Chris: Hello, friends, and welcome back to your weekly Linux talk show. My name is Chris.
Wes: My name is Wes.
Brent: And my name is Brent.
Chris: Hello, gentlemen. Well, coming up on the show, you've been asking,
Chris: and this week we're delivering.
Chris: While I'm off on a family summer road trip, we're going to sneak you some of
Chris: the clips from the bootleg version of the show.
Chris: The stuff we thought you'd never hear is going to get heard in this week's episode.
Chris: So before I go any further, before we get into the dirty laundry,
Chris: let me say time-appropriate greetings to our virtual lug. Hello, Mumble Room.
Mumble: Hey Chris, hey Russ, and hello Brent. How's it going?
Chris: Hello there. Shout out to everybody up in the quiet listening too.
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Chris: Now, just a disclaimer, if anything crazy happened this week and you're expecting
Chris: to talk about it, this is a pre-recorded episode.
Chris: So we may have missed the big news, but we'll be live again next week and we'll
Chris: be sure to try to cover it.
Chris: But this is an episode we have been cooking for a while. We're pretty proud
Chris: of our bootleg version of the show around here.
Chris: Sure, it's live, so it might not always sound as good as what our excellent
Chris: editor Drew puts out. But we try to pack it full of content.
Wes: All the extra stuff and all the extra mistakes. Sometimes a full extra show.
Chris: That's definitely true.
Wes: So this is sort of like Chef Chris's bootleg jambalaya?
Chris: I guess so. I guess you could call it that. And this week, we're just going
Chris: to share some of it with you.
Chris: We've put together a collection. I wouldn't say it's a best of or anything like
Chris: that. I think it's just topics you might find interesting that if we had the
Chris: time, we probably would have put in the show.
Chris: So if you like the sample this week, we do have a coupon code to take 15% off
Chris: your Unplugged Core contributor membership or your Jupyter.party membership.
Chris: Just use the promo code bootleg at linuxunplugged.com slash membership,
Chris: or when you're at jupiter.party, promo code bootleg, and you'll take 15% off indefinitely.
Chris: And then as a member, you get access to the bootleg, which is released early
Chris: before the show. You also have access to an ad-free edited version of the show.
Chris: And, of course, you support the show directly. So let's get started,
Chris: boys. Let's see what we have, right?
Chris: And this first one was, I think, a story we started noticing about 21 weeks
Chris: ago. It was the first signs that we might be seeing trouble within the Graphene OS project.
Clips: Should we talk about this pixel thing that we've been talking about behind the
Clips: scenes? Is that worth bringing up, you guys?
Clips: I got a few links here. You did. I mean, maybe just because you put the work
Clips: in to make a segment. Okay.
Clips: All right. So this is a little bit. Let's just not get too negative.
Clips: That's the goal. Yeah. I mean, I know, and I can feel in my heart that I'm very
Clips: sad about this, and I want to be negative.
Clips: Careful. But, you know, the extreme headline is I'm a little concerned about
Clips: the future of my Pixel lifestyle.
Clips: I've been really enjoying the Pixel 7 and drafting OS. It's been working really well.
Clips: But we have two, I think, headwinds that are worth putting out there.
Clips: Google has announced a round two of voluntary exits for employees in the platform
Clips: and devices group, which includes people in the Pixel hardware and Android operating system group.
Clips: This is the second round so there's just that I don't know what that signals
Clips: but it's just noteworthy it could be redundancy,
Clips: yeah well I guess last year they merged Pixel team and Android team so you might
Clips: have some I don't know reallocation of folks who just wanted to work on hardware
Clips: just software now have cross duties or something,
Clips: yeah I uh it's just Pixel is just on the verge of competitive right now and
Clips: so I'm just worried anything that reduces its competitive edge I uh,
Clips: The iPhone 13 and 14 are still better than the Pixel 7, right?
Clips: And then they just, now they have, what are they on, the 15 or 16? I don't know.
Clips: Anyways, but I think that's just like in the background.
Clips: The broader concern that I have is the seemingly wider and wider use of the Play Integrity API.
Clips: And Graphene OS does have an OS release coming that tries to enable Google's
Clips: credential service via a sandbox Google Play,
Clips: to make sign-in with Google at least work because sign-in with Google started
Clips: breaking on Graphene OS devices because a subset of apps require it now to work in a certain way.
Clips: But I think the bigger problem is we've heard about the Revolt app,
Clips: WhatsApp, you saw this app, you saw it with DoorDash, Wes.
Clips: Yeah, I think Lyft as well this morning. So far nothing's not worked for me.
Clips: I know Revolut isn't working I think, but... And the warning is that, hey.
Clips: There's like a Play Integrity API issue here yeah so in
Clips: the one of the latest releases now it'll you could turn this off
Clips: but it will ping you with a little notification that says hey by
Clips: the way this app use the play integrity services so
Clips: you can get notifications or you can even block it from having access to
Clips: it so so far i did i did try that with doordash and it
Clips: didn't complain about having a block so it's clearly not and using
Clips: it in any strict way but you have had
Clips: this problem in a more strict way with the cash
Clips: yeah yeah this is something we've seen
Clips: it's not new it just may
Clips: be getting worse well and if you look uh the
Clips: graphene folks do a good job of this but revoluted in
Clips: particular you know it's like you could understand back in the day and like
Clips: oh yeah okay you clearly have a rooted phone that means yeah you shouldn't trust
Clips: the client anyway for whatever reason but you could almost understand the logic
Clips: right but like this is an unrooted phone that specifically takes steps to enable
Clips: as much or more of the security that SOC does.
Clips: And then, as Graffin points out, it's clearly not a real security commitment
Clips: because it's not like they're stopping known insecure, unupdated Android versions, right?
Clips: They're just, you didn't fall into the default implementation of this policy
Clips: that we wanted to have as a checkbox and sorry.
Clips: Right, and Graffin OS writes on X, Google Play completely works on Graffin OS
Clips: from a technical perspective. It's banning using Graffin OS with the Play Integrity API.
Clips: The same applies to some other banking and financial apps, there isn't a way
Clips: for us to deal with this which won't be easy for them to block from working.
Clips: So there's not a lot they can do.
Clips: But isn't that exactly what google wants man this is i mean for me it's this is like a,
Clips: like the whole family uses the cash app and the reason why i got the whole family
Clips: on the cash app is because i needed to get them off of apple pay right and then if it stopped working,
Clips: there's no saving face i just have i would have to use stock android or an iphone right,
Clips: it's also where i i worry about and i
Clips: think cash app it's made harder by this like a lot of their competing services
Clips: at least these days i know venmo for instance has a web platform yeah cash app
Clips: doesn't right and i know there are still some plenty of apps that i see i'm
Clips: even calling them apps plenty of services that that's the they assume that's
Clips: how you're going to interface with them yeah and i have not really ever gone
Clips: down like the you know run way droid or whatever you know,
Clips: to like have a backup of Android to do those kinds of things, I don't really want to.
Clips: But also, I don't know, Brent, doesn't this feel like a move by Google to kind
Clips: of just tighten down the controls a bit?
Clips: Because they could change this to work in a way where Graphene OS was allowed.
Clips: Graphene OS can technically be allowed.
Clips: They're essentially doing the web version of checking for your browser agent
Clips: and then telling you the web page doesn't work.
Clips: Well, I don't think Google really has any incentive to make this work.
