 00:57:51.362 until we did last week's episode you. 00:57:51.362 --> 00:57:53.467 Always had it out for tcpip and i never knew why. 00:57:53.728 --> 00:57:58.216 Yeah well it's a scam i should have never won apple talk you know it was routable. 00:57:59.719 --> 00:58:02.842 Well anonymous comes in with a row of mcducks, 00:58:06.029 --> 00:58:10.667 Ooh, just testing this new Web Boost functionality. What a great idea to help, 00:58:11.283 --> 00:58:12.618 to let us help with the show. 00:58:13.673 --> 00:58:18.183 Thank you, Anonymous. Yes, the Web Boost, we did have a problem because, 00:58:18.183 --> 00:58:22.533 like, I think we, like, reached a new echelon of our ZapRite subscription. 00:58:22.533 --> 00:58:23.513 Is that right? 00:58:23.953 --> 00:58:24.871 Good problem to have. 00:58:25.063 --> 00:58:29.913 But it's great because they let you renew with sets. So it's a virtuous circle. 00:58:29.913 --> 00:58:31.463 So I was able to top it off. 00:58:31.463 --> 00:58:33.453 So there was a brief little outage there. Sorry about that. 00:58:33.473 --> 00:58:35.443 Yeah, but we're learning. It's new. And it's just, that's just the, 00:58:35.443 --> 00:58:40.123 it's been a success and it's working well. And I really appreciate boost.jupiterbroadcasting.com. 00:58:40.123 --> 00:58:42.853 Yes, you, yes, you can boost in from the web. 00:58:42.853 --> 00:58:44.596 Shout out to BJ for helping us troubleshoot. 00:58:44.875 --> 00:58:49.420 Magnolia Mayhem comes in with a row of duckroos. That's 2,222 Satoshis. 00:58:50.477 --> 00:58:53.723 Here's my request to have a massive community run classic protocol network full 00:58:53.723 --> 00:58:58.193 of Apple Talks, Telnet, Gopher, et cetera. Maybe we could use Nebula as a backbone. 00:58:59.133 --> 00:59:01.942 If people get scared about scalability and security, who's with me? 00:59:02.296 --> 00:59:06.873 Here's my question. Could we work a BBS into this? We really should do a BBS. 00:59:07.293 --> 00:59:09.034 How are we going to coordinate if we don't have one? 00:59:09.034 --> 00:59:09.970 Have done, will do. 00:59:10.295 --> 00:59:15.293 I would love to do like a retro Linux BBS and then we do an episode on it and 00:59:15.293 --> 00:59:17.028 then afterwards the audience can go check it out. 00:59:17.277 --> 00:59:21.043 I was for a while playing with this idea of like, could you fuse AppleTalk and 00:59:21.043 --> 00:59:23.113 then, but like make Nebula the transport. 00:59:23.113 --> 00:59:23.453 Right? 00:59:23.453 --> 00:59:26.173 And then especially because like the lighthouses have the DNS where they kind 00:59:26.173 --> 00:59:30.315 of know some of the names so you could skip some broadcasts and use that as like a source. 00:59:31.193 --> 00:59:32.403 They would be terribly hacky, of course. 00:59:32.403 --> 00:59:37.014 I think mayhem, it's a good idea. I think we should focus on the achievable. 00:59:37.541 --> 00:59:40.133 Gopher is probably pretty achievable, so you can do that over IP. 00:59:40.133 --> 00:59:43.743 Telnet would be achievable, and I think a BBS. The AppleTalk stuff would be 00:59:43.743 --> 00:59:47.306 a lot harder and wouldn't really produce great results, but we could do it. 00:59:48.108 --> 00:59:51.813 I think we should, if we got a BBS running a Linux-like classic one, 00:59:51.813 --> 00:59:53.779 I'd do an episode on that. You bet. 00:59:55.509 --> 00:59:58.457 The facial hair boosts in with 6,000 sets. 01:00:03.770 --> 01:00:07.585 With what seems to be the return of single-use devices, such as the rise of 01:00:07.585 --> 01:00:12.785 modded iPods and handheld gaming devices, and even some going back to pocket 01:00:12.785 --> 01:00:16.603 cameras, I was wondering what y'all's take on this was. 01:00:16.806 --> 01:00:20.045 You know, it's funny you bring this up, the facial hair, because I just pulled 01:00:20.045 --> 01:00:25.515 out an old Kodak pocket cam that we used to use before. There's a more popular 01:00:25.515 --> 01:00:28.788 brand, I'm blanking on the name, but we used to use these before we had camera phones. 01:00:29.293 --> 01:00:33.855 and they were just little 1080p pocket cameras and they could save to an SD 01:00:33.855 --> 01:00:37.913 card and they have like a fold-out USB port you can plug in as well. 01:00:38.627 --> 01:00:42.778 The optics are horrible, but the dedicated functionality is actually pretty cool. 01:00:43.347 --> 01:00:46.675 And it makes me wonder if I would enjoy carrying a dedicated camera again. 01:00:47.706 --> 01:00:51.605 I can see dedicated camera would be good. A dedicated music player though, 01:00:51.605 --> 01:00:53.105 for me, those days are long gone. 01:00:53.105 --> 01:00:54.504 Yeah, I don't know if I need that one. 01:00:55.276 --> 01:01:00.425 In the days of like when digital was first coming out, when I was entering the photography world. 01:01:01.342 --> 01:01:05.415 There was this nostalgia to using film and everyone agreed that using a film 01:01:05.415 --> 01:01:09.102 camera without all these like digital buttons and numbers and things, 01:01:09.514 --> 01:01:13.427 using a film camera made you take photos in a very different way. 01:01:13.920 --> 01:01:17.955 And almost everybody appreciated that you kind of took better photos because 01:01:17.955 --> 01:01:21.838 you only had a limited number of them. The technology sort of vanished. 01:01:22.425 --> 01:01:26.955 Of course, digital one, because it's better in innumerable other ways. 01:01:26.955 --> 01:01:31.515 but there's something about having a single use device that I think gets us 01:01:31.515 --> 01:01:35.195 back to that because if, well, I've struggled with this this week is like each 01:01:35.195 --> 01:01:39.955 device I use, I, they're my beloved devices like this framework in front of me. 01:01:39.955 --> 01:01:43.798 Right. And, and my pixel that runs graphene and I freaking love those things, 01:01:44.013 --> 01:01:46.393 except I can do anything on them. 01:01:47.142 --> 01:01:50.845 And so when I sit down to try to do a thing, there's a hundred other things 01:01:50.845 --> 01:01:54.395 that kind of are just right there. And so a dedicated device I think is a really 01:01:54.395 --> 01:01:56.675 nice way to get away from that, At least for a short time. 01:01:56.915 --> 01:01:59.845 It brings its own intentionality. If you feel your camera's hanging on there, 01:01:59.845 --> 01:02:01.347 you're like, well, I should probably be using this. 01:02:01.457 --> 01:02:04.515 I would like a dedicated messaging device and take messaging off my phone. 