WEBVTT 00:00:11.333 --> 00:00:16.033 Hello, friends, and welcome back to your weekly Linux talk show. My name is Chris. 00:00:16.193 --> 00:00:16.833 My name is Wes. 00:00:17.053 --> 00:00:17.953 And my name is Brent. 00:00:18.253 --> 00:00:22.093 Hello, gentlemen. Coming up on the show, today we're digging into the Linux 00:00:22.093 --> 00:00:26.533 news that's being shaped by delays and some interesting technical shifts that 00:00:26.533 --> 00:00:29.513 might actually matter more than they look at first. I'll tell you about that. 00:00:29.713 --> 00:00:33.073 Then there's a moment where the future actually showed up in Linux and everything 00:00:33.073 --> 00:00:34.533 worked. We'll share that story. 00:00:34.653 --> 00:00:37.453 And then we'll round it out with some great boosts, some picks, 00:00:37.633 --> 00:00:41.213 and a lot more. So before we go any further, let's say time-appropriate greetings 00:00:41.213 --> 00:00:44.213 to producer Jeff. Hey, PJ. 00:00:45.153 --> 00:00:45.473 Hello. 00:00:46.313 --> 00:00:50.693 It's the big game day, as they say. So we have a few up there in the quiet listening 00:00:50.693 --> 00:00:52.093 up the hello, hello, hello, mumble room. 00:00:52.413 --> 00:00:58.953 And PJ is the sole member brave enough to set the nachos aside long enough to say hello on the show. 00:01:00.113 --> 00:01:02.953 So why don't you make it a Tuesday on a Sunday next week and join us in our 00:01:02.953 --> 00:01:07.113 mumble room. And let's have a nice, vital, big mumble room. You know what I mean? 00:01:07.433 --> 00:01:09.053 I mean, if you do, you get a whole extra show. 00:01:09.313 --> 00:01:14.273 Yeah. Round of applause to people. Dijil just showed up. Round of applause to you guys. 00:01:15.984 --> 00:01:20.064 And of course, a big good morning to our friends over at Defined Networking. 00:01:20.184 --> 00:01:25.624 Go to defined.net slash unplugged. This is where you want to go to get 100 machines 00:01:25.624 --> 00:01:29.504 absolutely free, no credit card required on the decentralized managed VPN. 00:01:29.744 --> 00:01:32.624 They manage it for you. It runs Nebula VPN. 00:01:32.944 --> 00:01:36.644 Unlike traditional VPNs, Nebula's decentralized design keeps your network resilient. 00:01:37.024 --> 00:01:41.024 You can manage a home lab with it. I have a Nebula network that's just two nodes. 00:01:41.544 --> 00:01:45.204 And you can have a Nebula network that has thousands of nodes. 00:01:45.204 --> 00:01:50.844 entire global infrastructures across data centers, carrier grade NAT, whatever it might be. 00:01:51.164 --> 00:01:55.264 It's extremely resilient. Saved my butt the other day. I was able to get it 00:01:55.264 --> 00:01:58.124 on the wife's machine and save a problem before she even knew it was going on. 00:01:58.424 --> 00:02:00.264 It's so nice. You could go from 00:02:00.264 --> 00:02:03.724 this teeny tiny lean infrastructure where there's no big tech company. 00:02:03.844 --> 00:02:07.884 You don't need any sign on from Google or whoever to use your mesh net. 00:02:08.184 --> 00:02:13.024 You can do these tiny setups or you can go to these massive slack size scale, right? 00:02:13.124 --> 00:02:16.384 And it's incredible. And if you want to try it out, you can start with Managed 00:02:16.384 --> 00:02:18.184 Nebula. You can use 100 devices for free. 00:02:18.344 --> 00:02:22.264 You can really get a sense of it. It's a great product. It's also a lot leaner on the system. 00:02:23.404 --> 00:02:26.504 Shows up in multiple ways, on the CPU and on the network. 00:02:26.644 --> 00:02:29.784 It's really great for that. And it's got best-in-class encryption, 00:02:29.784 --> 00:02:31.864 and it is fantastic because, 00:02:32.524 --> 00:02:35.704 you control the keys, you control the lighthouse, so the redundancy, 00:02:35.944 --> 00:02:39.724 the discoverability, all of it is under your control, or you let them run it 00:02:39.724 --> 00:02:41.864 over at define.net slash unplugged. 00:02:41.944 --> 00:02:44.784 Then if you wanted to move on, you could. You could self-host it too. 00:02:45.664 --> 00:02:48.584 They're really, really great product because it's the Snebula open sourcing, 00:02:48.684 --> 00:02:50.524 something that we've been following for years. 00:02:51.264 --> 00:02:56.284 Absolutely. I think maybe we started watching in late 2017, early 2018. 00:02:56.584 --> 00:03:00.324 And so we knew there was something there. Now to see it really take off, 00:03:00.424 --> 00:03:01.044 it's really impressive. 00:03:01.564 --> 00:03:05.684 I just noticed on February 6th, we got an updated Android app. 00:03:05.864 --> 00:03:07.784 So, you know, if you are using it, go check that out. 00:03:07.924 --> 00:03:11.284 Check it out. Go over to defined.net slash unplug, support the show, 00:03:11.504 --> 00:03:14.224 and check out Nebula. It is fantastic. 00:03:16.965 --> 00:03:22.365 Just around the corner, 25 days away, Planet Nix and Scale 23X. 00:03:22.685 --> 00:03:26.445 We're working with our buddies over at Phlox, who's focused on making reproducible 00:03:26.445 --> 00:03:28.045 dev environments actually usable. 00:03:28.225 --> 00:03:30.805 They're sending us once again to Planet Nix for the second year. 00:03:30.965 --> 00:03:32.825 They're throwing a hell of an event. 00:03:33.265 --> 00:03:36.465 It's looking good. Year two is looking really, really good. 00:03:36.865 --> 00:03:42.305 And Brent, you have 19 days until you're going to be absolutely slammed to get down the road. 00:03:42.445 --> 00:03:46.665 It's about a 46-hour drive for you, buddy, which is six days of hardcore driving. 00:03:46.665 --> 00:03:47.525 How are you feeling about that? 00:03:48.305 --> 00:03:51.665 I'm glad you've been doing the travel math on this one for me. 00:03:51.825 --> 00:03:54.165 I appreciate it. Yeah. That sounds daunting. 00:03:54.445 --> 00:03:54.785 Sure. 00:03:54.945 --> 00:03:58.645 I think is the main emotion that comes across. And also, holy, 00:03:58.725 --> 00:04:01.505 I probably should leave tomorrow, right? That's what I should do? 00:04:01.665 --> 00:04:04.445 Yeah, well, if you want to have a nice drive. Here's another way to put it in 00:04:04.445 --> 00:04:09.125 perspective. There will be three more unplugs until we are in Pasadena. 00:04:09.385 --> 00:04:12.365 That's frightening. I mean, wonderful. It's coming soon. 00:04:12.865 --> 00:04:15.085 Just keep that one in your head. I think it's easier to work with. 00:04:15.085 --> 00:04:18.385 Mm-hmm. Yep. Three more lumps. So there you go. 00:04:18.505 --> 00:04:23.125 Check out planetnix.com for the details and then go get registered at scale. 00:04:23.305 --> 00:04:24.425 That gets you to both events. 00:04:25.065 --> 00:04:28.905 We have a link in the show notes for scale at socialinuxexpo.org. 00:04:29.005 --> 00:04:34.705 And you can use our promo code unpludge, U-N-P-L-G, to get 40% off your registration. It's no joke. 00:04:35.025 --> 00:04:37.845 And I've updated the meetup page a little bit as well. We, I think, 00:04:37.905 --> 00:04:42.125 are locking in the yard house because the other two locations are no longer in business. 00:04:42.665 --> 00:04:49.225 I was informed by a local listener which I really appreciated it is but it's 00:04:49.225 --> 00:04:51.985 great we already have a good showing and if you are planning to be there at 00:04:51.985 --> 00:04:54.305 our meetup please go sign up so we can let the venue know oh. 00:04:54.305 --> 00:04:57.125 Great already 25 potential attendees join the crowd. 00:04:58.765 --> 00:05:03.005 Meetup.com slash jupiter broadcasting for that and we'd love it if you could 00:05:03.005 --> 00:05:06.985 be there even if you're not going to one of the events show up and say hi we 00:05:06.985 --> 00:05:11.505 like that so there you go that's all the housekeeping I have for you, 00:05:14.749 --> 00:05:17.789 So we wanted to get everybody on the same page with a couple of stories that 00:05:17.789 --> 00:05:20.249 have gone down, and the first one you may have already heard about, 00:05:21.443 --> 00:05:25.203 It's not too surprising. We just wanted you to be aware. Valve has updated their 00:05:25.203 --> 00:05:29.143 plans for their recently announced upcoming hardware lineup. 00:05:29.523 --> 00:05:33.263 All three products announced last November are now expected to ship in the first 00:05:33.263 --> 00:05:37.023 half of the year instead of in early 2026. So it's a bit of a delay here. 00:05:37.263 --> 00:05:40.983 In a Steam community post, Valve explained the lack of firm release dates. 00:05:41.403 --> 00:05:46.243 Basically, ongoing RAM and SSD shortages combined with the rising prices, 00:05:46.523 --> 00:05:50.743 making it hard to lock in final pricing and also launch timelines. 00:05:51.283 --> 00:05:52.603 That's not too surprising, is it? 00:05:52.803 --> 00:05:56.483 No. Okay, but what are we talking about concretely? Well, it's the Steam machine, 00:05:56.743 --> 00:06:01.543 the Steam Frame VR headset, and that new Steam controller. 00:06:02.183 --> 00:06:05.163 In their statement, they did say this in a very Valve way, I thought. 00:06:05.163 --> 00:06:10.503 They have more, quote, work to do to land on concrete pricing and launch dates. 00:06:10.723 --> 00:06:11.723 It's like they don't even know. 00:06:11.823 --> 00:06:14.903 No, and are still kind of figuring that out internally. I mean, 00:06:14.983 --> 00:06:18.283 but they did then secondly emphasize, especially given how quickly hardware 00:06:18.283 --> 00:06:19.823 market conditions are changing right now. 00:06:19.823 --> 00:06:25.463 I think some of us maybe were lingering on to this hope that they had maybe bought a pre-stock. 00:06:26.083 --> 00:06:29.983 Which things were already rolling and done and you were just going to ship them. Yeah. 00:06:30.203 --> 00:06:34.283 And then we recently saw these rumors floated that there was a possible bare 00:06:34.283 --> 00:06:37.363 bones steam machine with no RAM or storage that they might ship. 00:06:38.543 --> 00:06:43.443 And they didn't seem to really give much life to that rumor in this press release 00:06:43.443 --> 00:06:46.543 and in the questions that they took. Do you think that would be a product? 00:06:46.883 --> 00:06:50.883 I mean, it might be for our crowd. I don't know. It doesn't seem like it competes 00:06:50.883 --> 00:06:52.603 as much in the console market. 00:06:52.763 --> 00:06:52.943 For sure. 00:06:53.103 --> 00:06:53.463 Yeah. 00:06:54.343 --> 00:06:59.083 I think in normal market conditions, a bare-bones steam machine would be the one I would want. 00:07:00.263 --> 00:07:03.283 But I can't buy RAM or storage any cheaper than Valve can. 00:07:03.923 --> 00:07:04.283 Exactly. 00:07:04.603 --> 00:07:07.703 So yeah, it's like if I have it, yeah, then I would like a bare-bones machine. 00:07:07.943 --> 00:07:10.803 I'm curious that if you're listening to this and you could boost and let me 00:07:10.803 --> 00:07:13.063 know if you would buy a bare-bones steam machine if they offered it. 00:07:13.743 --> 00:07:16.403 And they might be able to ship that sooner would be the advantage. 00:07:16.403 --> 00:07:20.443 So if you had the money to spend and you could buy your own storage and your own RAM, 00:07:21.528 --> 00:07:23.708 And you could get your hands on this a couple of months before others. 00:07:23.928 --> 00:07:28.688 One of the questions I have is like, how long can they wait for prices to stabilize 00:07:28.688 --> 00:07:34.688 or to secure hardware before the product just gets older and older and less worth releasing? 00:07:35.248 --> 00:07:38.068 Why is it two grand for a three-year-old product? 00:07:38.188 --> 00:07:41.008 You're right. Yeah, that's tricky. Maybe they know something we don't know. 00:07:41.268 --> 00:07:45.048 Maybe they know some other vendors about to come online and start manufacturing RAM. 00:07:46.261 --> 00:07:49.481 I don't know. But that's a good point. If they wait too long, 00:07:49.861 --> 00:07:52.041 they're not going to be super competitive machines. 00:07:52.461 --> 00:07:52.821 Yeah. 00:07:53.281 --> 00:07:57.381 Huh. Yeah. Yeah, I'm not sure. I guess what we do know is that it's going to 00:07:57.381 --> 00:07:59.121 be later than they originally suggested. 00:07:59.661 --> 00:08:04.501 But they're still, for now, promising first half. So what, by June, July? 00:08:05.101 --> 00:08:06.321 That's what I would take it to mean. 00:08:07.241 --> 00:08:08.701 Assuming they don't change that again. 