Clips: Or to keep it working, or to support it? Well, they would if they understood
Clips: that it was keeping some amount of users interested in Pixels, I think. Right.
Clips: This is what's keeping us buying the Pixel hardware. I mean,
Clips: that's one part, right? Their Android part maybe doesn't make it.
Clips: And buying and using Android apps. Yeah, true. So we're all,
Clips: do you have the Play Store installed?
Clips: Reluctantly, yes. So we all three installed the Play Store. Only recently,
Clips: like within the last month.
Clips: I'm just saying, like, we are consuming Google hardware. We are using Google services.
Clips: Yeah. And you know what else? If I didn't use my Pixel, I would cancel my Google Fi.
Clips: Yeah, I probably would too. So there's multiple ways as a Graphene OS user,
Clips: I am earning them ongoing revenue.
Clips: There was also this whole thing, right? Where, I mean, this may not be,
Clips: are there any of the same execs left? Who knows?
Clips: But like, they sort of made a push with Android for all of the faults and all
Clips: the stuff that they've now just put under the Play API instead of being an Android.
Clips: They did specifically intentionally launch a platform that lets you install
Clips: other firmware on phones.
Clips: I do wonder how much is google's obviously like the
Clips: larger push and like making these apis and maybe even promoting developers
Clips: using them but uh the graphing folks
Clips: do point out that at least some of this at least for specific cases
Clips: like revolute may have to do less with google and maybe even less with the individual
Clips: app and more with like the layers of plumbing and third-party libraries in between
Clips: where these are the things google's providing information and hooks and then
Clips: it's these various sort of security policies or layers that are opting like
Clips: in particular this Like Revolut is just implementing something. Yeah.
Clips: Right. Like it would let you do it if you, it won't let you use it if you've
Clips: relocked your firmware with a custom key.
Clips: But if you just don't lock your firmware at all, that's not a problem for it.
Clips: So like it doesn't really make sense. Oh.
Clips: And it doesn't really seem like if it was actual intentionality from the people
Clips: looking out of these options in like a fully configured way that you would do that.
Clips: But if it's something that you inherited through the various API layers and
Clips: things that you're building on top of, it's a little more difficult.
Clips: Or you didn't even have the choice necessarily. Which is the way it usually
Clips: works in corporate development.
Clips: Huh. That's doubly bad. Actually, that's worse. I don't know where this goes.
Clips: Other than we're just going to keep an eye on it. Right. I mean,
Clips: unfortunately, it feels like that's...
Clips: By picking a niche where we try to put ideals into it, you always get to suffer.
Clips: Would you go to Lineage OS?
Clips: I'd try it. i've been there i mean i moved from lineage to graphene and it had
Clips: some great features to it sure but uh i think the selling point of graphene
Clips: is much much stronger yeah i agree i i think because of the weight of the family
Clips: pole i think i would go back to iphone if it makes sense yeah.
Clips: But tied to next so well and you are already right you there are macs in your
Clips: life you have the watch like you already know and like and know how to manipulate
Clips: that ecosystem yeah yeah yeah Well, the whole family is on iMessage. Right.
Clips: Versus like I would have to, if I was going to do that, I would just have the
Clips: one and then I would start buying more.
Clips: Yeah, yeah, yeah. But the calculation they're probably making here is like the
Clips: pixels weren't necessarily meant for only us, right?
Clips: They wanted them to sell big time. I know. I'm using it more like a Nexus.
Clips: Yeah. Yeah. Exactly the same. So they need major numbers to make this work out.
Clips: And I'm not convinced our little niche is enough, unfortunately.
Clips: Yeah, I agree. I just don't understand why not support Graphene OS,
Clips: because there is a growing market of these hardened phones,
Clips: and there is a growing market of privacy,
Clips: and there is sort of this like...
Clips: We can do something iPhone can't aspect of it. It's almost worth just keeping
Clips: alive for that. I don't know.
Clips: But then aren't they admitting that their version of Android isn't the most hardened?
Clips: Maybe. Would you go back to stock? Would you ever go back to stock?
Clips: Only if I was forced. Before you went to iPhone, you'd go to stock?
Clips: Honestly, I trust the stock iOS more than I trust stock Android. Jeez.
Clips: Yeah, I think I would change how I use my phone. Okay. You know what I mean?
Clips: Yeah. Like I would probably go stock just because I could use the same device.
Clips: And then i would see how much i hated it like there are things that
Clips: i liked right like i don't love google assistant but it works okay yeah
Clips: uh having i don't i did specifically reinstall
Clips: the google app partially to play with their new ai story
Clips: summary but also their feed is pretty decent for finding stuff
Clips: for the show sometimes so like having that back on the side
Clips: of the thing wouldn't be the worst i don't like the i don't think it's
Clips: there now even oh is it not i don't think so i might actually do a
Clips: linux phone oh yeah i
Clips: could see you doing that yeah i choose suffering usually yeah
Clips: yeah but then because it's like if if it was like stock android or apple i think
Clips: actually i would take the third option linux phone yeah and it would be rough
Clips: i yeah you guys are gonna have to support me we could just get you a mi-fi and
Clips: like a smaller think pad right,
Clips: leg strapped i'd like it strapped to my leg please um yeah just because i think
Clips: we're with graphene in a really nice place where we can trust the software a
Clips: little bit more at least I feel
Clips: like I can and have the control to install pretty much whatever you want.
Clips: And yet also at least up to this point fit into the normie apps and get those
Clips: working in a way that feels okay,
Clips: right but if that goes away then you know that golden age is gone I'm not sure
Clips: it would ever come back really.
Chris: Now, just last week, 19 weeks later in the bootleg, we had a whole other long
Chris: discussion about GrapheneOS as they revealed more challenges about getting the
Chris: OS3 driver images and whatnot.
Chris: Seems like they're in a tough spot right now, and they're hoping to eventually
Chris: find a third-party equipment manufacturer that'll just work with them and make a GrapheneOS phone.
Wes: Alas, the bad news doesn't really stop there. Another project we got some troublesome
Wes: vibes from this year was our dear Asahi Linux.
Clips: Hector Martin has resigned as a maintainer to the Linux kernel after discussions
Clips: on the Linux kernel mailing list got pretty heated.
Clips: The discussion seems to have started after a series of patches related to adding
Clips: DMA Coherence Allocator, which is an abstraction layer for Rust, to the Linux kernel.
Clips: This led to a larger conversation about community influence and,
Clips: of course, the development process around the Linux kernel and getting these things in there.
Clips: Of particular point of contention, brought up by several kernel developers,
Clips: including eventually Linus Torvalds himself, is that Hector Martin,
Clips: the primary developer of Asahi Linux, used social media to voice his concerns
Clips: and try to influence the situation on multiple occasions.
Clips: This approach was criticized by Linus Torvalds, who stated that social media
Clips: is not a solution for kernel development issues, and that social media brigading
Clips: made him not want to have anything to do with Hector Martin's approach.
Clips: Dave Arlisle also stated the community does not need grandstanding,
Clips: brigading, or, quote, streamer drama creation.
Clips: Ouch. Yeah, and so I was telling Brent,
Clips: like, this is where I would love some sort of maybe LLM-powered tool where we
Clips: could go back across the members' pre-show and play each time.
