Wes: My name is Wes. this.
Wes: Thanks for being here.
Chris: Hello, friends, and welcome back to your weekly Linux talk show. My name is Chris.
Brent: And my name is Brent.
Chris: Hello, gentlemen. Today we'll talk about Linus grumbling through 20 years of
Chris: Git, a hardware window that may be opening up for Linux, and a look at App 3.0.
Chris: Then we'll round it out with a really useful pick, some great boosts, and a lot more.
Chris: So before we get into all of that, let's say time-appropriate greetings to our
Chris: virtual lug. Hello, Mumble Room.
Mumble: Hello, Simon. Hello, Brent.
Chris: Hello, y'all. Nice to see you up there, and hello, everybody up there in the
Chris: quiet listening that's just quietly saying hello this morning.
Chris: I see some old friends up there. It's nice to see you. The Mumble Room is open
Chris: for every show, and it gives it kind of like this live vibe.
Chris: Like what's really happening now and eventually it makes us have to start the
Chris: show too. So there's that as well.
Chris: Details at jupiterbroadcasting.com slash mumble.
Chris: And a big good morning to our friends over at TailScale. Head over to TailScale.com
Chris: slash unplugged and get it for free up to 100 devices and three users.
Chris: TailScale is the easiest way to connect devices and services to each other wherever
Chris: they are. They solve the problem of networking. The internet never quite got there.
Chris: TailScale is modern networking that builds a flat mesh network protected by...
Wes: Why do you got to keep saying that?
Chris: You put your nodes on there, it doesn't matter if they're in multiple different
Chris: VPS providers or if they're on your homeland or if it's a mobile device,
Chris: Tailscale brings them all together secure, and it is really fast.
Chris: It's privacy for individuals and every organization out there.
Chris: Intuitive and easy to deploy, and the great thing is, with 100 devices and three
Chris: users, when you go to tailscale.com slash unplugged, you get a genuine sense of the service.
Chris: And when you're ready, you might suggest it to your buddies at work.
Chris: I mean, that's kind of what we did. We started on our personal plans,
Chris: and we expanded to using it here at Jupyter Broadcasting.
Chris: Thousands of companies out there now use Tailscale the same way.
Chris: So go try it out for yourself or for a business.
Chris: See why we love it so much. Go to Tailscale.com slash unplugged.
Chris: And by the way, special little PSA for you. Tailscale has a meetup coming in May, and it's May 8th.
Chris: We'll have a link in the show notes. It's one of their first community meetups,
Chris: and it's right here in Seattle.
Chris: We may even have a guest speaker of our own there at the meetup, perhaps.
Chris: It should be a lot of fun. Mm-hmm. So if you're in the Seattle area and you
Chris: want to go to one of their first Tailscale community meetups,
Chris: check out the link and support the show by going to tailscale.com slash unplugged.
Chris: One little bit of housekeeping before we get going.
Chris: We're kind of on the fence about doing a Saturday live stream,
Chris: the first full day of LinuxFest.
Chris: I put out a poll last week, and it hasn't gotten very many votes.
Chris: It's 60% yes, but 40% nay.
Chris: It's a little close for the amount of work we're going to be putting in.
Chris: So send us a boost or go vote in the poll and let us know if you'd like a live
Chris: stream from LinuxFest the day, Saturday, before our Sunday show.
Chris: We're thinking about doing a little different this year if we do this we've
Chris: always done it at a booth before at linux fest and we're kind of thinking maybe
Chris: this year the live stream will actually be anchored from lady joops the rv on the parking lot do.
Wes: Things in the wrong order right.
Chris: Some advantages to that you know it means we have a little more control over
Chris: the technical and the audio and the internet and based on prior tests we think
Chris: it makes for a better live stream and then what we do is along with our commentary
Chris: of the event what's going on chatting with guests, inviting people out to come out to us.
Chris: We send a couple of men in on the scene like a, you know, like a Brent Noah
Chris: tag team or a me and you tag team.
Chris: And we go out there and we interview folks and presenters in the booth and we
Chris: stream that back to the live stream.
Chris: And if we can, big caveat there, but if we can stream select audio talk as well.
Chris: So that's kind of our ambitious plans if we do a Saturday stream,
Chris: but we only want to do it if you're going to listen.
Chris: So boost in or go vote in the poll we have in the show notes.
Chris: It's a straw poll. It's real easy.
Chris: And let us know if you would tune in Saturday, which is going to be April 20, no, 26th, right?
Chris: April 26 on a Saturday. That's, woo.
Chris: It's coming up real fast. So please let us know.
Chris: Some big, big milestones recently, and one of them was Git turning 20 years
Chris: old, of course, created by Linus Torvalds.
Chris: And to celebrate, GitHub did an interview with Linus, which is kind of interesting
Chris: because Linus hasn't always been the biggest GitHub fan. He's obviously a big Git fan.
Chris: But they have a kind of a wide-ranging interview. I don't know if either of
Chris: you had a chance to read it, but it wasn't, I think, anything too new that we didn't already know.
Chris: Linus is always so humble about his participation in Git.
Chris: Yes, yes, yes.
Chris: Yeah, in the interview, he talks about basically all the Git functionality he
Chris: needed was there in a few months.
Chris: And then it was just everybody kind of adding what they needed.
Chris: So that was interesting. And then, like you said, he had a video interview with GitHub.
Chris: And so the text interview is with GitLab, to make this clear.
Chris: The video interview is with GitHub.
Chris: And the title was Two Decades of Git, a Conversation with Creator Linus Torvalds.
Chris: And we'll link to the full video in the show notes. It's, I don't know, about a half hour.
Chris: And first of all, it's nice just to see Linus outside the LinuxCon conference
Chris: Dirk-style interview scene. It's been a while since we've seen anything but that.