01:02:04.515 --> 01:02:07.981 That would be incredible. But you know where it's not really in the scope of the question? 01:02:09.258 --> 01:02:13.483 But this is what came to my mind. Television. I just want my TV to be a dumb 01:02:13.483 --> 01:02:18.103 display with like four or five HDMI inputs and scale it well, 01:02:18.103 --> 01:02:20.363 have a good picture. I don't even want a speaker built in. 01:02:20.383 --> 01:02:21.903 Yeah, but how am I going to show you ads? 01:02:23.097 --> 01:02:26.553 It drives me crazy when I get like a new terms of service. And when you select 01:02:26.553 --> 01:02:28.623 all, it's like, I'm going to turn your microphone on and I'm going to monitor 01:02:28.623 --> 01:02:29.401 everything you're doing. 01:02:30.365 --> 01:02:31.643 How else can they know what you're watching? 01:02:32.902 --> 01:02:34.068 Yeah. Brownlee, are you up? Is that you? 01:02:34.794 --> 01:02:40.773 Faraday Futura comes in with another row of ducks. Sorry, between the character 01:02:40.773 --> 01:02:43.885 limit and, well, my dyslexia, I wrote the wrong thing. 01:02:44.361 --> 01:02:48.363 You don't need the mesh. Think of Laura like writing a letter, 01:02:48.363 --> 01:02:50.839 and the mesh network is USPS. 01:02:51.118 --> 01:02:55.675 You can write a letter to your wife, but you don't need USPS to get it to her. 01:02:56.087 --> 01:03:01.543 Yeah, that makes sense. I was thinking more about your last boost and thinking about, 01:03:04.160 --> 01:03:10.592 I have a lot of coyotes on the farm. and they're out during the day now a lot. 01:03:11.132 --> 01:03:16.493 And I'm trying to figure out a way where I could have motion sensors all over 01:03:16.493 --> 01:03:19.247 the farm, which is a massive territory to cover. 01:03:20.170 --> 01:03:24.037 So it can't be Wi-Fi and LTE would be too expensive for the amount of sensors I need. 01:03:24.362 --> 01:03:28.583 So I need something that could wake up and ping me when it detects motion in 01:03:28.583 --> 01:03:31.333 an area and then maybe in some places activate a camera, depending. 01:03:31.891 --> 01:03:37.493 And I'm wondering, I think that's where Alora kind of low frequency radio network 01:03:37.493 --> 01:03:39.687 could be perfect, a mesh network throughout the farm. 01:03:40.663 --> 01:03:43.176 I gotta research that more. Thank you very much, Faraday. 01:03:43.536 --> 01:03:49.013 I think you just put little mesh-tastic collars on them all and then once they 01:03:49.013 --> 01:03:50.084 get within range, you'll know. 01:03:50.571 --> 01:03:52.359 Take them with a drone, call it good. 01:03:53.265 --> 01:03:54.383 Gotta maintain your fleet. 01:03:55.500 --> 01:03:58.936 Dodge is here with 5,747 Satoshis. 01:04:01.154 --> 01:04:03.818 Keep the Tesla check. This must be a, were we talking about Tesla in the show? 01:04:03.818 --> 01:04:04.994 It must be on the bootleg. Pre-show, I think? Yeah. 01:04:05.320 --> 01:04:07.788 Keep it coming. Always fun to see what's going on on that side of the fence. 01:04:07.788 --> 01:04:10.848 To totally hear you on chargers, I've gotten to the point where I assume the 01:04:10.848 --> 01:04:13.905 charger won't work if it's not an EVgo, EA, or Tesla. 01:04:14.282 --> 01:04:17.394 Or it has a perfect score on PlugShare. Oh, I should check PlugShare. 01:04:17.963 --> 01:04:21.778 EVgo is currently my favorite. They support plug and run by non-Tesla and Tesla. 01:04:21.778 --> 01:04:22.885 Super clean experience. 01:04:23.292 --> 01:04:27.838 And they're rolling out next. That's good. So I just did a car camping trip. 01:04:27.838 --> 01:04:31.258 That's what Dajja was referring to. is I just took a car camping trip in an 01:04:31.258 --> 01:04:33.311 EV, which had a lot of pros to it. 01:04:33.538 --> 01:04:38.358 But two of the charging, they were run, both of them, I think, 01:04:38.358 --> 01:04:39.447 were run by the local city. 01:04:40.138 --> 01:04:43.618 And one just had, one was out of order. I suppose that happens. 01:04:43.618 --> 01:04:46.408 The other one, somebody was camping at, like, not actually camping, 01:04:46.408 --> 01:04:49.508 but like they plugged their car into a fast charger when they have a slow charging 01:04:49.508 --> 01:04:50.801 car and they just left for a few hours. 01:04:51.226 --> 01:04:53.495 So I wasn't able to use that charger. So then I stopped at another one. 01:04:54.238 --> 01:04:57.468 And this one had two chargers right next to each other. And in the middle, 01:04:57.468 --> 01:05:01.878 it had a tap to pay box. So you could just plug in and use tap to pay like, you know, a gas pump. 01:05:01.878 --> 01:05:02.498 It was ideal. 01:05:02.498 --> 01:05:05.150 Seems like the way to do it. Right. Um, 01:05:06.363 --> 01:05:10.358 So I do the tap to pay. That one was out of order too. So, but there's another 01:05:10.358 --> 01:05:14.067 handle. So I grabbed that handle and my transaction still valid. So I go to charge. 01:05:14.560 --> 01:05:17.608 Oh no, no. This handle is actually on this other post over here, 01:05:17.608 --> 01:05:21.188 which has a QR code system. You have to scan and create an account for and then 01:05:21.188 --> 01:05:24.365 prepay $45, even though I only need $5 of charging. 01:05:24.806 --> 01:05:28.638 And then I can charge, even though like the payment, there's a one payment terminal, 01:05:28.638 --> 01:05:30.848 but there's two different payment systems depending on which plug I use. 01:05:31.548 --> 01:05:34.318 It's just all over the place. Like some of them, like the tap to pay thing is 01:05:34.318 --> 01:05:37.078 perfect. It should just be like a gas pump. I walk up. 01:05:37.078 --> 01:05:39.138 You have my credit card now. Tell me from what I charge. 01:05:39.138 --> 01:05:41.918 And they're getting more and more to that. But some of them, 01:05:41.918 --> 01:05:45.188 like, they want you to, like, they envision you charging frequently at this 01:05:45.188 --> 01:05:48.612 one spot, so they want to sell you on a membership program and all of this stuff. 