WEBVTT 00:00:11.363 --> 00:00:16.103 Hello, friends, and welcome back to your weekly Linux talk show. My name is Chris. 00:00:16.283 --> 00:00:16.923 My name is Wes. 00:00:17.123 --> 00:00:18.003 And my name is Brentley. 00:00:18.203 --> 00:00:22.763 Hello, gentlemen. Good to see you. And hello, everyone here at LinuxFest Northwest 2026. 00:00:23.383 --> 00:00:23.743 Woo! 00:00:25.143 --> 00:00:29.423 Hello there. In the beautiful Bellingham, Washington, in the very corner of 00:00:29.423 --> 00:00:32.123 the majestic Pacific Northwest at the Bellingham Technical College. 00:00:32.163 --> 00:00:34.463 And it is LinuxFest Northwest 2026. 00:00:34.783 --> 00:00:39.383 And this is a very special year. We'll get more into that in just a little bit. 00:00:39.383 --> 00:00:42.083 We also are going to set the ground rules for the BSD Challenge, 00:00:42.103 --> 00:00:43.783 which actually kicks off next week. 00:00:43.943 --> 00:00:44.603 Uh-oh. 00:00:44.923 --> 00:00:47.303 The show don't slow down. The show don't slow down. 00:00:47.423 --> 00:00:49.163 You brought your flash drives, right? 00:00:49.543 --> 00:00:52.743 We should get going, right? And then, of course, as always, we'll round it out 00:00:52.743 --> 00:00:54.923 with some boos, some great picks, and a lot more. 00:00:55.123 --> 00:00:58.683 We don't have a mumble room with us, but we do have producer Jeff. Hey, PJ. 00:00:59.043 --> 00:00:59.403 Hello. 00:00:59.783 --> 00:01:01.463 And we have Tech Dev with us. Hello, Tech Dev. 00:01:01.503 --> 00:01:02.143 Hey there, guys. 00:01:02.383 --> 00:01:06.543 Nice to have you both. And we are going to do day one right now, 00:01:06.603 --> 00:01:08.983 and then we'll be doing day two a little bit later in the show. 00:01:09.383 --> 00:01:14.323 Before we get to all of that, I want to say good morning to our friends over at Defined Networking. 00:01:14.443 --> 00:01:19.123 Go to defined.net slash unplugged and check out Managed Nebula. 00:01:19.363 --> 00:01:23.383 It's a decentralized VPN built on the open source Nebula platform that we love. 00:01:23.583 --> 00:01:26.803 And when I'm building a network, I really do try to think long term now. 00:01:26.923 --> 00:01:29.103 I want something fast. I want it secure and I want it resilient. 00:01:29.383 --> 00:01:31.703 And most importantly, I want it under my control. 00:01:32.463 --> 00:01:35.423 That's why I like Managed Nebula from Defined Networking. It's a decentralized 00:01:35.423 --> 00:01:39.743 VPN built on the open-source Nebula platform, which was originally engineered for Slack. 00:01:39.883 --> 00:01:40.023 What? 00:01:40.303 --> 00:01:44.123 Yeah, real scale. And get started. You can use it yourself. 100 hosts, 00:01:44.203 --> 00:01:47.523 totally free, no credit card required. Just go to define.net slash unplugged. 00:01:47.923 --> 00:01:51.143 Go deeper. Check it out. You can self-host the entire infrastructure yourself. 00:01:51.143 --> 00:01:53.703 You can build it totally private the way you actually need it. 00:01:53.923 --> 00:01:57.043 It's simple enough for your home lab. It's strong enough for a global team. 00:01:57.203 --> 00:02:00.043 And it's built for people who want to own the entire stack. Try it free, 00:02:00.143 --> 00:02:06.343 define.net slash unplugged. Go support them and check it out at Define.net slash Unplugged. 00:02:06.383 --> 00:02:11.183 We really do appreciate Define Networking for supporting the Unplugged program. Thank you very much. 00:02:13.161 --> 00:02:16.841 All right, this is our LinuxFest Northwest episode, but we invite all kinds 00:02:16.841 --> 00:02:20.261 to join us here, and there are the BSD types as well. 00:02:20.601 --> 00:02:24.401 And so we want to get everybody queued up on what the deal is, 00:02:24.501 --> 00:02:27.701 what the rules are for the BSD challenge, because it starts. 00:02:27.841 --> 00:02:31.581 It wouldn't be a challenge without some convoluted rules that we probably argue 00:02:31.581 --> 00:02:36.221 about now and later when we do the adjudicating, but we've got to start now to be, you know, try. 00:02:36.401 --> 00:02:38.301 We want you to be able to follow along. Yes, sir. 00:02:38.921 --> 00:02:42.961 Excuse me, is one of the rules don't launch a BSD challenge at a Linux event? 00:02:44.221 --> 00:02:49.221 So we're going to give you the rules. The challenge will actually start next episode, 665. 00:02:50.041 --> 00:02:54.261 And then it will conclude in episode 600 and 666. 