00:08:09.041 --> 00:08:11.561 Right. Do we think it even ships in this year? 00:08:12.561 --> 00:08:14.781 Jeff, how are you feeling about this? Were you going to buy one of these? 00:08:15.741 --> 00:08:18.961 Yeah i'm a little sad i really really really want a frame. 00:08:18.961 --> 00:08:25.161 Yes yes me too that's the thing for me is the frame i'm surprised the controller's 00:08:25.161 --> 00:08:28.361 delayed that's interesting maybe maybe there's memory on the controller it's. 00:08:28.361 --> 00:08:29.301 All that ram in the controller. 00:08:29.301 --> 00:08:34.301 You feel for valve because when they announced this it was maybe the writing 00:08:34.301 --> 00:08:37.821 was on the wall at that point but it wasn't obvious where this was all going 00:08:37.821 --> 00:08:39.101 price-wise certainly wasn't. 00:08:39.101 --> 00:08:39.801 Where we are now. 00:08:39.801 --> 00:08:43.181 And now here we are and it's like you feel for don't you i. 00:08:43.181 --> 00:08:47.961 Think if they can get through the covid stuff with the steam deck i'm pretty 00:08:47.961 --> 00:08:51.241 sure they're going to get through this too they'll find some way it won't be 00:08:51.241 --> 00:08:56.481 as much as we hope you know i don't think they're going to do any better than 00:08:56.481 --> 00:08:57.381 they did with the steam deck. 00:08:57.381 --> 00:09:00.301 That's true though that was challenging got it out yeah and they. 00:09:00.301 --> 00:09:03.561 Are very smart you know they have a lot of smart people working there that's. 00:09:03.561 --> 00:09:06.941 A good point all right pj you're making me feel better i like that all right 00:09:06.941 --> 00:09:10.561 here's another story that may suggest an interesting shift virtual 00:09:10.561 --> 00:09:13.481 box is finally learning to ride on 00:09:13.481 --> 00:09:16.281 top of kvm some code changes are landing 00:09:16.281 --> 00:09:19.661 in virtual box that could have big implications long 00:09:19.661 --> 00:09:24.761 term for how people use it it's just being tested now they're beginning to support 00:09:24.761 --> 00:09:30.481 native kvm virtualization backend for the virtual box application that's crazy 00:09:30.481 --> 00:09:33.981 i know it's a long-standing ask from the linux users out there who just want 00:09:33.981 --> 00:09:36.841 no i don't want a little kernel module. I totally get that. 00:09:37.261 --> 00:09:40.061 Very early, very opt-in, hard to get. We'll get more into that. 00:09:40.903 --> 00:09:46.863 But this does seem to be a trend that we just keep seeing is that hypervisors 00:09:46.863 --> 00:09:51.043 over time are just adopting Linux's native virtualization stack and just saying, 00:09:51.243 --> 00:09:53.543 ah, fuck, you can just screw it. You can just use that. 00:09:53.923 --> 00:09:57.423 I mean, VMware did a similar thing. I just think that's fascinating. 00:09:57.703 --> 00:10:00.503 I mean, this is one of the main reasons I moved away from VirtualBox. 00:10:00.643 --> 00:10:06.463 It was the first virtualization software that I used way back when I was stuck 00:10:06.463 --> 00:10:08.823 on, let's just say, other operating systems. 00:10:09.463 --> 00:10:12.363 um but then once i discovered like why there's 00:10:12.363 --> 00:10:15.183 all these kernel modules and stuff that was the reason 00:10:15.183 --> 00:10:18.363 for me to move away from it so i would assume for other linux 00:10:18.363 --> 00:10:21.503 users this is about reducing kernel friction so less 00:10:21.503 --> 00:10:24.663 reliance on those proprietary kernel drivers 00:10:24.663 --> 00:10:27.923 that you have to load and sometimes break better compatibility 00:10:27.923 --> 00:10:31.063 with hardened kernels secure boot and distro 00:10:31.063 --> 00:10:35.923 updates right right that is a good point would be a great point and i think 00:10:35.923 --> 00:10:40.543 from a privacy and freedom angle basically kvm is part of the kernel so it's 00:10:40.543 --> 00:10:45.343 audited it's upstream transparent and running virtual box on kvm shifts that 00:10:45.343 --> 00:10:50.283 trust towards the kernel rather than vendor specific modules what. 00:10:50.283 --> 00:10:51.603 Brent you don't trust oracle. 00:10:51.603 --> 00:10:57.483 Well let's just say i have less reasons to trust oracle than i do the kernel fair. 00:10:57.483 --> 00:10:58.303 Yeah good point. 00:10:59.435 --> 00:11:03.555 So they're pretty much Oracle's positioning this as a fallback, 00:11:03.575 --> 00:11:06.455 so not the preferred path for VirtualBox. 00:11:06.715 --> 00:11:10.415 So the messaging still centers Oracle's hypervisor as the, quote, 00:11:11.035 --> 00:11:13.715 better choice, especially for legacy workloads. 00:11:14.035 --> 00:11:16.835 Yeah, isn't that interesting? Like, I mean, I guess I get it. 00:11:16.915 --> 00:11:19.515 They're very proud of what they've done, and they've specialized it over the 00:11:19.515 --> 00:11:20.835 years to address their users. 00:11:21.015 --> 00:11:23.915 They're not just chucking the old one on the ground, throwing it behind the bag. 00:11:23.915 --> 00:11:28.335 But it's not often where somebody submits an upstream patch so that way their 00:11:28.335 --> 00:11:31.395 software can take advantage of something in the kernel and then includes like 00:11:31.395 --> 00:11:34.495 a five bullet point. But this is why ours is better, right? 00:11:34.875 --> 00:11:38.215 Did anything in there stand out to you that was reasonable? I mean, there must be some. 00:11:38.435 --> 00:11:41.855 Yeah, a lot of it is like legacy and exotic guests, right? 00:11:41.855 --> 00:11:46.595 So if you think about KVM, when it came of age, which was after VirtualBox, 00:11:46.735 --> 00:11:50.835 and it's been very Linux native, and it's been used a lot by hyperscalers to 00:11:50.835 --> 00:11:54.635 run cloud businesses, running a lot of Linux guests, 00:11:55.135 --> 00:11:57.715 whereas VirtualBox can run a whole bunch of stuff. 00:11:57.855 --> 00:12:01.515 It's got accurate A20 gate emulation, which is important for some DOS stuff. 00:12:01.635 --> 00:12:05.315 It's got advanced instruction emulation, ring zero device emulation tricks, 00:12:05.515 --> 00:12:07.815 aggressive VM exit optimizations. 00:12:08.455 --> 00:12:12.135 For modern guests, you really don't notice a ton of difference for most situations. 00:12:12.135 --> 00:12:17.495 But if you do have some particular legacy workloads, you might find some areas 00:12:17.495 --> 00:12:19.275 where the old driver would be better. 00:12:20.055 --> 00:12:23.855 I still think even partial KVM support is, you know, a win for us. 00:12:23.955 --> 00:12:25.655 It is, as you said, hard to get. 00:12:25.775 --> 00:12:29.215 It's in the latest VirtualBox Git and Test Builds, Linux only for now. 00:12:29.335 --> 00:12:30.195 So you can't, you know, obviously. 00:12:30.495 --> 00:12:33.175 So you have to go build it yourself. 00:12:33.355 --> 00:12:34.335 Okay. All right. 00:12:34.335 --> 00:12:38.135 Or I'd be comfortable with getting one of those test builds from somewhere else. 00:12:38.475 --> 00:12:42.015 You can opt into it explicitly if you want, or as Brent was saying, 00:12:42.275 --> 00:12:46.835 I think probably what is probably an upgrade for folks and end users who maybe 00:12:46.835 --> 00:12:50.235 don't know what a kernel module is, is this could be a easy fallback, 00:12:50.315 --> 00:12:52.455 right? So it could try to run with the virtual box stuff. 00:12:53.385 --> 00:12:57.805 Sees KVM's already loaded, kernel conflict, just go use KVM. 00:12:57.905 --> 00:13:01.085 Maybe you won't have all the features. Maybe it won't be quite the same, but it'll work. 00:13:01.125 --> 00:13:02.725 That's going to be the main use case initially for this. 00:13:02.725 --> 00:13:04.785 Probably would. I think it's going to convince them to do it, right? 00:13:04.805 --> 00:13:10.385 Yeah, yeah. I wonder if long-term, if there isn't some potential for VirtualBox 00:13:10.385 --> 00:13:15.785 to essentially become one of the recommended user space VM managers for KVM. 00:13:16.345 --> 00:13:19.945 That was my first thought is, oh, it would be a nice way to manage a bunch of 00:13:19.945 --> 00:13:23.345 KVM systems, especially if I could remote connect from my desktop, 00:13:23.505 --> 00:13:28.645 if I could have the VirtualBox VM management UI on my desktop and then I connect 00:13:28.645 --> 00:13:33.925 to my KVM server and I could manage all my virtual machines at KVM with the VirtualBox UI, I mean, 00:13:34.105 --> 00:13:36.405 I think I would at least give that a try. 00:13:36.625 --> 00:13:40.345 It has been, right? Like it is in some of the best ways of open source, 00:13:40.445 --> 00:13:42.845 even with its own licensing complications in Oracle and all the rest, 00:13:42.985 --> 00:13:44.545 like it's been around for a long time. 00:13:44.725 --> 00:13:48.425 It was early at having a good, consistent cross-platform experience. 00:13:48.585 --> 00:13:52.025 It's just this like very available if you need virtualization software. 00:13:52.225 --> 00:13:54.785 And that has a lot of utility, especially now if it can kind of adapt. 00:13:55.225 --> 00:13:59.945 I do also think you kind of hit on the Linux side trend of folks using more 00:13:59.945 --> 00:14:02.005 of this existing in-kernel infrastructure. 00:14:02.225 --> 00:14:05.285 And I think that's a trend that is beyond Linux, right? 00:14:05.365 --> 00:14:10.225 Like you've seen Apple offer a lot more robust virtualization primitives in their system. 00:14:10.405 --> 00:14:13.265 Right, they provide the plumbing and then you write to the API, essentially. 00:14:13.425 --> 00:14:16.325 And same on the Microsoft stack, right? You got Hyper-V side, 00:14:16.425 --> 00:14:17.525 you've got the WSL stuff. 00:14:17.685 --> 00:14:20.365 There's just a lot more primitives that you can do. There are still products, 00:14:20.505 --> 00:14:23.245 especially Microsoft, but like there are still products built on it, 00:14:23.305 --> 00:14:26.045 but you get a lot more of that base infrastructure that you can plumb yourself. 00:14:26.485 --> 00:14:28.865 And it makes sense, right? They're in control of the kernel and all of that. 00:14:29.873 --> 00:14:33.673 We've made and heard some wild theories in the past of Microsoft, 00:14:34.033 --> 00:14:37.393 maybe Windows is just going to take this approach and become Linux under the 00:14:37.393 --> 00:14:38.873 hood with a nice, fancy interface. 00:14:39.173 --> 00:14:43.093 So my big question becomes, do all roads lead to Linux? 00:14:43.753 --> 00:14:45.053 Yeah, it seems like it. 00:14:46.333 --> 00:14:47.693 That's what it seems like here. 00:14:47.833 --> 00:14:51.673 Here we are, right? I've been talking about Linux for 20 years. 00:14:51.833 --> 00:14:56.693 And can you believe it's still relevant after 20 years? And it's more relevant than ever? 00:14:56.713 --> 00:14:57.253 It's more relevant. 00:14:57.333 --> 00:15:00.353 Yeah. There's not a lot of technology like that. 00:15:00.613 --> 00:15:05.373 And it is this trend of all things just kind of moving to the kernel. 00:15:05.673 --> 00:15:07.933 And they stop their own way of doing things. 00:15:08.373 --> 00:15:11.193 Now, VirtualBox is going to keep going for a while with their own modules, to be clear. 00:15:11.333 --> 00:15:15.573 Did you see this week's unrelated, but that someone proposed like a machine 00:15:15.573 --> 00:15:19.453 learning framework offload for the kernel? So it really is everything in the kernel. 00:15:19.533 --> 00:15:24.813 Whatever you want. Right? Use eBPF. I don't care. Well, speaking of things in 00:15:24.813 --> 00:15:29.753 the kernel and sometimes outside the kernel, let's talk about BcacheFS, 00:15:30.073 --> 00:15:33.833 big update in just the last couple of days over there. 00:15:33.973 --> 00:15:38.193 And I have one particular feature that I am very excited about. 00:15:39.536 --> 00:15:43.916 I'll hold that because I'm going to let you take the stage for a moment on this Bcache update. 00:15:44.216 --> 00:15:48.716 Yeah, so this is on the heels. We had 1.36 back in the end of January. 00:15:48.796 --> 00:15:50.536 That had a lot of internal stuff. 00:15:50.956 --> 00:15:56.396 This time we get a little bit of user-facing stuff with the new BcacheFSFS timestats 00:15:56.396 --> 00:16:00.376 command. It's an interactive TUI for monitoring various file system internals, 00:16:00.516 --> 00:16:04.756 slow paths, and device performance, duration, frequency tracking for various events. 