01:05:49.948 --> 01:05:52.612 It's early days. He says, if you're able to plan your route beforehand, 01:05:53.070 --> 01:05:55.638 you can install and register all the apps for chargers along your route before 01:05:55.638 --> 01:05:58.330 you leave. It makes things way easier, especially for the plug-and-runs. 01:05:58.793 --> 01:06:01.248 And you've got it. All you have to do is tap and enter the stall ID. 01:06:01.655 --> 01:06:04.048 You know, I've been also using a better route planner, ABR. 01:06:04.368 --> 01:06:04.766 Oh, yeah. 01:06:05.022 --> 01:06:07.959 Really good for that, too. Thank you, Daja. Appreciate that. 01:06:08.232 --> 01:06:09.044 And thanks for being a member. 01:06:09.846 --> 01:06:13.298 Poppy comes in with $69.69. It's a time travel boost. 01:06:13.298 --> 01:06:13.848 Ooh. 01:06:15.819 --> 01:06:16.730 Tasty time travel. 01:06:17.026 --> 01:06:21.047 Loved the holiday home lab, hearing about community setups. Hope you revisit 01:06:21.047 --> 01:06:25.211 this in the future so I can get mine in there when I'm not six months behind on listening. 01:06:26.454 --> 01:06:27.187 Well, Pabby. 01:06:27.747 --> 01:06:28.613 What an idea. 01:06:28.735 --> 01:06:32.947 When the holidays come around, I think maybe we might repeat that. Yes? 01:06:33.547 --> 01:06:37.744 Yeah, I'm wondering if we should, should we put a call out for the home lab stuff early? 01:06:38.347 --> 01:06:40.957 We should think about what the right process is at the very least. 01:06:40.957 --> 01:06:44.017 Yeah. Definitely earlier is better. 01:06:44.017 --> 01:06:47.787 I think we'd have to revisit our submission form and make sure there's no changes 01:06:47.787 --> 01:06:51.264 we need to make. But I guess nothing would prevent us from... 01:06:51.932 --> 01:06:53.587 We should probably give a listen to the episode. 01:06:53.587 --> 01:06:56.037 Yeah, yeah. I think this would be a good idea, though, because we're pretty 01:06:56.037 --> 01:06:57.067 bad about getting it out. 01:06:57.167 --> 01:06:59.867 We're at a best... You know, we have six months, basically. 01:06:59.867 --> 01:07:02.377 Yeah, this would be the time. That should be enough time. Let's try to remember 01:07:02.377 --> 01:07:04.457 to look into that. I think that is a good idea. 01:07:04.457 --> 01:07:05.491 Someone set it around. 01:07:06.025 --> 01:07:07.737 Thank you, and thanks for the time travel boost. 01:07:08.765 --> 01:07:12.968 Ensign X sent in 8,472 Satoshis. 01:07:15.301 --> 01:07:19.481 Well, I've tried Tailscale and Nebula recently, but I've landed on NetBird. 01:07:20.027 --> 01:07:24.407 It's the perfect compromise between the two, open source, self-hosted, and damn fast. 01:07:24.727 --> 01:07:29.222 I'm also really looking forward to the reverse proxy feature that they have in beta. 01:07:29.831 --> 01:07:33.737 By the way, this is a Star Trek boost. Can you guess which episode? 01:07:33.737 --> 01:07:36.925 Oh, yes, I can. Very easily, actually. That's not hard at all. 01:07:39.514 --> 01:07:43.561 Uh, that would be, uh, probably the end of season three, the beginning of season 01:07:43.561 --> 01:07:48.361 four of Star Trek Voyager, uh, and it is a nod to Species 8472, 01:07:48.361 --> 01:07:50.300 the only actual threat to the Borg. 01:07:50.898 --> 01:07:51.561 Wow. 01:07:52.389 --> 01:07:54.801 Right? I'm guessing, right? It's gotta be Species 8472. 01:07:54.801 --> 01:07:57.451 Absolutely. Which episode? There's a couple of good ones. 01:07:57.451 --> 01:07:59.731 Well, I mean, they're introduced, I think, at the end of season three, 01:07:59.731 --> 01:08:02.451 the beginning of season four, when they're phasing out Kes and bringing in Seven of Nine. 01:08:02.461 --> 01:08:06.041 Yeah, Scorpion. Yeah, Scorpion. Yeah, yeah. Scorpion is something, right? 01:08:06.041 --> 01:08:07.766 But then later, there's that one with the whole... 01:08:07.888 --> 01:08:09.521 Where they do the fake Starfleet? 01:08:09.521 --> 01:08:09.734 Yeah. 01:08:10.233 --> 01:08:13.031 That's where it gets a little silly and they're no longer such a big threat. 01:08:13.031 --> 01:08:17.421 Voyager had the worst tendency of like setting up the biggest enemy ever and, 01:08:18.181 --> 01:08:19.920 then a season later, they're just like buddies. 01:08:20.379 --> 01:08:22.631 Like they're allies. You know, same with the Herosian. 01:08:22.631 --> 01:08:22.875 Yeah. 01:08:23.148 --> 01:08:27.321 What was the ones with the parts? The parts? The phage. Oh, yeah. 01:08:27.721 --> 01:08:28.561 Blankin. Yeah, the phage. 01:08:28.561 --> 01:08:29.601 They're suffering from the phage. 01:08:29.961 --> 01:08:30.401 Vidians. 01:08:30.401 --> 01:08:33.731 The Vidians. Super creepy. And then by the end, like not so threatening. 01:08:33.731 --> 01:08:35.881 They're like, oh, I guess we have sympathy for them now. 01:08:35.881 --> 01:08:41.011 Yeah, yeah. So, but yes, I think we got it. I hope. Let us know how we did. 01:08:41.882 --> 01:08:49.120 Netbug 105 comes in with 4,300 and no, 4,531 Satoshis. I got it. 01:08:49.961 --> 01:08:52.841 I did my first members boost a few weeks ago and decided to get Albie set up 01:08:52.841 --> 01:08:55.463 and give some extra support. Oh, that's great. Thank you. 01:08:55.846 --> 01:08:58.365 How do most people boost the show? Fountain? Long live Apple talk. 01:08:58.946 --> 01:09:03.294 I would say Fountain is probably the most popular. The web boost is picking up Steam. 01:09:04.020 --> 01:09:09.471 and then there's a lot of people using AlbiHub with the podcast index or Castamatic 01:09:09.471 --> 01:09:14.602 or just the various apps of choice so there's a long AlbiHub tale too but yeah, Fountain, 01:09:15.497 --> 01:09:19.471 AlbiHub in some sense and then I'd say the web boost at this point thank you 01:09:19.471 --> 01:09:20.993 for the support and being a member. 01:09:21.852 --> 01:09:24.256 Tom Motto boosts in with 2000 sats, 01:09:25.689 --> 01:09:29.095 Love the Apple Talk episode. And remember, if you want to play with it again 01:09:29.095 --> 01:09:32.915 in five to ten years, it'll still be supported in NetBSD. 01:09:34.710 --> 01:09:35.585 Okay. 01:09:35.585 --> 01:09:36.275 Good point. 01:09:36.275 --> 01:09:37.490 That's true. Okay, good. 01:09:37.850 --> 01:09:39.725 That could be a good excuse to use NetBSD. 01:09:39.725 --> 01:09:40.776 That could be, right? 