WEBVTT 00:00:11.389 --> 00:00:16.147 Hello, friends, and welcome back to your weekly Linux talk show. My name is Chris. 00:00:16.147 --> 00:00:16.947 My name is Wes. 00:00:16.947 --> 00:00:17.920 And my name is Brent. 00:00:18.500 --> 00:00:21.557 Well, hello, gentlemen. Coming up on the show today, we're chatting with John 00:00:21.557 --> 00:00:25.257 Seeger from Canonical about all of the big changes coming to Ubuntu. 00:00:25.257 --> 00:00:27.817 And then we're going to round out the show with some great picks and boosts 00:00:27.817 --> 00:00:30.186 and a little look at something special and a lot more. 00:00:30.575 --> 00:00:33.857 So before we get to that, we've got to do the right thing and say hello to our 00:00:33.857 --> 00:00:37.307 crew that's sticking with us through a long Sunday. Time-appropriate greetings. 00:00:37.307 --> 00:00:39.357 Virtual lug. Hello, mobile rope. Hello. 00:00:40.337 --> 00:00:41.807 Hello. That's better. 00:00:41.807 --> 00:00:43.212 There we go. Yeah, yeah. 00:00:43.804 --> 00:00:45.627 Been with us all day and we appreciate it. 00:00:45.842 --> 00:00:48.997 Also, you know who's been with us for a while? Our friends over at Defined Networking. 00:00:48.997 --> 00:00:52.808 Go to defined.net slash unplugged and check out Manage Nebula. 00:00:53.162 --> 00:00:56.657 When it comes to your network, when it comes to something as important as your 00:00:56.657 --> 00:01:02.193 mesh network, I want you, I implore you to own that stack. That's why I love Nebula. 00:01:02.576 --> 00:01:06.077 It's based on the open source decentralized VPN that they created many years 00:01:06.077 --> 00:01:08.549 ago to solve some very, very big problems. 00:01:08.979 --> 00:01:14.018 And it doesn't depend on any third party staying online or special dashboard, nothing like that. 00:01:14.384 --> 00:01:16.857 Because you can host your own dashboards. You can host your own, 00:01:17.177 --> 00:01:20.067 make dashboards for days if you want. You can make your own lighthouses. 00:01:20.067 --> 00:01:20.804 You can do the whole thing. 00:01:21.913 --> 00:01:24.397 And you don't have to worry about any third party. But I understand that can 00:01:24.397 --> 00:01:26.725 be, that can be a bit much. 00:01:27.079 --> 00:01:30.277 So I want you to check out Manage Nebula because Manage Nebula, 00:01:30.277 --> 00:01:33.637 you can start it with 100 hosts, absolutely free, no credit card required. 00:01:33.637 --> 00:01:37.766 And they now also will provide a lighthouse to really make things easy. It's great. 00:01:38.126 --> 00:01:41.907 So check it out at defined.net slash unplugged. You can come and go from the 00:01:41.907 --> 00:01:44.546 hosted lighthouse. You're going to really be impressed with the flexibility, 00:01:44.720 --> 00:01:47.193 the simplicity, the speed, and the security. 00:01:47.431 --> 00:01:53.172 Defined.net slash unplugged. Thank you to Defined for sponsoring the Unplugged program. 00:01:54.519 --> 00:01:58.959 Now, you know that it's reaching the end of the year when we make this announcement. 00:02:04.038 --> 00:02:09.959 Ladies and gentlemen, if you can believe it, the great holiday home lab is coming back, 00:02:12.397 --> 00:02:13.692 for a second year. 00:02:15.851 --> 00:02:19.839 Ladies and gentlemen, we want your home labs. We want them. We want your home labs. 00:02:20.054 --> 00:02:21.447 Mostly just your RAM, really. 00:02:22.928 --> 00:02:23.663 Send us your RAM. 00:02:26.289 --> 00:02:30.443 Just send RAM. We're going to have the criteria for you. We just want you to 00:02:30.443 --> 00:02:33.923 be ready for this. We're going to set up the submission page at linuxunplugged.com. 00:02:34.223 --> 00:02:36.076 Was it holiday? I think it was what it was. 00:02:36.639 --> 00:02:39.753 It's as we record, not live, but it should be live, hopefully, 00:02:39.753 --> 00:02:42.305 by the time you hear this, or there will be a placeholder there. 00:02:42.630 --> 00:02:46.583 And we'll have all the criterion for you, and we're going to have a few more 00:02:46.583 --> 00:02:48.934 details. We're changing things up just a little bit. 00:02:49.456 --> 00:02:54.396 And it will be our last episode of the year will be the great holiday home lab special. 00:02:54.742 --> 00:02:57.543 It's back. It's going to be fantastic. You're going to love it. 00:02:57.543 --> 00:03:00.635 It was a lot of fun last year, and we love senior setups. 00:03:01.029 --> 00:03:04.543 And we encourage messy setups. We also encourage pristine setups. 00:03:04.543 --> 00:03:06.167 We love all of the setups. 00:03:06.683 --> 00:03:11.623 And it turns out last year's episode was one of our most popular episodes of 00:03:11.623 --> 00:03:14.224 the year. So, you know, we got to do it again. 00:03:26.496 --> 00:03:29.983 So get ready get your home lab ready tidied if you need to or make a bigger 00:03:29.983 --> 00:03:34.193 mess and send it in we'll have more details and again when it's ready it'll 00:03:34.193 --> 00:03:35.613 be at linuxunplugged.com. 00:03:35.613 --> 00:03:40.893 Slash holiday yeah i think right that sends to the old google form right now so it's not Shh. 00:03:40.893 --> 00:03:43.723 No, it doesn't. No, I just think what we'll do is, before we leave, 00:03:43.723 --> 00:03:47.603 we'll just replace it with a standby page, and then when we have it ready, we'll... 00:03:47.643 --> 00:03:48.583 That makes perfect sense. 00:03:48.583 --> 00:03:49.222 Yeah, there you go. 00:03:53.488 --> 00:03:58.552 Thank you. Ubuntu has been in the news these last couple of weeks. 00:03:58.552 --> 00:04:00.976 And Canonical has been giving everybody a lot to talk about. 00:04:01.354 --> 00:04:05.800 First of all, Ubuntu 26.10, the stonking stingray, was released on October 15th. 00:04:06.561 --> 00:04:08.792 Very fancy. Got the new GNOME in there and all of that. 00:04:08.872 --> 00:04:09.832 Yeah, we played with a little bit. 00:04:10.752 --> 00:04:14.452 And in the past week, John Seeger and, 00:04:15.030 --> 00:04:21.452 Ubuntu announced plans to restart the Ubuntu core desktop with an aim to make 00:04:21.452 --> 00:04:26.373 the default Ubuntu desktop in the future eventually use Ubuntu Core one day. 00:04:26.820 --> 00:04:31.862 No timelines there yet, but that was the stated goal, which is no small thing. 00:04:31.862 --> 00:04:33.403 I think that means we better pay attention. 00:04:33.513 --> 00:04:38.932 That could be a huge, huge shift. So we wanted to have John back on the show 00:04:38.932 --> 00:04:40.764 to help sort through all of this. 00:04:41.687 --> 00:04:46.470 John joined Canonical back in March of 2021. It's been that long. 00:04:46.987 --> 00:04:52.146 As product lead and became VP of engineering back in February of 2022. 00:04:52.721 --> 00:04:57.341 He's, of course, a longtime Linux enthusiast, hands-on open source developer. 00:04:57.725 --> 00:05:02.092 John has also worked extensively with NixOS, Kubernetes, Rust, 00:05:02.092 --> 00:05:04.307 Snaps, and Cloud Automation. 00:05:05.167 --> 00:05:09.149 He's currently also helping to drive Ubuntu's modernization, 00:05:09.732 --> 00:05:14.396 including Rust adoption, security improvements, and that revival of Ubuntu Core 00:05:14.571 --> 00:05:16.012 desktop that you mentioned, Chris. 00:05:16.012 --> 00:05:20.882 That's especially exciting to me because I think I said I would try this for 00:05:20.882 --> 00:05:22.412 like a month when it came out. 00:05:22.772 --> 00:05:27.423 I think I remember something vaguely like that. So I'm counting on you, John. 00:05:31.085 --> 00:05:35.651 Back on the show right now, John Seeger returning. John, welcome back to the 00:05:35.651 --> 00:05:37.493 Unplugged program. We're thrilled to have you. 00:05:37.673 --> 00:05:39.508 Thank you very much for having me. I'm glad to be here. 00:05:39.943 --> 00:05:44.483 Well, your timing is perfect because you've been making a lot of news recently. 00:05:44.889 --> 00:05:48.951 And there's a couple of projects that we want to dig into. I thought maybe just 00:05:48.951 --> 00:05:53.051 because I think it's the topic du jour right now, let's start with just all 00:05:53.051 --> 00:05:54.611 of the security stuff going on. 00:05:54.611 --> 00:05:59.471 There's been a lot of discussion about the recent IPv4 vulnerability in the 00:05:59.471 --> 00:06:03.041 Linux kernel and all of that and I know you guys are still as we record now 00:06:03.041 --> 00:06:06.221 working on a fix how's all that going what's going on there. 00:06:07.672 --> 00:06:11.540 It has definitely been a pretty wild ride over the last few months. 00:06:11.540 --> 00:06:15.800 I think anybody who is shipping software at the moment is dealing with this, 00:06:16.480 --> 00:06:20.400 not least the kernel project itself, of course, but it is kind of replicated 00:06:20.400 --> 00:06:21.900 across all of the packages we maintain. 00:06:22.905 --> 00:06:25.850 The pace at which vulnerabilities are discovered and reported has obviously 00:06:25.850 --> 00:06:27.084 increased dramatically. 00:06:27.769 --> 00:06:31.600 The example you're showing there, of course, is one where we didn't cover ourselves 00:06:31.600 --> 00:06:37.340 in glory, but it is against a backdrop of quite an impressive story, 00:06:37.340 --> 00:06:40.560 I think. So the news on that one is the fixes are in proposed. 00:06:40.960 --> 00:06:44.987 There are some instructions out on a blog on Ubuntu.com that tell you how to get those fixes. 00:06:46.467 --> 00:06:49.430 One of the interesting stories that I heard from our kernel team, 00:06:49.430 --> 00:06:51.400 we've all just come back from two weeks in Mexico. 00:06:51.400 --> 00:06:54.656 We had a product roadmap sprint followed by an engineering sprint where we took, 00:06:55.660 --> 00:06:58.750 over 1,100 engineers to a place in Mexico, which was kind of wild. 00:06:58.750 --> 00:07:01.500 The whole company was only 500 when I joined five years ago. 00:07:02.480 --> 00:07:07.370 But there was an interesting statistic presented to me, which was that in the 00:07:07.370 --> 00:07:11.760 last six months, our kernel team have shipped more security patches than in 00:07:11.760 --> 00:07:13.621 the prior 20 years of Ubuntu. 00:07:14.800 --> 00:07:18.760 And so that's not an excuse for the vulnerability that we missed and perhaps 00:07:18.760 --> 00:07:22.510 were less timely than people would have liked. But it is to try and give some 00:07:22.510 --> 00:07:26.490 confidence that the machine is being built and the machine is mostly working. 00:07:26.490 --> 00:07:30.570 You have taken a lot of steps recently. I mean, just over the past year to sort 00:07:30.570 --> 00:07:31.889 of advance those timelines. 00:07:32.557 --> 00:07:35.400 I think maybe people don't appreciate that you're already shipping some of those 00:07:35.400 --> 00:07:37.996 things even if it may have not applied fully in this case. 00:07:38.728 --> 00:07:42.076 Yes, we are essentially now committed to shipping kernels on a much tighter 00:07:42.076 --> 00:07:46.866 timeline. And I think often the scale of the maintenance burden that our kernel 00:07:46.866 --> 00:07:52.462 team have is perhaps underappreciated. So for Ubuntu, we ship over 160 kernels. 00:07:54.076 --> 00:07:59.176 That is a combination of cloud kernels and OEM kernels and partner kernels. 00:07:59.176 --> 00:08:02.456 We've obviously got the vert kernels, all of the kernels, essentially. 00:08:02.976 --> 00:08:06.260 And we have to essentially keep all of them patched and up to date. 00:08:07.196 --> 00:08:12.988 I think the number I saw was something like 23,000 or 25,000 security patches in the last few months. 00:08:13.661 --> 00:08:17.196 And so the team has had to ramp up really fast. I think a year ago, 00:08:17.556 --> 00:08:20.302 it would have been fair to say that we were feeling the heat a little bit, 00:08:20.697 --> 00:08:26.160 but I am increasingly confident that team has built a machine that will serve us well. 00:08:26.816 --> 00:08:29.976 There will, of course, always be vulnerabilities that we miss. 00:08:30.516 --> 00:08:34.542 They've committed to a much tighter release cadence. And so they are essentially 00:08:34.873 --> 00:08:37.606 on a two-week release cadence for kernels, but staggered. 00:08:37.606 --> 00:08:38.636 So there are essentially new 00:08:38.636 --> 00:08:41.706 kernels dropping every week, but they kind of lag by a week, essentially. 00:08:41.706 --> 00:08:46.086 And that's because we run thousands of tests on quite literally thousands of 00:08:46.086 --> 00:08:49.696 real machines, like over 2,000 machines in a lab somewhere that are being driven 00:08:49.696 --> 00:08:52.739 autonomously through our kernel release and test QA process. 00:08:53.152 --> 00:08:56.526 And so the idea is that fresh kernels should be arriving near enough every week, 00:08:56.526 --> 00:08:59.176 which is something that Canonical has never committed to before. 00:08:59.176 --> 00:09:05.146 So imagine 164 kernels, thousands of tests over 2 000 machines essentially every 00:09:05.146 --> 00:09:09.686 week and so i don't want to make excuses for the vulnerability that got lots 00:09:09.686 --> 00:09:12.418 of attention this week that was obviously a miss on our part. 00:09:13.684 --> 00:09:17.946 And i think it's safe to say we could have communicated more effectively but 00:09:17.946 --> 00:09:21.076 i you know that's now on the way to fix and i hope that people hearing this 00:09:21.076 --> 00:09:21.967 will have a bit of faith that, 00:09:22.757 --> 00:09:25.868 you know going forward they are in safe hands we have some good numbers to support, 00:09:26.391 --> 00:09:31.376 i think the level of scrutiny that goes into our kernels perhaps we'll do some 00:09:31.376 --> 00:09:32.289 writing about that shortly. 00:09:33.194 --> 00:09:36.173 With the accelerated pace of the kernels that you mentioned, 00:09:36.173 --> 00:09:43.343 which is crazy numbers, is that, from a more philosophical perspective, a welcome change? 00:09:43.343 --> 00:09:49.993 Because all these bugs are being found that presumably existed and were undiscovered. 00:09:49.993 --> 00:09:50.997 How do you feel about that? 00:09:51.636 --> 00:09:54.043 How do I feel about it? I mean, I don't suppose it really matters whether it's 00:09:54.043 --> 00:09:55.863 welcome or not in reality. 00:09:56.263 --> 00:10:00.143 It's the reality that we're in, and we have to respond. I think the Kernel team 00:10:00.143 --> 00:10:01.887 is one of the largest teams at Canonical. 00:10:03.994 --> 00:10:07.326 And like I said, perhaps a year ago, we were feeling less confident. 