Chris: And one of the things they touch on at the end of the interview is,
Chris: what is the next big success for Linus?
Chris: He seems to have a cadence of every 20 years or so, he has these major projects
Chris: that he releases that change the world, like the Linux kernel and like Git.
Chris: And you can tell Linus hates this question, and I thought his answer was fascinating.
Clip: On schedule, Linux came about 34 years ago.
Clip: Yeah, Git 20.
Wes: Which involves maybe the worst CAPTCHA system ever devised.
Clip: And so maybe five or so years overdue for the next big thing. No, no.
Clip: I see the other way around. All the projects that I've had to make, I had to make because...
Wes: Yeah, and if you don't want it, it's better because you can quit when you're bored.
Clip: I couldn't find anything better that somebody else did. But I much prefer other
Clip: people solving my problems for me, right?
Clip: So me having to come up with a project is actually a failure of the world,
Clip: right? And the world just hasn't failed in the last 20 years for me.
Clip: I started doing Linux because I needed an operating system.
Wes: Will you say it like that? It almost sounds like it shouldn't work.
Wes: And yet this was like a super ultimately reliable method to have it work.
Clip: Well, no longer my DiveWard software. But that was so specialized that it never took off in a big way.
Clip: And that solved one particular problem. but my computer use is actually so limited
Clip: that I think I've solved all the problems.
Clip: Part of it is probably I've been doing it so long that I can only do things in certain ways.
Clip: I'm still using the same editor that I used when I was in college because my
Clip: fingers have learned one thing and there's no going back. And I know the editor is crap.
Clip: And I maintain it because it's a dead project that nobody else uses.
Clip: So I have a source tree and I compile my own version every time I install a new machine.
Clip: And I would suggest nobody ever use that editor. But I can't.
Clip: I've tried. I've tried multiple times finding an editor that is more modern
Clip: and does fancy things like colorize my source code and do things like that.
Clip: And every time I try it, I'm like, yeah, these, these hands are too old for this.
Clip: Right. So, so I really hope there is no project that comes along that makes me go, I have to do this.
Clip: Yeah. Well, on that note.
Chris: There's a couple of things in there that stood out to me that,
Chris: you know, he really only has to build something when the world hasn't solved that problem for him.
Chris: And so it's kind of a good thing if, you know, he hasn't had to build anything. Yeah, right. Right.
Wes: Not only did we have to get Brent with the game installed, we had to teach Brent
Wes: how to play. Mostly, me too.
Chris: Yeah. And then the other thing that jumped out to me in there is that he said
Chris: he has this horrible, horrible text editor that he uses.
Chris: Yeah. Yeah, it's a very...
Wes: Oh my god you,
Wes: i will say i hope i hope this was um satisfying for producer jeff uh because
Wes: he has been trying to get us to play some StarCraft for way too long,
Wes: so it's on us for taking so long.
Chris: You gave it a go.
Wes: He rightfully pointed out at one point that, you know, Brent,
Wes: if you'd listened to him earlier, you would have been upskilled on StarCraft.
Chris: So you whoa really that's a whole new kind of trapped in the editor.
Wes: It is actually pretty legit a great little hack for live presentations.
Chris: What a mind what a mind job it is that one of the most advanced important software
Chris: projects in the world is being run by that editor,
Chris: Brent, 20 years into Git, it feels like Git, and especially GitHub,
Chris: are such monumental successes that they're just fully integrated into most of
Chris: the open source world now.
Brent: I mean, when's the last time you worked on a project that wasn't using Git?
Brent: Like, everybody's using it, it seems. Although I did find it interesting to
Brent: look at a little bit of the history of version control, and it seems like every
Brent: decade, decade and a half, there's a new one that comes around.
Brent: Maybe Git's the exception of that because it's just integrated so deeply into
Brent: every project, it seems, these days.
Brent: But who knows? Maybe there's an opportunity here. I mean, I think,
Brent: is there a reason to come up with something else?
Brent: And a lot of people, when I was learning Git, said, yeah, yeah.
Wes: On a fastest map.
Brent: Can be better. And there are other projects, like Mercurial,
Brent: for instance, that are trying to do things better.
Chris: But you'd have to be so much better, right? I think the quintessential question
Chris: is, could you have a Git scale success today?
Chris: In 2028 or by 2030, could something else come along that could be the scale
Chris: of GitHub with Git behind it?
Chris: I don't think we can ever see that again.
Wes: Yeah, you were really keyed in on building the society, which was kind of fun.
Wes: There's a lot to build. I just...
Chris: I think it's the one-two combo of you can start your life with Git.
Chris: You can never be bothered with the cloud or any kind of a remote service.
Chris: You can just use Git on your laptop.
Chris: And then one day you start working with a project that's on GitHub,
Chris: and a lot of those skill sets just immediately translate.
Chris: And that is such a powerful network effect. And that's one of the things we
Chris: see in technology over and over again is the network effect is the item we don't
Chris: really account for that just seems to be entrenchable.
Chris: And I don't know, the more I think about it, I don't think you could have a
Chris: Git and GitHub combo success story today. I don't think it's possible.
Chris: Boost in and tell us what you think out there or what else it might be.
Chris: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So even on its own.
Brent: But I was looking at the Git repo, and they have 1,750 contributors,
Brent: so on a bit of a different scale these days.
Chris: Yeah, I suppose so. Something else is on a different scale.
Chris: Apt, Debian Apt 3.0 stable has been released, which means we should see it in
Chris: Debian 13 and Ubuntu 2504.
Chris: And Apt 3.0 is one that actually is getting a bit of attention because it has
Chris: a significantly refined command line interface, they say.