01:09:41.176 --> 01:09:43.595 Because it sounds like we're going to be needing to have Apple Talk around if, 01:09:43.595 --> 01:09:45.325 you know, ma'am takes off. 01:09:45.325 --> 01:09:45.954 That's true. 01:09:46.256 --> 01:09:50.563 Well, the Zor Alchemist is here with $10 of fiat boosts. 01:09:54.474 --> 01:09:57.685 This one's for you, Chris. Chris, if you're looking for a, quote, 01:09:57.685 --> 01:10:01.585 modern web browser for macOS Classic, check out MacSurf. 01:10:01.765 --> 01:10:07.268 It supports HTTPS, CSS, and JavaScript on macOS 9. 01:10:07.675 --> 01:10:11.035 While it won't work for every single site, it'll be far more functional than 01:10:11.035 --> 01:10:15.099 a 1990s release of Nexscape. Also, thanks for the episode. 01:10:17.375 --> 01:10:19.665 I was hoping somebody would send something like that in. Thank you, 01:10:19.665 --> 01:10:24.306 Zor. I had not heard of that. That's incredible. That is great. 01:10:24.921 --> 01:10:28.399 Love it. Greg the lawyer sends in a members boost. 01:10:29.531 --> 01:10:32.075 Using my free member boost to encourage others to become a member. 01:10:32.075 --> 01:10:35.425 Greg, you're just so great. Recurring revenue keeps the lights on. 01:10:35.425 --> 01:10:37.455 Money talks. Tell the world you want more Linux unplugged. 01:10:38.475 --> 01:10:39.195 Can't argue with that. 01:10:39.515 --> 01:10:42.125 Don't let the fate of the Linux magazines happen to Linux podcasts. 01:10:42.125 --> 01:10:43.881 Thank you, Greg. I appreciate that. 01:10:44.328 --> 01:10:47.247 Adversary 17 comes in with a member boost. 01:10:47.358 --> 01:10:47.615 Oh. 01:10:47.955 --> 01:10:50.230 To say boosty, boosty, boosty, boost. 01:10:52.349 --> 01:10:55.460 There you go. Thank you, adversaries. 01:10:57.995 --> 01:11:00.882 Well, Anonymous is here, too, with a members boost. 01:11:04.198 --> 01:11:07.959 You guys have a good solution for AI-assisted research? For example, 01:11:08.737 --> 01:11:13.840 what is the best insert product category here? Or teach me more about insert topic here. 01:11:14.095 --> 01:11:17.882 Ideally, it would be something interactive that would prompt me and let me refine 01:11:17.882 --> 01:11:20.642 and dive deeper into specific aspects. 01:11:21.653 --> 01:11:28.462 Okay, I will say that I have enjoyed using the Hermes LLM wiki skill that is 01:11:28.462 --> 01:11:32.921 very easy to get working with the Hermes agent. I know that's a big lift to get to this point. 01:11:33.496 --> 01:11:36.972 But Brent poised a question to me. He said, Chris, you've got family in Canada 01:11:36.972 --> 01:11:40.612 and Canada has national health care and you haven't had health care for almost 01:11:40.612 --> 01:11:43.016 15 years or whatever the hell it's been. I don't know. A hundred. 01:11:43.387 --> 01:11:46.492 What if you had dual citizenship? Could you get access to Canadian health care? 01:11:46.492 --> 01:11:51.062 So I says to the agent, I says, hey, agent, I want you to research dual citizenship 01:11:51.062 --> 01:11:53.887 in the context of access to Canadian health care in the process. 01:11:54.462 --> 01:11:59.924 And what LMWiki does is not just a storage structure, but in the case of Hermes, 01:12:00.319 --> 01:12:02.943 it's also sort of a research protocol. 01:12:03.280 --> 01:12:06.202 And so it launches about four subagents. It can do more or less. 01:12:06.202 --> 01:12:10.492 And they go off on particular tasks, and they look up individual things, 01:12:10.492 --> 01:12:13.891 and it compiles a very, very, very comprehensive data set. 01:12:14.292 --> 01:12:18.412 And then it gives me kind of a human-readable overview and then saves the entire 01:12:18.412 --> 01:12:21.571 output into an obsidian vault for me for retrieval later. 01:12:21.960 --> 01:12:25.052 And I found it to be extremely, extremely useful. I've also had to do research 01:12:25.052 --> 01:12:29.402 on different car oil types and I thought it was very comprehensive because it's, 01:12:30.167 --> 01:12:36.194 It is essentially a research methodology that it's following and then a way 01:12:36.194 --> 01:12:39.684 to store and collect that information that is retrievable and you can build on top of it. 01:12:39.684 --> 01:12:44.354 So this might be something and look into two things, LMWiki, 01:12:44.354 --> 01:12:47.374 and then you can look into the Hermes Agent LMWiki stuff. 01:12:47.374 --> 01:12:52.104 I think even just beyond that, it's not that the inner tabs aren't useful, 01:12:52.104 --> 01:12:55.494 but really having a harness where it can have real file access. 01:12:55.494 --> 01:12:58.534 It can build iteratively on some artifacts and stuff. 01:12:58.674 --> 01:12:59.914 You can ask it questions and follow-ups. 01:12:59.914 --> 01:13:03.384 Yeah. And then it has robust support, I think, especially for sub-agents where 01:13:03.384 --> 01:13:07.554 you can do stuff like have editors or a council or like fact check each other. 01:13:07.554 --> 01:13:11.814 Like a lot of those patterns can go a long way beyond just you got one, 01:13:11.814 --> 01:13:13.931 you know, it did a couple searches and wrote a few markdown files. 01:13:14.076 --> 01:13:16.914 Yeah, you know, just to cap that off, because that's such a great point, 01:13:16.914 --> 01:13:19.492 Wes, is one of the other things that Hermes has recently introduced is this, 01:13:20.333 --> 01:13:25.134 aggregation model, where when it's trying to figure out research or make decisions, 01:13:25.134 --> 01:13:28.564 it can aggregate it through three or four models and then have an ultimate decision. 01:13:28.564 --> 01:13:31.519 And it's actually a fascinating way to use it for research as well. 01:13:32.095 --> 01:13:33.446 So there could be something there. Yeah. 01:13:35.409 --> 01:13:37.184 Ryan from Boise is here with a free 01:13:37.184 --> 01:13:40.814 member boost. Open source software and camping, my two favorite things. 01:13:41.104 --> 01:13:44.114 As you talked about in the pre-show, finding spots to camp can be really difficult. 01:13:44.114 --> 01:13:45.521 Here's a pick I found this week. 01:13:45.891 --> 01:13:49.144 It's called Campy. It's up on GitHub. You also mentioned last week you didn't 01:13:49.144 --> 01:13:52.574 take your CPAP. Get a DC plug from Amazon. I really should do that. 01:13:52.574 --> 01:13:54.006 First, I got to get my hose replaced. 