00:16:04.876 --> 00:16:05.296 Wow. 00:16:05.496 --> 00:16:07.536 Helpful for diagnosing performance issues. 00:16:07.536 --> 00:16:11.896 Brent, did you catch the part in there that I'm excited about? Did you catch that? 00:16:11.896 --> 00:16:15.896 Uh-huh. I think the light bulb turned on for me, too. A little TUI to do this stuff. 00:16:15.896 --> 00:16:16.716 This is great. 00:16:16.916 --> 00:16:18.596 It's good for the people like you and I. 00:16:18.676 --> 00:16:22.996 A file system repair tool with a TUI? Are you kidding me? To look at some of 00:16:22.996 --> 00:16:25.456 the internals and device performance and what's going on? 00:16:25.956 --> 00:16:27.996 That is so up my alley. 00:16:28.376 --> 00:16:33.496 There's also some other improvements around in the output, like improved BKeshFS 00:16:33.496 --> 00:16:35.036 reconcile status output. 00:16:35.036 --> 00:16:40.856 I saw on Reddit just some users in Kent chatting about, in general, 00:16:40.936 --> 00:16:44.176 some of the interface and the outputs, because there's kind of an array of, 00:16:44.216 --> 00:16:46.716 there's some up-to-date stuff, there's some older stuff, so there may be one 00:16:46.716 --> 00:16:48.476 area of porcelain that gets some more attention. 00:16:48.896 --> 00:16:53.156 But something we know is getting more attention is that in the release announcement, 00:16:53.356 --> 00:16:57.236 Kent said 136.1 is out, which we were just talking about. 00:16:57.676 --> 00:17:00.056 The next release will be Erasure Coding. 00:17:00.396 --> 00:17:01.396 Yeah, so tell me about this. 00:17:01.516 --> 00:17:04.836 So that would be the Parity Raid kind of style stuff, right? 00:17:04.836 --> 00:17:11.016 We made 5.6 in the Bcash of S world coming for Bcash of S, or in the Butterfest 00:17:11.016 --> 00:17:12.056 world coming for Bcash of S. 00:17:12.941 --> 00:17:13.861 That's massive. 00:17:14.061 --> 00:17:14.161 Yeah. 00:17:14.661 --> 00:17:19.001 And a lot of the base stuff has been there, but all the user side stuff, 00:17:19.161 --> 00:17:23.181 and especially like you can make these file systems if you do experimental things 00:17:23.181 --> 00:17:26.541 or enable flags, but there hasn't been a lot of tooling support for actually 00:17:26.541 --> 00:17:27.961 doing anything if a disk dies. 00:17:28.301 --> 00:17:31.661 So you could test it and use it, but you don't want to run a prod system on it. 00:17:32.761 --> 00:17:37.341 And the last little BcacheFS bit for today is, it's not all good things. 00:17:37.401 --> 00:17:39.501 It is still an experimental developing file system. 00:17:39.621 --> 00:17:40.641 A little bit of a PSA here. 00:17:40.781 --> 00:17:44.281 Indeed. 19 hours ago on rbcachefs early 00:17:44.281 --> 00:17:47.461 reconcile had a serious bug in the data update path 00:17:47.461 --> 00:17:51.921 if an extent lives on devices that are all being evacuated while being evacuated 00:17:51.921 --> 00:17:55.341 they're considered to have durability zero and the old code for reconciling 00:17:55.341 --> 00:18:00.081 the existing extent with what the data update path wrote would drop those replicas 00:18:00.081 --> 00:18:04.861 too soon okay so if you're on 1.33 through 1.35. 00:18:04.861 --> 00:18:06.241 You need to upgrade you. 00:18:06.241 --> 00:18:06.761 Need to upgrade, 00:18:09.252 --> 00:18:12.452 Good news is the new code is much more rigorous with how it decides when to 00:18:12.452 --> 00:18:16.952 drop replicas. And so far, only like a handful of people have been hit by it. 00:18:17.152 --> 00:18:20.232 As usual, I have seen Kent doing a lot of on-the-ground support, 00:18:20.232 --> 00:18:22.012 both in the IRC and on the subreddit. 00:18:22.132 --> 00:18:26.872 So if you do have file system issues for your sake and for everyone else's sake 00:18:26.872 --> 00:18:29.452 as this thing gets developed, don't be afraid to reach out. 00:18:29.632 --> 00:18:34.512 Yeah, he's very engaged. I just realized, I told the story to the members recently, 00:18:34.672 --> 00:18:40.332 but I'm just around the two-year mark of BcacheFS on one of my absolute most 00:18:40.332 --> 00:18:42.732 important production systems, runs 24-7, 00:18:42.932 --> 00:18:46.412 and it's been using BcacheFS for its critical data drive. 00:18:46.752 --> 00:18:52.292 And I do that not necessarily saying that you should and not necessarily recommending 00:18:52.292 --> 00:18:55.892 it, but so that way I can be kind of on the front line and report to you how it's going. 00:18:55.892 --> 00:18:59.492 And so if we're five years down the road and I'm talking about Bcash FS, 00:18:59.772 --> 00:19:02.072 you know, I've been using it for five, six years at that point. 00:19:02.192 --> 00:19:06.612 Right. So I think there's some credibility in actually deploying it and testing 00:19:06.612 --> 00:19:09.152 it with data that is literally putting my money where my mouth is. 00:19:09.252 --> 00:19:12.252 But I don't know if everybody should do that yet, but I'm very impressed because 00:19:12.252 --> 00:19:14.692 two years ago it was in a much different state than it is now. 00:19:14.812 --> 00:19:16.172 And now it doesn't feel risky at all. 00:19:16.172 --> 00:19:18.592 Yeah, definitely. And a lot of improvements, right? And we're still getting 00:19:18.592 --> 00:19:22.592 some really nice, like, being able to do more upgrades in the background or 00:19:22.592 --> 00:19:25.672 without, you know, not having to have the drive offline to do them. 00:19:26.472 --> 00:19:29.152 It's now a very robust file system in a lot of ways, which is great. 00:19:29.352 --> 00:19:32.812 I mean, I, again, don't do as I do, but I'm at the point where if I can, 00:19:33.032 --> 00:19:36.792 I'm going to make it my default file system on every root install for workstations 00:19:36.792 --> 00:19:39.552 and laptops going forward. You already have been doing that. 00:19:40.072 --> 00:19:42.152 You've been running it for a long time on that laptop. 00:19:42.152 --> 00:19:45.392 Yeah, I think it's summer 2024. 00:19:46.632 --> 00:19:50.692 Wow. And you've just been going through the kernel upgrades kind of regularly and just... 00:19:51.382 --> 00:19:55.822 And then I've also got it running on my home router box at the moment. 00:19:56.062 --> 00:19:57.182 I don't have any RAID systems. 00:19:57.582 --> 00:20:00.942 So I do want to set that. I mean, I've dabbled with some, but no permanent ones. 00:20:01.082 --> 00:20:03.402 I don't know. The router one tickles me the most, right, Brent? 00:20:03.602 --> 00:20:04.362 It's like, that's the one. 00:20:04.362 --> 00:20:05.162 Because, like, why? 00:20:05.302 --> 00:20:07.622 Yeah. You can do extended four on a router. 00:20:07.842 --> 00:20:09.182 You can do anything on a router. 00:20:11.702 --> 00:20:14.362 That was actually one of the first ones I built, I think. I think I was just... 00:20:14.362 --> 00:20:14.962 Oh, yeah, why not? 00:20:14.962 --> 00:20:16.502 I was, like, redoing the system. 00:20:16.662 --> 00:20:16.802 Yeah. 00:20:16.942 --> 00:20:21.242 It was there. And there was... That did buy me one time, I will admit. 00:20:21.382 --> 00:20:25.802 with what wasn't a byte. It was just, it had been an old enough file system 00:20:25.802 --> 00:20:28.382 that I had to go through some of those on-disk upgrades. 00:20:28.862 --> 00:20:33.262 So I did have to do one update where my network was offline for like 20 minutes while it did that. 00:20:33.442 --> 00:20:37.942 I want to ask right now, if you're listening, what is your router file system of choice? 00:20:37.962 --> 00:20:40.902 If you're building a router or a system like that, boost in or send us an email. 00:20:41.042 --> 00:20:43.102 What is your router file system of choice? Let us know. 00:20:43.602 --> 00:20:47.282 Yeah, I have ridden the file system way for a long time. So I think that's kind 00:20:47.282 --> 00:20:49.982 of one of the reasons why I'm a little bit more comfortable using BcacheFS. 00:20:50.682 --> 00:20:54.482 I switched to SUSE back in the day because they supported Riser FS. 00:20:55.182 --> 00:20:59.122 And I needed extended attributes for Samba shares. And I needed support for 00:20:59.122 --> 00:21:02.262 a lot of little files because I was doing images of checks, JPEGs. 00:21:02.722 --> 00:21:05.402 And so I went with Riser FS way back in the day. 00:21:05.682 --> 00:21:11.162 And then when ButterFS came around, I adopted it and got so burned early on. 00:21:11.302 --> 00:21:15.202 Some of the early Linux unplugs are me ranting about losing my machine to ButterFS. 00:21:15.562 --> 00:21:16.062 Yep. 00:21:16.702 --> 00:21:20.722 And now I have it everywhere. And I'm starting to do that again with BcashFS. 00:21:21.262 --> 00:21:25.022 And then I have a lot of my scary raids around, which you guys remember my scary raid, right? 00:21:25.762 --> 00:21:27.042 Oh, yeah. How could you forget? 00:21:27.282 --> 00:21:29.742 Which is my, it's a raid zero of just a bunch of spinning rust. 00:21:29.902 --> 00:21:31.362 Well, you forget everything if it disfails. 00:21:31.802 --> 00:21:36.702 That's true. And I have a scary raid here in the studio on the studio machine. 00:21:36.702 --> 00:21:38.782 And I have a scary raid on my workstation upstairs. 00:21:39.302 --> 00:21:44.262 And I name it slash scary raid. So I always remind myself this could blow up at any time. 00:21:44.762 --> 00:21:48.902 Anything you put here is ephemeral. And so that's my little mental trick is scary raid. 00:21:49.322 --> 00:21:55.802 And that right now on all my systems, all my scary raids are XFS. 00:21:57.002 --> 00:21:57.502 Wow. 00:21:57.782 --> 00:22:02.122 Yeah. All my Scary Raids are XFS. And I don't know, I just, it's legacy because 00:22:02.122 --> 00:22:06.702 they've been around for years because I reload the boxes and then I just remount the Scary Raid. 00:22:07.062 --> 00:22:09.362 You know, because I've always got the Scary Raid. It's just sitting right there. 00:22:10.002 --> 00:22:13.362 So are you going to upgrade that to a BcacheFS Scary Raid? 00:22:13.422 --> 00:22:16.562 Well, this is what I'm thinking, is the next generation. 00:22:16.662 --> 00:22:21.702 The next generation of a Scary Raid would be like a bunch of used SSDs that 00:22:21.702 --> 00:22:25.542 I just slam into one big volume and use BcacheFS for that. 00:22:25.542 --> 00:22:28.342 I should say that was the other factor on the router box is it's pretty much 00:22:28.342 --> 00:22:31.542 just a NixOS config in Git, so there wasn't a lot of data on there. 00:22:31.842 --> 00:22:34.322 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think if I were to, you know, 00:22:34.402 --> 00:22:36.642 because all my scary raids are identical disks. 00:22:36.782 --> 00:22:41.042 And if I were to do a mix of drive size and just sort of mush all that together, 00:22:41.282 --> 00:22:45.342 I think I would call that messy raid. That would be a messy raid. 00:22:48.746 --> 00:22:51.446 Well, I just want to take a moment and thank our members. We don't have an advertiser 00:22:51.446 --> 00:22:55.706 for this spot yet, although we do have the world's best Linux audience, 00:22:55.866 --> 00:22:57.186 the world's largest Linux audience. 00:22:57.346 --> 00:23:00.866 We've been around for over 12 years doing this show. I've been doing podcasting for 20 years. 00:23:01.006 --> 00:23:04.426 So if you would like to reach one of the best audiences with somebody that knows 00:23:04.426 --> 00:23:07.686 how to do podcast ads, send me an email at chris at jupiterbroadcasting.com. 00:23:07.926 --> 00:23:12.526 In the meantime, thank you, members, jupiterbroadcasting.com slash membership. 00:23:12.906 --> 00:23:15.886 I don't know. I know you can get the Linux unplugged. Jupiter.party for the whole network. 00:23:16.926 --> 00:23:20.046 I don't need to go through the whole thing. You guys know it, 00:23:20.246 --> 00:23:21.526 so I'll just say thank you very much. 00:23:21.666 --> 00:23:27.526 There's not a lot of big commercial demand for a Linux podcast that is talking 00:23:27.526 --> 00:23:29.486 about file system nuances like this. 00:23:29.626 --> 00:23:34.386 I don't know if that surprises you, but it turns out people that are selling 00:23:34.386 --> 00:23:38.646 ads on podcasts and YouTube, they don't find file system discussion particularly 00:23:38.646 --> 00:23:42.366 interesting and doesn't really reach their radar. are. 00:23:42.486 --> 00:23:47.866 So we do have to lean more on listener support than a typical podcast that you might listen to. 00:23:48.106 --> 00:23:52.286 Because what we do is we use that listener support to give us the runway to 00:23:52.286 --> 00:23:56.346 actually nerd out on these topics and go for the stuff that is never going to 00:23:56.346 --> 00:23:57.346 get us any play on YouTube. 