Chris: A completely new package solver, and rather noticeable UI enhancements,
Chris: including colorized text, a new layout style, and just a clearer formatting
Chris: overall of the results, making it, I guess they say, easier to understand.
Chris: And I guess at a technical level, they've upgraded Solver 3,
Chris: which is a fully new backtracking system that avoids promoting manually installed
Chris: packages for removal and handles the auto-removal more aggressively.
Chris: So, Wes, you spelunked into App 3.0. yeah that's,
Chris: Yeah. Oh, good. Yeah, really.
Wes: Brent's a survivor.
Chris: Oh, that's good to hear, yeah.
Chris: So, but the thing I keep hearing about is this new colored output,
Chris: this new columnar display or whatever they call it. Did you notice that kind of stuff?
Chris: Yes.
Chris: I hate to say this, but I bet that kind of thing had it been in place when Linus
Chris: NumNuts was testing Pop!
Chris: OS and he uninstalled his entire desktop, and then he basically slammed the
Chris: distribution for him being the one to uninstall stuff.
Chris: If it had been in big red text jumping out at him, he might have been more inclined to catch it.
Chris: You,
Chris: You could search, maybe. Hmm, yeah, I installed this when we were monkey-ing around with XYZ.
Brent: It reminds me of get commit comments just to tie the story, two stories together,
Brent: which actually are super helpful when you go back a month, a year,
Brent: five years, and you're like, what did I do again?
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Brent: Timothy R. Butler over at Open for Business recently wrote a post titled,
Brent: Apple Needs a Snow Sequoia.
Brent: In non-Mac speak, that is to say, Apple needs an upgrade to macOS Sequoia that's
Brent: like its earlier Snow Leopard upgrade to the Leopard OS.
Brent: An upgrade that's all about how little it added and how much it's focused on fixing things.
Chris: This is a call you hear in the Mac community every few years.
Chris: Apple, stop adding features and just fix things.
Chris: Apple has been transitioning toolkits and architectures basically since the iPhone launched.
Chris: And so it has kind of led to certain apps getting restarted,
Chris: recreated, or getting updates maybe that are meant to work on multiple platform
Chris: types that are not ideal for macOS.
Chris: And there has been this growing chorus of concerns about the quality of Mac software.
Chris: And Timothy's article here, his first one, was it just took off like crazy in
Chris: the Mac community. and it was really just criticizing the quality of Mac software
Chris: and saying that Apple needs to do a better job.
Chris: The funny thing is, is he came up with a follow-up while that was still getting
Chris: rolling, saying, I want a better Mac, so I'm cheering for better Linux.
Chris: And it says, like, by the way, what about Linux, Mac users? Gotcha.
Chris: And as you can imagine, that also generated quite a bit of controversy.
Chris: He says that my recent column on Apple's declining software quality seems to have hit a nerve.
Chris: So why do any of us put up with software that grows increasingly buggy?
Chris: One word, he says, hardware. And that's where I'd love to see someone help Linux take the next step.
Chris: Apple knows how to turn out very good quality pieces of hardware.
Chris: And he goes on about how much he likes their hardware. He says,
Chris: for Apple aficionados troubled by the state of macOS,
Chris: the modern GNOME desktop on Linux beckons as a more faithful implementation
Chris: of the ideals of macOS than the current Mac does. I'm going to pause there.
Chris: I believe I was making that point a couple of weeks ago when we were talking
Chris: about the new GNOME release.
Chris: I think there is something to it. It's not exact. I don't completely agree,
Chris: and I'll get to where I disagree.
Chris: But he says, GNOME painstakingly is consistent across the different apps and
Chris: exudes the minimalist philosophy which Apple's hardware shines.
Chris: Now is a perfect moment for a modern Linux push to take that wind back.
Chris: What it needs, though, is to solve the remaining weakness on the hardware side.
Chris: He says, of the gains of electronics manufacturing, I'm tired of being stuck
Chris: between the Microsoft and Apple ecosystems.
Chris: I would only need to decide to commit the resources necessary.
Chris: One would only have to solve this hardware puzzle.
Chris: He finishes up with kind of speculating if maybe Dell or Sony could come in
Chris: and nail a dedicated Linux device.
Chris: And he ends with, I say this not as someone who thinks Linux will ever dominate
Chris: the personal computing world, but as someone who wants to see a spark of creativity
Chris: and push beyond mediocrity in it again.
Chris: Apple needs a real competitor, one with alternatives such as GNOME on Linux
Chris: could actually beat if only the hardware rose to the occasion.
Chris: Thought this was interesting in in a in a
Chris: sense where he's almost over the target but i
Chris: think he misses it just a little bit and what i mean by that is if you were
Chris: to go back in time and try to convince a windows user to switch to mac os you
Chris: might pitch them on the unix underpinnings if they're a geek if they're an average
Chris: user you might have pitched them on the fact that it
Chris: and have the virus problems that XP and Vista does and things like this,
Chris: because it's back in that era.
Chris: But what you wouldn't pitch them on.
Wes: Well, yeah, I mean, I had felt most of my land with Photon Canids.
Chris: We constantly put Linux into this hole.
Wes: There wasn't a lot of room to begin with. You wouldn't pitch them on one-to-one functionality.
Chris: You wouldn't pitch them on everything you can do today you can have on Linux.
Chris: And you wouldn't tell them that you're going to be able to get hardware that
Chris: does exactly what their PC hardware can do when you get a Mac.
Chris: Because it's just not how it works. You have to make changes.
Chris: You have to find alternatives.
Chris: You have to transition to different workflows for these different operating systems.
Chris: And if you try to promise anything else, or if you try to make Linux anything
Chris: else, it's always going to fall short. What do you think of my argument here?
Chris: Are they off mark? I feel like this is something we've always done with Linux
Chris: is we're like, well, we can make it the perfect Windows replacement or we can
Chris: make it the perfect Mac replacement if we just had exactly like Apple's hardware,
Chris: but it ran Linux really well.