00:10:07.472 --> 00:10:11.433 But with some collaboration from some of our partners, some pressure from some 00:10:11.433 --> 00:10:14.914 of our partners, some, I think, fair pressure from our partners, 00:10:15.332 --> 00:10:18.113 it has been very interesting to see that team step up. 00:10:18.113 --> 00:10:21.593 And I think despite the fact the workload has gone up because of the sheer volume 00:10:21.593 --> 00:10:26.173 of security vulnerabilities, I think even against that backdrop, 00:10:26.173 --> 00:10:28.773 the machinery they have built has allowed them to be more ambitious, 00:10:28.773 --> 00:10:30.442 if that makes sense, than they have been before. 00:10:30.610 --> 00:10:33.673 There's a lot of times, I think, where sort of having to adapt, 00:10:33.673 --> 00:10:38.043 move faster, automate more does sort of expose hidden bottlenecks in your process 00:10:38.043 --> 00:10:40.303 or things you have to change, things you've always wanted to change. 00:10:40.303 --> 00:10:45.673 That's right. You'll notice you might have seen that in the run up to 2610, 00:10:45.673 --> 00:10:48.673 we squeaked in the 7.3 kernel kind of at the last minute. 00:10:48.673 --> 00:10:53.143 We committed publicly to the 7.2 and we essentially switched fairly last minute 00:10:53.143 --> 00:10:57.620 to 7.3, which is, I think, a testament to the kernel team's confidence in their process. 00:10:57.892 --> 00:11:01.733 Well, why don't we talk about Ubuntu 26.10 really quick, since that is also 00:11:01.733 --> 00:11:05.166 the new release. And there's a couple of things in here that are pretty great. 00:11:05.596 --> 00:11:10.103 We've mentioned GNOME 51 on the show, of course, which has a few really nice 00:11:10.103 --> 00:11:12.463 things in there, including some nice remote desktop improvements. 00:11:13.090 --> 00:11:18.419 But there was a couple of items that I think we've been tracking for a while that jump out to us. 00:11:18.796 --> 00:11:22.263 Number one, obviously, is the transition to Rust Core Utils, 00:11:22.263 --> 00:11:24.276 I guess, is complete in this release. Is that true? 00:11:25.234 --> 00:11:29.092 That's right. So in 2604, it was complete apart from three utilities. 00:11:29.092 --> 00:11:33.222 And holding those three utilities back was kind of an abundance of caution. 00:11:33.802 --> 00:11:37.002 I don't think anyone would have got into real trouble, but we were aware of 00:11:37.002 --> 00:11:42.078 some slightly edge casey time of check, time of use errors. So we held those back. 00:11:42.519 --> 00:11:47.732 Those issues got fixed by the upstream. And so it felt like 2610 was the time 00:11:47.732 --> 00:11:49.009 to take the lead off and just commit. 00:11:49.421 --> 00:11:50.176 How's it been going? 00:11:50.640 --> 00:11:53.802 It's been hard. Core Utils has been hard. There's so many utilities. 00:11:54.162 --> 00:11:57.769 It's so baked into F1 shell scripts, I think it's been successful. 00:11:57.943 --> 00:12:00.682 I remain committed to it. I was reading an article today from somebody who I 00:12:00.682 --> 00:12:05.942 think was at the University of Toronto who was pretty upset that sudo-rs had 00:12:05.942 --> 00:12:07.498 broken one of their workflows. 00:12:08.702 --> 00:12:11.842 That's a slightly different prospect to core utils because with sudo-rs, 00:12:11.842 --> 00:12:16.142 the promise was never 100% compatibility. It was a modern reimplementation that 00:12:16.142 --> 00:12:19.038 skewed some of the choices that were made by the original project. 00:12:19.636 --> 00:12:24.592 Whereas in new utils, the goal is bug for bug, 100% compatibility. 00:12:24.592 --> 00:12:27.482 And that project has really risen to the challenge. The test coverage, 00:12:28.002 --> 00:12:32.232 the sort of test parity, if you will, between UUtils and GNU has continued to 00:12:32.232 --> 00:12:33.353 go up release after release. 00:12:33.638 --> 00:12:37.032 And what's also really pleasing is I consistently see Sylvester, 00:12:37.032 --> 00:12:40.472 who's the lead maintainer of UUtils, appearing as one of the top contributors 00:12:40.472 --> 00:12:44.432 to GNU CoreUtils as he works on his own project and discovers bugs and inconsistencies 00:12:44.432 --> 00:12:48.492 and maybe emissions in the docks and things like that. 00:12:48.492 --> 00:12:52.212 So I think it has gone, you know, it's been tough, but it's also been worth it. 00:12:52.212 --> 00:12:57.252 And I never expected such a transition to be very easy and very fast. 00:12:57.252 --> 00:13:03.952 In reality, we were first, and that comes with a responsibility for us to respond quickly to issues. 00:13:03.952 --> 00:13:09.072 We've also committed to backporting new versions of the Uutils package to 2604, 00:13:09.072 --> 00:13:12.662 which we wouldn't normally do unless there was a critical kind of security issue. 00:13:12.662 --> 00:13:16.202 But we're doing that because we recognize that the software was early and some 00:13:16.202 --> 00:13:19.014 people will be facing issues that we want to resolve for them as a kind of... 00:13:20.006 --> 00:13:21.852 You know, exception policy in this case. 00:13:22.148 --> 00:13:26.815 So now that we're here, what is the goal going forward? Or I guess another way 00:13:26.815 --> 00:13:29.645 for me to phrase that is what are you hoping the dividends that pay off now 00:13:29.645 --> 00:13:31.436 that you're on a Rust core utils? 00:13:33.380 --> 00:13:39.103 So in the long term, it should be less maintenance for a certain class of bug. 00:13:40.015 --> 00:13:44.765 I'm not exaggerating or making stuff up when I say that the vast, 00:13:44.765 --> 00:13:48.125 vast majority of security vulnerabilities out in the wild have been up to this 00:13:48.125 --> 00:13:50.095 date due to memory corruption issues. 00:13:50.095 --> 00:13:53.125 And I hope is that we will cease to see that with core utils. 00:13:53.125 --> 00:13:56.735 I also think we're starting to see some nice features. So the latest release 00:13:56.735 --> 00:14:00.790 has this nice trick where if you type an argument slightly wrong, you put the 00:14:00.906 --> 00:14:03.385 argument value in the wrong format or you slightly mistype it, 00:14:03.385 --> 00:14:06.865 it gives you a Rust compiler style warning and highlights exactly where it was 00:14:06.865 --> 00:14:08.790 that you typed it wrong and relates to the help. 00:14:09.498 --> 00:14:14.555 There's some nice performance improvements coming. And so my view is that that 00:14:14.555 --> 00:14:19.105 is just those sorts of UX changes and improvements are very difficult to land, 00:14:19.105 --> 00:14:20.035 I think, in the original. 00:14:20.035 --> 00:14:22.725 There's no appetite to do so, and I respect that. I think that's absolutely 00:14:22.725 --> 00:14:28.132 fine. But the user experience that I aspire to for Ubuntu is more than that, 00:14:28.341 --> 00:14:31.278 ultimately. And I think a project like EU Tools will enable us to get there, 00:14:31.755 --> 00:14:34.179 even if in the short term there's a few rough edges. 00:14:34.499 --> 00:14:36.687 Do you think you're on track for the LTS? Yes. 00:14:39.009 --> 00:14:39.996 In what sense? 00:14:41.156 --> 00:14:44.988 In shipping and making the transition to the Rust utilities in the LTS. 00:14:45.371 --> 00:14:48.206 I mean, it was done in 2604, apart from three tools. 00:14:48.206 --> 00:14:53.536 Oh, it is. So this last three. Okay. So then I'm presuming then the answer is 00:14:53.536 --> 00:14:55.576 yes. By the next LTS, these last three will make it. 00:14:56.056 --> 00:15:00.386 100%. And so by the next LTS, you'll also have NTPDRS by default. 00:15:00.386 --> 00:15:02.299 And that will be the first time, I think. 00:15:02.595 --> 00:15:06.516 So it's NTPDRS plus some new stuff, which we're funding the development of. 00:15:06.516 --> 00:15:12.736 And so that will get you a single binary NTP client server that also speaks 00:15:12.736 --> 00:15:16.896 NTS and also does PTP without an additional tool, like precision time, 00:15:16.896 --> 00:15:17.821 without an additional tool. 00:15:19.376 --> 00:15:23.609 We are dropping BZIP2RS in by default early in 2704. 00:15:24.423 --> 00:15:28.857 And we're evaluating Z-Standard RS, Z-Lib, and various other compression tools, 00:15:28.857 --> 00:15:32.187 which are actually very exciting because, 00:15:32.867 --> 00:15:37.777 that is where the efficiency gains that one might seek from a Rust rewrite could 00:15:37.777 --> 00:15:40.377 have enormous global scale impact. 00:15:40.377 --> 00:15:45.287 So imagine all of the Ubuntu machines on the planet suddenly got 5% more efficient 00:15:45.287 --> 00:15:48.232 at doing Z-Standard or Z-Lib decompression, for example. 00:15:48.349 --> 00:15:49.335 Right, right. 00:15:49.922 --> 00:15:50.937 Quite a meaningful change. 00:15:50.937 --> 00:15:55.407 A lot of them out there doing that. So is there a transition taking in place 00:15:55.407 --> 00:15:58.367 with the internal tooling that Canonical is writing? Are you writing that in 00:15:58.367 --> 00:16:00.330 Rust? What's the direction there? 00:16:01.247 --> 00:16:05.307 Some. So Canonical has always taken quite a disciplined approach to the languages 00:16:05.307 --> 00:16:08.561 used internally. So traditionally, it was lots of Python, lots of Go. 00:16:09.171 --> 00:16:13.897 Now it's lots of Python, lots of Go, and some Rust. And we're increasingly trying 00:16:13.897 --> 00:16:17.937 to be discerning about where we use those tools. It's not, as some might have 00:16:17.937 --> 00:16:21.408 suggested, a religious game. There are things for which Go is very good. 00:16:21.785 --> 00:16:23.907 Go has very powerful primitives for concurrency. 00:16:24.387 --> 00:16:28.217 If you're writing web services and doing HTTP handling and things like that, 00:16:28.217 --> 00:16:32.012 Go is a phenomenal choice still. Even some of our systems tools like SnapD are written in Go. 00:16:32.407 --> 00:16:38.647 But equally, if you want to write very low-level compositors and database protocols 00:16:38.647 --> 00:16:41.757 and things like that, Rust is a very compelling choice. So we try to use the 00:16:41.757 --> 00:16:42.612 right tools for the right job. 00:16:42.746 --> 00:16:46.647 And so we are definitely seeing more and more Rust projects popping up around Canonical. 00:16:47.518 --> 00:16:51.207 Okay, so you mentioned Snaps. You boys all right if we transition to this one? 00:16:51.207 --> 00:16:55.227 You ready for this? Okay. So the big news that you made recently, 00:16:55.647 --> 00:17:01.705 and this is pretty exciting, is that, quote, you are accelerating the Ubuntu Core desktop, 00:17:02.291 --> 00:17:08.752 the immutable and attestable Linux distribution, and you say specifically the desktop, too. 00:17:09.344 --> 00:17:14.180 So we all know Ubuntu Core, and it kind of seems to have faded a little bit, so it's, 00:17:15.160 --> 00:17:18.602 back john what's going on what are the details tell us the story here. 00:17:19.055 --> 00:17:23.968 Yeah so ubuntu core itself has been pretty widely deployed on sort of iot class 00:17:23.968 --> 00:17:27.449 devices digital signage robots those kind of things, 00:17:28.168 --> 00:17:32.768 uh and continues to to be deployed as such you'll remember 2023 there was a 00:17:32.768 --> 00:17:35.087 sort of proof of concept core desktop 00:17:35.366 --> 00:17:38.288 and then it sort of all went a bit quiet and that coincided with about the time 00:17:38.288 --> 00:17:41.217 that i took over ubuntu and it's one of it's been one of the things i have been 00:17:41.600 --> 00:17:43.208 most desperate to get back to. 00:17:43.208 --> 00:17:47.521 But the sort of cold, hard reality of it was that I didn't feel like we had, 00:17:48.061 --> 00:17:53.238 the right team or resources to commit to that on that timescale. 00:17:53.238 --> 00:17:58.238 And a combination of some exceptional hiring from my team and kind of growth 00:17:58.238 --> 00:18:01.028 in the department has meant that I now feel pretty confident that we can tackle it. 00:18:01.028 --> 00:18:05.668 And honestly, I think this is the most exciting thing I have or maybe will get 00:18:05.668 --> 00:18:11.638 to announce at Canonical. Because for me, it is the most prolific kind of reimagining 00:18:11.638 --> 00:18:14.416 of Ubuntu's architecture and makeup in its history. 00:18:14.538 --> 00:18:19.501 It is replacing the bootloader as a snap, the kernel as a snap, 00:18:20.428 --> 00:18:21.778 the desktop environment as a snap. 00:18:21.778 --> 00:18:26.098 And so we have revived that original POC, which still has some architectural 00:18:26.098 --> 00:18:29.408 deficiencies, but is now rebased on core 26. And if you know where to look on 00:18:29.408 --> 00:18:30.901 GitHub, you can get the images and boot them. 00:18:32.381 --> 00:18:35.528 We're working on a kind of daily release pipeline and now we'll aim to break 00:18:35.528 --> 00:18:39.997 down some of the more monolithic aspects of that proof of concept into component parts. 00:18:40.276 --> 00:18:43.080 Okay, so there's a lot about this that really bakes our noodle. 00:18:43.335 --> 00:18:46.008 It's a huge job, and I do want to get into some of the aspects that seem like 00:18:46.008 --> 00:18:47.236 they're going to be challenging, but... 00:18:48.230 --> 00:18:53.137 Man, it seems like if swapping out a few CLI tools was controversial, 00:18:53.137 --> 00:18:57.843 this is really going to rock the boat when people actually wrap their head around what's coming. 00:18:58.190 --> 00:19:01.347 Because, John, you're coming right at it and you're saying this is going to 00:19:01.347 --> 00:19:02.980 be the future of Ubuntu one day. 00:19:03.305 --> 00:19:07.277 And in a way, for a lot of people, I think Ubuntu is kind of like the bastion 00:19:07.277 --> 00:19:10.287 of a traditional distro where I can install it and I can just run anything I 00:19:10.287 --> 00:19:12.221 would download and et cetera, et cetera. 00:19:12.547 --> 00:19:15.387 There's got to be at least a portion of the user base and so many of the things 00:19:15.387 --> 00:19:19.217 that are based off Ubuntu that kind of have this expectation just baked in of 00:19:19.217 --> 00:19:20.400 how a Linux system works. 00:19:21.016 --> 00:19:24.301 This is going to be a pretty big transition. Like, are you crazy? 00:19:25.073 --> 00:19:25.420 A little. 00:19:27.057 --> 00:19:27.577 All right. 00:19:27.577 --> 00:19:32.197 But here's the thing. So traditional Ubuntu, Ubuntu as it sounds today, 00:19:32.197 --> 00:19:35.767 is not going anywhere. Like, no one should read into this that this signals 00:19:35.767 --> 00:19:37.600 death for Ubuntu as we know it today. 00:19:37.757 --> 00:19:41.704 For a start, Ubuntu Core cannot exist without the packages that we build, 00:19:41.954 --> 00:19:43.987 that we inherit and sync and patch from Debian, right? 