01:13:54.738 --> 01:13:57.804 Tried to do that. Amazon screwed that up. Campy, the campsite finder, 01:13:57.804 --> 01:14:01.704 a tool to help you book campsites online. Finding reservations sold out at campgrounds can be tough. 01:14:02.116 --> 01:14:05.944 This is where Campy comes in. It searches thousands of campgrounds across the 01:14:05.944 --> 01:14:09.680 world via APIs. I was just thinking about building this. 01:14:09.976 --> 01:14:13.874 I was just going to build this. I was thinking to myself, why am I doing this? 01:14:13.874 --> 01:14:17.694 I could have the bot do it. It already can be. That's awesome. 01:14:17.694 --> 01:14:19.414 It's MIT licensed. 01:14:19.414 --> 01:14:23.125 99% Python. Continuously checks for cancellations and availabilities. 01:14:23.780 --> 01:14:29.330 Oh, my God. This is so perf. Thank you, Brian. Definitely going to use that. 01:14:29.719 --> 01:14:33.306 As a slight correction here, Chris, you know how you call me Brentley? 01:14:34.194 --> 01:14:35.976 Well, this is actually called Camply. 01:14:36.813 --> 01:14:38.204 Okay, what did I say? Campy? 01:14:38.234 --> 01:14:41.764 Well, it's not that campy, but it's campy. 01:14:42.205 --> 01:14:47.121 All right, thanks. I'll take the next one, too. Mountain Man comes in with a member boost. 01:14:47.678 --> 01:14:52.055 Someone else already mentioned Voron, but I also had to mention Hevort printers. 01:14:52.316 --> 01:14:55.494 You could probably have AI create a home assistant dashboard using the Moonraker 01:14:55.494 --> 01:14:58.924 API from Clipper and also had to share the Ellis Tuning Guide. 01:14:58.924 --> 01:15:00.884 I don't know if I knew what any of that means. 01:15:00.884 --> 01:15:02.394 It's a bunch of 3D printer stuff. 01:15:03.003 --> 01:15:07.504 Remember you were asking for tips and setups I am such a 3D printer noob the 01:15:07.504 --> 01:15:12.174 wife and I though were watching 3D printing videos last night like ASMR, 01:15:13.694 --> 01:15:20.034 you never know it could be in our future Papa John's here with the I definitely 01:15:20.034 --> 01:15:23.524 want to hear about Chris's Nextcloud bacon all your pictures are stored directly 01:15:23.524 --> 01:15:27.332 in Nextcloud I do backups but I don't have to use them I would rather not love the show guys, 01:15:29.236 --> 01:15:31.784 We should have talked about my NextCloud woes in the pre-show today while we 01:15:31.784 --> 01:15:32.603 were talking about yours. 01:15:33.230 --> 01:15:34.814 There's still time. 01:15:34.814 --> 01:15:36.399 Next week. Somebody remind me, 01:15:38.466 --> 01:15:43.196 I have no hard feelings towards the NextCloud project. I still think it's a great project. 01:15:43.585 --> 01:15:47.314 Personally, I've decided I will never be using it again after the most severe 01:15:47.314 --> 01:15:50.284 data loss that I've ever experienced. 01:15:50.784 --> 01:15:51.392 Oh, no. 01:15:51.567 --> 01:15:56.004 So, for me, it just, like, it crossed a line, and I just can no longer use it. 01:15:56.004 --> 01:16:00.709 But I will try to remember to tell that story in next week's member feed if somebody reminds me. 01:16:00.930 --> 01:16:02.694 I think we might have skipped Sam H's here. 01:16:02.694 --> 01:16:03.924 Oh, grab it for me then. Sorry about that. 01:16:03.924 --> 01:16:07.304 Yeah, just getting started with Hermes. Love the clinker therapy recording. 01:16:07.304 --> 01:16:11.944 I wondered, though, why Codex CLA instead of ChatGPD OAuth, the provider in Hermes? 01:16:15.477 --> 01:16:22.054 So I do that as well. But so there's a matter of perspective that influences 01:16:22.054 --> 01:16:25.044 the way the agents interact and audit the system. 01:16:25.044 --> 01:16:29.174 And so Codex is coming from a view outside the Hermes harness, 01:16:29.174 --> 01:16:33.684 outside the system, without all of the soul and the agent and all of the stuff 01:16:33.684 --> 01:16:35.634 that the skills, everything that agent's loading. 01:16:35.634 --> 01:16:41.529 And what you will find is you can have the exact same model and... 01:16:42.375 --> 01:16:45.638 the one that's loaded up with all your agent harness stuff may produce code, 01:16:46.433 --> 01:16:49.858 slightly differently than the exact same model without all that stuff. 01:16:50.311 --> 01:16:52.491 And depending on how you prompt the model with all that stuff, 01:16:52.491 --> 01:16:55.861 it will take more of a supervisory, auditorial, critical role, 01:16:56.239 --> 01:16:59.711 and it has a different perspective, and it actually will find stuff that the 01:16:59.711 --> 01:17:03.169 same exact model created that is a little off and needs to be corrected. 01:17:03.866 --> 01:17:07.476 It's the state of the technology right now. And so by using the two together, 01:17:07.668 --> 01:17:08.956 you kind of have that coverage, right? 01:17:09.242 --> 01:17:11.421 Because the Hermes agent and that harness, it knows my systems, 01:17:11.421 --> 01:17:13.941 it knows my host, machines it knows where the credentials are it knows all that 01:17:13.941 --> 01:17:17.321 stuff and knows how to build and iterate really quickly and it has a task management 01:17:17.321 --> 01:17:19.980 system and a progress tracking system and all of that and it can do it iteratively, 01:17:20.462 --> 01:17:23.971 then i can hit it with codex or you know whatever open code using whatever model 01:17:23.971 --> 01:17:28.631 you want on the side and it's taking more of a third party meta role and it 01:17:28.661 --> 01:17:31.382 tends to find stuff that the original harness may be missed. 01:17:31.846 --> 01:17:35.071 Yeah you can also do something where like you can have specific like dynamic 01:17:35.071 --> 01:17:38.181 sub agents where you've crafted a prompt in a similar way so you don't inject, 01:17:38.841 --> 01:17:41.393 as little context as you can with just a prompt or something. 01:17:41.690 --> 01:17:46.061 But having a separate harness can be nice too for auditing, for checking, 01:17:46.061 --> 01:17:49.511 for like verifying. And if something gets messed up and you need it to, 01:17:49.511 --> 01:17:52.104 you want someone to help you repair it, super handy for that too. 01:17:52.272 --> 01:17:55.331 Also, depending on how you have Hermes configured, it may commit things to memory. 01:17:55.331 --> 01:17:57.931 So if you're working through iteratively trying to fix stuff every now and then, 01:17:57.931 --> 01:18:01.161 it will commit the wrong thing and it'll update the skill to the wrong thing, 01:18:01.868 --> 01:18:03.406 as you're going through the iteration process. 