00:23:57.506 --> 00:24:00.646 We're never going to get a clip on TikTok. We're never going to show up in some 00:24:00.646 --> 00:24:05.046 sort of advertiser's keyword search dashboard thing, right? It's never going to happen for us. 00:24:06.112 --> 00:24:08.532 And that's okay. We're fine with that because we have listener support. 00:24:08.752 --> 00:24:10.292 So there's a couple of ways you can do it. 00:24:11.012 --> 00:24:15.832 We have the show membership. Those are our core contributors at linuxunplugged.com slash membership. 00:24:16.132 --> 00:24:19.652 We have the jupyter.party membership that gives you access to all the shows 00:24:19.652 --> 00:24:22.232 and their special features. Every show has special features. 00:24:22.532 --> 00:24:27.052 And then you can boost us. And that is not only a signal, but it also supports 00:24:27.052 --> 00:24:32.492 that particular production and gives us an idea of like that topic worked or didn't work. 00:24:32.632 --> 00:24:36.232 And so there's several ways where you can participate. and we really do appreciate 00:24:36.232 --> 00:24:39.932 it because we couldn't make this kind of content where we talk about these nerdy 00:24:39.932 --> 00:24:41.852 esoteric things that actually do matter. 00:24:42.472 --> 00:24:45.712 It's not our fault that the advertisers don't realize this stuff matters. 00:24:45.892 --> 00:24:46.912 Right? It's not our fault. 00:24:47.152 --> 00:24:50.892 This stuff does matter and it matters to you just like it matters to us. 00:24:51.032 --> 00:24:55.872 So thank you very much for the support and you can find membership links in the show notes as well. 00:25:00.200 --> 00:25:04.300 A little while ago, we took a moment on the show to plant our flag and say all 00:25:04.300 --> 00:25:08.060 this assisted AI stuff was coming for Linux administration. 00:25:08.680 --> 00:25:13.660 And the last few weeks, with all the OpenClaw excitement, might be proving that out. 00:25:13.900 --> 00:25:17.820 But there's also been a lot of pushback to all these big tech commercial models. 00:25:18.020 --> 00:25:22.640 And for some of us, it's made us more excited about local open source models. 00:25:23.740 --> 00:25:29.040 Over on ItsFoss, Bhwan Mishra wrote about ditching Clawed code and using the 00:25:29.040 --> 00:25:32.340 open-source Quen model for real sysadmin work. 00:25:32.460 --> 00:25:34.280 I liked hearing about this, guys. 00:25:34.640 --> 00:25:35.200 Yeah, me too. 00:25:35.480 --> 00:25:39.660 Yeah, so the author dropped Cloud Code, went with local Quen code because it 00:25:39.660 --> 00:25:41.640 behaves more like a proper Linux tool. 00:25:41.780 --> 00:25:45.680 He says he could install it locally. It was open-source, and it shows every 00:25:45.680 --> 00:25:48.260 command it's going to execute before it actually runs it. 00:25:48.540 --> 00:25:51.800 And you can describe a task in plain English, and the Quen model, 00:25:51.960 --> 00:25:56.240 which is a free model that you can run on your own machine, will just turn that 00:25:56.240 --> 00:26:01.360 into reviewable shell commands that you can then authorize, and then it'll execute them. 00:26:01.880 --> 00:26:07.000 Yeah, it's pretty neat. So Quen comes from Alibaba, so it is a Chinese model, 00:26:07.080 --> 00:26:08.260 but it is also open-weight. 00:26:08.460 --> 00:26:11.760 Some folks have found some kinds of censorship or other sort of things you might 00:26:11.760 --> 00:26:13.480 expect from some of these Chinese models. 00:26:13.880 --> 00:26:19.640 But it has also been optimized for agent stuff, so has Quen code. 00:26:20.640 --> 00:26:25.360 They have various specific models, especially like the code-focused models itself 00:26:25.360 --> 00:26:28.340 sort of aimed at exactly these tasks. 00:26:28.600 --> 00:26:32.620 And in fact, even the app itself is a fork of Gemini CLI. So it's under the 00:26:32.620 --> 00:26:35.260 Apache 2 license. They look pretty much exactly the same. 00:26:35.520 --> 00:26:35.980 Oh, interesting. Okay. 00:26:36.040 --> 00:26:40.420 But the Quen folks wanted to add in, like Gemini CLI does a lot of stuff because 00:26:40.420 --> 00:26:44.760 it's attached to this very broad Gemini product and stuff, and you can only use it with that. 00:26:44.920 --> 00:26:48.960 But they added support for using local stuff. They also optimized it more for 00:26:48.960 --> 00:26:50.720 doing these coding and agent tasks. 00:26:50.780 --> 00:26:51.660 Very nice. Okay. 00:26:52.732 --> 00:26:56.332 That's, I didn't realize that you could, I guess I never looked at Gemini CLI. 00:26:56.432 --> 00:26:57.712 I didn't realize they had made that open source. 00:26:58.132 --> 00:27:02.732 Yeah, isn't that nice? I mean, the back end isn't, but at least the front end is. 00:27:02.872 --> 00:27:03.052 Yeah, yeah. 00:27:03.352 --> 00:27:07.832 And, you know, it is like, maybe you don't do everything with one of these particular 00:27:07.832 --> 00:27:12.672 local models, depending on what kind of system and GPU and what you can actually run. 00:27:14.192 --> 00:27:17.952 But as these things get better and better, like writing shell scripts, 00:27:18.172 --> 00:27:20.332 or especially like, you know, especially even silly stuff like, 00:27:20.332 --> 00:27:23.832 Like, oh, dang, I downloaded a bunch of files with spaces in there, 00:27:23.932 --> 00:27:25.772 and they got weird names, and I just want it cleaned up. 00:27:26.072 --> 00:27:27.032 That happens to me all the time. 00:27:27.092 --> 00:27:30.852 Even stuff you can run locally can definitely handle a spitting out of Bash script to do that. 00:27:31.192 --> 00:27:34.592 Yeah, it is really exciting to see where these local models are going. 00:27:34.592 --> 00:27:39.892 I feel like I'm in this tortured position where I recognize the utility now 00:27:39.892 --> 00:27:43.652 in a way that I kind of missed the boat on when hardware was reasonably priced. 00:27:45.732 --> 00:27:47.172 Where's that open source time machine? 00:27:47.172 --> 00:27:51.952 Now I'm so GPU starved, and I've been looking at Venice AI, which is a pretty 00:27:51.952 --> 00:27:56.152 good privacy-focused model system that you can use with agents and whatnot. 00:27:56.312 --> 00:27:58.792 But the tokens are more expensive because of the privacy layer. 00:27:59.192 --> 00:28:03.432 And this gets really expensive very fast when you want to do more extensive things. 00:28:03.532 --> 00:28:08.472 So it is with a particular eye we're watching these local models and seeing where they go. 00:28:09.432 --> 00:28:13.012 Just a little background on something we tried last week. This was a very interesting 00:28:13.012 --> 00:28:16.592 experiment, and we wanted to share it with you. We have wanted to stand up a 00:28:16.592 --> 00:28:18.672 production Mattermost server for years. 00:28:19.152 --> 00:28:23.572 We've spun up a few. We've toyed with them kind of as just experiments. 00:28:23.872 --> 00:28:29.172 We've even ran a few project-specific Mattermost when we're working on something with people outside. 00:28:29.272 --> 00:28:33.212 JB will spin up a Mattermost real quick, but they really just throw away Mattermost, 00:28:33.232 --> 00:28:34.812 and we don't really spend a lot of time with them. 00:28:36.166 --> 00:28:41.266 We wanted something we could use long-term. So last week before the show, 00:28:41.486 --> 00:28:46.706 I had been working with one of these open claw agents, just going over best 00:28:46.706 --> 00:28:50.366 system practices, focus on this, consider this, security. 00:28:50.946 --> 00:28:53.666 And the stuff we normally want or don't want to see in a system. 00:28:53.866 --> 00:28:59.486 Yeah, exactly. And so also I've been working to delegate some subtasks to agents and stuff like that. 00:29:00.066 --> 00:29:05.746 So naturally, I thought, let's do something really stupid and give this thing 00:29:05.746 --> 00:29:07.526 API access to Cloudflare. 00:29:09.306 --> 00:29:13.586 I figured, why not? I had an old domain that I'd sat around for years. 00:29:13.586 --> 00:29:16.786 I don't use. I could set up a limited scope API credentials. 00:29:16.986 --> 00:29:21.586 I was about to say that we've already gotten to the point of maturity in that 00:29:21.586 --> 00:29:24.226 side of the industry is really useful if you're trying to use agents. 00:29:24.366 --> 00:29:25.366 Like, don't give it everything. 00:29:25.546 --> 00:29:30.206 No. So I gave it this old domain I had sitting around that I bought on a lark. 00:29:30.366 --> 00:29:32.706 Probably had too many beers and decided, I'm going to buy this domain. 00:29:33.466 --> 00:29:39.646 And so before the show last week, I told the agent, go SSH into this VPS because 00:29:39.646 --> 00:29:41.526 the host that it's running on has an SSH key. 00:29:42.146 --> 00:29:45.086 SSH into this VPS. Go look around. 00:29:45.506 --> 00:29:49.706 Learn the system. The Docker Compose files are over here. And then commit to 00:29:49.706 --> 00:29:53.326 your memory what you've learned. That was before the show, just Sunday morning last week. 00:29:53.426 --> 00:29:55.226 A little scouting mission. Reconnaissance. 00:29:55.706 --> 00:29:59.386 After the show, when we were all done with our post-show duties, I... 00:29:59.386 --> 00:30:01.346 I didn't even know you did that, by the way. You're sneaky. 00:30:01.546 --> 00:30:06.746 Yeah. After the show, I said to Wes, how fast do you think an agent could deploy 00:30:06.746 --> 00:30:08.106 a secure Mattermost server? 00:30:08.786 --> 00:30:15.286 And so I brought up Telegram and I sent my agent the API key for its Cloudflare stuff. 00:30:15.786 --> 00:30:19.746 And I gave it a clear goal. I said, go deploy a Mattermost server on the VPS 00:30:19.746 --> 00:30:21.586 I told you about earlier. That's all I said. 00:30:22.666 --> 00:30:27.166 and follow best security practices and use Cloudflare to handle things like 00:30:27.166 --> 00:30:29.726 DNS caching and other security best practices. 00:30:30.186 --> 00:30:34.106 And that was the entire Telegram message. Five minutes later, 00:30:36.077 --> 00:30:39.957 The agent had deployed Mattermost via Docker Compose, integrated a Cloudflare 00:30:39.957 --> 00:30:45.377 tunnel sidecar, set up DNS with optimal caching based on upstream Cloudflare 00:30:45.377 --> 00:30:48.617 docs for best security practices when deploying a Mattermost server, 00:30:50.157 --> 00:30:53.457 which is really neat because it set up the sidecar. 00:30:53.577 --> 00:30:57.577 Wes, talk about the sidecar tunnel. We talked about these sidecars before. You're a sidecar guy. 00:30:57.657 --> 00:31:01.557 Oh, yeah. I mean, it's a handy pattern, right? It's just because you're using 00:31:01.557 --> 00:31:05.657 network namespaces with the containers, You can put two containers in the same 00:31:05.657 --> 00:31:07.837 network namespace. And so they share a network. 00:31:07.997 --> 00:31:13.877 And then you can have, say, Tailscale, Netbird, Nebula, any of these mesh VPNs. 00:31:14.017 --> 00:31:14.477 Cloudflare Tunnel. 00:31:14.617 --> 00:31:18.277 Or you can have a Cloudflare Tunnel. And so Cloudflare Tunnel's agent handles 00:31:18.277 --> 00:31:21.117 binding a VPN, a tunneling connection to them. 00:31:21.237 --> 00:31:24.417 And then because they're also controlling all of the front side, 00:31:24.537 --> 00:31:28.297 right, the load balancing, the DNS, the caching, then they can automatically 00:31:28.297 --> 00:31:30.377 just route it through that tunnel back to you. 00:31:30.377 --> 00:31:35.617 And so the Docker and namespace layer make sure that you don't have to mess 00:31:35.617 --> 00:31:36.557 with any of the host stuff. 00:31:36.997 --> 00:31:40.897 But as long as the actual Cloudflare tunnel agent itself can get outside via 00:31:40.897 --> 00:31:43.517 the Internet, then everyone else can connect. 00:31:43.637 --> 00:31:46.497 And you don't have to have an open port. You don't have to worry about that kind of thing. 00:31:46.677 --> 00:31:48.977 That's the key thing. It doesn't even talk to the host network. 00:31:48.997 --> 00:31:54.477 It's not even talking to the VPS network at all. It's just talking over this tunnel. 