Chris: This has been a failed strategy over and over again.
Chris: Well, it's different functionality. Some of it superior, some of it different, some of it not there.
Chris: And Brent, I think it's sort of where the framework laptop and that kind of
Chris: stuff feels like a solid alternative to the MacBook ecosystem.
Chris: It's not a direct one-to-one replacement.
Chris: But if you're willing to modify your workflow and change things a little bit,
Chris: it's an alternative that could be very appealing.
Chris: And I wonder if you, as a framework owner, if you share that.
Brent: I think I do. Like, from what I've seen and using it for the last two years,
Brent: it's been a great laptop. And I'm using an older motherboard.
Brent: So from what I hear, the experiences have been even better with modern framework
Brent: motherboards. So that's really good to hear.
Brent: They are ex-Apple people over there creating these. So they have some of that
Brent: perspective and quality and what people are looking for.
Brent: There are, of course, a couple issues because open source software is difficult.
Brent: Well, that's the Canadian in me, let's say. But I think this is the most hope we've had in a while.
Brent: We've seen a couple manufacturers come around and make developer-specific laptops
Brent: that could be available for Linux.
Brent: There's like the XPS, for instance, the Dev1, and a few others.
Brent: But the framework i think has at least
Brent: anecdotally found the most success took some time in our circles so these days
Brent: what i'm seeing at conferences is people with max and people frameworks and
Brent: the occasional sort of thinkpad but uh to me that's a sign of success headed
Brent: in the right direction but it's a really tough problem to solve.
Chris: I was thinking that, or maybe even more so, what Timothy is looking for here
Chris: is the Pop OS software-hardware combination, because that's what System76 is
Chris: going for here. That's true.
Chris: And then you have a select set of hardware with some options,
Chris: you know, some range of options.
Chris: So the other thing that's in the back of my mind is so we have some vendors
Chris: that are definitely attempting this.
Chris: But the other thing that's in the back of my mind is in October,
Chris: Windows 10 is end of life.
Chris: And we should in a way. And, you know, I've heard a lot of people out there
Chris: that are grumbling that are on Windows 10 right now that don't want to go to
Chris: Windows 11 or they can't.
Chris: There's also, I think, a ticking time bomb in Chrome OS.
Chris: Google is actively working on Android-ifying Chrome OS, and the new desktop
Chris: environment is going to be an Android launcher.
Chris: And it's going to be Android OS, not Chrome OS.
Chris: And I don't know if every user is going to love that transition.
Chris: And it feels like, again, that's an area where Linux could be really useful.
Chris: In my fantasy world, we'd somehow have users become aware of refurbished hardware
Chris: that is just as good and better than a Chromebook with more ports and functionality that could run Linux.
Wes: Oh, yeah.
Chris: It could run minimal Linux. I mean, there's a lot of options out there.
Chris: This is where I wish we as a show could push in some direction and affect change here.
Chris: Because with Chrome OS going to Android and Windows 10 wrapping up in October,
Chris: it feels like this summer is a Windows, Chrome OS expat opportunity for Linux.
Chris: And I just wish we could reach out and help facilitate the opportunity for desktop Linux.
Chris: I guess it's the advocate in me still. I can't get over it. But you know what
Chris: I mean? It's like, it feels like there's a real window here.
Chris: We've had these every now and then.
Chris: And I really do think GNOME 47 and Forward,
Chris: is just as nice, or if not better, than the stock Mac experience.
Chris: It's cleaner, it's simpler to understand, and the default applications have
Chris: roughly similar functionality.
Chris: Maybe Apple Photos has a few things it's better, but it also has some UI stuff
Chris: that's worse, right? So it's like really close.
Chris: Sure, yeah. Although I'm going to push back on your first point.
Chris: So you might be, I don't know, Wes, I mean, because you know,
Chris: they've got the Plasma desktop.
Chris: I mean, if they're really a savvy desktop user, they might pick a different
Chris: direction than stock GNOME 47.
Chris: But assuming they you know they really the
Chris: simple unified ui that mac supposedly offers really
Chris: appeals to them and they do go the gnome route even if
Chris: it even if the ui doesn't have like every single feature or
Chris: whatever they might want the reality is
Chris: the underlying tools on
Chris: linux for so many development workflows are superior
Chris: to what you can do on mac os and easier
Chris: than you can get them working on windows and they're improving at
Chris: such a rapid pace that it's almost
Chris: worth something that doesn't quite live it's almost worth compromising
Chris: on the desktop to have access to this underlying powerful set of tools that
Chris: are first class and now other operating systems are scrambling to be able to
Chris: support on their platforms right like in this weird way wes for the user you're
Chris: talking about that's more technical and maybe has higher expectations on their desktop environment.
Chris: I think there's at least some of them that want access to that sweet, tasty,
Chris: powerful Linux stuff where they have built-in CNames and they have built-in
Chris: virtualization and they have all the different package manager options and they
Chris: can solve all these things right there and run it locally on their system while they're building.
Chris: Like, it's just, yes, you can do it with VMs and yes, you can do it with containers
Chris: and yes, you can do it with WSL,
Chris: but that stuff sometimes months or a year behind, it's sort of bolted on.
Chris: It's not just sitting right there and being constantly updated by either Canonical or Arch or whoever.
Wes: Yeah this is where chris decided uh it was it was worth nuking jeff's last guy
Wes: you know if you had to take out some of my cannons and a bunch of my units there's
Wes: no problem I had a couple of friends that I told you, too, I think.