Clips: We've gently brought up the fact that Hector seems to be kind of starting fights
Clips: with kernel maintainers on social media, and I don't think this is going to
Clips: go well, because I think we've done it probably three or four times over the years.
Clips: And I'm kind of almost surprised it took this long for it really to blow up.
Clips: And it's unfortunate. And so Hector's position is this is sort of a tool in
Clips: order to bring attention to an issue that we have had very little progress on.
Clips: And the kernel team's position is that it's not really improving the process.
Clips: It's not affecting change, but it is creating drama and strife.
Clips: Right. And it's not just, I mean, you know, it's not like a ban on talking about
Clips: Colonel things on social media.
Clips: A lot of this is the, Hector is, I think, justifiably to some extent,
Clips: upset about the lack of progress and the fights around Rust and the Colonel. But...
Clips: When you have a big platform, you get a lot of people who aren't related to
Clips: the kernel discussion now hearing and seeing Hector's side and commenting in
Clips: and starting a whole discussion. It's really quite separate from what was happening in the kernel.
Clips: And it strikes me, I was just thinking, we've talked about some of the strife
Clips: between Kent Overstreet and the BcacheFS developer and the kernel.
Clips: So when he had the Code of Contact stuff, that was fighting about,
Clips: he wanted changes to the VFS layer.
Clips: Yeah. Because he noticed that there was a functionality in that that could cause
Clips: problems for advanced file systems like bcachefs.
Clips: I'd like to learn more about if Butter was affected. I haven't looked into it.
Clips: Good question. But he was arguing like this will cause bugs.
Clips: If we don't fix it, future file systems could have used this the wrong way and run into these issues.
Clips: So it was like a correctness and data loss thing that affected his project that he was working on.
Clips: And obviously, Hector has a lot of reason to care very much about Rust for Linux.
Clips: But maybe he wanted this particular DMA abstraction or would eventually need it.
Clips: I don't know but like he was not otherwise involved in
Clips: this thread thank you for i did not make that clear thank you yeah
Clips: it wasn't hector's rust patches right and so
Clips: it's sort of like i get being frustrated but you instead of
Clips: sort of letting that thread continue to play out and you know
Clips: maybe let let the people involved kind of push and be like yeah for clarity
Clips: which was slowly happening again maybe not as fast as any of us want right but
Clips: there was some you know greg chimed in at one point and there was some back
Clips: and forth and then the whole thing now linus is expending his energy not trying
Clips: to set tone about Rust, he's fighting with Hector.
Clips: Right, and I think one of the things that kind of pushed this into sort of the boiling point was.
Clips: Hector deleted the post on Mastodon but he started he claims to be kidding in
Clips: retrospect, but I don't actually know if that's true or not in my opinion,
Clips: but he wanted to create a kernel contributor hall of shame,
Clips: for all of the maintainers and contributors that they have problem with,
Clips: that they could then publicly shame on this list and I
Clips: think that's kind of what pushed this over and yeah it's it stinks because there
Clips: is probably truth that you have somewhat I guess what you could call rogue maintainers
Clips: who are not necessarily accountable to actually deliver on something that part
Clips: of the other kernel team is committed to and so they can slow things down,
Clips: It's interesting, though, to see, depending on the information you know about
Clips: this and the background you know about the people involved, it's interesting
Clips: to see different interpretations.
Clips: Some people are saying this as Hector is fighting a good fight here,
Clips: and some people see it as social media and streamer drama getting drawn into
Clips: the kernel development process.
Clips: And the mailing list is pretty exciting. I read through the whole thing.
Clips: I mean, Hector really goes after everything, from how the kernel developers
Clips: make their money to the tools they use to the fact that they have to use email.
Clips: He really goes after everything about developing the kernel.
Clips: And you can see why Linus came back with it seems like our process works at
Clips: least okay kind of comment.
Clips: I think it's fair to question is it working okay in the case of Rust for Linux?
Clips: But clearly they continue to ship kernels. We report on them.
Clips: We keep upgrading. It's not like the kernel.
Clips: There's questions about what do we do and how do we improve it and how do we
Clips: get young people involved and maybe email's not helping.
Clips: But yeah, when you have one post that lumps all these things together,
Clips: again, now we're having a big giant fight that's not going to have any kind
Clips: of local resolution here, right?
Clips: Like, I do think, right, both with Kent and with Hector, there are things to
Clips: bring up about, like, how do we make changes in the kernel? How do we balance,
Clips: you know, moving fast and breaking things with the stability that the kernel needs?
Clips: I do think the Rust thing is tricky, though, too, because, like,
Clips: yes, there's a high-level intention of we were going to do Rust in the kernel.
Clips: But and it's a lot more important for asahi you
Clips: know they've chosen to use it and i think for very good reasons if they've as
Clips: they've talked about the advantages but you know
Clips: until we're at the point where it's really in and we're relying on it
Clips: i can understand too from a lot of other maintainers who
Clips: we all know have very busy and a lot of responsibility like it's
Clips: not necessarily a priority right the priority is getting the next kernel release
Clips: with the features that companies are expecting or users are
Clips: expecting or the bug fixes that are needed and moving to rust
Clips: is a goal but i can see why people
Clips: are frustrated in the short term but i can also see from like a broader kernel perspective
Clips: being like right we've never done this before yeah preempts took
Clips: a decade nothing in production is actually using this right now so
Clips: like what is the actual expectation for how fast it should move right and and
Clips: then if you just narrow that's a great point just in rust in general in the
Clips: kernel but then if you were to narrow it even further to asahi how many asahi
Clips: linux users are there maybe under 500 000 maybe under 400 000 300 000 right
Clips: maybe under 200 000 even so yeah Yeah, you're right, as far as kernel priorities go.
Clips: It's on there, but it's not probably even in the top 10. Right.
Clips: That's rough.
Wes: That bootleg was from episode 601, but just a few weeks later in episode 609,
Wes: we had another big Asahi update.
Clips: It looks like M4 support for Asahi is going to come very slow.
Clips: This is from a social media post from an Asahi developer, quote,
Clips: Looks like M4 support for Asahi Linux is going to be rather painful.
Clips: We're still focusing on upstreaming M1 and M2 support, but other people have
Clips: been trying to bring up M1N1, their mini, bootloader on the M4,
Clips: and it looks like a few things have changed.
Clips: When configuring a macho boot object, we now get dropped into an environment
Clips: where Apple's SPTM is running on GL2 and we're supposed to talk to it from EL2
Clips: with an MMU already enabled to set up page tables.
Clips: So this neither works now for Linux nor for running ZNU under our hypervisor,
Clips: which was what they used to reverse engineer the new hardware.
Clips: So their little trick for, well, not little, but their
Clips: ingenious trick to reverse engineer the hardware is gone
Clips: and they need to come up with a new way to figure that out m3 is
Clips: looking pretty bad m4 is even further out well we always knew this was a possibility
Clips: it's kind of part of how it works right i do think in my interview with hector
Clips: martin and linux action news i specifically asked him about this and he was
Clips: hopeful at the time that the platform changes would be iterative between m1
Clips: m2 m3 m4 and that they would be minor changes for them to keep up with them.
Clips: I don't think that's the case necessarily. I also don't think they're necessarily down and out.
Clips: And when it comes to Linux, I still, it would be nice to have,
Clips: you know, a MacBook where you could do a boot macOS and Asahi and under Linux,
Clips: it was very capable and yada, yada, yada. Obviously, that's the ideal case, right?