00:19:43.987 --> 00:19:48.367 So Ubuntu, as you know it today, if you are someone who has absolutely no interest 00:19:48.367 --> 00:19:50.887 in Immutable Linux and Snaps, Ubuntu is going to stick around. 00:19:50.887 --> 00:19:54.157 You can carry on using it. Don't panic. I hope that there are no plans on any 00:19:54.157 --> 00:19:56.815 timeline to stop doing Ubuntu as we're doing it today. 00:19:57.343 --> 00:20:04.930 There is a plan that over the next couple few years, Core will become the default Ubuntu experience. 00:20:05.243 --> 00:20:08.277 And in my opinion, there are very good reasons for that. I know I don't need 00:20:08.277 --> 00:20:12.697 to sell you folks on immutable Linux distributions, but Ubuntu Core has some 00:20:12.697 --> 00:20:13.875 really interesting properties, 00:20:14.809 --> 00:20:18.965 even among the current drop-off Linux distributions. So one of the first criticisms 00:20:18.965 --> 00:20:22.975 I heard on this post was, well, I've used an immediate Linux system, 00:20:22.975 --> 00:20:25.525 and every time I update a package, I have to rebuild an image and reboot the 00:20:25.525 --> 00:20:26.632 system and redeploy the whole thing. 00:20:26.875 --> 00:20:30.242 Not true on Ubuntu core. Just refresh the snap in place. We can live patch the kernel. 00:20:30.695 --> 00:20:36.225 So that's not a drawback. It also brings that lovely, I want to switch the desktop 00:20:36.225 --> 00:20:40.860 environment for a day and see what happens type effect without crapping all over your system. 00:20:41.775 --> 00:20:46.745 You can just install the KDE snap, boot that for a while remove the KDE snap 00:20:46.745 --> 00:20:50.835 and go back to GNOME I hope that there will be cosmic snaps and you know NERI 00:20:50.835 --> 00:20:55.076 snaps and all the rest of it and I think. 00:20:56.737 --> 00:21:00.187 2026 has never been a better time to think about what confinement might look 00:21:00.187 --> 00:21:04.353 like on your workstation. I think it is only a matter of time before we see. 00:21:06.855 --> 00:21:11.946 Very influential people having their credentials leaked because an agent did something silly. 00:21:12.213 --> 00:21:16.567 And the way I run my machine is I have very little installed on it. 00:21:16.567 --> 00:21:20.427 I have a browser, I have a chat client, I have a terminal, and pretty much everything 00:21:20.427 --> 00:21:23.087 I do is in a LexD container or a VM or something like that. 00:21:25.347 --> 00:21:29.327 And And there is a story here on the compatibility front that really has come 00:21:29.327 --> 00:21:33.547 into focus in the last year that I couldn't have told two and a half years ago 00:21:33.547 --> 00:21:35.885 when I kind of regrettably put a pause on things. 00:21:36.785 --> 00:21:40.277 And so where I am moving towards is why not use Canonical Workshop, 00:21:40.277 --> 00:21:44.677 which is this nice little utility that we shipped about six to eight months 00:21:44.677 --> 00:21:48.447 ago for building little reproducible developer environments. 00:21:48.691 --> 00:21:54.200 Use that as the sort of compatibility story. So today I have been using Firefox 00:21:54.530 --> 00:21:55.691 installed in a workshop. 00:21:56.626 --> 00:21:59.482 I launch it from my GNOME launcher and it pops up on my desktop. 00:22:00.247 --> 00:22:03.497 It's wired up to D-Bus through D-Bus proxy. It's wired up to Pipewire through 00:22:03.497 --> 00:22:05.827 Pipewire container. The notifications work. The camera works. 00:22:06.965 --> 00:22:12.177 Web Serial even worked. And that Firefox is installed as a dev running in a workshop. 00:22:12.177 --> 00:22:16.627 Okay. So, okay, I got it. This is a lot. So first of all, what I caught in there 00:22:16.627 --> 00:22:20.247 is it doesn't sound like alternative desktops are out. Still going to be able 00:22:20.247 --> 00:22:22.654 to run Plasma and Cosmic. That's all going to be still a thing. 00:22:22.887 --> 00:22:26.207 We're actually working with the KDE folks right from the start. 00:22:26.207 --> 00:22:29.317 So we are paying a company who's 00:22:29.317 --> 00:22:32.836 quite heavily involved in the KDE Neon community to work alongside us, 00:22:33.695 --> 00:22:39.167 in our teams day to day to basically develop the KDE, like cutting edge KDE 00:22:39.167 --> 00:22:41.427 track alongside what we're doing with the GNOME track. 00:22:41.427 --> 00:22:44.987 So right from day one, we essentially put ourselves in a position where we can't 00:22:44.987 --> 00:22:48.257 make decisions that would inhibit us to just one desktop environment or one 00:22:48.257 --> 00:22:49.595 login manager or something like that. 00:22:52.277 --> 00:22:55.993 What kept me from having a proper website for a long time was it just felt expensive 00:22:55.993 --> 00:22:59.313 and time-consuming. I mean, for some folks, it means you have to hire someone. 00:22:59.650 --> 00:23:04.189 For others like me, it means at least a weekend of research to look at a stack of tools. 00:23:04.706 --> 00:23:08.893 Hostinger's AI Builder flips that. Describe what you want, and it builds a working 00:23:08.893 --> 00:23:10.923 version of the entire site in minutes. 00:23:11.178 --> 00:23:14.203 No coding, no design skills required. 00:23:14.534 --> 00:23:17.279 And you can start from a mock-up before you even make an account. 00:23:17.586 --> 00:23:20.006 That's the part that actually got me to try it, I'll be honest. 00:23:20.314 --> 00:23:23.553 What I also like is that it's kind of an all-in-one place for the domain, 00:23:23.553 --> 00:23:26.573 the website, the email, the marketing that makes it easy for you to get started 00:23:26.573 --> 00:23:27.779 or a friend or a family member. 00:23:28.186 --> 00:23:32.353 One Hostinger account covers it all, so no stitching together five different 00:23:32.353 --> 00:23:33.950 subscriptions in your domain provider. 00:23:34.380 --> 00:23:37.513 And if you already have a site somewhere else, Hostinger makes migration quick 00:23:37.513 --> 00:23:40.608 and easy. You're not locked into whatever you started with years ago. 00:23:41.328 --> 00:23:45.862 And right now, Black Friday and Cyber Monday pricing is live. 00:23:46.030 --> 00:23:48.817 A premium plan is just $1.99 a month. 00:23:49.275 --> 00:23:52.803 Snag Hostinger's service at their lowest prices before the sale ends. 00:23:52.803 --> 00:23:55.904 Create your website today for just $1.99. 00:23:56.259 --> 00:24:01.233 Go to hostinger.com slash unplugged and use the code unplugged for an additional 00:24:01.233 --> 00:24:04.322 10% off Black Friday and Cyber Monday pricing. 00:24:04.455 --> 00:24:07.242 Hostinger.com slash unplugged. 00:24:10.307 --> 00:24:13.571 Okay, then the other thing, it sounds like you called it a workshop. 00:24:13.571 --> 00:24:18.451 This is almost kind of like a separate contained environment where you could, 00:24:18.951 --> 00:24:22.311 essentially sideload applications that aren't snapped or for some reason you 00:24:22.311 --> 00:24:23.354 didn't want a snapped version. 00:24:23.744 --> 00:24:28.481 That's right. So think, I'm just going to say this, various parts of the internet 00:24:28.481 --> 00:24:29.786 are about to explode. So strap in. 00:24:30.083 --> 00:24:33.229 Think Windows subsystem for Linux with the graphics bit. 00:24:33.363 --> 00:24:37.722 So you can install, like you could even install a Flatpak in a container and 00:24:37.907 --> 00:24:41.691 the window can appear on your Ubuntu Core desktop as if it was running on your 00:24:41.691 --> 00:24:43.532 desktop, except it's not, it's running in a container. 00:24:44.311 --> 00:24:50.051 And that is essentially the, that's the escape patch. So obviously I see this as an escape patch. 00:24:50.051 --> 00:24:52.981 If we do our job right, all the software vendors in the world are going to want 00:24:52.981 --> 00:24:57.111 to ship their stuff for snaps because the security story, the update story, 00:24:57.111 --> 00:25:00.681 the kind of usage metric story should be so compelling for them and for their 00:25:00.681 --> 00:25:02.741 users that they want to ship their stuff for snaps. 00:25:03.218 --> 00:25:06.891 But it is no good for us to go out in the world when none of the apps are snaps 00:25:06.891 --> 00:25:09.191 and tell everyone that this is the future of Ubuntu when they boot it up for 00:25:09.191 --> 00:25:11.261 the first time and can't get the stuff done they need to get done. 00:25:11.261 --> 00:25:16.671 And so workshops and containers and the appropriate kind of wiring and polish 00:25:16.671 --> 00:25:20.081 around how you wire those apps into the desktop are kind of the escape hatch. 00:25:20.081 --> 00:25:21.205 And that's going to be a focus. 00:25:21.774 --> 00:25:24.711 I mean, I'm running a sort of prototype of it today, in a sense. 00:25:24.711 --> 00:25:27.611 Is this essentially like LXD under the hood, kind of wired up? 00:25:27.611 --> 00:25:28.051 It is LXD. 00:25:28.051 --> 00:25:28.921 Okay, yeah, okay. 00:25:28.921 --> 00:25:29.371 Awesome. 00:25:29.371 --> 00:25:30.161 That's great. 00:25:30.161 --> 00:25:33.511 So workshop, canonical workshop is this super nice little thing that we actually 00:25:33.511 --> 00:25:38.376 imagined three years ago for basically confining... 00:25:39.340 --> 00:25:43.117 A board vendor SDK. So often if you're doing IoT development or board bring 00:25:43.117 --> 00:25:47.087 up enablement stuff, you end up with these kind of large SDKs, 00:25:47.087 --> 00:25:49.147 lots of files, lots of libraries, lots of utilities. 00:25:49.147 --> 00:25:52.967 And if you're working on boards from five different vendors, 00:25:52.967 --> 00:25:55.457 this stuff can end up all over your system and conflict and be a bit of a pain. 00:25:55.457 --> 00:25:58.758 So Workshops was basically a way of like, how can we wrap up an XD container 00:25:58.961 --> 00:26:02.450 in a nice declarative kind of YAML format that can be shared among teams? 00:26:02.670 --> 00:26:05.817 And so the idea is in your repo, you have a workshop.yaml, you type workshop 00:26:05.817 --> 00:26:08.507 launch, and you get the same developer environment as the rest of your teammates, 00:26:08.507 --> 00:26:11.517 makes much like a nix shell right much like a nix flake shell something like 00:26:11.517 --> 00:26:13.247 that could be interesting in a desktop. 00:26:13.247 --> 00:26:15.504 Environment for sharing those workshop environments around. 00:26:16.369 --> 00:26:19.427 And that's what our teams are doing and and some of our customers and users 00:26:19.427 --> 00:26:22.687 are starting to do so we've built this product and it sort of only recently 00:26:22.687 --> 00:26:23.846 occurred to me that we could, 00:26:24.624 --> 00:26:28.067 extend the set of interfaces and integrations that we have with workshops to 00:26:28.067 --> 00:26:32.077 make it very easy to say well when desktop apps launch in this workshop the 00:26:32.077 --> 00:26:35.537 app needs to show up on my desktop and make that very seamless. 00:26:35.537 --> 00:26:38.155 So that's the kind of, that's the get out of jail free card. 00:26:38.410 --> 00:26:43.067 But actually what's really important to me is that we get the first class experience, right? 00:26:43.067 --> 00:26:47.727 Because I don't love the idea of running a totally unconfined browser on my system. 00:26:47.727 --> 00:26:53.207 I certainly don't love the idea of running codecs or open code on my system 00:26:53.207 --> 00:26:56.147 where all my credentials are. Like, I think we all agree probably that that's 00:26:56.147 --> 00:27:02.112 not great hygiene. And the problem is it is very easy for people to do that today on Ubuntu. 00:27:02.449 --> 00:27:05.287 You have to know what you're doing. You have to know that you don't want to 00:27:05.287 --> 00:27:07.307 do that in order to not fall into that trap. 00:27:07.307 --> 00:27:12.409 And I think for me, one of the attractive things about Core Desktop is we don't, 00:27:12.931 --> 00:27:16.417 give our users the option to put themselves in that position. 00:27:16.417 --> 00:27:18.947 They will have the flexibility to get done what they need to get done, 00:27:18.947 --> 00:27:21.197 and it should feel smooth and seamless, and we shouldn't get in their way, 00:27:21.197 --> 00:27:24.127 but they can't accidentally install an agent that's going to root their system 00:27:24.127 --> 00:27:25.592 on the machine. It doesn't work. 00:27:27.862 --> 00:27:30.941 So that's kind of the thinking. And there's three use cases I outlined. 00:27:30.941 --> 00:27:33.330 One was the kind of Chromebook use case. 00:27:33.991 --> 00:27:37.041 Boot to a browser, lots of users. For lots of home users, that's going to be 00:27:37.041 --> 00:27:41.891 enough, I think. Just a very nicely optimized, accelerated browser that automatically 00:27:41.891 --> 00:27:43.871 updates in the background without you ever doing anything. Like, 00:27:43.871 --> 00:27:46.321 we can achieve that today, right now. Like, I could send you an image, 00:27:46.321 --> 00:27:47.245 you could boot it, it will work. 00:27:49.497 --> 00:27:53.481 The other two are interesting for two different reasons. So one of them is a 00:27:53.481 --> 00:27:56.851 developer workstation. So that's, you run VS Code, you've got workshops, 00:27:56.851 --> 00:27:58.511 You know, you do all your development in containers. 00:27:58.871 --> 00:28:02.221 We have a nice VS Code extension for Workshops. It's aware of all the Workshops 00:28:02.221 --> 00:28:04.863 in your machine. You can remotely attach to them, all that kind of stuff. 00:28:05.943 --> 00:28:09.511 And then the third one is a bit of a wild card, a bit of an underappreciated 00:28:09.511 --> 00:28:12.481 part of the world in Ubuntu so far, which is a gaming variant. 00:28:12.481 --> 00:28:16.919 So this is boot Ubuntu Core straight to Steam or the new Epic Games launcher. 00:28:17.284 --> 00:28:19.165 This one feels the most ambitious. 00:28:20.251 --> 00:28:22.431 Well, is it though? I mean, we have a Steam Snap and it works. 00:28:22.431 --> 00:28:27.281 You know what I mean? Tell me if I'm wrong. John, it feels a little bit like 00:28:27.281 --> 00:28:30.671 you're saying to Val, like, hey, take a look at this. You could be doing it 00:28:30.671 --> 00:28:33.149 this way. We got something over here you could use. 00:28:33.370 --> 00:28:35.059 That's the part that feels a bit ambitious to me. 00:28:37.044 --> 00:28:39.580 I'm not not saying that, but I'm also not saying that. And so, 00:28:39.824 --> 00:28:43.304 well, I guess what I'm trying to say is this is not about going after Valve. 