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Chris: Well it's been far too long since we have done an arch server update and yes
Chris: our one lone arch server remains i mean it just won't die,
Chris: so as is tradition when we finally update this thing we do it live on air so
Chris: if it blows up if our what is it six seven year old arch install here blows up now here's a problem,
Chris: we have not done an update on this arch server since may 5th 2024,
Chris: right uh so that means we have a total download size of 1.6 gigs we're going
Chris: to have a total installed size of 5.9 gigs with a net upgrade of 745 megabytes Indeed.
Wes: Yeah.
Chris: But the big number in here, we're going to get a new CFS. We're going to get a new container run.
Wes: We're going to get a new container run. I didn't even have to install anything, really.
Chris: Okay. We're also going to go from Linux 6.6.3 to Linux 6.12.23.
Chris: No. All right, Wes Payne. Let her rip. All right.
Wes: Ooh.
Chris: This might take a minute. It might. Yeah. So what I think we'll do. I did.
Chris: Okay, good. Try to help us out here. All right. So, Wes, you get that thing
Chris: kicked off. We'll check back in in a little bit.
Chris: But we do have some great boosts to get to in the meantime,
Chris: and the dude abides is our baller booster this week with 50 000 sats,
Chris: it's nice and short he says headset boost also enjoyed the game episode well
Chris: those are two very appreciated signals. Thank you very much.
Chris: Appreciate the baller boost, the dude abides, and also that you enjoyed the
Chris: game episode. I'm still feeling a little unsure about that, so I appreciate the feedback.
Chris: And your sats, along with the ones we received in this episode and a generous
Chris: boost, a direct boost from hybrid sarcasm, means we have met our goal to get
Chris: the headsets, three fancy new headsets,
Chris: arriving just in time for LinuxFest Northwest.
Chris: Yes, thank you, everybody.
Wes: Okay just one final follow-up question here brent did you have a good enough
Wes: time did we convince you to try yeah single-player campaign.
Chris: Without issues sounds a hint like a hint like maybe it's very hard yeah,
Chris: I would love a good Star Trek game. So speaking my language.
Wes: It also offers a paid online class for.
Brent: You know, if you want to base your society around you. For a total of 42,000 cents.
Brent: Would be absolutely excited for a 2E challenge. I always love to explore new
Brent: 2Es that I never thought would be up there.
Chris: I think this 2E challenge is starting to come together. I'm starting to visualize
Chris: a world where I've got like a dedicated terminal.
Chris: The one I want is not realistic, but I'm starting to visualize it.
Chris: And I think we're going to do it. We've got enough positive messages.
Chris: The one thing I think I'd like to still sort of sort out is execution.
Chris: So I could definitely use tips on like restrictions, what we can and can't do.
Chris: When we, if we can break out those
Chris: kinds of things. So I'm feeling like we just need to cook that bit up.
Chris: Yeah. Well, yeah. Like, I mean, think about it like publishing shows and stuff.
Chris: There are certain things that we have to use. web apps for that,
Chris: I don't know.
Brent: We could do some of that like wellness tracking so that like you can meet 80%
Brent: of your time in the TUI and then the essentials you get 20% to fit it all in.
Chris: Yeah yeah hey Odyssey Western is back with 25,000 sats,
Chris: headphone boosts thank you sir appreciate it we got there we got there,
Chris: Yeah.
Chris: Oh, good. Maybe it's the ADD.
Chris: That is kind of our hope, is to kind of keep it fresh. Mostly you kind of know
Chris: the range of topics we're going to be sort of over the target on,
Chris: but every now and then we like to do something different.
Chris: Keep us on our toes, too. Regarding the data.
Chris: If I wasn't already playing nice,
Chris: right on right on you know I actually wonder if the stream couldn't be useful
Chris: for people that are attending too like that something that's been in the back
Chris: of my mind is if you attend you tune in you get sort of the 411 on what's going on,
Chris: he's asked if he's supposed to sign up for talks nope,
Chris: show up Do your thing. As Brent says, let your freak collar?
Chris: I don't know. Because I don't have flags up there, so I'm not sure.
Brent: Well, the flyover friend flew over with 22,222 sats. Simply says, headset fund.
Chris: Hey, hey! Thank you. We really appreciate that. Somewhat Justin comes in with 4,004.
Wes: Sats. Ooh, it's crisp, though. It is.
Chris: I would love to see a window tiling manager challenge. Yeah,
Chris: that's another top requested one. punishment you have to disable all window
Chris: rules tiling and yes I do that the aspect ratio or you have to have been stretched slightly but it's.
Wes: Not it's not.
Chris: Realistic I could do access to you easier than I could do a tiling window manager
Chris: I might take that oh okay yeah yeah right that's the.
Wes: Okay so how many different.
Chris: Playing it damn I on Super Nintendo.
Wes: Gameboy Advance okay see.
Chris: Hey, congratulations.
Chris: Oh, too soon. Too soon.
Brent: Well, Hybrid Sarcasm shared 10,000 sats with us.
Brent: Loved episode 609. I'm a huge StarCraft fan, and it was a lot of fun to hear
Brent: you guys having so much fun with it.
Brent: Also, plus one for the 2E challenge.
Wes: Which you want to play some subset of.
Chris: I'm adding you to the list. Yeah, Brent's got a full-on addiction now.
Chris: He's been basically playing StarCraft since we hung up last week.
Brent: Where do I get rehab? Is there a phone number I can call?
Chris: Yeah, come on, man. Come on.
Brent: Brent, hey, Brent, it's Sunday.
Wes: That is pretty compelling. Just like, oh, I ordered fun game time from the internet,
Wes: and then it just showed up, and I can use it.
Chris: Just says Putin Jeff. Just says Putin Jeff.
Brent: Huh.
Chris: Huh.
Brent: PJ.
Chris: Are you boosting the show this week, too? Are you testing node capacity?