Clips: And it's pretty close on my M1. It's pretty close.
Clips: Especially now that I have sound, you know, I'm pretty happy.
Clips: Once Wi-Fi and sound and 3D started working. Then it feels like a laptop. Yeah.
Clips: But I still think the ideal use case is a headless M1 Mac Mini or M2 Mac Mini
Clips: or if they have an M2. But, you know, like that class of machine,
Clips: something in the corner, low power, you're using as a home lab.
Clips: And we always knew, right, one segment of use cases for this was going to be
Clips: the used sort of aftermarket of like, well, M1s are still totally fine if you
Clips: don't expect and need the latest and greatest. Yeah.
Clips: And things are still rolling out. Like Linux 6.15 seems to be landing support for the touch bar.
Clips: So even, I don't even know what Macs have touch bars, but yeah,
Clips: the touch bar is going to be working in 6.15.
Clips: I don't know. I like the idea of controlling apt from a touch bar for some reason.
Clips: Yeah, or at least getting like a progress, a visual indicator of progress for
Clips: packages. D-package telling you why your system is irreparably broken.
Clips: But right there in your touch bar.
Clips: I'd just like B-top there all the time. Yeah. Or a ping.
Clips: You know, you could do a few things. I was just thinking ping immediately.
Clips: That would be way more useful for us. A single line of journal output.
Clips: Yeah. Linux users would have taken more. I think the Mac users were always very hard on the touch bar.
Clips: I think Linux users could have had a few good ideas in there.
Clips: Yeah right especially plasma
Clips: desktop users that's another one of those things it's like it's not a bad idea
Clips: but if you had some something even remotely like
Clips: an open spec or any chance anyone else in
Clips: the ecosystem would have adopted anything similar you know where they went wrong
Clips: they shouldn't have got rid of the f keys maybe they fix that later on yeah
Clips: but on the early models no f keys oh just chris you would do like a bitcoin
Clips: ticker tape totally yeah you can have a little yeah oh smash that buy button
Clips: right right on the touch bar oh that's dangerous oh that's so dangerous.
Brent: But with that bad also comes the good, and it seems like the folks are feeling
Brent: pretty good about Framework these days, and now they've got a desktop.
Clips: Let's talk about this story, just because I think it's fascinating.
Clips: The Framework folks have released a desktop machine. It is a compact 4.5 liter
Clips: mini ITX system powered by AMD's Ryzen AI Max processor. Pre-orders are open now.
Clips: Shipments are expected in early Q3 of 2025.
Clips: Here's the details. The processor boasts up to 16 cores, not too bad,
Clips: which go up to 5.1 gigahertz at boost.
Clips: The Radeon 8060S is included for the graphics. It can go up to 128 gigabytes
Clips: of unified memory. That's a key thing here.
Clips: This is low-power DDR5X memory that is unified, which means it's baked in, it's built in.
Clips: But the idea is this specifically is designed for AI workloads where unified
Clips: memory does seem to make a difference.
Clips: They're saying it's a modular desktop, but you can't really replace things like RAM or CPU.
Clips: But it does actually have a couple of the module slots, at least on the front,
Clips: for the accessories that you can use with the framework laptop today.
Clips: So if you've already invested in some of those USB-C-based modules,
Clips: you can actually slot them into the front of this thing.
Clips: And it's tiny. It starts at $1,099 for 8-core version with 32 gigs of RAM.
Clips: Now, you cannot upgrade that RAM.
Clips: The top tier, with a Ryzen AI Max Plus 395 with 128 gigabytes of RAM,
Clips: comes in around $2,000 US dollars.
Clips: They say it makes local AI processing much more affordable than a traditional
Clips: GPU-based system, which is true.
Clips: You know, I mean, the video card alone would cost more than this.
Clips: They call it a fully modular design with standard PC components and an expansion card system.
Clips: And then it has swappable panels on the front, RGB options, and more.
Clips: Windows 11, Ubuntu, Fedora, and gaming OS options like Bazite will be available.
Clips: Interesting to see Bazite incorporated.
Clips: What is your reaction, boys, to a framework desktop that you can't swap out the CPU or the RAM?
Clips: If you want more memory, if you want a new CPU, you got to get an entire new MOBO.
Clips: What do you think, Brent, as a framework user? I hesitate a little.
Clips: I understand they're trying to hit a different market, perhaps.
Clips: But this moves them away from their core principles that got them a bunch of attention.
Clips: I mean, they had a lot of success with that original model of being super user-friendly,
Clips: repairable, upgradable, etc., etc.
Clips: So this feels like a departure.
Clips: You know Brent, right? Maybe they're just not aiming at me. He wants to be able
Clips: to trade it down immediately.
Clips: I was hoping everybody forgot i did that because now i slightly regret it but,
Clips: yeah i mean okay all right but does it make you feel better,
Clips: if they do the thing they do with the laptops where every generation or two
Clips: new mobo you can swap the mob well isn't that true every desktop that's where
Clips: it doesn't feel that much worse to me because i don't i feel like yes you like
Clips: you can swap cpus in desktops but depending on exactly the generation and the type.
Clips: You probably have to swap RAM. You're probably going to need a different socket.
Clips: Like there's going to be a lot of changes.
Clips: And if you're reasonably happy with your build, you're probably going to run
Clips: it until you're going to want to swap out a bunch of stuff anyway, or at least I tend to.
Clips: Yeah, that is more my use case. Back in the day, I swapped components more,
Clips: you know, or I'd pop more RAM in. I'd buy, I'd make sure I'd buy it with some open RAM slots. Right.
Clips: You know, I'd do it maybe, you know, every other GPU generation,
Clips: which is just totally unreasonable now. Yeah, every fifth one now.
Clips: I mean, if you think about it from, You know, you want a system that does local AI work.
Clips: That's the part I'm excited to see, right? Is like having more things that aren't.
Clips: Just spend 5K on a NVIDIA card targeting this in a way that can be a little
Clips: more competitive with what Apple's doing.
Clips: It's slightly larger height wise than a banana. That's how small this thing is.
Clips: Now, it's not super cheap, but also it's not unreasonable if you consider it's
Clips: a pretty powerful GPU-CPU combo.
Clips: Mine, as configured with a 2-terabyte NVMe and then a 1-terabyte for home storage, would be $1,926.
Clips: If I was working at a shop where we were doing a bunch of this stuff for the
Clips: day-to-day, you know, actual workload, I would for sure be pressuring my boss
Clips: to buy me one of these for my next rig.
Clips: Yeah, it'd be a good little desktop work machine. I could also see this being,
Clips: assuming it's not too loud, and they let you pick quiet CPU fans,
Clips: so, you know, there's a shot.
Clips: Could be a good little OBS machine, production machine, Reaper machine. Oh, true, yeah.
Clips: Again, where we just kind of set it and don't touch it for a long time.
Clips: But I would be inclined to at least want to go with 64 gigs of RAM.
Clips: So it's not super cheap either. So if you go with the base, 32 gigs of RAM,
Clips: it's $500 to go to 64 gigs.
Clips: And then if you want to go to 128 and you may want to max it out since you can
Clips: never upgrade it again and if you are legitimately doing AI workloads you want
Clips: to go to 128 gigs of RAM then you get the max plus 395 so you get a better CPU too but it's $900.