01:18:03.731 --> 01:18:07.313 You avoid that if you're sort of hitting it from the side with a codex or something like that. 01:18:07.603 --> 01:18:10.441 And then you can do a handoff prompt at the end of your session with Codex or 01:18:10.441 --> 01:18:13.501 OpenCode to say, all right, give me a handoff prompt that tells my agent to 01:18:13.501 --> 01:18:16.403 store what's changed and been updated durably since the last time we communicated. 01:18:16.752 --> 01:18:19.361 And, of course, those side tools can read those chat sessions so it actually 01:18:19.361 --> 01:18:23.253 knows the last thing you said to the agent so it can craft a specific response. 01:18:23.520 --> 01:18:27.741 You then give to the original Hermes or OpenClaw agent, and it can update its 01:18:27.741 --> 01:18:29.261 skills and its memory and all of that. 01:18:29.261 --> 01:18:31.804 A blessed little artifact. And then you can have, like, I mean, 01:18:31.978 --> 01:18:35.491 can be throwaway or semi-permanent separate context that you used to craft that. 01:18:35.491 --> 01:18:35.808 Yeah. 01:18:36.586 --> 01:18:42.231 Feels like we need another clanker string. Well, guys, we have King Arthur as 01:18:42.231 --> 01:18:43.906 a member here with a members boost. 01:18:44.086 --> 01:18:45.555 We need a King Arthur sound. 01:18:47.603 --> 01:18:50.749 Once we verify he's a certified king, we've got to get a good. 01:18:50.749 --> 01:18:58.685 Like, King Arthur says, what is the story of removing the 5,000 Jar Jar boost clip? 01:18:59.561 --> 01:19:01.785 Oh, I just don't have it on the button. Where is it? 01:19:03.625 --> 01:19:05.179 Back by popular demand. 01:19:05.179 --> 01:19:07.607 Hold on. I do have it somewhere. 01:19:10.864 --> 01:19:15.484 Nope, that's it. I don't think that's it. I have it. I have it. I do have it. 01:19:15.815 --> 01:19:19.119 i just don't have it on the active because i kind of rotate through you know 01:19:19.119 --> 01:19:20.089 because otherwise i'd play the 01:19:20.089 --> 01:19:23.779 same ones all the time but it is here somewhere it is i think this is a. 01:19:23.779 --> 01:19:25.469 Vote to bring it a little further in the. 01:19:25.469 --> 01:19:31.539 Front all right i'll try to find it oh that one yeah we have several in the 01:19:31.539 --> 01:19:33.289 5 000 category we kind of rotate through. 01:19:34.552 --> 01:19:35.574 Is it over 5 000. 01:19:36.393 --> 01:19:37.989 Oh i see send us a boost sound effect, 01:19:41.537 --> 01:19:42.771 Yeah, nice. 01:19:42.771 --> 01:19:47.934 Except there's Boost Mobile and also Nestle's Boost Drinks that we can pull from. 01:19:48.294 --> 01:19:49.231 We choose to Boost. 01:19:49.231 --> 01:19:50.101 Good idea. 01:19:50.601 --> 01:19:54.041 And Eric the Magician wraps us up with a member Boost. I tried out Hyperland 01:19:54.041 --> 01:19:56.990 by copying Hypervibe's Nix configs to my system. Looking great! 01:19:57.652 --> 01:20:01.461 Not where I expected that to go. It's been a good starting point for me. I'm glad to hear that. 01:20:01.461 --> 01:20:02.171 Eric. Awesome. 01:20:02.171 --> 01:20:05.151 I thought that was going to go the other direction, and I am pleased to hear 01:20:05.151 --> 01:20:06.231 that's working well for you. 01:20:06.667 --> 01:20:09.041 Shout out to everybody who streamed us sats as you listened to the show. 01:20:09.041 --> 01:20:13.575 17 of you streamed us 24,671 Satoshis. 01:20:15.061 --> 01:20:17.521 When you combine that with our member boost, the Fiat boost, 01:20:17.521 --> 01:20:24.633 and you convert it all to Satoshis, it brings us to a grand total of 254,045 Satoshis this episode. 01:20:25.434 --> 01:20:29.115 Not too bad at all. Thank you very much. We had nine member boosts, 01:20:29.364 --> 01:20:32.562 one Fiat boost, and 38 unique SatSenders. 01:20:34.841 --> 01:20:38.552 You are the small crew that made the show possible along with our members this week. 01:20:39.754 --> 01:20:43.881 Tens of thousands and tens of thousands of Linux users will enjoy this episode. 01:20:44.264 --> 01:20:45.221 And this is the career that made 01:20:45.221 --> 01:20:48.734 it possible. It is a value for value podcast. We are in the ad winter. 01:20:49.216 --> 01:20:51.171 We don't have the ad deals we used to have. I think they're gone, 01:20:51.171 --> 01:20:52.583 but the support continues. 01:20:52.943 --> 01:20:56.141 We really do appreciate it. You can boost at boost.jupiterbroadcasting.com or 01:20:56.141 --> 01:21:01.505 become a member and set your support on autopilot at linuxunplugged.com slash membership. 01:21:03.646 --> 01:21:06.955 I got a couple of pics for you boys. Kind of went along a theme this week. 01:21:06.955 --> 01:21:08.475 I see that. 01:21:08.475 --> 01:21:14.066 It is a YouTube theme. One way to privately watch YouTube and one way to watch YouTube with others. 01:21:14.518 --> 01:21:18.865 So let's start with Open Together, where you can enjoy YouTube as well as other 01:21:18.865 --> 01:21:23.289 video streaming services. Real-time synchronized playback with an optional voting system. 01:21:23.673 --> 01:21:26.930 No sign-up required. It's all open source. It's got text chat. 01:21:27.302 --> 01:21:31.729 You can play videos from YouTube, Vimeo, any MP4 served over HTTP, 01:21:32.112 --> 01:21:34.445 any HLS or Dashstream, as well as some other ones. 01:21:34.445 --> 01:21:35.635 Oh, that is handy. 01:21:36.015 --> 01:21:38.135 Yeah, and the vote system's neat, too, if you're, like, you know, 01:21:38.135 --> 01:21:40.617 hanging out with a crew online and you're watching some videos. 01:21:40.762 --> 01:21:41.632 Oh, DJ mode. 01:21:41.835 --> 01:21:46.765 And they also let you provide your own custom JSON file with an MP4 if you want 01:21:46.765 --> 01:21:52.035 to enable, like, all the extra features, like, multiple different bit rates and text chat and. 01:21:52.035 --> 01:21:52.595 Stuff like that. 01:21:52.595 --> 01:21:53.985 Fancy. Oh, I miss JSON. 01:21:54.316 --> 01:21:54.376 On uh. 01:21:55.315 --> 01:21:56.775 Yeah hope he's doing well. 01:21:57.875 --> 01:22:00.295 So we gonna watch some academy together then. 01:22:00.735 --> 01:22:03.645 Well yeah i guess you could yeah you could watch an mp4 with this you could 01:22:03.645 --> 01:22:07.627 you could watch academy we should probably try it yeah so that's enjoy together 01:22:08.016 --> 01:22:12.295 and uh open together dot tube or open together tube.com i'll put a link to it 01:22:12.295 --> 01:22:14.715 in the show notes it's also on github it is open source, 01:22:15.175 --> 01:22:17.936 as you would imagine It is AGPL3.0. 