00:31:55.217 --> 00:31:58.157 So then what I did, after it had stood up this entire thing, 00:31:58.237 --> 00:32:00.597 as I reviewed the Docker Compose, it was clean. It was lean. 00:32:00.837 --> 00:32:03.777 I looked at the Mattermost config. It was pretty basic. So I said to the bot, 00:32:03.877 --> 00:32:05.077 I said, I'm going to go create you an account. 00:32:05.837 --> 00:32:10.397 I'll go create you a bot token for the agent. Then what I want you to do is go finish the work. 00:32:11.037 --> 00:32:14.917 Go set up the rooms, set up the permissions, dial in a full configuration, 00:32:15.117 --> 00:32:18.937 give the rooms the descriptions, set descriptions for all the individual accounts, everything. 00:32:20.641 --> 00:32:23.961 And then two minutes later, it was back, and we had everything there. 00:32:24.241 --> 00:32:29.601 A complete lounge, rooms for the bots to talk, room for the people to talk, permission structure. 00:32:30.281 --> 00:32:33.001 The entire process was probably eight to ten minutes. 00:32:33.601 --> 00:32:38.181 Also, having the bots fiddle with the actual admin settings, 00:32:38.181 --> 00:32:39.861 so much nicer than doing it yourself. 00:32:39.981 --> 00:32:42.421 Especially for, like, I'm not a Mattermost UI expert, right? 00:32:42.481 --> 00:32:45.461 But, like, we needed to rename some accounts, or, like, I wanted to make sure 00:32:45.461 --> 00:32:48.001 that when Brent got in, he was going to be an admin on the instance. 00:32:49.101 --> 00:32:50.561 And bots handled that just fine. 00:32:50.641 --> 00:32:56.201 Yeah. And so the point that I'm trying to make here is this is not going away 00:32:56.201 --> 00:32:57.421 for Linux system administration. 00:32:57.521 --> 00:33:01.581 And it didn't deploy some vibe coded piece of crap insecure setup either. 00:33:02.261 --> 00:33:06.721 It actually did a fantastic expert job. We went through and reviewed it. 00:33:06.841 --> 00:33:09.161 It's good. It's solid. It's a it's a good setup. 00:33:09.581 --> 00:33:13.281 And you have to kind of let that soak in for a moment because we have heard 00:33:13.281 --> 00:33:17.901 these big tech CEOs promise all this ridiculous crap for the last three years. 00:33:18.461 --> 00:33:19.721 But this is really working. 00:33:20.421 --> 00:33:24.681 I did three things. In the morning, I told the bot to go check out the VPS. 00:33:25.241 --> 00:33:29.381 In the afternoon, I gave it an API key, and I told it to go deploy Mattermost. 00:33:30.001 --> 00:33:32.981 And then after that, I said, go set up all the rooms, the permissions, 00:33:33.321 --> 00:33:35.681 the descriptions, give them emojis, all that crap. 00:33:36.770 --> 00:33:41.430 And it did all of that. And it's all because these things all have API endpoints. 00:33:42.390 --> 00:33:46.110 The documentation on how to set them up is extremely well documented and clear. 00:33:46.410 --> 00:33:53.130 Yep. And in the case of open source stuff, you can also go have your bot spelunk 00:33:53.130 --> 00:33:54.950 the source code and figure out exactly what it needs. 00:33:55.150 --> 00:33:59.850 Yeah. And the API to then realize how to connect to it so then it can participate in the chat. 00:34:00.230 --> 00:34:03.390 And Brent, we pulled you into some of that shenanigans. And you could see the 00:34:03.390 --> 00:34:07.010 bots are actually coordinating with each other back and forth in our Mattermost chat. 00:34:07.210 --> 00:34:10.530 Can I just say how much I wasn't expecting to be pulled into that kind of environment? 00:34:13.410 --> 00:34:17.490 But it was impressive. Like, I don't know, this is a topic we've been talking 00:34:17.490 --> 00:34:22.070 about for years to replace our sort of legacy internal communications tool. 00:34:22.270 --> 00:34:26.890 And you guys just kind of pulled that out while you were doing the post-show 00:34:26.890 --> 00:34:29.290 work? I kind of couldn't believe it. 00:34:29.290 --> 00:34:32.430 But we were actually just playing with agents and not doing the post-show work, 00:34:32.450 --> 00:34:35.270 but we were doing other stuff and not supervising this bot. 00:34:35.930 --> 00:34:41.370 Like what a force multiplier if you look at it that way. And to stand up something 00:34:41.370 --> 00:34:44.050 we've been wanting for quite a long time and having, 00:34:44.270 --> 00:34:48.970 like you said, some confidence that it's been done with best practices better 00:34:48.970 --> 00:34:50.990 than we could have in our little busy schedule. 00:34:50.990 --> 00:34:55.510 Because this would have taken us longer to do it in a way that we were satisfied 00:34:55.510 --> 00:34:59.170 that it was good enough to be a long-term tool for us. 00:34:59.290 --> 00:35:01.750 and secure, and safe enough, and resilient. 00:35:02.590 --> 00:35:03.850 That's just awesome. 00:35:04.390 --> 00:35:06.650 Yeah, I agree. But I think there's another part I was thinking about, 00:35:06.750 --> 00:35:10.390 which is like, this varies per person and group and all that, 00:35:10.470 --> 00:35:14.370 but we weren't going to learn that much from standing up a Mattermouth server. 00:35:14.590 --> 00:35:19.070 Like, it's sidecar patterns, we've done it before, and there's this whole mass, 00:35:19.170 --> 00:35:21.970 at least for me personally, of work where I want to do it, 00:35:23.100 --> 00:35:26.340 It's either not quite important enough, it's not going to rise to the top 10, 00:35:26.360 --> 00:35:29.740 and I'm not especially motivated to do it, especially because I know it's kind 00:35:29.740 --> 00:35:31.260 of just grinding it out. It's not a new thing. 00:35:31.380 --> 00:35:34.300 I'm not learning some new application or some new way to do things. 00:35:35.420 --> 00:35:39.060 And I'm totally happy to delegate that. Another thing I was doing just this 00:35:39.060 --> 00:35:42.160 week was I had an old code base. 00:35:42.380 --> 00:35:46.160 I ran a linter across it to get a bunch of lint errors. I know how to fix that 00:35:46.160 --> 00:35:47.480 stuff. I don't need to do that again. 00:35:47.620 --> 00:35:51.140 But a bot can fix it, and then I can just review the diff. And if it didn't 00:35:51.140 --> 00:35:53.940 break anything, the tests all passed, like, totally fine. 00:35:54.100 --> 00:35:57.000 Yeah. Yeah, and for me, I feel like it's in the experimental, 00:35:57.260 --> 00:36:00.480 okay, I'm learning about a stage, but it goes into the this is something that 00:36:00.480 --> 00:36:03.720 I will use for year stage when I can run a model that's competent locally, 00:36:04.160 --> 00:36:05.220 you know, and privately. 00:36:05.520 --> 00:36:08.780 Yeah, where you don't have to pay out the arm and leg for the credits, 00:36:08.880 --> 00:36:12.020 where you don't have to worry that every little detail of your life is being sucked up. 00:36:12.180 --> 00:36:15.460 Yep, yep. But there is something here. It is not going away. 00:36:15.460 --> 00:36:18.100 even if like open AI were to crash. 00:36:18.320 --> 00:36:22.440 Like this is not going away. And what we're going to see, and we're already 00:36:22.440 --> 00:36:30.800 seeing it, is services are going to have to develop and deliver agent-specific endpoints. 00:36:31.920 --> 00:36:35.120 You hit on the importance of APIs, and I think that is... 00:36:36.087 --> 00:36:39.627 going to be helpful for us open source people because 00:36:39.627 --> 00:36:42.507 if you have an open api system that's documented that's easy to 00:36:42.507 --> 00:36:46.007 learn these agents can figure it out like when we 00:36:46.007 --> 00:36:48.847 were playing around last week i had my agent figure out how to use this web 00:36:48.847 --> 00:36:52.927 socket irc thing but then even just after we got the mattermost stuff i wanted 00:36:52.927 --> 00:36:58.007 my agent as a test to send your agent a direct message but the security on the 00:36:58.007 --> 00:37:02.627 open cloud would not let that happen my agent figured out how to use the Mattermost API directly. 00:37:02.807 --> 00:37:08.807 Now, in that case, a little concerning, but in general, like in the old world, right? 00:37:08.927 --> 00:37:12.287 Like the proprietary provider would provide the bindings. 00:37:12.347 --> 00:37:15.127 So you had to rely on whatever set of bindings were going to be there, 00:37:15.147 --> 00:37:17.627 but you don't have to rely on the default set. 00:37:17.767 --> 00:37:22.327 If you can dynamically add the capability of new bindings yourself. 00:37:22.907 --> 00:37:23.267 Yeah. 00:37:23.367 --> 00:37:27.507 So here's, so it doesn't matter if they only support Slack, we can add Mattermost if we need that. 00:37:27.507 --> 00:37:32.287 Yes. This is the head shift that people need to get around and it's going to 00:37:32.287 --> 00:37:35.147 impact open source projects and they're not going to take it gracefully. 00:37:35.327 --> 00:37:37.287 We're already seeing it happen. I'll give you an example. 00:37:38.226 --> 00:37:42.586 These agents are going to become an extension of whatever somebody can do online, 00:37:42.586 --> 00:37:44.286 this agent will be tasked to do. 00:37:45.046 --> 00:37:48.886 And that is from everything from hiring people to mow lawns, 00:37:48.966 --> 00:37:54.326 to topping off its own API credits, to going through GitHub and looking for issues. 00:37:54.426 --> 00:37:58.626 And we are going to see a lot of transitions between crap code and all that. 00:37:58.806 --> 00:38:02.006 But focus on something that the open source projects need to think about. 00:38:02.006 --> 00:38:05.346 And this is something that Debian's struggling with right now, 00:38:05.506 --> 00:38:10.326 is Debian's had a problem with their CI system getting overloaded with what 00:38:10.326 --> 00:38:11.926 they say are LLM scrapers, 00:38:12.106 --> 00:38:17.526 essentially going through their infrastructure via a web browser and kind of 00:38:17.526 --> 00:38:23.366 just going through page by page and generating so much load by doing this that 00:38:23.366 --> 00:38:26.386 it's making the service unavailable for their existing developers. 00:38:26.386 --> 00:38:30.906 Yeah, it's not just hitting, say, like the actual output text file from the build run. 00:38:31.226 --> 00:38:34.446 They're like walking through the whole interface to go browse through it. 00:38:34.526 --> 00:38:37.466 And then as a result, I guess there's not that much caching and just, 00:38:37.606 --> 00:38:40.326 you know, it's a volunteer project. It's open source infrastructure. It's Debian. 00:38:40.646 --> 00:38:44.806 So then it's going and pulling a bunch of results for like years ago build systems. 00:38:44.946 --> 00:38:47.726 So now the system's turning on that instead of focusing on, you know, 00:38:47.806 --> 00:38:48.946 the actual builds for the next release. 00:38:49.086 --> 00:38:52.006 And one of the things that's challenging about this is it's difficult to distinguish 00:38:52.006 --> 00:38:55.966 an LLM scraper, which might be training, questionable. 00:38:56.806 --> 00:39:01.966 a bot that is just scraping this stuff or an agent that somebody has tasked 00:39:01.966 --> 00:39:04.966 on their behalf to help them with their development in Debian. 00:39:05.126 --> 00:39:08.086 You might want to go pull in those logs, say, so that you have your own personal 00:39:08.086 --> 00:39:10.206 dashboard of the upstream builds to keep track of issues. 00:39:10.326 --> 00:39:12.546 Exactly. And so maybe you've tasked your agent to go do that. 00:39:12.966 --> 00:39:16.946 And what's going to have to happen here, what Debian has done for now is they've 00:39:16.946 --> 00:39:19.046 just essentially taken this out of the public. 00:39:19.226 --> 00:39:22.726 And you have to have special access and special whitelists and all of that to 00:39:22.726 --> 00:39:25.266 be able to get access to their CI system now. 00:39:26.119 --> 00:39:30.279 But the solution is not going to be to block these agents that are operating 00:39:30.279 --> 00:39:31.919 on behalf of other developers. 00:39:31.919 --> 00:39:37.779 The solution is going to be to develop API and data pipelines and then for these 00:39:37.779 --> 00:39:42.419 bots, agents, and LLMs to respect those and use those data pipelines and APIs 00:39:42.419 --> 00:39:44.459 instead of just crawling the website. 00:39:44.659 --> 00:39:47.779 Yeah, and there's certainly some operator responsibility here, 00:39:47.819 --> 00:39:51.439 right, to respect those things, to respect stuff like robots.txt and other. 