Clips: And you're in batch 7 which ships in Q3 this is interesting they went small
Clips: too I will be very very very closely watching the early reviews to see what people think,
Clips: This gets me thinking about the Thaleo Mega that they came out with recently.
Clips: It says right here, Thaleo Megas is the world's smallest, well,
Clips: not anymore, and quietest workstation for deep learning and scientific computing.
Clips: But that's like 6K USD. I mean, it's US manufactured and all that open source hardware stuff.
Clips: I wonder if the performance difference, because, you know, that's going to be
Clips: desktop hardware, right? Where this thing is a little bit closer to a laptop.
Clips: I mean, it's, you know, a little bit more like, it's like an iMac without the screen, in a way.
Clips: Or maybe like the Mac Studio, but, you know, the AMD side of it.
Clips: Okay, so you're saying we take this thing, we put it in a backpack,
Clips: we load it up with batteries, and this is Brent's new remote rig. Yeah, man.
Clips: Way better than I have. That way it can do on-the-fly transcriptions of the interviewers.
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Wes: Sometimes in the bootleg we even get into a new hardware we've managed to acquire and set up.
Clips: You got yourself a dell thunderbolt dock for
Clips: a great price is this a thunderbolt 3 it is
Clips: yeah and i had the debate i was like should i buy something
Clips: like shinier and new that would be you know if i let's say get a new framework
Clips: amd version or something you know that would like really play super nice but
Clips: i was like no i just want to pick up something used this is about current hardware
Clips: enablement and if i'm buying a new framework i can just justify rolling in a
Clips: new dock as part of that price. So why a Thunderbolt dock at all?
Clips: I kind of rejiggered some of my office setup.
Clips: This is going to be summer. I wanted something in my living room,
Clips: which is a little more bright and airy of a space, and I haven't been using it as much as I could.
Clips: And so I redid some monitors, and then I had a setup where I wanted to have
Clips: the laptop and two monitors going.
Clips: And by default, there is an HDMI port on this ThinkPad, and so it can power
Clips: two, but it can't power all three.
Clips: Right. Even with a USB-C adapter, but with Thunderbolt, you can.
Clips: So I just wanted to pick up something I could have and then make it a little
Clips: easier to dock and untuck.
Clips: So with Thunderbolt 3 off that thing, you can run the internal screen and two
Clips: external monitors simultaneously?
Clips: Yep. And the video card keeps up? Yeah.
Clips: Huh. That's nice. So far, I'm actually, because I need to get some DisplayPort
Clips: cables, right now I have it set up so that it's using the HDMI port on the laptop
Clips: itself for one of the screens, and then just one fed from the display board,
Clips: but you can do it whatever way. It might be better.
Clips: It's like, remind me of the generation of that video card, though.
Clips: It's not great. No. I mean, that's why I'm surprised. I mean,
Clips: I guess I'm not shocked. I know. Yeah.
Clips: It's surprisingly been capable. I think so. I don't know.
Clips: Amazing. Absolutely great. So, and did you have to go in on Plasma or I7?
Clips: I7-8650. It's the CBO. Yeah. Oh, gosh.
Clips: I know, right? Did you have to, like, authorize any security stuff for Thunderbolt
Clips: or anything like that? No.
Clips: Did you have to turn on anything in Nix? I didn't do a thing.
Clips: I mean, I probably can. I've used Bolt CTL and D and stuff before,
Clips: especially because there's a Thunderbolt doc here at the studio.
Clips: I've used Thunderbolt at work, you know.
Clips: But, no, I don't know if I enabled that in my Nix config. I actually haven't
Clips: checked thoroughly, but it just plugged it in. Yeah.
Clips: And Plasma is doing great with the monitors. Like, there's no issues with it
Clips: being wonky with ordering or, like, some of them not waking up or anything it's
Clips: all just been working do you remember which dell dock it is.
Clips: W19 something because you could pick them up used for a great price and yeah
Clips: some of these things are like 300 bucks originally i almost got the lenovo one
Clips: that was sort of like paired with this which i could also get for like 60 to
Clips: 100 bucks used but and it probably turns out maybe it doesn't matter but,
Clips: The internet was suggesting that one wasn't Flopty compatible, and the Dell one is.
Clips: So the ports were a little better on the Lenovo, but I was like,
Clips: you know, for under $100, like, yeah, Flopty just seems great.
Clips: I'll probably be buying a second dock at some point anyway.
Clips: Somewhere, somewhere, I think, in this tomb of old technology of a studio,
Clips: I have a Lenovo dock that has an NVIDIA graphics card in it.
Clips: So it's a Thunderbolt dock with an eGPU built into it. I remember you.
Clips: Yeah. It was cool. Although the problem is, why would you want something like that? To game.
Clips: And guess what happens? It overheats and significantly thermal throttles. So, yeah.
Clips: But one of my favorite Thunderbolt docks I ever built was actually just an eGPU
Clips: that had a bunch of other ports on it as well. Here we go.
Clips: WD19TB. There you go. That's the dock. You told me 19S yesterday.
Clips: I was looking at the wrong thing. Oh, man. Way to go. Jeez.
Clips: Well, I don't know. You should let me take apart that dock with the GPU,
Clips: see if I can make it not thermal tunnel.
Clips: Yeah, if we can find it, I'll set it aside. I think that would be great, because it still works.
Clips: And I think it's like a 10 series GTX.
Clips: It's an old, old one, but you know, it might be fun to see if it works.
Clips: Who knows? It can't hurt. Well, it can hurt, but...
Clips: Wes, I sneaky heard you say that you're thinking of getting a framework.
Clips: Oh, I don't know. I mean, at some point it'll be new laptop time and the framework
Clips: is probably the number one contender pending something, you know,
Clips: some other consideration at time of purchase.
Clips: Yeah. So there's kind of always like a background framework that's not in the
Clips: cart, but it's like in the cart before the cart.
Clips: In the wishlist. Yeah. I'm always thinking like, what if my main machine died? What would I do?
Clips: I'm always kind of toying with that idea.
Clips: I think maybe a framework would be a big contender, or maybe the AI desktop.
Clips: Yeah, that would be tempting, too. I don't know.
Clips: I am just going to wait. Just going to wait and see what we get towards the
Clips: end of the year, see what all the different vendors have. That's where I'm at,
Clips: too. You've been waiting.
Clips: You've been saying this for, like, at least a year now, Chris. Yeah, longer.
Clips: Yeah, I know. But I'm still getting by. I've heard good things come to those who wait.
Clips: Pretty much ever since you gave your Dev1 away. Yeah, that's true.
Clips: Which was a couple years ago, I think. That was two years ago. I know. Yeah.
Clips: It is what it is. You're getting close to the point where you've lost or given
Clips: away more laptops than you've bought. I know. It's wild.
Clips: It's wild. You know, the cost of things and whatnot for the last few years,
Clips: I haven't really gotten, you know, like I'm on older phones and all this kind of stuff.
Clips: And I realized I used to have this sort of trickle down cycle where different
Clips: generations of devices would go to kids.
Clips: But now now that i don't have any devices to pass down but they need device
Clips: upgrades like wait so i'm not getting myself a device but i'm buying them new
Clips: devices like what's going on here i've messed something up hand me down soon
Clips: and that's what i realized i had established a natural rhythm and i should have just stuck with it.