01:22:18.871 --> 01:22:22.053 This next one doesn't sound like a YouTube tool, but it is. 01:22:22.512 --> 01:22:27.010 It's called TypeType, a privacy-respecting platform to watch YouTube. 01:22:27.533 --> 01:22:29.955 And it plays from a couple of other platforms I've never heard from either. 01:22:29.955 --> 01:22:35.791 But it stores history. It has subscriptions, playlists, favorites, watch later. 01:22:36.895 --> 01:22:41.138 You can resume videos that you are watching just like you can with actual YouTube. 01:22:41.300 --> 01:22:46.605 And I have to say the YouTube style UI from like maybe a year or two ago before 01:22:46.605 --> 01:22:48.533 some, like they really crammed it full of shorts. 01:22:48.893 --> 01:22:51.255 It looks like that. It looks like it's a self-help. 01:22:51.295 --> 01:22:52.805 It does look like classic sort of, yeah. 01:22:52.805 --> 01:22:58.235 Classic YouTube. And you get all the classic features of YouTube without YouTube. 01:22:58.235 --> 01:22:59.586 I mean, you can pull in the videos. 01:22:59.702 --> 01:23:00.811 I think I'm getting this. 01:23:01.072 --> 01:23:03.885 It's doing the watch history. It's doing the recommendations. 01:23:03.885 --> 01:23:04.935 It's doing the playlist. 01:23:04.935 --> 01:23:06.485 It's got subscriptions. Oh my gosh. 01:23:06.495 --> 01:23:07.928 You can import as well. 01:23:09.770 --> 01:23:11.546 This is what I've been looking for for years. 01:23:12.633 --> 01:23:15.196 I think it has a lot of potential. I think it has a lot of potential. 01:23:16.305 --> 01:23:19.203 Yeah, you can import from YouTube your playlist. 01:23:19.203 --> 01:23:20.533 That's, wow. 01:23:20.533 --> 01:23:24.153 Yeah. So this is, I think, you know, there's a lot of options these days, 01:23:24.153 --> 01:23:27.020 but I think, it's just a weird name, but I think it has a lot of potential. 01:23:27.513 --> 01:23:30.923 It's called TypeType, and it's MIT licensed, and it's available on GitHub. 01:23:30.923 --> 01:23:32.743 You did some great searching this week. 01:23:32.743 --> 01:23:34.630 I like these ones. It also has an API. 01:23:35.437 --> 01:23:35.753 Perfect. 01:23:36.273 --> 01:23:41.803 And it can download, I love this, it can download the videos in the background 01:23:41.803 --> 01:23:46.234 with a separate download thread so when you click play they're playing locally, 01:23:46.948 --> 01:23:49.073 they can also do the streaming if it needs to but it can. 01:23:49.590 --> 01:23:53.593 Now what's the mobile story here does it behave okay as a web app. 01:23:53.593 --> 01:23:58.042 You know I actually don't know like in the mobile because I on the mobile app, 01:23:58.750 --> 01:24:04.423 if I'm on Android I'm not happy with the YouTube app anymore it's gotten real it. 01:24:04.423 --> 01:24:05.593 Has been it has for. 01:24:05.593 --> 01:24:08.883 Sure so I would actually like to try it on mobile Well, on iOS, 01:24:08.883 --> 01:24:11.905 the app isn't as bad, but the font's all screwed up. It's the weirdest thing. 01:24:13.495 --> 01:24:17.065 So I haven't tried it on mobile. I don't know. But in the GitHub project, 01:24:17.541 --> 01:24:20.983 they have screenshots that make it look like the YouTube. I mean, 01:24:20.983 --> 01:24:25.053 it almost looks like YouTube.com and in the mobile version of it, too. 01:24:25.053 --> 01:24:26.398 That's very nice. 01:24:26.793 --> 01:24:30.423 So the screenshots of the mobile one look really good. So if I'm to go by that, 01:24:30.423 --> 01:24:31.564 I'd say it's pretty tight. 01:24:32.412 --> 01:24:35.243 I'm very impressed with both. These will put links to those in the show notes. 01:24:35.243 --> 01:24:40.481 And then, Brentley, you have a sneaky third pick that's on the same theme. 01:24:40.614 --> 01:24:44.693 I have two sneaky picks. One is on the same theme. Yeah, yeah, 01:24:45.173 --> 01:24:46.541 yeah. I kept one from you. 01:24:46.953 --> 01:24:52.874 So, it's funny that you linked to these this week because I stayed up far too late last night. 01:24:53.843 --> 01:24:59.150 installing me tube on my little nas over here and it's to solve a very specific 01:24:59.150 --> 01:25:01.750 problem for me basically this thing is a, 01:25:02.250 --> 01:25:07.660 little container that you can self-host and it's just a very simple web ui for 01:25:07.660 --> 01:25:11.804 youtube dlp and it just makes downloading, 01:25:12.401 --> 01:25:17.430 like individual youtube videos much much much easier than you know reaching 01:25:17.430 --> 01:25:19.925 for your terminal especially when you want to save the file on a, 01:25:20.662 --> 01:25:22.560 different computer than the one you're on, et cetera. 01:25:22.560 --> 01:25:23.940 So that's the problem I was trying 01:25:23.940 --> 01:25:26.930 to save. And it turns out MeTube was exactly what I was looking for. 01:25:27.261 --> 01:25:34.730 A little self-hosted thing I can throw on the NAS. And then I have a plugin on my Firefox or Chrome. 01:25:35.050 --> 01:25:40.620 And you click the plugin and it either pulls the page you're on because you're 01:25:40.620 --> 01:25:44.490 on YouTube, or you could just paste a URL and it just sends, 01:25:45.030 --> 01:25:49.639 offloads that download off to that little tool. And it throws it in a folder. 01:25:49.940 --> 01:25:53.760 if you want, and it scrapes all the metadata and stuff to make it nice and friendly 01:25:53.760 --> 01:25:56.050 for Jellyfin if you want. I love that. 01:25:57.853 --> 01:26:00.670 So I looked at doing it a few other ways. I was like, maybe I could do a skill 01:26:00.670 --> 01:26:03.368 for my robot. And that seems wrong. 01:26:03.589 --> 01:26:06.740 And then I looked at Pinch Flat too, and I was like, well, actually, 01:26:06.740 --> 01:26:09.370 this is not what I want. I just want to send like very specific videos. 01:26:10.653 --> 01:26:15.070 But it turns out MeTube can also download videos from, you know, 01:26:15.070 --> 01:26:19.400 playlists and channels in real time as well. So it's a nice, simple. 