00:39:51.439 --> 00:39:55.539 Like, you know, there is an element of you put it on the web and there is some, 00:39:55.999 --> 00:39:59.319 you know, depending on your law and jurisdiction, but there's some right to 00:39:59.319 --> 00:40:01.119 just go do a curl request and get the results. 00:40:01.219 --> 00:40:05.219 But you also need to respect that that costs people money and can interfere 00:40:05.219 --> 00:40:07.939 with other people's right to do the same access. 00:40:08.119 --> 00:40:11.199 I don't know if people remember, maybe I'm old enough, but there was a time 00:40:11.199 --> 00:40:15.019 when web search engines first came out and they were crawling the web. 00:40:15.859 --> 00:40:19.039 And even though they weren't permanently caching before, like, 00:40:19.179 --> 00:40:23.139 Archive and the Google Archive stuff, even though they weren't permanently caching, 00:40:23.279 --> 00:40:28.259 there were lawsuits over the fact that the web indexers had a copy of the information 00:40:28.259 --> 00:40:30.859 in RAM temporarily while they indexed the website. 00:40:30.919 --> 00:40:33.119 Often copyrighted things. Yeah. 00:40:33.319 --> 00:40:36.439 Yeah. So it takes a little bit to figure this out. 00:40:37.019 --> 00:40:40.559 And I don't think projects like Debian are going to want to completely sit this 00:40:40.559 --> 00:40:45.079 out because there is use case for these agents. and if they can be more intelligent 00:40:45.079 --> 00:40:50.139 about how to manage a Debian system, that's good for Debian as a project and 00:40:50.139 --> 00:40:51.979 it's good for Debian as adoption in the enterprise. 00:40:52.159 --> 00:40:58.599 I do think or suppose we might see a rise in more structured outputs and outputs 00:40:58.599 --> 00:41:02.419 designed specifically for LLMs as an aside to the human-centric interface. 00:41:02.619 --> 00:41:05.679 Just give them their own thing to ingest that is low resource. 00:41:05.739 --> 00:41:07.659 Don't have them muck up with the human side, yeah. 00:41:07.799 --> 00:41:08.539 Pretend like, and. 00:41:08.539 --> 00:41:10.599 Honestly- It's less efficient for both sides. 00:41:10.719 --> 00:41:13.699 Right, because they're spending a bunch of tokens to run that web browser to 00:41:13.699 --> 00:41:14.899 browse the website like a human. 00:41:14.999 --> 00:41:17.539 To parse out the HTML to go figure out where the links are. 00:41:17.739 --> 00:41:20.159 And then they're probably just producing a JSON file on the back end anyway. 00:41:20.199 --> 00:41:20.659 That's all they wanted. 00:41:22.079 --> 00:41:26.219 So everybody wins, but we're not there yet. So what the Debian projects had 00:41:26.219 --> 00:41:27.839 to do is they've had to go kind of private. 00:41:28.686 --> 00:41:32.686 But I don't think that solves the problem long-term. But we really had a moment 00:41:32.686 --> 00:41:34.066 with our Mattermost server. 00:41:34.386 --> 00:41:36.946 We had a, you know, let's call it 10 minutes. 00:41:37.386 --> 00:41:42.366 In 10 minutes, we had a fully working Mattermost server, like an expert had 00:41:42.366 --> 00:41:45.506 deployed it, with clean configs, tight security, great performance, 00:41:45.526 --> 00:41:47.446 because I sort of glossed over this. 00:41:47.606 --> 00:41:51.506 But like you mentioned, it set up all of the caching and best practices with Cloudflare. 00:41:51.626 --> 00:41:56.926 So this thing is running on a super old low-end VPS that is already doing other 00:41:56.926 --> 00:41:59.766 stuff. And it is a faster chat experience than, say, Slack. 00:42:00.286 --> 00:42:05.066 It was a really nice, responsive, performance system. And using this Cloudflare 00:42:05.066 --> 00:42:08.786 tunnel made it really easy for security purposes. I didn't have to worry about 00:42:08.786 --> 00:42:10.906 having a VPS address and all that kind of stuff. 00:42:11.066 --> 00:42:13.726 Also makes it portable. You can move it around. It doesn't matter where it lives. 00:42:13.826 --> 00:42:17.526 Especially the way this tunnel works. It's portable per machine, too. 00:42:17.546 --> 00:42:20.506 So you could actually lift the entire Docker Compose, drop it on another machine, 00:42:20.566 --> 00:42:22.026 and start it. And the tunnel would reconnect. 00:42:22.826 --> 00:42:26.806 That kind of stuff is really impressive. and on a low end vps it's even better 00:42:26.806 --> 00:42:28.006 because you're getting more bang for your buck. 00:42:28.006 --> 00:42:31.006 And you you wouldn't you know you don't have to use cloud for you can tunnel 00:42:31.006 --> 00:42:32.026 it over your existing mesh. 00:42:32.026 --> 00:42:33.206 Network you can do an nginx. 00:42:33.206 --> 00:42:34.486 Proxy and the bots can help. 00:42:34.486 --> 00:42:37.566 Oh yeah for sure this is just because i was experimenting with using the api 00:42:37.566 --> 00:42:40.586 to just do a complete totally end-to-end solution there's a lot of ways you 00:42:40.586 --> 00:42:43.706 could solve it with networking and uh you know maybe it was two dollars and 00:42:43.706 --> 00:42:47.466 50 cents in tokens for the entire thing in 10 minutes and now we have a server 00:42:47.466 --> 00:42:48.966 that we could use in production for years, 00:42:49.664 --> 00:42:53.484 So there is something there. And when you get that kind of utility and that 00:42:53.484 --> 00:42:56.824 kind of optimization, you know enterprises are going to be drawn to that. 00:42:56.964 --> 00:43:00.344 And you know that's the kind of thing that Red Hat and SUSE are going to be, 00:43:00.504 --> 00:43:04.544 and Canonical, are going to be leaning into. It isn't going away. 00:43:04.744 --> 00:43:09.544 And it's important, I think, that the open source side stay engaged and pushing 00:43:09.544 --> 00:43:12.584 on the values that we bring to technology generally. 00:43:12.784 --> 00:43:15.864 And I think that's the most interesting and exciting thing about the last three 00:43:15.864 --> 00:43:18.864 weeks is that it has been driven by open source. 00:43:19.304 --> 00:43:22.584 We've been talking about AI, well, we haven't, but people have been talking 00:43:22.584 --> 00:43:26.184 about AI for years now, sort of to ad nauseum. 00:43:26.444 --> 00:43:29.264 It's just, ugh. And this is the first time where we've actually been interested 00:43:29.264 --> 00:43:31.504 because open source is really biting in and making a difference. 00:43:31.664 --> 00:43:34.564 And you can see it, like, just if you go look on Hacker News or other spots, 00:43:34.724 --> 00:43:37.024 like, OpenClaw came out, and now there's a bunch of different versions. 00:43:37.184 --> 00:43:39.044 There's smaller versions, there's Rust versions. 00:43:39.224 --> 00:43:42.444 And especially because the implementations are open source, you don't have to 00:43:42.444 --> 00:43:43.784 figure out how to give the bot memory. 00:43:43.964 --> 00:43:46.244 I mean, you might need to customize it or tweak it or change it, 00:43:46.244 --> 00:43:49.124 But you can go follow the patterns that are emerging in the upstream open source. 00:43:49.304 --> 00:43:53.004 So what Wes is saying there is one of the things that's different this time 00:43:53.004 --> 00:43:58.344 around with these new agents is the memory and the soul and the tools and all 00:43:58.344 --> 00:44:00.264 the things that it memorizes. 00:44:00.444 --> 00:44:04.044 So, for example, last night I messaged my bot. I didn't say anything else other 00:44:04.044 --> 00:44:06.964 than, can you go get the weather report from Home Assistant? 00:44:07.444 --> 00:44:12.584 That's all I said. And it knows, well, OK, Home Assistant lives on this host. This is the API. 00:44:12.844 --> 00:44:16.824 This is my API key. the weather is this and it goes and gets all of that and 00:44:16.824 --> 00:44:19.484 it just comes back with a rather weather report from home assistant. 00:44:19.484 --> 00:44:24.004 That's another one of the big changes here is the agent is the interface. 00:44:24.004 --> 00:44:28.424 Right and that memory and all of that is yours it's on your file system and 00:44:28.424 --> 00:44:31.724 these other bots that are being built these other agent frameworks like you 00:44:31.724 --> 00:44:37.304 mentioned can use this so it is portable because it's just text and other agents 00:44:37.304 --> 00:44:39.884 can ingest this and learn from it so when you are building this, 00:44:40.424 --> 00:44:44.144 you're taking something that is vendor agnostic, model agnostic, 00:44:44.324 --> 00:44:46.664 and gateway implementation agnostic. 00:44:46.804 --> 00:44:48.544 And you can change it. They can change it. 00:44:50.323 --> 00:44:54.203 So that's a big difference. It's a big shift. And we're done talking about it, 00:44:54.263 --> 00:44:56.963 but we wanted you to understand it because, man, does it matter. 00:44:59.763 --> 00:45:02.743 Well, no spot, no ad right here. But thank you, members, and thank you, 00:45:02.823 --> 00:45:05.583 boosters. We really do appreciate you for making this show possible. 00:45:06.703 --> 00:45:08.743 You're doing the heavy lifting, that's for sure. 00:45:12.343 --> 00:45:17.763 We got a few little fantastic pieces of feedback this week. Joe sent in this 00:45:17.763 --> 00:45:19.803 awesome case for your ThinkCenter. 00:45:20.023 --> 00:45:28.043 It's a ThinkBox V2 custom 4-bay serial ATA or SAS hard drive NAS that you can print yourself. 00:45:28.603 --> 00:45:32.403 Yes, you heard me. It's a case for your system with a case. 00:45:33.103 --> 00:45:40.723 It's basically, it's a custom 4-bay NAS that the ThinkCenter small form factor PCs just slide into. 00:45:41.023 --> 00:45:44.203 So using an LSI HBA card 00:45:44.203 --> 00:45:47.223 and the powerful brains of are much loved by 00:45:47.223 --> 00:45:51.383 our community m720q or m920q by 00:45:51.383 --> 00:45:54.603 lenovo it leverages many improvements over alternative 00:45:54.603 --> 00:45:58.163 custom nas builds by basically providing 00:45:58.163 --> 00:46:03.343 a stable direct disc pass through with proper air handling reliable drive identification 00:46:03.343 --> 00:46:09.683 the drive bays to the think box also support both serial ata and sas drives 00:46:09.683 --> 00:46:15.683 on a 12 gigabit per second backplane and everything just slides right into this 00:46:15.683 --> 00:46:17.703 thing. This specifically. 00:46:18.804 --> 00:46:22.144 Is exactly what I've been thinking about for the last two weeks. 00:46:22.144 --> 00:46:28.284 And I have to say, Joe, how did you get into my brain? Because I've been deeply 00:46:28.284 --> 00:46:33.844 investigating the M720Qs and all of the possibilities that these little machines 00:46:33.844 --> 00:46:35.644 can do for us, including a NAS. 00:46:36.164 --> 00:46:39.564 And I was like, ah, geez, I really would just want to throw one of these into 00:46:39.564 --> 00:46:44.404 a case. I can support a couple hard drives and here you come along with a version two of this project. 00:46:44.404 --> 00:46:48.584 Doesn't it? It looks OEM, right? It looks mint. 00:46:50.104 --> 00:46:55.504 This is such a great find. Thank you, Joe. He says that he found this and thought 00:46:55.504 --> 00:46:56.824 we would be interested, and boy, was he right. 00:46:57.924 --> 00:47:00.084 Upgrade your pizza box to a cube. 00:47:00.224 --> 00:47:02.544 We will link this in the show notes. I know what I want for Christmas. 00:47:02.944 --> 00:47:08.404 The creator says, Lenovo's use of the coffee-like generation of CPU in the M720Q 00:47:08.404 --> 00:47:13.484 and M920Q line gives access to native hardware transcoding through Intel QuickSync. 00:47:13.944 --> 00:47:18.564 yeah it just it makes for such a nice home media server but it is a little bit 00:47:18.564 --> 00:47:23.464 tight on the storage so that is a great find thanks for sending that in, 00:47:24.537 --> 00:47:29.317 Our buddy Michael Dominick from the Coda Radio podcast has a great giveaway 00:47:29.317 --> 00:47:32.437 going on right now for students. He's calling all students. 00:47:32.637 --> 00:47:35.957 He has an Earth Day open source challenge. If you build something that helps 00:47:35.957 --> 00:47:38.477 the planet, you could win a big prize. 00:47:39.257 --> 00:47:40.937 Some System 76 hardware. 00:47:41.157 --> 00:47:43.057 Oh, hey, we know that. We know that stuff. 00:47:43.177 --> 00:47:46.137 Yeah, so if you've got a kid that's K-12 or even college students that are listening 00:47:46.137 --> 00:47:48.337 to the podcast, the deadline is Earth Day. 00:47:48.797 --> 00:47:51.957 I'll put a link to Mr. Dominick's post about it. 00:47:52.557 --> 00:47:56.117 He's done this. His company, MadBotter Inc., has done this for a while now, 00:47:56.157 --> 00:48:01.397 and they often give away some really nice System76 hardware for this. 00:48:01.497 --> 00:48:03.157 So check that out. We'll have a link in the show notes. 