00:02:58.941 --> 00:03:04.901 So you have a little bit of time. You get to follow along. So it's not a Linux versus BSD challenge. 00:03:05.081 --> 00:03:08.241 It's really can Linux users become functional on BSD challenge. 00:03:08.561 --> 00:03:13.321 Fresh BSD install is the idea. Four levels you can climb. You get to pick your 00:03:13.321 --> 00:03:18.241 own BSD, free BSD, open BSD, net BSD, ghost BSD, brand BSD, whatever it be. 00:03:18.241 --> 00:03:19.261 Hey, where's Dragonfly? 00:03:20.481 --> 00:03:22.161 Sure, Dragonfly BSD. Just didn't. 00:03:22.201 --> 00:03:23.621 Is there a BTSD version? 00:03:23.841 --> 00:03:26.241 It didn't rhyme, and I came up with a little rhyme, and I liked it, 00:03:26.261 --> 00:03:31.301 so I went with it. So we have, like I say, four levels, like Wes over there say. Four levels. 00:03:31.741 --> 00:03:34.481 Level one, you can get up to seven points. If you can get it booted, 00:03:34.581 --> 00:03:36.921 a fresh BSD installed somewhere, connect to the internet. 00:03:37.101 --> 00:03:38.081 That's going to be easy, though, right? 00:03:38.161 --> 00:03:41.401 Install a package, read a man page, you get points. We'll put all of this up 00:03:41.401 --> 00:03:46.101 at linuxunplugged.com slash BSD. So you can go there and get all the rules. 00:03:46.841 --> 00:03:51.041 So there's level two, which is you become a daily driver. Can you just do normal 00:03:51.041 --> 00:03:52.841 desktop stuff for human beings on this thing? 00:03:52.921 --> 00:03:55.921 Can you get a graphical desktop running a web browser? 00:03:56.221 --> 00:03:58.961 You know, don't run as root, which is awesome. 00:03:59.301 --> 00:04:02.101 And can you get audio working? Even just test sounds. 00:04:02.401 --> 00:04:03.481 Oh, yeah. Is that a thing? 00:04:04.557 --> 00:04:06.477 Oh, why are you making that face? 00:04:06.677 --> 00:04:07.337 It's a thing. 00:04:07.557 --> 00:04:12.697 I don't know if Brent knows how much is different. I mean, there's a lot that's the same or similar. 00:04:13.277 --> 00:04:13.737 Yeah. 00:04:13.957 --> 00:04:15.017 Or spelt differently, I hear. 00:04:15.337 --> 00:04:18.837 But there's whole sort of areas where the concept is the same, 00:04:18.877 --> 00:04:21.237 but the implementation has a totally different history. 00:04:21.237 --> 00:04:25.877 Have you ever seen pictures of a Russian knockoff of a Russian computer in the 80s or a Russian car? 00:04:25.977 --> 00:04:26.337 Yeah. 00:04:26.637 --> 00:04:27.357 Yeah, it's kind of like that. 00:04:29.197 --> 00:04:31.917 I mean, they might suggest that's what Linux is. 00:04:32.657 --> 00:04:37.417 Nope. Level three, if you can get to be a level three user, so you earn somewhere 00:04:37.417 --> 00:04:39.817 between 15 and 20 points. Again, all this will be on the website. 00:04:40.237 --> 00:04:44.137 You are now technically in the power user power band. 00:04:44.257 --> 00:04:44.777 Well, that was easy. 00:04:44.977 --> 00:04:49.057 Well, maybe. Can you stop and start certain services? Can you edit the config 00:04:49.057 --> 00:04:52.297 so it does something right at start, at boot the way you want it? 00:04:52.777 --> 00:04:55.797 Could you write a little shell script that runs on BSD? Can you edit a config? 00:04:56.017 --> 00:04:56.977 You know, those guys, can you do it? 00:04:57.077 --> 00:04:59.377 Have you effectively kicked your systemd habit? 00:04:59.657 --> 00:05:02.017 Yeah, again, all the things that you can do to earn points will be on the website. 00:05:02.097 --> 00:05:02.777 There's no systemd? 00:05:02.777 --> 00:05:06.617 And then level four, bonus round. If you can get over 21 points, 00:05:06.617 --> 00:05:09.997 you are truly, truly a BSD master. 00:05:10.537 --> 00:05:14.417 And this includes things like getting certain services inside a jail. 00:05:14.417 --> 00:05:16.397 So not just going with a pre-built jail. 00:05:18.486 --> 00:05:20.126 I don't even know what you're saying anymore. 00:05:21.446 --> 00:05:24.426 Yeah, I know. And some of the BSDs don't have jails, so you're going to have to figure that one out. 00:05:24.606 --> 00:05:25.226 They're more prisons? 00:05:25.486 --> 00:05:28.166 Also, there's other things like, you know, we could maybe, if it doesn't have 00:05:28.166 --> 00:05:30.366 jails, we could say if you could still get a service running that you can access 00:05:30.366 --> 00:05:32.646 from the network, then that would be allowable too, I think. 