00:28:43.304 --> 00:28:46.424 This is about we have a huge user base. 00:28:46.424 --> 00:28:46.624 Yeah, yeah. 00:28:47.365 --> 00:28:51.864 I would love, so my view is it is on us to make this thing so good that they want it. 00:28:52.183 --> 00:28:54.656 When they built SteamOS, we didn't have the thing they wanted, 00:28:55.585 --> 00:28:57.464 clearly, or they would have spoken to us about it, right? 00:28:58.272 --> 00:29:04.634 And I think if I were Valve, do I want to be maintaining a mirror of Arch Linux 00:29:04.634 --> 00:29:07.764 and all this kind of AB boot and Atomic update? Do I want to be maintaining that? 00:29:08.184 --> 00:29:11.627 Is that the USB for Valve? I don't know. Maybe it is. Maybe they are a Linux company. 00:29:12.167 --> 00:29:14.727 For me, we're going to build Ubuntu Core anyway. 00:29:15.923 --> 00:29:20.050 And people have desktop machines, increasingly desktop machines on Linux that they play games on. 00:29:20.503 --> 00:29:23.624 We already have a Steam Snap. We are going to have a Snap for the new launches 00:29:23.624 --> 00:29:25.571 that are coming out from other games companies. 00:29:25.931 --> 00:29:30.714 And so why not also have the ability to make that experience great on a Steam 00:29:30.714 --> 00:29:33.624 Deck or on a Legion Go or on a whatever, right? 00:29:34.344 --> 00:29:36.020 I think there's lots of opportunities there. 00:29:36.165 --> 00:29:40.908 It could make sense, too, from a desktop compatibility story for the non-Steam Deck devices as well. 00:29:41.111 --> 00:29:44.104 That's the bit that feels a bit ambitious, and I like that you're going for 00:29:44.104 --> 00:29:48.364 it. It's also going to push all of the edge cases on drivers and all of that stuff. 00:29:48.364 --> 00:29:52.564 That's kind of why I'm doing it, should I mean. So these three initial use cases, 00:29:52.564 --> 00:29:55.014 I've had people say, well, it seems a bit limited. Why just those three? 00:29:55.362 --> 00:29:59.024 But if you look at the three use cases, they are three use cases that are going 00:29:59.024 --> 00:30:04.184 to push the implementation in different ways and highlight to us where we still 00:30:04.184 --> 00:30:06.228 need to do work before we can make this the default. 00:30:06.588 --> 00:30:12.854 So my goal is that very soon, as in on the order of the next three to four weeks, 00:30:12.854 --> 00:30:15.964 there will be images that people can get their hands on. They actually are already 00:30:15.964 --> 00:30:17.600 out there hiding on GitHub if you look somewhere. 00:30:17.786 --> 00:30:20.264 But daily images that we are a bit more polished. 00:30:20.648 --> 00:30:25.584 By 2804, I would like us to be releasing Ubuntu core images alongside the standard 00:30:25.584 --> 00:30:28.020 Ubuntu. And then we'll see what happens after that. 00:30:28.223 --> 00:30:31.613 So let's say some guys found those images previously. 00:30:32.437 --> 00:30:37.505 And they took a look uh i was surprised i think the entire base for the desktop 00:30:37.505 --> 00:30:40.379 is only 20 snaps right now i thought it'd be like 100 snaps. 00:30:40.959 --> 00:30:45.275 Well therein lies the problem so that original proof of concept does indeed 00:30:45.275 --> 00:30:48.180 it's a few things that we have to sort of quite desperately fix uh 00:30:48.585 --> 00:30:51.705 one is that in that original proof of concept which we have basically taken 00:30:51.705 --> 00:30:56.885 and just lifted into 2026 so there's a few few patches that needed to be rebased on snap d there's, 00:30:57.525 --> 00:31:02.623 all of the snaps got lifted from core 22 up to core 26 but what the cheat is 00:31:02.907 --> 00:31:05.445 it kind of jams the whole of gnome into a single snap yeah okay, 00:31:06.165 --> 00:31:09.575 and that's obviously not the answer right so the whole desktop not even just 00:31:09.575 --> 00:31:14.015 the whole of gnome like essentially the whole desktop so our primary kind of 00:31:14.015 --> 00:31:16.984 piece of work over the next few months is going to be figuring out like what is, 00:31:17.605 --> 00:31:20.525 the correct decomposition of a desktop clearly we're going to have pipe wire 00:31:20.525 --> 00:31:24.165 and wire plumber do they live in a single snap do they live side by side in 00:31:24.165 --> 00:31:28.405 the same snap we're going to have things like lib camera we'll have gdm we'll 00:31:28.405 --> 00:31:30.811 have sddm where do they live also, 00:31:31.409 --> 00:31:34.765 for a login manager that needs quite a lot more permissions than a standard 00:31:34.765 --> 00:31:38.275 snap and so we'll have to do custom work in snap d to enable new interfaces 00:31:38.275 --> 00:31:40.465 and allow login managers right because. 00:31:40.645 --> 00:31:45.425 As of right now that the login manager actually is not snapped is it or it's not confined at the. 00:31:45.425 --> 00:31:50.115 Moment uh so that is one of the things on the images we've just made i believe 00:31:50.115 --> 00:31:54.325 is true so certainly for gdm we have managed to make that confine but with patches 00:31:54.325 --> 00:31:57.465 to snapd so it's a upstream version. 00:31:57.465 --> 00:31:59.335 Of snapd at the moment to make it work i. 00:31:59.335 --> 00:32:04.229 See yes so it's all very custom so the idea is so one of the reasons i haven't widely, 00:32:04.758 --> 00:32:08.605 distributed those images and the build tooling is because we're just doing some work there's a new, 00:32:09.076 --> 00:32:13.035 tool that we have been building in alongside all of our other craft tools called 00:32:13.035 --> 00:32:16.875 image craft image craft much like snap craft and rock craft will be a single 00:32:16.875 --> 00:32:20.338 yaml format if you know those formats it will look incredibly familiar to you 00:32:20.779 --> 00:32:24.477 and we have a working image craft for Ubuntu core desktop which is, 00:32:25.603 --> 00:32:29.168 beautiful like so much nicer than anything i've ever seen to build an ubuntu 00:32:29.168 --> 00:32:31.025 image and as soon as that is ready, 00:32:31.623 --> 00:32:36.058 essentially it will be possible for anybody to cut their own custom image custom 00:32:36.058 --> 00:32:39.658 ubuntu core desktop image by editing like a hundred line yaml file which is 00:32:39.658 --> 00:32:44.028 kind of wild that it's it's almost in the kind of almost as easy to cut your 00:32:44.028 --> 00:32:46.468 own images nixos kind of territory declarative. 00:32:46.468 --> 00:32:48.348 Images i mean i love it all right all. 00:32:48.348 --> 00:32:49.555 Right yeah yeah. 00:32:49.769 --> 00:32:52.928 Okay so it sounds like you're going to be hitting a lot of the edges that will 00:32:52.928 --> 00:32:59.098 be pushing probably on snap and snap d itself to get here yeah well that's probably almost worth. 00:32:59.098 --> 00:33:03.098 It and i mean so we have work in the kernel to do we have work in app armor 00:33:03.098 --> 00:33:06.298 to do we have work in snap d to do we likely will have to patch bits of the 00:33:06.298 --> 00:33:09.958 desktop itself like this is not something that is going to land in six months 00:33:10.091 --> 00:33:12.860 right and it is going to be quite the challenge but i, 00:33:13.749 --> 00:33:18.148 i have to believe that this is the future of ubuntu if you look at what is going 00:33:18.148 --> 00:33:22.968 on in the world right now with security and agents and and confidential compute 00:33:22.968 --> 00:33:27.128 and verified boot, measured boot, I have to believe that this is the answer. 00:33:27.568 --> 00:33:32.198 There are so many of those things that we can do to an extent on traditional 00:33:32.198 --> 00:33:35.570 Ubuntu, but we'll always be hampered by the fact that the file system is kind of floppy. 00:33:36.057 --> 00:33:39.378 Every process can kind of access everything, modular some file system permissions 00:33:39.378 --> 00:33:40.318 and some AppArmor rules. 00:33:40.968 --> 00:33:43.406 And I think the way we tidy that up is with Core. 00:33:43.778 --> 00:33:48.448 I mean, it seems like we started this interview talking about the security story, right? 00:33:48.448 --> 00:33:52.008 And there is a security story with this change. I think maybe also there's a 00:33:52.008 --> 00:33:56.108 velocity story because the securities have kind of is also moving faster, 00:33:56.108 --> 00:33:59.867 right? So does core change what you can do and how you can deliver updates? 00:34:00.779 --> 00:34:03.351 Yeah, I mean, firstly, most of the system will be on autopilot. 00:34:03.693 --> 00:34:06.776 Like, you know, snaps update in the background automatically. 00:34:06.776 --> 00:34:09.536 We can choose that cadence. They also have this nice property where you can 00:34:09.536 --> 00:34:15.916 say, well, I want to be on Ubuntu 2604, but I want Gnome from 2804 or from 2710, for example. 00:34:15.916 --> 00:34:19.796 And that's quite hard to achieve on a normal Ubuntu system without doing quite 00:34:19.796 --> 00:34:23.786 messy things with apt that might result in you wedging your system with a snap. 00:34:24.226 --> 00:34:27.056 You can just say, actually, I want to point the desktop stack at a different 00:34:27.056 --> 00:34:29.526 track and pull that in. And there's no reason why it shouldn't work. 00:34:31.206 --> 00:34:35.086 Same with for example lib camera and pipewire so often one of the things that 00:34:35.086 --> 00:34:40.366 happens is users of the lts as we're getting towards the next lts so 18 months 00:34:40.366 --> 00:34:41.838 nearly two years after the last one 00:34:42.215 --> 00:34:46.743 they download the lts that is currently supported and the shiny new camera module that was just, 00:34:47.219 --> 00:34:50.865 just built six months ago doesn't have support because it's got the wrong version of lib camera, 00:34:51.498 --> 00:34:53.599 maybe the wrong kernel version whereas with, 00:34:54.400 --> 00:34:58.646 with core it's much easier to kind of pick and choose bits and and the oems 00:34:58.646 --> 00:35:01.289 will be able to do the same so dell would be able to say for example 00:35:01.609 --> 00:35:05.636 ship their new laptop with the 2604 lts but in their image they could pick up 00:35:05.636 --> 00:35:08.536 the snaps and have the support for that camera without having to do kind of 00:35:08.536 --> 00:35:11.596 like a hacked up frank and buntu thing that's really hard to support right some custom. 00:35:11.596 --> 00:35:15.726 Right oh it sounds like a much more composable system that's impressive. 00:35:15.726 --> 00:35:18.478 That's exactly the word i would use it's composable. 00:35:18.664 --> 00:35:23.290 John with this aggressive timeline you mentioned 2804 as being the default. 00:35:23.911 --> 00:35:25.186 No not for the default, 00:35:27.386 --> 00:35:32.556 so i i haven't yet said this publicly but i don't see any harm in doing it other 00:35:32.556 --> 00:35:35.496 than perhaps raising the cortisol levels of my team slightly so i would like 00:35:35.496 --> 00:35:38.940 the images to be available for people to play with in 2804, 00:35:39.620 --> 00:35:44.066 my like stretchy stretchy stretch goal is to have this ready for being the default 00:35:44.066 --> 00:35:47.936 in 304 but i would like to caveat that with that is an incredibly aggressive 00:35:47.936 --> 00:35:50.596 timeline given the amount of work we have to do what a great release that. 00:35:50.596 --> 00:35:53.766 Would be what a great number that would be that's so great. 00:35:53.766 --> 00:35:59.181 I love that ambition right uh and so that's what i'd like to do now, 00:36:01.242 --> 00:36:05.430 I think the reception has been really interesting, more positive than I thought 00:36:05.430 --> 00:36:08.230 when you say to someone, hey, you know those snaps that Reddit loves? 00:36:08.230 --> 00:36:10.630 We're going to put them everywhere. It's the only way you can install stuff. 00:36:12.266 --> 00:36:15.296 But I think in reality, the narrative is starting to shift there. 00:36:15.505 --> 00:36:18.651 You know, I think I've said this before, and I'll say it again. 00:36:19.011 --> 00:36:23.590 Having explored the Boot C ecosystem for some time, I spent a long time running 00:36:23.590 --> 00:36:27.960 Nix, even while working at Canonical. My first three and a half years at Canonical, 00:36:27.960 --> 00:36:29.408 I was daily driving NixOS. 00:36:31.236 --> 00:36:33.489 The things that Snaps are good at, they're very, very good at. 00:36:33.715 --> 00:36:37.940 And the things they're not good at are not existential limitations. 00:36:37.940 --> 00:36:39.613 They're things that we have yet to implement. 00:36:39.834 --> 00:36:44.920 And I think one of the reasons we haven't implemented them is because it hasn't 00:36:44.920 --> 00:36:46.509 been the goal to make it the default. 00:36:46.631 --> 00:36:51.415 And now I am going to be orienting the teams internally very much towards this goal. 00:36:53.521 --> 00:36:57.113 This is absolutely the focus for the Ubuntu Engineering. Org is going to be landing this. 00:36:58.170 --> 00:37:00.460 So maybe that changes the calculus 00:37:00.460 --> 00:37:03.116 slightly. The SnapD team is also in the best shape I've ever seen it. 00:37:03.470 --> 00:37:06.210 The leads there are doing a phenomenal job. They're very excited. 00:37:07.429 --> 00:37:10.592 And so I have to believe that this is possible. 00:37:10.924 --> 00:37:18.130 Okay. Reframing then, 30.04 as the default, given that still accelerated timeline 00:37:18.130 --> 00:37:24.250 for something so, let's say, different than current Ubuntu, it's going to be 00:37:24.250 --> 00:37:25.610 snaps everywhere, as you mentioned. 00:37:26.365 --> 00:37:28.010 Yeah. What does that mean for 00:37:28.010 --> 00:37:34.990 the Snap infrastructure and delivering Snaps to users in a reliable way? 00:37:34.990 --> 00:37:40.510 Is that obviously a backend that's going to need to scale, but do you have ambitions 00:37:40.510 --> 00:37:42.137 to have that backend be Snaps as well? 00:37:44.319 --> 00:37:49.375 Yes. It's no secret that we have had our fair share of infrastructure difficulties over the last year. 00:37:49.664 --> 00:37:55.143 Some mostly inflicted by some bad actors hurling traffic at us in all kinds 00:37:55.143 --> 00:37:56.603 of shapes and sizes at critical points. 00:37:56.903 --> 00:38:00.745 Some of it is our fault, and we're working hard to fix that. 00:38:01.064 --> 00:38:04.103 We have quite a lot of new infrastructure coming online over the coming weeks 00:38:04.103 --> 00:38:06.063 and indeed a plan on how we will 00:38:06.063 --> 00:38:10.724 do a more comprehensive job of global distribution of snaps if you will 00:38:11.118 --> 00:38:16.500 so more points of presence in more parts of the world the store itself is already, 00:38:17.039 --> 00:38:19.993 quite scalable it's built in such a way that i'm very confident we'll be able 00:38:19.993 --> 00:38:23.373 to scale it it's already i mean it's grown arms and legs it's no longer really 00:38:23.373 --> 00:38:27.634 the snap store it's the snap store it's the charm store It's the image store. 