Chris: Yeah, I do. Test for Wes, a little coin for the headset. Look at you contributing
Chris: to the headset fund. What?
Chris: Okay. Under that fund...
Chris: To recreate that i just kept.
Brent: Ah
Brent: this is not uh what.
Chris: Gene did not like he did not like the gameplay he says non-gameplay bits were
Chris: good but he didn't like the gameplay so there you go it's good to hear from
Chris: gene though through wes i suppose oh okay.
Wes: I see it's also got what like.
Chris: Four Wes.
Wes: I am noting most of your tests are also rows of ducks.
Brent: So good job playing the game.
Chris: Yeah, you did. Speaking of rows of ducks, 8-tone came in with a row of ducks.
Chris: I've heard some rumblings about the R36S and Max in the Love 2D community.
Chris: It'd be very cool to use the R36 to see it gain a little more traction as a
Chris: target platform for amateur game development.
Wes: Yeah, it's just like a rectangular construction.
Chris: R36 is still the device to have, although I do like my screen.
Wes: Ergonomics may be at the end of the shape.
Chris: In the bedroom just every night I pick it up play a few games I got video poker
Chris: on there it's a lot of fun it's really simple no fuss no muss,
Chris: Oh, really?
Chris: That's... There's something there, I think.
Brent: Does it run StarCraft?
Chris: You know, I wouldn't be surprised if you could actually get it on there.
Chris: Yeah, it actually does have... It does have the StarCraft 64.
Chris: Yeah! Also...
Chris: There you go. Okay.
Wes: It does seem perfect for just taking it on the plane, carrying it in your bag
Wes: for a little downtime here and there while you're waiting for whatever.
Brent: Don't ever make a show about gaming again. Or at least put the technical parts
Brent: at the beginning and the gaming at the end.
Brent: I was moving forward 30 seconds until gaming was over.
Brent: At least this happens once every two-ish years.
Brent: But keep up the good work and also never gaming again.
Chris: You see what I'm saying? You see what I'm saying? Exactly.
Chris: Oh.
Brent: Ah.
Chris: That is true. I'd like to know. I'd like to know.
Chris: There's Gene Bane. He's back with 13,559 sats.
Chris: Here's some coin for the headsets. I read the bit about how he hates the gaming.
Chris: He's testing Wes, and he's testing Wes some more. All right.
Chris: Thank you, Gene. Feedback received. We will never talk about video games again. No, I'm kidding.
Chris: Although we don't do it very... I think it's actually been more than two years.
Chris: I just came up with two years as a random time, but it may have been more than that.
Chris: Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're gonna work it in slowly though, so don't worry.
Chris: Oh.
Chris: That's got to be kind of crushing. That sucks, man. Sorry to hear that.
Chris: All right, you got it. We're only
Chris: going to be talking about gaming going forward. Guarantee it. I cheat.
Chris: Thank you, Sire. It's good to hear from you. Sorry to hear about all the lost hours, man.
Brent: Well, Menin boosted in 2000s Satoshis. Hey, guys.
Brent: A small boost towards the headset from your listener here in Bangalore, India.
Chris: Aha, thank you.
Brent: Using fountain to listen to the shows and thanks for all the excellent work you do.
Chris: Thank you for checking in nice to hear from you from banglador and thank you
Chris: for the headset fund appreciate it tomato comes in with 5 000 sats i enjoy the
Chris: variety of shows and styles recently including the gaming silliness i wouldn't
Chris: want every show to be like that but once in a while it's fun yeah all right i think that's fair,
Chris: yeah no kidding that was our one shot you're right about that.
Wes: Oh it's got the star crafts in there of course,
Wes: oh castle crashers yeah that's fun.
Chris: And i like something to look at we.
Brent: Do like links to nix configs thank you uh that seems crazy but maybe it's the the muso comes.
Chris: In with 50 000.
Brent: Sets kasuri uh boosted in 5 000 sets unplugged.
Wes: Headset fund is.
Brent: Here's my multi-monitor setup 32 inch 1440 ultrawide with a 165 hertz.
Chris: It's a refresh. Okay.
Brent: And an LG dual-up ultra-tall on each side of the ultra-wide running NixOS and KDE Plasma.
Brent: So, just to be clear, that's two portrait monitors and one regular one all hooked up to a VFIO rig.
Chris: Oh, interesting. I'd love to hear more about that. Thank you,
Chris: Kyrgiosia. That's a killer setup.
Chris: WH2050 is here with 5,000 sets.
Chris: I was catching up on the back catalog and I just listened to episode 551.
Chris: A listener boosted in asking about using the Quest with glasses.
Chris: Well, I haven't heard any more on the subject, so I thought I would mention.
Chris: I struggled with this until I discovered you can get prescription lenses with
Chris: adapters that snap over the Quest screens.
Chris: The place I got mine is out of China, so the terrorism might not be worth it,
Chris: but you could do a bit of search-exing. How do we say that?
Chris: Search-NG. You know, something besides Google. to go see what options are out there.
Chris: WH, that's great. Good to know. I'm glad to hear you can get prescription lenses.
Chris: Sounds like it just might be a little bit how you go about it.
Chris: True.
Chris: I think, yeah, I think Fuzzy should do it. I think he should do it.
Chris: Give in to the StarCraft side.
Brent: It sounds like maybe secretly we should start a little JB server and just whoever
Brent: pops in gets beaten by Brent, right?
Chris: Meat for the grinder.
Brent: Well, Simon boosted in 3,333 sets.
Brent: Hey, Chris. Yeah, there's also a little human sort of cultural problem.
Wes: The other technical problem in that sense.
Brent: And Zelda 3.
Wes: I would argue on the Windows side, but here we are.
Brent: Well, how about co-op link to the past randomizer?