00:05:32.786 --> 00:05:35.626 Yeah, you know, maybe you're building it out in your home lab or providing mesh 00:05:35.626 --> 00:05:37.906 network services. There's a lot of stuff you can do. 00:05:38.106 --> 00:05:39.986 All right, so TechDev has a qualifying question. Go ahead. 00:05:40.366 --> 00:05:43.506 Yeah, do we get extra points for users who can get this going in California? 00:05:44.126 --> 00:05:45.766 Yeah, I feel like that's true, yeah. 00:05:45.906 --> 00:05:46.446 That's a good answer. 00:05:46.446 --> 00:05:50.426 There should be maybe a handicap for California. I could, yeah. 00:05:50.906 --> 00:05:54.466 Or list the number of sort of compliance or regulatory hurdles you overcame 00:05:54.466 --> 00:05:55.986 to get this working, and we'll give you points. 00:05:56.086 --> 00:05:58.586 Boost in to plead your case, and the board will consider it. 00:05:59.406 --> 00:06:02.066 So, you know, if you want, we'll give it special consideration. 00:06:02.526 --> 00:06:03.326 Lawbreaking points? 00:06:05.026 --> 00:06:08.486 All right. Rebel points. Also, I think points will be issued... 00:06:09.466 --> 00:06:09.866 Randomly. 00:06:09.946 --> 00:06:14.006 ...for the craziest place you've installed BSD. I mean, it has to get us going. 00:06:15.126 --> 00:06:20.106 So you know So the craziest place you've got BST Let us know And here's how we want you to submit, 00:06:21.149 --> 00:06:25.589 You can send a boost or you can go to linuxunplugged.com slash contact and tell 00:06:25.589 --> 00:06:31.269 us in there which BSD you used, your score that you got, if you have a weird 00:06:31.269 --> 00:06:33.529 install place, how you installed it, that kind of thing. 00:06:33.669 --> 00:06:35.869 And if anything surprised you about it, let us know that too. 00:06:36.389 --> 00:06:40.289 When you say location, are we talking about what device or what physical location 00:06:40.289 --> 00:06:41.769 that you were able to install it on? 00:06:41.889 --> 00:06:42.509 Sure, both. 00:06:42.609 --> 00:06:44.089 You can plead your case. I have a question. 00:06:44.209 --> 00:06:44.369 Yeah. 00:06:44.589 --> 00:06:45.289 It's me now. 00:06:45.509 --> 00:06:46.689 Yeah, go ahead. Go ahead, Brad. Go ahead. 00:06:47.209 --> 00:06:51.129 Can we get extra points with how many days we ran BSD? 00:06:51.329 --> 00:06:54.949 I feel like if you can run it for the whole week, that's definitely some points, 00:06:55.109 --> 00:06:57.509 right? Or every day you drive it, maybe? What do you think of that? 00:06:57.769 --> 00:06:58.309 Yeah, that's fair. 00:06:58.549 --> 00:07:01.169 Every day you drive it, what would be fair? A point for every day? 00:07:01.649 --> 00:07:03.969 Yeah, okay. We got a max of seven days. 00:07:03.969 --> 00:07:05.689 Because I'm not going to daily drive it. 00:07:05.849 --> 00:07:07.329 Oh, you say that now. You might love it. 00:07:07.469 --> 00:07:07.769 No. 00:07:07.949 --> 00:07:10.529 What if, I mean, when you start seeing Brent stacking points, 00:07:10.649 --> 00:07:12.029 maybe you'll change your mind. That is true. 00:07:12.169 --> 00:07:13.029 I hate it. I started early. 00:07:13.189 --> 00:07:14.109 I hate it when he's... What? 00:07:14.449 --> 00:07:14.709 No. 00:07:14.709 --> 00:07:19.329 The reason that there wasn't a van is because he was getting BSD installed. 00:07:20.189 --> 00:07:23.189 You can't do brake swaps when you're doing BSD swaps. 00:07:23.589 --> 00:07:26.989 Well, that's the whole reason. The gas line broke because it was running on BSD. 00:07:27.249 --> 00:07:29.509 Ah, yeah. You've got to pick the right field. 00:07:30.089 --> 00:07:33.329 All right. So let us know how it goes. Give us your score. If you can get over 00:07:33.329 --> 00:07:35.469 21 points, you're truly a beastie whisperer. 00:07:35.849 --> 00:07:38.069 I'm going to be honest with you. I think I'm going for the survival level, 00:07:38.169 --> 00:07:40.749 which is somewhere in the 8 to 14 points. So here's how it stacks out. 00:07:41.289 --> 00:07:45.549 If you get 0 to 7 points, then you have visited BSD as far as the show is concerned. 00:07:45.829 --> 00:07:47.149 You've done it. You've visited BSD. 00:07:47.549 --> 00:07:51.769 If you get 8 to 14 points, you have survived BSD. I think that's probably where I'm headed. 