00:38:28.503 --> 00:38:33.603 There's a bunch of store backends that all essentially collect artifacts from 00:38:33.603 --> 00:38:38.243 RockCraft, CharmCraft, SnapCraft, ImageCraft, SDKCraft, etc. 00:38:38.623 --> 00:38:43.986 So the underlying engineering there, I think, is strong. 00:38:44.346 --> 00:38:49.433 How we deploy it and how we scale it to satisfy this is an obvious question, 00:38:49.433 --> 00:38:51.224 but a question to which I think we have an answer. 00:38:51.410 --> 00:38:55.961 Sure, sure. I think what I what I always think is absolutely wild about what 00:38:56.228 --> 00:39:00.738 you do at Canonical as a company is these just absolute insane support timelines, 00:39:01.226 --> 00:39:03.408 for enterprise customers that absolutely demand it. 00:39:03.728 --> 00:39:09.852 And it feels like if you're lucky and you get there, then like the 2030 versions, 00:39:10.328 --> 00:39:16.623 of an Ubuntu LTS could be versions that are truly supportable for a really, 00:39:16.623 --> 00:39:20.260 really, really long time in a way that's actually sustainable by the company. 00:39:20.893 --> 00:39:23.713 And that just is clearly a feature enterprises want. So, yeah, 00:39:23.713 --> 00:39:27.763 we've been talking a lot about the desktop, but this has to totally change the 00:39:27.763 --> 00:39:32.155 game for LTS enterprise support once they start making the transition, right? Right. 00:39:33.374 --> 00:39:36.642 I think so. And I think the cell for Ubuntu core is kind of more clear in the 00:39:36.642 --> 00:39:40.682 enterprise setting. So I want to be very clear that it is absolutely my intention 00:39:40.682 --> 00:39:44.583 to make this great for the tinkerers, the hackers, the Linux enthusiasts. I am one. 00:39:44.862 --> 00:39:47.242 Do you know what I mean? And all the time I'm doing this job, 00:39:47.242 --> 00:39:49.722 I'm somewhat committed to using Ubuntu and I don't want to build a thing I don't 00:39:49.722 --> 00:39:53.862 want to use. We've had nerdy conversations about the weird crimes I used to 00:39:53.862 --> 00:39:56.752 commit with NixOS and Arch and all kinds of other things. I don't want to build 00:39:56.752 --> 00:39:57.701 a thing I don't want to use. 00:39:58.582 --> 00:40:03.952 But I think the cell for enterprise is much clearer a system that where every 00:40:03.952 --> 00:40:05.277 application is confined 00:40:05.689 --> 00:40:08.862 there are very clear models about what every binary on the system can and can't 00:40:08.862 --> 00:40:13.012 do it's easy to roll out updates completely automatically the updates are atomic 00:40:13.012 --> 00:40:14.742 they're transactional right the, 00:40:15.242 --> 00:40:18.512 user user data is kind of backed up and snapshotted before apps are updated 00:40:18.512 --> 00:40:20.712 there's this kind of composability of okay well, 00:40:21.177 --> 00:40:24.762 my my workstations over there all have nvidia gpus in them because they're the 00:40:24.762 --> 00:40:27.842 ml people and the servers over here have melanux cards in them and they need 00:40:27.842 --> 00:40:31.254 something weird in the Enit ID, all of those problems, 00:40:32.376 --> 00:40:34.982 should be easier to solve with core. 00:40:35.115 --> 00:40:39.147 And then there's the application support levels too like all of that too yeah that's. 00:40:39.147 --> 00:40:44.147 Very right i think especially like legacy in quotes applications yeah you know 00:40:44.147 --> 00:40:45.527 the the whole point about snaps 00:40:45.527 --> 00:40:49.540 of course is they bring their runtime the base with them and so it is 00:40:49.969 --> 00:40:53.737 eminently possible to keep either very old versions of software working on very 00:40:53.737 --> 00:40:57.587 new linux or very new versions of software working on very old linux and the 00:40:57.587 --> 00:40:59.717 whole point is that the machinery takes care of that. 00:40:59.717 --> 00:41:03.948 And we see, like, that is something that is proven. Like, I am happy to be, 00:41:04.499 --> 00:41:08.357 you know, I'm happy for people to dispute snaps on the desktop where they, 00:41:08.717 --> 00:41:12.632 you know, I don't want to minimize that people have had bad experience with snaps on the desktop. 00:41:13.073 --> 00:41:15.467 I've seen apps that don't work. Some apps don't work. It's hard to make them 00:41:15.467 --> 00:41:19.917 work in the same way that, you know, you NixOS loving folks will recognize that 00:41:19.917 --> 00:41:22.917 sometimes packaging apps for Nix is hard. Like you have to patch them and they 00:41:22.917 --> 00:41:25.060 do unexpected things. And we have all of those problems. 00:41:25.734 --> 00:41:30.209 But I have to be honest with you, I run a basically stock Ubuntu system, 00:41:30.418 --> 00:41:33.227 and every single app that I interact with on a daily basis for the last year 00:41:33.227 --> 00:41:38.696 and a half has been a snap, and it has bitten me once or twice, and not for very long. 00:41:41.331 --> 00:41:45.509 And not only is support for snaps getting better, but the way that we understand 00:41:45.509 --> 00:41:46.931 them and facilitate them is getting better. 00:41:47.210 --> 00:41:50.999 And I think my hope is that we can build a system that's genuinely very compelling. 00:41:50.999 --> 00:41:52.789 Like I want an Ubuntu core home assistant. 00:41:53.050 --> 00:41:53.829 Yeah. No kidding. 00:41:54.019 --> 00:41:56.869 That automatically updates and snapshots the data and takes care of all the 00:41:56.869 --> 00:41:58.135 backups. Like I want that. 00:41:59.179 --> 00:42:03.644 And I think we can make something fun for the non-enterprise community too. 00:42:03.864 --> 00:42:07.409 Well, here's what I'm hearing. So we started talking about the recent security 00:42:07.409 --> 00:42:11.479 issues, and you mentioned the pipeline that you've been building out at Canonical 00:42:11.479 --> 00:42:13.083 to deliver patches faster. 00:42:13.489 --> 00:42:18.129 And then we talked about delivering Ubuntu core experience where individual 00:42:18.129 --> 00:42:19.779 components can be updated and swapped out. 00:42:19.779 --> 00:42:23.479 And with the rate of security issues we're seeing today, that just seems like 00:42:23.479 --> 00:42:26.889 a thing that not only enterprise users are going to want, but eventually regular 00:42:26.889 --> 00:42:29.729 users are going to appreciate the ability to have a stable base where those 00:42:29.729 --> 00:42:31.926 components can be updated when security issues come out. 00:42:32.326 --> 00:42:35.389 Like they're really, if you think about it, is a pretty complete security picture 00:42:35.389 --> 00:42:39.501 here from production of patches to deployment to end users that, 00:42:39.681 --> 00:42:41.504 you know, if you can execute 00:42:41.926 --> 00:42:45.559 in the right timeline, you may be meeting the market right where they're at 00:42:45.559 --> 00:42:48.532 when they realize they need something like this. So that's pretty exciting for you guys. 00:42:49.681 --> 00:42:54.076 Yeah. And we do have genuine use cases in the market with real customers, 00:42:54.076 --> 00:42:55.336 big customers, customers whose 00:42:55.336 --> 00:42:58.092 names you will definitely know where snaps have proven to be the thing. 00:42:58.255 --> 00:43:00.966 They were, they were reticent. They lean into it. We help them. 00:43:05.926 --> 00:43:08.606 And so, you know, I accept that there have been difficulties, 00:43:08.606 --> 00:43:13.726 but I also, I flatly reject the idea that they are just unsuitable for the desktop 00:43:13.726 --> 00:43:18.398 and they don't work because I have no evidence to support that in 2026. 00:43:18.648 --> 00:43:22.466 Sounds like you're going to try to prove it. You're going to try to prove it works. 00:43:22.466 --> 00:43:23.408 I'm not going to try, Chris. 00:43:25.226 --> 00:43:28.796 I love it, John. Very good. Well, thank you so much for coming on and updating 00:43:28.796 --> 00:43:30.676 us on everything. You guys have been super busy. 00:43:30.686 --> 00:43:35.786 There's been a lot going on. And we're absolutely going to follow the new core 00:43:35.786 --> 00:43:38.246 work with super interest. 00:43:38.246 --> 00:43:40.796 We're going to be trying it. We've already pulled down the images and been poking 00:43:40.796 --> 00:43:44.796 around. So we're already pretty excited. So keep up the great work, 00:43:44.796 --> 00:43:45.837 John. And thank you for joining us. 00:43:46.133 --> 00:43:47.463 Thank you very much for having me. I appreciate it. 00:44:00.239 --> 00:44:04.926 Canonical has introduced Mina, an open source privacy focused speech to text 00:44:04.926 --> 00:44:11.066 tool that runs entirely on your own Linux desktop without requiring cloud services. 00:44:12.685 --> 00:44:15.385 And you can get your hands on it right now. 00:44:15.623 --> 00:44:16.180 Right now. 00:44:16.778 --> 00:44:21.149 It's not installed by default on Ubuntu 26.10, but it is very easy to get up and going. 00:44:21.265 --> 00:44:22.954 Yeah, technical preview, I think, right? 00:44:23.088 --> 00:44:23.676 Mm-hmm. 00:44:23.676 --> 00:44:24.686 Technology preview. 00:44:24.686 --> 00:44:28.146 It's a snap, obviously, when you try it on Ubuntu. I think the goal is to try 00:44:28.146 --> 00:44:33.421 to have this thing in production shape by 2804, which will be the next LTS. 00:44:34.832 --> 00:44:38.355 And you can also get it installed outside of Ubuntu if you'd like. 00:44:39.225 --> 00:44:44.734 Like Brent said, it is entirely local. Speech recognition happens on your device. It's offline capable. 00:44:45.431 --> 00:44:48.229 And it supports multiple different backends, depending on the best fit for your 00:44:48.229 --> 00:44:50.592 hardware. And hardware accelerators if you got it. 00:44:50.940 --> 00:44:54.417 It feels to me like they've really been listening to their crowd with this one. 00:44:55.139 --> 00:45:00.029 Going all local is, of course, going to get the, well, dear folks of ours like 00:45:00.029 --> 00:45:04.679 PJ, who really, really, you know, that counts for a lot of people. 00:45:04.679 --> 00:45:07.914 So I feel like they're listening to their crowd, or at least our crowd. 00:45:08.558 --> 00:45:14.009 It feels like baby steps to me. But voice dictation is kind of, 00:45:14.009 --> 00:45:17.879 of all of the different local models that are pretty easy to run on different, 00:45:18.359 --> 00:45:20.989 grades of hardware, voice dictation is kind of where we're at. 00:45:20.989 --> 00:45:22.670 It's like the best showcase for that. 00:45:23.280 --> 00:45:26.159 Yeah, they've got it pretty nicely set up, especially if you're on Ubuntu. 00:45:26.159 --> 00:45:29.249 There's a wide, you know, the most recent few releases all support it because 00:45:29.249 --> 00:45:32.549 you can just do it in strictly confined snaps. So each piece, 00:45:32.549 --> 00:45:35.104 you know, there's Mina, Mina Whisper, Mina Parakeet. 00:45:35.302 --> 00:45:40.619 So you can have the inference side just attached via Snap. And Snap confinement 00:45:40.619 --> 00:45:43.991 is useful if you want to make sure that this kind of data is kept where it needs to go. 00:45:44.258 --> 00:45:47.109 Now, you can also install it by building it. You know, it's a Python app. 00:45:47.109 --> 00:45:49.259 You don't have to use Snaps if you don't want to. 00:45:49.719 --> 00:45:53.579 Yeah, it's got two parts. There's Python on the server. That does the inference 00:45:53.579 --> 00:45:57.615 part, right? So it's got adapters for Whisper, Parakeet, Fun ASR. 00:45:57.946 --> 00:46:01.005 You just kind of do pip extra. It's got UV in the repo there. 00:46:01.899 --> 00:46:04.354 All very standard, supports CPU as the default target. 00:46:05.619 --> 00:46:10.159 NVIDIA GPUs are also supported. There's plans to do other accelerators down the road. 00:46:10.159 --> 00:46:10.579 Nice. 00:46:10.579 --> 00:46:12.685 And then there's a client, which is Rust. 00:46:13.339 --> 00:46:14.246 Oh, wait for it. 00:46:14.908 --> 00:46:15.599 Yeah, come on. 00:46:15.883 --> 00:46:16.684 Sorry, sorry. 00:46:17.433 --> 00:46:24.341 Rust. Yeah, Mina Desktop Demon. No GTK, just Tokyo ZBus GetText, 00:46:24.637 --> 00:46:26.634 plus a little Mina Testbed CLI. 00:46:27.359 --> 00:46:32.469 There are GUI crates, too. So there is the pill, I think they call it, 00:46:32.469 --> 00:46:33.309 that you can get for the GUI. 00:46:33.359 --> 00:46:36.599 I haven't tried that yet. That needs GTK4 living with you. 00:46:37.761 --> 00:46:41.047 Kind of the interesting part on text injection, how it actually works, 00:46:41.772 --> 00:46:47.559 it's got the IBUS injector, which speaks the IBUS-DBUS wire protocol via that ZBUS library. 00:46:48.567 --> 00:46:54.117 No FFI. Registers the component and the engine and then becomes the global engine 00:46:54.117 --> 00:47:00.138 during dictation. So it hooks kind of right into how the system expects this to work and takes over. 00:47:00.463 --> 00:47:04.907 Yeah. It also has that, because of that, it has the smarts to reject password and pin fields. 00:47:04.907 --> 00:47:05.677 Oh, that's cool. 00:47:05.747 --> 00:47:07.187 I don't know if that's configurable. Mm-hmm. 00:47:07.802 --> 00:47:11.713 So functionally, the way this works is it's kind of like a push-to-talk system. 00:47:12.108 --> 00:47:16.777 And it sets up a hotkey on your box, and then it inputs the text into whatever 00:47:16.777 --> 00:47:18.569 is an active input field. 00:47:18.819 --> 00:47:25.117 And I have an Aurora Silverblue slash system here, and I've installed it on this system. 00:47:25.535 --> 00:47:30.167 And if I hold down super shift T, it should start working, and then it should 00:47:30.167 --> 00:47:33.208 transcribe and input whatever I say. So I'll give it a shot here. 00:47:33.579 --> 00:47:35.237 So what did I say? Super shift T? 00:47:35.237 --> 00:47:35.913 That's right. 00:47:37.277 --> 00:47:41.977 Okay i am now speaking and we'll see if it dictates whatever i say into the 00:47:41.977 --> 00:47:47.575 thingy hopefully it does and i'm going to release the super shift t now nothing happened. 00:47:47.726 --> 00:47:51.007 I don't see notifications because i was going to say if you don't install the gui part. 00:47:51.007 --> 00:47:52.097 You don't get the notification. 