Chris: Actually a little bit of real-time follow-up number one i found that dock my
Chris: thunderbolt dock with a video gpu nice work so setting that aside so we can
Chris: work on its cooling later. And you solved your HDMI problem you were having.
Wes: Yeah, now I'm fully DisplayPort. So it's one cable going great.
Chris: Nice, Wes. Good job. Well, so hardware is definitely a topic that we'll cram
Chris: into the bootleg from time to time.
Chris: And I do have a soft spot for the fact that the Starlink network uses Linux.
Chris: And so from time to time, I like to track that.
Clips: This was sort of a neat discovery is somebody actually broke down a Starlink
Clips: user terminal. So the dishy end is referred to the user terminal.
Clips: And there's some really interesting tidbits in this.
Clips: Number one, it's got a quad-core Cortex-A53 SoC that's been custom-built for Starlink. Oh, yeah.
Clips: And they were able to extract the
Clips: firmware directly from the eMMC chip in there. They had to desolder it.
Clips: There's some unencrypted components like the boot chain, the kernel,
Clips: and some parts of the file system.
Clips: And then they set up sort of a basic QMU emulation environment to do the debugging
Clips: to sort of get the system to try to cooperate. That's so cool.
Clips: They have a, when the system boots, it has a runtime that unpacks into slash
Clips: SX local slash runtime, which contains a statically linked C++ executable and
Clips: Go-based software for user communication. All right.
Clips: I thought this was interesting, and I want to know what you guys think of this.
Clips: It seems that the system mainly relies on a C++-based program to bypass the
Clips: kernel for handling network packets.
Clips: The Linux kernel is mostly used just to provide basic hardware drivers and process
Clips: management, and then user packets for communication on the network are handled
Clips: by a user-space processor. That's cool.
Clips: That's interesting. There's a lot of facilities built for that,
Clips: because a lot of these, if you're trying to do Linux for your device,
Clips: especially on the control plane, but then you like maybe the data plane,
Clips: kernel stuff, because the kernel network stack is really flexible at the cost
Clips: of not necessarily optimal performance for just doing basic network, moving packets around.
Clips: So there's a bunch of hooks built in that let you, at various degrees of structure,
Clips: things like EBVF, but there's networking specific things that let you hand off
Clips: control to a user space so they can implement a faster stack that just makes
Clips: fewer decisions or the custom decisions.
Clips: Yeah, we've heard the tail scale guys talk about this a little bit. Yeah, yeah, true.
Clips: It'd be very interesting to know what things, like, was it just performance?
Clips: Or, you know, are there, like, particular, like, network manipulations or changes
Clips: or issues they had with the kernel?
Clips: Like, what motivated different pieces of implementing that? I'd be very curious to know.
Clips: Yeah, I don't like to talk about this kind of stuff. Okay, so they,
Clips: through this analysis, they thought they came across something a little freaky. Yeah.
Clips: They found a program labeled Ethernet Data Recorder. Ooh.
Clips: I mean, it just sounds like a backdoor. Yeah. Right? It just sounds like a backdoor.
Clips: So based on other clues in the firmware, it seems that it's an application related
Clips: to capturing satellite telemetry.
Clips: All the traffic captured is also encrypted using the hardware keys that are fused into the SOC.
Clips: It does not appear to collect any user privacy data. so it must be like for
Clips: support getting diagnostics on the that would make sense yeah okay so this is
Clips: also surprising not surprising in other words your ISP knows what you send on the internet.
Clips: The core software includes the functionalities that seemingly would work for
Clips: the satellites or the ground relays or obviously the user terminal.
Clips: And then as the system boots, it figures out what it is based on the type of
Clips: hardware that is on the system and the peripherals. Oh, fun.
Clips: And then loads the corresponding logic, as they put it. That's crazy.
Clips: Which you could almost wonder if there's a way somehow to get access to this
Clips: thing, if you could make it think it's a satellite or a ground station.
Clips: And then we can make like a bottle rocket.
Clips: Yeah, Brent, that's right. Yes. I do think it's interesting, right?
Clips: Even on the whole platform they control, they've gone this route of like,
Clips: we build our own static world and we ship generic stuff that just sort of,
Clips: I mean, totally reasonable.
Clips: Here's the other thing. So once it identifies, okay, I'm a user terminal,
Clips: I'm the dishy, it then initializes a script that writes 41 SSH keys into slash
Clips: root.ssh authorized keys.
Clips: And then it opens up port 22 to the satellite network, I guess.
Clips: So who do you email to get your key added?
Clips: Right, right. I mean, I wonder if that's like diagnostics. What would that be for?
Clips: You know, because when you open up the app... Or is that like raw remote updates
Clips: checked though? I don't know. Yeah. Yeah, diagnostics would make sensor support.
Clips: It's a lot of keys though. It
Clips: seems like that'd be one or two or three keys, not 22 keys, but 41 keys.
Clips: But I would hate to think what it would actually be like on a Comcast router
Clips: or modem or something like that. It could be, it could be that one,
Clips: even if it was one key, it could be used by tens of thousands of people. So who knows?
Clips: Maybe a good case for when you do the like certificate version or other,
Clips: where you can issue, you know, like, Oh, we want to get access.
Clips: So we signed a temporary key that'll work just for a day for your technician or whatever.
Clips: We got pretty lucky on our road trip for internet.
Clips: We didn't have any serious demands. And when we needed to do the show,
Clips: PJ hooked us up with ethernet.
Clips: He took that ethernet like out of his wall through the wall.
Clips: Yeah. Thank you. Thank you, Jeff. Like the things you do for us.
Clips: Yeah. That was a lifesaver. I guess at some point he has to put it back in the wall.
Clips: Can we just have PJ set up Ethernet everywhere we do a live show?
Clips: He shows up a day or two ahead.
Clips: I mean, we'll be there too to play support, obviously. Wouldn't that be nice? Yeah.
Chris: Normally, we have the good sense to cut this next segment from the show,
Chris: and we don't put it in there because, you know, Linux users having a laugh at
Chris: Windows never looks great.
Chris: But you're getting to hear the stuff we normally cut from the show this week.
Clips: So Microsoft has warned millions of Windows users, don't update your PC.
Clips: Kind of an unusual warning from Microsoft. They say, do not take any action
Clips: in response to several recent update-related errors.
Clips: Now, I guess the trouble began earlier this month with a Windows update that
Clips: went out that caused mysterious empty folders like inetpub to appear and triggered
Clips: persistent update errors.
Clips: And even for some, the blue screen of death for some Windows 11 users.
Clips: Microsoft clarified that the inetpub folder is linked to a security patch and
Clips: should not be deleted despite looking unnecessary.
Clips: And then the error code that people are getting is linked to a win RE update.
Clips: Microsoft says updates typically succeed after a system restart,
Clips: even if an error appears.
Clips: Users are urged not to reattempt install or troubleshoot the error,
Clips: as it should resolve itself.
Clips: The blue screens of death for Windows 11 users, which are becoming more common
Clips: when they're getting things like secure kernel error, Microsoft suggests users
Clips: rely on its known issue rollback fix, which takes up to 24 hours to apply.
Clips: What? Meanwhile, Windows Hello facial recognition was broken in the recent update for some users.
Clips: Although Microsoft says it's just an edge case. And then Microsoft accidentally,
Clips: around the same time, pushed a Windows 11 upgrade to ineligible Windows 10 PCs.