00:07:52.409 --> 00:07:55.569 If you can get 15 to 20 points, you can hang with BSD. 00:07:55.769 --> 00:07:55.909 Wow. 00:07:56.009 --> 00:07:59.709 And if you get beyond 21 points, 21 or beyond, you become a Beastie Whisperer 00:07:59.709 --> 00:08:00.609 as far as the show is concerned. 00:08:01.069 --> 00:08:03.029 I got a personal stretch goal for you. 00:08:03.149 --> 00:08:03.269 Yeah. 00:08:03.970 --> 00:08:09.610 You know, just think about the hero's journey here if you were able to convert fake NAS. 00:08:10.430 --> 00:08:11.610 Oh, my God. 00:08:11.770 --> 00:08:15.850 Back to BSD and then import the pool back to BSD ZFS. 00:08:16.170 --> 00:08:16.350 Wow. 00:08:16.430 --> 00:08:18.710 There's no way I couldn't do that without you guys, though. Well, 00:08:18.950 --> 00:08:20.750 both from an emotional support level. 00:08:20.930 --> 00:08:22.210 Call in friend support. 00:08:22.330 --> 00:08:23.050 Oh, come on. 00:08:23.150 --> 00:08:25.670 You could do a 50-50, call a friend, you know. 00:08:25.910 --> 00:08:27.970 You're going to make me put everything into open code? No. 00:08:30.050 --> 00:08:31.610 Oh, is that a rule? 00:08:32.350 --> 00:08:35.210 I mean, I don't think it runs on BSD, but you can figure it out. 00:08:35.790 --> 00:08:41.010 So there is a conceivable possibility where somebody could get up to like 30 points. 00:08:41.310 --> 00:08:45.050 And if anybody wants to link us an audio file or something like that of their 00:08:45.050 --> 00:08:47.650 journey, if it's short and tight, we might play it on the show as well. That could be. 00:08:47.650 --> 00:08:48.870 A lot of fun. Did you say call the launch? 00:08:49.230 --> 00:08:51.730 You could call the launch, but it's probably better to send it to this show. 00:08:51.730 --> 00:08:53.410 Yeah, that's true. That's true. Okay, sorry. 00:08:53.690 --> 00:08:54.210 We should need a number. 00:08:54.210 --> 00:08:55.670 Send it to Brent's voicemail. 00:08:56.850 --> 00:08:58.070 We need a number for this show. 00:08:58.150 --> 00:08:58.470 Yeah, we do. 00:08:58.470 --> 00:09:01.270 Kind of thing, so people can call and give us live reports right in the heat 00:09:01.270 --> 00:09:04.330 of the moment. This damn thing. That'd be so amazing. 00:09:04.790 --> 00:09:05.510 Please send those. 00:09:05.550 --> 00:09:08.010 Maybe the next challenge we could get that set up. That could be good. 00:09:08.450 --> 00:09:10.970 Email that to alanjude at jupiterbroadcasting.com. 00:09:10.970 --> 00:09:11.310 Yeah. 00:09:13.250 --> 00:09:17.570 Alright, so it might be day one of LinuxFest Northwest for us, 00:09:17.590 --> 00:09:22.630 but the reality is LinuxFest Northwest is a week-long, if not two-week-long process. 00:09:23.450 --> 00:09:26.070 PJ, you got here Wednesday evening. 00:09:26.070 --> 00:09:26.650 Yeah. 00:09:27.170 --> 00:09:32.590 And then made it over to the farm pretty quick and got right to work. 00:09:39.470 --> 00:09:40.130 Oh. 00:09:50.170 --> 00:09:54.050 Something always happens we were down a couple of cars and we got an extra crew 00:09:54.050 --> 00:09:58.750 here we need to get another car working we didn't get that car working and. 00:09:58.750 --> 00:10:01.490 You know that Jeff gets kind of handsy if. 00:10:01.490 --> 00:10:06.550 He's not helping you with something he gets handsy? he does he's got to jack 00:10:06.550 --> 00:10:08.550 something up or he gets handsy. 00:10:08.550 --> 00:10:09.410 He has for consent. 00:10:11.530 --> 00:10:14.030 But you had how many cars to work on? 00:10:14.170 --> 00:10:18.070 Well we had three cars to work on we got two out of three two out of three working 00:10:18.070 --> 00:10:19.970 No, yours was already up and running, thankfully. 00:10:20.230 --> 00:10:20.470 Oh, surprising. 00:10:20.670 --> 00:10:20.910 Somehow. 00:10:21.290 --> 00:10:24.550 Yeah, yeah. But you got here, which is great. You got in yesterday evening. 00:10:24.870 --> 00:10:25.150 Yes. 00:10:26.430 --> 00:10:27.150 Time's going fast. 00:10:27.150 --> 00:10:29.750 It takes a long time when you're on the other side of the continent, it turns out. 00:10:29.910 --> 00:10:30.650 Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. 00:10:30.850 --> 00:10:32.210 But I got here, and I feel good. 00:10:32.490 --> 00:10:35.830 Yeah, yeah, it does feel good. And, you know, I've been thinking about, 00:10:35.970 --> 00:10:39.210 like, what do we do for LinuxFest this year? 00:10:39.270 --> 00:10:43.890 Because I've been going for 26 years now, and how do you make that different? 