Brent: It's amazing. Maybe something for LinuxFest Northwest.
Chris: So this is a real thing I did not even know existed. There's a website.
Chris: I'll have it linked in the show notes. It's amazing.
Chris: And I think we should take a look at it after the show.
Chris: Simon, you have opened my eyes to a world I did not even know existed.
Chris: So thank you very much. And it could be the perfect thing for LinuxFest Northwest.
Chris: Producer Jeff is here with a row of ducks.
Chris: And he says, happy West Day. Yeah, that's true. It was a birthday week.
Chris: It was a birthday week for Mr. Payne, our very own. And PJ boosted in to say
Chris: thanks, or to say happy birthday. Yay!
Brent: Did you have a good day, Wes?
Chris: Yeah all right all right,
Chris: Help. But first time, please. oh congratulations thank you wow it's been a minute
Chris: since we heard from a long timer tr selby is he caffeinated often you know in
Chris: a chat room or something like that so it's good to see where the rubber.
Wes: Meets the road used towards getting the brent bus new rubber boots so you can roll on home thank you.
Chris: Ah
Chris: yeah ubuntu 610 was a solid release,
Chris: oh me oh i see he's got a math to it i like it,
Chris: What'd he say?
Chris: Well, thank you, Caffeinated Linux. It's really good to hear from you. That's awesome.
Brent: Well, BHH32 sent in 10,000 sats. Here's my contribution to the headphone fund.
Brent: See you at LinuxFest Northwest.
Brent: It'll be my very first LinuxFest, and I'm super excited for the Cosmic and the
Brent: Start Your Own Business talks.
Brent: Plus my 12 year old daughter is excited for the Blender for Beginnings.
Chris: That should be good.
Brent: Also if the community is interested I have a new blog post for the community
Brent: that may be interesting. I talk about a controversial topic.
Brent: Rust is easy and Go is hard.
Brent: I'll link to that in the show notes.
Chris: Well you know what? BHH we look forward to seeing you. and you'll know it's
Chris: us because we'll be the one with big, fancy broadcast headsets on. That's right!
Chris: Thank you, everybody. We really appreciate it. Great way to support the show.
Chris: Again, all of you also boosted in below the 2,000 set cutoff.
Chris: We do read them all, of course. And a shout-out to all of the SAT streamers.
Chris: 31 of you stream SATs as you listen to this episode collectively.
Chris: You SAT streamers stacked 40,927 SATs.
Chris: When you combine it with our boosters, This episode brought in a grand total
Chris: of 351,847 sats raised for episode 610 of your Unplugged program.
Chris: If you'd like to boost in, the easiest way is Fountain. It integrates with Strike,
Chris: and there's several options there, and they manage all the lightning stuff for
Chris: you, and you can boost right in.
Chris: But there are also some very fun and challenging, in some cases, self-hosted options.
Chris: You can get started at podcastapps.com. So you've got the full range to choose
Chris: from to boost into the show, to send us a message, and support each individual production.
Chris: What we love about it is all of this is open source.
Chris: We run our own nodes. The infrastructure itself is peer-to-peer and free software.
Chris: It all runs on top of Linux and of
Chris: course even the sats themselves there's no
Chris: middleman so we don't have to go to Stripe or PayPal they don't have to take
Chris: five percents all of your sats go directly to us and then the splits are built
Chris: in automatically so when you send a boost a bit of it automatically goes to
Chris: Wes and Brent and myself and editor
Chris: Drew the podcast does have a question mainly for you Brent I think I'm.
Wes: Going to do some car.
Chris: Camping if possible do I need permission from in the college to do so.
Wes: We ask you support with a boost. Any tips?
Chris: Or become a member and get access to a whole bunch more stuff including the
Chris: bootleg and the ad-free version of the show.
Chris: And thank you everybody who does support us. It makes all the difference in
Chris: the world and it keeps us going.
Chris: We definitely need you to buckle up for this one because we got two great picks this week.
Chris: One, I'm just going to throw out there as the first that was mentioned earlier
Chris: which is the randomizer game for Zelda.
Chris: And you can find this, it's on the web it's like
Chris: alt tpr.com well it's it's uh it's a playthrough that shuffles the location
Chris: of all the important items in the game and then you can join with a co-player
Chris: and essentially play like a fresh version of breath of the wild or not breath
Chris: of the wild but legend of zelda,
Chris: It is. It's GPL3. It's web host, or you can host it yourself.
Chris: And randomizer. Yeah, it is really great. So link to that in the show notes.
Chris: But this week, I think this might even have been a prediction of mine,
Chris: but that's not why it's in here.
Chris: You had a chance to play with chat chippity.
Chris: And it's not me just being cute. It's actually the name of a terminal client
Chris: tool that lets you get answers from LLMs on the command line.
Chris: It's chat, get information, print information, TTY, is what it stands for.
Chris: And it's a command line client for ChatGPT.
Wes: It allows you to chat with your chosen model in a terminal.
Chris: You can even pipe your output to it where that starts to seem pretty fancy.
Wes: Plus one here for the idea of making all those great AI songs available for
Wes: streaming. There's some real gems in there that we'd love to browse through.
Wes: And just a general thanks for the great work. Well, thank you.
Chris: It often happens like...
Wes: Yeah, someone has a habit of overproducing the bootleg.
Chris: Which also means you could echo the air output and have it start diagnosing
Chris: for you right there. Absolutely. Uh-huh.
Chris: Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Wes: And our last boost from Bronze Wing with a row of ducks.
Wes: Headphones and gaming. Yes! Hey, we're well in progress on both of them. Yeah.
Chris: What could go wrong what could go wrong i hope you ran it with sudo too,
Chris: oh okay all right i would have done it with sudo,
Chris: I was going to find you because it felt.