01:26:19.400 --> 01:26:24.270 Little tool that is nice again me tube m-e-t-u-b-e honorable mention however 01:26:24.270 --> 01:26:28.194 to pinch flat because it is kind of in this category and i just want to follow up still using it, 01:26:29.012 --> 01:26:33.431 it downloads my youtube videos saves them to a jellyfin youtube library folder 01:26:33.865 --> 01:26:36.110 and i watch them offline so that way i'm, 01:26:43.781 --> 01:26:47.496 what's this about a sneaky third pick yeah yeah. 01:26:47.496 --> 01:26:49.606 What's going on yeah is this embargoed. 01:26:50.046 --> 01:26:52.316 Smuggled in this is too many picks we can't. 01:26:52.316 --> 01:26:55.606 Put this in the show okay i'll tell you uh tell us about it. 01:26:56.166 --> 01:26:57.706 We'll cut all this from the show but you can tell us. 01:26:57.706 --> 01:27:01.616 Okay okay okay yeah yeah well i forgot to tell you that uh yeah i'm a bit embarrassed 01:27:01.616 --> 01:27:05.456 about this but it's also a success like uh i installed me tube using podmas 01:27:05.456 --> 01:27:10.171 first podman like success that i had it was so easy, 01:27:11.314 --> 01:27:13.781 it was so easy easy. 01:27:14.706 --> 01:27:16.186 What's the secret pick? Come on. 01:27:16.186 --> 01:27:19.636 I have a secret pick. Um, it's, it's, it's actually on topic and I am embarrassed 01:27:19.636 --> 01:27:22.813 that we didn't talk about it, but it's called MCP dash NixOS. 01:27:23.184 --> 01:27:26.816 Oh, I use this in, you know, I use open code. 01:27:26.816 --> 01:27:33.216 I use this in my open code. And the reason I came to want it is that it just 01:27:33.216 --> 01:27:37.506 makes looking up NixOS things much, much, much easier. 01:27:37.506 --> 01:27:40.356 So it says it's a real up to the second information about NixOS, 01:27:40.356 --> 01:27:44.790 including packages, options, home manager configurations nix darwin flakes, 01:27:45.319 --> 01:27:49.786 and all of that stuff and you get it super fast just right punched into your 01:27:50.126 --> 01:27:54.020 uh lm or the robot your of your choice and i found, 01:27:54.676 --> 01:27:59.636 for manipulating nix os configs it made it far more accurate far faster really 01:27:59.636 --> 01:28:03.676 and just smooth oh yeah very much so and it solved the problem i was having 01:28:03.676 --> 01:28:06.309 which was sometimes it just gives the wrong answer. 01:28:06.983 --> 01:28:10.346 Okay well i feel bad now because i've been using this for a while i assumed 01:28:10.346 --> 01:28:11.426 you guys were already well brad. 01:28:11.426 --> 01:28:12.386 Is using which is great all. 01:28:13.506 --> 01:28:16.027 Right all right okay all right we gotta wrap up the show oh. 01:28:16.311 --> 01:28:16.700 Wait. 01:28:20.007 --> 01:28:23.635 Nothing. All right. So that's all the picks. We'll have links to those in the 01:28:23.635 --> 01:28:26.775 show notes. There's totally not a secret pick in the show notes. 01:28:26.775 --> 01:28:27.815 No, I didn't hear anything. 01:28:27.815 --> 01:28:33.353 No, I didn't hear anything about that. So don't go to linuxunplugged.com slash 657 for that at all. 01:28:33.759 --> 01:28:37.635 You know, also, we always love a pick. If there's an app or especially a self-hosted 01:28:37.635 --> 01:28:40.685 tool that we could share with the audience that you've been using that we haven't 01:28:40.685 --> 01:28:43.122 mentioned on the show, let us know. 01:28:43.529 --> 01:28:47.355 Send us an email, linuxunplugged.com slash contact or boost.jupiterbroadcasting.com. 01:28:47.355 --> 01:28:50.054 We have an unhealthy obsession with finding good picks. 01:28:50.210 --> 01:28:52.495 Too many apps. Too many apps. 01:28:52.495 --> 01:28:55.980 Producer Jeff wants to correct us here. He figured out why it's called TypeType. 01:28:56.474 --> 01:28:59.313 It's because it uses PipePipe, the extractor, on the back end. 01:28:59.580 --> 01:29:03.605 Ah, it's cute. Thank you, PJ. Look at him putting it all together. 01:29:03.605 --> 01:29:06.302 See? That's great. Like a good producer do. 01:29:06.894 --> 01:29:09.335 All right, well, that's it for us. We're going to wrap it up here. 01:29:09.335 --> 01:29:12.835 But, of course, we want to let you know that we do have a few extra bennies 01:29:12.835 --> 01:29:16.345 in the feed you might like to know about. We've got an MP4 version of the show, 01:29:16.345 --> 01:29:18.975 as well as some metadata you could always throw a bot at. 01:29:18.975 --> 01:29:23.195 Yeah. Speaking of JSON, we've got JSON right there in the RSS feed. 01:29:23.215 --> 01:29:23.715 How about that? 01:29:23.715 --> 01:29:24.635 So it's always with us. 01:29:24.635 --> 01:29:25.195 How about that? 01:29:25.195 --> 01:29:28.795 Yeah. Chapter info, find out where the good stuff is, jump right to the pics 01:29:28.795 --> 01:29:30.385 if you want. I don't know why, but you could. 01:29:30.385 --> 01:29:31.075 That's what I do. 01:29:31.075 --> 01:29:31.485 Yeah. 01:29:31.485 --> 01:29:32.527 I just skip to the pics. 01:29:32.725 --> 01:29:35.675 Or if you want to find all the details, download the transcript. 01:29:35.995 --> 01:29:39.505 Mm, that's pretty cool. And of course, we are live as well. You can make it 01:29:39.505 --> 01:29:42.355 a Tuesday on a Sunday, 10 a.m. Pacific, 1 p.m. Eastern. 01:29:46.338 --> 01:29:49.885 And if you want more show, remember we have the Luplug. It gets together every 01:29:49.885 --> 01:29:52.607 Sunday before we get started, and it keeps on going after the show. 01:29:52.891 --> 01:29:56.815 And our members get the bootleg, which is clocking it at two hours and 33 minutes 01:29:56.815 --> 01:29:59.503 right now. It's a lot of show. There's a lot of content in there. 01:29:59.881 --> 01:30:02.665 And a shout-out to everyone who contributes in some way or another, 01:30:02.665 --> 01:30:05.305 even if it's just listening and sharing it. We really do appreciate that. 01:30:05.305 --> 01:30:07.712 We don't mention it enough, but we really do appreciate it. 01:30:08.066 --> 01:30:11.305 Word of mouth is the number one way podcasts get shared. All right, 01:30:11.305 --> 01:30:14.861 that's it from us. Thanks so much for joining us on this week's episode of Your Unplugged Program. 01:30:15.314 --> 01:30:17.869 We'll see you back here next Tuesday, as in Sunday.