00:10:43.890 --> 00:10:45.650 We've been covering it in the show for almost a decade. 00:10:46.270 --> 00:10:49.950 How do you actually make that different? And I was thinking about this, 00:10:50.050 --> 00:10:55.650 and I realized that it's kind of the theme of LinuxFest, which is back to root. 00:10:55.810 --> 00:11:00.490 Because it hits different this year for a few reasons, and I want to get into that. 00:11:00.670 --> 00:11:04.670 Some of them are close to home. Some of them, I think, are really about where Linux is at now. 00:11:05.430 --> 00:11:09.350 But first, it's lunchtime for us. So we have to go grill up some hot dogs. 00:11:09.490 --> 00:11:13.610 And then when we come back after the break, it'll be day two of LinuxFest Northwest. 00:11:16.669 --> 00:11:21.089 But before we get there, I want to say thank you to our members for making this possible. 00:11:21.869 --> 00:11:23.709 Sincerely, members, we're like 00:11:23.709 --> 00:11:26.969 running on fumes these days, and it's the fumes that you are providing. 00:11:27.189 --> 00:11:31.389 So we really do appreciate it. And of course, Define Networking is also like 00:11:31.389 --> 00:11:32.909 coming in clutch, as the kids would say. 00:11:33.209 --> 00:11:35.769 They're really clutching it up. Between the two, it's like we're making it, 00:11:35.869 --> 00:11:37.829 and we're able to do things like LinuxFest Northwest. 00:11:38.109 --> 00:11:40.769 If you'd like to become a member, linuxunplugged.com slash membership. 00:11:41.009 --> 00:11:43.969 If you want to support the whole network, that'd be jupyter.party, 00:11:44.109 --> 00:11:45.709 and we really do appreciate it. 00:11:45.709 --> 00:11:49.149 sincerely you can also boost the show and support each episode individually the 00:11:49.149 --> 00:11:52.189 splits go to all of the host editor drew the podcast developer and a little 00:11:52.189 --> 00:11:55.329 bit goes to the index as well and the nice thing about that it's immediate it's 00:11:55.329 --> 00:11:58.289 all done there's no banks anything like that it's just all over a peer-to-peer 00:11:58.289 --> 00:12:02.509 open source network using an entire open source linux to linux stack on our 00:12:02.509 --> 00:12:05.369 end thank you everybody who supports the show through a membership or through 00:12:05.369 --> 00:12:07.089 a boost we really do appreciate you, 00:12:10.787 --> 00:12:16.187 And here we are at LinuxFest Northwest Day 2. Hello, everybody in HC108. Nice to have you here. 00:12:16.647 --> 00:12:17.007 Yes. 00:12:19.187 --> 00:12:23.107 Actually, round of applause. How many of you got a hot dog yesterday? Anybody get a hot dog? 00:12:23.387 --> 00:12:23.507 Yeah. 00:12:23.787 --> 00:12:27.507 All right. Some hot dogs. Some hot dogs. Pizza and Indian food was also available. 00:12:27.947 --> 00:12:29.327 The hot dogs were free. It went really well. 00:12:29.947 --> 00:12:33.487 Emma and my wife, Adia, were absolute machines at the barbecue. 00:12:33.687 --> 00:12:36.707 I took a photo of the lineup. It lasted, like, for two hours, 00:12:36.767 --> 00:12:39.867 and it was huge. Lots of lineups. Very efficient and courteous. 00:12:39.867 --> 00:12:41.607 Yeah, it was grill crazy. 00:12:41.787 --> 00:12:43.387 So shout out to System76 for that. 00:12:43.667 --> 00:12:47.627 So we wanted to talk about a couple of things just to kind of warm us up while 00:12:47.627 --> 00:12:49.087 we're all getting going here. 00:12:49.187 --> 00:12:53.527 And the first one is actually a local LLM story and the Linux kernel. 00:12:53.867 --> 00:12:56.787 And how Greg KH, the number two in command of the Linux kernel, 00:12:56.987 --> 00:13:04.467 has been running his own bot that he calls, I love this name, GKH Clanker T1000. 00:13:05.167 --> 00:13:05.987 That's appropriate. 00:13:06.187 --> 00:13:06.967 That's the name of his bot. 00:13:07.067 --> 00:13:09.107 The label is up front, and you've got to appreciate that. 00:13:09.107 --> 00:13:16.007 And he's running it locally on his LAN on an AMD Ryzen system that's in a framework desktop. 00:13:16.387 --> 00:13:19.227 And he's put a picture of it up on Mastodon. 00:13:19.367 --> 00:13:22.607 Like the rest of us, he's got a monitor propped up on some various sort of tech 00:13:22.607 --> 00:13:24.247 books he probably hasn't read for a decade. 00:13:24.427 --> 00:13:24.967 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:13:25.107 --> 00:13:26.007 So you know he's a real hacker. 