Clips: So now they won't boot, but Microsoft is working on a fix.
Clips: And all of this is happening as Windows 10 is reaching end of life on October
Clips: 14th, along with Office 2016 and 2019.
Clips: These systems will not receive updates post-October.
Clips: And, you know, that's going to be probably millions of Windows PCs.
Clips: Running Linux and, or that could run Linux, but are running Windows 10 and old versions of Office.
Clips: This is a lot of bad to hit at once. We don't normally talk about Windows stuff
Clips: in the show, obviously, but.
Clips: This is a lot. We have the Windows 11 blue screens of death,
Clips: Windows Hello being broken, that weird inetpub folder, which if you delete causes
Clips: problems, which as far as I know is related to IIS, but maybe something different in this case.
Clips: There is an update error that's giving you an error message,
Clips: but you're supposed to just ignore it and wait for it to fix itself.
Clips: And if you really bork things, you can use the rollback kit,
Clips: but it could take 24 hours to apply the fix.
Clips: That's just embarrassing. bad embarrassing how can
Clips: they be okay with that is it because it affects
Clips: such a small percentage of their users that it doesn't like
Clips: affect their bottom line or something like what what's going on maybe they're
Clips: i know because even when you're talking a small percentage you're still talking
Clips: hundreds of thousands if not millions of users right fair but like they took
Clips: down the world uh six seven months ago right well yeah they still have all these
Clips: customers and stuff so So are they feeling invincible and they just,
Clips: you know, they don't have to care? I don't know, man.
Chris: Unraid.net slash unplugged. Go over there, support the show,
Chris: and check out Unraid. Unleash your hardware.
Chris: Unraid's a powerful, easy-to-use NAS operating system built on top of modern
Chris: Linux with a modern kernel in there that gives you control, flexibility,
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Chris: the LLM apps that are a lot of fun.
Chris: You can spin these up in just seconds on top of Unraid.
Chris: Additionally, if you have mismatched disks, Unraid will help you manage all of that.
Chris: They have some of the best virtualization support out there,
Chris: making it easy to pass through hardware or share graphics cards amongst multiple virtual machines.
Chris: And if you're getting into ZFS or you've already got ZFS, well,
Chris: Unraid has something for you. And they really kicked things up recently in Unraid
Chris: 7.1, if you haven't taken a look.
Chris: They make it possible now to support and import the existing pools on your Ubuntu
Chris: system or maybe your Proxmox box or a FreeNAS box.
Chris: You know, you want to step it up to something a little classier and more powerful.
Chris: You can now just import it, boom, right into Unraid.
Chris: It's such an awesome move and feature. But beyond that, they've also just taken
Chris: the ZFS level support all the way there. They've got a bunch of file system
Chris: support, but very impressed to see how they've completed that circle in Unraid 7.1.
Chris: Also in there now is wireless networking support. So if you're like me at home, I can't run Ethernet.
Chris: So everything has to be on Wi-Fi or I suppose ZigBee or Z-Wave or something.
Chris: So having out of the box Wi-Fi support makes that a lot nicer.
Chris: Also, I've been playing around with reusable VM templates. So think about this.
Chris: System just, you get it working, you like it a lot, boom, that's a template
Chris: now, and now you can reuse that over and over again.
Chris: Lots of very awesome features.
Chris: I think as a longtime Linux user, the thing I appreciate the most is that they
Chris: truly do follow Linux development. They watch that driver space.
Chris: They watch the file system space. And they incorporate it intelligently and safely into Unraid.
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Wes: If you catch the bootleg on the
Wes: regular one thing quickly becomes clear we spend a lot of time together.
Clips: Whoa whoa whoa whoa okay so it makes me think it probably with that description
Clips: there's probably something in brent compatible there yeah actually quite a few
Clips: things and i may have twisted the rules oh were they amenable to that i oh you
Clips: never actually went into the script. You didn't give, oh, but there was no script.
Clips: You know, how many times do you
Clips: get to go out to dinner with Wes and he doesn't get to enjoy the script?
Clips: It's something we all enjoy about you. I can give it to you now if you want.
Clips: Yeah. Could you give us the script, please?
Clips: Could you let Wes experience? I would love the script. Can you set the scene
Clips: for me? Oh, yeah, sure. Let me get my, Wes, do you have a pen?
Clips: No, I can just pretend like I have a pen. It's fine. We're not actually taking
Clips: it. Yeah, here's my pen. Oh, great. Thank you.
Clips: Hello, sir. Are you ready to order? Oh, Wes, you should go first.
Clips: Yeah, gin and tonic, please. Okay, gin and tonic. Anything to eat.
Clips: No food. Just the booze. Got you. I like you.
Clips: All right, sir. And what about you? You look like a hungry man.
Clips: Yes, but I have some allergies I'd like to mention. Oh, sure. Yeah, okay.
Clips: So there's two of them. I think this dish will work, but I have a backup in
Clips: case. So one is dairy, you know?
Clips: But down here I have to specify sometimes. Okay, yeah.
Clips: Sure. Anything with cheese. Cream base, too.
Clips: Okay, cream, too? Well, dairy. But butter's fine. Only in Mexican rice, but...
Clips: Uh-huh. But usually not. So if you can, you know. I'm open to anything the chef
Clips: wants to do, though. Yeah, okay. So no dairy. Anything else? Anything else?
Clips: Well, gluten, too. Oh. What about flour?
Clips: Because we have flour in, like, everything. Well, corn flour's fine.
Clips: No, no. What about flour?
Clips: Flour? You mean, like, wheat flour? Yeah, yeah.
Clips: Actually, that contains gluten. Okay, all right. I'll double check with the chef, but go ahead.
Clips: Okay, but I can give you, like, two options. Okay, yeah. That way you're not going back and forth.
Clips: Happy to double check for you, sir. I'm happy to do that. Okay,
Clips: okay. Well, I forgot what I was going to order. Okay.
Clips: What do you suggest? Do you guys need another minute? Oh, you know,
Clips: what's really popular here is the steak fried chicken. People love that.
Clips: Love that. Can you describe that? Oh, with the cream gravy. Yeah, it comes.
Clips: Oh, so first of all, we make our own batter here. Now, we don't grow the chickens,
Clips: but we get it from a great source.
Clips: So we have chicken and steak because, you know, not everybody likes beef.
Clips: I'm sure that, you know, like you mentioned, you have some allergies.
Clips: So what we do is we just take that piece of meat and, you know,
Clips: we just don't, we just source from anywhere we can get it. because it's a pretty expensive market.
Clips: But we get it in stock, pretty much in bulk, and then the stuff that's been
Clips: sitting around for a while, it starts to get a little funky,
Clips: so you don't notice is we have this really great batter.
Clips: Ooh. Now, it is made with flour. I think you said flour is okay?
Clips: So anyways, we just batter this thing up real good, and then we fry it in a
Clips: bunch of oil. Does the batter have beer in it?
Clips: We do have a beer batter offering, yeah. Is it like a black beer?
Clips: No, no, no. It's our IPA with extra wheat.
Clips: Oh, like a wheat ale. No, no, no, it's an IPA Oh, sorry None of that's going
Clips: to work for me Okay, so you need another minute?
Clips: You know what, I'll come back and take your order when you guys are ready,
Clips: okay? I'll be back in just a few minutes But can I just tell you about some allergies that I have?