00:47:52.097 --> 00:47:56.207 Well no uh the main interface is system notifications which worked pretty well 00:47:56.207 --> 00:48:01.635 um i got it running on my system in plasma and so just pop up and say hey now transcribing and then. 00:48:01.838 --> 00:48:04.507 When it was done it would okay i'm going to try it again i because i do see 00:48:04.507 --> 00:48:07.357 it in my system tray i'm gonna try it again what i say was shift super shift 00:48:07.357 --> 00:48:12.287 t super shift t okay i'm trying you again and i do see my system tray icon changing, 00:48:12.804 --> 00:48:15.021 and i have firefox set as the input window, 00:48:16.548 --> 00:48:17.477 it didn't work this time. 00:48:17.715 --> 00:48:19.474 And for mine you didn't hold it it was just. 00:48:19.654 --> 00:48:22.377 Oh should i do that oh really i don't hold it maybe i'm doing it wrong. 00:48:22.377 --> 00:48:24.787 Yeah like triggers it it's press to talk again. 00:48:24.787 --> 00:48:27.879 Okay so with hex it's push to talk maybe that's what i'm thinking about, 00:48:29.672 --> 00:48:33.515 Okay, now I've just pressed it once. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, that was it. 00:48:34.123 --> 00:48:37.600 You only press it once. So it was capturing all of that, 00:48:39.673 --> 00:48:44.404 the entire time we were speaking. It was capturing all of that. So let's try it again. 00:48:45.623 --> 00:48:49.790 Okay, let's try it one more time. So I'll do super shift T, and then we'll see 00:48:49.790 --> 00:48:52.578 how it does, right? Super shift T. 00:48:54.117 --> 00:48:59.920 I am the captain of the USS Linux Unplugged, and I am trying to transcribe my 00:48:59.920 --> 00:49:01.756 text for future alien races. 00:49:02.458 --> 00:49:06.975 Then do I press it again to stop? Yep. Okay. Super shift T. 00:49:08.140 --> 00:49:10.818 Yeah, there it goes. Boom. Make it so it captured the whole thing. 00:49:12.600 --> 00:49:17.533 I am the captain of USS Linux Unplugged and I am trying to transcribe my text for future alien races. 00:49:17.807 --> 00:49:21.062 Then do I press it again to stop? Yep. Okay. Super shift. 00:49:22.137 --> 00:49:26.630 There we go. Yeah, I tested it over here earlier and from you talking way over there. 00:49:26.630 --> 00:49:27.250 You picked it up? 00:49:27.250 --> 00:49:27.478 Yeah. 00:49:27.622 --> 00:49:29.299 Huh. It's pretty quick. 00:49:30.460 --> 00:49:34.450 By default, it'll just auto-download Whisper Tiny. But you can change that. 00:49:34.450 --> 00:49:37.420 You can point it at local stuff if you want. It can do parakeet, too. 00:49:40.509 --> 00:49:44.270 I kind of prefer push-to-talk, but I think I could learn that. That seems fine to me. 00:49:44.839 --> 00:49:47.270 The thing is, I want to do it one more time. Brent, you try it, 00:49:47.270 --> 00:49:51.880 okay? And I want to watch while you do it. I want to watch what my CPU usage 00:49:51.880 --> 00:49:58.161 is. So before we start, my CPU usage is at a baseline of around 3.9% at the high end, all right? 00:49:58.521 --> 00:50:01.627 So I'm going to press it, super shift T, and then you speak now. 00:50:02.016 --> 00:50:05.348 Hello, I'm here reporting how many tabs I currently have open, 00:50:05.749 --> 00:50:10.961 but the counter that I'm using doesn't actually go that high, so I have no idea. 00:50:12.512 --> 00:50:18.169 Okay, super shift T again. And I saw it look like, I'm going to run it one more 00:50:18.169 --> 00:50:21.119 time, but it looked like CPU usage was only 10% there for a second. 00:50:21.119 --> 00:50:22.775 That doesn't seem right. Maybe that capture was too slow. 00:50:23.071 --> 00:50:24.145 It does, I think, use... 00:50:24.551 --> 00:50:24.939 The GPU? 00:50:25.259 --> 00:50:28.329 No, it's aimed at CPU by default. So they have kind of put some thought into that. 00:50:29.426 --> 00:50:30.719 Okay, so they've put thought into... 00:50:30.819 --> 00:50:34.419 Because if it's, you know, they're going for some sort of like intent-driven 00:50:34.419 --> 00:50:38.129 Ubuntu maybe in the future. So they want, if you ever wanted it to be a widely 00:50:38.129 --> 00:50:41.329 deployed feature, you're going to need it to be able to run ideally right across 00:50:41.329 --> 00:50:43.939 a lot like whatever people have, even if they don't have a nice. 00:50:44.450 --> 00:50:48.699 Okay. So if you, by the way, if you're dictating and it loses focus, it stops dictating. 00:50:49.703 --> 00:50:52.629 All right. I'm going to run it one more time. I'm now using a plasma system 00:50:52.629 --> 00:50:58.045 monitor and I'm going to do, okay, I'm going to do some dictation here, boys. Super shift T. 00:50:59.119 --> 00:51:03.583 Okay. I'm doing one more real world test here and my CPU usage is at 24%. 00:51:03.873 --> 00:51:07.838 So we went from about 4% to 24% and I'm going to do super shift T to stop it. 00:51:08.923 --> 00:51:15.839 Oh, now the, okay. Okay, CPU spiked to 60% after I stopped it for just two seconds 00:51:15.839 --> 00:51:17.898 maybe, maybe at that much, and then it's done. 00:51:18.716 --> 00:51:22.841 So after you release it, it takes on this system about one to two seconds. 00:51:22.841 --> 00:51:27.079 And then it gives you the whole everything you said all at once. It's pretty quick. 00:51:27.329 --> 00:51:30.721 Yeah. So I think that's the sort of Rust part running. And then it calls over 00:51:30.721 --> 00:51:32.521 to the Python server to do the inference. 00:51:32.521 --> 00:51:36.321 I mean, I maybe. So, I mean, if you're being fair, at the very highest end, 00:51:36.321 --> 00:51:40.651 I paid a 20% CPU tax. But actually watching it, my CPU is bouncing around 17% 00:51:40.651 --> 00:51:41.831 without this running at the moment. 00:51:41.831 --> 00:51:43.161 So who knows? 00:51:44.201 --> 00:51:48.751 Actually pretty darn impressive. That is pretty freaking impressive. 00:51:48.751 --> 00:51:52.941 Fast too it doesn't feel it doesn't feel like my system's heavy like i don't 00:51:52.941 --> 00:51:55.561 feel like i'm using a ton of system resources to have that run. 00:51:55.561 --> 00:51:57.011 It seemed like you could just have it sitting there. 00:51:57.011 --> 00:51:59.210 Yeah which is a real sweet spot. 00:51:59.396 --> 00:52:04.991 Do you think it's smooth enough to you know move to a new web page go to a new 00:52:04.991 --> 00:52:09.221 entry for i don't know sending a message or recording something and just like boop, 00:52:09.810 --> 00:52:13.541 say it and then boop out because we've been doing like the slow experimenting 00:52:13.541 --> 00:52:16.230 version but how do you think that would translate to just everyday use. 00:52:16.602 --> 00:52:19.661 I think as long as you have the act as long as a text field is the active input 00:52:19.661 --> 00:52:22.021 box and it doesn't switch in the middle of dictation you're good to go. 00:52:22.021 --> 00:52:26.371 Yeah i had to work with slack and open code i would say you might eventually 00:52:26.371 --> 00:52:29.191 want something bigger than whisper tiny i had a. 00:52:29.191 --> 00:52:29.720 Few things. 00:52:29.871 --> 00:52:34.102 Like it kind of struggled with mina itself a bit and it got my name is west at one point. 00:52:34.857 --> 00:52:39.031 So the one nice thing about hex that i'd love to see and i don't have the gtk 00:52:39.031 --> 00:52:44.201 toolkit stuff to install to see if this is an option but with hex you can go 00:52:44.201 --> 00:52:47.541 in there and there's like a technical database and a common miss, 00:52:49.044 --> 00:52:52.541 transcribed words and you can you can put in there and say when you pick up 00:52:52.541 --> 00:52:56.481 this word insert this word instead and when you when it mistakes you know apt 00:52:56.481 --> 00:52:59.661 get for you know something else replace it with actual app dash get, 00:53:00.306 --> 00:53:02.711 and so i like that feature i don't know if this has it just because i don't 00:53:02.711 --> 00:53:06.611 have the gdk4 dependencies to show that but i think the performance of this 00:53:06.611 --> 00:53:08.996 might be better than hex having tried that recently. 00:53:09.141 --> 00:53:12.531 So So there's some interesting technical... I mean, so there's like the style, 00:53:12.531 --> 00:53:18.603 push to talk versus, you know, toggle on to talk or however Brent said it. In a way... 00:53:20.174 --> 00:53:24.674 They take kind of very different approaches. So Mina is like the Linux desktop, 00:53:24.959 --> 00:53:27.074 you know, kind of makes sense because it's coming from Canonical. 00:53:27.074 --> 00:53:30.944 Like it plays inside like the sort of the proper way to do it. 00:53:30.944 --> 00:53:34.856 Like you would expect it to be done. It's in the input method framework, iBus, Dbus. 00:53:35.315 --> 00:53:39.984 So the sort of correct desktop citizen approach. Hex bypasses all of it. 00:53:39.984 --> 00:53:40.784 Of course. 00:53:40.784 --> 00:53:45.574 X test, synthetic key events, clipboard paste on X11. W type on WL roots, 00:53:45.574 --> 00:53:48.260 Wayland. Remote desktop portal on GNOME and KDE. 00:53:49.543 --> 00:53:52.248 So sort of cruder, but compositor agnostic. 00:53:52.248 --> 00:53:52.608 Yeah. 00:53:52.608 --> 00:53:55.818 So I think that makes it, you know, because it also supports Mac and Windows. 00:53:55.818 --> 00:53:59.876 Yeah, that's, I guess, Hex's advantage there, but I don't care about that too much. 00:54:00.752 --> 00:54:04.378 I care about this. I care about it being a better Linux citizen. 00:54:04.378 --> 00:54:08.238 Yeah, Hex might be a little farther along in some ways and a little more, you know, developed. 00:54:08.238 --> 00:54:12.467 Especially with the annotation features. I think it kind of pulled ahead there, but who cares? 00:54:12.937 --> 00:54:20.178 And I think mine is maybe putting more thought into some of the privacy security architecture. 00:54:20.178 --> 00:54:24.608 Not that that's a problem in Hex, but just like they've taken this modular snap-based 00:54:24.608 --> 00:54:27.948 approach. They're really being careful about that kind of thing and integrating 00:54:27.948 --> 00:54:29.528 with these first-class protocols. 00:54:30.228 --> 00:54:34.268 And seemingly picking very good models. I don't know where Hex is on that, 00:54:34.268 --> 00:54:36.957 but I like the model flexibility with Manure, however you say it. 00:54:37.386 --> 00:54:39.678 Yeah, they both seem to have pretty good model flexibility, which is great. 00:54:39.678 --> 00:54:42.094 Yeah, that is true. That is true. Both of them seem to do. 00:54:44.248 --> 00:54:45.194 Better than I expected. 00:54:45.740 --> 00:54:49.048 Yeah i got i was able to get it running uh yeah it wasn't packaged for nix but 00:54:49.228 --> 00:54:52.548 yeah just a rust and a python which are both pretty standard and then on kde 00:54:52.548 --> 00:54:57.548 you just register like a global shortcut and then you can tie it immediately 00:54:57.548 --> 00:54:59.770 into the rust side of things the rust client and then, 00:55:00.664 --> 00:55:05.018 away you go i think there is a bug on some older firefoxes that it can interact 00:55:05.018 --> 00:55:09.227 weirdly with like it just won't show up or i think some people had firefox crash 00:55:09.540 --> 00:55:13.830 but that was fixed in recent firefoxes so just be updated there which you probably want to do anyway. 00:55:14.457 --> 00:55:17.243 I feel like this is a workflow for you Brad. 00:55:17.551 --> 00:55:24.735 I remember about a year and a half of go I after one of the shows said hey Chris I really, 00:55:25.729 --> 00:55:31.248 am trying to get working a way to just talk at my computer and I tried for a 00:55:31.248 --> 00:55:36.613 little bit and never got it there well they're doing the work for me so bring it on. 00:55:37.698 --> 00:55:41.515 You're going to, if you try this, you're going to find the brain dump aspect 00:55:41.515 --> 00:55:44.585 of it so useful, especially if you're working with a clanker in an open code 00:55:44.585 --> 00:55:50.625 session, because they're really good at parsing a brain dump into structured information. 00:55:50.625 --> 00:55:56.105 Like they're really good at that. So you can just blah, and then it cleans it all up. Boom. 00:55:56.453 --> 00:56:00.295 I think even for like an everyday task, like journaling or something like that, 00:56:00.295 --> 00:56:04.267 or capturing some kind of memory or a note, like where you just, 00:56:04.813 --> 00:56:08.445 you want it in text, but actually you just want a stream of consciousness. 00:56:09.005 --> 00:56:11.460 This is a perfect tool, especially if you're just sitting at your desk. 00:56:11.628 --> 00:56:15.483 Pretty good. I think if this is the direction they're going, it bodes well. 00:56:16.353 --> 00:56:19.845 You'd really have to find something. You'd really have to dig to find something 00:56:19.845 --> 00:56:22.342 you don't like about what they're doing here. You really have to dig. 00:56:23.044 --> 00:56:25.335 And the fact that you don't even have to use snaps if you don't like snaps you 00:56:25.335 --> 00:56:28.125 can't even complain about that but if you do use a snap it's really easy to 00:56:28.125 --> 00:56:32.657 get going a gpl3 good work guys good work we're very impressed. 00:56:43.913 --> 00:56:48.418 We received some wonderful feedback recently and there's a bit of a theme here 00:56:48.545 --> 00:56:53.495 what are you building a little bit of a building report going on here and we've 00:56:53.495 --> 00:56:55.575 got a first note from pedro, 00:56:57.997 --> 00:57:00.818 Pager says, hey there, Linux team. Aw, Drew, you're included. 00:57:01.143 --> 00:57:05.535 After reading back in August about the teenager that got his HP printer working 00:57:05.535 --> 00:57:12.045 on macOS with CloudCode, I tried something similar with a BioKey side-touch fingerprint reader, 00:57:12.440 --> 00:57:15.085 which was Windows only, to get it working on Linux. 00:57:16.618 --> 00:57:21.015 Working with CloudCode and Codex, I've now built a native Linux driver that 00:57:21.015 --> 00:57:25.395 lets me enroll a fingerprint and authenticate through the normal Fedora and 00:57:25.395 --> 00:57:28.240 KDE desktop tools. It's still experimental. 00:57:29.045 --> 00:57:30.469 And I'm testing it on my own hardware. 00:57:31.740 --> 00:57:35.865 That is so neat. I've been wondering if things like fingerprint readers, 00:57:35.865 --> 00:57:36.945 the other thing unlock would be. 00:57:36.945 --> 00:57:38.065 You know, this one doesn't work. 00:57:38.065 --> 00:57:42.352 I know. You know what would be amazing is I have an LTE adapter in one of those Nix books. 00:57:42.845 --> 00:57:43.055 Oh, yeah. 00:57:43.165 --> 00:57:46.325 But they don't support no Linux. I know. I love that. 00:57:46.805 --> 00:57:47.755 Go for them. Go for them. 00:57:47.765 --> 00:57:51.750 We're in like the golden age of fix the little thing that's been bothering me forever. 