Wes: Ooh,
Wes: get your coast ready.
Chris: But then it started to actually be useful like i i i was i start i read west
Chris: had this whole thread of his result and i'm like oh that's funny that's cute
Chris: and by the end of i'm like oh,
Chris: oh you're actually using this to get things done now like this was actually
Chris: useful and andy and i i thought this would be a really funny gag for us to talk
Chris: about look at the stupid thing you can do a chat GPD from the terminal,
Chris: but as you played with it, I realized actually, this is something useful.
Chris: Yeah, I always do, actually. I love it. Even when I'm on a meeting sometimes
Chris: and I got a screen behind me, I'm like, should I throw Hollywood up on that screen?
Chris: I'd much prefer something that's like a fake defrag. I love the way those look.
Wes: You answered my question. I was going to say, you've got to give Spectacle at
Wes: least a little dimension.
Chris: How did you hack it in?
Chris: Oh, yeah, okay. Open Router talks like chat GPTs, OpenAI, whatever, API? Exactly. Okay.
Wes: Uh srts or sub subtitle files basically the same thing yeah yeah it could be a subtitle.
Wes: Uh yeah i haven't actually had a chance to try it yet,
Wes: right it's just basically like a python file that
Wes: hooks in to um all the
Wes: you know apis we have around open source llm so here's how it reads this script
Wes: extracts structured information from vtt files such as zoom meeting transcripts
Wes: or closed captions and converts it into json and markdown formats this includes
Wes: an overview participants main topics key points decisions and action items.
Wes: It uses open source LLMs to handle the data extraction and summarization,
Wes: ensuring everything can be run locally without the need to share with third parties.
Wes: But presumably also, if you wanted to, you could plug in a third party API provider as well. Hmm.
Chris: Sort of create a context.
Chris: Right, okay.
Chris: Okay, so you solved for what I was thinking while you were talking is,
Chris: God, you know what I would love is some sort of local llama instance. Maybe it's on my NAS.
Chris: Maybe it's on my best workstation. And it learns. And it knows my preferences
Chris: somehow. And so it knows, oh, he always wants this kind of output.
Chris: Or it knows my context between projects.
Chris: Where you could point a command line tool at your own always learning system
Chris: would be really something.
Chris: Yeah, I mean, that's pretty neat. Yeah, yeah.
Chris: Yeah. Your vibe shelling. Amazing.
Chris: Mm-hmm.
Chris: Chat, Jippity, we'll have a link to it in the show notes. Much of a hassle to get up and running?
Chris: Okay.
Chris: Oh, my God. It's LLMs all the way down. All the way down.
Brent: OS, the chat room is already asking if they can get a version of your visualizer
Brent: because they're looking for exactly that. So you're going to publish that stuff, right?
Chris: Maybe one day. Stay tuned. You may never know. You said you had good news? Yeah.
Chris: Oh, right. I forgot. I got so wrapped up in your cool pic there that I completely
Chris: forgot we were doing like a thing.
Chris: Yeah, go ahead. Reboot it. Let's do it. Let's find out.
Chris: Do you want what? You want like a...
Chris: I got it going, I think. Is it .4? Yeah. Yeah, it's going.
Chris: All right. So this is where we wait and find out.
Chris: Okay we're getting pings and we're getting replies i should say it appears the
Chris: server is back from its reboot,
Chris: all right all right you're getting in,
Chris: yeah that is do you have the one thing to check is do we have our zfs pool or
Chris: pools, if we have that, that's a good sign that the applications will start.
Chris: All right, we got ZFS.
Chris: Okay, we do not have applications yet, but the fact that the server is up and
Chris: the ZFS pools are online, Wes Payne, I think you have the correct answer.
Chris: At some point this is not going to work that was nearly a year between Arch
Chris: updates unbelievable unbelievable that it worked so well,
Chris: yeah he didn't even check the news he didn't even check the news yeah,
Chris: Ah, whoo, don't do as we do.
Brent: So what's the next irresponsible thing we could do in the next year before we
Brent: update it next time that should add to this kind of suspense?
Brent: Is there any ideas out there?
Chris: Well, I mean, you can always take some comfort in knowing that I'm constantly
Chris: adding new applications to this thing and new data.
Chris: So I'm actively using it and adding more applications that it's constantly having to run.
Chris: So every time we do this, it's gotten substantially more complicated.
Brent: I heard you say StarCraft server is what I heard.
Chris: I like where your head's at, Brantley.
Chris: Oh, now I like where your head's at.
Brent: Oh, I don't like this at all.
Chris: All right, well, boost it and tell us what we should run on our beloved Arch
Chris: server that should finally be put out of its misery, but we just can't kill.
Chris: Let us know also your thoughts on if anything could succeed Git and GitHub in
Chris: the next five to ten years.
Chris: And last but not least we want to know if you tune into a saturday stream on
Chris: the i think it's the 26th for linux fest northwest and we are still polling
Chris: everybody for their thoughts on the gaming content but without with all of that said.
Chris: Why not make it a linux tuesday on a sunday join us at around well we really
Chris: start around 9 30 but it's 10 a.m pacific we have it over at jupyterbroadcasting.com slash calendar.
Chris: And if you've got a podcast and a 2.0 app, it just shows up in your feed ready to go.
Chris: You can plug jblive.fm into anything that plays in the MP3 stream.
Chris: And of course, we've got the Mumble Room, too.
Chris: That's a lot of stuff. So I just
Chris: try to run through it as quickly as I can without screwing it up too bad.
Chris: Links to what we talked about today, linuxunplugged.com slash 610.
Chris: RSS feed, contact form, Mumble info, membership stuff, all of that's over there.
Chris: Thanks so much for joining us on this week's episode of the Unplugged program.
Chris: See you next Tuesday, as in Sunday.