00:13:26.187 --> 00:13:26.907 Yeah, that's very true. 00:13:27.047 --> 00:13:27.347 He doesn't care. 00:13:27.787 --> 00:13:32.487 So I thought I'd kick this off. And if anybody has any input or thoughts, 00:13:32.627 --> 00:13:36.687 raise your hand. But we've been watching, I feel like, the Linux community and 00:13:36.687 --> 00:13:42.627 the open source community really grapple with a lot of the moral and licensing issues around LLMs. 00:13:42.787 --> 00:13:46.807 At the same time, what we're also witnessing is... 00:13:47.845 --> 00:13:51.905 Folks like kernel developers and project leads and people that are shipping 00:13:51.905 --> 00:13:55.945 software are rapidly also using these tools. 00:13:56.665 --> 00:14:01.305 And the adoption seems to be kind of like there's this bifurcation of some folks 00:14:01.305 --> 00:14:05.145 that are working on the lower level projects, like maybe desktop software and 00:14:05.145 --> 00:14:08.385 things like that, and they're taking very strong anti-AI stances. 00:14:08.645 --> 00:14:12.685 And then you have people on the kernels and on the larger projects and services 00:14:12.685 --> 00:14:16.725 that we all use, and they're integrating, they're already integrating and using AI. 00:14:17.512 --> 00:14:19.772 And it seems like we have, and I'm sure you probably maybe have some thoughts 00:14:19.772 --> 00:14:24.052 on this. It seems like we have this split here, this kind of bifurcation inside our own community. 00:14:24.332 --> 00:14:27.012 You know, I think at least some of that, I mean, there's a lot of aspects to 00:14:27.012 --> 00:14:31.252 unpack, but I think some of it is, thankfully, we've seen that Greg and some 00:14:31.252 --> 00:14:35.872 of the kernel team these days are, I guess, a little more well-resourced than 00:14:35.872 --> 00:14:38.152 your average open source FOSS developer, right? 00:14:38.252 --> 00:14:41.552 And so I think some of this is, whether you want to engage or not, 00:14:41.672 --> 00:14:45.472 there is the rise of other folks using it, whether that's for good or just a 00:14:45.472 --> 00:14:47.552 lot of bug reports you don't know what to do with or whatever. 00:14:47.812 --> 00:14:50.852 So I think what we are seeing is that for the people in the privileged position 00:14:50.852 --> 00:14:53.292 on some of the kernel team who are interested and willing in doing a lot of 00:14:53.292 --> 00:14:56.932 their own work, they are in a good position to be able to adopt and play with 00:14:56.932 --> 00:15:00.532 and use some of this tooling maybe in the ways they want, like running locally, 00:15:00.692 --> 00:15:02.492 like having sponsored hardware and that kind of stuff. 00:15:02.892 --> 00:15:06.912 So I think maybe it could be a leading edge exploring when you do have time, 00:15:06.972 --> 00:15:10.272 when you do have support, how can you adopt some of these tools to help your workflow? 00:15:10.472 --> 00:15:13.032 Okay, so here's my question to you guys. If anybody wants to answer it, 00:15:13.112 --> 00:15:15.052 raise your hand. Otherwise, I'm going to make Brent answer it. 00:15:15.052 --> 00:15:16.692 Oh, please help me. 00:15:17.292 --> 00:15:21.952 Is this the first step to our community kind of coming to a consensus on AI? 00:15:22.532 --> 00:15:26.372 Will we kind of come to a general consensus of, yes, it's good when you use 00:15:26.372 --> 00:15:29.152 it in these conditions for these things? Is this how we get there? 00:15:29.612 --> 00:15:31.572 Anyone have thoughts on that? Do you have thoughts on that? 00:15:31.692 --> 00:15:35.612 I think I have some thoughts. I'll warm up till someone wants to approach the mic. 00:15:36.492 --> 00:15:39.132 Yeah, I think it's reasonable that a lot of us are hesitating. 00:15:39.132 --> 00:15:43.512 but to have someone like the Colonel team start to do this and in ways that 00:15:43.512 --> 00:15:45.212 are local, I think feels really nice. 00:15:45.712 --> 00:15:50.092 And it shows that some of the teams that we look up to, 00:15:50.779 --> 00:15:53.979 I mean, literally it's on every laptop in this room, are doing, 00:15:53.999 --> 00:15:58.419 at least using the tools in a responsible way that we can also sign up for. 00:15:58.559 --> 00:16:01.279 Maybe that's it. He's kind of demonstrating a responsible way to use the tool. 00:16:01.439 --> 00:16:07.779 And like using, you know, some computer manufacturers that do follow some of 00:16:07.779 --> 00:16:10.979 the ideals that we care about and that, hey, it's possible today. 