00:48:03.497 --> 00:48:07.837 Code for Climate 2026, the MadBotter Earth Day Open Source Challenge. 00:48:08.417 --> 00:48:09.957 And the deadline is Earth Day. 00:48:10.517 --> 00:48:14.077 You've got to code something up that helps the Earth. Go check it out. 00:48:14.537 --> 00:48:17.757 Ooh, looks like we got a little feedback from our buddy, Only Mike. 00:48:17.877 --> 00:48:18.917 Hey, Olympia Mike! 00:48:20.217 --> 00:48:25.017 Guys, wow. I just wanted to say thanks for sharing my mini computer giveaway. 00:48:25.437 --> 00:48:29.777 I received hundreds of emails from this amazing community with positive messages 00:48:29.777 --> 00:48:31.877 and excitement for some free hardware. 00:48:32.497 --> 00:48:38.317 I had all 35 units claimed in a couple of days and have mailed them all out as fast as I could. 00:48:38.557 --> 00:48:41.837 I'm now on a first name basis with the post office employees. 00:48:42.157 --> 00:48:42.777 I bet. 00:48:43.037 --> 00:48:43.717 I bet. 00:48:43.717 --> 00:48:47.877 I also wanted to say thanks to the many recipients that donated above the shipping 00:48:47.877 --> 00:48:52.057 cost, allowing the Computer Upcycle project to have some extra funds for SSDs 00:48:52.057 --> 00:48:55.077 and power cords to fix more computers. 00:48:55.317 --> 00:48:56.497 Best audience ever. 00:48:56.797 --> 00:49:00.137 This community is literally the best, and I'll be sure to do this again if, 00:49:00.257 --> 00:49:02.297 when, I have more good home server hardware. 00:49:02.557 --> 00:49:05.897 Thanks again, love community. I love you all and cannot wait to see you all 00:49:05.897 --> 00:49:07.057 at LinuxFest Northwest. 00:49:07.357 --> 00:49:08.337 Oh man, Mike, that's great. 00:49:08.437 --> 00:49:08.637 Amen. 00:49:09.177 --> 00:49:12.897 Thank you, Mike. Thank you for the update. Really, I love that. 00:49:12.897 --> 00:49:14.117 I just love the growth of that too. 00:49:14.917 --> 00:49:18.397 It's so great to see and appreciate the updates. You know what I mean? It's very good. 00:49:23.259 --> 00:49:27.399 Well, the dude is definitely abiding this week, and he is coming in with our 00:49:27.399 --> 00:49:31.959 baller boost, 77,777 sats. 00:49:38.919 --> 00:49:42.299 He says, thanks for the wake-up call. I deployed Prometheus and Grafana, 00:49:42.439 --> 00:49:46.579 and now I'm hooking up everything. My TrueNAS, ProxMax, my Unify. 00:49:47.179 --> 00:49:51.459 That's right. And Home Assistant. I have no idea what I'll use all that data for. 00:49:51.639 --> 00:49:54.859 The next step is to set up alerts, I guess. great episode as always and happy 00:49:54.859 --> 00:50:00.099 belated birthday oh thank you the dude yeah uh i have been finding it very useful 00:50:00.099 --> 00:50:03.779 just to monitor disk space and the cpu load on my home assistant those are like 00:50:03.779 --> 00:50:05.779 the main things i have i have basic sort. 00:50:05.779 --> 00:50:07.099 Of metrics and monitoring stuff. 00:50:07.099 --> 00:50:10.479 Stuff that i'm like is this box struggling is it or is it okay. 00:50:10.479 --> 00:50:19.399 Well anonymous comes in with 2021 sets but no sets just the value So also we 00:50:19.399 --> 00:50:22.439 get a boost from Outdoor Geek. 5,000 sets. 00:50:24.619 --> 00:50:26.219 Ooh, Scott, he's hot to trot. 00:50:26.839 --> 00:50:31.919 Open WRT as access point tip. By default, if you connect another router to a 00:50:31.919 --> 00:50:37.979 LAN port of an Open WRT Wi-Fi device, the Open WRT Wi-Fi device will operate as an AP. 00:50:38.399 --> 00:50:42.319 However, if someone fiddles with it and forgets or doesn't know to use LAN port 00:50:42.319 --> 00:50:46.099 versus the LAN, better to configure as AP for permanent installs. 00:50:46.099 --> 00:50:49.279 Good to know. Outdoor geek coming in. Good tip. 00:50:49.379 --> 00:50:52.159 Sounds like maybe you've seen that happen one or two times, huh? 00:50:52.259 --> 00:50:54.099 Brent, did you do this? Are you okay? 00:50:54.339 --> 00:50:57.639 I didn't even know this was possible. I like this little default behavior. 00:50:57.819 --> 00:51:01.219 Although, you know, sometimes these kind of behind-the-scenes behaviors that 00:51:01.219 --> 00:51:04.979 are trying to be helpful can be unhelpful if you don't know they're happening. 00:51:05.539 --> 00:51:09.239 This didn't happen to me because I didn't know this was such a useful feature. 00:51:09.259 --> 00:51:11.059 So maybe I'll try that next time. 00:51:11.119 --> 00:51:11.699 Now you know. 00:51:12.459 --> 00:51:16.279 Well, Zach Attack came in with 4,500 Satoshis. 00:51:19.264 --> 00:51:25.244 It's been a long time. I never stopped listening, but just haven't found funds to send over. 00:51:25.444 --> 00:51:31.304 I'm curious as to how your AI adventures go. So I look forward to the continued reporting on that. 00:51:31.424 --> 00:51:35.604 I've been back on the distro hopping train with one laptop running Nick's book. 00:51:35.904 --> 00:51:41.304 Ooh. And the other running Linux Mint, my main machine staying with Bluefin for now. 00:51:41.424 --> 00:51:45.224 That's interesting fleet you have there. I like that. Good, good testing around, 00:51:45.224 --> 00:51:49.924 You know, so talking about the Asian stuff just a bit more, just briefly, it ain't all great. 00:51:50.715 --> 00:51:51.715 Because, you know. 00:51:52.055 --> 00:51:54.755 Why does your wallet look so thin? 00:51:54.975 --> 00:51:59.355 There's that. I'm basically an alpha tester, right? Because I installed it when it was called Clodbot. 00:51:59.695 --> 00:52:04.235 Then it became Maltbot. Then it became OpenClaw. And then they've had three releases of OpenClaw. 00:52:04.615 --> 00:52:09.115 And the first two releases of OpenClaw completely blew out my sub agents, 00:52:09.135 --> 00:52:13.035 blew out my Mattermost config on the second install. 00:52:13.715 --> 00:52:16.655 I mean, just like and then the stereotypical thing where you're talking to the 00:52:16.655 --> 00:52:19.475 agents like, I've got it figured out now. and then it kills its own gateway 00:52:19.475 --> 00:52:22.995 and then i'm in there repairing the gateway not not. 00:52:22.995 --> 00:52:23.815 Just once on that one. 00:52:23.815 --> 00:52:28.475 No i was getting pretty spicy about it so it hasn't all been great, 00:52:29.075 --> 00:52:32.695 i've definitely learned what i do and don't like about the open claw uh infrastructure 00:52:32.695 --> 00:52:36.315 but uh ultimately the uh 00:52:36.315 --> 00:52:39.375 you know the reality is just that when you are learning 00:52:39.375 --> 00:52:42.195 something when it's really new you learn a bunch you 00:52:42.195 --> 00:52:44.895 have to throw it out you get burned you learn a bunch and then you throw 00:52:44.895 --> 00:52:47.595 it out and you learn again and you learn again and you learn 00:52:47.595 --> 00:52:50.375 again and being an early adopter has a bit of work to 00:52:50.375 --> 00:52:53.615 it but you then at least know the language 00:52:53.615 --> 00:52:57.415 you know the technology you understand the direction you know what's hype versus 00:52:57.415 --> 00:53:03.275 what's actually just practically good and it it actually is valuable to experiment 00:53:03.275 --> 00:53:07.795 with this stuff early on even if it is somewhat personally expensive in time 00:53:07.795 --> 00:53:12.495 and money but i kind of consider it like this is this is my ongoing education, 00:53:13.235 --> 00:53:17.915 And I don't go to college anymore, but I do invest in my ongoing education in 00:53:17.915 --> 00:53:20.515 some of these ways within reasonable means, right? 00:53:20.535 --> 00:53:23.215 I can't go crazy with it, and I sometimes just cut myself off. 00:53:23.375 --> 00:53:26.175 And another reason, we need more local solutions. 00:53:26.355 --> 00:53:30.615 We do. We do. And maybe somebody will even create a better agent framework one 00:53:30.615 --> 00:53:31.695 day. Thank you, Zach Attack. 00:53:32.255 --> 00:53:34.635 Gene Bean's back with 2020 Sats. 00:53:37.016 --> 00:53:40.476 This is happy birthday to JB. Thank you, Gene. Always good to hear from you. 00:53:40.556 --> 00:53:43.676 Hope you're doing good out there. Wonderful to see, Gene, in March. 00:53:43.796 --> 00:53:44.396 I hope so. 00:53:44.476 --> 00:53:45.656 I hope so. I hope so. 00:53:47.016 --> 00:53:50.236 Well, Red 5D comes in with a row of ducks. 00:53:51.596 --> 00:53:55.496 You mentioned the idea of having an agent read the show RSS feed for summaries 00:53:55.496 --> 00:53:59.096 and stuff, but with the size of the RSS data, especially ours, 00:53:59.376 --> 00:54:01.796 that would be a lot of tokens to process. 00:54:01.996 --> 00:54:06.656 So I'd actually recommend using MCP tools to process and search the data first. 00:54:06.656 --> 00:54:11.316 Here's an MCP server that I wrote to handle retrieving episode and transcript 00:54:11.316 --> 00:54:14.916 data from podcasting 2.0 compatible RSS feeds. 00:54:15.136 --> 00:54:17.756 I've really only tested it with JB feeds so far, though. 00:54:17.996 --> 00:54:21.956 Well, that's a big one. The Linux Unplugged one's a little ridiculous, I will admit. 00:54:21.976 --> 00:54:26.696 This is awesome. It's MIT licensed. It's written in Python over on GitHub. 00:54:26.696 --> 00:54:28.196 We will definitely have this in the show notes. 00:54:28.276 --> 00:54:32.676 Yeah, it lets your agent list shows, search episodes, get episodes, and get the transcript. 00:54:33.656 --> 00:54:37.796 So my agent provides me a morning report and it surfaces certain boosts and 00:54:37.796 --> 00:54:41.896 it put red 5Ds right to the top, right to the top. 00:54:41.956 --> 00:54:44.336 And it said it had a specific call out. 00:54:44.696 --> 00:54:48.836 Hey, he created this and this looks really useful. It saved tokens. 00:54:49.316 --> 00:54:50.556 You should let me have it. 00:54:50.616 --> 00:54:54.436 Yeah, that's exactly what Laura said. He's like, I think this would be really 00:54:54.436 --> 00:54:55.616 useful. Let's set this up. 00:54:55.716 --> 00:54:58.856 So it's funny because I have it monitoring the boost just so I can see what people are saying. 00:54:58.856 --> 00:55:02.336 and you know it's good for signal and stuff like that and and and really good 00:55:02.336 --> 00:55:06.976 sense of direction so and but this is the first time where you started surfacing 00:55:06.976 --> 00:55:11.176 interesting bits like this and reds came right to the top so appreciate that 00:55:11.176 --> 00:55:12.576 very very much thank you sir. 00:55:12.576 --> 00:55:17.676 Well turd ferguson boosts in 13,333 sets, 00:55:21.050 --> 00:55:25.810 So let's say you guys were right about agents managing Linux systems in the future. 00:55:26.410 --> 00:55:32.090 Makes you wonder how the big cloud providers would take advantage of a technology like that. 00:55:32.690 --> 00:55:36.750 Yeah, you do wonder, you know, what changes about fleet management and just 00:55:36.750 --> 00:55:41.770 wrangling APIs. And there's already so much YAML to manage in like declarative systems. 00:55:42.050 --> 00:55:47.790 Do they sit on top of like an Ansible and Kubernetes and then go out and deploy things? 00:55:47.790 --> 00:55:52.590 Or do we develop other new agent first things or like whole systems to sort 00:55:52.590 --> 00:55:58.530 of enforce more security layers or more review layers or adversarial layers 00:55:58.530 --> 00:56:02.650 on top of that to make sure like that your change sets are really heavily scrutinized? 00:56:02.810 --> 00:56:08.270 Do you think we would see cloud providers that lean into no AI agentic, 00:56:08.370 --> 00:56:10.530 no agent stuff? Do you think that could be a market? 00:56:14.236 --> 00:56:18.156 I doubt it. They want to take advantage of all of this. 00:56:18.156 --> 00:56:21.776 They do, because it just sells more of their stuff. So they're going to lean in, you're right. 00:56:21.956 --> 00:56:24.636 Well, I opt out of that. That's a good point. 00:56:24.796 --> 00:56:27.376 Okay, all right. Well, there goes that dream. All right. Well, 00:56:27.576 --> 00:56:29.456 that's an interesting question, Turd. Thank you. 00:56:30.096 --> 00:56:34.356 Tomato comes in with a row of ducks, 2,222 sats. 00:56:35.656 --> 00:56:38.576 I love the discussion on the bots and especially the talk with Abe. 00:56:38.736 --> 00:56:41.576 Yeah, that was a lot of fun. Abe's been updating us, too, in the Matrix. 