00:57:52.418 --> 00:57:53.294 Golden age, brother. 00:57:53.520 --> 00:57:54.915 Pedro has a reality check for us. 00:57:55.125 --> 00:57:57.096 Oh, no, really? Oh, it was going so well. 00:57:57.230 --> 00:58:02.118 Page was continuing. Getting there was a much longer effort than I actually expected. 00:58:02.582 --> 00:58:06.843 Read, it was brutal. Plenty of false starts and dead ends. 00:58:07.342 --> 00:58:11.875 This isn't something someone could simply vibe code without a background in 00:58:11.875 --> 00:58:13.175 software architecture. 00:58:13.906 --> 00:58:17.435 It's given me enormous respect for the people who brought unsupported hardware 00:58:17.435 --> 00:58:19.775 to Linux, particularly before these LLMs. 00:58:19.775 --> 00:58:20.845 Yeah, I know. 00:58:21.445 --> 00:58:25.795 Missing features and incomplete hardware support are still barriers to adoption 00:58:25.795 --> 00:58:30.085 and I hope projects like this encourage others to help close these gaps. 00:58:30.526 --> 00:58:36.348 Happy to talk about what worked, where AI fell short and show the driver in use best. 00:58:36.703 --> 00:58:42.415 Pedro Man, how great would that be to sit down over a meal with Pedro and chat about it? 00:58:42.415 --> 00:58:43.205 That's so fun You know. 00:58:43.205 --> 00:58:44.235 That'd be a great convo. 00:58:44.235 --> 00:58:46.020 What can I need to find a meetup location? 00:58:46.350 --> 00:58:46.763 Good idea, 00:58:48.729 --> 00:58:49.679 Wes, we want to take Anton? 00:58:49.679 --> 00:58:55.169 Yeah, Anton writes in, hey, Linux Unplugged Crew. I set up an Intel N150 mini 00:58:55.169 --> 00:58:59.239 PC as a home server with Jellyfin, Sonar, Radar, Browler, and a request app. 00:58:59.239 --> 00:58:59.889 Oh, nice. 00:58:59.889 --> 00:59:02.040 To simplify that stack, I built Torsure. 00:59:02.197 --> 00:59:03.857 Wait, this is the developer of Torsure? 00:59:04.322 --> 00:59:04.647 Yeah. 00:59:04.838 --> 00:59:05.448 Wow. 00:59:06.075 --> 00:59:09.877 One Docker container with one database and one interface made for the TV first. 00:59:10.103 --> 00:59:12.189 Version 1.0 came out on October 26th. 00:59:12.189 --> 00:59:15.779 I've been watching. Well, my clanker found it the day you launched this and 00:59:15.779 --> 00:59:18.884 alerted me about this and said, this is right up your alley. And it was right. 00:59:19.640 --> 00:59:23.099 A few details. Playback starts while the file downloads, fetching a few minutes 00:59:23.099 --> 00:59:26.329 ahead and stopping when you close the player. How much have we been talking about that? 00:59:26.329 --> 00:59:27.866 Love that so much. 00:59:28.892 --> 00:59:36.306 TV interface for the browser engine of LG TVs from 2020 with LG WebOS app and Magic Remote Pointer. 00:59:36.676 --> 00:59:41.513 Library Jellyfin plaques Cody can read with hard links so kept files take no extra space. 00:59:41.919 --> 00:59:45.622 On-the-fly GPU transcoding when a TV can't play a file. 00:59:53.564 --> 00:59:58.229 So for those that are not quite following, what this is solving is typically 00:59:58.229 --> 01:00:01.019 with the home media stack, if you really want the full automated, 01:00:01.019 --> 01:00:05.673 like backing up off the internet stack, you're looking at anywhere from three to five containers. 01:00:06.613 --> 01:00:11.279 It's a lot. This is doing it all in a single stack and providing the interface 01:00:11.279 --> 01:00:13.589 as well. Really impressive. 01:00:13.589 --> 01:00:15.302 Turning it into one focus product. 01:00:16.489 --> 01:00:18.739 It was already on my, I should be looking at this and following it. 01:00:18.739 --> 01:00:19.589 Thanks for writing in. 01:00:19.589 --> 01:00:19.749 Yes. 01:00:19.829 --> 01:00:20.319 That's awesome. 01:00:20.319 --> 01:00:23.620 Yes. That's really great. Thank you, Anton. Appreciate that. 01:00:23.905 --> 01:00:29.089 We'll put a link to Torsher, T-O-R-S-H-E-R, in the show notes. 01:00:29.936 --> 01:00:34.299 Koya writes in, hi, Chris West and Brent. Your Oops All Shells episodes seem 01:00:34.299 --> 01:00:39.207 like a good reason to mention Koya Shell, a hyperlink shell built by my boss, Stefan. 01:00:39.514 --> 01:00:43.919 It brings desktop controls, launcher, and notifications together with a shared 01:00:43.919 --> 01:00:48.509 theme from login to lock screen underneath the JavaScript UI on Koya's own GPU 01:00:48.509 --> 01:00:50.132 render without a browser underneath. 01:00:51.519 --> 01:00:55.349 That is nice. There's a live ISO to try it from. Great. 01:00:55.709 --> 01:01:01.039 You can try it out when it boots. The shell is CEC by four, so it's Creative Commons 4.0. 01:01:01.509 --> 01:01:04.290 Runtime is an open source, but it is free for non-commercial use. 01:01:05.143 --> 01:01:07.829 Would you be having a play? Interested to hear where it's among the shells you've 01:01:07.829 --> 01:01:10.483 discussed? Well, I would be interested in taking a look at this. 01:01:10.610 --> 01:01:13.809 Yeah, I saw this float through. I just thought, like, maybe we can see what 01:01:13.809 --> 01:01:14.668 it looks like. I don't know. 01:01:14.906 --> 01:01:18.039 I have been pretty happy with the recent shell setup, but I think there's room 01:01:18.039 --> 01:01:19.649 for improvement in terms of efficiency. 01:01:19.649 --> 01:01:20.688 It seems very clean. 01:01:21.048 --> 01:01:24.169 Yeah. I do like the way it looks a lot. 01:01:24.529 --> 01:01:28.169 And it just seemed like worth seeing because there are clearly folks out there 01:01:28.169 --> 01:01:30.689 also experimenting with the shells. 01:01:30.689 --> 01:01:31.779 We're building our own shells. 01:01:31.779 --> 01:01:32.619 It's a whole new thing. 01:01:32.619 --> 01:01:36.593 It's absolutely crazy. It's absolutely crazy, and I'm here for it. 01:01:36.953 --> 01:01:37.998 I'm here for that craziness. 01:01:38.770 --> 01:01:42.375 Thank you very much, Koya. Or not Koya. The project name is Koya. 01:01:42.834 --> 01:01:43.931 Thank you very much for sending that in. 01:01:44.732 --> 01:01:50.569 Gentlemen, we did get a couple of uplinks as well, and we have a few that I 01:01:50.569 --> 01:01:54.239 have to play really we fell behind because I meant to play some more in we're. 01:01:54.239 --> 01:01:54.809 New at this. 01:01:55.189 --> 01:02:00.458 I know we're figuring it out so we'll let the agent pick one and we're going to clank away, 01:02:02.061 --> 01:02:09.530 All right. Up first is Matthew. Matthew is calling in about an agentic installer, I believe. Let's see. 01:02:09.570 --> 01:02:11.090 Hey, guys. My name is Matt Mangano. 01:02:11.090 --> 01:02:11.450 Hey, Matt. 01:02:11.450 --> 01:02:16.030 I'm an aerospace engineer by trade, and I work with AI workflows and helping, 01:02:16.690 --> 01:02:20.655 the company I work with work through that process. 01:02:21.154 --> 01:02:27.040 And I also am a big open cloth fan, try to contribute a little bit here and there. 01:02:27.331 --> 01:02:38.784 But I have just built a small little project where I just embedded an agent into a live ISO. 01:02:39.161 --> 01:02:46.250 So, you know, your girlfriend, your mom, your dad, a lot of people can't install 01:02:46.250 --> 01:02:48.304 Linux easily, especially Nix. 01:02:49.012 --> 01:02:56.953 So when you boot up the live ISO, you can sign in with your ChatGPT subscription or use an API. 01:02:57.650 --> 01:03:02.427 And basically just tell the agent what you want and the agent will install it. 01:03:02.799 --> 01:03:08.858 There's also some markdown files that, you know, kind of guide the agent to, 01:03:09.781 --> 01:03:13.070 make it a little bit easier for the user. So it's called... 01:03:16.689 --> 01:03:21.330 Agent-installer on my GitHub repo. So I'll try to send it to you guys. 01:03:21.330 --> 01:03:25.048 I don't know if I can paste it into this or not. 01:03:26.378 --> 01:03:28.769 Anyway, it's a great listen to you guys. Have a good one. 01:03:29.180 --> 01:03:32.880 Thank you, sir. Brent, I want you to build that for me. I'm going to play one 01:03:32.880 --> 01:03:35.885 more. I'm going to play one more and let the bot pick again. 01:03:37.405 --> 01:03:40.960 All right. I'm not even going to see who this one is, but I think this is one 01:03:40.960 --> 01:03:41.991 of the queue we needed to get to. 01:03:42.496 --> 01:03:44.670 Hey, guys. All right. 741 again. 01:03:44.670 --> 01:03:45.210 Hey, it's Ari. 01:03:45.710 --> 01:03:50.979 On the launch, you had mentioned that it seemed like your VR episode didn't 01:03:51.397 --> 01:03:54.671 get as much of a response as you were hoping. 01:03:55.333 --> 01:03:59.360 And I don't personally know how this will make you feel, but I think that that 01:03:59.360 --> 01:04:01.823 kind of was more of like a reference episode. 01:04:02.554 --> 01:04:05.910 And I think you've kind of had these types of reference episodes in the past, 01:04:05.910 --> 01:04:11.920 like the PCAE pass-through episode that you guys have done around being able 01:04:11.920 --> 01:04:15.487 to do PCAE pass-through with the Linux kernel. Um... 01:04:16.328 --> 01:04:21.017 Where it might not get very much signal at that time. But over the years, 01:04:21.017 --> 01:04:25.309 I think people will keep referring back to that type of content, 01:04:25.825 --> 01:04:31.578 for help and assistance as they end up either acquiring a VR headset or either. 01:04:32.873 --> 01:04:37.383 Wanting to perform the thing that you're talking about in the reference episode. 01:04:37.946 --> 01:04:43.257 So personally, I think that makes it a really sticky topic, even though it might 01:04:43.257 --> 01:04:46.471 not get as much immediate response as you're expecting. 01:04:46.816 --> 01:04:52.127 So I think long term that's really good for the show though but like I said 01:04:52.127 --> 01:04:53.498 I don't know how to make you feel. 01:04:54.009 --> 01:04:59.907 I actually ended up using the PCA pass through episode reference links whenever 01:04:59.907 --> 01:05:01.977 I was working on a project on my old job, 01:05:03.069 --> 01:05:07.957 that episode really gave me a lot more confidence in the technology and what 01:05:07.957 --> 01:05:13.277 I was doing because you all did your deep dive which was really helpful so I 01:05:13.277 --> 01:05:17.134 just wanted to say thank you for all the awesome content you guys have continued to make. 01:05:17.977 --> 01:05:22.937 I love being a member of the network and I've been really appreciative of all 01:05:22.937 --> 01:05:27.877 the new member features as well and even though the bootleg to me was enough 01:05:27.877 --> 01:05:31.657 in the first place I'm glad you guys have been able to find ways to make the 01:05:31.657 --> 01:05:32.917 membership more enticing, 01:05:33.677 --> 01:05:36.424 for new people. So thanks guys. See ya. 01:05:36.799 --> 01:05:39.657 Thank you sir and thank you again for all your work you did on the website and 01:05:39.657 --> 01:05:41.537 in the community. It's good to hear from you. 01:05:41.537 --> 01:05:42.604 Support all kinds of ways. 01:05:43.016 --> 01:05:47.337 Absolutely. And I like the idea of a reference episode. It does make me feel 01:05:47.337 --> 01:05:48.577 slightly better. I will be honest. 01:05:49.796 --> 01:05:52.837 So I haven't put this all together yet, but we want more of your uplinks. 01:05:52.837 --> 01:05:56.008 We'll try to feature them from time to time. And I think there's going to be, 01:05:57.070 --> 01:06:03.109 Probably some sort of trifecta of HomeLab submission and maybe an uplink to 01:06:03.109 --> 01:06:06.639 go with that where you can reference your HomeLab submission and then possibly 01:06:06.639 --> 01:06:08.859 to put in front of us a boost, especially if you're a member, 01:06:08.859 --> 01:06:10.629 that could be a great idea because you get it for free anyways. 01:06:11.919 --> 01:06:16.099 And that kind of trifecta could be, you know, that could be a way to get your 01:06:16.099 --> 01:06:20.619 HomeLab a little extra juice with a little uplink and a boost to go with it. I'm just saying. 01:06:20.959 --> 01:06:23.435 I'm just saying something to think about as you're strategizing out there. 01:06:24.282 --> 01:06:29.809 Because you know the winners of last year's home lab special they're still they're 01:06:29.809 --> 01:06:33.999 still glowing they're still like they still you know and brent still have a. 01:06:33.999 --> 01:06:35.381 Lot to glow about they were impressive. 01:06:35.538 --> 01:06:38.399 Brent still sending them their checks you know he's gonna get that yeah writing 01:06:38.399 --> 01:06:40.709 those checks so they're gonna get that any day behind. 01:06:40.709 --> 01:06:42.129 By one but we'll get. 01:06:42.129 --> 01:06:47.149 There yeah yeah we'll get gentlemen we do have some picks and i think this one 01:06:47.149 --> 01:06:56.882 wes found just for brent This is a tab management extension for the Firefox called List All Tabs. 01:06:57.682 --> 01:07:01.679 And like tab management tools, it offers a lot of your standard features, 01:07:01.679 --> 01:07:05.787 but it brings in something kind of new to the mix that caught my attention, Wes. 01:07:06.309 --> 01:07:10.768 And that's this dashboard, if you will, of your open tabs. 01:07:11.168 --> 01:07:12.599 Former dashboard guy. That makes sense. 01:07:12.599 --> 01:07:16.389 Yeah, well, I'm kind of a dashboard guy, and I noticed that this kind of looks 01:07:16.389 --> 01:07:20.229 like a dashboard of your tabs, And I thought, you must be thinking of Brent when you found this. 01:07:20.229 --> 01:07:24.639 Oh, yeah. Well, actually, someone sent it in for Brent. I've lost the name, unfortunately. 01:07:24.639 --> 01:07:26.591 It's almost like he has a reputation. It's just... 01:07:33.558 --> 01:07:35.996 Oh, Sudo Satur. That's who I found this from. 01:07:35.996 --> 01:07:39.666 Thank you, Sudo. Thank you. Appreciate that. List all tabs. This actually is 01:07:39.666 --> 01:07:42.266 really nice. What do you think of, as a tab connoisseur, Brent, 01:07:42.266 --> 01:07:43.363 what do you think of something like this? 01:07:43.595 --> 01:07:45.996 Well, Sudo sent this in and I was a little hesitant because, 01:07:45.996 --> 01:07:49.036 you know, tabs and precious and all that stuff. 01:07:49.036 --> 01:07:49.976 Yeah, obviously. 01:07:49.976 --> 01:07:51.046 You're very special tabs. 01:07:52.006 --> 01:07:58.118 I don't want to mess with my tabs. But Wes was like, come on, just try it. And so I did. 01:07:58.604 --> 01:08:01.322 Well, you're the QA guy. I send all the new stuff to you. 01:08:01.560 --> 01:08:03.540 Yeah, it turns out this thing's fantastic. 