00:16:11.419 --> 00:16:15.419 And even if you don't have as big of hardware as that, give it a couple of years. 00:16:15.419 --> 00:16:20.599 And the work that Linux has done to make AI available to run on these machines 00:16:20.599 --> 00:16:24.859 is going to allow us all to have AI in a way that kind of fits for us, 00:16:25.019 --> 00:16:30.079 despite all the challenges that we currently have with how it's made and being used. 00:16:30.259 --> 00:16:32.959 PJ is here. What do you think? Does Greg doing these kinds of things, 00:16:33.059 --> 00:16:33.979 does it set a good example? 00:16:34.199 --> 00:16:38.859 And my second question would be, is he maybe limiting himself only using the free local stuff? 00:16:38.859 --> 00:16:44.679 Oh, that's a good second question. The first one for me is, I think it's just an example of trust. 00:16:44.819 --> 00:16:48.199 And that's something I took away from Mad Dog's talk about, Mad Dog's talk about 00:16:48.199 --> 00:16:52.679 sovereignty is you have to trust something at some point, you have to trust someone at some point. 00:16:53.159 --> 00:16:55.999 And even if I don't trust all AI 00:16:55.999 --> 00:17:01.239 all the time, if somebody like Greg KH is using a tool, I trust Greg KH. 00:17:02.259 --> 00:17:05.079 Knowing what tool he's using would be helpful. And the fact that he is going 00:17:05.079 --> 00:17:07.179 local, well, that's been my personal stance as well. 00:17:07.319 --> 00:17:11.639 I have used the online stuff. I think it's very powerful, but I specifically 00:17:11.639 --> 00:17:14.239 want to focus on running the software locally. 00:17:14.859 --> 00:17:17.979 And I'm kind of glad that I'm seeing these guys. 00:17:18.099 --> 00:17:20.779 These turn on developers do the same thing. So what about any of this would 00:17:20.779 --> 00:17:23.499 apply to you too, if you're only using local stuff today, I mean, 00:17:23.579 --> 00:17:26.839 this is going to change in a couple of years, but today, maybe it's not finding 00:17:26.839 --> 00:17:30.959 as many vulnerabilities as you know, an opus or a mythos or whatever it is that 00:17:30.959 --> 00:17:32.419 you'd pay thousands of dollars for. 00:17:33.438 --> 00:17:35.378 Yeah, I mean, I think that's just gonna get better and better. 00:17:35.598 --> 00:17:39.578 What we've noticed every month, the local stuff is better and better. 00:17:39.778 --> 00:17:42.998 You know, they're, they're finding better ways to compress everything and fit 00:17:42.998 --> 00:17:47.598 more into memory. And it's just insane. I've got a very old graphics card, and it's running great. 00:17:47.858 --> 00:17:50.118 I'm just trying to do more and more with it. And I think we're just going to 00:17:50.118 --> 00:17:51.518 keep seeing that get better and better. 00:17:51.718 --> 00:17:55.858 Eventually, eventually, we're going to be on the same stage as, 00:17:56.663 --> 00:17:57.983 the mainframes running these things. 00:17:58.223 --> 00:18:00.543 It only makes me think, right, in open source, we're kind of used to this. 00:18:00.663 --> 00:18:02.623 So, home labs and self-hosting, right? 00:18:02.743 --> 00:18:06.143 Like, can we compete with the storage for Google Photos back in? 00:18:06.203 --> 00:18:08.363 No, but kind of we can now because we have image, right? 00:18:08.443 --> 00:18:11.643 So, it might take longer because there's a bigger hardware difference than we were facing before. 00:18:11.783 --> 00:18:14.043 That's my thinking, is the commercial guys don't stand still, 00:18:14.163 --> 00:18:15.523 right? So, the Googles and the Apples. 00:18:15.743 --> 00:18:18.443 But they also, as part of that, tend to incentivize. 00:18:18.603 --> 00:18:19.143 Yeah, that's true. 00:18:19.243 --> 00:18:21.623 And I feel like we're getting kind of a Moore's Law set up here with AIs too, 00:18:21.683 --> 00:18:25.443 right? Like, with the AI software and the AI models, we are accelerating so 00:18:25.443 --> 00:18:27.443 fast the way we did with CPUs back in the day. 00:18:27.443 --> 00:18:27.883 So true. 00:18:28.063 --> 00:18:31.403 Yeah, I don't think it's going to be long before we're running extremely capable 00:18:31.403 --> 00:18:34.023 models. And maybe the models will just get smaller and we'll just choose different 00:18:34.023 --> 00:18:35.603 models for different tasks. Can't wait. 00:18:36.183 --> 00:18:40.163 I like it. I like it. Thank you, PJ. That's an interesting point. 