Clips: Yeah, sure, go ahead I thought you did that,
Clips: I'll just have water Okay, a water and a gin.
Brent: Oh, that is fun. But sometimes we do have a darker side that gets revealed.
Brent: And well, after all, it is live.
Clips: Here's an example of what I'm talking about. you know folks let's uh
Clips: let's talk turkey for a minute here how so these llms
Clips: will produce a soundbite of me that sounds a
Clips: lot like me that was not me but what i
Clips: find insulting is not that they're stealing my voice not that i wasn't asked
Clips: but that they make me sound like
Clips: a moron because he's very loquacious but it's
Clips: thin listen you've got your system right and you're
Clips: sitting there maybe on ubuntu box maybe fedora maybe even
Clips: the dabbling in the art side of things god bless your
Clips: cotton socks if you are you probably run in a desktop environment
Clips: got your graphical interface all you know pretty and neat you open up
Clips: that system monitor click around seeing how your cpu is chewing
Clips: through tasks or or how much ram slack has
Clips: eaten up this week it's well it's adequate gets the job done for browsing
Clips: the web or or watching cat videos sure fine but
Clips: let me tell you something if you shy away from that
Clips: command line the little black box you're leaving
Clips: serious horsepower right there on the table serious you're
Clips: letting the machine kind of spoon feed you its version of reality can
Clips: i just say one i don't breathe like that in the microphone i
Clips: have better mic technique than that so i don't know where they got that from they
Clips: add that in because if they're sampling it for me they're not
Clips: getting it from me two listen right now you hear.
Clips: How silent our background is yeah i've noticed sometimes when it's doing the
Clips: weird voices or kind of breaking there's more background noise yeah we have
Clips: good clean quiet audio and they've so they've made me breathe more they make
Clips: me sound like a moron who just ties a bunch of dumb analogies together and they've
Clips: added a bunch of background noise.
Clips: Instead of you telling the machine
Clips: exactly what tiny little piece of information you need right now, see?
Clips: Think about pulling up HTOP versus your graphical task manager.
Clips: HTOP gives you the detail, real detail. You can see individual threads,
Clips: the full process tree, CPU affinity.
Clips: I mean, you can sort, filter, search, kill processes with just a single key press.
Clips: I guess that's actually the most information I've ever heard it actually give.
Clips: That's actual specifics. I don't know if any of them are right.
Clips: It's closer. I think what burns me about it, A, is it's my voice,
Clips: but bad quality, right? That's what, I don't like that.
Clips: And then B, it sounds worse, and I think it sounds worse because their version
Clips: of what a podcast is, is something where somebody breathes into the microphone
Clips: a bunch and has shitty audio.
Clips: And that pisses me off because it tells you the intentions of the creators of
Clips: the tool is like, well, we've got to suck this up a little bit,
Clips: so that way people think it's a podcast.
Clips: That's what's happening. They're like, it doesn't sound amateur enough.
Clips: Make it sound more sh**. I mean, it may be that that's the LLM found that.
Clips: Maybe. Maybe you're saying that's the best way. On average, podcasts suck.
Clips: Uh-huh. You might be on a Sunday. Which means we stand out.
Clips: Okay, one more. Folks, let me tell
Clips: you. Tired of those old, drawn-out BIOS reboots? You need to try Kazek.
Clips: That's right. I'm Wes, and I'm the head of KigTix content for Jupyter Broadcasting,
Clips: and I'm here to tell you about the miracle.
Clips: Yes, the miracle of the Linux kernel's Kazek. Now, listen up.
Clips: This ain't just your regular rebooting, no, sir. This is enlightened rebooting.
Clips: Kazek lets your currently running Linux kernel, it lets it act like a bootloader
Clips: itself. Think about that.
Clips: It loads up a brand new kernel, writing to memory, gets it all ready to go.
Clips: And then it just performs the control jump straight into it.
Clips: Pow! You completely bypass.
Clips: Skip right over. That slow, tedious firmware initialization,
Clips: all that POST stuff, gone.
Clips: Voice two speakers. Skip the wait. That's right. We're talking milliseconds, folks.
Clips: Milliseconds to load and jump, not minutes sitting there staring at them.
Clips: Did you hear it in there just for a second?
Clips: A little bit of Wes's torture came through. Did you catch it?
Clips: I want to see if I can... All that POST stuff, gone.
Clips: Voice two speakers. skipped the way that's right we're talking milliseconds folks
Clips: voice two speakers so that's where it aired out
Clips: so when wes gets it to do the weird voices it fails to do the second speaker
Clips: most often often yeah and so that's an that sometimes like abrupt topic changes
Clips: i've been trying that recently that'll kick it to a different voice too so it's
Clips: interesting because i think that or voice two where he says voice two out loud
Clips: is where the second voice would have come in right.
Clips: Broken you are a torture of the AI and I love it it's funny the things you get
Clips: oh that one that you sent where the AI was actually just screaming,
Clips: yeah I've gotten some kind of dark stuff out of it yeah
Clips: weirdly I had one where a person
Clips: was turning into a dog like a on our
Clips: live radio broadcast weird yeah but they
Clips: were like dedicated to trying to finish the broadcast as
Clips: they were so their brains no shut up yeah it's kind of creepy sadly
Clips: i forgot to download oh god i would have loved to hear that sounds like
Clips: a good okay i got i found it what'd you get which one
Clips: the tortured oh you found it uh-huh so i just kind of replied to the thread
Clips: and it should show up at the bottom of our chat there okay is that the crazy
Clips: one there yeah okay all right here we go you seem hesitant well just because
Clips: i don't want it to be too loud it comes in like yeah i do norm i'm pretty hot
Clips: okay folks hold on right there.
Clips: What is it doing? Just warming up in smoke or something.
Clips: The bees, they're attacking. This is really creepy.
Clips: I'm going to have to manually fetch a few lib files straight from the repo mirror.
Clips: Bless their hearts they mean well.
Clips: But sometimes the package management system just,
Clips: It ain't as robust as you'd hope, you know? I know, man.
Clips: Freedom, performance, control of your own machine.
Clips: That's what it's all about, ain't it? Taking back the reins, making things run away.
Clips: The way the good Lord intended. Oh, my God. Insane.
Clips: And this is what west does in his free time those poor
Clips: machines they're gonna come for you one day this is what the gpus are for i'm
Clips: telling you how many kilowatt hours did it take to make that good question well
Clips: notebook put in a limit i've got to i've got to assume i was part of that yeah
Clips: they're like this some guy yeah some guy in seattle and i only ever thumbs up
Clips: the weird one so I'm really just trying to give feedback to their system.
Clips: Oh, no, really? Uh-huh. You're so twisted. I love it.
Chris: Well, we have no boost this week, but we do have that bootleg promo code membership
Chris: if you'd like to sign up and get the bootleg episode.
Chris: We will be collecting boosts for the episode when we come back live next week.
Chris: And we'd love to hear about some of your favorite summer road trip destinations.
Chris: Let us know. Boost in or send us an email at linuxunplugged.com slash contact.
Wes: If you have a fancy podcast client, do check out our chapters and transcripts,
Wes: which are available on every recent episode.
Chris: Indeed, and most episodes have lots of links, probably not this episode,
Chris: at linuxunplugged.com.
Chris: Thank you so much for joining us on this week's episode. We'll see you back
Chris: here next Tuesday, as in Sunday.