01:08:04.108 --> 01:08:08.125 Oh ladies and gentlemen ladies and gentlemen oh. 01:08:10.209 --> 01:08:16.655 It was super easy to install in Firefox because it's already set up as an extension that you can add. 01:08:17.255 --> 01:08:20.245 It's got raving reviews already. 01:08:20.965 --> 01:08:26.846 And also, I guess it's based on an older project, but there's been some modernization. 01:08:27.351 --> 01:08:32.705 And the interface on here, just to manage your tabs, is really nice. 01:08:32.705 --> 01:08:37.869 It's got an important thing right at the top. Somehow, that's exactly what I need. 01:08:38.635 --> 01:08:44.475 You can sort by like tab order or last recently used or least recently used, 01:08:44.975 --> 01:08:49.435 most recently used, which is that's just how did you get in my brain to design this thing? 01:08:49.815 --> 01:08:51.778 That is really clever. Yeah. Okay. 01:08:51.883 --> 01:08:59.794 It also lists, it can list all of your tabs by URL instead of by window, for instance. 01:09:00.089 --> 01:09:06.509 So if you have a, let's say a bunch of GitHub links, but open in various windows and tabs. 01:09:06.863 --> 01:09:09.995 Or for me, like a bunch of Wikipedia tabs, you know, the Wikipedia rabbit hole 01:09:09.995 --> 01:09:11.075 thing. Yeah, definitely. 01:09:11.075 --> 01:09:15.005 Combines them all in one place. So you can reference them all under one little 01:09:15.005 --> 01:09:17.725 section in the extension. It's fantastic. 01:09:17.835 --> 01:09:19.895 See, tabs is data. This is what I'm saying. 01:09:19.895 --> 01:09:20.429 You were right. 01:09:20.969 --> 01:09:21.685 This looks great. 01:09:21.685 --> 01:09:27.585 But I'm not done yet. It also has a little, you know, sleepy button, 01:09:27.585 --> 01:09:31.425 which unloads all of the tabs in that particular section. 01:09:31.425 --> 01:09:35.235 So for instance, I have github.com here and it's got a little Z beside it. 01:09:35.235 --> 01:09:37.867 So you hit that and they all get just... 01:09:38.681 --> 01:09:41.847 Automatically put to sleep instead of the browser trying to guess because like 01:09:41.847 --> 01:09:45.447 i know what i'm not using and i could just hit a nice little button here it's fantastic. 01:09:45.447 --> 01:09:46.657 I'll be dipped that's. 01:09:46.657 --> 01:09:51.767 Great right uh there's also an unload all button because if you have too many 01:09:51.767 --> 01:09:54.760 tabs then you need that which so that speaks to me, 01:09:55.427 --> 01:09:59.340 um but you can also look at them like listed by window which of course is handy, 01:09:59.886 --> 01:10:04.847 and there's a saved section so you can also save particular tabs into like a 01:10:05.247 --> 01:10:06.973 spot where for some reason, 01:10:07.531 --> 01:10:09.533 these are more important, which is awesome. 01:10:10.189 --> 01:10:11.167 I'm installing this right now. 01:10:11.167 --> 01:10:13.777 Oh, I'm telling you, it's great. And I could keep going. Like it has a recently 01:10:13.777 --> 01:10:17.137 closed part so that in case, you know, you did the wrong thing and you want 01:10:17.137 --> 01:10:18.637 to bring it back, you can do that. 01:10:18.637 --> 01:10:22.137 It also has a little trash icon so you can quickly delete tabs. 01:10:22.137 --> 01:10:25.897 It also has a save, you know, save button beside all the tabs so you can put 01:10:25.897 --> 01:10:28.115 them in that super great save section. 01:10:28.516 --> 01:10:28.947 Oh, all right. 01:10:29.547 --> 01:10:33.857 But best part is it also detects duplicates so that you're not, 01:10:33.857 --> 01:10:35.772 you know, saving the same page four times. 01:10:36.236 --> 01:10:39.267 Yeah, that's not a problem I have, but I could probably understand why you would have that problem. 01:10:39.747 --> 01:10:40.437 It seems handy. 01:10:40.437 --> 01:10:43.377 Also, these are just the features I've found so far. I've only used it for like 01:10:43.377 --> 01:10:48.557 12 minutes. So really huge thank you, SayShirt. I will, well, 01:10:48.557 --> 01:10:52.924 I'm already using this. So great. It works for my brain. I hope it works for other people too. 01:10:53.116 --> 01:10:57.547 Okay. All right. Our next pick is to reduce your browser dependence. 01:10:57.547 --> 01:10:59.635 And I understand it's hard. 01:11:00.564 --> 01:11:04.685 I get it. There's a lot of good web apps or bad web apps that you have to use 01:11:04.981 --> 01:11:06.421 every single day. I'm there with you. 01:11:07.350 --> 01:11:11.471 So what if I could get you to try out Tangram? 01:11:11.814 --> 01:11:12.627 Tangram. 01:11:12.967 --> 01:11:13.567 Tangram. Yeah. 01:11:14.281 --> 01:11:14.531 Yeah. 01:11:15.535 --> 01:11:21.751 This is another take at the attempt to make one browser for all of the web apps 01:11:21.751 --> 01:11:26.141 you have to use, where you can kind of have separate, 01:11:26.739 --> 01:11:30.628 isolated environments, and they are each one individually sandboxed, 01:11:31.266 --> 01:11:33.240 persistent, independent tabs. 01:11:33.838 --> 01:11:38.071 You can change their position. It supports smart notifications for desktop integration. 01:11:38.071 --> 01:11:40.701 So, like, if you've got to be in, like, a work messaging application. That's nice. 01:11:41.141 --> 01:11:44.450 It's got that. It's got touchpad and touchscreen support. 01:11:46.429 --> 01:11:51.089 And the idea is that you put your Discord in here, your web telegram, 01:11:51.455 --> 01:11:57.422 your WhatsApp, if you use Element in the web, whatever it might be, your Mastodon. 01:11:57.817 --> 01:12:03.021 You put it all in here as individual isolated tabs that this thing then keeps 01:12:03.021 --> 01:12:05.207 persistent and independently manages them for you. 01:12:05.637 --> 01:12:09.761 And then gives you an interface to see an overview of those or pop through the different tabs. 01:12:10.381 --> 01:12:12.421 A browser for your pin tabs. I like it. 01:12:13.021 --> 01:12:13.700 I have a question. 01:12:14.176 --> 01:12:14.483 Yeah. 01:12:15.075 --> 01:12:16.431 Oh, that little tagline, browser 01:12:16.431 --> 01:12:20.550 for your pin tabs. I don't really know what a pin tab is. Can you... 01:12:28.259 --> 01:12:31.004 Do you think this will maybe nudge me into the pin tabs era? 01:12:31.968 --> 01:12:34.743 I mean, you could think of it as another way to have a bunch of tabs. 01:12:35.776 --> 01:12:38.553 Well, I was thinking maybe the ones that work for you in here is how you learn 01:12:38.553 --> 01:12:42.273 what a pin tab is. Like if it works for you in Tangram, then it would have been 01:12:42.273 --> 01:12:44.216 a pin tab if you ever had learned those. 01:12:44.395 --> 01:12:46.369 But GPL3 and available on FlatHub. 01:12:46.943 --> 01:12:48.323 So pretty convenient, what's your excuse? 01:12:48.343 --> 01:12:54.298 Okay. All right. Now this next one, we're getting a little serious here. 01:12:55.744 --> 01:13:00.423 Your boy here has been using Pinch Flat. as a way to download YouTube videos 01:13:00.423 --> 01:13:07.550 offline and then present them as first-class citizens in Jellyfinnerplex. 01:13:08.067 --> 01:13:11.733 And when I say first-class, what I mean by that is they look like every other 01:13:11.733 --> 01:13:18.743 TV episode or movie with a poster, metadata, description, even skip intro, 01:13:19.163 --> 01:13:20.793 skip commercial, all this. 01:13:20.793 --> 01:13:21.500 It feels native. 01:13:21.977 --> 01:13:25.941 Feels like a native thing. And it's a fantastic way for me to watch YouTube 01:13:26.382 --> 01:13:29.363 because I kind of got sketchy internet at home from time to time. 01:13:29.363 --> 01:13:31.252 Sometimes we're on the go and we're on LTE. 01:13:31.606 --> 01:13:34.166 And so watching YouTube is a chore on those kind of connections. 01:13:34.567 --> 01:13:37.662 So if you just got things you watch, a few channels you watch on the regular, 01:13:38.057 --> 01:13:41.499 you throw them into old pinch flat here and it pulls them down, 01:13:41.743 --> 01:13:45.083 saves them, gets all the NFO and metadata information, saves which ones it's 01:13:45.083 --> 01:13:46.704 viewed, all that. Beautiful. 01:13:48.317 --> 01:13:49.857 Unfortunately, YouTube's been 01:13:49.857 --> 01:13:53.773 making it harder and harder for good old classic YTDLP to work properly. 01:13:54.355 --> 01:13:57.947 And this has impacted the performance of Pinchflat and related projects. 01:13:58.395 --> 01:14:00.688 And so more and more, I'm missing videos. 01:14:01.534 --> 01:14:06.887 And so Pinchflat NGX comes into the picture here. Pinchflat NGX. 01:14:08.036 --> 01:14:12.467 An enhanced self-hostable version of Pinchflat with a YouTube media manager 01:14:12.467 --> 01:14:13.533 and metadata built in here. 01:14:14.091 --> 01:14:17.117 And one of the things it does do differently, besides some UI changes that I 01:14:17.117 --> 01:14:20.859 think look quite nice, is it uses a different download pipeline. 01:14:21.805 --> 01:14:25.797 And it uses a tool that I'm not super familiar with, but seems to be producing 01:14:25.797 --> 01:14:30.879 better results, and they kind of go through all of it in their description of how it all works. 01:14:31.582 --> 01:14:37.237 And it uses something called bgutil, which integrates with like a token you 01:14:37.237 --> 01:14:42.181 get from YouTube or something like that, and bypasses some of the issues that YTDLP runs into. 01:14:43.742 --> 01:14:46.860 Really nice. And it's one of these things that once you set it up, 01:14:47.562 --> 01:14:50.180 not only do you generally not have to think about it as long as it doesn't break, 01:14:51.057 --> 01:14:57.670 but it makes the experience of watching YouTube not feel like YouTube, right? 01:14:57.670 --> 01:15:01.627 It just, there's a couple of channels I want to watch and I don't want the rest of that crap. 01:15:02.330 --> 01:15:08.770 And because it does also integrate things like skip intro or things like that, 01:15:08.770 --> 01:15:11.432 it feels more like an actual TV series that I watch. 01:15:11.595 --> 01:15:14.820 Uh it's you know because i think the original development of pinflat kind of 01:15:14.820 --> 01:15:19.280 stopped right seemingly um so this is a continuation in a few ways including 01:15:19.280 --> 01:15:24.290 i mean like original sqlite only this one adds postgres support yes uh it adds 01:15:24.290 --> 01:15:26.570 oauth and oidc support yeah, 01:15:28.754 --> 01:15:32.280 before you kind of got a basic worker pool now it has live diagnostics granular 01:15:32.280 --> 01:15:36.370 worker tuning it also has better support for single video sources one-off direct 01:15:36.370 --> 01:15:41.020 video downloads if you want to do that too which is pretty convenient so big upgrade. 01:15:41.269 --> 01:15:43.780 And then you know you just plumb it in you have it saved to a directory that 01:15:43.780 --> 01:15:47.360 you have jellyfin or plex index you add that as a library so i just have a youtube 01:15:47.360 --> 01:15:50.388 library and if you were to browse it you'd be like this is great, 01:15:51.073 --> 01:15:54.750 um but with pinch flat having some issues and kind of not getting updated much 01:15:54.750 --> 01:16:00.396 it was really great to see pinch flat ngx come along and it's also gpl3 as well, 01:16:03.014 --> 01:16:07.641 Big recommend, and especially if you need to archive some videos, 01:16:07.641 --> 01:16:10.211 like if there's a channel that has really helpful instruction videos that you 01:16:10.211 --> 01:16:11.280 want to archive offline. 01:16:11.826 --> 01:16:16.644 The other reason I started using this is there's some videos that I don't mind at all my kids watch. 01:16:16.998 --> 01:16:20.661 There's other videos, not a big fan. And so this is a way to kind of get access 01:16:20.661 --> 01:16:24.841 for the family to YouTube in a way that doesn't leak into the other videos that 01:16:24.841 --> 01:16:25.787 maybe you're worried about. 01:16:26.060 --> 01:16:28.961 So it's nice from a parental standpoint too. So it's Pinch Flat NGX. 01:16:29.541 --> 01:16:30.951 90% Elixir. 01:16:30.951 --> 01:16:32.300 No, that's cool. 01:16:32.480 --> 01:16:33.426 We need a sound for that one. 01:16:33.926 --> 01:16:37.234 Something cool, like an Excalibur kind of sound or something. 01:16:37.943 --> 01:16:41.285 But we will have links to all of this in the show notes, Wes. 01:16:41.436 --> 01:16:43.236 And where do people find those show notes? Well, 01:16:43.520 --> 01:16:47.328 that's on our website at linuxunplugged.com. And this is episode 692. 01:16:47.955 --> 01:16:51.111 Or you can find it over at jupiterbroadcasting.com. Either website, 01:16:51.111 --> 01:16:52.355 you'll have our RSS feed. 01:16:52.680 --> 01:16:55.881 That's the pro move. Grab that feed, put it in your podcast catcher of choice. 01:16:55.881 --> 01:16:57.556 Get the episode every week, obviously. 01:16:58.015 --> 01:16:59.971 But take a look at it, too. There's some useful stuff in there. 01:16:59.971 --> 01:17:01.301 Mm-hmm. Cloud chapters. Yeah. 01:17:01.721 --> 01:17:01.721 Json, 01:17:04.406 --> 01:17:06.206 json json json. 01:17:06.368 --> 01:17:11.251 We also have transcripts vtt and srt srt and you put something special in. 01:17:11.251 --> 01:17:15.314 There's an mp4 in there too i don't know why but there is don't do it. 01:17:15.471 --> 01:17:16.241 Don't even look at it. 01:17:16.241 --> 01:17:19.691 Don't don't do it don't do it don't do it although brent's so damn handsome. 01:17:20.213 --> 01:17:21.081 Sometimes there's cats. 01:17:21.661 --> 01:17:25.911 Yeah and dogs there's that too all right that's everything for us guess what 01:17:25.911 --> 01:17:29.951 and we will be back live at a regular time back from texas linux fest and i'm 01:17:29.951 --> 01:17:31.405 sure with stories to share, 01:17:35.230 --> 01:17:40.926 So, why don't you head on over to jblive.tv and make it a Tuesday on a Sunday. 01:17:40.926 --> 01:17:46.072 We get together over at jblive.tv and jblive.fm if you're on the go at 10 a.m. Pacific. 01:17:46.693 --> 01:17:50.461 Convert it at your local time at jupiterbroadcasting.com slash calendars. 01:17:50.769 --> 01:17:54.368 Don't forget our members get the full bootleg, and it's usually a whopper. 01:17:54.687 --> 01:17:56.928 And don't forget to get your home labs decorated. 01:17:57.044 --> 01:17:57.256 Yes. 01:17:57.276 --> 01:17:58.206 Prepare for submission. 01:17:58.206 --> 01:18:02.193 That's right. Coming soon, we'll have more information, and I'll be on the website as well. 01:18:02.849 --> 01:18:06.846 Thank you so much for joining us on this week's episode of Your Unplugged Program. 01:18:06.846 --> 01:18:08.300 Thank you to John for joining us. 01:18:08.810 --> 01:18:12.626 Good luck to all of their endeavors. And with that, we will see you right back 01:18:12.626 --> 01:18:15.991 here next Tuesday, as in Sunday.