00:18:40.163 --> 00:18:41.763 And I hope you're right. And I think they are getting faster. 00:18:42.063 --> 00:18:43.563 Tell us your name and tell us what you think. 00:18:43.703 --> 00:18:50.323 Yeah, my name is Sam. So I, up until very recently, taught at-risk youth IT 00:18:50.323 --> 00:18:54.703 skills and things like that to help them get into the IT field locally where I live. 00:18:54.703 --> 00:18:57.683 and um we had a very big conversation as 00:18:57.683 --> 00:19:00.443 a non-profit about how to approach ai i bet and how to 00:19:00.443 --> 00:19:03.763 like actually teach it effectively and um 00:19:03.763 --> 00:19:07.063 i don't know if this is 2pg 13 for the podcast but um the 00:19:07.063 --> 00:19:11.723 the analogy that one of our staff members used was kind of like the sex ed talk 00:19:11.723 --> 00:19:15.503 of like you're not going to stop people from using it you might as well teach 00:19:15.503 --> 00:19:20.243 them how to use it responsibly yeah yeah right so um i was very big on local 00:19:20.243 --> 00:19:24.763 models about um using them as a tool to like help yourself get an advantage, 00:19:24.963 --> 00:19:29.523 but not like putting your personal information out there for it to be put up later. 00:19:29.743 --> 00:19:33.503 Like I'm thinking of the GitHub co-pilot thing that happened and it's only a 00:19:33.503 --> 00:19:35.443 matter, I mean, you know, Gemini had a leak like that. 00:19:35.603 --> 00:19:38.863 Like there's, there's plenty of examples of that happening. 00:19:39.103 --> 00:19:43.943 Sorry, I'm not too close, but yeah. So I think I liked your take on that too, Chris. 00:19:44.123 --> 00:19:51.223 So the like how, like Greg cage kind of like demonstrating, how can you use this responsibly? 00:19:52.203 --> 00:19:55.383 And I also think too, yeah, it might be, 00:19:56.165 --> 00:20:00.745 because they have the resources to actually use these tools and the scale and 00:20:00.745 --> 00:20:03.685 also, you know, thinking about the Linux kernel being like millions of lines of code. 00:20:04.245 --> 00:20:05.065 It's got to be a job. 00:20:05.345 --> 00:20:07.785 It's a lot different than smaller projects. Not to, you know, 00:20:07.905 --> 00:20:09.165 it's just scale. It's huge. 00:20:09.445 --> 00:20:11.685 Yeah, and that sometimes necessitates tools like this. 00:20:11.785 --> 00:20:12.605 Yeah, for sure. 00:20:12.745 --> 00:20:16.805 Well, I think we've seen kind of Greg has his unconventional attitude perhaps, right? 00:20:16.865 --> 00:20:19.725 Like we've seen some of his great blog posts about like how the kernel treats 00:20:19.725 --> 00:20:23.365 security, which is very much not the way that a lot of other projects sort of have a security model. 00:20:23.365 --> 00:20:26.625 so it makes sense to me that if you have that sort of outcome focused 00:20:26.625 --> 00:20:31.365 view that they're not just like whole hogging AI slop into the kernel at least 00:20:31.365 --> 00:20:34.325 I don't think anyone here thinks that right and so they're showing this version 00:20:34.325 --> 00:20:38.185 of like well we can keep our standards the code is the code and if the process 00:20:38.185 --> 00:20:41.405 is there and the people are signing off and they're responsible for it and Linus 00:20:41.405 --> 00:20:44.125 isn't mad at this commit and yelling at you then okay it's probably going to work. 00:20:44.425 --> 00:20:47.365 Yeah the fact that something's being audited by Linus Torvalds is enough for 00:20:47.365 --> 00:20:49.065 me to be like you know that's probably going to be okay. 00:20:49.265 --> 00:20:49.865 Yeah there's layers there. 00:20:50.405 --> 00:20:52.425 He's not a guy to be shy of when things are bad. 00:20:52.625 --> 00:20:56.105 I wonder if we'll be discussing this next LinuxFest, right? Because it seems 00:20:56.105 --> 00:20:59.085 like this is a seasonal thing that we're working through, and this phase we're 00:20:59.085 --> 00:21:01.085 at right now is we're sort of digesting this stage of it. 00:21:01.325 --> 00:21:05.325 And with the development of local and folks like Greg, maybe by a year from 00:21:05.325 --> 00:21:09.185 now, we'll have sort of settled on kind of a common community agreement on this. 00:21:09.585 --> 00:21:12.625 Thank you. That's good. Did you want to join us? Yeah, come on up. 00:21:13.765 --> 00:21:14.905