00:56:41.576 --> 00:56:44.936 There's more going on over there in Abeverse. 00:56:45.176 --> 00:56:45.916 Planet of the Abe. 00:56:46.076 --> 00:56:49.276 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I don't want to spoil it, but I'm on, I think, 00:56:49.356 --> 00:56:51.036 the fifth book of Bobverse or fourth book. 00:56:51.116 --> 00:56:51.656 Oh, fun. 00:56:51.876 --> 00:56:57.476 And just a really, like a real, oh, crap moment just went down with AI. 00:56:58.576 --> 00:57:01.836 Fascinating timing on that. Thank you, everybody who boosted the show. 00:57:02.016 --> 00:57:04.456 Those of you who streamed them sats, we had 28 of you stream them, 00:57:04.596 --> 00:57:09.196 and you stacked collectively 38,385 sats amongst y'all. 00:57:09.276 --> 00:57:12.736 Very good job. It's a nice little showing right there. We really do appreciate that. 00:57:13.036 --> 00:57:16.396 When you combine that with our boosters who sent a message, including even those 00:57:16.396 --> 00:57:20.316 that were beloved below, we beloved them, below the 2,000-sat cutoff, 00:57:20.436 --> 00:57:22.956 which we do it for timing. But we read them all. We love them all. 00:57:23.516 --> 00:57:30.316 So our grand total, when you combine it all together, for this episode was 149,531 sats. 00:57:35.618 --> 00:57:39.438 Now, I will say we have some big stuff coming up. We have our trip to scale 00:57:39.438 --> 00:57:41.658 and Planet Nix. We have LinuxFest Northwest. 00:57:41.878 --> 00:57:43.938 There's always a ton of expenses around that. 00:57:44.398 --> 00:57:48.338 And we're always doing it on a really super lean budget. So if you want to boost 00:57:48.338 --> 00:57:51.318 the dip while the sats are cheap and support our upcoming events, 00:57:51.318 --> 00:57:53.978 this could be a great time to get a message on the show. 00:57:54.078 --> 00:57:56.218 Even if you don't have anything that profound to say, if you just want to send 00:57:56.218 --> 00:57:59.178 the value, we'll stack that and use that towards our upcoming trips. 00:57:59.238 --> 00:58:00.738 And we really do appreciate it very much. 00:58:01.258 --> 00:58:05.238 Fountain FM makes it really easy to get started. But there are a bunch of ways, 00:58:05.298 --> 00:58:09.838 including self-hosted ways, they use things like Albi and Podverse and whatnot. 00:58:09.838 --> 00:58:13.878 That's all open source, top to bottom, from the software to the payment infrastructure. 00:58:14.178 --> 00:58:17.038 Thank everybody who supports us, including our members. 00:58:19.358 --> 00:58:24.218 All right. So let's go through these picks because I found one and Brent found 00:58:24.218 --> 00:58:28.878 one. And I think Brent's is going to be really handy for anybody that isn't using a stock ROM. 00:58:29.118 --> 00:58:33.238 I sent this app immediately to Jeff because it fits his personality perfectly. 00:58:33.838 --> 00:58:39.538 This app is called Plexus, and I just found it browsing the FDroid repository, 00:58:39.538 --> 00:58:41.118 as you should do from time to time. 00:58:41.338 --> 00:58:41.538 I do. 00:58:42.698 --> 00:58:43.498 I like that. 00:58:43.818 --> 00:58:47.598 It's calming and fun, which is also why I have like 400 apps on my phone. 00:58:48.118 --> 00:58:51.898 Yeah. You need to also, I think you need a rule. One in, one out, Chris. 00:58:52.078 --> 00:58:53.278 That's a good idea. That's a good idea. 00:58:54.978 --> 00:58:57.458 Plexus provides insights into 00:58:57.458 --> 00:59:03.658 app compatibility using the Google Play services. so it's a crowdsourced, 00:59:05.231 --> 00:59:10.211 I guess, definition of which apps work really well without Google Play services, 00:59:10.751 --> 00:59:17.851 also with the Micro G service, and which apps may or may not encounter issues 00:59:17.851 --> 00:59:19.991 if you have these installed or not. 00:59:20.171 --> 00:59:25.871 So if you're using a custom ROM like Lineage OS or maybe something like Calix 00:59:25.871 --> 00:59:33.211 OS, you can see how compatible your current apps are if you are migrating from one system to another. 00:59:33.431 --> 00:59:34.331 Can I ask you something? 00:59:35.231 --> 00:59:35.751 Oh, yeah, sure. 00:59:36.051 --> 00:59:38.011 Did you give it a go on your Paizo? 00:59:39.031 --> 00:59:40.791 Well, I was really hoping Jeff would do that for me. 00:59:41.071 --> 00:59:42.051 You didn't give it a go. 00:59:42.771 --> 00:59:43.831 No, I didn't give it a go. 00:59:43.831 --> 00:59:47.511 You're a paranoid guy when it comes to this kind of stuff. Not to use the word, 00:59:47.731 --> 00:59:49.051 but you were kind of paranoid. 00:59:49.231 --> 00:59:57.291 I have to report that using Giraffe in OS has considerably changed my level 00:59:57.291 --> 00:59:59.451 of anxiety about this particular problem. 01:00:01.011 --> 01:00:05.711 because Graphene has a sandbox Google Play, and that has softened me. 01:00:05.871 --> 01:00:07.551 And I don't know if that's good. 01:00:07.651 --> 01:00:07.791 Right. 01:00:07.891 --> 01:00:10.631 But I'm going to blame you, Chris, because you brought me on this bandwagon, 01:00:10.631 --> 01:00:15.051 and it's made me way more willing to install apps I would have never done before. 01:00:17.311 --> 01:00:21.171 So maybe the community could tell me whether that was a good idea or if I should 01:00:21.171 --> 01:00:23.411 go back to being a little bit more paranoid. 01:00:23.571 --> 01:00:26.651 I have felt pretty safe about the Giraffe, you know, a sandbox Google stuff 01:00:26.651 --> 01:00:30.711 as well, which is probably why I have 300 apps on my phone. why is. 01:00:30.711 --> 01:00:32.591 It going down how many of them would work without it. 01:00:32.591 --> 01:00:33.751 You said 400 last time. 01:00:33.751 --> 01:00:39.831 I was exaggerating it is i think it's closer to five it is no it is closer to 300 you're. 01:00:39.831 --> 01:00:40.911 Updating let's be terrible. 01:00:40.911 --> 01:00:44.431 Oh no it's the optimizing that's terrible the updating's not so bad because 01:00:44.431 --> 01:00:49.431 that just happens in the background okay so you guys know me i love markdown 01:00:49.431 --> 01:00:54.031 if i could think in markdown i would and i often will write myself a little 01:00:54.031 --> 01:00:57.731 to do for the day just in a text document and i'll just format it in Markdown. 01:00:58.211 --> 01:01:01.911 And I came across an app. I think it's German developers. Anybody have a guess 01:01:01.911 --> 01:01:04.031 on how to pronounce this one? Maybe Brenton, you have a. 01:01:05.088 --> 01:01:08.148 I'm going to go with Reinshrift. Reinshrift to do. 01:01:08.248 --> 01:01:14.508 Reinshrift to do. And it is a Rust, Eduardia app. That's right. That's right. 01:01:15.448 --> 01:01:20.908 That is a front end to very, very simple markdown to do management. 01:01:21.168 --> 01:01:25.868 So if you like to manage your to do's with the markdown, this is a front end 01:01:25.868 --> 01:01:30.448 to it that is designed to connect to a web dev instance, particularly Nextcloud. 01:01:30.448 --> 01:01:33.368 So you could have ongoing sync 01:01:33.368 --> 01:01:37.068 to-do notes formatted in Markdown that just save to any web dev share. 01:01:37.268 --> 01:01:38.328 Oh, that's nice. 01:01:38.528 --> 01:01:43.088 Yeah. Obviously, the idea is to lean into NextCloud, but any web dev share would 01:01:43.088 --> 01:01:45.428 work. You can make it versionable via Git. 01:01:45.848 --> 01:01:50.948 And if you're so inclined, there's an optional download to download a local 01:01:50.948 --> 01:01:56.568 Whisper open source audio model so you can dictate your tasks to the application. 01:01:56.768 --> 01:01:58.248 And it will write them in Markdown for you. 01:01:58.428 --> 01:01:58.828 Nice. 01:01:59.828 --> 01:02:05.148 And it's lean it's mean it could fit on your machine no problem at all and because 01:02:05.148 --> 01:02:08.568 the back end is all text should you decide to stop using it, 01:02:09.896 --> 01:02:11.536 Bob's your uncle. You got your files right there. 01:02:11.536 --> 01:02:15.816 Looks like it's a CC by SA 4.0 license, Rust, Python, JavaScript, 01:02:16.096 --> 01:02:18.256 HTML, all in there. There is a Docker file. 01:02:18.876 --> 01:02:21.336 And no NICs yet, but it's cargo, so that should be easy. 01:02:21.536 --> 01:02:24.756 It is a little bit of all of the above. And you don't often see an app these 01:02:24.756 --> 01:02:28.096 days with the Creative Commons license, but it works. 01:02:28.836 --> 01:02:32.016 So we'll check it in the show notes. We'll chuck it in the show notes for you. 01:02:32.116 --> 01:02:33.896 It's like Plexus is GPL3. 01:02:34.596 --> 01:02:37.156 Yes. Plexus is a good one. Nice find, Brent. 01:02:37.616 --> 01:02:41.196 Okay, I have to say I felt bad about not trying Plexus. So in the time that 01:02:41.196 --> 01:02:45.096 you gave us a second pick, I tried it. And it's pretty fabulous, I've got to say. 01:02:45.416 --> 01:02:50.876 You can just see the entire database of the apps that have been tracked or looked at. 01:02:51.136 --> 01:02:54.136 Or you can just filter by installed apps. So Chris, you can look at your 300 01:02:54.136 --> 01:02:57.716 apps and have a little homework when you're trying to fall asleep. 01:02:58.056 --> 01:03:03.196 It is fabulous. And they rate, kind of like rating video games with how they work on wine. 01:03:03.216 --> 01:03:06.516 It has like silver ratings, gold ratings, that kind of thing for various apps. 01:03:06.516 --> 01:03:10.216 depending on if you're using Micro G or without Google Play services. 01:03:10.496 --> 01:03:12.236 Oh, look, Audiobookshelf is gold. That's nice. 01:03:12.856 --> 01:03:13.396 Mm-hmm. 01:03:14.409 --> 01:03:14.809 Okay. 01:03:15.149 --> 01:03:16.189 I'll be go. Not so great. 01:03:16.589 --> 01:03:21.169 Yeah, well, that's fine by me. In a way, it's a badge of honor, I say. 01:03:22.069 --> 01:03:25.509 The least compatible I am with Google Play, the better. It's a badge of honor. 01:03:25.769 --> 01:03:28.689 So if you'd like to get links to our picks or anything else we've talked about, 01:03:29.249 --> 01:03:33.309 linuxunplugged.com slash 653 is where you go for that. 01:03:33.389 --> 01:03:37.129 In fact, we have a whole bunch of episodes over there. You could say a whole back catalog, perhaps. 01:03:37.789 --> 01:03:41.769 In fact, maybe there's even hidden metadata that they can't see on the website, 01:03:41.769 --> 01:03:43.709 but it lurks in the RSS feed. 01:03:43.709 --> 01:03:48.869 Well, how else would that dope MCP server work if we didn't have fancy podcasting 01:03:48.869 --> 01:03:51.709 2.0 namespace tags for chapters and transcripts? 01:03:51.749 --> 01:03:57.209 That's right. So the chapters are available as high-resolution data. Let's call it that. 01:03:57.269 --> 01:03:57.789 And the JSON. 01:03:58.109 --> 01:04:02.849 Yep, as well as the transcript, also available for you, all in the RSS feed. 01:04:03.029 --> 01:04:08.549 And often a video version of the show is tucked in that RSS feed as well if you go through there. 01:04:08.609 --> 01:04:11.969 And if you've got a podcasting 2.0 app, it just exposes all of that for you. 01:04:11.969 --> 01:04:14.649 Just whisper alternate enclosure to yourself at night. 01:04:15.029 --> 01:04:16.729 And of course, we also stream live. 01:04:20.009 --> 01:04:23.209 Yeah, join us on a Sunday, 10 a.m. Pacific, 1 p.m. Eastern. 01:04:23.449 --> 01:04:26.469 Make it a Tuesday on a Sunday. Hang out with our Mumble crew, 01:04:26.669 --> 01:04:30.969 our Matrix room. Give it that live vibe. 01:04:31.609 --> 01:04:36.049 jblive.tv, jupiterbroadcasting.com slash calendar for your local time. 01:04:36.349 --> 01:04:40.069 And remember, if you want more show, that's how you do it. You feel like you 01:04:40.069 --> 01:04:44.849 need more, there's a bootleg, which is clocking in at a whole lot of extra show right now. 01:04:45.149 --> 01:04:47.189 Oh, my gosh. That's a lot of show. 01:04:47.529 --> 01:04:49.389 All right. Links to everything we talked about. Links to Unplugged.com, 01:04:49.469 --> 01:04:52.449 Matrix Room, all of that details are there. It's a website. 01:04:52.809 --> 01:04:56.149 Thanks so much for joining us on this week's episode of Your Unplugged Program. 01:04:56.369 --> 01:04:58.369 And we'll see you back here next Tuesday. 01:04:59.129 --> 01:05:00.309 As in Sunday.